Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by snufkin on Sun 8 May - 18:19

@Darth_Awakened - the whole thing which really sells that sequence besides the choreography is Harrison Ford's eyes the whole time. One of my uncles was a working actor here in the States and it used to annoy the Hell out of me as a kid if we were watching TV together because he'd always be like "watch the eyes." Damned if all those times he pointed out to me actually sunk in, because you can see Han's concerned about Leia (even if she's a b**** to him the entire time) and how completely panicked/but holding it together he is, trying to get their motley group out of there with Vader right on their heels. The whole "Han is a cool motherf****r crew" have no clue because he's so clearly not being cool but knows he's responsible for the group in that sequence.

@vaderito - excellent example and exactly what they're going for. Yoda probably would consider that an inappropriate use of the Force, but it's pretty clear around the time the casting and story were coming together, Carrie Fisher was cracking jokes that sort of about Force Sex.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 8 May - 18:28

snufkin wrote:
@vaderito - excellent example and exactly what they're going for. Yoda probably would consider that an inappropriate use of the Force, but it's pretty clear around the time the casting and story were coming together, Carrie Fisher was cracking jokes that sort of about Force Sex.
@snufkin

Unfortunate that is. Using the Force against the jedi code.
To Luke: young Skywalker blow a hut you must!

(Mace Windu s force ghost frantically claps hand in the backgorund)

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by vaderito on Sun 8 May - 18:32

Darth_Awakened wrote:
snufkin wrote:
@vaderito - excellent example and exactly what they're going for. Yoda probably would consider that an inappropriate use of the Force, but it's pretty clear around the time the casting and story were coming together, Carrie Fisher was cracking jokes that sort of about Force Sex.
@snufkin

Unfortunate that is. Using the Force against the jedi code.
To Luke: young Skywalker blow a hut you must!

(Mace Windu s force ghost frantically claps hand in the backgorund)
@Darth_Awakened

Well, they did use the Force for sexual education so it's within the code but barely.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 8 May - 18:58

vaderito wrote:
Darth_Awakened wrote:
snufkin wrote:
@vaderito - excellent example and exactly what they're going for. Yoda probably would consider that an inappropriate use of the Force, but it's pretty clear around the time the casting and story were coming together, Carrie Fisher was cracking jokes that sort of about Force Sex.
@snufkin

Unfortunate that is. Using the Force against the jedi code.
To Luke: young Skywalker blow a hut you must!

(Mace Windu s force ghost frantically claps hand in the backgorund)
@Darth_Awakened

Well, they did use the Force for sexual education so it's within the code but barely.
@vaderito

?

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by vaderito on Sun 8 May - 20:25

Darth_Awakened wrote:
?
@Darth_Awakened

Force sex. They can always say they used it for knowledge/education. According to Yoda, a Jedi cna use the Force only for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 8 May - 20:31

vaderito wrote:
Darth_Awakened wrote:
?
@Darth_Awakened

Force sex. They can always say they used it for knowledge/education. According to Yoda, a Jedi cna use the Force only for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

@vaderito
LOL - I get it now

Like: Do not worry uncle/Master Luke we were just exploring the new ways of using the force. And it seems it is working. Very Happy

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by vaderito on Sun 8 May - 20:33

Perhaps that's why Luke blow up the hut. Conversation between Rey and Kylo revealed "new ways of using the Force" and that they want to do it again. Twisted Evil
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by snufkin on Sun 8 May - 20:49

vaderito wrote:Perhaps that's why Luke blow up the hut. Conversation between Rey and Kylo revealed "new ways of using the Force" and that they want to do it again. Twisted Evil
@vaderito

Yes it was for educational purposes only! So other thought about using references from previous films in TFA. People assume the escape from Jakku is 100% escape from Mos Eisley. But it's also a bit of the escape from ESB because like Han, Rey's the person who has to take charge of the situation because otherwise they're screwed. Including diving into the turret of an old star destroyer, which is as desperate and risky as going into an asteroid field.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by vaderito on Sun 8 May - 20:51

snufkin wrote:
vaderito wrote:Perhaps that's why Luke blow up the hut. Conversation between Rey and Kylo revealed "new ways of using the Force" and that they want to do it again. Twisted Evil
@vaderito

Yes it was for educational purposes only! So other thought about using references from previous films in TFA. People assume the escape from Jakku is 100% escape from Mos Eisley. But it's also a bit of the escape from ESB because like Han, Rey's the person who has to take charge of the situation because otherwise they're screwed. Including diving into the turret of an old star destroyer, which is as desperate and risky as going into an asteroid field.
@snufkin

Proof that Rey is Han's daughter, eh? So much for callback = related.

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by snufkin on Sun 8 May - 20:54

@vaderito, those fanboys have it all figured out. The big reveal will be a duel and "Rey, I am your older brother!" ; ). Srsly, if they can draw a straight line between new characters and old, she's Han, Finn is Luke, and KR is Leia (same fabulous hair and snotty attitude).

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by vaderito on Sun 8 May - 21:07

I read an amazing theory today, don't remember where, that Kylo's apparently so powerful, he wiped Han,Luke, Leia memory of Kylo's little sister, and little sister's memory of mom, dad, bro, uncle. But when you think about it, he had to wipe minds of all people who ever came in contact with the fmaily or heard about little sister and considering mom's public profile, that's the whole galaxy. So question is, how come this powerful mind-wiper is not the Renperor yet? cause he could just keep wiping minds of Republic memory, etc? he could leave them a memory how to order sushi online, though.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by snufkin on Sun 8 May - 21:28

Clearly the movie they're calling back to is Mildred Pearce, Kylo Ren is totally Veda (on TCM for Mother's Day).

@vaderito - here's another one. You mentioned whether or not Vader can sense Han or if it's Han's reputation as a pilot. When KR is trying to find Rey, he immediately knows that she's going to steal a ship and panics about it. No "you're a pilot?!" moment like Finn or Han, he already understands and respects her skills because of what she did with the MF.


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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by Darth Dementor on Sun 8 May - 21:31

All right just popped in ESB. This is the best SW movie ever!

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by vaderito on Sun 8 May - 21:54

Darth Dementor wrote:All right just popped in ESB. This is the best SW movie ever!
@Darth Dementor

Yep. cheers

@snufkin level of understanding between those two is just flower
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by snufkin on Mon 9 May - 5:26

Here's a good summary of chiasmus that ties in with Balance Yin/Yang:

The Empire Strikes Back Is a Perfectly Symmetrical Film
https://dejareviewer.com/2014/05/20/cinematic-chiasmus-the-empire-strikes-back-is-a-perfectly-symmetrical-film/

It seems to me that the purpose of this chiasmus in The Empire Strikes Back is to highlight the duality of the Force. It has a Light Side and a Dark Side. Many of the events that take place on opposite sides of this chiasmus are also opposite in their results

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by vaderito on Mon 9 May - 12:45

snufkin wrote:Here's a good summary of chiasmus that ties in with Balance Yin/Yang:

The Empire Strikes Back Is a Perfectly Symmetrical Film
https://dejareviewer.com/2014/05/20/cinematic-chiasmus-the-empire-strikes-back-is-a-perfectly-symmetrical-film/

It seems to me that the purpose of this chiasmus in The Empire Strikes Back is to highlight the duality of the Force. It has a Light Side and a Dark Side. Many of the events that take place on opposite sides of this chiasmus are also opposite in their results

@snufkin

This is fantastic! That's truly great work on Larry's part to write all those scenes in this manner.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 9 May - 12:57

snufkin wrote:Here's a good summary of chiasmus that ties in with Balance Yin/Yang:

The Empire Strikes Back Is a Perfectly Symmetrical Film
https://dejareviewer.com/2014/05/20/cinematic-chiasmus-the-empire-strikes-back-is-a-perfectly-symmetrical-film/

It seems to me that the purpose of this chiasmus in The Empire Strikes Back is to highlight the duality of the Force. It has a Light Side and a Dark Side. Many of the events that take place on opposite sides of this chiasmus are also opposite in their results

@snufkin

I originally posted this in the Rey lineage, this small chiasmus reflects TFA but also the greater work of the OT & PT and because of its placement EP8 of ST,  This is the link for the complete comparison of AOTC & ESB . So some eager ST fan could easily take this outline, and create spoilers  and be close to the truth.


http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/ring-composition-chiasmus-hidden-artistry-star-wars-prequels/4/

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by Saracene on Mon 9 May - 13:09

- Easily the best film in the series. It's like someone took the setting and characters from the slight if charming ANH and made an honest-to-goodness great movie out of them. I can't think of anything to fault much... hmmm ok those puppet creatures at the start of the movie are dated and hilarious but that's ok.

- Luke slept inside the belly of a horsey creature before Leonardo di Caprio made it cool in The Revenant! Smile

- Kylo's grandpa is proper scary and majestic this time around! He is served well by the overall darker mood and the way everyone on the Star Destroyer is clearly scared shitless when he’s around, because you never know when you might get demoted by Force choke. The reactions of other characters really are important in establishing a villain: everyone loves Kylo stopping the blast at the start of TFA, but what really makes that scene IMO is Poe's awed/horrified reaction.

- Kylo's parents were one hot couple. Someone in the thread mentioned that, had it come out today, there would be an outcry over Han forcing himself on Leia or whatever. He is an arrogant jerk, yeah, but why would you have him any other way? And why can't every blockbuster have a romance with this much chemistry and snark and undercurrents and feeeelings?

- OT!Yoda is so much better than the PT!Yoda partly because he resides in a misty magical swamp straight out of a fairytale, rather than the sterile airport lounge environments of the PT. He still has zero clue on how real human beings react, but the craft and artistry that went into his creation is amazing; so much soul and character you forget he's just a puppet.

- Luke and Leia kiss... um yeah awkward.

- I figured out why I suddenly got drawn into Star Wars - it's the big dysfunctional Shakespearean family drama. I mean yes, Reylo and the potential storyline between them is a huge draw, but I just really love messed up families.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by Armadeus on Mon 9 May - 14:02

YODA: Do... or do not. There is no try.

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by Armadeus on Mon 9 May - 14:27

@Kylo Ren

I'd still wear that headgear. You know why? Because nothing would be more humiliating for my enemies than to be crushed by a foe in bad headgear Twisted Evil

Anyway, random thoughts:

ESB is the best of the series, as most people have said.

The duel between Luke and Vader in this movie is my second favourite duel in the entire saga.

Favourite line: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.

Few people can compete with Han Solo for coolness. Lando is one of the few. He really needs to come back in the ST in some capacity.

Luke took one hell of a pummeling (emotionally and physically) in this movie. A veritable descent into the underworld of the soul. The road to wisdom is hard and no one gets there unscarred.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by snufkin on Mon 9 May - 15:14

@spacebaby45678 - I've looked at that site. I think it'll be interesting to see how much the next movie plays with chiasmus, both in a straight forward manner and also in how they play with peoples' expectations. Rian Johnson is very good at both invoking and toying with genres, so it'll be fun. And it's funny if people are being set up to expect the next movie to be a straight forward mirror of ESB (my money's on the text crawl( when so very clearly TFA has already started the major arcs for Rey/Ren in the first movie.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 9 May - 16:01

snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 - I've looked at that site. I think it'll be interesting to see how much the next movie plays with chiasmus, both in a straight forward manner and also in how they play with peoples' expectations. Rian Johnson is very good at both invoking and toying with genres, so it'll be fun. And it's funny if people are being set up to expect the next movie to be a straight forward mirror of ESB (my money's on the text crawl( when so very clearly TFA has already started the major arcs for Rey/Ren in the first movie.
@snufkin

it won't directy mirror ESB, it has AOTC also to reverse or parallel. Rian has already messed. The vision of Rey's in TFA ( a future vision oF EP8) has her in the dark rain and lightning facing a masked foe, this mirrors Kenobi in Aotc facing Boba Fett in the rain and lighting.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Post by snufkin on Mon 9 May - 16:11

@spacebaby45678 yeah it's interesting how once you spend the time and watch all of the movies, how clear it becomes that they're referencing all 6 of the previous ones from different elements. This is what I think of as the magic trick of distracting most viewers with repeating familiar elements from the first movie and meanwhile, there's so much else going on below the surface.
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