Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 22 May - 9:16

When it comes to fanfiction scenarios, I really love the idea of Empress Rey, for some reason. I enjoy it a lot more than the idea of Kylo as an Emperor. I don't know why exactly. I guess I can easily imagine a thrilling trajectory where the secretly powerful scavenger girl from nowhere is destined to rule the world.

Now, I don't doubt Adam could play an Emperor really, really well, though.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 22 May - 9:24

Darth Dingbat wrote:@SoloSideCousin: All very good points, and that would certainly be an interesting story in its own right. Not one I expected from this trilogy, but still.

I didn't really mean that Kylo came across as a fumbling idiot whom nobody respects at all. But I also didn't see him as a true leader figure. He's scary, that's what he is. A brooding and intimidating figure. Like you say, he was like the grim reaper on Jakku. Hux resents him. His men fear him and his tantrums. That his men hesitate to approach him to inform him about problems he should be made aware of makes him incredibly poor leader material, IMO. Someone pragmatic like Palpatine would listen and then deal with those problems efficiently asap.

But then, I guess we just don't have enough material to tell what kind of a leader he'd be. My point really just is that the character development we saw in TFA didn't come across to me as a man on a journey to overcoming his weaknesses and taking on the mantle of a leader. He went from that grim reaper to a broken man in the end, not the other way round. If a Renperor plot is coming, I still see absolutely nothing in TFA that set one up, apart from one ambiguous like about finishing what Vader started which might refer to anything (and, considering that the film is about an awakening in the Force, would seem more likely to refer to balancing the Force which was really Anakin's "job" that obviously didn't quite succeed).

And if Episode VIII is in large part going to be about the mystical Force plot on Ahch-To, I'm not sure when exactly this pragmatic journey of a grey Renperor is supposed to take place.
@Darth Dingbat

I absolutely get what you're saying.  I too think his storyline is much more about balancing the force than being a governor over people.  But because of some of the stuff in the Visual Dictionary and because I can definitely see a scenario where Kylo kills Hux, thereby leaving a power vacuum (since Snoke doesn't seem able to be in public like Ren or Hux can), I wanted to explore the concept just to see where it went.  I definitely think that in the "kill Hux" scenario, he might not be ready just yet to rule anything, but at the same time he might do okay with it because he might actually change the trajectory of the FO for the better, by stopping destruction of planets, by destroying the FO and/or by talking with his mother, all things Hux would never do.
 
We definitely don't know enough about what kind of leader he is or could be.  I assume he's done okay with his special ops teams and the KoR, but those are small operations obviously. I assume once he gets his emotional act together he should be extraordinary too like his parents and grandparents.  And no question, he was unraveling in TFA ... but his unraveling and being presented with his Ben Solo/light self forces him to actually acknowledge both light and dark in himself.  That unraveling and facing himself is like that drug addict's rock bottom and looking his demons in the face.  He really can only go up from killing his Dad and getting totally defeated by Rey IMO (that's why you and I don't like those spoilers because there is too much "reset button" in them ... and happily I am getting more confident that there is a lot of BS in them because I really don't think Snoke would want Rey dead.  He would want her before him.  As such, Kylo's not going to try to kill her.  That part's wrong.  Maybe some of the rest is wrong too?).  Had he gone down so badly at the end of the trilogy, obviously he would be done.  But to go down this badly in Part 1 or 3 tells me that he is going to rise pretty significantly in Episodes VIII and IX.  He's got a lot of potential to fulfill.  I honestly don't know where it's going to go, but it's got to go somewhere.  Is he going to be strictly force-oriented and Rey-oriented or can we add on something else, like politics?  Then if you think things might go past Episode IX, which I definitely do, his future has even more possibilities.  He is such an interesting character that he can go in a lot of directions and I like to work out some of those possibilities in my head no matter the direction.  It's a creative thing and it's fun to think of how to make various scenarios work.  :-)  That's why I'm open from everything from MacArthur to being forceless in the Outer Rim to being the dark side counselor working with Luke and Rey.  Kylo/Ben just seems to have a flexibility other characters don't to me.  I think it's probably because he straddles that dark/light line, so in that sense he is not pigeon-holed into one corner or another.  You can't talk "ruler" about Finn, and you can't talk compassionate, but no nonsense counselor about Hux ... but you can do both with Kylo/Ben. :-)
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by vaderito on Sun 22 May - 9:26

Darth Dingbat wrote:When it comes to fanfiction scenarios, I really love the idea of Empress Rey, for some reason. I enjoy it a lot more than the idea of Kylo as an Emperor. I don't know why exactly. I guess I can easily imagine a thrilling trajectory where the secretly powerful scavenger girl from nowhere is destined to rule the world.

Now, I don't doubt Adam could play an Emperor really, really well, though.
@Darth Dingbat

Cause you know that in Reylo scenario Kylo/Ben would be a bada** stay at home dad and Rey would be the bada** Empress/Jedi.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Reynak on Sun 22 May - 9:28

panki wrote:
ZenBrainJam wrote:The fact is FO itself is based upon stolen children trained to become stormtrooper. This for me is a huge problem. If you have really large consensus you don't need to raise children into soldier because adults will join willingly your army and cause like into the resistence. But if you need to raise your army, with indoctrination and all, fantasy or not you can't tell me that your system is for the greater good. The good of who? Of the families without their kids, of the weaker and oppressed of the galaxy, or just your greater good, aka your need and thirst for power?
@ZenBrainJam

The FO probably thinks those families are making a small sacrifice for the greater good by "contributing" their children to the FO cause....even most the sith like Palpatine and Dooku went to the dark side because they felt they needed to make the galaxy a better place....when the mind wants to see something a certain way, it will justify all kinds of actions, no matter how terrible...

Speaking of terrible, has anyone else noticed that the alien population in the SW universe has reduced with each succeeding trilogy and now we mostly see humans? In the PT, there were so many around...but I think the Separatists, the Empire and now the FO has wiped out whole planets of species (Geonosians, Lasats, Mahrans etc). No
@panki

Maybe, but I tend to think they fear the Jar Jar effect, LOL. They are afraid the viewers won't like ewooks and Jar Jar like aliens.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by ZenBrainJam on Sun 22 May - 9:37

vaderito wrote:
Darth Dingbat wrote:When it comes to fanfiction scenarios, I really love the idea of Empress Rey, for some reason. I enjoy it a lot more than the idea of Kylo as an Emperor. I don't know why exactly. I guess I can easily imagine a thrilling trajectory where the secretly powerful scavenger girl from nowhere is destined to rule the world.

Now, I don't doubt Adam could play an Emperor really, really well, though.
@Darth Dingbat

Cause you know that in Reylo scenario Kylo/Ben would be a bada** stay at home dad and Rey would be the bada** Empress/Jedi.
@vaderito

For now I can't see Rey ruling anything, she is good at surviving and fighting but ruling a galaxy not yet, maybe not at all. I don't think she could be interested. But maybe in VIII we will see a different, more mature, more politically oriented Rey, IDK...
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Reynak on Sun 22 May - 9:42

Darth Dingbat wrote:When it comes to fanfiction scenarios, I really love the idea of Empress Rey, for some reason. I enjoy it a lot more than the idea of Kylo as an Emperor. I don't know why exactly. I guess I can easily imagine a thrilling trajectory where the secretly powerful scavenger girl from nowhere is destined to rule the world.

Now, I don't doubt Adam could play an Emperor really, really well, though.
@Darth Dingbat

Some horrible totalitarian rulers in our not so distant past had humble origins like Rey, which made them even worse, probably because the ones who rise to power from low social status often get power-crazed even more easily than those brought up in families with more means. This has happened and still happens.

If our Rey of sunshine becomes an empress while flirting with the DS it may work story wise but I think it is bad in itself. I don't mind if she does it for the "greater good" because all tyrants have thought that at some point. Unless you think the goal justifies the means an empire or a FS type regime belongs in the DS and is evil in itself. In SW the empire has always been seen as evil and the Resistane existed because of that. What would make the franchise's views change now?

The FO looks too much like a fascist regime to make me suspect it may be seen as other than Dark/bad. The empire was just as bad and the sole idea of an empire is twisted in itself, so having Rey as the supreme leader/empress won't change the fact that having supreme leaders or emperors, whoever they are, is Dark as hell.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Mana on Sun 22 May - 9:53

Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by ZenBrainJam on Sun 22 May - 9:55

Mana wrote:Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
@Mana

Being honest, her characterization worries me a bit, but I am optimistic...
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Mana on Sun 22 May - 9:59

ZenBrainJam wrote:
Mana wrote:Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
@Mana

Being honest, her characterization worries me a bit, but I am optimistic...
@ZenBrainJam

I trust Rian to make her a great character, its not enough to be likeable and bad***....
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 22 May - 10:05

SoloSideCousin wrote:Had he gone down so badly at the end of the trilogy, obviously he would be done.  But to go down this badly in Part 1 or 3 tells me that he is going to rise pretty significantly in Episodes VIII and IX.  He's got a lot of potential to fulfill.  I honestly don't know where it's going to go, but it's got to go somewhere.
@SoloSideCousin

I know what you mean. I guess I've been (not-so-)secretly hoping that Kylo's trajectory would ultimately turn out to be a heroic one, rather than a simple redemption arc. From a "weak villain" to a powerful hero. Fulfilling his potential, as you say. Becoming the man he should be. This appeals to me because it would be a difficult story to pull off, but if done well, it could be incredibly powerful. This could also be done without reducing Rey's role as the central character of the story. If the story is about Renperor's rise to power, it's hard to imagine how you can keep Rey in the most central role.

Who knows, though. Sometimes I wonder whether everything we saw in TFA is going to be reset going forward and we'll get a completely new story. Probably an interesting one, but one that renders what we saw in TFA meaningless. I hope not.

I keep harping on this but, at the end of the day, Kylo did kill his own father. If he killed his own father in order to get more power, then Han and Leia's son is doomed. I really think it's as simple as that. For all the talk about a "weird" script, I doubt we're getting anything especially complex. A nuanced story, I hope, but not a terribly complicated one.

@Reynak: I definitely don't see Empress Rey happening, and I certainly don't think a female totalitarian ruler would be any better than a male one. (Well... countries have historically prospered under reigning queens... but I digress.) I just meant that I'd see Rey's journey from a scavenger girl to a ruler as a more interesting story than Kylo's rise to power, as fanfiction.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Reynak on Sun 22 May - 10:07

Mana wrote:Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
@Mana

She needs some risks to grow as a character but who can see a girl in her early twenties rise to power as an empress? She would be inexperienced and would have no education, knowledge or skill as a ruler. What's more, she could only reach that level of power through the DS and usurping the "legitimate" right the peoples of the galaxy gave to the Republic to rule them.

Ren is too young to rule an empire, or to be a president or a prime minister, with Rey this would be ridiculous given her age. If she becomes a ruler due to either heritage or because she is FS it will suggest a dangerous message of supremacy due to bloodline or special powers. This is not only Dark and problematic but also difficult to seem believable. If she was older it could work but Daisy is very young and Rey is little more than a kid.


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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Mana on Sun 22 May - 10:10

Reynak wrote:
Mana wrote:Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
@Mana

She needs some risks to grow as a character but who can see a girl in her early twenties rise to power as an empress? She would be inexperienced and would have no education, knowledge or skill as a rule? What's more, she could only reach that lever of power through the DS and usurping the "legitimate" right the peoples of the galaxy gave to the Republic to rule them.

Ren is too young to rule an empire, or to be a president or a prime minister, with Rey this would be ridiculous given her age. If she becomes a ruler due to either heritage or because she is FS it will suggest a dangerous message of supremacy due to bloodline or special powers. This is not only Dark and problematic but also difficult to seem believable. If she was older ir could work but Daisy is very young and Rey is little more than a kid.
@Reynak

I didn't mean it literally, of course Reympress is not something that's going to come out of nowhere. Its possible for her to turn dark and have ambitions of becoming Reympress...
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 22 May - 10:21

Mana wrote:
Reynak wrote:
Mana wrote:Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
@Mana

She needs some risks to grow as a character but who can see a girl in her early twenties rise to power as an empress? She would be inexperienced and would have no education, knowledge or skill as a rule? What's more, she could only reach that lever of power through the DS and usurping the "legitimate" right the peoples of the galaxy gave to the Republic to rule them.

Ren is too young to rule an empire, or to be a president or a prime minister, with Rey this would be ridiculous given her age. If she becomes a ruler due to either heritage or because she is FS it will suggest a dangerous message of supremacy due to bloodline or special powers. This is not only Dark and problematic but also difficult to seem believable. If she was older ir could work but Daisy is very young and Rey is little more than a kid.
@Reynak

I didn't mean it literally, of course Reympress is not something that's going to come out of nowhere. Its possible for her to turn dark and have ambitions of becoming Reympress...
@Mana

Or she might turn out to be Palpatine's granddaughter after all, in which case her rise to power would be no different from any other heir in history inheriting a kingdom at a young age Razz

Of course, such a reign would be a Dark Side one. And of course it's not happening, unless Rey is tempted by power at some point but ultimately rejects it. Like I've said in this thread several times, there's no way Star Wars is going to put a positive spin on a totalitarian regime. If they were trying to present a complex political situation in TFA, they failed miserably, because the FO that we saw is even more cartoonishly fascist than the OT Empire.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Reynak on Sun 22 May - 10:27

Darth Dingbat wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:Had he gone down so badly at the end of the trilogy, obviously he would be done.  But to go down this badly in Part 1 or 3 tells me that he is going to rise pretty significantly in Episodes VIII and IX.  He's got a lot of potential to fulfill.  I honestly don't know where it's going to go, but it's got to go somewhere.
@SoloSideCousin

I know what you mean. I guess I've been (not-so-)secretly hoping that Kylo's trajectory would ultimately turn out to be a heroic one, rather than a simple redemption arc. From a "weak villain" to a powerful hero. Fulfilling his potential, as you say. Becoming the man he should be. This appeals to me because it would be a difficult story to pull off, but if done well, it could be incredibly powerful. This could also be done without reducing Rey's role as the central character of the story. If the story is about Renperor's rise to power, it's hard to imagine how you can keep Rey in the most central role.

Who knows, though. Sometimes I wonder whether everything we saw in TFA is going to be reset going forward and we'll get a completely new story. Probably an interesting one, but one that renders what we saw in TFA meaningless. I hope not.

I keep harping on this but, at the end of the day, Kylo did kill his own father. If he killed his own father in order to get more power, then Han and Leia's son is doomed. I really think it's as simple as that. For all the talk about a "weird" script, I doubt we're getting anything especially complex. A nuanced story, I hope, but not a terribly complicated one.

@Reynak: I definitely don't see Empress Rey happening, and I certainly don't think a female totalitarian ruler would be any better than a male one. (Well... countries have historically prospered under reigning queens... but I digress.) I just meant that I'd see Rey's journey from a scavenger girl to a ruler as a more interesting story than Kylo's rise to power, as fanfiction.
@Darth Dingbat

I had to highlight the bloded part because I agree so much I could only nod while reading it.
As for the queens, it would make an intersting topic to discuss because some are queens but there's still a government in their countries ( like in Britain), they don't really rule. In the past there were intelligent queens that could be considered good rulers but this wouldn't work for SW as it would be regressive. After having a Republic, however corrupted it became, reversing into a more regressive regime seems terrible. It gives me the chills and makes me think of present day examples of countries that are now under medieval-like totalitarian regimes that claim fundamentalism or any other fanatic notions justify their supremacy and the power they wield.

The idea of any sort of totalitarian regime is bone chilling for me. We don't have to look that far to see examples of people who claimed their cause was just or they ruled for the greater good and did horrible things in the name of their cause. Perhaps they believed it perhaps it was an excuse to perpetuate themselves as rulers, it makes no difference. Two much power concentrated in too few hads is a bad idea as well a a person or group of people ruling for too long. Unfortunately power corrupts even the best people to some extent.


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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by ZenBrainJam on Sun 22 May - 10:40

Darth Dingbat wrote:
Mana wrote:
Reynak wrote:
Mana wrote:Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
@Mana

She needs some risks to grow as a character but who can see a girl in her early twenties rise to power as an empress? She would be inexperienced and would have no education, knowledge or skill as a rule? What's more, she could only reach that lever of power through the DS and usurping the "legitimate" right the peoples of the galaxy gave to the Republic to rule them.

Ren is too young to rule an empire, or to be a president or a prime minister, with Rey this would be ridiculous given her age. If she becomes a ruler due to either heritage or because she is FS it will suggest a dangerous message of supremacy due to bloodline or special powers. This is not only Dark and problematic but also difficult to seem believable. If she was older ir could work but Daisy is very young and Rey is little more than a kid.
@Reynak

I didn't mean it literally, of course Reympress is not something that's going to come out of nowhere. Its possible for her to turn dark and have ambitions of becoming Reympress...
@Mana

Or she might turn out to be Palpatine's granddaughter after all, in which case her rise to power would be no different from any other heir in history inheriting a kingdom at a young age Razz

Of course, such a reign would be a Dark Side one. And of course it's not happening, unless Rey is tempted by power at some point but ultimately rejects it. Like I've said in this thread several times, there's no way Star Wars is going to put a positive spin on a totalitarian regime. If they were trying to present a complex political situation in TFA, they failed miserably, because the FO that we saw is even more cartoonishly fascist than the OT Empire.
@Darth Dingbat

Well this thing about Rey being granddaughter of Palpy so automatically inherited an empire is not so convincing for me.
First of all, she could not be interested and totally reject such an evil lineage disgusted and afraid.
Second, others could not agreeing to her being their leader.
But I can see a war to put/don't put her on the throne without asking her anything, and that would be interesting and fun to see.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 22 May - 10:44

ZenBrainJam wrote:
Darth Dingbat wrote:
Mana wrote:
Reynak wrote:
Mana wrote:Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
@Mana

She needs some risks to grow as a character but who can see a girl in her early twenties rise to power as an empress? She would be inexperienced and would have no education, knowledge or skill as a rule? What's more, she could only reach that lever of power through the DS and usurping the "legitimate" right the peoples of the galaxy gave to the Republic to rule them.

Ren is too young to rule an empire, or to be a president or a prime minister, with Rey this would be ridiculous given her age. If she becomes a ruler due to either heritage or because she is FS it will suggest a dangerous message of supremacy due to bloodline or special powers. This is not only Dark and problematic but also difficult to seem believable. If she was older ir could work but Daisy is very young and Rey is little more than a kid.
@Reynak

I didn't mean it literally, of course Reympress is not something that's going to come out of nowhere. Its possible for her to turn dark and have ambitions of becoming Reympress...
@Mana

Or she might turn out to be Palpatine's granddaughter after all, in which case her rise to power would be no different from any other heir in history inheriting a kingdom at a young age Razz

Of course, such a reign would be a Dark Side one. And of course it's not happening, unless Rey is tempted by power at some point but ultimately rejects it. Like I've said in this thread several times, there's no way Star Wars is going to put a positive spin on a totalitarian regime. If they were trying to present a complex political situation in TFA, they failed miserably, because the FO that we saw is even more cartoonishly fascist than the OT Empire.
@Darth Dingbat

Well this thing about Rey being granddaughter of Palpy so automatically inherited an empire is not so convincing for me.
First of all, she could not be interested and totally reject such an evil lineage disgusted and afraid.
Second, others could not agreeing to her being their leader.
But I can see a war to put/don't put her on the throne without asking her anything, and that would be interesting and fun to see.
@ZenBrainJam

I agree. And of course, there's no throne to inherit anymore. Palpatine's regime was destroyed and it was never legitimate to begin with.

And I have to clarify, I don't see Empress Rey happening, and I wouldn't want to see Empress Rey happening. I was just talking about fanfiction scenarios, which were mentioned earlier. Though Adam could no doubt play a very regal and imposing Emperor, for some reason Emperor Kylo holds absolutely no fascination for me. That's not how I see the character at all. Empress Rey, however, does fascinate me in its way. As fanfiction. I mean, I wouldn't mind writing one.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Reynak on Sun 22 May - 10:47

Darth Dingbat wrote:
Mana wrote:
Reynak wrote:
Mana wrote:Rey of Sunshine is in great danger of being overshadowed by her significant other in terms of characterization and character arc in the future...Reympress is all about risk taking, but I can't see the writers taking her in that direction.
@Mana

She needs some risks to grow as a character but who can see a girl in her early twenties rise to power as an empress? She would be inexperienced and would have no education, knowledge or skill as a rule? What's more, she could only reach that lever of power through the DS and usurping the "legitimate" right the peoples of the galaxy gave to the Republic to rule them.



Ren is too young to rule an empire, or to be a president or a prime minister, with Rey this would be ridiculous given her age. If she becomes a ruler due to either heritage or because she is FS it will suggest a dangerous message of supremacy due to bloodline or special powers. This is not only Dark and problematic but also difficult to seem believable. If she was older ir could work but Daisy is very young and Rey is little more than a kid.
@Reynak

I didn't mean it literally, of course Reympress is not something that's going to come out of nowhere. Its possible for her to turn dark and have ambitions of becoming Reympress...
@Mana

Or she might turn out to be Palpatine's granddaughter after all, in which case her rise to power would be no different from any other heir in history inheriting a kingdom at a young age Razz

Of course, such a reign would be a Dark Side one. And of course it's not happening, unless Rey is tempted by power at some point but ultimately rejects it. Like I've said in this thread several times, there's no way Star Wars is going to put a positive spin on a totalitarian regime. If they were trying to present a complex political situation in TFA, they failed miserably, because the FO that we saw is even more cartoonishly fascist than the OT Empire.
@Darth Dingbat

But she can't inherit an empire that has been overthrown or deposed and is not legitimate now. For instance, in France it would be monstruous to destroy democracy to reestablish monarchy and sit an heiress of the old monarchy on the throne to rule. Even if she is Palpatine's descendant she has no moral or legal claims over an empire that no longer exists. Only war would make Reympress possible and the Resistance would have none of it.

If any SWs character has what it takes to be a ruler this is Leia, and she wouldn't use the Force to achieve it, cause she has chosen to leave her potential claims as royalty behind as well as her status as a powerful FS, someone above the rest. Someone like her would make a worthy ruler in SW universe, with the skill, capacity and moral values to do that properly and nothing of the power hunger others have. And she would be a legitimate ruler, chosen by the galaxy's people, not some entitled wannabe.

But if they go for DS Rey, it could work, although she should come back to the Light and leave power to whom it belongs, which should be the peoples in the galaxy, aliens incuded, even Jar Jar descendants, come on. Smile


Last edited by Reynak on Sun 22 May - 11:17; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 22 May - 10:54

@Reynak: I don't disagree at all. I don't see this happening, and for the same reason that I don't see Renperor happening, unless Kylo is just meant to be an irredeemable (or redeemed-in-five-minutes-at-the-very-end) villain.

I was only thinking in fanfiction terms, and even then, my imagination goes a few centuries back and not to 20th-century regimes.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Reynak on Sun 22 May - 11:06

Darth Dingbat wrote:@Reynak: I don't disagree at all. I don't see this happening, and for the same reason that I don't see Renperor happening, unless Kylo is just meant to be an irredeemable (or redeemed-in-five-minutes-at-the-very-end) villain.

I was only thinking in fanfiction terms, and even then, my imagination goes a few centuries back and not to 20th-century regimes.
@Darth Dingbat

It could work in canon too, it would be Dark as hell but would make for a good story. I can't see it with a happy ending though, unless she came to her senses before the DS engulfed her completely.

It would also be difficult to carry out in two movies because she is so young. Kid rulers usually started as puppets in the hands of others and many remained that all their lives. Also, Rey is much more of a kid than queen Elizabeth l or queen Isabella of Spain were when they became rulers because people matured much faster in the past. Lives were shorter and the concept of adolescence non- exixtent. They had to grow up fast. Also, they got real good education and experience at court while Rey never had this training.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Sun 22 May - 16:28

I don't see either of those two options ever happening. I still kinda giggle whenever I read some description of Kylo Ren as "First Order warlord" - sorry, yes he's bad, but he's not that bad. And Rey already denied the dark side at the end of TFA when she chose not to kill him.

Also I don't really mind her characterization so far, she's just what I'd expect of a girl who had to fend for herself on a planet with extreme climate and black market trade only. But I wonder how things will go in VIII, since Daisy already said she's not sure if Rey's a Jedi at all. Personally I also had the impression that Rey's #1 priority was having a family/friends, and I'm not sure she'll sacrifice all that for a war. Neutral
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 May - 18:34

Rimfaxe96 wrote:I don't see either of those two options ever happening. I still kinda giggle whenever I read some description of Kylo Ren as "First Order warlord" - sorry, yes he's bad, but he's not that bad. And Rey already denied the dark side at the end of TFA when she chose not to kill him.

Also I don't really mind her characterization so far, she's just what I'd expect of a girl who had to fend for herself on a planet with extreme climate and black market trade only. But I wonder how things will go in VIII, since Daisy already said she's not sure if Rey's a Jedi at all. Personally I also had the impression that Rey's #1 priority was having a family/friends, and I'm not sure she'll sacrifice all that for a war. Neutral
@Rimfaxe96
I agree with your assessment of Rey. A lot of us have said that it's hard to relate to Rey because she doesn't really have any goals or ambitions, and that has largely been blamed on the Mystery Box. I don't blame it though. Rey was just written to be that kind of character. Her goal is practically to discover what her purpose or destiny really is. Even she doesn't know what happened in her past, so she's like her own Mystery Box. That's the whole point of the character really, to crack the mysteries of her own origins and discover her real purpose by letting go of what was in order to embrace what will be.

What I think we can all agree on disliking is the fandom obsession with protecting Rey. She can take care of herself from what I've seen.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Sun 22 May - 19:28

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:What I think we can all agree on disliking is the fandom obsession with protecting Rey. She can take care of herself from what I've seen.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Huh, indeed. Imagine what the final fight would have been like if instead of that lightsaber she would have had her staff. She would have smacked Kylo around. And maybe bit him too! Shocked
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by BastilaBey on Thu 2 Jun - 16:53

There's something about my mood today where I'm thinking of the appeal of a painful Reylo ending in IX, and Renperor could play a part. If they've confessed/expressed their feelings to each other and Ren's made sacrifices to save Rey or Leia's life, but still feels obliged to pick up the pieces of the FO because he can't agree with Resistance/NR politics. So they end up still on opposing sides of the war, even as lovers or would-be lovers who can't be together.

I just think with all the nuance they've put into Kylo's character, it's not going to be a redemption story like Vader's, and that doesn't just mean the timing. He could still feel the pull to the light - or the grey - but be on the politically 'bad' side of things. SW might be maturing as a series.

Also recently watched the Buffy season 2 finale which had me thinking about horribly sad ways in which Rey might be forced to kill the man she loves...that's some dark sith.
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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by CienaRee on Thu 2 Jun - 19:42

BastilaBey wrote:There's something about my mood today where I'm thinking of the appeal of a painful Reylo ending in IX, and Renperor could play a part. If they've confessed/expressed their feelings to each other and Ren's made sacrifices to save Rey or Leia's life, but still feels obliged to pick up the pieces of the FO because he can't agree with Resistance/NR politics. So they end up still on opposing sides of the war, even as lovers or would-be lovers who can't be together.

I just think with all the nuance they've put into Kylo's character, it's not going to be a redemption story like Vader's, and that doesn't just mean the timing. He could still feel the pull to the light - or the grey - but be on the politically 'bad' side of things. SW might be maturing as a series.

Also recently watched the Buffy season 2 finale which had me thinking about horribly sad ways in which Rey might be forced to kill the man she loves...that's some dark sith.
@BastilaBey

That would deffinatly be on an EU level of darknessIt would be great if SW starts maturing as series and show the darker and grittier side of the universe while not loosing the themes of hope and redemption that have been central to the saga and I think LucasFilm would want to explore those possibilties.
However the problem here is Disney.I know Pablo has said that they plan things ahead and that LucasFilm has control over the storylines but we've seen what's happening with Rogue One.It was suppsoe to be a war movie and have a different tone however apparently Disney chickened out and have forced them to make certain parts more of a TFA which isn't really a good thing.Apart from Kylo and Rey's dynamic it didn't really impress me that much so I was really looking forward to seeing something different with this spin off.
Sorry,I know this probably isn't the right thread to be disucssing this but what I was trying to say is that I hope Disney doesn't interfere too much and actually let the series hold on its own and take risks which inlcludes Reylo.

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Re: Renperor and Reyempress Possibility Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Thu 2 Jun - 20:48

CienaRee wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:There's something about my mood today where I'm thinking of the appeal of a painful Reylo ending in IX, and Renperor could play a part. If they've confessed/expressed their feelings to each other and Ren's made sacrifices to save Rey or Leia's life, but still feels obliged to pick up the pieces of the FO because he can't agree with Resistance/NR politics. So they end up still on opposing sides of the war, even as lovers or would-be lovers who can't be together.

I just think with all the nuance they've put into Kylo's character, it's not going to be a redemption story like Vader's, and that doesn't just mean the timing. He could still feel the pull to the light - or the grey - but be on the politically 'bad' side of things. SW might be maturing as a series.

Also recently watched the Buffy season 2 finale which had me thinking about horribly sad ways in which Rey might be forced to kill the man she loves...that's some dark sith.
@BastilaBey

That would deffinatly be on an EU level of darknessIt would be great if SW starts maturing as series and show the darker and grittier side of the universe while not loosing the themes of hope and redemption that have been central to the saga and I think LucasFilm would want to explore those possibilties.
However the problem here is Disney.I know Pablo has said that they plan things ahead and that LucasFilm has control over the storylines but we've seen what's happening with Rogue One.It was suppsoe to be a war movie and have a different tone however apparently Disney chickened out and have forced them to make certain parts more of a TFA which isn't really a good thing.Apart from Kylo and Rey's dynamic it didn't really impress me that much so I was really looking forward to seeing something different with this spin off.
Sorry,I know this probably isn't the right thread to be disucssing this but what I was trying to say is that I hope Disney doesn't interfere too much and actually let the series hold on its own and take risks which inlcludes Reylo.
@CienaRee

Not going to get into the Renperor debate again Very Happy But just to address the bolded part.

If the plan is to take a more "grown-up" direction with the films from now on, then I'm afraid to say TFA didn't lay a very strong foundation for that. The film was very much geared towards families. Children loved it. The majority of the film was simply fun adventure, and Hux's silly speech + Space Voldemort as the "supreme leader" didn't exactly inject any nuanced politics into the picture.

Kylo is the only part that brought a whiff of psychological realism into the story, but even his story started clearly on a mythical/fairytale scale of things. And children love Kylo, perhaps even more than children love Rey and BB-8. (Judging by what I saw in the Amazon rankings, i.e. Kylo merchandise being bestsellers in most categories, including children's toy categories; more so in typical "boyish" toys, of course. For example, when I looked in February or so, Kylo Lego figurine was the biggest bestseller in the category of all Legos. That was huge, IMO. All the other characters trailed faaaar behind.)

Anyway, my point is that it would feel pretty odd if, after the rather childish start - and distinctly family-friendly vibe - of TFA, Episode VIII suddenly took a completely new turn to a completely different direction, and gave us something really mature, dark and gritty. I do expect it to be more complex, more nuanced and more sombre than TFA, but still something that's a logical continuation from what we saw in TFA. And something that will continue to sell toys.
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