General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by ReyofLightSide on Sun 30 Jul - 19:55

I just started it and like it so far.
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by panki on Sun 30 Jul - 20:01

Got the book but just haven't had time to read it. Sad

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 30 Jul - 20:26

@SanghaRen, I read some leaked stuff about Battlefront 2, and

Spoiler:

apparently Iden has a son called Del, and it seems likely that Del Senior is the father. But the leak was a big jumble of leaked details so it's impossible to know for sure what's what.

Haven't even got the book yet, but thought you might be interested to know Very Happy
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SanghaRen on Sun 30 Jul - 21:38

@Darth Dingbat wrote:@SanghaRen, I read some leaked stuff about Battlefront 2, and

Spoiler:

apparently Iden has a son called Del, and it seems likely that Del Senior is the father. But the leak was a big jumble of leaked details so it's impossible to know for sure what's what.

Haven't even got the book yet, but thought you might be interested to know Very Happy
@Darth Dingbat

Ooh, that is interesting! Thanks. And

Spoiler:
would be like my favorite Reylo version : hints, open end and on the next trilogy, we meet their kid. The hints in Inferno Squad are small and coming more from Del although Iden does tend to be more relaxed with him. I won't hold my breath until it's confirmed because I wonder how them having a child would factor in a video game which is focusing on battles. I would have thought the game picks up after the book and Iden, Gideon and Del go on their next mission. But who knows.

I don't know anything about the story of the game. I will try to follow a little. I wish I knew someone who's good with games and I could watch him/her play. I s*** at games so I gave up on buying any.
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 31 Jul - 4:16

I read the book and really liked it too. It left me wanting more. I will talk about it more soon, but I just arrived at a hotel after traveling all day and am very fried right now. :-) But I definitely recommend it.

I also saw the same romance hints as you @SanghaRen. Very Happy
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 31 Jul - 10:07

@SoloSideCousin wrote:I read the book and really liked it too. It left me wanting more. I will talk about it more soon, but I just arrived at a hotel after traveling all day and am very fried right now. :-) But I definitely recommend it.

I also saw the same romance hints as you @SanghaRen. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

I am so happy other people are reading the book! I thought I would be the only one and would have to discuss it with myself Smile

You know that I am not the romantic type so to me these hints are up in the air until confirmed in one way or the other. However, after finishing the book, I realized that both also have an age gap - 10 years I think. I kind of wonder if it's always the same group of people deciding on the ages of the characters because there's a pattern here. Actually, I kind of even find it a bit offensive that it's always young girls early to mid 20s ending up with guys that are 9-10 years older. Please, can we have it the other way around one day? So that older women like me can feel like they still have some worth? Emmanuel and Brigitte Macron, anyone?

I just checked the pics of Del and Gideon. Below are from left to right Iden, Del and Gideon. I don't know why I did not check the pics before reading the book. Btw I have a confession to make: the first time I saw Iden Versio, I thought she was based on Andi Gutierrez, one of the presenters of the Star Wars show. Back to Del and Gideon, they are not how I pictured them. Especially Del Meeko. I was picturing him with softer features. The actor portraying him has softer features and eyes. Anyways.



Some articles to read for those who feel like it:
http://www.starwars.com/news/7-reasons-iden-versio-rules-battlefront-ii-inferno-squad
http://www.starwars.com/news/7-reasons-battlefront-ii-inferno-squad-is-the-perfect-prequel
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by panki on Mon 31 Jul - 10:19

There were plenty of older women-younger men pairings in legends...the one that immediately springs to mind is jedi master Tholme's LI, who is a few centuries older than him.



But even in canon, Norra Wexley is definitely older than Wedge Antilles but they end up together....hopefully we'll get more such pairings in time. I would personally prefer more couples in the same age group being represented in canon.


Update- Just started reading the book Inferno Squad and like the story a lot. I'm still trying to understand Iden Versio as a character but Del and Gideon remind me a lot of how Poe and Finn respectively are portrayed in the books and comics.

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 31 Jul - 19:23

@panki wrote:There were plenty of older women-younger men pairings in legends...the one that immediately springs to mind is jedi master Tholme's LI, who is a few centuries older than him.

But even in canon, Norra Wexley is definitely older than Wedge Antilles but they end up together....hopefully we'll get more such pairings in time. I would personally prefer more couples in the same age group being represented in canon.

Update- Just started reading the book Inferno Squad and like the story a lot. I'm still trying to understand Iden Versio as a character but Del and Gideon remind me a lot of how Poe and Finn respectively are portrayed in the books and comics.
@panki

The bolded: that might be a bit much Smile I was looking for something less, er, dramatic such as the woman being 10 years older for a change. Did Norra and Wedge end together? They had a thing, but I thought it was over after her husband returned and that that was it even after her husband died.

Well, wait and see if you still think Del and Gideon are a bit like Poe and Finn. I am curious to hear what you think about the characters when you're done reading the book.
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by panki on Mon 31 Jul - 19:38

@SanghaRen wrote:
@panki wrote:There were plenty of older women-younger men pairings in legends...the one that immediately springs to mind is jedi master Tholme's LI, who is a few centuries older than him.

But even in canon, Norra Wexley is definitely older than Wedge Antilles but they end up together....hopefully we'll get more such pairings in time. I would personally prefer more couples in the same age group being represented in canon.

Update- Just started reading the book Inferno Squad and like the story a lot. I'm still trying to understand Iden Versio as a character but Del and Gideon remind me a lot of how Poe and Finn respectively are portrayed in the books and comics.
@panki

The bolded: that might be a bit much Smile I was looking for something less, er, dramatic such as the woman being 10 years older for a change. Did Norra and Wedge end together? They had a thing, but I thought it was over after her husband returned and that that was it even after her husband died.

Well, wait and see if you still think Del and Gideon are a bit like Poe and Finn. I am curious to hear what you think about the characters when you're done reading the book.
@SanghaRen

Lol....I guess a few centuries age gap is a bit much....but in that particular case, it made a really romantic love story with them staying together for years until his death, and then she remained at his grave till her death years later.

Norra and Wedge did indeed end up together after Norra's husband passed away in the third Aftermath book....she and Temmin go stay with Wedge at the end of the book- they are definitely moving forward as a family...so older woman- younger man relationships are canon. Smile
Interestingly, even in the EU, Wedge ended up with a fellow rebel after her husband passed away.

Spoiler:
I've only read less than half the book so far.....Del's charm and sense of humor but becoming really serious when needed, his climbing the ranks the hard way and his love of tech is very much like Poe and Gideon's need to be close to others yet pushing the same people away and slight reckless streak in his determination to complete missions is very much like Finn....of course I'm talking about Poe and Finn in books like Poe's Log, the Poe comics and Finn's Story since they have fleshed out the characters there a lot more.

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 31 Jul - 22:13

@panki

I read Empire's End. Somehow I forgot that Norra and Temmin go to stay with Wedge. I was more focused on Rae Sloane and Sinjir/Conder. I have a very selective memory Smile

Let's just say with regards to Gideon and Finn that, without going into spoilery details since you're still reading the book

Spoiler:
I'd rather tag along Finn than Gideon. The latter is more calculating and very ambitious. I don't know if Finn was shown as ambitious in the book but in the movie he did not look ambitious at all. I am not very fond of Gideon, I have to say.
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by panki on Tue 1 Aug - 5:09

@SanghaRen wrote:@panki

I read Empire's End. Somehow I forgot that Norra and Temmin go to stay with Wedge. I was more focused on Rae Sloane and Sinjir/Conder. I have a very selective memory Smile

Let's just say with regards to Gideon and Finn that, without going into spoilery details since you're still reading the book

Spoiler:
I'd rather tag along Finn than Gideon. The latter is more calculating and very ambitious. I don't know if Finn was shown as ambitious in the book but in the movie he did not look ambitious at all. I am not very fond of Gideon, I have to say.
@SanghaRen

I don't blame you.... Norra and Wedge aren't exactly my favourite couple in canon...Norra irritates me a lot.

Spoiler:
Okay... I haven't come to that part as yet. But Gideon losing his family at a young age and need for people does come across as Finn-like....I also feel  the way he handled his first Inferno squad mission at the Singularity something Finn would do. As for any later ambitions, Finn definitely hasn't showed ambition as yet but he almost destroyed the resistance completely in TFA by leading everyone to SKB without a plan..so not exactly the nicest move on his part either..... but okay, I'll reserve my judgement until I read further.

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 1 Aug - 5:13

@panki wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:@panki

I read Empire's End. Somehow I forgot that Norra and Temmin go to stay with Wedge. I was more focused on Rae Sloane and Sinjir/Conder. I have a very selective memory Smile

Let's just say with regards to Gideon and Finn that, without going into spoilery details since you're still reading the book

Spoiler:
I'd rather tag along Finn than Gideon. The latter is more calculating and very ambitious. I don't know if Finn was shown as ambitious in the book but in the movie he did not look ambitious at all. I am not very fond of Gideon, I have to say.
@SanghaRen

I don't blame you.... Norra and Wedge aren't exactly my favourite couple in canon...Norra irritates me a lot.

Spoiler:
Okay... I haven't come to that part as yet. But Gideon losing his family at a young age and need for people does come across as Finn-like....I also feel  the way he handled his first Inferno squad mission at the Singularity something Finn would do. As for any later ambitions, Finn definitely hasn't showed ambition as yet but he almost destroyed the resistance completely in TFA by leading everyone to SKB without a plan..so not exactly the nicest move on his part either..... but okay, I'll reserve my judgement until I read further.
@panki

Yes, let us know when you finish because I have some thoughts about Gideon as well.
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by Helix on Tue 1 Aug - 5:21

@SanghaRen wrote:@panki

I read Empire's End. Somehow I forgot that Norra and Temmin go to stay with Wedge. I was more focused on Rae Sloane and Sinjir/Conder. I have a very selective memory Smile

Let's just say with regards to Gideon and Finn that, without going into spoilery details since you're still reading the book

Spoiler:
I'd rather tag along Finn than Gideon. The latter is more calculating and very ambitious. I don't know if Finn was shown as ambitious in the book but in the movie he did not look ambitious at all. I am not very fond of Gideon, I have to say.
@SanghaRen

Sinjir/Conder were such a breath of fresh air, honestly.
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SanghaRen on Tue 1 Aug - 9:59

@SoloSideCousin @panki

Now poor panki is under pressure to finish the book. I wonder if Gideon might become a point of debate... Smile

@Helix

Yes, Sinjir/Conder was really well written and unexpected in a way. I mean not that they were together obviously but that they became the main romance of the book. It was so cute when Sinjir was starting to think more and more about Conder. My heart was melting and I am not really the romantic type. Well, it's not entirely true. I am but I have different views on what is romantic than most, I guess. A bouquet of flowers and candle-lit dinner is my version of a nightmare for instance. I prefer to see flowers still attached to their roots in the ground rather than cut and put in some water to die after a few days. And a candle-lit dinner looks to me like a movie set so I feel like I have to act. So yeah, sarcastic Sinjir melted my heart because his feelings felt really genuine to me and Conder is just a sweetheart.
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by panki on Tue 1 Aug - 10:50

@SanghaRen wrote:@SoloSideCousin @panki

Now poor panki is under pressure to finish the book. I wonder if Gideon might become a point of debate... Smile

@Helix

Yes, Sinjir/Conder was really well written and unexpected in a way. I mean not that they were together obviously but that they became the main romance of the book. It was so cute when Sinjir was starting to think more and more about Conder. My heart was melting and I am not really the romantic type. Well, it's not entirely true. I am but I have different views on what is romantic than most, I guess. A bouquet of flowers and candle-lit dinner is my version of a nightmare for instance. I prefer to see flowers still attached to their roots in the ground rather than cut and put in some water to die after a few days. And a candle-lit dinner looks to me like a movie set so I feel like I have to act. So yeah, sarcastic Sinjir melted my heart because his feelings felt really genuine to me and Conder is just a sweetheart.
@SanghaRen

Book finished Very Happy ...I tend to read really fast and this book was really well written.....Christie Golden truly captures the spirit of characters from the TCW period really well.

Spoiler:
I do feel Gideon is more hardcore than Finn but to draw a parallel, Finn also happily killed his fellow FO stormies without an ounce of regret because he believed in his actions similar to Gideon deciding to wipe out the Dreamers. I don't think either Finn or Gideon are bad guys... I just got the same feeling of intensity and the need to pursue what they consider important no matter what....and Gideon's competitiveness with Iden over leadership of Inferno Squad is also a bit similar to Finn's competing with nines during the stormtrooper training program.

But that aside, I love how they are addressing father-daughter relationships in this books....Iden and her father, and Lux and his step-daughter etc. They even ventured slightly into mother-daughter relationships as well, but not as much as I would have liked to see.

Regarding Sinjir and Condor, I was rooting for them throughout the story.....was really glad they got to be together. I wont mind if they acknowledge that relationship in the movies by making one of the side characters in the resistance their adopted child, maybe someone like Connix.

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SanghaRen on Tue 1 Aug - 13:17

@panki

I never watched TCW and I am not the most devoted SW fan so I can just confirm that even for people who are so so into SW, it's extremely well written and captures the dilemma you encounter when you get to know the enemy as opposed to just shoot at it from a distance. Not that I would know by experience (thank Universe), but it's what I would imagine it's be like. Here are some more detailed thoughts. Let me tag @SoloSideCousin first. Done.

Spoiler:
I appreciate that Iden and Del change their views and start to empathize with the "enemy" but still believe in the Empire. It makes it more believable to me than if they all of a sudden decided to switch sides, which is a bit what Finn does in TFA even if he wants to leave for like 2 seconds. Plus the other side is no better. I mean they torture a guy for 7 hours until he finally died. And that is just mentioned as a matter of fact, making it sound like something ordinary which I guess was the author's goal. It sent a long shiver down my spine. Earlier you feel like "ooh, these rebels are actually ok" and bang, they torture someone for 7 hours.

What really bugs me with Gideon is that he doesn't evolve much. Iden and Del, as mentioned previously, they start questioning their beliefs and come to feel compassion for the other side, realizing that they are not that different. That's also why a romance could make sense between the 2. They both separately take the same path of showing empathy for the enemy and at the end even trust one another with their mixed feelings.

When Iden tells Gideon that killing the Dreamers was unnecessary, I was with her at 100% and I wanted to slap Gideon in the face. It was unnecessary. There was no life or death situation. From my point of view, he's the one character with his rebel counterpart who remain static, trapped in their anger. Maybe if he had been more with Piikow like Del instead of the leader of the Dreamers he would have also started to question himself, but the way he is written, I have my doubts. It makes me wonder if the game will show this different mindset with maybe Iden and Del trying to keep Gideon from lining up the corpses.

The relationship between Iden and her father is really gripping. My parents are not that extreme, but they had a little bit of this coldness when I was a child. And my mom was demanding with me. I had to have the best grades. I suspect that my grades went down to still an acceptable level at one point partly as a defense mechanism from my side. One she was disappointed, I didn't need to fear disappointment anymore, just get used to her what-seemed-constant disappointment. At the same time, if you'd ask my mom, she would tell you a different story. She doesn't remember being demanding with me. Over time I came to acknowledge that I am also a very sensitive person and I was probably making it hard for myself. Another type of personality would have just thought "whatever" while I was trying to please. Like Iden. It's actually astrology that got me to think more about it because sometimes one can have some violence aspects in the home part of their chart without violence having taken place, but the person, as a child, perceived some behaviors as violent and felt threatened.

So I would love it if SW was showing tough mothers for a change. I know there's Sabine's mom, but she's only in a couple of episodes. I'd like the female equivalent of Admiral Versio because that's a reality too and I have the feeling SW is still putting mothers on a pedestal. Sort of, because Leia has her flaws and it did impact Ben, but then it's not highlighted in a way that everybody sees it.

Here is an interview of Christie Golden, which I find interesting.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/23/16015266/star-wars-battlefront-2-inferno-squad-christie-golden-sdcc-2017
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by panki on Tue 1 Aug - 14:14

@SanghaRen wrote:@panki

I never watched TCW and I am not the most devoted SW fan so I can just confirm that even for people who are so so into SW, it's extremely well written and captures the dilemma you encounter when you get to know the enemy as opposed to just shoot at it from a distance. Not that I would know by experience (thank Universe), but it's what I would imagine it's be like. Here are some more detailed thoughts. Let me tag @SoloSideCousin first. Done.

Spoiler:
I appreciate that Iden and Del change their views and start to empathize with the "enemy" but still believe in the Empire. It makes it more believable to me than if they all of a sudden decided to switch sides, which is a bit what Finn does in TFA even if he wants to leave for like 2 seconds. Plus the other side is no better. I mean they torture a guy for 7 hours until he finally died. And that is just mentioned as a matter of fact, making it sound like something ordinary which I guess was the author's goal. It sent a long shiver down my spine. Earlier you feel like "ooh, these rebels are actually ok" and bang, they torture someone for 7 hours.

What really bugs me with Gideon is that he doesn't evolve much. Iden and Del, as mentioned previously, they start questioning their beliefs and come to feel compassion for the other side, realizing that they are not that different. That's also why a romance could make sense between the 2. They both separately take the same path of showing empathy for the enemy and at the end even trust one another with their mixed feelings.

When Iden tells Gideon that killing the Dreamers was unnecessary, I was with her at 100% and I wanted to slap Gideon in the face. It was unnecessary. There was no life or death situation. From my point of view, he's the one character with his rebel counterpart who remain static, trapped in their anger. Maybe if he had been more with Piikow like Del instead of the leader of the Dreamers he would have also started to question himself, but the way he is written, I have my doubts. It makes me wonder if the game will show this different mindset with maybe Iden and Del trying to keep Gideon from lining up the corpses.

The relationship between Iden and her father is really gripping. My parents are not that extreme, but they had a little bit of this coldness when I was a child. And my mom was demanding with me. I had to have the best grades. I suspect that my grades went down to still an acceptable level at one point partly as a defense mechanism from my side. One she was disappointed, I didn't need to fear disappointment anymore, just get used to her what-seemed-constant disappointment. At the same time, if you'd ask my mom, she would tell you a different story. She doesn't remember being demanding with me. Over time I came to acknowledge that I am also a very sensitive person and I was probably making it hard for myself. Another type of personality would have just thought "whatever" while I was trying to please. Like Iden. It's actually astrology that got me to think more about it because sometimes one can have some violence aspects in the home part of their chart without violence having taken place, but the person, as a child, perceived some behaviors as violent and felt threatened.

So I would love it if SW was showing tough mothers for a change. I know there's Sabine's mom, but she's only in a couple of episodes. I'd like the female equivalent of Admiral Versio because that's a reality too and I have the feeling SW is still putting mothers on a pedestal. Sort of, because Leia has her flaws and it did impact Ben, but then it's not highlighted in a way that everybody sees it.

Here is an interview of Christie Golden, which I find interesting.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/23/16015266/star-wars-battlefront-2-inferno-squad-christie-golden-sdcc-2017
@SanghaRen
(and tagging @SoloSideCousin)

I do agree with your point regarding Christie Golden's writing style....it does have mass appeal but there were elements and characters she threw in from as easter eggs from TCW show and her novel Dark Disciple which wouldn't matter much in case a person hadn't read or watched the stuff but would have emotional appeal to those who did.

Spoiler:
I do agree with your view about Iden and Del...though Del was a likeable person from the very start and didn't change as much as Iden did....his old team loved him, his previous captain wasn't happy to lose him and he even tried to make his teammates comfortable literally from day one so he was always a nice guy and kind of remained a nice guy...I felt the only real shift for him was his wanting to find a way to help Piikow even if it went against their mandate....but even that was something in his head which he knew he couldn't act upon.

Gideon on the other hand struck me as the one who evolved the most in the book, even more than Iden....first Iden and he are similar and they have this sibling type of relationship going....but as he hangs around the Dreamers, particularly Staven, he absorbs more of his personality. Out of the whole team, Gideon is the one who unconsciously becomes the most like the Dreamers. I also felt like he wanted to impress Staven when he was worried about how Iden was the better pilot and Staven would no longer be impressed by him, and his constant remarks about being leader in case something happened to Iden....you are probably right about the fact that Piikow's company could have mellowed him a little instead of turning him into Staven Ver. 2.0.

I agree that Iden and Del are definitely going to get closer, considering they are already on a first name basis with one another- so their paths are kind of fixed...but Gideon's path is a little unclear- I can see him either taking Iden's rebuke of him to heart and he might be the one making the biggest sacrifices for the team, or he is going to turn into a brutal and unrepentant person, eventually turning on the others.

I'm sorry to hear how things have been with you and your folks....really hope things have got better with time, though being an empath will not make life easy for you Sad .....do you have Venus in the 8th house or some bad placements in the 4th, 5th or 9th houses? That normally affects one's relationship with parents.

Speaking of mothers, I would love for Leia and Ben to have a similar relationship to Iden and her Dad, with Han being the free spirit parent like Zeehay was....right now, I am seriously wondering whether Leia sent Ben and the KOR on a secret mission to infiltrate the FO when she figures that Snoke will do anything to recruit him...and Ben has had to do a lot of questionable things to keep his cover. it would be a very interesting twist.

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SanghaRen on Tue 1 Aug - 15:34

@panki

I understand what you mean about TCW. There's one character specifically I looked up on Internet to understand who he was. I guess it wasn't necessary to understand the story, but I still wanted to know if indeed he had appeared in the SW universe before.

Spoiler:
You are right about Del. He is likeable form the start and Iden probably changes more than Del. I came from the "questioning your actions" point of view which I think Del wasn't doing before so I think he did free himself a little from a pattern. For Gideon, I feel as though he got deeper entrenched into his pattern. Yes, it will be interesting to see how he is in the game. Especially if the spoiler provided by Dingbat is true and there is a Del Junior. Where would Gideon fit in all this then? I still wonder though how much backstory and emotions will be shown in the game. I did not play the first Battlefront and in general I don't play this type of games so I don't know if it's only battles or you also have cinematic sequences. I actually haven't played games at all for a while now. I tried TFA Lego and got motion sick - can you believe it?

Spoiler:
Yeah, it's all ok with my parents now since some years. We are different people so we still fight a lot, but I am surprisingly (or not) the one who has difficulties to show warmth towards them. But, we mostly get along when we don't enter certain discussions. I have Mars conjunct the IC in Pisces. Deep-seated anger that is difficult to control especially with family. When Uranus hit it by transit, I broke down big time. That's also when I yelled out my grudge at my Mom. Not a happy time but the venom was at least partly out. I also have Venus in 7th but close to the 8th cusp square Pluto in 10th. I know that Pluto in 10th partly represents my Mom and how I perceived her in my childhood. She is most probably an Ascendant Scorpio like me. I still see her as quite scorpionic but in the meantime I also acknowledged my own scorpionic side so it's more now "hey, let's be scorpionic together". Not surprisingly with Pluto in 10th I also have, as a former colleague would say, bad karma with bosses (or people of authority in general) Smile.
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by panki on Wed 2 Aug - 19:32

Just read a comic that made my blood boil so much  and I apologise in advance for the rant.....its a story arc where Vader gets the crystal for his lightsaber. Vader uses underhand and cowardly methods to distract the jedi since he cannot defeat him in a fair fight by breaking a dam to kill a whole town of innocents including children. While the jedi tries desperately to save them, Vader kills the jedi, takes the lightsaber and ends up killing those poor townspeople anyway.

It is one thing to have stories in the EU where Vader fought jedi and rebels, but in canon he is a lot worse. I mean, vader even knows Palpatine lied about having the means to save Padme but still decides to be his lapdog and kill innocents. I seriously question how  he was allowed to become a force ghost after such disgusting deeds when other poor jedi died and were forgotten. I don't get how people think Kylo is worse than him.

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 3 Aug - 2:41

@panki wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:@panki

I never watched TCW and I am not the most devoted SW fan so I can just confirm that even for people who are so so into SW, it's extremely well written and captures the dilemma you encounter when you get to know the enemy as opposed to just shoot at it from a distance. Not that I would know by experience (thank Universe), but it's what I would imagine it's be like. Here are some more detailed thoughts. Let me tag @SoloSideCousin first. Done.

Spoiler:
I appreciate that Iden and Del change their views and start to empathize with the "enemy" but still believe in the Empire. It makes it more believable to me than if they all of a sudden decided to switch sides, which is a bit what Finn does in TFA even if he wants to leave for like 2 seconds. Plus the other side is no better. I mean they torture a guy for 7 hours until he finally died. And that is just mentioned as a matter of fact, making it sound like something ordinary which I guess was the author's goal. It sent a long shiver down my spine. Earlier you feel like "ooh, these rebels are actually ok" and bang, they torture someone for 7 hours.

What really bugs me with Gideon is that he doesn't evolve much. Iden and Del, as mentioned previously, they start questioning their beliefs and come to feel compassion for the other side, realizing that they are not that different. That's also why a romance could make sense between the 2. They both separately take the same path of showing empathy for the enemy and at the end even trust one another with their mixed feelings.

When Iden tells Gideon that killing the Dreamers was unnecessary, I was with her at 100% and I wanted to slap Gideon in the face. It was unnecessary. There was no life or death situation. From my point of view, he's the one character with his rebel counterpart who remain static, trapped in their anger. Maybe if he had been more with Piikow like Del instead of the leader of the Dreamers he would have also started to question himself, but the way he is written, I have my doubts. It makes me wonder if the game will show this different mindset with maybe Iden and Del trying to keep Gideon from lining up the corpses.

The relationship between Iden and her father is really gripping. My parents are not that extreme, but they had a little bit of this coldness when I was a child. And my mom was demanding with me. I had to have the best grades. I suspect that my grades went down to still an acceptable level at one point partly as a defense mechanism from my side. One she was disappointed, I didn't need to fear disappointment anymore, just get used to her what-seemed-constant disappointment. At the same time, if you'd ask my mom, she would tell you a different story. She doesn't remember being demanding with me. Over time I came to acknowledge that I am also a very sensitive person and I was probably making it hard for myself. Another type of personality would have just thought "whatever" while I was trying to please. Like Iden. It's actually astrology that got me to think more about it because sometimes one can have some violence aspects in the home part of their chart without violence having taken place, but the person, as a child, perceived some behaviors as violent and felt threatened.

So I would love it if SW was showing tough mothers for a change. I know there's Sabine's mom, but she's only in a couple of episodes. I'd like the female equivalent of Admiral Versio because that's a reality too and I have the feeling SW is still putting mothers on a pedestal. Sort of, because Leia has her flaws and it did impact Ben, but then it's not highlighted in a way that everybody sees it.

Here is an interview of Christie Golden, which I find interesting.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/23/16015266/star-wars-battlefront-2-inferno-squad-christie-golden-sdcc-2017
@SanghaRen
(and tagging @SoloSideCousin)

I do agree with your point regarding Christie Golden's writing style....it does have mass appeal but there were elements and characters she threw in from as easter eggs from TCW show and her novel Dark Disciple which wouldn't matter much in case a person hadn't read or watched the stuff but would have emotional appeal to those who did.

Spoiler:
I do agree with your view about Iden and Del...though Del was a likeable person from the very start and didn't change as much as Iden did....his old team loved him, his previous captain wasn't happy to lose him and he even tried to make his teammates comfortable literally from day one so he was always a nice guy and kind of remained a nice guy...I felt the only real shift for him was his wanting to find a way to help Piikow even if it went against their mandate....but even that was something in his head which he knew he couldn't act upon.

Gideon on the other hand struck me as the one who evolved the most in the book, even more than Iden....first Iden and he are similar and they have this sibling type of relationship going....but as he hangs around the Dreamers, particularly Staven, he absorbs more of his personality. Out of the whole team, Gideon is the one who unconsciously becomes the most like the Dreamers. I also felt like he wanted to impress Staven when he was worried about how Iden was the better pilot and Staven would no longer be impressed by him, and his constant remarks about being leader in case something happened to Iden....you are probably right about the fact that Piikow's company could have mellowed him a little instead of turning him into Staven Ver. 2.0.

I agree that Iden and Del are definitely going to get closer, considering they are already on a first name basis with one another- so their paths are kind of fixed...but Gideon's path is a little unclear- I can see him either taking Iden's rebuke of him to heart and he might be the one making the biggest sacrifices for the team, or he is going to turn into a brutal and unrepentant person, eventually turning on the others.

I'm sorry to hear how things have been with you and your folks....really hope things have got better with time, though being an empath will not make life easy for you Sad .....do you have Venus in the 8th house or some bad placements in the 4th, 5th or 9th houses? That normally affects one's relationship with parents.

Speaking of mothers, I would love for Leia and Ben to have a similar relationship to Iden and her Dad, with Han being the free spirit parent like Zeehay was....right now, I am seriously wondering whether Leia sent Ben and the KOR on a secret mission to infiltrate the FO when she figures that Snoke will do anything to recruit him...and Ben has had to do a lot of questionable things to keep his cover. it would be a very interesting twist.
@panki

Oh wow, I'm sorry for being so behind.  I have been on vacation and come back completely exhausted every night, and then I can't do "spoiler" tags on my phone, and what I wanted to say should be in spoiler tags ... but anyway, I am finally at my laptop for the moment. Very Happy

[spoiler="Spoiler"]I agree that Del started nice and remained very nice.  He seems like he was always a people person and that showed with his concern for Piikow and for the other members.  I think there were hints that he liked Iden from the beginning, but IMO she was not ready to be with him until she went through the Dreamer experience.

I do feel like Iden evolved quite a bit in that at the beginning she was just kind of a clone of her Dad.  Everything was the Versio way.  It wasn't just being an Imperial, because plenty of Imperials were a lot more in touch with their emotions (like Del and that Tarvyn guy) than she was.  She just took every rule her father said at face value.  But the experience with being perceived as a Rebel sympathizer, especially by her mother, and then later with the Dreamers brought her to a very emotionally naked place where she was forced to question WTF all of these Versio rules and almost total lack of affection from her father really meant.  And IMO, once she was able to start individuating from him, as a result of the harrowing experience she had, she was not so afraid of her emotions and she did not find them as undesirable as she did when she was a pure "Versio".  That's why I say that she was only ready for Del later.  Earlier she was so singleminded in being the best for her father/family/proving herself that she couldn't see good things in front of her.  But once she opened herself up, she could feel all kinds of things, she could make nuanced judgments about the situation (I too like how they were still Imperials, but weren't blinded to the problems, because that is very real.

I also agree the Gideon evolved ... for the worse.  And what I found most fascinating about his evolution was that he was actually corrupted by a Rebel. Staven's influence on Gideon was atrocious IMO.  Gideon was a super competitive special forces operative, just like the rest, but early on, he didn't seem any different than Iden.  They were like Val Kilmer and Tom Cruise in Top Gun --- Inferno Squad style  But once he starts thinking and acting like Staven, he really becomes very disgusting ... taking on a torturer's/war criminal type of mindset.  It wasn't necessary what he did, and you could tell that it made Del sick what he did.  Also, things have changed.  Del and Iden keep a secret from him about their mixed feelings.  He is the outside now, and I bet he stays there and gets worse./spoiler]
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SanghaRen on Thu 3 Aug - 12:19

@SoloSideCousin

No worries, you are not behind Smile And it's nice to get some more feedback as time goes by from other people who read it.

I have seen somewhere on Internet people wondering if we would get one day an Inferno Squad movie. It's not a spoiler, just people wondering. I'd totally watch it. Way more interesting to me than a young Han Solo movie. But then as much as I love old characters, I don't feel like visiting their past, I much prefer to go for new characters and new story lines. I guess I am not a nostalgic person.

In terms of character development, there is another one that goes through an interesting arc: Seyn. It's her arc that first brought tears to my eyes. And her arc made me think of JJ's and Adam Driver's comments about terrorism and each side thinking they're right. I guess I need to put the rest under spoiler tags.

Spoiler:
At the end of it all, the Dreamers are terrorists. They do things for shock value. What Seyn and Sadori were asked to do is a typical act of terrorism. And it is very interesting knowing that this is a Lucasfilm/Disney book that it's Seyn, an Empire product, who decides to delay the bomb so that the 400 kids have time to leave while it's Sadori, an extremist Rebel but a rebel nonetheless, who goes back to finish off the job. I actually cried when he died. And I cried for Seyn because it was clear she was starting to like him. But then, it felt weird to cry for a terrorist and an Empire girl. I am not even sure I cried for them. I guess to me it's just a shame to see young people reaching this level of hatred and violence and ultimately die for a cause that just does not seem that grand in the end. And that makes this book so powerful and the reason why I liked it so much. I ended up feeling for nearly all characters while still being aware that they are dangerous people with whom I would not want to cross path in real life. And Seyn's death... She was on the same path as Iden, but life had other plans (or rather Christie Golden had other plans) for her.

Have I already posted this one? Christie Golden briefly describes the characters.

http://www.starwars.com/news/meet-the-empires-best-christie-golden-on-battlefront-ii-inferno-squad
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by ReyofLightSide on Mon 14 Aug - 13:28

I finished Inferno Squad and really liked it.

Spoiler:
Spoilers  I cried at the end along with Iden. Was surprised they killed off Seyn. The book really did blur the lines between good and evil. The Dreamers really crossing lines with their plans i.e. bombing the students.

I also wonder if those guardian droids (?) are somehow related to Snoke or his people. They were described as looking humanoid.

The Inferno Squad is already down one and I agree, I don't think Gid is going down a good path
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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by Tex on Mon 21 Aug - 14:23

Wasn't sure where to post this, but I came across this cute little dating article in my Glamour magazine. The author questions if it's weird she's attracted to Kylo Ren. Razz For all us single gals looking to find someone. There is hope that you too will find a guy who will be OK with your attraction to Kylo lol.

Full article below:

Article:

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by SkyStar on Mon 21 Aug - 14:35

@Tex wrote:Wasn't sure where to post this, but I came across this cute little dating article in my Glamour magazine. The author questions if it's weird she's attracted to Kylo Ren. Razz For all us single gals looking to find someone. There is hope that you too will find a guy who will be OK with your attraction to Kylo lol.

Full article below:

Article:

@Tex

This was a cute article indeed, thanks for sharing!
I guess my bf is ok with my Kylo obsession. I used to doodle Kylo a lot, but I was too shy to show him, and also when I looked through my phone at the forum and Tumblr I was also shy to admit it to him ( I thought I am so lame and he will laugh at me). But he become scared of what I am hiding from him, lol. When I told him and finally wasn't so shy anymore of my obsession I guess he probably thought it is ok. He even helped me to put on a big TFA poster with Kylo in the center. D:

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Re: General Discussion: Canon Novels/Comics/Short Stories

Post by Tex on Mon 21 Aug - 14:53

@SkyStar

Glad you liked the article and glad things worked out with your boyfriend. Very Happy If anything this article proves that Adam's hair and make-up people on TFA should have won an award. I'm missing that perfectly coiffed hair in all TLJ marketing lol
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