What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 19 Mar - 13:59

@Piper Maru wrote:I'm loving this conversation, guys.

I agree with Rey projecting her own insecurities and abandonment issues onto Kylo and beating the s**t out of him because of it. It's going to be interesting when she finally finds the truth about her parents: what if she reacts the same way Kylo did back then? What if she rejects her lineage and tries to stay away from them?

I also agree with her disappointment at him. He had a chance to come back to his family and he refused it. It's no coincidence that this is Rey's biggest dream and she watched Han and Kylo's conversation from the front row.

@Piper Maru

It also shows Rey is still very much an innocent. She has a starry eyed image of 'family'; because she's never known what it's like to have family her image of them is one of perfection. She doesn't yet realise that families aren't perfect, that heroes can make bad parents, and because a young man is of a star studded lineage and born to wealth and physical comfort,doesn't mean he had a happy childhood.

I suspect she's in for a rude awakening.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by DarthRen on Sun 19 Mar - 14:25

I do think these reports of them fighting as Kylo and Rey might due that she abandoned him in a way his family did. He wanted to be her teacher, he thought she could understand him. Let's be honest, she is in a very similar situation as he was. Having all these amazing powers, not sure what to do with them. I wouldn't be surpised, if Rey's training somehow mirrors Kylo's in a way. Both being frustrated by Luke, eventually realizing their DS connection. Kylo realized when he was older that Darth Vader is his grandfather. Kylo with Darth Vader, Rey might with her parents could be another parallel. Jakku might come to play later on in the trilogy.

This might be reason why Kylo according to some rumours wants to kill her. Not only to punish her for the beating but also in a way his dissapointment in her. He thought probably, as he searched her mind that both are a lot alike as people here mentioned. In this way, it might be key that Rey makes next step. Kylo showed what he thinks of her in TFA, don't think that's going to change even with this fight. He might even save her on the cliff or later on as the vision showed us. It might not be in exact same way, but he will.

It's up to Rey to learn more about him, to get closer to him. As rumours said she doesn't want to fight him. Why is that? Unless she had discovered something important she can relate to. I expect their "hut conversation" to be pretty damn interesting.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by DarthRen on Sun 19 Mar - 14:35

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:I'm loving this conversation, guys.

I agree with Rey projecting her own insecurities and abandonment issues onto Kylo and beating the s**t out of him because of it. It's going to be interesting when she finally finds the truth about her parents: what if she reacts the same way Kylo did back then? What if she rejects her lineage and tries to stay away from them?

I also agree with her disappointment at him. He had a chance to come back to his family and he refused it. It's no coincidence that this is Rey's biggest dream and she watched Han and Kylo's conversation from the front row.

@Piper Maru

It also shows Rey is still very much an innocent. She has a starry eyed image of 'family'; because she's never known what it's like to have family her image of them is one of perfection. She doesn't yet realise that families aren't perfect, that heroes can make bad parents, and because a young man is of a star studded lineage and born to wealth and physical comfort,doesn't mean he had a happy childhood.

I suspect she's in for a rude awakening.

@motherofpearl1

Same can be applied to Luke. Once she realize that he's not this myth, legend, shiny knight that will save everyone. He's old, probably a bit weird and broken man, unwilling to fight and who just stays away from conflict. After all Rey is "the motivator" not only for Kylo. Also for Finn or Luke. This is one of the reasons why i'm against Rey is Skywalker. It's much more interesting for her to be so called "third party" seeing this family feud, imperfect families and relationships. Sort of wake up call for her and valuable life lesson going forward. Rather than being another Skywalker, this offers her to be important in order to sort out Kylo, Luke and others and also unique heritage, yet still interesting and important for plot.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by Hasi on Sun 19 Mar - 15:29

@SkyStar wrote:True, Kylo haven't seen his father for God knows how long and then he suddenly shows up asking to drop everything he was working for. We, as an audience know Han and Leia as heroes etc, but for him they are parents who once sent him away. He has only Hans words to consider at that moment and he didn't trust them enough to return.
@SkyStar

Yes, when Kylo tells Rey "Han Solo would've disappointed you" I 100% believe that he really means it, that from his pov his family failed him and he ended up feeling abandoned, disappointed and betrayed by them. And then Han is finally there doing what he should have done before and in the last moment touches his cheek and you know he's asking for forgiveness too, that makes the scene even more tragic.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by Piper Maru on Sun 19 Mar - 15:51

@Hasi wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:True, Kylo haven't seen his father for God knows how long and then he suddenly shows up asking to drop everything he was working for. We, as an audience know Han and Leia as heroes etc, but for him they are parents who once sent him away. He has only Hans words to consider at that moment and he didn't trust them enough to return.
@SkyStar

Yes, when Kylo tells Rey "Han Solo would've disappointed you" I 100% believe that he really means it, that from his pov his family failed him and he ended up feeling abandoned, disappointed and betrayed by them. And then Han is finally there doing what he should have done before and in the last moment touches his cheek and you know he's asking for forgiveness too, that makes the scene even more tragic.
@Hasi

Yes. There's also the junior novelization telling us that Han forgave his son and hoped one day Ben could forgive him too. And in the adult novelization, before leaving Leia, Han told her that he needed to tell her something important. I believe it's related to Ben.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by SkyStar on Sun 19 Mar - 16:49

@DarthRen wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:I'm loving this conversation, guys.

I agree with Rey projecting her own insecurities and abandonment issues onto Kylo and beating the s**t out of him because of it. It's going to be interesting when she finally finds the truth about her parents: what if she reacts the same way Kylo did back then? What if she rejects her lineage and tries to stay away from them?

I also agree with her disappointment at him. He had a chance to come back to his family and he refused it. It's no coincidence that this is Rey's biggest dream and she watched Han and Kylo's conversation from the front row.
@Piper Maru

It also shows Rey is still very much an innocent. She has a starry eyed image of 'family'; because she's never known what it's like to have family her image of them is one of perfection. She doesn't yet realise that families aren't perfect, that heroes can make bad parents, and because a young man is of a star studded lineage and born to wealth and physical comfort,doesn't mean he had a happy childhood.

I suspect she's in for a rude awakening.

@motherofpearl1

Same can be applied to Luke. Once she realize that he's not this myth, legend, shiny knight that will save everyone. He's old, probably a bit weird and broken man, unwilling to fight and who just stays away from conflict. After all Rey is "the motivator" not only for Kylo. Also for Finn or Luke. This is one of the reasons why i'm against Rey is Skywalker. It's much more interesting for her to be so called "third party" seeing this family feud, imperfect families and relationships. Sort of wake up call for her and valuable life lesson going forward. Rather than being another Skywalker, this offers her to be important in order to sort out Kylo, Luke and others and also unique heritage, yet still interesting and important for plot.
@DarthRen

True, Luke is probably a lonely and broken man. Once he made a decicion that is considered the right decision not to kill his father. Kylo made the wrong decision to kill his.
What could have happened with Luke, if he had chosen to kill his father? Would he ended as lost and confused as Kylo, maybe taking down Palpatine himself.  Would he choose a different path, abandoning the absolutes of Jedi? Having a family of his own.
Not that I think Kylo's actions are to be praised. More that his bad decisions could lead to anything and that does not mean him ending dead or a lonely, broken man. That is the magic of decisions, decisions.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by Hasi on Sun 19 Mar - 17:32

@DarthRen wrote:
Same can be applied to Luke. Once she realize that he's not this myth, legend, shiny knight that will save everyone. He's old, probably a bit weird and broken man, unwilling to fight and who just stays away from conflict. After all Rey is "the motivator" not only for Kylo. Also for Finn or Luke. This is one of the reasons why i'm against Rey is Skywalker. It's much more interesting for her to be so called "third party" seeing this family feud, imperfect families and relationships. Sort of wake up call for her and valuable life lesson going forward. Rather than being another Skywalker, this offers her to be important in order to sort out Kylo, Luke and others and also unique heritage, yet still interesting and important for plot.
@DarthRen

That's my thought too. Rey probably has many expectations about Luke Skywalker, who has always been just a myth for her, and I believe that Luke will end up not meeting her expectations at all.
@Piper Maru wrote:
@Hasi wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:True, Kylo haven't seen his father for God knows how long and then he suddenly shows up asking to drop everything he was working for. We, as an audience know Han and Leia as heroes etc, but for him they are parents who once sent him away. He has only Hans words to consider at that moment and he didn't trust them enough to return.
@SkyStar

Yes, when Kylo tells Rey "Han Solo would've disappointed you" I 100% believe that he really means it, that from his pov his family failed him and he ended up feeling abandoned, disappointed and betrayed by them. And then Han is finally there doing what he should have done before and in the last moment touches his cheek and you know he's asking for forgiveness too, that makes the scene even more tragic.
@Hasi

Yes. There's also the junior novelization telling us that Han forgave his son and hoped one day Ben could forgive him too. And in the adult novelization, before leaving Leia, Han told her that he needed to tell her something important. I believe it's related to Ben.
@Piper Maru

Yes I remember the junior novelisation, imo it was really clear in the movie anyway. Han forgave his son and he hoped for the same on his part and that's all that counts in the story-the people who scream about revenge and killing off Kylo should take a seat already, especially since they only keep misreading the characters, the scenes and completely ignore canon sources that refute their opinions (that counts for Reylo too, but at this point...).

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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by DarthRen on Sun 19 Mar - 17:42

@SkyStar wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:I'm loving this conversation, guys.

I agree with Rey projecting her own insecurities and abandonment issues onto Kylo and beating the s**t out of him because of it. It's going to be interesting when she finally finds the truth about her parents: what if she reacts the same way Kylo did back then? What if she rejects her lineage and tries to stay away from them?

I also agree with her disappointment at him. He had a chance to come back to his family and he refused it. It's no coincidence that this is Rey's biggest dream and she watched Han and Kylo's conversation from the front row.
@Piper Maru

It also shows Rey is still very much an innocent. She has a starry eyed image of 'family'; because she's never known what it's like to have family her image of them is one of perfection. She doesn't yet realise that families aren't perfect, that heroes can make bad parents, and because a young man is of a star studded lineage and born to wealth and physical comfort,doesn't mean he had a happy childhood.

I suspect she's in for a rude awakening.

@motherofpearl1

Same can be applied to Luke. Once she realize that he's not this myth, legend, shiny knight that will save everyone. He's old, probably a bit weird and broken man, unwilling to fight and who just stays away from conflict. After all Rey is "the motivator" not only for Kylo. Also for Finn or Luke. This is one of the reasons why i'm against Rey is Skywalker. It's much more interesting for her to be so called "third party" seeing this family feud, imperfect families and relationships. Sort of wake up call for her and valuable life lesson going forward. Rather than being another Skywalker, this offers her to be important in order to sort out Kylo, Luke and others and also unique heritage, yet still interesting and important for plot.
@DarthRen

True, Luke is probably a lonely and broken man. Once he made a decicion that is considered the right decision not to kill his father. Kylo made the wrong decision to kill his.
What could have happened with Luke, if he had chosen to kill his father? Would he ended as lost and confused as Kylo, maybe taking down Palpatine himself.  Would he choose a different path, abandoning the absolutes of Jedi? Having a family of his own.
Not that I think Kylo's actions are to be praised. More that his bad decisions could lead to anything and that does not mean him ending dead or a lonely, broken man. That is the magic of decisions, decisions.
@SkyStar

I recommend StupendousWave on youtube and they're making theories WHAT IF. What if Darth Vader lived, if Luke joined him. Decisions always have consequences but it contributes where the person ends up.

Especially maybe Luke should've joined Darth Vader and rule galaxy together, as Vader originally wanted. Might have been a better choice than Palpatine who was a pure evil much like Snoke is, Darth Vader broken and lonely. This dynamic is very close to Snoke and Kylo, Palpatine used him and as we know Darth Vader in order to not be replaced killed many other potential candidates for being an apprentice to Palpatine. Much like Snoke wanted to replace Kylo with Rey, telling her in novelization to kill him. I never really hated Darth Vader and later on understand his decisions before prequels, where you realize that he was just a kid, who tried to the right thing from his perspective. I couldn't defend his decisions because he hurt people even Luke, much like Kylo with Rey.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by snufkin on Sun 19 Mar - 18:30

I've joked about it a million times, but if Han in the ST is like Rooster Cogburn in True Grit (down to the pre-production art), Luke is going to be like Kid Sheleen in Cat Ballou



Also I'd hope that what they show with Ben's back story is that his parents/uncle had the best of intentions but that things still got screwed up. Which is very true to life, at least in my experience. Somebody on here posted awhile back about the role/relationships with parents in some of JJ Abrams shows, specifically Lost. Which I haven't watched beyond the first season. But if you've seen The Brothers Bloom and Looper, orphaned children and toxic mentors manipulating their need for a parent is a theme in both movies. The main character in Looper is ultimately driven by the experience of having been abandoned/sold by his drug addict mother as a small child. And the character of Cid is a small child with terrifying telekinetic powers which are driven by his emotions and need to feel safe/loved.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 29 Mar - 17:36

@DarthRen wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:I'm loving this conversation, guys.

I agree with Rey projecting her own insecurities and abandonment issues onto Kylo and beating the s**t out of him because of it. It's going to be interesting when she finally finds the truth about her parents: what if she reacts the same way Kylo did back then? What if she rejects her lineage and tries to stay away from them?

I also agree with her disappointment at him. He had a chance to come back to his family and he refused it. It's no coincidence that this is Rey's biggest dream and she watched Han and Kylo's conversation from the front row.

@Piper Maru

It also shows Rey is still very much an innocent. She has a starry eyed image of 'family'; because she's never known what it's like to have family her image of them is one of perfection. She doesn't yet realise that families aren't perfect, that heroes can make bad parents, and because a young man is of a star studded lineage and born to wealth and physical comfort,doesn't mean he had a happy childhood.

I suspect she's in for a rude awakening.

@motherofpearl1

Same can be applied to Luke. Once she realize that he's not this myth, legend, shiny knight that will save everyone. He's old, probably a bit weird and broken man, unwilling to fight and who just stays away from conflict. After all Rey is "the motivator" not only for Kylo. Also for Finn or Luke. This is one of the reasons why i'm against Rey is Skywalker. It's much more interesting for her to be so called "third party" seeing this family feud, imperfect families and relationships. Sort of wake up call for her and valuable life lesson going forward. Rather than being another Skywalker, this offers her to be important in order to sort out Kylo, Luke and others and also unique heritage, yet still interesting and important for plot.


@DarthRen

Excellent point.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 29 Mar - 17:40

@Hasi wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:True, Kylo haven't seen his father for God knows how long and then he suddenly shows up asking to drop everything he was working for. We, as an audience know Han and Leia as heroes etc, but for him they are parents who once sent him away. He has only Hans words to consider at that moment and he didn't trust them enough to return.
@SkyStar

Yes, when Kylo tells Rey "Han Solo would've disappointed you" I 100% believe that he really means it, that from his pov his family failed him and he ended up feeling abandoned, disappointed and betrayed by them. And then Han is finally there doing what he should have done before and in the last moment touches his cheek and you know he's asking for forgiveness too, that makes the scene even more tragic.
@Hasi

The saddest thing is....Han and Leia loved their son. But they didn't understand him. And their fear of Vader - the man who tortured them - tainted their relationship with their child. They didn't mean to be bad parents but they ran away. Han knew that, and this was what made him truly heroic for me. He recognised he'd failed Ben and tried to rectify it.
And maybe he has.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 11 Apr - 10:04

@Hasi wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:True, Kylo haven't seen his father for God knows how long and then he suddenly shows up asking to drop everything he was working for. We, as an audience know Han and Leia as heroes etc, but for him they are parents who once sent him away. He has only Hans words to consider at that moment and he didn't trust them enough to return.
@SkyStar

Yes, when Kylo tells Rey "Han Solo would've disappointed you" I 100% believe that he really means it, that from his pov his family failed him and he ended up feeling abandoned, disappointed and betrayed by them. And then Han is finally there doing what he should have done before and in the last moment touches his cheek and you know he's asking for forgiveness too, that makes the scene even more tragic.
@Hasi

The junior novel actually mentions that Han's last thoughts were that he forgave his son. And wanted his son to forgive him.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 11 Apr - 17:32

Anyone else think that the beginning of episode viii will have Kylo looking back on his fight with Rey and wondering why in the heck she didn't kill him? I mean, he must be thinking he's pretty lucky that she didn't.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by WhatGirl on Tue 11 Apr - 18:55

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone else think that the beginning of episode viii will have Kylo looking back on his fight with Rey and wondering why in the heck she didn't kill him? I mean, he must be thinking he's pretty lucky that she didn't.
@Cowgirlsamurai

The movie made it seem as though he got spared only because the ground opened up, separating them. So that might not come up. But in the junior novelization she does clearly decide to spare him and he suspects she pities him, which he doesn't like at all.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 16 Apr - 17:21

I find him pitiful and admirable.
Pitiful because he worships a creature who's shown him nothing but cruelty and contempt, and clings to a way of life that is causing him nothing but pain.
Admirable because he has a lot of courage. He's been afraid all his life and he hides it. Whatever reasons he has for doing that it's brave.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by snufkin on Sun 16 Apr - 17:42

@WhatGirl wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone else think that the beginning of episode viii will have Kylo looking back on his fight with Rey and wondering why in the heck she didn't kill him? I mean, he must be thinking he's pretty lucky that she didn't.
@Cowgirlsamurai

The movie made it seem as though he got spared only because the ground opened up, separating them. So that might not come up. But in the junior novelization she does clearly decide to spare him and he suspects she pities him, which he doesn't like at all.
@WhatGirl

That writer really has the best takes on the moments when he removes his mask for Rey and then for Han. Both see him as Ben, he's dropping the persona for them. Rey's first impression is somebody who perceives great problems of the world but none of its simple pleasures and "a student who takes no joy in his studies." Han sees him as starved and sad, meant to mean starved for human/spiritual nourishment as much as physical.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 18 Apr - 15:29

Not sure which thread to put this in but, I watched TFA in Japanese last night and was scrutinizing Kylo's lines for further meaning Smile I'm not a native speaker, so I'll have to watch it a few times to consider all the lines and nuances, but I think they are translated pretty similarly in other foreign language versions of the film. I really like Japanese Kylo's voice I love you

-"What kind of girl/woman?" (What girl?)

-"I've heard about you." (The girl I've heard so much about.)

-"At night, you're afraid to sleep." (At night, desperate to sleep.)

-"I can feel that you're afraid." (Don't be afraid. I feel it too.)

-"It's just the two of us now. Han Solo isn't here anymore." (It's just us now. Han Solo can't save you.)

-"Learn the force! I will guide you!" (You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the force.)


Much of the rest of it is the same. I can't understand the "You're my guest," line in the interrogation at all, but it sounds like something else all together. I'll have to ask my husband tonight. It's interesting, though, that in Japanese they don't like to use the word "You" (or "I") if they can help it, so it is often implied. Like when Kylo says," ... convinced the droid to show it to you. YOU...a scavenger" that "you" get's left out even though it's seems important in the English, but when he says, "I will guide you!" both "you" and "I" are stated in there which gives it a strong pleading tone to me.

Gah! I need to rewatch the Han death scene too. The only lines I remember are "Your son is dead. He was weak so I erased him," and the "Arigato" after the lightsaber's ignited.

I love Japanese dubs. They do a great job picking the actors. Rey's voice is quite deep. I would say deeper than Daisy's.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 18 Apr - 18:02

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Not sure which thread to put this in but, I watched TFA in Japanese last night and was scrutinizing Kylo's lines for further meaning Smile I'm not a native speaker, so I'll have to watch it a few times to consider all the lines and nuances, but I think they are translated pretty similarly in other foreign language versions of the film. I really like Japanese Kylo's voice I love you

-"What kind of girl/woman?" (What girl?)

-"I've heard about you." (The girl I've heard so much about.)

-"At night, you're afraid to sleep." (At night, desperate to sleep.)

-"I can feel that you're afraid." (Don't be afraid. I feel it too.)

-"It's just the two of us now. Han Solo isn't here anymore." (It's just us now. Han Solo can't save you.)

-"Learn the force! I will guide you!" (You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the force.)


Much of the rest of it is the same. I can't understand the "You're my guest," line in the interrogation at all, but it sounds like something else all together. I'll have to ask my husband tonight. It's interesting, though, that in Japanese they don't like to use the word "You" (or "I") if they can help it, so it is often implied. Like when Kylo says," ... convinced the droid to show it to you. YOU...a scavenger" that "you" get's left out even though it's seems important in the English, but when he says, "I will guide you!" both "you" and "I" are stated in there which gives it a strong pleading tone to me.

Gah! I need to rewatch the Han death scene too. The only lines I remember are "Your son is dead. He was weak so I erased him," and the "Arigato" after the lightsaber's ignited.

I love Japanese dubs. They do a great job picking the actors. Rey's voice is quite deep. I would say deeper than Daisy's.
@Cowgirlsamurai

The "it's just the two of us" now translation is interesting. I know that we had some debate here quite a while back as to whether Kylo was referring to himself + Rey or himself + Rey + Finn with the "it's just us now" line. Per the translation, it sounds like Finn isn't even factored into his thoughts there.

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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 18 Apr - 18:22

@ISeeAnIsland

Yeah, and at first I thought, maybe he's talking to Finn, because isn't Finn the one he stalks off into the forest after? (Based on the close up of Finn in the "balcony" just before that.) But Rey's the one who addresses Kylo first when she calls him a monster, so I guess he's responding to that line. Also, he mentions Han, which I would assume he would think Rey would care about, since he found out during the interrogation that she thinks of him as a father figure.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by SkyStar on Sat 29 Apr - 11:46

I found a research thingy from the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law Star Wars: The Force Awakens Forensic Teaching About Patricide  and I don't know have this been discussed yet.

They analyze how Kylo fits into typical characteristics to commit a patricide.

Ben Solo has (metaphorically) characteristics similar to those of other patricide offenders, in that he is a young single male (under 30), has mental illness (typically psychosis), with comorbid alcohol or drug abuse (Dark Side addiction), who stops his treatment (e.g.,leaves training with Luke), and has a history of (potential) legal problems (e.g., violent tendencies resulting in property destruction). The two common characteristics Ben Solo is lacking are being unemployed (after all, he has a steady job with the New Order) and living with his victim.

I find it interesting that they consider that Kylo doesn't seem typical because he feels remorse after killing Han, because usually, patricide comes with a relief. Then again they conclude that as Kylo was delusional when chasing Rey (the surrogate sister/daughter-figure/cousin figure lol), he is still the typical case to give an example.

The screenplay describes Kylo Ren as weakened after the patricide, horrified and in shock. However, in the real world, perpetrators often experience relief and freedom after the murder, rather than remorse: that is, freedom from the often unusual relationship with the father. Relief, rather than remorse, was demonstrated in the film after the patricide since Kylo Ren rather immediately continued to attack others with his father’s ideologies. He also demonstrated how unshakable his beliefs were by encouraging others to share his views over the course of the movie, such as attempting to recruit Rey, the surrogate sister/daughter-figure/cousin, to accept his worldview. In sum, Ben Solo/Kylo Ren can serve as a memorable teacher about patricide, although none of the limited studies of patricide comes from a galaxy far, far away.

But when Kylo sees "It is just us now" he is clearly trying hard to not have a breakdown. That does not seem like a relief to me. And wouldn't it make more sense that in a galaxy far far away him feeling relief after killing his father would have calmed him down? Especially if compared with his behavior at the beginning of the movie where he orders to kill the villagers. I believe if he would have felt relief he would have just ordered someone to kill Rey and Finn not chased them himself.

I just randomly stumbled upon that research and wanted to rant about it somewhere, haha. It just felt so sloppy.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sat 29 Apr - 12:19

Sister/cousin bullsith. I don't take these stuff seriously because it's impossible to apply real world mental illnesses to fictional characters. It's all about analytical psychology, not psychiatry
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 29 Apr - 12:22

The usual 'one size fits all' policy, often applied to the mentally ill; a treatment that works with one patient works with everyone. And it doesn't. Not mocking the mentally ill here, as I'm one.
In regards to Ren, the more I see TFA the more Ren seems to be someone hiding behind a mask - not just the literal one, but a psychological one. He hides his face so no one can see what he's really thinking. I have a very strong feeling he was actually disquieted by the villagers' murder, which is why he spared Finn - he saw himself in him. He was going to pieces post his father's murder, anyone could see that. Whatever he felt after killing Han,it certainly wasn't relief. It saddens me that so many saw his bouts of rage as petulance when they were actually meltdowns.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 29 Apr - 12:23

@motherofpearl1 wrote:The usual 'one size fits all' policy, often applied to the mentally ill; a treatment that works with one patient works with everyone. And it doesn't. Not mocking the mentally ill here, as I'm one.
In regards to Ren, the more I see TFA the more Ren seems to be someone hiding behind a mask - not just the literal one, but a psychological one. He hides his face so no one can see what he's really thinking. I have a very strong feeling he was actually disquieted by the villagers' murder, which is why he spared Finn - he saw himself in him. He was going to pieces post his father's murder, anyone could see that. Whatever he felt after killing Han,it certainly wasn't relief. It saddens me that so many saw his bouts of rage as petulance when they were actually meltdowns.
@motherofpearl1

just quoted myself by mistake!
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by SkyStar on Sat 29 Apr - 12:27

Yeah, they desperately tried to fit him into some kind of box, that is why it is just so sloppy.
Not even doing a proper analysis of the character, just searching how he fits with their desired symptoms and checking them off to fit their desired conclusion.
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Re: What makes Kylo Ren so compelling?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 29 Apr - 12:39

@Maria Antonietta wrote:Sister/cousin bullsith. I don't take these stuff seriously because it's impossible to apply real world mental illnesses to fictional characters. It's all about analytical psychology, not psychiatry
@Maria Antonietta

I have to say, they did a rather good job regarding Kylo, as quite a few mentally ill and abuse survivors identify with him - not with the killings of course, but the psychological damage. Whether it's due to how he's written, or, how AD plays him, it's hard to tell - although I tend to swing more to AD's acting myself.
The 'Han Solo death scene' is the most powerful part of the film, because it's so desperately sad, not just because of the death of an icon but because of the fact that the young man who carried out this horrific act was also a victim. Adam constantly gushes about Harrison here, but I think his performance was equally good.
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