Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 3 Apr - 13:37

@vaderito wrote:

Hi all,

This is a thread to discuss Kylo's lineage - from Shmi and Naberries (even Plagueis but NOT Snoke is Plagueis Theory please!) to Anakin and Padme to Leia's adoptive family to Han and Leia. Yes, you can throw uncle Luke and his adoptive family into the mix too.

But the biggest deal is that Kylo is a child of two epic SW romances: Anidala and Hanleia. And he may well get his own epic romance with Rey.





Therefore, this is a thread to discuss both romances and how they relate to Reylo (Reverse Anidala, for example), as well as Kylo's family and how they relate to him ("too much Vader in him", "weak and foolish like his father"). Other topics:

Amazing Skywalker helmet hair
Skywalker penchant for dramatic unmasking
Skywalker penchant for gazing at celestial objects
Whiny Skywalker males
Solo smirk

Laughing Laughing Laughing
Don't forget: DON'T BE AFRAID, I FEEL IT TOO, I WILL BE NOT SEDUCED, WE'LL SEE, YOU NEED A TEACHER! sorry for using caps lock but they are clearly foreshadowing something big H-beating
Edit: "You have compassion for her" bye Stretcher
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 3 Apr - 14:36

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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by MeadowofAshes on Sun 3 Apr - 14:39

I'm on board with reverse Anidala. I doubt the line "This will begin to make things right" was just a not-so-subtle dig at the prequels. I really think they're also foreshading reverse Anidala making the prequels romance right.

That being said, I like that Rey and Kylo/Ben begin with a solid Han/Leia foundation. Han and Leia are a great romance. Sure, they give each other crap and argue a lot and they don't start out liking each other, but the most important part of their relationship to me is they begin as equals. Further, they are equals who challenge one another and grow together.

Han: Some girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her.

This is right after she's blasted a hole into the wall and ordered everyone to jump into a garbage chute while insulting them, mind you. Leia doesn't take crap from anyone, let alone a couple of presumptuous men there to rescue her, and even if it fruatrates him Han digs that.

They say men grow up to marry their mother. Very Happy But seriously, this is also the dynamic I appreciate with Kylo and Rey. Sure, he has that trademark Skywalker fascination with her, but I see more Solo there. He's intrigued by her, but his real infatuation comes when she challenges him, from the time she calls his lightsaber to her to her handing him his butt on a platter. That boy has got it bad. And how does he respond to her calling his legacy lightsaber? By meeting her as an equal. By offering to teach her, because she DOES need a teacher and he sees her as a worthy opponent and formidable ally.
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 3 Apr - 14:58

@vaderito wrote:There's too much Vader in him:





He was weak and foolish like his father:





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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by MeadowofAshes on Sun 3 Apr - 15:35

@vaderito wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:I'm on board with reverse Anidala. I doubt the line "This will begin to make things right" was just a not-so-subtle dig at the prequels. I really think they're also foreshading reverse Anidala making the prequels romance right.

Totally. The dig is ever so unsubtle which is why we got lots of reversed moments from TP. As someone said, Kylo's Anakin done right.

That being said, I like that Rey and Kylo/Ben begin with a solid Han/Leia foundation. Han and Leia are a great romance. Sure, they give each other crap and argue a lot and they don't start out liking each other, but the most important part of their relationship to me is they begin as equals. Further, they are equals who challenge one another and grow together.

Agreed. Also, Rey is strong like Leia and doesn't take crap from Kylo, while Kylo is very much like Anakin which is, IMO, great combo. Rey calls Kylo out on his bullsith. "You are a monstah" is exactly what Kylo needed to hear after killing Han and, while Anakin could be somewhat excused for slaughtering all Tuskens including children with red mist due to his mother's death, "to be angry is to be human" was 100% wrong response that Padme game him. Especially since he confessed in order to get some scolding or even punishment.

Han: Some girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her.

Kylo's feelings about Rey in a nutshell. He definitely began to love her here



This is right after she's blasted a hole into the wall and ordered everyone to jump into a garbage chute while insulting them, mind you. Leia doesn't take crap from anyone, let alone a couple of presumptuous men there to rescue her, and even if it fruatrates him Han digs that.

And that was right after Rey called legacy LS which is humiliating/insulting to Kylo when you think about it, especially coming after she read his deepest fear. And yet...weak and foolish like his father, Kylo fell in love.  Twisted Evil

They say men grow up to marry their mother. Very Happy But seriously, this is also the dynamic I appreciate with Kylo and Rey. Sure, he has that trademark Skywalker fascination with her, but I see more Solo there. He's intrigued by her, but his real infatuation comes when she challenges him, from the time she calls his lightsaber to her to her handing him his butt on a platter. That boy has got it bad. And how does he respond to her calling his legacy lightsaber? By meeting her as an equal. By offering to teach her, because she DOES need a teacher and he sees her as a worthy opponent and formidable ally.

truth is, Anakin and Han aren;t that different when it comes to falling in love and poor Kylo can't escape either genes. Laughing

This is why I dislike both Anakin and Padme as characters. There are too many red flags to count but Padme for some reason I cannot fathom falls for the guy. And she enables him with lines like that, that's the worst part. He's a raging narcissist and egomaniac and she throws him a pity party for slaughtering a village of people including women and children. (Then completely gives up on life when she has two new children to care for - get outta here). This is a point of contention betwen my mother and I; she sees Padme as a victim and feels sorry for her. I see Padme as a willfully blind enabler and she irritates the hell out of me. I'm glad Rey is more like Leia.

And speaking of my mother, I was explaining all the signs of Reylo after we watched TFA the other day. Anyway, she was asking about Ben Solo, what made him turn, etc. And conversation came around to how Rey and Kylo/Ben are two sides of the same coin, she brings out compassion in him, he was "weak and foolish like his father", his family really takes to Rey and my interpretation is she probably reminds them a lot of Ben when he was a boy. So from this information we can glean that Ben Solo was a compassionate individual. Indeed, he is "weak and foolish" with his compassion and I think there's a component of Rey reminding him of the boy/young man he has tried to destroy.
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by MeadowofAshes on Sun 3 Apr - 16:07

Oh here's another Solo parallel. Han tells Finn women always find out the truth. Always. Sounds like something he learned from experience and probably a grain of wisdom imparted to his son. Now I contend there are already things to like about Kylo or that at least make him endearing - his mother's dry humor, his father's smirk (in fact, he seems his most likeable when he lets his family traits come through), but even if these don't endear one even reluctantly to Kylo, the one thing he really does have going for him is integrity. Snoke is the only character he lies, very poorly, to. He is honest with Rey. An interrogator would never tell a prisoner they have no idea where their friends are - they would say they've captured their friends and they've already given some information so the prisoner may as well confess. Or that they have their friends and if the prisoner doesn't talk their friends will get hurt. With Rey, Kylo has integrity, therefore we can assume Ben Solo has integrity. Indeed, as Pablo said, his bloodline is what makes Kylo interesting. When you start to notice all the traits that can probably be attributed to Ben Solo and therefore Ben's family, Kylo does become highly interesting.
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by MeadowofAshes on Sun 3 Apr - 18:37

@vaderito It's possible she didn't believe him, but she puts on some serious blinders considering the other red flags he brings to the table. His manipulative line about the "kiss she never should have given him". He instigated the kiss and he's trying to guilt trip her into a relationship. I dunno, he is just so off-putting to me it's hard to imagine wearing the cute kid Anakin goggles for that long. I will say this, Anidala is a fantastic cautionary tale for my kids in choosing suitors!

And really nice catches with mirroring between movies! I'm great within the same movie, but I don't even think of scenes from the others.
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by panki on Sun 3 Apr - 19:29

There is another weird angle I thought of.....Anakin was deeply attached to his mother Shmi but he gets separated from her and subsequently she is brutally murdered...He falls for Padme who is older than him, and Like Shmi, is caring and had dark hair.





Then we have Leia, who was devoted to her stepfather Bail Organa. Bail Organa was a tall and charming man who held to create the Rebel group, risking his life to oppose the Imperials. He dies when Vader blows up Alderaan in front of Leia's eyes (again a brutal death). Leia falls for the first tall, charismatic and rebellious guy to cross her path i.e. Han Solo.





Now we have Kylo Ren. I think his attachment is to Leia. (he doesn't even allow Snoke to complete the sentence where he mentions Leia). There is a rumor that Leia is going to be gravely injured in Episode 8.....Leia is strong willed, dark haired and force sensitive....now I wonder who else matches that description? What a Face


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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by Sforza on Sun 3 Apr - 21:55


Hearts are already here. <3
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 3 Apr - 22:04



The Solo/Skywalker seduction has started
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by Saracene on Mon 4 Apr - 10:24

Epic romance certainly runs strong in Kylo's family Very Happy

Prior to re-watching ESB recently, I've only seen it once about 18 years ago, so I got a whole new appreciation for Han and Leia's romance. They were a damn hot couple.

There are certainly interesting callbacks between Rey/Kylo and Padme/Anakin, but I think that what both Rey/Kylo and Han/Leia have that Padme/Anakin doesn't is a sense of equality. Han and Leia had a significant age gap, but she was very much a grown woman (not a girl) and he was a grown man (not a boy). Whereas Rey and Kylo, despite their age gap, are equal in an opposite way - they're both stunted and childlike. Padme/Anakin never made any sense to me because it paired what's supposed to be a sophisticated, mature woman who's rubbed shoulders with politicians and royalty with some immature whiny twerp.
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by AppleCrumble122 on Mon 4 Apr - 10:45

Anyone seen this little interesting meta? It discusses both the Anakin/Padme and the Han/Leia romance and how it parallels with Reylo.

https://noodlekuki.tumblr.com/post/142193876569/a-reylo-prediction-sw-parallels
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 5 Apr - 7:57

Interesting thread. I have been thinking about this subject a lot of lately.

The starting point was Han s statement: There is too much Vader in him.
And somehow, having in mind Han s tendency to simplify the things (from the day one litteraly (OT) I came to conclusion that this statement is completely wrong.
It can be interpreted as truthful only on the surface level (the dark side). Deep down Kylo is more Han than everybody else (i.e. Skywalkers).

I also tend to interpret killing off Han as a vain attempt to kill off Han in himself. We saw later on that Kylo did not succed being overpowered by Rey in a typical Solo s "weakness".

I am still curious about Leia and Kylo...despite obvious mother - son relation, I think there s more to it. Hopefully Bloodline book would give us some more info on the subject.
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by Irina de France on Tue 4 Oct - 15:04

Not sure if this would be the appropriate thread to post them, but I fell across a couple of really interesting videos explaining why the Hanleia romance worked so well while Anidala didn't. It's worth the watch, really Wink







This Youtuber made a couple of other videos on Star Wars: I haven't checked them out yet, but I will. I like her videos in general, they're really interesting Wink
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by snufkin on Tue 4 Oct - 19:40

@Irina de France wrote:Not sure if this would be the appropriate thread to post them, but I fell across a couple of really interesting videos explaining why the Hanleia romance worked so well while Anidala didn't. It's worth the watch, really ;)
@Irina de France

All in the writing. Han & Leia were originally written by Leigh Brackett, who among other things wrote for Howard Hawks. Their dynamic was meant to be like the screwball comedies from the Golden Age of Hollywood. When Lawrence Kasdan took over the screenplay after her death, he kept it in that spirit



Han and Leia in ESB seem an awful lot like another classic in the genre, It Happened One Night





As for the other, it was written by George Lucas - who as Roger Ebert said can write love scenes with the depth and passion of a greeting card.
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Re: Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

Post by Sylvia Snow on Tue 4 Oct - 21:34

@vaderito wrote:@panki Great ideas, especially Leia-Bail-Han. As for Padme and Anakin, I've been hearing about mother-son angle but that kind of doesn't work because Anakin fell in love with Padme while he was still with his mother. Remember:


@vaderito

A part of me really want to see Kylo's version of "Are you an angel" with Rey, in my mind he would definitely choose the worse timing to flirt or trying to impress her
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