How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

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How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Guest on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 7:42 pm

In the saga, so far we have seen 5 Skywalkers, 4 of which we know to be force sensitive (there was never anything shown about Shmi being force sensitive.) Two of the Skywalkers turned to the dark side, and two of them did not. Anakin, of course, was the first Skywalker to turn to the dark side, and his grandson, Ben Solo, also turned to the dark side. Anakin's children, Luke and Leia, didn't turn to the dark side. What then, is the difference between Anakin and Kylo, and Luke and Leia. How were Luke and Leia able to escape this fate, where Anakin and Ben were not? I think the key difference was in how they were raised. Luke and Leia were not raised with any fanfare, at least as far as the force was concerned. The people that raised each of them probably had some inkling as to their force potential, but it was mostly a secret. On the flip side, Anakin was widely known to potentially be this prophesized-about force user that was born from the force itself. Ben Solo was known to come from the powerful Skywalker family. I think that is the big difference. Because their force potential was known about, Anakin had Palpatine manipulating him as a child and Ben had Snoke manipulating him as a child. However, since Luke and Leia's force potentially wasn't really well known about, there was nobody to manipulate them from a young age. By the time their force potential was known about, they were at an age when they could better handle the temptation. If Anakin and Ben's force potential had been kept secret, I think they too could have escaped their fates.

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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by IoJovi on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 7:53 pm

Interesting question. Honestly, if young Anakin had stayed put in TPM and never gone with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, he never would have fallen to the Darkside. He also would not have become the powerhouse that he was, and would most likely have stayed a slave under Watto as well. I'm sure his abilities would have been present, but they would have been in the background, like maybe a heightened version of ESP if you will.

There is debate that Palpatine and/or Plageuis were actually responsible for his "virgin" birth, and that his existence was planned from day 1. Same goes with the death of Padme - I dno't believe she died of a broken heart as that's just way too cheesy. I think Palps took Padme's lifeforce and transferred it to Anakin to save his life. Palpatine himself said Plageuis learned the ability to control and create life itself which lends itself to both theories.

As for Ben? We don't know enough backstory, but had Snoke not been involved and had he not been manipulated, I highly doubt there would be a Kylo Ren, and the same goes for his Force abilities had he never had any training.
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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Guest on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 9:02 pm

Anakin was a good kid when he was with Shmi. The trouble seemed to start when the Jedi got their hands on him and Palpatine was lurking in the wings. The mention of the prophecy probably gave Anakin an inflated sense of importance over the years. The Jedi Council had a lot of failings and they totally mishandled the situation with Palpatine and Anakin. He made his own choices in the end, but the Jedi Council certainly didn't help themselves. Maybe if Qui-Gon hadn't been killed, he might have understood Anakin better than Obi-Wan. I don't know if it would have been enough to prevent his fall, but Qui-Gon seemed more compassionate and understanding than the other Jedi. I don't want to be unfair to Obi-Wan because I do love him, he wasn't totally oblivious to what was going on with Anakin and Padme, but he let a lot of things slide because of his affection for Anakin.

Luke appeared to have been brought up in a loving home with Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. His uncle was a hard taskmaster, but he did genuinely seem to care for Luke. He was a dreamer, which his uncle discouraged, but his aunt was more indulgent. Luke knew some vague things about his father but wasn't encouraged to follow in his footsteps. It seemed like Uncle Owen wanted to keep him on the farm as long as possible. He was a bit whiny, but not as bad as his father! Luke was about ten years older than his father when he began training to be a Jedi with Obi-Wan, so perhaps that made a big difference too, even if Yoda thought he was too old!

Leia was also brought up in a loving home with adopted parents who doted on her. I believe it was said that she was very close to Bail Organa. It seems she followed in his footsteps as an ambassador. She was certainly a very confident and brave young woman in ANH. I couldn't actually envisage Leia ever falling to the dark side, she always seemed too self-assured and certain of the cause she was fighting for. I see a lot of Padme in her too.

Ben Solo is rather an unknown quantity at this time. Adam Driver said young Ben felt abandoned by his parents to some extent and had Snoke whispering in his ear, maybe since he was in the cradle. Han and Leia loved him but it wasn't enough. Being extremely force sensitive and having the Skywalker legacy hanging over him, he probably needed someone outside the family to guide him... Unfortunately, he got Snoke! I don't feel it's fair to lay too much blame at Luke's door until we know more about what went down there. But like Anakin and Obi-Wan, the family attachment (by blood or bond - as Anakin said Obi-Wan was like a father to him) probably caused more problems and resentment from Ben towards his Uncle. Add Snoke chiming in about Anakin's legacy to the mix, and it adds up to a recipe for disaster. Hopefully, all is not lost for Ben Solo.

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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 3:56 am

The first thing that comes to mind is the emotional (in)stability.
I was always thinking that Leia and Luke both were enormously emotionaly stable. Especially Luke.
On the other hand, Anakin and Ben are completely emotional wrecks.
We can discuss to the dooms day if it is due to genetics (Twins  mother is very stable as well), or it is due to the different circumstances of their upbringing (I think both).


Last edited by Darth_Awakened on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Guest on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 3:59 am

Nature vs. nurture?
It's allways both...imo....agree with you @Darth_Awakened

But maybe it's easier if you don't know your legacy....less pressure, I think

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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by panki on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:16 am

I feel it was good for Anakin to join the jedi order...things went wrong for him primarily after the death of Qui Gon Jinn.

- Count Dooku was Qui Gon's master and his death upset Dooku so much that he left the jedi order and become a sith. This would never have happened if Qui Gon had survived. Palpatine would have thus lost another valuable apprentice and the clone wars might not have happened.

- Qui Gon would have become Anakin's master and been more understanding of Anakin's inner conflict since he was a grey jedi.

- Also, Obi-wan would not have had to grow up faster than he did and could have had more time to grow as a master and not be given the heavy responsibility of being a parent figure to a young kid when he himself was quite young.

- Palpatine would have had a much harder time getting his claws into Anakin since Qui Gon wasn't as deferential to the council as Obi-wan and would have been able to better protect Anakin.

However, on the flip side, if Anakin was no longer conflicted, he might have either not married Padme....so no Luke, Leia or Ben. If he did marry Padme, he would have left the jedi order and again history would have been different...he might have been a general like he was in the clone wars but not a jedi....so he would have been more like Han Solo and without any fear and inner conflict, Palpatine would not have got hold of him and Luke, Leia and Ben would have had a different life.
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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Guest on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:56 am

Leia had a lot of burden as a princess and being part of the Rebellion, but she still didn't have some shadowy dark side user trying to manipulate her. She is a great example of how someone can be a bad*** without needing to be a Jedi or Sith. She's got so much of her mother in her.


I've read somewhere that Dooku had already left the Jedi order at the time of TPM, but if that's not true, he would have been the best person to train Anakin. As good of a Jedi as Obi-Wan was, I don't think Anakin ever saw him as an authority figure. He saw him as more of an older brother type that was more of a peer than an authority.

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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:13 am

[quote="Force22"]The secret: make sure there's no creepy dark sider creepy hovering over and watching the little Skywalker since they are young.

But I agree with emotional instability as well. Anakin was the "chosen on". That's a burden.

Ben was the son of two war heroes, with a famous politician for mother, famous racer for father, nephew of the last Jedi, grandchild of Darth Vader. Burden.

OTOH, Leia was a princess, leader of the rebellion, I actually think she's the one carrying the most weight. But the difference is that she's selfless. In ANH, when she consoles Luke cause Obi-Wan died. Her planet has just been blow to pieces!!!
@Force22

Leia: force sensitive - step daughter of Bail Organa senator and leader of rebellion: burden as well.
Luke: force sensitive - jedi apprentice - confronted with the truth that his idealized father is no one else but Darth Vader. As well his teacher Obi Van did not tell him the whole true...again burden...still Luke has resisted.

So, speaking of burdens. I can not see a big difference. All 4 carry the burden. As Han Solo said to Finn: The galaxy is counting on us.
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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Darth Dementor on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 11:03 am

@Force22 wrote:The secret: make sure there's no creepy dark sider creepy hovering over and watching the little Skywalker since they are young.

But I agree with emotional instability as well. Anakin was the "chosen on". That's a burden.

Ben was the son of two war heroes, with a famous politician for mother, famous racer for father, nephew of the last Jedi, grandchild of Darth Vader. Burden.

OTOH, Leia was a princess, leader of the rebellion, I actually think she's the one carrying the most weight. But the difference is that she's selfless. In ANH, when she consoles Luke cause Obi-Wan died. Her planet has just been blow to pieces!!!




Say what you want, but Leia is the real bad*** in Star Wars. Even in the ST. While Luke goes sightseeing in remote island, Han walks away, Leia remains and prepares to fight.


Bingo. Anakin and Ben had some Dark Side creep nudging them towards its side since they were kids. Leia and Luke grew up in a loving family without some skeeve getting in their heads since childhood.


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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by panki on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 1:52 pm

Qui-Ghost wrote:Leia had a lot of burden as a princess and being part of the Rebellion, but she still didn't have some shadowy dark side user trying to manipulate her. She is a great example of how someone can be a bad*** without needing to be a Jedi or Sith. She's got so much of her mother in her.


I've read somewhere that Dooku had already left the Jedi order at the time of TPM, but if that's not true, he would have been the best person to train Anakin. As good of a Jedi as Obi-Wan was, I don't think Anakin ever saw him as an authority figure. He saw him as more of an older brother type that was more of a peer than an authority.
@Qui-Ghost

Even if Qui-Gon Jinn had wanted to be Anakin's master, Dooku would have definitely helped him out in Anakin's training....and Dooku was also comfortable with the light and dark sides of the force....Anakin's story would have been very different.

Here is the moment Dooku decides to leave the jedi order and join the sith when Palpatine shows him Qui- Gon's death Sad


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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Guest on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 3:31 pm

I never understood why that would cause Dooku to leave the Jedi and become a Sith. "Oh, you guys killed my old padawan... that makes me sad, let me join you!"

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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by panki on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:13 pm

Qui-Ghost wrote:I never understood why that would cause Dooku to leave the Jedi and become a Sith.  "Oh, you guys killed my old padawan... that makes me sad, let me join you!"
@Qui-Ghost

Dooku was already unhappy with the Jedi Council for being the senate's enforcers and all the rampant corruption in the republic.....jedi masters and their padawans have extremely intense relationships...similar to a parent-child one...that is why force bonds among them are common...and masters often sacrifice themselves to save their padawan's life (Like Depa Billaba saved Kannan Jarrus during order 66) .... so for Dooku, losing Qui Gon was like losing his own child and it was the last straw....and Palpatine was the one who broke the news to him....he would have put his own spin on it, blaming the jedi council and republic for the death....he would never go tell Dooku- it was my apprentice who did it on my instructions Razz
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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Darth Dementor on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 8:34 pm

@panki wrote:
Qui-Ghost wrote:Leia had a lot of burden as a princess and being part of the Rebellion, but she still didn't have some shadowy dark side user trying to manipulate her. She is a great example of how someone can be a bad*** without needing to be a Jedi or Sith. She's got so much of her mother in her.


I've read somewhere that Dooku had already left the Jedi order at the time of TPM, but if that's not true, he would have been the best person to train Anakin. As good of a Jedi as Obi-Wan was, I don't think Anakin ever saw him as an authority figure. He saw him as more of an older brother type that was more of a peer than an authority.
@Qui-Ghost

Even if Qui-Gon Jinn had wanted to be Anakin's master, Dooku would have definitely helped him out in Anakin's training....and Dooku was also comfortable with the light and dark sides of the force....Anakin's story would have been very different.

Here is the moment Dooku decides to leave the jedi order and join the sith when Palpatine shows him Qui- Gon's death Sad

@panki

I always believed if Qui Gonn had lived Anakin wouldn't have turned into a Sith, becoming grey instead. Jinn would have encouraged his feelings for Padme and told Anakin both light and dark are needed in the Force.

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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by Guest on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 10:57 pm

West Ham
So you are saying Qui-Gon needed to die so Kylo Ren would be born.....dammit....this is a catch 22....lol....if only Vader in the OT was written better than a poorly written one dimensional grand-evilnnes-for-no-reason character who needed a better story thus triggering the need in GL for  creating PT....I liked PT...but what I didn't like about it was how Ani's downfall was portrayed...there was potential here for much more intense story.....but then again GL is no JJ and Christensen is no Driver...

Oth if Qui-Gon lived and Ani became the gray Jedi would we even have ST that would dabble with yin yang.....tfa was awesome...can't wait for 8....we just might have to accept Qui-Gon's sacrifice as a necessary evil....*sighs*

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Re: How to raise a Skywalker and not have them fall to the dark side:

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 10:47 am

Love them. Pay attention to them. Don't be judgemental, let them know they can talk about their worries. Most of all love them.

In short be a parent.
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