JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Page 15 of 17 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16, 17  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Sat 11 Mar - 3:14

The movie would also be bogged down with Skywalkers. Luke, Leia, Kylo and Rey? Too many.
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2458
Likes : 10205
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by AppleCrumble122 on Sat 11 Mar - 3:27

@Helix wrote:The movie would also be bogged down with Skywalkers. Luke, Leia, Kylo and Rey? Too many.
@Helix

Not to mention rehashing the whole Jaina Solo/Ben Skywalker vs Jacen Solo story, without any of the emotional weight behind the conflict.
avatar
AppleCrumble122
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1457
Likes : 8333
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 11 Mar - 3:32

I think people read far too much into the "Skywalker saga" thing. It was always called that, and it's basically a merchandising term to separate the 'main saga' from the cartoons, comics, games, and EU.
avatar
Piper Maru
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 862
Likes : 6318
Date d'inscription : 2017-01-15
Age : 26
Localisation : Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Acritiqua on Sat 11 Mar - 3:39

My negative interpretation is assuming the creators to be pretty "stupid" as I see it. I mean the way I would interpret it that more aligns with me (that I naturally see as being what more "reasonable people" would do) is that the character of Kylo Ren is sufficient as a Skywalker and his character will be treated with the utmost respect even as Rey bashes his head in Twisted Evil and that (hopefully) he'll be brought back to the light. As such it would be a bit annoying that so many people demand Rey Skywalker of my other great character who is great but also not a Skywalker. And I suppose it would bug me a bit that people don't acknowledge that Kylo Ren is just fine as being our Skywalker. Anakin/Vader wasn't only sweetness and light himself. In the trilogy I will again touch on the deep meaning of compassion and redemption by not having Kylo Ren only be Rey's punching bag. And Rey will claim her own amazing destiny in the Force which will be new and unique (just like she is) and in every way as awesome as Anakin's own Force destiny. And so our beloved pair will unite in the light and it will be a magical Disney ending and I'll rejoice in shiny sparkles.

Also totally agree that I would feel suffocated by Skywalkers if Rey was one as well. And totally agree that I don't want Jacen and Jaina *again* or the ESB reveal *again*.
avatar
Acritiqua
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 269
Likes : 844
Date d'inscription : 2017-03-04

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by IoJovi on Sat 11 Mar - 3:44

@Piper Maru wrote:I think people read far too much into the "Skywalker saga" thing. It was always called that, and it's basically a merchandising term to separate the 'main saga' from the cartoons, comics, games, and EU.
@Piper Maru

Well, it's not wrong that Star Wars is and always will be about the Skywalkers.  What's lost on some folks though is that Reylo absolutely fulfills this requirement.

Basically it will be the "I am your father moment" of the trilogy, only this time, it won't involve anyone's father.

@Acritiqua I know you're doubtful we'll be getting the story we'd all love to see here, but have you ever asked yourself why you ship it?  The answer is because you're meant to.  There's a reason certain camera angles, lingering looks and other forms of subtle sexual subtext were used between these characters, and it's not accidental.
avatar
IoJovi
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6210
Likes : 34811
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26
Age : 101
Localisation : Atlanta, GA

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Mana on Sat 11 Mar - 4:29

There was nothing in the movie to suggest Rey Skywalker except people's wishful thinking. They want her to be one so therefore she is. All the writers and creators are liars and everyone involved in the making of this film are decieving/misleading us so that this December when Luke says to Rey 'I am your father' everyone in the cinema will be shocked to their core.
avatar
Mana
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1334
Likes : 11382
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26
Age : 25
Localisation : Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by snufkin on Sat 11 Mar - 6:04

I totally get the anxiety that Disney will go the safe/conservative route. The franchise is a cornerstone of global pop culture that people love for specific reasons *and* we're talking about a corporation where the bottom line rules all. They want to ensure a succesful roll out and use of the brand, so there's not going to be anything to alienate fans.

That said, I went in to TFA with only a few spoilers and zero expectations. My interest in the OT was left behind in childhood so it was like seeing that universe and characters for the first time. All I knew about Rey is that she was waiting for her family to return and there wasn't anything that happened which made me ever think that she was a relative to any of the OT characters. What I very much did notice was Kylo's interest in her and that made me wonder if the plan was to have a straight forward hero-villain relationship. Or if it'd be something more complex. And by complex, I don't mean the joke you hear about how he stares at her after taking off the mask as "you'd only see a man looking at his cousin that way on Game of Thrones."

Speaking of that scene, I watch a lot of movies in general (the OT was part of a larger and ongoing obsession in my family with movies and movie history) and it reminded me of two specific scenes with a back and forth shift of power between the male and female leads. Which eventually leads to them getting involved:

1. Stephen Soderbergh's Out of Sight: When escaped bank robber Matt Foley (George Clooney) kidnaps federal agent Karen Sisco (JLo) during his escape from prison and they're locked together in a car trunk. There's even a line in this movie that's close to Rey and Kylo, where Matt's accomplice notices his interest and asks him "why are you chasing after a woman who keeps shooting at you?"




2. Gillian Armstrong's My Brilliant Career:  When childhood friends Sybilla Melvyl (Judy Davis) and Harry Beechum (Sam Neill) see each other as adults for the first time. He doesn't recognize her and hits on her. The detail I noticed with Rey and Kylo is that he does the same thing that Sam Neill does in this scene. His mouth is slightly parted and you see him move his tongue across the lower part of his mouth while he's looking at her. It's not overtly creepy enough to be literally licking his chops. But conscious or not, it's a sign of desire/interest.

This moment with the slight tongue movement



Reminds me of what Sam Neill does with his tongue when he's looking right at Judy Davis

Clip behind spoiler cut because it's on autoplay:

[/url]

Other reasons to hope that the filmmakers don't go the safe route and make it just that Rey is Luke's long lost kid is that the only other example I can think of a story where it was female cousin versus male cousin over a legacy would be Isabelle Allende's classic novel, The House of the Spirits/La Casa de los Espiritus. Which isn't the vibe I got at all from TFA. Also in general these arguments, even when somebody is making it from a feminist position, basically say that Leia doesn't matter and isn't the "true" bearer of the legacy. It's her DNA's that's the reason why the as yet only legacy kid so powerful. He's that way because of Leia, even though Luke is supposedly the Golden Child and hero because he was the hero of the OT. That part seemed unfair to Leia getting her due in the past and it seems even more unfair with the loss of Carrie Fisher.


Last edited by snufkin on Sat 11 Mar - 7:51; edited 2 times in total
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5928
Likes : 25653
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 11 Mar - 6:26

I think 'Bloodline' is practically screaming that the only Skywalker is Kylo - Leia and Han have no other kids, no mention of Luke having children.

People want Reywalker because they see Kylo as a 'corrupt' Skywalker (they've forgotten about his grandad) and they want a pure, saccharine Skywalker. Which is a massive disservice to Rey's character because she's anything but.
avatar
motherofpearl1
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2052
Likes : 8353
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-09

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Sat 11 Mar - 17:48

@snufkin wrote:I totally get the anxiety that Disney will go the safe/conservative route. The franchise is a cornerstone of global pop culture that people love for specific reasons *and* we're talking about a corporation where the bottom line rules all. They want to ensure a succesful roll out and use of the brand, so there's not going to be anything to alienate fans.

That said, I went in to TFA with only a few spoilers and zero expectations. My interest in the OT was left behind in childhood so it was like seeing that universe and characters for the first time. All I knew about Rey is that she was waiting for her family to return and there wasn't anything that happened which made me ever think that she was a relative to any of the OT characters. What I very much did notice was Kylo's interest in her and that made me wonder if the plan was to have a straight forward hero-villain relationship. Or if it'd be something more complex. And by complex, I don't mean the joke you hear about how he stares at her after taking off the mask as "you'd only see a man looking at his cousin that way on Game of Thrones."

Speaking of that scene, I watch a lot of movies in general (the OT was part of a larger and ongoing obsession in my family with movies and movie history) and it reminded me of two specific scenes with a back and forth shift of power between the male and female leads. Which eventually leads to them getting involved:

1. Stephen Soderbergh's Out of Sight: When escaped bank robber Matt Foley (George Clooney) kidnaps federal agent Karen Sisco (JLo) during his escape from prison and they're locked together in a car trunk. There's even a line in this movie that's close to Rey and Kylo, where Matt's accomplice notices his interest and asks him "why are you chasing after a woman who keeps shooting at you?"




2. Gillian Armstrong's My Brilliant Career:  When childhood friends Sybilla Melvyl (Judy Davis) and Harry Beechum (Sam Neill) see each other as adults for the first time. He doesn't recognize her and hits on her. The detail I noticed with Rey and Kylo is that he does the same thing that Sam Neill does in this scene. His mouth is slightly parted and you see him move his tongue across the lower part of his mouth while he's looking at her. It's not overtly creepy enough to be literally licking his chops. But conscious or not, it's a sign of desire/interest.

This moment with the slight tongue movement



Reminds me of what Sam Neill does with his tongue when he's looking right at Judy Davis

Clip behind spoiler cut because it's on autoplay:

[/url]

Other reasons to hope that the filmmakers don't go the safe route and make it just that Rey is Luke's long lost kid is that the only other example I can think of a story where it was female cousin versus male cousin over a legacy would be Isabelle Allende's classic novel, The House of the Spirits/La Casa de los Espiritus. Which isn't the vibe I got at all from TFA. Also in general these arguments, even when somebody is making it from a feminist position, basically say that Leia doesn't matter and isn't the "true" bearer of the legacy. It's her DNA's that's the reason why the as yet only legacy kid so powerful. He's that way because of Leia, even though Luke is supposedly the Golden Child and hero because he was the hero of the OT. That part seemed unfair to Leia getting her due in the past and it seems even more unfair with the loss of Carrie Fisher.
@snufkin

There's also the question of Rey being 'Skywalker/ any legacy that would have her related to a big male character' of Rey just being an extension of a man's story and how feminist that is. I feel like making your first female lead stand on her own should be a big deal for Disney.

I feel like that's huge with Reywalker since these fans don't care about Rey unless she's an extension of Luke.
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2458
Likes : 10205
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by snufkin on Sat 11 Mar - 18:22

@Helix, like Carrie Fisher said, even in space there's a double standard for women.



What was BS about how Leia's powers were only shown was in aid/support of Luke. Either rescuing his sorry a** from Cloud City when he sent out a distress signal or in being motivation in the fight against Vader. Same mentality seems to be there with seeing Rey as an absolute proxy for Luke, down to being his offspring, she's just there to repeat or continue his story instead of having her own on her own terms.

Man I forgot another one of my film nerd outs, the moment on the cliff during the Snow Fight being the exact same type of shot as the Coup de foudre moment between Gregory Peck and Ingrid Bergman in Spellbound



The filmmaker and writer Aaron Stewart-Ahn wrote about it in an essay about GdT's Crimson Peak, but it sure seems applicable to how this relationship is developed in TFA's finale and going forward into the ST


Aaron Stewart-Ahn wrote:Ingrid Bergman and Gregory Peck collided in a supernatural, primordial, irrational moment, an act born from their dissolving psyches, and it’s summed up in one exchange of looks, one of those mythical, transcendent depictions of love as devastating as it is liberating, all heightened strings and so powerful as to change the very nature of light in the room. This love is the engine of Spellbound’s story, as two people draw out their anima from one another with insane devotion to their dark sides, to the brink of violence and affection.
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5928
Likes : 25653
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by WhatGirl on Fri 28 Jul - 15:06

Lol can't wait for December you guys.



Thank you @Mrs Ben Solo for finding this tweet. Smile
avatar
WhatGirl
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1316
Likes : 12347
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by IoJovi on Fri 28 Jul - 15:08

@WhatGirl wrote:Lol can't wait for December you guys.



Thank you @Mrs Ben Solo for finding this tweet. Smile
@WhatGirl

If ANYONE here is having Reywalker doubts, I have a million more things I can share to get you off that bandwagon permanently.

And yes, thanks @Mrs Ben Solo for sharing this one!
avatar
IoJovi
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6210
Likes : 34811
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26
Age : 101
Localisation : Atlanta, GA

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 28 Jul - 15:30

So many people against Reylo....when if it becomes canon, it'll be how Rey truly becomes a 'Skywalker'.
And a Solo. Very Happy
avatar
motherofpearl1
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2052
Likes : 8353
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-09

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by IoJovi on Fri 28 Jul - 15:44

@motherofpearl1 wrote:So many people against Reylo....when if it becomes canon, it'll be how Rey truly becomes a 'Skywalker'.
And a Solo. Very Happy
@motherofpearl1

That's exactly it.  You can have Reywalker, or you can have Reylo.  You can't have both (for obvious reasons), but you also can't have neither.  It's been repeated by the story team that this saga continues to revolve around the Skywalkers, and if Rey isn't one by blood, she still has to fit into the family somehow.  That doesn't just include fixing the family problems from an outside perspective and moving on.  That would essentially make turn our protagonist into the role of a family therapist, and really how gripping is that?   There has to be more to it that goes beyond just "doing the right thing."  It has to be something the audience would relate to in, both from Rey's perspective as well as Ben's.  

That's why Reygate essentially sealed the deal for Reylo for me, and I never looked back.
avatar
IoJovi
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6210
Likes : 34811
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26
Age : 101
Localisation : Atlanta, GA

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Fri 28 Jul - 15:52

The stages of Reddit Denial are beginning.

avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2458
Likes : 10205
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by IoJovi on Fri 28 Jul - 15:54

@Helix wrote:The stages of Reddit Denial are beginning.

@Helix

Lord.  Reywalker has been dead for over a year.  Pablo didn't need to debunk anything!!!

I can understand if you are GA, don't follow much outside of what you've seen in the movie, and didn't catch onto Reylo why one might think she's Luke.  But those who follow along like we do, even if they're not a part of our group?  

That's a reach if I've ever seen one.
avatar
IoJovi
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6210
Likes : 34811
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26
Age : 101
Localisation : Atlanta, GA

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Fri 28 Jul - 15:57

@IoJovi wrote:
@Helix wrote:The stages of Reddit Denial are beginning.

@Helix

Lord. Reywalker has been dead for over a year. Pablo didn't need to debunk anything!!!
@IoJovi

Would you believe the thread is filled with the same boring Reywalker arguments like 'the saber called to her!!'? We know Reywalkers cling to debunked 'evidence' like it's water in a desert.
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2458
Likes : 10205
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by IoJovi on Fri 28 Jul - 16:03

@Helix wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Helix wrote:The stages of Reddit Denial are beginning.

@Helix

Lord.  Reywalker has been dead for over a year.  Pablo didn't need to debunk anything!!!
@IoJovi

Would you believe the thread is filled with the same boring Reywalker arguments like 'the saber called to her!!'?  We know Reywalkers cling to debunked 'evidence' like it's water in a desert.
@Helix

I can see why some, again who aren't paying attention, might extrapolate Reywalker out of that line.  First the saber was Anakin's, then it was Luke's, and now it calls to you.  It's playing up the family line.  It doesn't prove anything, but in their defense, I can see why they'd think that.  Still, it's the ONLY thing in the movie that points that way.

Amazingly, right after that, Maz says whoever you're waiting on your Jakku (her family) they're never coming back, and goes onto say Rey's belonging is ahead of her.  That right there makes it crystal clear who her family isn't.  If Pablo ever debunked Reywalker, it'd go back to a tweet sometime in 2016 where someone pointed that out, and he very sarcastically said, "Oh yes, use the movie as a basis of speculation.  Whatever!!!!"

I'm not sure why the Reywalkers are melting down over this tweet, but they flat out ignored that one...
avatar
IoJovi
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6210
Likes : 34811
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26
Age : 101
Localisation : Atlanta, GA

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by WhatGirl on Fri 28 Jul - 16:06

@Helix wrote:The stages of Reddit Denial are beginning.

@Helix

I shared the tweet on another board and am seeing posts like that, too. Rolling Eyes

Oh, and "Pablo wouldn't violate his NDA." Except, he debunked Jyn as Rey's mother well before RO came out. It's not a spoiler to eliminate a scenario that can't physically happen.

If Luke has been truly solitary and never did anything to pass on his genes (either naturally or artificially) then Rey Skywalker is literally impossible and there is nothing in TFA to indicate otherwise.
avatar
WhatGirl
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1316
Likes : 12347
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Fri 28 Jul - 16:07

@IoJovi wrote:
@Helix wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Helix wrote:The stages of Reddit Denial are beginning.

@Helix

Lord.  Reywalker has been dead for over a year.  Pablo didn't need to debunk anything!!!
@IoJovi

Would you believe the thread is filled with the same boring Reywalker arguments like 'the saber called to her!!'?  We know Reywalkers cling to debunked 'evidence' like it's water in a desert.
@Helix

I can see why some, again who aren't paying attention, might extrapolate Reywalker out of that line.  First the saber was Anakin's, then it was Luke's, and now it calls to you.  It's playing up the family line.  It doesn't prove anything, but in their defense, I can see why they'd think that.  Still, it's the ONLY thing in the movie that points that way.

Amazingly, right after that, Maz says whoever you're waiting on your Jakku (her family) they're never coming back, and goes onto say Rey's belonging is ahead of her.  That right there makes it crystal clear who her family isn't.  If Pablo ever debunked Reywalker, it'd go back to a tweet sometime in 2016 where someone pointed that out, and he very sarcastically said, "Oh yes, use the movie as a basis of speculation.  Whatever!!!!"

I'm not sure why the Reywalkers are melting down over this tweet, but they flat out ignored that one...
@IoJovi

That's hardcore Reywalkers in a nutshell. They ignore everything that truly kills it and hold onto the scraps.
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2458
Likes : 10205
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by WhatGirl on Fri 28 Jul - 16:10

@Helix wrote:Would you believe the thread is filled with the same boring Reywalker arguments like 'the saber called to her!!'?  We know Reywalkers cling to debunked 'evidence' like it's water in a desert.
@Helix

If Pablo says there is nothing to suggest Rey Skywalker in TFA then that means the lightsaber called to her for a different reason than being related. I am having fun pointing that out elsewhere and I know I'll be referencing this tweet many times in the future, hah.


Last edited by WhatGirl on Fri 28 Jul - 16:11; edited 1 time in total
avatar
WhatGirl
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1316
Likes : 12347
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Fri 28 Jul - 16:11

They should perhaps consider preparing for a Disappointment December.
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2458
Likes : 10205
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Fri 28 Jul - 16:13

@WhatGirl wrote:
@Helix wrote:Would you believe the thread is filled with the same boring Reywalker arguments like 'the saber called to her!!'?  We know Reywalkers cling to debunked 'evidence' like it's water in a desert.
@Helix

If Pablo says there is nothing to suggest Rey Skywalker in TFA then that means the lightsaber called to her for a different reason than being related. I am having fun pointing that out elsewhere and I know I'll be referencing this tweet many times in the future, hah.
@WhatGirl

Oh really? How do they bull their way out of that one?
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2458
Likes : 10205
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by WhatGirl on Fri 28 Jul - 16:14

@Helix wrote:
@WhatGirl wrote:
@Helix wrote:Would you believe the thread is filled with the same boring Reywalker arguments like 'the saber called to her!!'?  We know Reywalkers cling to debunked 'evidence' like it's water in a desert.
@Helix

If Pablo says there is nothing to suggest Rey Skywalker in TFA then that means the lightsaber called to her for a different reason than being related. I am having fun pointing that out elsewhere and I know I'll be referencing this tweet many times in the future, hah.
@WhatGirl

Oh really? How do they bull their way out of that one?
@Helix

So far no one has responded to me on that particular point, but I'll keep you updated. Razz
avatar
WhatGirl
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1316
Likes : 12347
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by SheLitAFire on Fri 28 Jul - 19:30

@motherofpearl1 wrote:So many people against Reylo....when if it becomes canon, it'll be how Rey truly becomes a 'Skywalker'.
And a Solo. Very Happy
@motherofpearl1

If that happens I've already made this as a response:



_________________
He's more myself than I am.
Whatever our souls are made of,
his and mine are the same.

-Emily Bronte, Wuthering Heights


DAMN IT FEELS GOOD TO BE A REYLO
avatar
SheLitAFire
Moderator

Messages : 619
Likes : 2160
Date d'inscription : 2016-09-15
Age : 31
Localisation : Ach-To

Back to top Go down

Page 15 of 17 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16, 17  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum