Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by Armadeus on Sun May 15, 2016 4:16 am

@Kylo Ren wrote:

Never....I'll never turn to the dark side. You failed Your Higness....I....am a Jedi....like my father before me
Dammit...goosebumps...
@Kylo Ren

Bloodshed only breeds bloodshed. The cycle of violence doesn't end until someone puts away their weapon and by doing so maybe inspire others to do the same.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun May 15, 2016 5:51 am

Guys, I know the ROTJ sith is going on over here.
I am not sure I am gonna join today - having a headache since morning (it has been raining heavily for three days and my head does not like rain)
Have Fun!

mwahahahahahaha Razz

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by vaderito on Sun May 15, 2016 6:33 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:Guys, I know the ROTJ sith is going on over here.
I am not sure I am gonna join today - having a headache since morning (it has been raining heavily for three days and my head does not like rain)
Have Fun!

mwahahahahahaha Razz

@Darth_Awakened

I'm like that too. Rain = bad migraine. Temperature goes from low to way up within hours = bad migraine. Take a nap, maybe pop a sedative to make sure you actually sleep. That helps.

Anyway, ROTJ is really good showcase for seduction by the Dark Side where person being seduced resists (Luke) and ROTS is a really good showcase for seduction by the Dark Side where person being seduced gives himself in. ST is about seduction by the Light so I'm very intrigued to see how the finale goes.

Also, ESB and ROTJ combined show Vader's redemption arc which does have "gets worse before he gets better" thing going. Gets worse is, of course, in ESB but sprinkled with goodness (attempt to save Luke's life by offering his turning as alternative to destroying him). ROTJ de facto shows that he mellowed:

From ESB's "apology accepted captain Needa" (Force chokes Needa) to "he is not as forgiving as I am" (doesn't hurt another officer who failed him). Speaking if, he already spared the admiral who failed him cause Luke became more important to him than strangling incompetent minions because he can.

From capturing Han and Leia and torturing/carbonizing Han to bait Luke, to letting their shuttle pass even though he knew Luke was on it.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun May 15, 2016 12:50 pm

,....And by saying to his son that he was right before he died.

Headache gone (without sedative only normal anti-headache aspirin + nap), ROTJ done.

I must say I really enjoyed it today - yes, even the Ewoks.
Though speaking strictly of movie making and storytelling point of view of OT - ESB tops this one by far, and ROTJ is the weakest of the three.
Too much sugar for my taste.
The first part of it is great action sequence and nice introduction, then the only part of the movie IMO that only matters is the showdown between Vader and Luke (+Palps).

Some great lines from Han ("than use your divine influence"), Jabba fun, and nothing much to add.

An interesting thing I have noticed today: Yoda says to Luke: you ll be the LAST of Jedi.....hmmmmmm

On the more funny side: due to all of sith going on around Falcon-Non-Falcon in Malin Head, I cought myself staring at the Falcon on TV for technical details.... lol!

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by vaderito on Sun May 15, 2016 2:23 pm

@Darth_Awakened I got an impression form ROTJ that Luke totally wasn't going to have family. He suffered a major blow that his love turned out to be his sister. The shock was laughably downplayed but that must've had serious consequences, hence Bloodline hinting at that Luke was travelling the galaxy searching for Jedi lore. Shall we say, trying to stay away from Leia as much as possible? Second, Yoda's line. Kid took it to heart and continued Yoda's work, which was easier considering the romantic shocker.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by vaderito on Sun May 15, 2016 2:35 pm

@Kylo Ren wrote:Luke is a Gandhi...Messiah...a spiritual mentor....like Yoda....they don't have corporal desires....
@Kylo Ren

well said!
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun May 15, 2016 4:15 pm

Agreed with both you.
I am more and more convinced that whole Reywalker idea was heavily influenced by EU stories and EU die hard fans (not all though).

In the OT (+ PT = where we have better insight what the old jedi way really means celibacy among other things), and having in mind that Luke was thought by Yoda and Obi - it is very clear to me that Luke himself chose to live a life of Jedi. Without emotional attachment - and completely devoted to explore and study the jedi history. In one word like a monk.

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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by vaderito on Sun May 15, 2016 4:32 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:Agreed with both you.
I am more and more convinced that whole Reywalker idea was heavily influenced by EU stories and EU die hard fans (not all though).

In the OT (+ PT = where we have better insight what the old jedi way really means celibacy among other things), and having in mind that Luke was thought by Yoda and Obi - it is very clear to me that Luke himself chose to live a life of Jedi. Without emotional attachment - and completely devoted to explore and study the jedi history. In one word like a monk.

@Darth_Awakened

Yep, and there could've been fear of turning, either him or his child. He probably thought leia and her child would be safe cause she didn't pursue Jedi training. But Ben was born a prodigy (Pablo says that much) and Snoke got to him re-starting the circle.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by Saracene on Mon May 16, 2016 3:32 am

@vaderito wrote:@Darth_Awakened I got an impression form ROTJ that Luke totally wasn't going to have family. He suffered a major blow that his love turned out to be his sister. The shock was laughably downplayed but that must've had serious consequences, hence Bloodline hinting at that Luke was travelling the galaxy searching for Jedi lore. Shall we say, trying to stay away from Leia as much as possible? Second, Yoda's line. Kid took it to heart and continued Yoda's work, which was easier considering the romantic shocker.
@vaderito

Luke in RoTJ always came off to me as very sexless, which is why the idea of him having a kid just never gelled with me, even back when I was still on the fence about Rey's parentage.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by vaderito on Mon May 16, 2016 6:59 am

@Kylo Ren wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@Darth_Awakened I got an impression form ROTJ that Luke totally wasn't going to have family. He suffered a major blow that his love turned out to be his sister. The shock was laughably downplayed but that must've had serious consequences, hence Bloodline hinting at that Luke was travelling the galaxy searching for Jedi lore. Shall we say, trying to stay away from Leia as much as possible? Second, Yoda's line. Kid took it to heart and continued Yoda's work, which was easier considering the romantic shocker.
@vaderito

Luke in RoTJ always came off to me as very sexless, which is why the idea of him having a kid just never gelled with me, even back when I was still on the fence about Rey's parentage.
@Saracene

Exactly!
Some say he is like conceded and stuff...but I didn´t get that....specially last few times I have seen it....he wears black, but not like Ani wore black...sexy leather and sex inviting....Luke is serene...at peace, passive....he does look more like a Force Ghost in RotJ than a man....his face is pretty much expressionless...I wouldn´t call him a Gray Jedi yet...but I do think he has known the dark side...
sometime I worry how I change my mind on things that I thought were set in stone...like thinking of Luke being a whinny brat...but this change in opinion was for the better...and I can argue I wasn´t really looking to see the truth...which is so very true...I never took OT or PT seriously before I have seen TFA (Han´s killing scene to be exact)...so all is good...And I learned something today Very Happy gotta look for beauty to see it...

However, I don´t like Luke´s expression at the end of TFA...WHAT the hell happened that he looks soooo distraught....hope I (Kylo Ren) didn´t do anything to throw him off that much....sith...that would be bad Razz
@Kylo Ren

It's possble that he swore off teaching ever again and than comes this girl who obviously want to be his student. Likely first thing that crossed his mind was "anaother failure" or something.

As for sexless Luke and his black clothes, perhaps that's what Kylo tried to emulate, the Knight Templar, priest-ness of Luke but than Rey happened and it all went out of the window?
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon May 16, 2016 7:08 am

@Kylo Ren wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@Darth_Awakened I got an impression form ROTJ that Luke totally wasn't going to have family. He suffered a major blow that his love turned out to be his sister. The shock was laughably downplayed but that must've had serious consequences, hence Bloodline hinting at that Luke was travelling the galaxy searching for Jedi lore. Shall we say, trying to stay away from Leia as much as possible? Second, Yoda's line. Kid took it to heart and continued Yoda's work, which was easier considering the romantic shocker.
@vaderito

Luke in RoTJ always came off to me as very sexless, which is why the idea of him having a kid just never gelled with me, even back when I was still on the fence about Rey's parentage.
@Saracene

Exactly!
Some say he is like conceded and stuff...but I didn´t get that....specially last few times I have seen it....he wears black, but not like Ani wore black...sexy leather and sex inviting....Luke is serene...at peace, passive....he does look more like a Force Ghost in RotJ than a man....his face is pretty much expressionless...I wouldn´t call him a Gray Jedi yet...but I do think he has known the dark side...
sometime I worry how I change my mind on things that I thought were set in stone...like thinking of Luke being a whinny brat...but this change in opinion was for the better...and I can argue I wasn´t really looking to see the truth...which is so very true...I never took OT or PT seriously before I have seen TFA (Han´s killing scene to be exact)...so all is good...And I learned something today Very Happy gotta look for beauty to see it...

However, I don´t like Luke´s expression at the end of TFA...WHAT the hell happened that he looks soooo distraught....hope I (Kylo Ren) didn´t do anything to throw him off that much....sith...that would be bad Razz
@Kylo Ren

My thoughts on Luke s expression at the end of TFA: He looked exactly like the man who just has suffered another personal tragedy (He felt through the force what happened to Han), and suddenly he is facing this girl strong in the force (he could sense it as well), who has in her han a very imprtant lightsaber (I would dare to say Anakin s, Luke s and Ben s lightsaber).
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by vaderito on Mon May 16, 2016 7:17 am

@Kylo Ren That makes him more of a Space God. Who now resides in a space paradise...and Space Adam and Eve come to him. Maybe his look meant "ohhh, sith, now my naughty nephew will come after his girl and my hut will explode from so much drama that I really don't need."
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon May 16, 2016 7:19 am

@Kylo Ren wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Kylo Ren wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@Darth_Awakened I got an impression form ROTJ that Luke totally wasn't going to have family. He suffered a major blow that his love turned out to be his sister. The shock was laughably downplayed but that must've had serious consequences, hence Bloodline hinting at that Luke was travelling the galaxy searching for Jedi lore. Shall we say, trying to stay away from Leia as much as possible? Second, Yoda's line. Kid took it to heart and continued Yoda's work, which was easier considering the romantic shocker.
@vaderito

Luke in RoTJ always came off to me as very sexless, which is why the idea of him having a kid just never gelled with me, even back when I was still on the fence about Rey's parentage.
@Saracene

Exactly!
Some say he is like conceded and stuff...but I didn´t get that....specially last few times I have seen it....he wears black, but not like Ani wore black...sexy leather and sex inviting....Luke is serene...at peace, passive....he does look more like a Force Ghost in RotJ than a man....his face is pretty much expressionless...I wouldn´t call him a Gray Jedi yet...but I do think he has known the dark side...
sometime I worry how I change my mind on things that I thought were set in stone...like thinking of Luke being a whinny brat...but this change in opinion was for the better...and I can argue I wasn´t really looking to see the truth...which is so very true...I never took OT or PT seriously before I have seen TFA (Han´s killing scene to be exact)...so all is good...And I learned something today Very Happy gotta look for beauty to see it...

However, I don´t like Luke´s expression at the end of TFA...WHAT the hell happened that he looks soooo distraught....hope I (Kylo Ren) didn´t do anything to throw him off that much....sith...that would be bad Razz
@Kylo Ren

My thoughts on Luke s expression at the end of TFA: He looked exactly like the man who just has suffered another personal tragedy (He felt through the force what happened to Han), and suddenly he is facing this girl strong in the force (he could sense it as well), who has in her han a very imprtant lightsaber (I would dare to say Anakin s, Luke s and Ben s lightsaber).
@Darth_Awakened

I would have to agree on that...after just watching the OT I have to say that Han and Luke were very much connected...more than friends (not in a romantic way) but you know...like family....I noticed that in ESB particularly....I can see Han´s death crushing him...and I can also see himself feeling responsible for that too...loosing Ben to the darkside that ultimately led to it...that guy really is Space Jesus...feeling responsible for all the bad sith in the Universe....
I have nothing but respect...
@Kylo Ren

Not only because of his friendship with Han - but because of Leia of course.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by vaderito on Mon May 16, 2016 7:28 am

@Kylo Ren wrote:@vaderito
ROFL ROFL ROFL

You know I can tie this again with the Father Son and Daughter....hahaha
Luke is the Father and he is here to make sure that the spiritual incarnations of the Daughter and the Son don´t kill the hell out of eachother but rather balance themselves in a sort of Yin/Yang manner....

@Darth_Awakened
Yes he felt Leia´s heart break too...
@Kylo Ren

Mortis is such a great thing they'd be fools not to use it in some capacity especially since Luke, Rey, Kylo literally write themselves into that.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by Irina de France on Mon May 16, 2016 8:55 am

All right, I watched ROTJ yesterday, and here are my thoughts. It gets long, though. There's also a few Bloodline spoilers. Just warning you.

Second Death Star? How unoriginal. *IRINA OUT*

I’ve said it before, but Darth Vader has a white space limo? Black is waaaay classier.

Darth Vader arrives, and he’s still as swaggy as ever.

“The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.” YUP. BIG TROUBLE.

Huge door and small knock. Yup, Threepio doesn’t want to be there.

I still wonder why a crime lord like Jabba lives on a planet in the middle of nowhere like Tattooine, but I guess that’s precisely the point.

Yeah, pink Twi’lek dude has a thing for droids. Just the way he runs his hands over Artoo…

Yup, Luke is clearly older than in Episode V.

I’m sorry, but Jabba’s pet something is way too Jim Henson-ish for this place.

Threepio, stating the obvious.

I have to say ROTJ starts in a way very similar to ANH. We get scenes of Vader bein’ evil, and we focus a lot on Threepio and Artoo.

Okay, that droid getting tortured is darkly funny.

Lol, it’s a matter of minutes before Jabba will get annoyed with Threepio XD

Threepio is so gay for Artoo. Like, so gay.

Weird blue elephant is way too Jim Henson-ish too.

Okay, the CGI aliens are going to age very, very badly. I can feel it.

And frankly, I don’t hate the weird singing aliens, because they admittedly fit well in Jabba’s palace. But yes, they’re annoying AF.

I feel so sorry for that green Twi’lek lady. Jabba eating a living critter at the same time is not helping either.

Leia is havin’ none of yo’ s***.

Leia is so tiny beside Chewbacca.

Threepio getting pushed by Jabba and falling is fake, and his screaming is not helping. But comic-relief-wise, it’s effective.

You know, I do wonder why Leia didn’t use that thermal detonator later on…

So I guess Lando has to stay undercover for as long as possible until the situation is very desperate? Which excludes Leia stuck in a metal bikini?

Yeah, just judging by the gait and the mannerisms, you can tell the weird alien who brought Chewie is a lady.

Yeah, I squealed when Leia took her helmet off.

Seriously, though, Luke and Leia in ANH looked like they didn’t age much in ESB, but they definitely look more adult in ROTJ. Luke still had a bit of a baby/boyish face which he lost in this film, and Leia’s face is thinner, and more shaped like Kylo’s.

LEIA USE THAT THERMAL DETONATOR ALREADY

Yeah, I can’t watch either, Threepio. That lick is just… gross.

WOOKIE HUG

Yeah, Han, I agree, Luke has no idea how to do a proper rescue plan.

Han definitely still has trouble with Force stuff, Jedi and all that gizmo. When he discovers Luke is becoming a Jedi Knight, he’s talking about “delusions of grandeur”. Yup. That’s not necessarily good for Ben and Han’s future relationship…

I REALLY hate what I’m going to say, but I have a crush on ROTJ!Luke. Man, he’s rocking that black outfit.

Wait… did he almost Force-choke one of the guards?

I’ll tell you one thing: I don’t mind the metal bikini that much, because it does fit with Jabba’s world. Do I think it’s unnecessary? Yes.

Can I please know why Luke is so chill all of a sudden? Well, I’m going to suppose him learning Vader is Daddy changed him…

Lando is taking risks by going towards Leia and offering some comfort… It’s really sweet, but I repeat, why isn’t he doing anything? WHY?

LUKE YOU’RE TERRIBLE AT RESCUING, GOD

Admittedly, it’s pretty awesome when he kills the beast. And its guardian crying is kinda funny too.

Poor Artoo is stuck being a snack bar.

“I’m taking care of everything.” “Oh. Great.” SAME, HAN. SAME.

GET YOUR HANDS OFF LEIA JABBA

Lol, the sarlacc looks like the alien plant from Little Shop of Horrors.

Han, insulting Jabba is not going to help. Even Luke looks so done. (Replace Han with Kylo and Luke with Rey, though. I could so see that happening at some point.)

The “Right?” at the end of Han’s speech is priceless.

Luke’s got some attitude. Man.

WHY DIDN’T YOU HAVE YOUR LIGHTSABER BEFORE, LUKE

WHAT A DRAMA QUEEN

YUP VERY SKYWALKER

Okay, Boba’s rope thing is awesomesauce.

And then how he gets projected out of the shuttle and straight into the pit… epic fail.

And of course, Leia is not losing any time. Better think twice before turning an action girl into a slave.

HUTTSLAYER

I’m so glad it made it into Bloodline.

This is really one of Leia’s crowning moments of awesome.

Yup, the lightsaber’s special effects look a lot better since ANH.

Nothing like a good old explosion.

I wonder what Han’s reaction was when he saw Leia in that bikini, though. Pretty guaranteed he got a good slap in the face.

Han thanks Luke… I kinda wish Leia did too. Sure, his rescue plan was s***, and all for the drama, but still… getting Han back was the first positive thing that happened to her since Alderaan getting blown up, tbh.

Well, the Emperor’s close guards’ helmet sure doesn’t look practical. (But according to Bloodline, it’s meant to be a trick?)

Man, the Emperor is deliciously hammy. It’s like he’s making up for Vader’s coldness. I don’t see much difference between him in ROTJ or in ROTS, since I know people complain about him chewing the scenery in the latter.

“Master Yoda, you can’t die” Aw. Luke sounds like a little boy here.

“No more training you require.” WELL WE’LL LET THE FUTURE DECIDE SHALL WE (I think the fact that Luke only had a few months of training as a Jedi really didn’t help Ben, but hey)

I guess he is one in spirit, though.

“Rest I need.” I HATE THAT LINE. AND I HATE WHAT FOLLOWS. It basically means: “YUP, YOUR DAD IS VADER, NOW ARRANGE YOURSELF TO KILL HIM AS OBI-WAN AND I HAVE PLANNED, EVEN THOUGH IT DOES SUCK A BIT YOU KNOW HE’S YOUR DAD NOW, LOLOL”

Yup, Luke couldn’t bring himself to kill his own father, the embodiment of evil. How can people seriously expect that Luke will participate in killing his nephew, especially when you know he’s technically spent more time with him than with Vader?

Admittedly, Yoda is kinda taking forever to die.

OBI-WAN, THE KING OF HALF-TRUTHS

You’re shady, Obi-Wan. You’re shady AF.

Nice parallels between Vader and Kylo here. Both of them and their masters (and Obi-Wan) treat their two personas (Anakin Skywalker/Ben Solo and Darth Vader/Kylo Ren) as separate entities. But Luke sees his father Anakin and Vader as the same person. Han sees Ben and Kylo as the same person. And I think that’s going to play a pivotal part in Kylo’s character development.

“There’s still good in him.” Luke and Leia say the same thing.

Guilt tripping Luke, Obi-Wan, congrats.

Okay, the reveal that Leia is Luke’s sister comes a bit out of nowhere, let’s face it. Bad writing, and it goes up to ANH.

I really like Lando and Han’s bromance. A lot.

I really like Mon Mothma too. I don’t know why.

So I think it’s Admiral Ackbar’s actor who’s died recently? RIP, then.

“She won’t get a scratch.” Yeah right.

Yeah, I can clearly see Lando is walking towards a screen.

Leia, you’re in love with a man who’s love with his frigging ship.

“Your work here is finished, my friend.” Holy sith, the Emperor isn’t even being subtle at this point. It’s so obvious he’s going to have Vader killed and Luke will take his place. I’m pretty sure Vader is aware of that as well.

When Luke says Vader is on the ship, you can clearly see Leia getting uneasy. Youch. She doesn’t know he’s her dad yet.

Yup, Han is very dismissive of Luke’s Force instincts when he senses he’s endangering the mission by his presence. Still not showing off well for Ben.

Look! Luke and Leia are twins! They’re wearing matching ponchos and hats! XD

“Be quiet! There might be people out there!” “Hey, it’s me!” Queue Luke and Leia looking at each other like: “*sigh* Well there’s nothing we can do, right?”

“I see them, wait, LEIAAAAA!” Yup, the teenage boy is back. XD

Yup, shooting Leia off her racer and then bumping into a tree. Now that’s what I call karma. XD

Confession time: I actually like the Ewoks. And it’s cute to see Leia being sweet with the one she meets. Well, as sweet as Leia can get. And she just leaves with him while taking his hand just like that XD

Is it just me, or is it the first time Vader refers as Luke as “my son” instead of “Young Skywalker”?

“I hope she’s alright.” Of course she is, Han, she’s with a bunch of teddy bears.

Okay, the whole net scene is hilarious.

Yup, Han is brash and impulsive. And he married Leia Frigging Organa. Poor Ben didn’t have a chance.

Okay, I kinda wonder why Chewie isn’t the Ewok god or something? Even though Threepio being the Ewok god is pretty funny.

Oh god, just Han’s face when he says: “Well why don’t you use your fine influence and get us out of this?” Absolutely priceless.

Stupid programming.

It’s insanely hilarious Han, Luke and Chewie are immediately classified as food, while you have Leia who at this point has all the Ewoks calling her mom, probably XD

Seriously, though, take a shot every time someone says “I have a bad feeling about this”.

Han obviously doesn’t like being surrounded by teddy bears.

Okay, how come Leia has another outfit? How could the Ewoks give her a dress? I mean, sure, Carrie, you can complain about your space mom changing outfit every 3 seconds, but at least she had the opportunity to do so.

Luke is being sassy again.

Lol, when Leia runs towards Han and kisses him, you can see all the Ewoks starting to ship them hardcore. XD

Great, since Leia is their mom, now the Ewoks are starting to think Han is dad. Poor Han XD

“It’s what I always wanted.” Yeah, Han doesn’t like the Ewoks very much. XD

So obviously, old Georgie messed up, since Leia remembers her mother while they were separated at birth. I theorized that maybe Breha Organa died when Leia was very young, but Bloodline makes it canon that Leia knew she wasn’t Bail and Breha’s daughter from the beginning and that she was a “war orphan”, and that Breha died when Alderaan was destroyed. So… the only way I think Leia remembers Padmé is that she dreamed of her, somehow. Well, Leia is Force-sensitive, after all. Still, pretty clumsy here.

“I have no memory of my mother.” And ironically, Luke is the one who resembles Padmé the most in character.

Leia has her father’s character, to an extent. She looks a bit like Padmé, but it’s not really glaring. She holds quite a bit from Shmi in looks imo.

“Somehow, I’ve always known.” OH REALLY? REMEMBER DAT KISS?

But frankly, it’s disappointing they don’t expand that much on Leia discovering Vader is her father. Sure, Bloodline expands on that plenty, but still.

Yup, Leia has definitely softened up since ANH. I don’t know if it’s the Ewok effect or the big reveal.

I can’t help but think Han is being a bit of a jerk here. But hey. He apologized.

“Hold me.” Yup, pretty sure they slept together that same night. (And I want a scene like that between Rey and Kylo. Every SW couple gets it anyway.)

The pacing of this film is slow. Not annoyingly so, but still.

SO MANY VADER/KYLO PARALLELS HERE, GOD

The difference is that not only Kylo doesn’t reach the deep darkness Vader reaches, but he isn’t as submissive to Snoke as Vader is towards the Emperor. Oh, Kylo still is submissive, to an extent, and he’s still very much groomed. But Luke’s influence on Vader only really manifests itself at the very end. Kylo is subtle, but you can see Rey has some influence already, even if she doesn’t actively try, and this only in the first film where we see him. He still has a will of his own and tries twisting his way around in order to get what he wants, very much like a child would do (like getting the girl instead of the droid, even though it’d be more practical to have the droid). Not to mention that he managed to resist for years and probably only let go when he was twenty-three… pretty damn long time if you ask me. The kid goes have some guts.

“Let go of your hate.” EXACTLY. THAT’S WHY ANAKIN HAD SO MANY PROBLEMS IN THE PAST. HE JUST DIDN’T LET GO.

“It is too late for me, son.” Vader is as impersonal as ever, but I do wonder what would have happened if we could see how he felt. Makes quite the difference with Kylo who’s all teary-eyed and with a voice like a little boy’s when he says something similar to Han.

True nature of the Force. Yup. Jedi and Sith both deal in extremes. Not good.

Yup, Vader is clearly not okay after his confrontation with Luke.

Wait, where are all the other rebels? Why are there only Ewoks?

Poe reminds me a lot of Lando. And Lando being the one destroying the second Death Star definitely parallels Poe destroying Starkiller base. So yeah, TFA had elements of ANH, but also ESB, ROTJ and a bit of ROTS.

That Ewok is having a blast on the speeder.

Han, as suave as always. Good old scoundrel tricks.

Oh, so there are the other rebels!

Okay, the Emperor is definitely looking as if Luke’s attempts to look defiant are absolutely adorable.

And he’s still chewing up the scenery. Ian McDiarmid is clearly having way too much fun.

“It is pointless to resist, my son.” I can’t help but wonder if that line is desperate or intimidating.

OH GOD, LOOK AT EVERYONE WAITING FOR HAN AND LEIA OUTSIDE…

Threepio does something really useful for once.

Okay, the Ewoks saving the day is sweet, but I’m more or less sure it’s realistic. They do provide a good enough distraction, though.

Yup, situation is not going well for the Rebellion.

“Good… I feel your anger…” I can get the whole seduction vibe here. Yes, it’s creepy.

The Ewoks and Chewie taking control of the tank is admittedly pretty awesome.

Han has the best facial expressions ever.

“I love you.” “I know.” I love that line.

Again, why are people so certain Luke will want to kill his nephew?

Like grandfather, like grandson. Conflict. Except Kylo’s even more glaring than Vader’s. I still don’t understand why people miss that.

Yeah, Luke better have a good reason to be hiding on Ahch-To. If he’s such a family guy as Vader describes, than why on Earth is he hiding there? Just look at him flipping out when Vader threatens to turn Leia. He just gives in so quickly. Just like Anakin turned Dark because of Padmé. Though that just might be the reason: he doesn’t want the FO to find him and brainwash him into becoming dark, because then the Resistance and the Republic would be pretty much screwed.

Let’s just say I see a pattern, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason why Ben turned Dark were a lot more personal than we are led to believe. I’m 99% certain it’s not just “to become as powerful as Darth Vader”.

Luke is really try to hurt Vader as much as he can when he hits until he tears his arm off. Youch.

I find it sad people don’t talk about it very much, but Luke cutting off Vader’s hand really makes him come to a realization. Even though Luke is more like Padmé in terms of character, he is like his father on many aspects. I’m pretty sure Luke spent days wondering why Darth Vader, his father, would cut off his son’s hand. And now, while he swore before never to kill his father, he wounded him, in the same way he got wounded. And that makes him realize that he is slipping, and fast.

Solo boys… much grace. XD

I have a feeling Snoke is going to hurt Rey at some point and Kylo is going to defend her. Sure, she ain’t a damsel in distress, but I’m pretty sure it’s going to happen.

Vader just looking at Luke getting tortured is plain creepy.

And then he finally snaps, and it’s when he realizes it’s Padmé’s baby dying. Like, I do think Vader/Anakin did have affection for Luke, but you know, he always loved Padmé more. And after the good old “NOOOOOOOOOOO!” he throws the Emperor into the ridiculously long chasm.

Sayonara, Pappy.

Not a scratch, Lando. Not a scratch.

God, Vader’s sure got to be heavy with all that gear. Luke can barely make it.

People around them are barely paying attention. They know it’s over.

Luke’s coat is open and you can see some white fabric. He’s all in black… instead at that part. And it’s near the heart.

Okay, Anakin’s face at that moment is just plain heartbreaking. He actually smiles at Luke, and it really looks sincere, but… his eyes are so sad. That’s probably the most emotional moment of the OT, hands down.

We can really see Han’s character development here. He’s actually decent with Leia and he tells her that if she chooses Luke, that’s fine… even though that would mean in that case Leia’s behavior towards him wasn’t really… considerate.

INCESTUAL REALIZATION OF HAN SOLO

Okay, the way they smile at each other is adorable.

Yup, the Ewoks ship them hardcore.

Tattooine… Naboo (WEESA FREE)… Coruscant… and Endor.

PARTY HARD WITH THE EWOKS

Yup, very much a Disney ending. No wonder they had to screw it up so bad for TFA.

ENJOY OUR HEROES BEING HAPPY WHILE YOU STILL CAN B***HES

Aw, ghost!Anakin looks so happy. Screw you, people who hate Hayden. He’s my bae.

AND THEY ALL LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER. NO THEY DIDN’T. *cackles*

***

All right, so let’s do an overall review of the OT.

So we got the good old Father and Son fairy tale structure here (Darth Vader and Luke), with the Hero’s Journey and all. The Hero (Luke) faces a temptation and resists it, and saves the day. You got a perfect rendition of the Princess and the Scoundrel trope with Han and Leia. Pretty simple story overall though still excellent, definitely more fairy tale than sci-fi.

ESB was definitely the best movie out of the three. I’m glad to see it’s not due to my Hanleia bias. Because I’ll tell you one thing: my OT baes were, and still are Han and Leia, and ESB is definitely their movie. ANH and ROTJ are pretty equal imo. They have their flaws, but they’re still good overall.

Mark Hamill did an overall good job at picturing the Hero’s Journey. His acting got better as the story progressed, though I must say I preferred him in ESB. He was good in ROTJ, but there was a little something he had in ESB that I couldn’t find in that movie.

Carrie Fisher definitely got better too. There were some times in ANH where I more or less felt it was “hit and miss”, but she was very good in ESB. ROTJ didn’t center much on Leia, unfortunately, since you had The Big Plot with Luke and Vader. As I said before, I wish they had spent more time with Leia dealing with the revelation of Vader being her father. But hey.

Harrison Ford was a very good find for Han Solo. I don’t see who would have done better than him. His best movie was once again ESB, and he got a bit mellowed in ROTJ. I’m not sure, once again, if he really is mellowed or if it’s just a case of the story not focusing much on him.

Chewie… come on, who doesn’t love Chewie?

Threepio and Artoo provided good comic relief and were relevant to the plot. Threepio sure got annoying at times, but it was more or less part of his charm. Weird to say, but true.

Billy Dee Williams was perfect from beginning to the end. Awesome human being in real life, and it showed itself in his character. It was really incredible how Lando was so considerate of people around him.

Let me also mention that Vader had a lot less funny mannerisms in ROTJ than in the other films, and I appreciated that.

I don’t mind the added CGI, to be honest. They’re details. But I have a feeling a lot of the CGI aliens are going to age very badly. Same for Vader yelling: “NOOOOOO”. Sure, it’s narmy af, but I can deal with it. It’s a detail.

Oh, one last thing: I have to say something about redemption arcs. There’s a reason why Darth Vader redeemed himself by dying for his son. He spent most of the trilogy being evil, and didn’t show any true signs of wanting to change. Sure, we’ve seen him waver in ROTJ, but it still wasn’t enough. So if your evil character keeps on being bad during most of the story and does a last-minute good thing, well, expect him to die, because he won’t have time to expiate for the bad deeds he has done and satisfy the audience.

For Kylo, however, it might be another matter. I don’t think unlike some people that he’s going to become more evil. It’s pretty much guaranteed he’ll get a redemption arc, and if he goes from bad to worse in this trilogy (like if Renperor happened – I know you’re going to tell me you could have Renperor being a morally grey character, but this is SW. Not GoT), it’s going to be Vader all over again. And Heaven knows I don’t want an OT rehash for the ST. I believe his redemption arc has been initiated in TFA. However, I’ll tell you one thing: he has to expiate for a lot of things. So get ready to see him suffer in VIII and IX, because getting your face slashed by your potentially future girlfriend is not enough, compared to what he has done. It’s just the beginning. So yes, I know some people are not going to like what I’m going to say, but I expect him to be losing a hand. He needs some triggers to get him to really change and get a redemption, because that’s a journey he has to do by himself. Rey can help, but she’s not going to do the work for him. And such a journey comes with pain.

Yup, that’s pretty much all I have to say.
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Irina de France
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by snufkin on Mon May 16, 2016 11:57 am

@Irina de France wrote:All right, I watched ROTJ yesterday, and here are my thoughts. It gets long, though. There's also a few Bloodline spoilers. Just warning you.

Poe reminds me a lot of Lando. And Lando being the one destroying the second Death Star definitely parallels Poe destroying Starkiller base. So yeah, TFA had elements of ANH, but also ESB, ROTJ and a bit of ROTS.

I have a feeling Snoke is going to hurt Rey at some point and Kylo is going to defend her. Sure, she ain’t a damsel in distress, but I’m pretty sure it’s going to happen.



Poe really is kind of the Lando for the new series!

And it wouldn't be surprising when Rey comes face to face with Snoke that he uses some variation of "You're a feisty little one, but you'll soon learn some respect." line from this one.
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Re: Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: RETURN OF THE JEDI

Post by vaderito on Mon May 16, 2016 12:35 pm

@Irina de France About Kylo being less submissive. I guess Snoke isn't stupid to ask a Prince to kneel before him. Palp could do anything with little slave boy turned Jedi but Kylo is a Prince and son of 2 heroes and, yes, Lord Vader and Queen Amdiala's grandson. A royalty. You can't wipe the floor with that.
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