JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by MeadowofAshes on Sun 30 Jul - 1:40

I get the impression the collective "I don't understand shipping" in regards to Rey/Kylo is largely deflection by playing dumb because it's not just Reylation theories they've pooped on. Kylux and Stormpilot took hits pretty early on. Essentially, we've got...

Rey Solo: Daisy already handled that (with "obviously I wasn't).
Reywalker: Lulz to the no, rinse and repeat.
Kylux: It's work conflict.
Stormpilot: Wishful thinking.
Kylo's sexuality: Go with what the movie tells you.
Kylo's virginity: None of our business.
FinnRey: We played it as friends.
Reylo: Silence on the line... which has transformed into "I don't get shipping."

And it's a pretty easy go-to for Pablo. Shippers really did start fights on his feed early on, when he was completely silent about it. I got hounded by an Anti for pointing out the villainous crush in relation to why, lulz, Reywalker is obviously not a thing.

The thing is, even if it remains one-sided (I don't feel like it will, but just for argument's sake), Kylo is plainly infatuated with Rey, and it ain't just her power that does it for him. His redemption is tied to his feelings for her, and those feelings transforming from selfish, unhealthy obsession to selfless love. And that is not something any of them are at liberty to talk about because that is a primary part of the story arc. As soon as you put Kylo saying he will not be seduced by the light together with his villainous crush, you realize Snoke's grand plan is utterly screwed and exactly why.
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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by IoJovi on Sun 30 Jul - 1:49

Interesting enough, Matt and Pablo have had different styles of addressing that topic in the early days. Now it seems both have the same identical answer lately - I don't understand shipping. Like, what is there not to understand about it? It's pretty simple.

Something tells me they've both been coached.

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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Sun 30 Jul - 1:59

LF to Matt and Pablo:

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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by CienaRee on Sun 30 Jul - 5:59

@IoJovi wrote:Interesting enough, Matt and Pablo have had different styles of addressing that topic in the early days.  Now it seems both have the same identical answer lately - I don't understand shipping.  Like, what is there not to understand about it?  It's pretty simple.

Something tells me they've both been coached.
@IoJovi
Honestly Pablo's answer is such a BS(if he really does mean it).It's one thinh if he dislikes Reylo but the purpose of love stories is usually to make people invested and root for the characters to get together and be happy.Him saying he doesn't like shipping makes him come off as lacking imagination or really any knewdge of how storytelling works.

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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 2 Aug - 18:43

There really are a lot of people who don't understand shipping, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone who models transformers (sci-fi tech geek?) doesn't understand shipping. Shipping is romantic and a lot of people are not romantics (even though almost everyone has a romantic side to them). Shipping also seems to have some sort of feminine root. I don't know what I mean by "feminine." Watching/reading stuff and going gaga over all the relationships seems like kind of a girl thing? (I don't want to pass over the guys who are shippers though in saying that.)
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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by panki on Wed 2 Aug - 19:00

@Acritiqua wrote:There really are a lot of people who don't understand shipping, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone who models transformers (sci-fi tech geek?) doesn't understand shipping. Shipping is romantic and a lot of people are not romantics (even though almost everyone has a romantic side to them). Shipping also seems to have some sort of feminine root. I don't know what I mean by "feminine." Watching/reading stuff and going gaga over all the relationships seems like kind of a girl thing? (I don't want to pass over the guys who are shippers though in saying that.)
@Acritiqua

I work on model transformers among other kits and yet am into shipping as well Razz ....I dont think one can group all shippers under one umbrella and tech loving geeks under another...the groups do intersect. Also, there are rotten eggs in every group.... I remember how some so-called 'feminists' used to make fun of my 'nerd' interests because I was a tomboy and wasn't into Harlequin romances like they were and one even seized and broke a model I was working on back in college just for a laugh...of course she got punched in the face for her trouble and never tried it again...lol.

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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 2 Aug - 19:22

@panki wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:There really are a lot of people who don't understand shipping, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone who models transformers (sci-fi tech geek?) doesn't understand shipping. Shipping is romantic and a lot of people are not romantics (even though almost everyone has a romantic side to them). Shipping also seems to have some sort of feminine root. I don't know what I mean by "feminine." Watching/reading stuff and going gaga over all the relationships seems like kind of a girl thing? (I don't want to pass over the guys who are shippers though in saying that.)
@Acritiqua

I work on model transformers among other kits and yet am into shipping as well Razz ....I dont think one can group all shippers under one umbrella and tech loving geeks under another...the groups do intersect. Also, there are rotten eggs in every group.... I remember how some so-called 'feminists' used to make fun of my 'nerd' interests because I wasn't into Harlequin romances like they were and one even seized and broke a model I was working on back in college just for a laugh...of course she got punched in the face for her trouble and never tried it again...lol.
@panki Yeah I was trying to avoid grouping people into categories like that, but I think there are patterns here, even if I cannot find a good way to say it. That something may come from "the feminine" is different than it being "feminist" I'd point out as well. Shipping is not "feminist." Think "the sacred feminine" or something along those lines. The reason why it can't easily be defined is that there is no clear cut biological difference between female and male minds (no all women are X way and all men are Y way) and the traits society has associated with femininity and masculinity are culturally defined (so there is an echo chamber in place) . Not a single one of them can be clearly matched. For instance, being "nurturing" is often associated as "feminine," but is it really? But I still think there is a pattern beyond these false/far too simple categories.

Although I don't consider myself a very feminine female, the part of me that ships and goes gaga over fictional relationships seems to me to be the most girly part of me. And it is linked to romanticism, idealism, fascination with relationships and longing to see certain emotions come out between characters, fantasy... it is *emotional* and not logical. I can't believe there is nothing at all to this.

You could potentially say that in some personality theories NFs are the most romantic and STs the least in terms of spinning up imagination and feeling in one's mind regarding fictional characters such that they become "real" and one lives in the feelings between them (again, this wording is trying to get an idea across, not to be the most precise best way to say this as I can't find the best way to say it). This wouldn't be saying that all NFs are romantic and no STs are, by the way. But you can take this forum as an example, it is full of intuition and feeling.

And whether people were coached to say they don't understand shipping or not, I have met people who just don't understand it. Some people don't focus so much on relationships in fiction, not in any sort of romantic way, because they are just not so inclined.
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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Saracene on Wed 2 Aug - 20:26

I've read an interesting perspective (from a guy) on why men don't get the same thrill out of a fictional romance as women do. It naturally makes very broad generalisations, but I think there's some kernel of truth in it:

"To generalize for the purpose of an easy answer, let's think in stereotypically gendered terms. When it comes to love, men have an active role while women have a passive one.

What are the implications of this? It means that what a woman feels as the ups and downs, the mystery, the unknown, the excitement, etc., all things that define "blossoming" love, are things that happen to her. She is passive, she is the recipient. Her agency is contained in her response to these things.

But for a man, anything that makes "love" progress (or regress) pretty much directly stems from one of his actions. He does something or initiates and a woman responds/reciprocates. Because he does not have the gendered luxury of taking a backseat or passive role and watching things happen (if he does, nothing will; the woman will lose interest), he begins, by necessity, to view love as the cause and effect relationship that it more accurately is in reality (he does something, woman responds).

Seeing something like this takes a ton of the "magic" out of it. Compare it to seeing the sun rise every day. It becomes a lot less mystical, exciting, and dramatic when you know exactly why it happens and can simply see it for the cause and effect relationship that it truly is... you may even begin to take it for granted.

This is why romance eventually becomes well... unromantic for men. Romance is not a phenomenon, but instead a verb; it's a series of actions carried out by a man to earn a woman's affections... it's labor.
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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 2 Aug - 22:58

@Saracene that would make sense to me in that society is patriarchal (or the one I live in is) and so all of the messages we pick up ever since we are small children differ. The "feminine" is always more mysterious or whatever with hidden wonders/magic whereas the "masculine" is more practical and down-to-earth and more action-based. From a really early age, children may identify with one or the other. Even though I consider myself fairly "masculine," because I am female my little child brain could match up with the "feminine" as defined by society. I wish I knew if this were simply a false dichotomy. Society makes it difficult to see. One thing I do believe is that gender is more complex than a dichotomy.

Also, if you see me thinking in boxes with this, know that it's because I don't yet know how to transcend them. I visit topics like this because I'm confused and seeking resolution. I know that I can't resolve everything before I die, but I try as much as I can to understand.
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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Helix on Wed 2 Aug - 23:20

@panki wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:There really are a lot of people who don't understand shipping, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone who models transformers (sci-fi tech geek?) doesn't understand shipping. Shipping is romantic and a lot of people are not romantics (even though almost everyone has a romantic side to them). Shipping also seems to have some sort of feminine root. I don't know what I mean by "feminine." Watching/reading stuff and going gaga over all the relationships seems like kind of a girl thing? (I don't want to pass over the guys who are shippers though in saying that.)
@Acritiqua

I work on model transformers among other kits and yet am into shipping as well Razz ....I dont think one can group all shippers under one umbrella and tech loving geeks under another...the groups do intersect. Also, there are rotten eggs in every group.... I remember how some so-called 'feminists' used to make fun of my 'nerd' interests because I was a tomboy and wasn't into Harlequin romances like they were and one even seized and broke a model I was working on back in college just for a laugh...of course she got punched in the face for her trouble and never tried it again...lol.
@panki

I'm a guy and am fine with embracing feminine things and don't see it as a problem. Like my main 'fandoms' and interests are monster movies and horror, but I do like shipping, but I can't really say why. I just kinda like it? I do really digging in to fictional characters and their relationships ( not just romantic ) in-general, though.
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Re: JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 2 Aug - 23:54

Just so you all know, I'm a girl and I'm fine with embracing masculine things. I often relate to male characters over female ones and I've never only been into "girl things" etc.

If there is a divide here, it's in my language more than anything else.

@Helix wrote:I do really digging in to fictional characters and their relationships ( not just romantic ) in-general, though.
@Helix Also BTW this is also what I love. <3
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