Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

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Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Mon 25 Apr - 11:20

This is an elaborate theory I have come up with about the rise of the FO, Rey's origins and the state of the galaxy in general after one month of getting my hands on every piece of Star Wars canon material out there and this search began because of a quote by Episode IX director Colin Trevorrow-

We’re going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying. Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens, but in the entire galaxy. She deserves it. We’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was something that happened a long time ago, far away, and we’re just telling you what happened.

Now I know many feel that tptb will give the backstory of the characters in the  movies only....and I agree with that to a great extent...but the answer is layered.....they will write a great and satisfactory story for the people who prefer just watching movies...but they'll also have an elaborate layer filled with stuff from related canon materials for those who want to do a little Easter egg hunting. I could be completely wrong but this is what I feel is going to happen.

I'll try to stick to canon materials as much as possible....forgive me if I miss out any characters.
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First, we need to go back to the very beginning from where the canon post-Disney acquisition begins.....

The PT and Clone Wars.

1. During this time, there were a bunch of groups and government bodies....we have the Galactic Republic which uses the Jedi Order as their personal enforcers..



2. There the Separatists (Trade Federation, Banking Clan) led by Count Dooku, who are fighting the republic which they perceive as corrupt. (though they are actually being used by Palpatine)



3. Then there is a third group that existed called the Black Sun (this was EU but was brought into canon through books and TV Shows). This was a powerful underworld syndicate (with their own fighters and interceptor class frigates) which was linked to characters like the Hutt Clan and the Shadow Collective led by Darth Maul. They operated outside the laws of the republic and the separatists were against them since the separatists were against corruption (Count Dooku's main issue with the jedi order was that it condoned corruption in the republic) The Black Sun's income came through illegal activities like the spice trade, kidnapping and slavery. They often employed bounty hunters to do their bidding.



Different sets of characters can be made into three groups based on the stories of this timeline....

1. One was the main political situation with Padme, the Senate and Palpatine fighting Dooku and the Separatists, the Mandalorians including Satine, Bo-Katan, Pre-Viszla and the death watch.
 
2. The second is level 1313, the Hutts, bounty hunters, pirates, Jango and Boba Fett, Asajj Ventress, the black sun, the Nightbrothers and Nightsisters, Darth Maul etc.

3. The third intersects the first two groups - this includes the jedi order and council mainly Obi-wan, Anakin, Qui Gon, Ahsoka, Yoda, Quinlan Vos, Mace Windu, Bariss Ofee....and of course Jar Jar, the droids etc

Now at the end of this trilogy....Dooku is killed...Windu is killed.....order 66 is imposed and most jedi are killed with a few exceptions...according to canon, only four jedi have escaped (though more definitely survived)...they are Obi-wan, Yoda, Caleb Dume (Kanan Jarrus) and Quinlan Vos (who vanishes at this time)....Ahsoka is no longer a jedi but she too has vanished...the galactic republic falls and the Empire rises...the separatists are all slaughtered by Anakin/Vader on Musafaar.......Luke and Leia are adopted....Satine is dead, Pre-Viszla is dead.....Darth Maul lives though many nightbrothers and all the nightsisters are now dead.
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The OT and the Rebels

The groups change...

1. There is the rebel alliance.....one of the founding members is Bail Organa, foster father of Leia Organa.. This group is led by Mon Mothma and have a starbird as it's symbol. The history of the symbol isn't canon so won't go into it.



2. Then there is the Empire led by Palpatine who is advised by moffs and has both a strong military as well as force sensitives working for him like Vader and the inquisitors (some known to be former jedi and jedi temple guards). This group also includes scientists like Cylo who are into cloning and other genetic experiments in the outer rim and unknown regions. We also have imperials with crazy visions like Brendol Hux who want to train obedient soldiers from infancy running Imperial Academies based all over the galaxy.




3. The Black Sun is not part of the Empire but it lends material support to the Empire for its ventures including building the Death Star. It is still running an elaborate slave trafficking and kidnapping network. Their symbol remains the same.


The characters can be divided into three groups.......

1. One is the Empire, Palpatine, Vader, Tarkin and other Moffs, the Inquisitors, the Imperial military and Intelligence, Cylo, Ciena Ree, Brendol Hux, Admiral Rae Sloane, the Commandant's cadets, Araknis Academy etc

2. The second is the rebels including Mon Mothma, Admiral Ackbar, Princess Leia, R2D2, C-3P0, Chopper, Evaan Verlaine, Kes Dameron, Shara Bey, the red wings etc

3. The third is the Hutts, bounty hunters, pirates, Boba Fett, the Black Sun, Doctor Aphra, Ketsu Onyo, Darth Maul etc.

4. There is a fourth group who mix with the other three or don't mix with any- Han (former Imperial who turned smuggler turned rebel general), Lando, Chewie, Sabine Wren (former bounty hunter who turns rebel), Luke (wanted to be an imperial became a jedi and rebel), Obi-wan and Yoda (live as hermits and don't mix much with others), Kanan (ranger, bounty hunter...later jedi and rebel) and Ezra (into theft and scavenging but later a padawan and rebel), Zane and Dhara Leonis (imperial cadets who escape back to the rebels), the Ewoks, AP-5 (former imperial droid turned rebel)

I'm not including Jyn Erso and Cassein Willix till we know their story in Rogue One...though I suspect it is a re-telling of Dark Forces (Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors) and we will see them in more adventures.

Luke trains to be a jedi......Obi-wan Dies...death star blows up.......Vader realizes he has a son.....Vader also realizes Palpatine is looking for alternate apprentices as Vader is getting older so he wants to find a way to kill Palpatine and rule the galaxy with Luke.....Ahsoka is not a jedi but a part of the rebels as Fulcrum and recruits others....Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka find Malachor and Maul....Kanan is blinded, Ahsoka may or may not be alive, Ezra has kept the holocron and Maul is in pursuit of Ezra........ there is a huge black market of jedi and sith artifacts....Han is pursued by Sana Starros........force related religions are banned but underground movements like the chucrch of the force continue......Luke falls in love with Nakari Kelen but she is killed......Leia and Han fall in love........Han captured in Bespin, frozen and taken to Jabba by Boba Fett.....Luke loses a hand and legacy lightsaber....Leia kills Jabba...Bobba Fett falls into Sarlac pit...Luke confronts Vader and Emperor.....Vader kills Palpatine and dies redeemed......The rebels prevail...operation cinder takes place and Naboo gets bombed but Leia and her friends save the day.....the battle of Jakku is the final battle......the republic returns and the Imperials retreat to the outer rim and unknown regions....the Black Sun also retreats at this point of time.....Shara and Kes leave the rebels to spend time with Poe, taking a force tree with them....Chewie returns to Kashykk to live with his wife Malla and their son.
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There is an interim period of time we don't know much about but one thing we do know is that the former Imperials have returned as the FO...now let us look at their Symbol.....



It is a mix of the symbols of the Separatists, the Empire and the Black Sun (inverted). I take it as symbolically meaning that the Black Sun has merged into the remnants of the Empire to form the FO. They are led by Snoke and they begin to kidnap kids (as Black Sun used to do) for their storm trooper program (courtesy Brendol Hux).
The Republic has been largely De-militarised, Han and Leia marry,  Leia has had a successful political career, Han has a shipping business and is out most of the time....they have Ben......there is growing disillusionment between the older and younger generation of politicians and the younger ones want to return to the old Empire.....Luke is away re-building his order....Ben is sent to train with Luke and he still seems to be there at age 23.
_______________________

ST

Like the PT had Clone Wars and OT had Rebels (which will only have one more season)....I am sure that the ST will have a TV Show linked to it... and I feel it will be a live show this time.

The idea of a live action show (Star Wars:Underworld) was pitched as far back as 2005 and more than 400 stories were written for it but they couldn't do it due to budget issues....some of the stories have been used in Rebels regarding smuggling, bounty hunters etc.....and some of them will be used for the upcoming anthology films- Han Solo and Boba Fett. But that still leaves many stories....and there is a rumor that one of the canon book characters will potentially be appearing in the TV show. Based on a sketch by Dave Filoni, I feel that they will announce a gritty Netflix TV show about the underworld in the Star Wars Galaxy with Darth Maul and his Shadow Collective, Bo-Katan and the Night Watch and Quinlan Vos (who was a sentinel jedi who specialized in fighting the crime syndicates of the galaxy). There has been news on and off about discussions betnween Disney/LF and Netflix to air such a show since late last year.

Dave Filoni's Sketch

Okay.....back to the ST.....we know that Rey was 5 or younger when she was dumped in Jakku..... Finn was a compassionate but high achieving storm trooper who doesn't know his past and was terrified of the FO till the end of TFA,..... Ben has become an FO enforcer named Kylo for whatever reason and wants to move towards the dark side again for reasons unknown....Poe's mother died of unknown reasons when he was 8 and he became a pilot for the republic..... he later found her diaries talking about her role in the Rebellion and joins to work for Leia (I think Poe is trying to learn about his family as well) ....Han is smuggling again and in debt.....King Prana has got him into trouble with other gangs because he delayed in a rathar shipment......Leia faces threats to her life and is seen as a warmonger.....the FO returns and blows up the new republic's seat of power......Lando has vanished....Luke's order is destroyed by an apprentice (we assume it is Ben for now)....Luke has vanished....Bobba Fett lives (we see his armour has been retrieved...he escaped the sarlac pit).... Sidon Ithano the pirate has located a clone medic kept in stasis and the lost droid factories and other resources of the separatists (hopefully he will use it to help the rebels)....Constable Zuivo on Jakku discovers money being stolen from their banks (probably to fund the FO)

This is what we know of the ages of the new characters in TFA:

Rey- 19
Finn-23
Ben-29
Poe-32
Hux-34

Now here is what I feel is happening......there were three enemies to the republic in the PT- the separatists, the criminal underworld and Palpatine (from within). In the OT, the rebels had two enemies- the Empire and the criminal underworld (black sun, hutts etc). Finally, the enemies have united into one group i.e. the FO....so I think the story lines are going to merge in this trilogy. The anthology stories will cover any characters we see briefly in movies and other materials and this will help tie up any loose ends. And if they have any sequel after this trilogy, it will be some enemy from outside the galaxy like the Vuzhang Vong.
_________________

Finally to Rey's origins.... I am torn between two characters but I feel one has a better chance of being her relative....and that is Quinlan Vos (who is a Kiffar). To regular viewers she will be Rey Random and there is no need to go into her family history but for old fans, it would mean bringing a very popular character's family life out of the EU and into canon.

Now I know a lot of people's immediate reaction is that it is not possible and I could be wrong....but here is why I feel he is the strongest candidate to be her grandfather-

1. Rey's Powers:

Psychometry: Rey's force-backs show she has this ability and it is a rare ability so far only displayed in canon by Vos (and normally by other Kiffar in the EU). Psychometry allows a person to touch objects and see the memories of people who handled the object, sense their emotions and even gain their abilities. She touches the Millennium Falcon and flies it like  pro. She focuses while holding the legacy lightsaber and she is able to fight in the same style as Anakin/Vader...which coincidentally is the same style Kylo uses. She touches Kylo's wrist during her fight when pushing his saber into the snow and she hears Snoke speaking to her shortly after.

Also, it has been said in canon that touching lightsabers was not permitted by the jedi council as the FS could absorb the nature of the previous user....her force vision did warn her about being tempted by the dark side.

Mind Trick: Obi-wan is good at the mind trick but so is Quinlan Vos. He uses it to put thoughts in people's mind without even verbal suggestion and he even wipes thoughts out of people's minds with a slight hand gesture. He even made two jedi kill each other using the mind trick.

Telekinesis: There is a rumor Rey uses telekinesis to lift a vehicle in episode 8. Again force throws and telekinesis are two powers Vos uses a lot.

2. Personality:

Rey is lonely and longs for family.....everybody who meets her loves her. Quinlan was sent to work on assignments alone, but loved being with those he considered family (initially the jedis at the temple and later Ventress ) and he was universally liked.

3. Ethnicity:

The casting was blind when it came to race....if you look at the character, Quinlan is ethnically ambiguous......  now let us look back to LF's first attempt to cast Quinlan Vos for the TV Show....they were in talks with Jason Momoa (Hawaiian, German, Irish, Native-American descent)....so basically a girl of any ethnicity could play Rey without any issue....also Quinlan Vos has dark hair and brown eyes, just like Rey.

4. The Obi-wan Connection:

Like Anakin, Quinlan Vos was Obi-wan's close friend. In the EU, they even grew up together like brothers. So it would make sense for Obi-wan to give guidance to his close friend's descendant in her vision.

Like Obi-wan he became a jedi master at a very young age. He also makes a brief appearance in The Phantom Menace in the scene where Obi-wan and Qui Gon meet Anakin for the first time.



5. The Dark Side Connection:

Like Anakin, Quinlan spent time as a dark jedi (Admiral Enigma) and almost became a sith. He worked for Count Dooku but finally returned to the light side, but not before causing a lot of harm and killing his best friend using the jedi mind trick. He is as comfortable with the dark side as he is with the light side of the force. Only Mace Windu shares this trait.

6. Sentimental and loved kids:

In the canon novel, he sticks to being a jedi...but when he gets attached he decides he would prefer a formal relationship and wants to leave the jedi order. Also, the novel mentions many instances of how he gets along with the padawans and younglings at the jedi temple, how children care for him and him for them etc......nothing in SW lore has been kept without a reason... while the novel is filled with descriptions of his affection for kids, conversely we have statements of his LI that she is sad she will never hold a child....and she dies Sad

7. Order 66:

Vos was originally supposed to die under order 66 but they specifically changed the story and left his fate ambiguous. Since he always was a grey jedi, he could easily have got into a relationship and had a child (like he did in the EU where his first love was killed by Dooku and he married his second love)

8. Ventress's vision:

He has a near identical scene to the Musafaar one in ROTS between Anakin, Obi-wan and Padme.....however, in this scene, Vos wants to kill Dooku and become a sith so he can have a peaceful life with Ventress....Obi-wan is there to kill him...but Ventress gets a vision which reminded me of Colin's Trevorrow's statement. Here is the extract-

All at once, warmth flooded through her. It was as if she were being bathed with soft light. It washed away the pain, and the fear, and the anger, leaving only perfect clarity in its wake. Ventress realized that it was the Force, but it had never felt like this. And it was giving her a gift.
Time slowed to a crawl as a sudden, calm sense of knowing permeated her. She saw, all at once, every possible outcome of the turn of this fraction of a second. Every convolution, every manifestation, every repercussion that would echo far into the future. Death, and life, and new chances lay down one path. The restoration of balance. Fear and disaster, an existence that could never be called living but merely crawling about in a shell of flesh that had no spark of joy—that, too, could be the future; burning vengeance that only increased the hunger for more.
She had just told Vos that he had a choice about what path he wished to walk, and the Force was revealing to her the outcome of her own choices, now, this moment, this instant, this breath.
Ventress chose.


Dooku tried to kill Vos with force lightning but Ventress pushes him out of the way and gets killed. She knew that she had to die for a certain outcome of events leading to the restoration of balance in the force far in the future....her death made Vos return to the light and promise to fight against the dark side. Because of her sacrifice and his subsequent decision, instead of killing or maiming him like what happened to Anakin, Obi-wan comforts him.

9. Rey being dumped on Jakku:

Vos was strongly against slavery, and had a lot of enemies as a result of his fight against this practice. His apprentice Aayla Secura was a slave he discovered and saved. It would make sense for his enemies to kidnap his grand daughter and leave her to die as a slave on a desert planet (and maybe even kill the rest of the family) in an act of revenge.

10. TFA Novel Easter Egg:

On Jakku Rey observes a woman with turquoise blue clan markings and a purple outfit with a child. Blue markings of that sort are worn by Kiffars from Clan Konshi in the EU. (not the same tribe as Vos though) If they go by the EU, she would belong to the Vos clan who are guardians rulers of two planets.

I feel Ben and Rey's relationship was long fated by the force if my theory holds true. Their grandfathers were on Tatooine when the story began....both grandfathers were young prodigies....went to the dark side and got redeemed....Obi-wan is the common factor in both their lives from an early age....there are just too many similarities to ignore.....and it makes sense when the various evil elements have united into the FO, that descendants of two characters who walked both on the light and dark side of the force fight it....probably walking a grey area themselves.


Last edited by panki on Tue 26 Apr - 13:13; edited 4 times in total

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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by Search Your Feelings on Tue 26 Apr - 5:49

I"ll place this here as well...

Regarding Rey's parentage:

I'm open to all options (except Skywalker and Solo) but I'm more partial to Obiwan/darksiders. It wouldn't take that much explaining in the ST, just a couple lines that Obiwan had a Mandalorian love during his younger years when he was a Padawan. They can explore this more fully in a Kenobi spinoff to give his movie romance material.

Besides, I'm not that surprised Obiwan strayed from the Jedi path a bit because he had Qui-Gon Jinn as his master who seemed to be more on the outskirts of the Jedi dogma. Obiwan was also communing with his master during his exile.

Maybe Rey is a Jinn lol.
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Tue 26 Apr - 5:58

Search Your Feelings wrote:I"ll place this here as well...

Regarding Rey's parentage:

I'm open to all options (except Skywalker and Solo) but I'm more partial to Obiwan/darksiders.  It wouldn't take that much explaining in the ST, just a couple lines that Obiwan had a Mandalorian love during his younger years when he was a Padawan.  They can explore this more fully in a Kenobi spinoff to give his movie romance material.

Besides, I'm not that surprised Obiwan strayed from the Jedi path a bit because he had Qui-Gon Jinn as his master who seemed to be more on the outskirts of the Jedi dogma.  Obiwan was also communing with his master during his exile.  

Maybe Rey is a Jinn lol.
@Search Your Feelings

Actually obi-wan is my second choice but I felt he doesn't work out for a couple of reasons (I could be wrong)....I'm open to the possibility that he and Satine had a child (possibly Korkie Kryze?) and Rey being a descendant but there is no indication in the canon material till now that Obi-wan broke the jedi code and got into a relationship after that. He is literally called a hermit and a wizard, and he refers to himself as a jedi. And I don't imagine him as a guy who had a one night stand at the cantina (made enough fun of reywalkers for that theory). Also, Rey's propensity to the dark side cannot be explained looking at Obi-wan....he has shown anger but never gone to the dark side.....even when Dooku captured him and wanted to make him an apprentice.

Qui Gon.....who knows? It is possible....I just don't have any information on him in the canon material.....except for phantom menace and the clone wars episodes.

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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by Search Your Feelings on Tue 26 Apr - 6:26

panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:I"ll place this here as well...

Regarding Rey's parentage:

I'm open to all options (except Skywalker and Solo) but I'm more partial to Obiwan/darksiders.  It wouldn't take that much explaining in the ST, just a couple lines that Obiwan had a Mandalorian love during his younger years when he was a Padawan.  They can explore this more fully in a Kenobi spinoff to give his movie romance material.

Besides, I'm not that surprised Obiwan strayed from the Jedi path a bit because he had Qui-Gon Jinn as his master who seemed to be more on the outskirts of the Jedi dogma.  Obiwan was also communing with his master during his exile.  

Maybe Rey is a Jinn lol.
@Search Your Feelings

Actually obi-wan is my second choice but I felt he doesn't work out for a couple of reasons (I could be wrong)....I'm open to the possibility that he and Satine had a child (possibly Korkie Kryze?) and Rey being a descendant but there is no indication in the canon material till now that Obi-wan broke the jedi code and got into a relationship after that. He is literally called a hermit and a wizard, and he refers to himself as a jedi. And I don't imagine him as a guy who had a one night stand at the cantina (made enough fun of reywalkers for that theory). Also, Rey's propensity to the dark side cannot be explained looking at Obi-wan....he has shown anger but never gone to the dark side.....even when Dooku captured him and wanted to make him an apprentice.

Qui Gon.....who knows? It is possible....I just don't have any information on him in the canon material.....except for phantom menace and the clone wars episodes.
@panki

Yeah, I remember you(?) posting an image of Korkie (what a name) Kryze and it looked very much like Obiwan+Satine. And Satine being a born leader would understand that telling him about his son would take him away from his duties and path as a Jedi.

I agree, Obiwan was such a noble Jedi that I can see it's hard to imagine him, especially in his exile, straying from it but I also don't think he was perfect when he was younger.

They can explore the following in a Kenobi spinoff :
ESB
Yoda: Much anger in him... like his father.
Obi-Wan: [voice] Was I any different when you taught me?

Impulsive, angry Padawan (possibly like Rey?) whose only love of his life was Satine. Only, Rey doesn't have someone like Yoda around to school her away from the darkside. I'm open to any parentage (darksiders would be interesting) but to me there are a lot of hints pointing to a Kenobi. I'm just waiting for Pablo or tptb to debunk it Laughing
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Tue 26 Apr - 6:33

Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:I"ll place this here as well...

Regarding Rey's parentage:

I'm open to all options (except Skywalker and Solo) but I'm more partial to Obiwan/darksiders.  It wouldn't take that much explaining in the ST, just a couple lines that Obiwan had a Mandalorian love during his younger years when he was a Padawan.  They can explore this more fully in a Kenobi spinoff to give his movie romance material.

Besides, I'm not that surprised Obiwan strayed from the Jedi path a bit because he had Qui-Gon Jinn as his master who seemed to be more on the outskirts of the Jedi dogma.  Obiwan was also communing with his master during his exile.  

Maybe Rey is a Jinn lol.
@Search Your Feelings

Actually obi-wan is my second choice but I felt he doesn't work out for a couple of reasons (I could be wrong)....I'm open to the possibility that he and Satine had a child (possibly Korkie Kryze?) and Rey being a descendant but there is no indication in the canon material till now that Obi-wan broke the jedi code and got into a relationship after that. He is literally called a hermit and a wizard, and he refers to himself as a jedi. And I don't imagine him as a guy who had a one night stand at the cantina (made enough fun of reywalkers for that theory). Also, Rey's propensity to the dark side cannot be explained looking at Obi-wan....he has shown anger but never gone to the dark side.....even when Dooku captured him and wanted to make him an apprentice.

Qui Gon.....who knows? It is possible....I just don't have any information on him in the canon material.....except for phantom menace and the clone wars episodes.
@panki

Yeah, I remember you(?) posting an image of Korkie (what a name) Kryze and it looked very much like Obiwan+Satine.   And Satine being a born leader would understand that telling him about his son would take him away from his duties and path as a Jedi.  

I agree, Obiwan was such a noble Jedi that I can see it's hard to imagine him, especially in his exile, straying from it but I also don't think he was perfect when he was younger.  

They can explore the following in a Kenobi spinoff :
ESB
Yoda: Much anger in him... like his father.
Obi-Wan: [voice] Was I any different when you taught me?

Impulsive, angry Padawan (possibly like Rey?) whose only love of his life was Satine.  Only, Rey doesn't have someone like Yoda around to school her away from the darkside. I'm open to any parentage (darksiders would be interesting) but to me there are a lot of hints pointing to a Kenobi.  I'm just waiting for Pablo or tptb to debunk it Laughing
@Search Your Feelings

I am actually waiting for a couple of announcements from Disney/LF to be more convinced of Rey's parentage.....if they announce an Obi-wan trilogy or even a movie, then I'll lean towards Obi-wan is Rey's grandfather.....if they make Star Wars: Underworld into a TV show, then I'll be more convinced that Quinlan Vos is her grandfather....and if they make neither or both, I'll be confused. Razz

So far having a young Han Solo movie (his days as a smuggler and spice trader) and a Boba Fett movie shows they're leaning towards showing stories of the Star Wars underworld, level 1313 and bounty hunters.....but anything is still possible.

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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by Search Your Feelings on Tue 26 Apr - 7:02

panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:I"ll place this here as well...

Regarding Rey's parentage:

I'm open to all options (except Skywalker and Solo) but I'm more partial to Obiwan/darksiders.  It wouldn't take that much explaining in the ST, just a couple lines that Obiwan had a Mandalorian love during his younger years when he was a Padawan.  They can explore this more fully in a Kenobi spinoff to give his movie romance material.

Besides, I'm not that surprised Obiwan strayed from the Jedi path a bit because he had Qui-Gon Jinn as his master who seemed to be more on the outskirts of the Jedi dogma.  Obiwan was also communing with his master during his exile.  

Maybe Rey is a Jinn lol.
@Search Your Feelings

Actually obi-wan is my second choice but I felt he doesn't work out for a couple of reasons (I could be wrong)....I'm open to the possibility that he and Satine had a child (possibly Korkie Kryze?) and Rey being a descendant but there is no indication in the canon material till now that Obi-wan broke the jedi code and got into a relationship after that. He is literally called a hermit and a wizard, and he refers to himself as a jedi. And I don't imagine him as a guy who had a one night stand at the cantina (made enough fun of reywalkers for that theory). Also, Rey's propensity to the dark side cannot be explained looking at Obi-wan....he has shown anger but never gone to the dark side.....even when Dooku captured him and wanted to make him an apprentice.

Qui Gon.....who knows? It is possible....I just don't have any information on him in the canon material.....except for phantom menace and the clone wars episodes.
@panki

Yeah, I remember you(?) posting an image of Korkie (what a name) Kryze and it looked very much like Obiwan+Satine.   And Satine being a born leader would understand that telling him about his son would take him away from his duties and path as a Jedi.  

I agree, Obiwan was such a noble Jedi that I can see it's hard to imagine him, especially in his exile, straying from it but I also don't think he was perfect when he was younger.  

They can explore the following in a Kenobi spinoff :
ESB
Yoda: Much anger in him... like his father.
Obi-Wan: [voice] Was I any different when you taught me?

Impulsive, angry Padawan (possibly like Rey?) whose only love of his life was Satine.  Only, Rey doesn't have someone like Yoda around to school her away from the darkside. I'm open to any parentage (darksiders would be interesting) but to me there are a lot of hints pointing to a Kenobi.  I'm just waiting for Pablo or tptb to debunk it Laughing
@Search Your Feelings

I am actually waiting for a couple of announcements from Disney/LF to be more convinced of Rey's parentage.....if they announce an Obi-wan trilogy or even a movie, then I'll lean towards Obi-wan is Rey's grandfather.....if they make Star Wars: Underworld into a TV show, then I'll be more convinced that Quinlan Vos is her grandfather....and if they make neither or both, I'll be confused. Razz

So far having a young Han Solo movie (his days as a smuggler and spice trader) and a Boba Fett movie shows they're leaning towards showing stories of the Star Wars underworld, level 1313 and bounty hunters.....but anything is still possible.
@panki

I'm 95% sure they are going to make a Kenobi spinoff while Ewan McGregor is still around and willing! They called him into TFA to record and modified old Obiwan's words to say "Rey", Obiwan and Kylo were the only ones to address her directly in the forceback and they wanted his character to be somehow involved in Rey's life. I would love to see SW:Underworld in a TV series (the cinematography looked amazing from what I saw of the underbelly of Coruscant) but Vos is not as well known to the GA as Obiwan so I'm thinking they probably won't bring him into the ST.
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Tue 26 Apr - 7:21

Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:I"ll place this here as well...

Regarding Rey's parentage:

I'm open to all options (except Skywalker and Solo) but I'm more partial to Obiwan/darksiders.  It wouldn't take that much explaining in the ST, just a couple lines that Obiwan had a Mandalorian love during his younger years when he was a Padawan.  They can explore this more fully in a Kenobi spinoff to give his movie romance material.

Besides, I'm not that surprised Obiwan strayed from the Jedi path a bit because he had Qui-Gon Jinn as his master who seemed to be more on the outskirts of the Jedi dogma.  Obiwan was also communing with his master during his exile.  

Maybe Rey is a Jinn lol.
@Search Your Feelings

Actually obi-wan is my second choice but I felt he doesn't work out for a couple of reasons (I could be wrong)....I'm open to the possibility that he and Satine had a child (possibly Korkie Kryze?) and Rey being a descendant but there is no indication in the canon material till now that Obi-wan broke the jedi code and got into a relationship after that. He is literally called a hermit and a wizard, and he refers to himself as a jedi. And I don't imagine him as a guy who had a one night stand at the cantina (made enough fun of reywalkers for that theory). Also, Rey's propensity to the dark side cannot be explained looking at Obi-wan....he has shown anger but never gone to the dark side.....even when Dooku captured him and wanted to make him an apprentice.

Qui Gon.....who knows? It is possible....I just don't have any information on him in the canon material.....except for phantom menace and the clone wars episodes.
@panki

Yeah, I remember you(?) posting an image of Korkie (what a name) Kryze and it looked very much like Obiwan+Satine.   And Satine being a born leader would understand that telling him about his son would take him away from his duties and path as a Jedi.  

I agree, Obiwan was such a noble Jedi that I can see it's hard to imagine him, especially in his exile, straying from it but I also don't think he was perfect when he was younger.  

They can explore the following in a Kenobi spinoff :
ESB
Yoda: Much anger in him... like his father.
Obi-Wan: [voice] Was I any different when you taught me?

Impulsive, angry Padawan (possibly like Rey?) whose only love of his life was Satine.  Only, Rey doesn't have someone like Yoda around to school her away from the darkside. I'm open to any parentage (darksiders would be interesting) but to me there are a lot of hints pointing to a Kenobi.  I'm just waiting for Pablo or tptb to debunk it Laughing
@Search Your Feelings

I am actually waiting for a couple of announcements from Disney/LF to be more convinced of Rey's parentage.....if they announce an Obi-wan trilogy or even a movie, then I'll lean towards Obi-wan is Rey's grandfather.....if they make Star Wars: Underworld into a TV show, then I'll be more convinced that Quinlan Vos is her grandfather....and if they make neither or both, I'll be confused. Razz

So far having a young Han Solo movie (his days as a smuggler and spice trader) and a Boba Fett movie shows they're leaning towards showing stories of the Star Wars underworld, level 1313 and bounty hunters.....but anything is still possible.
@panki

I'm 95% sure they are going to make a Kenobi spinoff while Ewan McGregor is still around and willing!  They called him into TFA to record and modified old Obiwan's words to say "Rey", Obiwan and Kylo were the only ones to address her directly in the forceback and they wanted his character to be somehow involved in Rey's life.  I would love to see SW:Underworld in a TV series (the cinematography looked amazing from what I saw of the underbelly of Coruscant) but Vos is not as well known to the GA as Obiwan so I'm thinking they probably won't bring him into the ST.
@Search Your Feelings

I've read news reports of Disney/LF being in talks for both the Obi-wan and the TV show as well since last year.....but no announcement has been made either way....I imagine we'll hear something about either of them only towards the end of this year or early 2017 when the SW Rebels show is ending.

They don't need to bring Vos into the ST....if they have the TV show, people would recognize him from it....look at their sister concern Marvel......Agent Coulson and Agent Carter etc have appeared mainly in the TV show but briefly in the movie....while Nick Fury and Maria Hill appear primarily in movies but make cameo appearences in the TV Show......so they can mainly show Quinlan Vos on TV and have the same character in a brief flashback in the ST.....the GA would then easily recognize him.

Quinlan Vos has a very big fanbase among old fans.....there has to be some reason they decided to bring him into canon, didn't show him dying under order 66, kept mentioning the fact that he is fond of kids (and them of him) in the recent novel about him and emphasized his need for a family (finding it first in the jedi order and later wanting a permanent romantic relationship).

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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by Search Your Feelings on Tue 26 Apr - 18:13

panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:I"ll place this here as well...

Regarding Rey's parentage:

I'm open to all options (except Skywalker and Solo) but I'm more partial to Obiwan/darksiders.  It wouldn't take that much explaining in the ST, just a couple lines that Obiwan had a Mandalorian love during his younger years when he was a Padawan.  They can explore this more fully in a Kenobi spinoff to give his movie romance material.

Besides, I'm not that surprised Obiwan strayed from the Jedi path a bit because he had Qui-Gon Jinn as his master who seemed to be more on the outskirts of the Jedi dogma.  Obiwan was also communing with his master during his exile.  

Maybe Rey is a Jinn lol.
@Search Your Feelings

Actually obi-wan is my second choice but I felt he doesn't work out for a couple of reasons (I could be wrong)....I'm open to the possibility that he and Satine had a child (possibly Korkie Kryze?) and Rey being a descendant but there is no indication in the canon material till now that Obi-wan broke the jedi code and got into a relationship after that. He is literally called a hermit and a wizard, and he refers to himself as a jedi. And I don't imagine him as a guy who had a one night stand at the cantina (made enough fun of reywalkers for that theory). Also, Rey's propensity to the dark side cannot be explained looking at Obi-wan....he has shown anger but never gone to the dark side.....even when Dooku captured him and wanted to make him an apprentice.

Qui Gon.....who knows? It is possible....I just don't have any information on him in the canon material.....except for phantom menace and the clone wars episodes.
@panki

Yeah, I remember you(?) posting an image of Korkie (what a name) Kryze and it looked very much like Obiwan+Satine.   And Satine being a born leader would understand that telling him about his son would take him away from his duties and path as a Jedi.  

I agree, Obiwan was such a noble Jedi that I can see it's hard to imagine him, especially in his exile, straying from it but I also don't think he was perfect when he was younger.  

They can explore the following in a Kenobi spinoff :
ESB
Yoda: Much anger in him... like his father.
Obi-Wan: [voice] Was I any different when you taught me?

Impulsive, angry Padawan (possibly like Rey?) whose only love of his life was Satine.  Only, Rey doesn't have someone like Yoda around to school her away from the darkside. I'm open to any parentage (darksiders would be interesting) but to me there are a lot of hints pointing to a Kenobi.  I'm just waiting for Pablo or tptb to debunk it Laughing
@Search Your Feelings

I am actually waiting for a couple of announcements from Disney/LF to be more convinced of Rey's parentage.....if they announce an Obi-wan trilogy or even a movie, then I'll lean towards Obi-wan is Rey's grandfather.....if they make Star Wars: Underworld into a TV show, then I'll be more convinced that Quinlan Vos is her grandfather....and if they make neither or both, I'll be confused. Razz

So far having a young Han Solo movie (his days as a smuggler and spice trader) and a Boba Fett movie shows they're leaning towards showing stories of the Star Wars underworld, level 1313 and bounty hunters.....but anything is still possible.
@panki

I'm 95% sure they are going to make a Kenobi spinoff while Ewan McGregor is still around and willing!  They called him into TFA to record and modified old Obiwan's words to say "Rey", Obiwan and Kylo were the only ones to address her directly in the forceback and they wanted his character to be somehow involved in Rey's life.  I would love to see SW:Underworld in a TV series (the cinematography looked amazing from what I saw of the underbelly of Coruscant) but Vos is not as well known to the GA as Obiwan so I'm thinking they probably won't bring him into the ST.
@Search Your Feelings

I've read news reports of Disney/LF being in talks for both the Obi-wan and the TV show as well since last year.....but no announcement has been made either way....I imagine we'll hear something about either of them only towards the end of this year or early 2017 when the SW Rebels show is ending.

They don't need to bring Vos into the ST....if they have the TV show, people would recognize him from it....look at their sister concern Marvel......Agent Coulson and Agent Carter etc have appeared mainly in the TV show but briefly in the movie....while Nick Fury and Maria Hill appear primarily in movies but make cameo appearences in the TV Show......so they can mainly show Quinlan Vos on TV and have the same character in a brief flashback in the ST.....the GA would then easily recognize him.

Quinlan Vos has a very big fanbase among old fans.....there has to be some reason they decided to bring him into canon, didn't show him dying under order 66, kept mentioning the fact that he is fond of kids (and them of him) in the recent novel about him and emphasized his need for a family (finding it first in the jedi order and later wanting a permanent romantic relationship).
@panki

Oh, I meant bringing him into the ST by connecting him to Rey. You make good points about the possibility of Vos being primed to be related to Rey and I'm open to other speculations. I haven't read the novel on him so I'm not that familiar with him. What are your thoughts on why Rey was left on Jakku if Rey is a Vos?
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Tue 26 Apr - 18:29

Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
panki wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:I"ll place this here as well...

Regarding Rey's parentage:

I'm open to all options (except Skywalker and Solo) but I'm more partial to Obiwan/darksiders.  It wouldn't take that much explaining in the ST, just a couple lines that Obiwan had a Mandalorian love during his younger years when he was a Padawan.  They can explore this more fully in a Kenobi spinoff to give his movie romance material.

Besides, I'm not that surprised Obiwan strayed from the Jedi path a bit because he had Qui-Gon Jinn as his master who seemed to be more on the outskirts of the Jedi dogma.  Obiwan was also communing with his master during his exile.  

Maybe Rey is a Jinn lol.
@Search Your Feelings

Actually obi-wan is my second choice but I felt he doesn't work out for a couple of reasons (I could be wrong)....I'm open to the possibility that he and Satine had a child (possibly Korkie Kryze?) and Rey being a descendant but there is no indication in the canon material till now that Obi-wan broke the jedi code and got into a relationship after that. He is literally called a hermit and a wizard, and he refers to himself as a jedi. And I don't imagine him as a guy who had a one night stand at the cantina (made enough fun of reywalkers for that theory). Also, Rey's propensity to the dark side cannot be explained looking at Obi-wan....he has shown anger but never gone to the dark side.....even when Dooku captured him and wanted to make him an apprentice.

Qui Gon.....who knows? It is possible....I just don't have any information on him in the canon material.....except for phantom menace and the clone wars episodes.
@panki

Yeah, I remember you(?) posting an image of Korkie (what a name) Kryze and it looked very much like Obiwan+Satine.   And Satine being a born leader would understand that telling him about his son would take him away from his duties and path as a Jedi.  

I agree, Obiwan was such a noble Jedi that I can see it's hard to imagine him, especially in his exile, straying from it but I also don't think he was perfect when he was younger.  

They can explore the following in a Kenobi spinoff :
ESB
Yoda: Much anger in him... like his father.
Obi-Wan: [voice] Was I any different when you taught me?

Impulsive, angry Padawan (possibly like Rey?) whose only love of his life was Satine.  Only, Rey doesn't have someone like Yoda around to school her away from the darkside. I'm open to any parentage (darksiders would be interesting) but to me there are a lot of hints pointing to a Kenobi.  I'm just waiting for Pablo or tptb to debunk it Laughing
@Search Your Feelings

I am actually waiting for a couple of announcements from Disney/LF to be more convinced of Rey's parentage.....if they announce an Obi-wan trilogy or even a movie, then I'll lean towards Obi-wan is Rey's grandfather.....if they make Star Wars: Underworld into a TV show, then I'll be more convinced that Quinlan Vos is her grandfather....and if they make neither or both, I'll be confused. Razz

So far having a young Han Solo movie (his days as a smuggler and spice trader) and a Boba Fett movie shows they're leaning towards showing stories of the Star Wars underworld, level 1313 and bounty hunters.....but anything is still possible.
@panki

I'm 95% sure they are going to make a Kenobi spinoff while Ewan McGregor is still around and willing!  They called him into TFA to record and modified old Obiwan's words to say "Rey", Obiwan and Kylo were the only ones to address her directly in the forceback and they wanted his character to be somehow involved in Rey's life.  I would love to see SW:Underworld in a TV series (the cinematography looked amazing from what I saw of the underbelly of Coruscant) but Vos is not as well known to the GA as Obiwan so I'm thinking they probably won't bring him into the ST.
@Search Your Feelings

I've read news reports of Disney/LF being in talks for both the Obi-wan and the TV show as well since last year.....but no announcement has been made either way....I imagine we'll hear something about either of them only towards the end of this year or early 2017 when the SW Rebels show is ending.

They don't need to bring Vos into the ST....if they have the TV show, people would recognize him from it....look at their sister concern Marvel......Agent Coulson and Agent Carter etc have appeared mainly in the TV show but briefly in the movie....while Nick Fury and Maria Hill appear primarily in movies but make cameo appearences in the TV Show......so they can mainly show Quinlan Vos on TV and have the same character in a brief flashback in the ST.....the GA would then easily recognize him.

Quinlan Vos has a very big fanbase among old fans.....there has to be some reason they decided to bring him into canon, didn't show him dying under order 66, kept mentioning the fact that he is fond of kids (and them of him) in the recent novel about him and emphasized his need for a family (finding it first in the jedi order and later wanting a permanent romantic relationship).
@panki

Oh, I meant bringing him into the ST by connecting him to Rey. You make good points about the possibility of Vos being primed to be related to Rey and I'm open to other speculations.  I haven't read the novel on him so I'm not that familiar with him.  What are your thoughts on why Rey was left on Jakku if Rey is a Vos?
@Search Your Feelings

Vos specialized in doing undercover assignments for the jedi council and a lot of his work was busting up illegal activities like slave trafficking, smuggling and the spice trade. Though he just made a brief appearance in Phantom Menace, Vos had been sent to Tatooine on one such mission.

Slave trafficking was a particular bugbear of his, especially when children were involved. His former padawan Aayla Secura was a a little slave girl when he found her and got her rescued. Due to this, he had many enemies among  groups like the Hutt family, the Black Sun, the Shadow Collective and even some bounty hunters.

They haven't brought Vos's life after order 66 into canon yet though they have hinted he survived (In ROTS, almost the jedi generals mentioned in the wars were killed by the clones...but Vos was not mentioned after he moved to Boz Pity). In the EU, he escapes from Boz Pity back to his home planet and lives there in hiding with his LI and their son who was also FS.

Now I am not sure they'll bring this exact same story into canon....but if he does go into hiding with his family, maybe the family was discovered years later and his old enemies take their revenge by leaving his little granddaughter as a slave with Unkar Plutt to die on a desert planet. It would be the cruelest punishment for someone who was dedicated to destroying illegal the slave trade.

I also feel it was Boba Fett who left her there.....there are rumors that he survived the sarlac pit in ROTJ and there was an easter egg in TFA pointing at Boba Fett... one of the flags over Maz's castle belongs to Boba Fett.





Also in the novel Star Wars: Aftermath, some Jawas on Tatooine have stored some rare items which two characters are allowed to look at. And this includes what sounds like Bona Fett's armor. He obviously escaped the sarlac pit and had to discard his damaged armor.

From the box, he withdraws a helmet. Pitted and pocked, as if with some kind of acid. But still-- he raps his knuckles on it . The Mandalorians knew how to make armor, didn't they? "Look at this," he says, holding it up. "Mandalorian battle armor. Whole box. Complete set, by the looks of it. Been through hell and back. I think my boss will appreciate this.

Based on what has been released in canon so far, even Obi-wan could work out as Rey's relative if they give us some indication of Korkie Kyryze's parentage as well as what happened to him after Maul had him arrested....I initially thought he was Sabine's father (Star Wars Rebels) but I think that was debunked. ...so the trail ended there. No

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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by Search Your Feelings on Wed 27 Apr - 17:25

@panki

Interesting story about Vos.
I am especially intrigued about his undercover business with the Jedi and that would definitely translate well for a TV series.
Your points could lead to a Rey Vos, especially the fact that he was a Jedi in hiding.   There are a few points, though, that keep me neutral on this theory (I could be wrong though):

1. Would Rey scream "Come Back!" to her enemies?  Maybe or maybe not, this could also apply to the Rey Kenobi theory.  Of course being left with Unkarr might make her say that but more realistically she'd be really quiet and scared with all these strangers if they took her away from her parents.
2. Would her enemies who left her there call her "Sweetheart?" Maybe or maybe not
3. Would the above 2 pts apply to Boba Fett?
4. Would the GA (who know absolutely nothing about SW) be satisfied with a character name drop that they never heard of until the TV series comes out (Which probably won't be made in a while but it may correspond with her parentage reveal in Ep9 so maybe)
5. I'm not sure Rey looks like Quinlon but of course she's his granddaughter, not daughter, so I could be wrong


I like your speculation though and it has a chance to be possible.
I especially like that they are still keeping Fett around, I had noticed the Mandalorian flag on Maz's castle as well but I did not know in Aftermath they brought up his salvaged armor.  
Boba was one of my favorite characters in the OT, not PT, and I would be happy if Boba Fett escaped the Sarlac Pitt (I think this was shown in the Battlefront game) but then died later and someone else took up his legend and his armor.  I never liked the whole Boba being a clone business.
https://futureofstarwars.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/boba-fett-lives-and-how-he-escaped-the-sarlacc-pit/
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Thu 28 Apr - 2:36

@Search Your Feelings

A lot of the points favoring the Rey Vos and Rey Kenobi theories would intersect since Obi-wan also had enemies and went undercover as a bounty hunter for some time. Where Vos stands out a little for me is the child slave issue which matches Rey's situation more and Rey's FS abilities in psychometry.

You bring up some interesting points....

1. On Rey calling out come back, I have this feeling they're following the story of Jarael. When she was abducted by a slaver as a little girl, the man had visited the school before and when his people attacked and burnt her school, she ran away. He found her and pretended to help her so she went with him willingly......then he took her to where they kept slaves and she had a hard life. Now in Rey's situation, this story could apply up to the point where maybe she was given to Unkar as revenge and/or to settle a debt (Unkar is given things to settle debts...the MF is one example) So she might not have realised that this person who left her had bad intentions and called for the person to come back.

2. I think the man could have called her sweetheart as part of the deception or maybe the "acid trip" nature of her vision made her mix up another past or future dialogue with the images she was watching...in the novel, the lines calling her sweetheart is said around the time she is in the woods and masked Kylo appears....the only thing we know for now is that she recognizes the voice.

3. Boba Fett has a long history with both Quinlan and/or Obi-wan, so I can imagine him being involved in Rey's abduction....and since it is a little girl, he need not have had to resort to violent means to abduct her...mere persuasion should have been enough.

4. I think the general audience will get a good story no matter who the parent will turn out to be...and I don't think they're as emotionally invested in who Rey's parents are as much as the story must make sense to them. If it were an episode 8 reveal, I'd be a little concerned but if they do plan a Netflix live TV show for early 2017 (like some rumors suggest), there is enough time to give his story to the GA before December 2019. And Quinlan Vos has a big fanbase among old fans already....he has a large number of comics dedicated to him and when ROTS was written, he was specifically kept alive and given a LI and family. Even if we don't include the EU, his love story in the canon novel Dark Disciple is based on a story concept written by GL's daughter. And if you listen to many of the online reviews by old fans, most of them get pretty emotional about him.

5. Quinlan's looks have varied in various depictions but one things that is obvious is his ethnic ambiguity.... which goes well with the fact that Rey's casting was blind to ethnicity. Rey's role was initially given to Jessica Henwick (the actress who plays Jessika Pava and is part Singaporean Chinese and Zambian-English) but then they later discovered Daisy Ridley and re-cast the role. The common feature the two actresses have is the dark hair and dark eyes.

When they announced Star Wars: Underworld TV Show before it fell apart due to budget issues, the person supposed to play Quinlan Vos was Jason Momoa (again diverse ethnicity)....The primary features Quinlan Vos possesses are that he is muscular, has dark long hair, brown eyes and a yellow stripe across his face..... and his pschometry and mind trick powers which Rey possesses. Psychometry is very rare and normally found among the Kiffar (Quinlan's people)

The one thing most fans have disliked his his depiction in the "Hunt for Ziro" episode of Clone Wars....where they tried to go for the surfer look. But here are a few more pictures that would show how diverse the depictions of Quinlan have been.

Phantom Menace

Comics

Clone wars

Jason Momoa (seems someone tried to depict what he'd look like as Quinlan)

In Aftermath, it is implied Boba escaped and left his damaged armor behind. It gets salvaged by some jawas and ends up with another character who tries to impersonate Boba. And the recent rumors of a Boba Fett movie showing his adventures after leaving the sarlac pit is also good news. Smile


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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by RKR Connection on Thu 28 Apr - 15:58

@panki Oh dear you'll never cease to amaze me! <3

I never considered Quinlan Vos because he seems so underrated: I didn't know he existed before you mentioned him a few weeks ago. | But I remember seeing his face somewhere... This one:



Asajj Ventress' vision is really interesting, especially the part about bringing balance to the Force. (by the way I wasn't aware of the fact that Vos appeared in TPM!)

Re: Rey being jumped on Jakku: It's totally plausible. His enemies could have stolen her from him & maybe he died while searching for her; perhaps he even went to the Outer Systems who knows :/

I didn't know either that a lot of people appreciated him; same as Rey who is such a cinnamon roll (in some way). Besides, I wonder how she learnt to speak Wookie. [probably the merchants]

On Jakku Rey observes a woman with turquoise blue clan markings and a purple outfit with a child. Blue markings of that sort are worn by Kiffars from Clan Konshi in the EU. (not the same tribe as Vos though) If they go by the EU, she would belong to the Vos clan who are guardians rulers of two planets.

Mind = blown. | Anakin & Quinlan: it's very poetic, those two are so similar... Ben and Rey would then be truly fated by the Force. (I love the way it sounds!)

Panki, it seems like you're converting me to your theory. I'm now stuck between Sheev Palpatine, King Prana and Quinlan Vos! Sad


PS. So Asajj Ventress is officially dead in the canon universe? | Do you have any idea of who the mother could be?
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Thu 28 Apr - 18:39

@Berhan

Thanks..... Razz

I would love her to be a Palpatine but so far the canon novels haven't given us any indication that Palpatine had a child or a mistress or even clones Sad If they do indicate something later, Palpatine will go back to being my favourite theory. Smile As of now Quinlan Vos is my number one choice, followed by Obi-wan (if Korkie Kryze is his secret son and had children)..

Quinlan Vos is more popular with the EU comic book fans more than people who just watch the movies or TV shows....I really don't like how he was drawn for the Clone Wars cartoon and it seems I was not the only one....it got a lot of negative feedback because he is supposed to be this really handsome guy....and that cartoon looks very goofy  Mad  Mad  Mad  Mad
That is also why I never considered him as Rey's relative before.

I like how he has been drawn for the promotion of the novel 'Dark Disciple' last year... this is how they probably will end up making him look if they ever have a live TV show character based on him....



I fell in love with the character all over again after reading that novel....they restored that charm, caring nature, vulnerability and toughness he had in the EU comics to a great extent...I don't think he will be Rey's father...I'd say grandfather better fits the timeline as he and Kenobi are around the same age (Quinlan may be slightly younger...but only slightly)

In the novel, Vos and Ventress go on many bounty hunting trips together when he is undercover...but two of them are given in detail. One is where an alien, his wife and child are hiding from a underworld clan and they have to take the guy back to that clan...and the alien keeps begging them not to hurt his family (of course, they don't)....and the second one is a situation where two small kids and their mother are kidnapped and they rescue them...but again another underworld group comes and executes the whole family for revenge....which is an emotional breaking point for Quinlan who grew attached to those children....it all seemed to foreshadow events yet to come in his own family life.

I wish he and Ventress had a child because that child would be super powerful considering how powerful both of them are...it is technically possible since they embarked on a physical relationship on Dathomir for some time and then get separated for some months...but nothing is even hinted to this effect so I don't think they had a child Sad

If I go by the EU story, Quinlan had a jedi LI who was killed by Dooku and then he falls in love with a female spy and they have a child and go into hiding after order 66. So far, they showed Ventress being killed by Dooku so I guess that they might bring in a second LI for him just like they did in the comics. One thing is certain... they blatantly mention that this guy needs family....first he finds it in the jedi temple....then with Ventress...and when she dies, with his jedi friends like Obi-wan who stand by him.....so once the jedi order fell, I am guessing he would have got into a relationship for certain.

There is also another line that made me wonder if it was foreshadowing something....Anakin volunteers to partner with Quinlan to assassinate Dooku and stop the separatists.....and Obi-wan wants to protest because he feels putting Anakin and Quinlan together on a mission was asking for trouble.... if Quinlan is Rey's grandfather, it would be really funny having their grandchildren working together to destroy the FO and Snoke.


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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by Search Your Feelings on Fri 29 Apr - 0:04

Yup, @panki is a fountain of knowledge and opens my mind to many speculations!
I am quickly going through the forums so don't have time to create a longer post but will when I get back regarding Rey Vos.
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 30 Apr - 15:56

@panki

Good theories on Quinlon Vos, LF & Disney should do a TV series with Jason as Quinlon Vos.
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Sat 30 Apr - 17:39

spacebaby45678 wrote:@panki

Good theories on Quinlon Vos, LF & Disney should do a TV series with Jason as Quinlon Vos.
@spacebaby45678

Thanks Smile

If they finally make a live action TV series of Star Wars: Underworld with Jason Momoa as Quinlan Vos, I will be sooooo happy!!!


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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by Search Your Feelings on Sun 1 May - 5:51

panki wrote:@Search Your Feelings

A lot of the points favoring the Rey Vos and Rey Kenobi theories would intersect since Obi-wan also had enemies and went undercover as a bounty hunter for some time. Where Vos stands out a little for me is the child slave issue which matches Rey's situation more and Rey's FS abilities in psychometry.

You bring up some interesting points....

1. On Rey calling out come back, I have this feeling they're following the story of Jarael. When she was abducted by a slaver as a little girl, the man had visited the school before and when his people attacked and burnt her school, she ran away. He found her and pretended to help her so she went with him willingly......then he took her to where they kept slaves and she had a hard life. Now in Rey's situation, this story could apply up to the point where maybe she was given to Unkar as revenge and/or to settle a debt (Unkar is given things to settle debts...the MF is one example) So she might not have realised that this person who left her had bad intentions and called for the person to come back.

This could be possible. Young Rey definitely looked like she did not fear the people(person) who left her there on Jakku. Does the ship give anything away? People were saying it looked like Hera's ship on Rebels. The ship was also flying into a red light in the sky that looked like the shape of Kylo's visor or the shape of when SKB's weapon finished charging. I wonder what that signifies. I also wonder why Unkarr Plutt held a lot of power. He seemed just like a two bit creep to me, who just happened to have the falcon and happened to have Rey. It just seems too coincidental to have them all in one planet.

2. I think the man could have called her sweetheart as part of the deception or maybe the "acid trip" nature of her vision made her mix up another past or future dialogue with the images she was watching...in the novel, the lines calling her sweetheart is said around the time she is in the woods and masked Kylo appears....the only thing we know for now is that she recognizes the voice.

The only person I've ever heard in SW say the phrase "sweetheart" was Han which probably contributed to a lot of people believing that Han left his daughter there lol. Since no parent would ever drop off their child on Jakku and to the likes of Unkarr means that the "sweetheart" is not meant to be a loving term from a family member but more like what "scoundrels" like Han would use..pirates, assassins, and yes, slave traders so your idea holds up.

3. Boba Fett has a long history with both Quinlan and/or Obi-wan, so I can imagine him being involved in Rey's abduction....and since it is a little girl, he need not have had to resort to violent means to abduct her...mere persuasion should have been enough.

I think it may feel forced to shove Boba Fett into Rey's story and I hope they don't do that even though he's one of my favorite characters from the OT.

4. I think the general audience will get a good story no matter who the parent will turn out to be...and I don't think they're as emotionally invested in who Rey's parents are as much as the story must make sense to them. If it were an episode 8 reveal, I'd be a little concerned but if they do plan a Netflix live TV show for early 2017 (like some rumors suggest), there is enough time to give his story to the GA before December 2019. And Quinlan Vos has a big fanbase among old fans already....he has a large number of comics dedicated to him and when ROTS was written, he was specifically kept alive and given a LI and family. Even if we don't include the EU, his love story in the canon novel Dark Disciple is based on a story concept written by GL's daughter. And if you listen to many of the online reviews by old fans, most of them get pretty emotional about him.

Agree, the timing would be right. I just think that they'd go with a character that your average Joe would recall, like Obiwan but it is a possibility that they would want people to be interested in Vos and would therefore want to check out the TV series.

5. Quinlan's looks have varied in various depictions but one things that is obvious is his ethnic ambiguity.... which goes well with the fact that Rey's casting was blind to ethnicity. Rey's role was initially given to Jessica Henwick (the actress who plays Jessika Pava and is part Singaporean Chinese and Zambian-English) but then they later discovered Daisy Ridley and re-cast the role. The common feature the two actresses have is the dark hair and dark eyes.

When they announced Star Wars: Underworld TV Show before it fell apart due to budget issues, the person supposed to play Quinlan Vos was Jason Momoa (again diverse ethnicity)....The primary features Quinlan Vos possesses are that he is muscular, has dark long hair, brown eyes and a yellow stripe across his face..... and his pschometry and mind trick powers which Rey possesses. Psychometry is very rare and normally found among the Kiffar (Quinlan's people)

Jason Momoa would be a perfect fit for Vos judging from the images of Vos. He definitely has his very own character niche in Hollywood. Laughing I just think the "refined" way Rey acts, with her more "posh" accents, are subtle hints towards a Kenobi rather than a rugged undercover bad*** like Vos but that's just me Laughing


The one thing most fans have disliked his his depiction in the "Hunt for Ziro" episode of Clone Wars....where they tried to go for the surfer look.


But here are a few more pictures that would show how diverse the depictions of Quinlan have been.

Phantom Menace

Comics

Clone wars

Jason Momoa (seems someone tried to depict what he'd look like as Quinlan)


In Aftermath, it is implied Boba escaped and left his damaged armor behind. It gets salvaged by some jawas and ends up with another character who tries to impersonate Boba. And the recent rumors of a Boba Fett movie showing his adventures after leaving the sarlac pit is also good news. Smile
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Sun 1 May - 6:38

@Search Your Feelings

1. This could be possible. Young Rey definitely looked like she did not fear the people(person) who left her there on Jakku. Does the ship give anything away? People were saying it looked like Hera's ship on Rebels. The ship was also flying into a red light in the sky that looked like the shape of Kylo's visor or the shape of when SKB's weapon finished charging. I wonder what that signifies. I also wonder why Unkarr Plutt held a lot of power. He seemed just like a two bit creep to me, who just happened to have the falcon and happened to have Rey. It just seems too coincidental to have them all in one planet.

The new Lego movie (non-canon) shows the 'ghost ship' leaving Jakku in the background of Rey short.....the red light also resembles the starkiller weapon's deep red colour.....we can't take everything Rey sees in her vision as a continuous event....I believe someone called it Rey's "acid trip". I never said Unkar was a big villain.... he is more like a money lender and people leave things with him or become his slaves (scavengers) to settle debts....it is mentioned in the novel....the MF was left to settle a debt.... he holds power in the Niima outpost, nowhere else. What I am speculating is that someone else left Rey with Unkar to possibly settle a debt or just dumped her there as revenge on Rey's family.


2. The only person I've ever heard in SW say the phrase "sweetheart" was Han which probably contributed to a lot of people believing that Han left his daughter there lol. Since no parent would ever drop off their child on Jakku and to the likes of Unkarr means that the "sweetheart" is not meant to be a loving term from a family member but more like what "scoundrels" like Han would use..pirates, assassins, and yes, slave traders so your idea holds up.

In the novel, the 'sweetheart' line comes just around the Takodana woods scene where she says 'where are you' and is searching among the trees...not the one with her and Unkar. That line didn't even come into the movie. And even if it were connected to her childhood, why should the person calling her 'sweetheart' have to be Unkar? Can it not be a predatory person sweet talking a kid into following him so as not to scare the child? Since Han uses the term 'sweetheart', are you saying Han left her with Unkar as a slave on Jakku? Wink


3. I think it may feel forced to shove Boba Fett into Rey's story and I hope they don't do that even though he's one of my favorite characters from the OT.

I admit I am speculating this point....but to me it seems interesting to have Boba Fett connected to Rey's past and knowing her origins....and if not, that is not a problem either....but as much as it feels force to you, it makes sense to me...because Boba Fett is the one who inadvertently introduced Quinlan Vos to Asajj...and subsequently saves Asajj from Dooku.....he is also connected to Obi-wan from his bounty hunter days and and the Skywalkers as well....so this is something that sounds like an interesting plot twist to me.

4. Agree, the timing would be right. I just think that they'd go with a character that your average Joe would recall, like Obiwan but it is a possibility that they would want people to be interested in Vos and would therefore want to check out the TV series.

The average viewer might be completely new to Star Wars (I'm not talking about the US, I mean at a global level).....the average Joe you are talking about are the people who only watch the SW movies....and the Quinlan Vos fanbase I am talking about are the EU comic book fans....but if TPTB go with whom the actual general audience recall, making Luke Skywalker her father would be the answer. (which I hope we both agree makes no sense)

If they make a movie on Obi-wan, it would make more people emotionally invested in him and if they make a TV show on Netflix, it would give people enough to be emotionally invested in Vos... I would wait for whether they announce an Obi-wan movie or an Underworld TV series before taking a call on this one. We shouldn't let our love for a character or a particular actor make us lose objectivity.


5. Jason Momoa would be a perfect fit for Vos judging from the images of Vos. He definitely has his very own character niche in Hollywood. Laughing I just think the "refined" way Rey acts, with her more "posh" accents, are subtle hints towards a Kenobi rather than a rugged undercover bad*** like Vos but that's just me Laughing.

Why should Rey get her grandfather's accent.....why not his hair and eye colour? (Quinlan Vos has dark hair and brown eyes like Rey)....and what about her powers of psychometry and ability to connect with with unifying force which is normally found among Qunilan's  people?

Then there is likeable nature? It is mentioned in the canon novel that Quinlan was a loner, worked with the seamiest people...while on the other hand, everybody who met him liked him instantly....now who does that sound more like?

Also, Rey might look delicate but she is a snarling angry scavenger girl who has killed other scavengers before, beat up Finn, kicked and cut up Kylo.....there is absolutely nothing elegant or genteel about her. ..she shows both dark side and light side qualities.....Quinlan Vos has been on both the light side and the dark side...but finally chooses the light....doesn't Rey do the same during her battle with Kylo?
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by darkspellmaster on Fri 6 May - 22:53

While my persona pick still is Luke as Rey's father, some interesting things came out with Bloodlines that I wish to share and probably can have some repercussions in regard to the future of where the ST is going and what's going on.

So during Bloodlines we meet with Ramslo Casterfo, a senator who's actions lead to the troubles that start up a huge change in the New Republic as well as the FO. That being said there's a moment in the story where something interesting happens.

Spoiler:
Ramslo is confronted by an Amaxine warrior and defends Leia by using none other then a Force Pike.
This lovely thing right here.

Now why might this be important, well for a few reasons. Firstly the force pike is the weapon of Papatine's guards, you don't get to have one unless you're FS and it's a very strong weapon.

Now isn't it odd that Ramslo is Force Senstive and knows how to use these? Yes this is an item he's collected so it's not like he was a member of the Red guard. But it's important to note that you have to have some skill with the force to use this thing. At least that was so in the old EU, not sure if it's still going on.

The other factor in this is that Ramslo was created by Rian and will more then likely appear in some form in the upcoming VIII. The thing of note is that he was arrested and taken to jail but we don't know about the rest of his family.

It's a strange option but, here goes:

Could it be that Rey is Ramslo's younger sister. He would have been 11 or 12 when she was born, making him close to Poe's age. We know that, given the fact that he's apparently some what FS, it might run in the family.

The only thing that is causing issues here is that Rey was dropped off at a younger age then the whole downfall of Ramslo, unless the family hid her because someone figured her to be FS. It's an option, although a loose one. Or he may know about her family line as well.

My own guess, about Rey, if she's not Luke's, then she's going to turn out to be connected either to Ezra due to the fact that he's a more well known then Vos right now (could be that Finn's related to him), or it could be that she's connected to the Shan family of Revan's since that seems to be coming into play. Other options could be the Govern who apparently didn't have any heir's that died (which could be interesting) making her distantly related to Bail Organa by blood in this case.

The only thing I'm going to be annoyed with is if it's a whole new Force made baby thing.

As for the FO, it's looking like we have a case of the Separatists trying to pave the way for the Empire's return. We don't know if the Empire really is as involved with them as much as we think they are. Would be funny if the Empire comes and helps the rebels fight against the FO.
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Fri 6 May - 23:16

darkspellmaster wrote:While my persona pick still is Luke as Rey's father, some interesting things came out with Bloodlines that I wish to share and probably can have some repercussions in regard to the future of where the ST is going and what's going on.

So during Bloodlines we meet with Ramslo Casterfo, a senator who's actions lead to the troubles that start up a huge change in the New Republic as well as the FO. That being said there's a moment in the story where something interesting happens.

Spoiler:
Ramslo is confronted by an Amaxine warrior and defends Leia by using none other then a Force Pike.
This lovely thing right here.

Now why might this be important, well for a few reasons. Firstly the force pike is the weapon of Papatine's guards, you don't get to have one unless you're FS and it's a very strong weapon.

Now isn't it odd that Ramslo is Force Senstive and knows how to use these? Yes this is an item he's collected so it's not like he was a member of the Red guard. But it's important to note that you have to have some skill with the force to use this thing. At least that was so in the old EU, not sure if it's still going on.

The other factor in this is that Ramslo was created by Rian and will more then likely appear in some form in the upcoming VIII. The thing of note is that he was arrested and taken to jail but we don't know about the rest of his family.

It's a strange option but, here goes:

Could it be that Rey is Ramslo's younger sister. He would have been 11 or 12 when she was born, making him close to Poe's age. We know that, given the fact that he's apparently some what FS, it might run in the family.

The only thing that is causing issues here is that Rey was dropped off at a younger age then the whole downfall of Ramslo, unless the family hid her because someone figured her to be FS. It's an option, although a loose one. Or he may know about her family line as well.

My own guess, about Rey, if she's not Luke's, then she's going to turn out to be connected either to Ezra due to the fact that he's a more well known then Vos right now (could be that Finn's related to him), or it could be that she's connected to the Shan family of Revan's since that seems to be coming into play. Other options could be the Govern who apparently didn't have any heir's that died (which could be interesting) making her distantly related to Bail Organa by blood in this case.

The only thing I'm going to be annoyed with is if it's a whole new Force made baby thing.

As for the FO, it's looking like we have a case of the Separatists trying to pave the way for the Empire's return. We don't know if the Empire really is as involved with them as much as we think they are. Would be funny if the Empire comes and helps the rebels fight against the FO.
@darkspellmaster

I never thought about Ranslom Casterfo being related to Rey...that would be an interesting twist....this also made me think of another possibility.....could Rey be from Jakku itself and her family (maybe former imperials since there is supposed to be a hidden research facility on Jakku) left her behind by accident? Even scavengers carry staffs......Sarco Plank carries a shockstaff.

I like the idea of Ezra being linked to Rey as well.....they had a similar childhood and both had a lightsaber call to them.....and of course their natural dark side inclinations.

I'm not very convinced Luke had a child because it seems near impossible for someone to re-build an order from scratch and still find the time for a child and relationship. Also, Leia never mentions a lost niece in Bloodline though she is still in contact with Luke....and he seems busy training his student(s) and not searching for a lost child....I could always be wrong though.

I can't imagine Quinlan being related to Finn.....Shocked Finn's character to be is so underdeveloped and contrary (I can't get over how he cheerfully mowed down his fellow stormtroopers who he grew up with and later jeopardised the resistance to save Rey.....Quinlan Vos was a kind person....nothing like Finn Evil or Very Mad ...I'd believe Poe was Vos's descendant, but not Finn)...and Finn exhibits no force abilities...also, Rey did exhibit psychometry when she touched the lightsaber, which is Vos's speciality (no other jedi in canon has this ability). And in the Dark Disciple novel, Ventress saves Vos's life (and she dies instead) because the force shows her a vision at that her decision would have repercussions far into the future and could lead to a restoration of balance....this made me think Vos's descendant has to play a critical role in the ST.


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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by darkspellmaster on Sat 7 May - 0:19

panki wrote:
darkspellmaster wrote:While my persona pick still is Luke as Rey's father, some interesting things came out with Bloodlines that I wish to share and probably can have some repercussions in regard to the future of where the ST is going and what's going on.

So during Bloodlines we meet with Ramslo Casterfo, a senator who's actions lead to the troubles that start up a huge change in the New Republic as well as the FO. That being said there's a moment in the story where something interesting happens.

Spoiler:
Ramslo is confronted by an Amaxine warrior and defends Leia by using none other then a Force Pike.
This lovely thing right here.

Now why might this be important, well for a few reasons. Firstly the force pike is the weapon of Papatine's guards, you don't get to have one unless you're FS and it's a very strong weapon.

Now isn't it odd that Ramslo is Force Senstive and knows how to use these? Yes this is an item he's collected so it's not like he was a member of the Red guard. But it's important to note that you have to have some skill with the force to use this thing. At least that was so in the old EU, not sure if it's still going on.

The other factor in this is that Ramslo was created by Rian and will more then likely appear in some form in the upcoming VIII. The thing of note is that he was arrested and taken to jail but we don't know about the rest of his family.

It's a strange option but, here goes:

Could it be that Rey is Ramslo's younger sister. He would have been 11 or 12 when she was born, making him close to Poe's age. We know that, given the fact that he's apparently some what FS, it might run in the family.

The only thing that is causing issues here is that Rey was dropped off at a younger age then the whole downfall of Ramslo, unless the family hid her because someone figured her to be FS. It's an option, although a loose one. Or he may know about her family line as well.

My own guess, about Rey, if she's not Luke's, then she's going to turn out to be connected either to Ezra due to the fact that he's a more well known then Vos right now (could be that Finn's related to him), or it could be that she's connected to the Shan family of Revan's since that seems to be coming into play. Other options could be the Govern who apparently didn't have any heir's that died (which could be interesting) making her distantly related to Bail Organa by blood in this case.

The only thing I'm going to be annoyed with is if it's a whole new Force made baby thing.

As for the FO, it's looking like we have a case of the Separatists trying to pave the way for the Empire's return. We don't know if the Empire really is as involved with them as much as we think they are. Would be funny if the Empire comes and helps the rebels fight against the FO.
@darkspellmaster

I never thought about Ranslom Casterfo being related to Rey...that would be an interesting twist....this also made me think of another possibility.....could Rey be from Jakku itself and her family (maybe former imperials since there is supposed to be a hidden research facility on Jakku) left her behind by accident? Even scavengers carry staffs......Sarco Plank carries a shockstaff.

This is very true. Her being from Jakku is an option as well, though I thought the way the scene played out, and from the way her chapter was in Before the Awakening, that she was left behind. In the Before the awakening book, and I think in the novel as well, Rey pauses to look at a family that stopped on Jakku to seemingly get directions or make a pit stop as it were. The other factor is her dreams indicating that she feels warm and that the memories are trying to swim to the surface. If she's never been off planet then the question becomes, why would she be dreaming of places that have lush life? That's where she's confusing me. We either have to assume that she's from Jakku or that she's been dropped off there, and there hasn't been enough clues for a third option, and there's not enough for a choice one way or the other.

If she is from Ramslo's family it could be interesting too if they do meet. All these stories have been about miscommunications, family, and pushing apart pieces, I have a feeling that VIII will at least bring things together. Also Ramslo would be a great person to explain at least some factors in regard to why Ben made the choices that he did seeing as Ramslo's moves caused him, at least partly, to fall.

I like the idea of Ezra being linked to Rey as well.....they had a similar childhood and both had a lightsaber call to them.....and of course their natural dark side inclinations.

I'm not very convinced Luke had a child because it seems near impossible for someone to re-build an order from scratch and still find the time for a child and relationship. Also, Leia never mentions a lost niece in Bloodline though she is still in contact with Luke....and he seems busy training his student(s) and not searching for a lost child....I could always be wrong though.

It would at the very least connect Rebels into the new EU, and you're right they both did have similar childhoods. So many are thinking he's going to go to the darkside, but if he's Rey's dad, hey could be interesting to see play out.

My only reason to think it's not as bad as that in regard to Luke is because I think he had more help then what we've seen. People assume that he didn't do a lot in the last 30 year in regard to teaching. However, and again I have to speculate on this, from what we know thanks to Rebels, is that there are older people that have the force. So it could be that Luke has trained more students over the years then we think. Maybe they helped him build up the Jedi and maybe they were around to take care of a kid as well. We do know that Leia and Han did manage it, and she was actively working for the Republic at the time and he was starting up the Racing circuits (and why do I have a feeling Lando got him involved in that), so there could be a chance that he could have had a kid and was still working with the Jedi.

Part of me wants at least Luke to have a family due to how well it worked in the EU and grew his character over the course of the books. Even if it's not Rey, it would be nice for him to have a family out there, in hiding. How much of what's going on with Luke is up in the air in regard to what Leia seems to know. There's that issue with Radiation blocking communication, and given the hostile environment of the NR, I'm not sure if he would want anyone knowing, even his sister. The only reason I say that is because as saintly as Luke is, he's still that stubborn farmboy that he was when he started out in a lot of ways, and he probably holds things to himself in some cases.

I'm now starting to wonder if Luke and Ben were actively searching for Snoke or someone since Leia cant get in contact with them. And if he was in one place, then wouldn't she be able to talk to him more actively? This isn't about Rey as much as in general as to what he and Ben were doing.

I can't imagine Quinlan being related to Finn.....Shocked Finn's character to be is so underdeveloped and contrary (I can't get over how he cheerfully mowed down his fellow stormtroopers who he grew up with and later jeopardised the resistance to save Rey.....Quinlan Vos was a kind person....nothing like Finn Evil or Very Mad ...I'd believe Poe was Vos's descendant, but not Finn)...and Finn exhibits no force abilities...also, Rey did exhibit psychometry when she touched the lightsaber, which is Vos's speciality (no other jedi in canon has this ability). And in the Dark Disciple novel, Ventress saves Vos's life (and she dies instead) because the force shows her a vision at that her decision would have repercussions far into the future and could lead to a restoration of balance....this made me think Vos's descendant has to play a critical role in the ST.


The only reason I'm wondering if there was any connection to Finn was because of some of Quinlan's actions in the comics, he is a kind person, but Vos was no dummy when it came tot things. Poe, maybe, but I'm not sure right now. They have Poe as a mystery as well. While we know who is parents are, we don't know what happened to his mom, and if he's got some special gifts from living around the force tree. The only reason I think somethings up with Finn is because of a few things. Firstly, in the Before the Awakening book Finn's actually kind to his fellow troopers and does what he has to, to protect them. Phasma even sees him as something special. He purposely puts himself up against Slips to make sure he's not hurt in the fight, covers for him several times, and even after everything that goes down Phasma herself doesn't put in a report about him failing at least three times she covers for him. Which makes me wonder what's going on there.

The other thing is that when he was going on the ship, it seemed like he heard the Screams from Hosin Prime. So I'm wondering if there is some FS in him. You're right he does easily mow down troopers. Then again, the book points out that most of the ones that we see in the movie are not part of his original unit. I'm still up in the air about Finn's actions, I don't see him as a bad person, but he's got a lot to learn.
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Re: Theory and Ramblings- The rise of the FO, Rey's origin and Balance to the Force

Post by panki on Sat 7 May - 9:01

darkspellmaster wrote:
This is very true. Her being from Jakku is an option as well, though I thought the way the scene played out, and from the way her chapter was in Before the Awakening, that she was left behind. In the Before the awakening book, and I think in the novel as well, Rey pauses to look at a family that stopped on Jakku to seemingly get directions or make a pit stop as it were. The other factor is her dreams indicating that she feels warm and that the memories are trying to swim to the surface. If she's never been off planet then the question becomes, why would she be dreaming of places that have lush life? That's where she's confusing me. We either have to assume that she's from Jakku or that she's been dropped off there, and there hasn't been enough clues for a third option, and there's not enough for a choice one way or the other.

If she is from Ramslo's family it could be interesting too if they do meet. All these stories have been about miscommunications, family, and pushing apart pieces, I have a feeling that VIII will at least bring things together. Also Ramslo would be a great person to explain at least some factors in regard to why Ben made the choices that he did seeing as Ramslo's moves caused him, at least partly, to fall.

I saw Ranslom as a representation of Ben Solo in the novel.....probably voicing the feelings and concerns of the same generation...not liking what the current leaders were doing and looking to the past for change but feeling they can do it better. If Ranslom returns, I imagine either he or Poe will end up succeeding Leia and leading the resistance or new government after the FO is gone.

Rey used to dream of an island...but they never specified it was lush and green....when they landed in Takodana, she remarked that she had never seen so much green in her life...in Bloodline we read about Daxam IV, an outer rim planet with cold desert climate and seas....and the base of the new Amaxine warrirors....since Rey was abandoned on Jakku in a battle dress, I wondered if she has some link to Daxam IV...either her family went there from Jakku or escaped from there to Jakku.

In the TFA novel, Rey watches a woman with blue clan markings with her child and emulates the woman's gesture of brushing the child's hair unconciously.....don't the Kiffars (Quinlan Vos's people but a different clan) also wear blue clan markings?

darkspellmaster wrote: It would at the very least connect Rebels into the new EU, and you're right they both did have similar childhoods. So many are thinking he's going to go to the darkside, but if he's Rey's dad, hey could be interesting to see play out.

I heard a fascinating theory on youtube- what if Kanan is Snoke? After all, he was handsome (someone mentioned Snoke used to be handsome) and he did witness the rise and fall of the Empire. Maybe Kanan and Ezra did turn to the dark side after the Maul incident and under the influence of the "presence" in the sith holocron. If Ezra turns out to be Rey's dad under those circumstances...I can't even imagine what sort of emotional conflict she would go through. Shocked But being a Rebels fan, I would enjoy this story a lot.


darkspellmaster wrote:  My only reason to think it's not as bad as that in regard to Luke is because I think he had more help then what we've seen. People assume that he didn't do a lot in the last 30 year in regard to teaching. However, and again I have to speculate on this, from what we know thanks to Rebels, is that there are older people that have the force. So it could be that Luke has trained more students over the years then we think. Maybe they helped him build up the Jedi and maybe they were around to take care of a kid as well. We do know that Leia and Han did manage it, and she was actively working for the Republic at the time and he was starting up the Racing circuits (and why do I have a feeling Lando got him involved in that), so there could be a chance that he could have had a kid and was still working with the Jedi.

Part of me wants at least Luke to have a family due to how well it worked in the EU and grew his character over the course of the books. Even if it's not Rey, it would be nice for him to have a family out there, in hiding. How much of what's going on with Luke is up in the air in regard to what Leia seems to know. There's that issue with Radiation blocking communication, and given the hostile environment of the NR, I'm not sure if he would want anyone knowing, even his sister. The only reason I say that is because as saintly as Luke is, he's still that stubborn farmboy that he was when he started out in a lot of ways, and he probably holds things to himself in some cases.

I'm now starting to wonder if Luke and Ben were actively searching for Snoke or someone since Leia cant get in contact with them. And if he was in one place, then wouldn't she be able to talk to him more actively? This isn't about Rey as much as in general as to what he and Ben were doing.


Maybe the reason I feel Luke never married is because he never came across as the marrying type to me in the movies....I mean, he studied with traditionalists from the old jedi order and by ROTJ, he had this monk like air about him....if he found happiness with someone and the story is good, I would like the idea...but after they killed off his potential LI in Heir to the Jedi (which took place before ROTJ), I just don't see him being with anyone else...I could always be wrong. Also, in the novels and comics so far, Luke seems to be travelling around the galaxy by himself collecting materials and information....the only other person we know helped him so far is Lor San Tekka...and we don't even know what sort of new order he had created....there are so many questions and few answers in sight Smile

I did consider the possibility that Luke and Ben were searching for Snoke...what if Luke realised Snoke wanted Ben and sent him undercover to infiltrate the FO and get to Snoke but it backfired when Ben found out he was related to Vader? But then I wonder how that would tie into the whole burning temple and dead students episode and I am left confused  confused  

darkspellmaster wrote: The only reason I'm wondering if there was any connection to Finn was because of some of Quinlan's actions in the comics, he is a kind person, but Vos was no dummy when it came tot things. Poe, maybe, but I'm not sure right now. They have Poe as a mystery as well. While we know who is parents are, we don't know what happened to his mom, and if he's got some special gifts from living around the force tree. The only reason I think somethings up with Finn is because of a few things. Firstly, in the Before the Awakening book Finn's actually kind to his fellow troopers and does what he has to, to protect them. Phasma even sees him as something special. He purposely puts himself up against Slips to make sure he's not hurt in the fight, covers for him several times, and even after everything that goes down Phasma herself doesn't put in a report about him failing at least three times she covers for him. Which makes me wonder what's going on there.
 
The other thing is that when he was going on the ship, it seemed like he heard the Screams from Hosin Prime. So I'm wondering if there is some FS in him. You're right he does easily mow down troopers. Then again, the book points out that most of the ones that we see in the movie are not part of his original unit. I'm still up in the air about Finn's actions, I don't see him as a bad person, but he's got a lot to learn.
 

In the scene where Finn looks up as the Starkiller weapon is fired, the next shot is of Han and the rest of Maz's castle crowd also rushing out and looking up at the sky....so it was something they all could hear and not due to some force ability being exhibited by Finn. Maybe Finn has force abilities but he hasn't exhibited any till now.

Rey on the other hand has shown both psychometry and the jedi mind trick....Quinlan had both these abilities in the EU and now he has it in canon as well....in Dark Disciple, they've made him even more adept at this and he could use the mind trick without even vocally making suggestions. He is also particularly acrobatic in his fighting style and aggressive...again traits Rey exhibits (we just need to see Daisy Ridley's new instagram fight demo to see that she will be acrobatic when she fights)

And both in the EU and canon, Quinlan was very mission oriented....he was always more concerned about the greater good...even almost killing Aayla Secura (his padawan and almost like a daughter to him) and Master Tholme (his master) for the sake of being able to kill Sidious and Dooku...and in the canon, he sabotages his jedi missions and puts his life in danger to kill both Dooku and Sidious....it is never about individuals...it is about the good of the galaxy.

Finn is the opposite.... he only saw Poe as a means of escape....even if the storm troopers he killed were from another division, he never considered they were brainwashed child soldiers like him (he actually is cheerful while killing them...not a moment of regret or pain)...and he jeopardises the lives of Han, Chewie, Poe (who did nothing but help him) and the whole resistance to save Rey.....it is all about him and individuals he cares for....not about the good of everyone. Quinlan on the other hand would sacrifice himself and those he cares about if it would help save the galaxy, as both the comics and the recent canon novel have shown.

I have a theory regarding Phasma caring for Finn..... Finn has a similar story to Zare Leonis and his sister Dhara in the Secret Academy novel....being part of the imperial program and excelling in it...... realising the imperials are evil but staying to rescue his sister Dhara...... briefly joining Brendol Hux's elite commandant's cadets....then almost getting killed for being a traitor and finally escaping. I think Phasma is a former commandant's cadet (Anya Razar...the age, accent and physical description match) and if Finn is either related to Zare or Dhara (who was force sensitive), she would feel he is a promising soldier and would give him special attention.

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