Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Gemini on Tue 5 Apr - 16:45

slamming his helmet into those ashes (before I knew what they were even) to me looked symbolic of the helmet dying and being left in the ashes of history..
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by MoonlitMoss on Tue 5 Apr - 16:45

Reminder - personal attacks and bashing are not allowed on this forum.

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Little_Boots on Tue 5 Apr - 16:46

@Gemini wrote:slamming his helmet into those ashes (before I knew what they were even) to me looked symbolic of the helmet dying and being left in the ashes of history..
@Gemini

Well I must admit that I felt the same thing when I watched it and I did mention it before, it was sort of a "screw you for now helmet"!! Moment. The news today sort of scared me, it was creepy but you guys seem to be explaining things much better.
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by IoJovi on Tue 5 Apr - 16:49

@Little Boots I just wanted to yell to you today, "Come back to the light!!!"

Laughing

I does warm my heart that you are feeling better. I was saddened at how upset you were.
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by MyOnlyHope on Tue 5 Apr - 16:52

Guys, the ashes really don't matter. They aren't connected to some bigger plot point. We're never going to see or hear about them again.
They contribute minutely to Kylo's characterization. That's all. Kylo's been trying to envelop himself in darkness to stop the light's seduction for years.

The ashes are about as important as Rey's little desert flower, an object we also received an explanation for. Rey collected flowers in the desert to remind herself that beauty could be found everywhere, even on desolate Jakku. Both the ashes and the flowers represent aspects of Kylo and Rey's "ordinary worlds." On Jakku, Rey did everything she could to keep herself happy and hopeful so she could endure her loneliness. While in the service of Snoke, Kylo did everything he could, including torturing and murdering, to fuel his anger and supplement his "immunity" to the light. Both Rey and Kylo were living lies. Rey already subconsciously knew her family was never coming back. Kylo knew the light would never stop seducing him.


Last edited by MyOnlyHope on Tue 5 Apr - 16:58; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Little_Boots on Tue 5 Apr - 16:54

@IoJovi wrote:@Little Boots I just wanted to yell to you today, "Come back to the light!!!"

Laughing

I does warm my heart that you are feeling better. I was saddened at how upset you were.
@IoJovi

Awe that's cool! Yea it was just something unexpected and it felt like it was canon. I was refusing to acknowledge that it was ultimately scrapped and I didn't acknowledge the fact that JJ spoke so nonchalantly about it, which now that I think about it speaks volumes.
My mind went straight to Silence of the Lambs which scared the hell out of me I was unfortunate to be allowed watch that film at a very young age.
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by BastilaBey on Tue 5 Apr - 16:55

@little_boots I felt the same way at first - I think having the image of an unmasked Kylo standing over the ashes made it seem more canon even though we know it isn't really. That and how I just know this will be added to any anti's list of reasons why he could never ever be redeemed. Which shouldn't matter but somehow does
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by IoJovi on Tue 5 Apr - 16:58

@Little_Boots wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:@Little Boots I just wanted to yell to you today, "Come back to the light!!!"

Laughing

I does warm my heart that you are feeling better. I was saddened at how upset you were.
@IoJovi

Awe that's cool! Yea it was just something unexpected and it felt like it was canon. I was refusing to acknowledge that it was ultimately scrapped and I didn't acknowledge the fact that JJ spoke so nonchalantly about it, which now that I think about it speaks volumes.
My mind went straight to Silence of the Lambs which scared the hell out of me I was unfortunate to be allowed watch that film at a very young age.
@Little_Boots

I watched TFA twice on Friday when I got my digital copy. No way did they paint Ren as a psycho Buffalo Bob type. His characterization is 100% as I remember it from my first viewings in the theater. You need not worry! sunny
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Little_Boots on Tue 5 Apr - 17:00

I think some people need this


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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by AnneNeville on Tue 5 Apr - 17:01

No need to get worked up about an idea that was binned in production.
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 5 Apr - 17:12

@AnneNeville wrote:No need to get worked up about an idea that was binned in production.
@AnneNeville
Exactly. This is no different from Chewie ripping Unkar's arm off. If it was important, JJ wouldn't be talking about it so freely. He acted like it was just a bit of unused trivia, and that he was glad he was able to use the shot because he liked it, even if that part of the scene was cut.
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 5 Apr - 17:15

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Kessel on Tue 5 Apr - 17:18

Anyone notice how Kylo doesn't have his surcoat (or belt, I think...) on in that cut 'table of ashes' scene? He's more 'casual Kylo.'
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by IoJovi on Tue 5 Apr - 17:23

Kessel89 wrote:Anyone notice how Kylo doesn't have his surcoat (or belt, I think...) on in that cut 'table of ashes' scene? He's more 'casual Kylo.'
@Kessel89

Laughing

How many layers does that man wear? Seriously? I need to find out...
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Miyu on Tue 5 Apr - 17:26

Kessel89 wrote:Anyone notice how Kylo doesn't have his surcoat (or belt, I think...) on in that cut 'table of ashes' scene? He's more 'casual Kylo.'
@Kessel89

Maybe he wanted to be comfy before talking to his dear grandpa Smile

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Gemini on Tue 5 Apr - 17:41

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by SanghaRen on Tue 5 Apr - 17:49

@panki: Malachor is mentioned in the Visual Dictionary too, right? Seems to be am important piece of the puzzle.

I still have my issue with Benicio del Toro playing Ezra. It could make sense in the narrative and he does look the part, but I just wonder how to include him in a way that both the people who know Rebels and the ones who don't are satisfied with his introduction. I guess RJ would find a way.
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by ReyofLightSide on Tue 5 Apr - 18:04

@Gemini

I read the article about the ashes today on Yahoo and went "WTF??"
I feel better after coming here.
And yes, the part about how he is unmasking for her is screaming Reylo to me!
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Kalianah on Tue 5 Apr - 18:05

@Gemini

it lends credence to Reylo how, besides the fact that he was always going to unmask for Rey. we already knew that I thought?

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 5 Apr - 18:10

@Kalianah wrote:
@Gemini

it lends credence to Reylo how, besides the fact that he was always going to unmask for Rey. we already knew that I thought?

@Kalianah

I want to be convinced.

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 5 Apr - 18:17

@Kalianah wrote:
@Gemini

it lends credence to Reylo how, besides the fact that he was always going to unmask for Rey. we already knew that I thought?

@Kalianah
JJ confirms that it was "always" the plan to have Ren unmask for Rey. Abrams had never commented on it before. Antis frequently say that it was a "mistake" on JJ's part, that he should have saved the unmasking for Han alone. Well, this was the idea all along, as we've all been saying for months, and JJ just corroborated that.

The backstory of the ashes was not included in the film, therefore it was omitted at some point during production. JJ just found a use for the shot because he thought it was boring to have Kylo put the mask down somewhere uninteresting. It's just a bit of trivia. As I've said a bunch of times, if it was important JJ wouldn't be talking about it at all. The ashes are gone (destroyed with Starkiller Base).

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by ReyofLightSide on Tue 5 Apr - 18:19

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Kalianah wrote:
@Gemini

it lends credence to Reylo how, besides the fact that he was always going to unmask for Rey. we already knew that I thought?

@Kalianah
JJ confirms that it was "always" the plan to have Ren unmask for Rey. Abrams had never commented on it before. Antis frequently say that it was a "mistake" on JJ's part, that he should have saved the unmasking for Han alone. Well, this was the idea all along, as we've all been saying for months, and JJ just corroborated that.

The backstory of the ashes was not included in the film, therefore it was omitted at some point during production. JJ just found a use for the shot because he thought it was boring to have Kylo put the mask down somewhere uninteresting. It's just a bit of trivia. As I've said a bunch of times, if it was important JJ wouldn't be talking about it at all. The ashes are gone (destroyed with Starkiller Base).

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes, and it sound like the only change they had was that we would first see Kylo unmasked when he unmasks for Rey- not with Han, not talking to the Vader helmet, not with Snoke- but with Rey.
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by panki on Tue 5 Apr - 19:05

@SanghaRen wrote:@panki: Malachor is mentioned in the Visual Dictionary too, right? Seems to be am important piece of the puzzle.

I still have my issue with Benicio del Toro playing Ezra. It could make sense in the narrative and he does look the part, but I just wonder how to include him in a way that both the people who know Rebels and the ones who don't are satisfied with his introduction. I guess RJ would find a way.


I think Malachor is also mentioned in the Visual Dictionary....I need to read it again to be sure.

I feel a good way to bring Ezra into the story is just bring a character called Ezra and not bring in his past but just deal with an existing situation....Luke is the last jedi so we know Ezra never became a jedi...maybe they can have a KOR named Ezra or maybe Leia approaches a bounty hunter named Ezra for help with the resistance......then the Rebels fans will be happy to see the character brought to life....and those who don't watch wont have to feel left out because they wont need to know his past.....I'm speculating here. Smile

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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by Reynak on Tue 5 Apr - 19:42

@Gemini wrote:slamming his helmet into those ashes (before I knew what they were even) to me looked symbolic of the helmet dying and being left in the ashes of history..
@Gemini

For me what was most telling was how heavy it seemed, I saw that as something sybolic of the weight the DS exerted on him.That it was a curse rather than a choice for him. That helmete is a metaphor of the prison he is in and can't escape. There's a heavy feeling of doom over him. Discarding that helmet, he'd have the chance to become Ben but he can't or doesn't allow himself to do it.
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Re: Kylo's Mask and the Ashes

Post by vaderito on Tue 5 Apr - 20:36

Guys, I'm seriously baffled that first thing that crossed some people's minds here, including most rational posters, is that collecting ashes = Kylo the Ripper instead of Kylo's warrior ritual. He's a warrior. Warriors have rituals that include taking "souvenirs" from their enemies as a symbol of defeating the enemy. Are you calling The Sitting Bull, Geronimo, Crazy Horse, Cochise, etc lunatics for scalping their enemies and keeping those scalps as trophies, carrying them attached to their belts? Those are warrior rituals. Kylo is a Knight of Ren so you bet that this is connected to enemies he defeated in battle. Remember that warrior elite, the Jedi, practice cremation as their burial ritual? Vader, Qui Gonn were cremated. In ancient times, fallen enemy was gathered, cremated and their ashes spread all over the place. In other cultures, warriors practiced sticking severed heads on a pike, which is a form of collecting enemy body parts as trophies.

So relax. You are blowing this out of proportion. It's a trivia that most people won't know about. It just shows how removed from real life Internet is. Nobody outside of the Internet even remembers those ashes.
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