Kylo coded as traumatized?

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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by Darth Dementor on Thu 8 Sep - 17:35

@ZioRen wrote:
@guardienne wrote:i think it's late because kylo's made up his mind and because han's taken too long to take this step.

great song choice @motherofpearl1

i love how the scenes hints so fully at their relationship without making their history it explicit.
@guardienne

I can see that line having multiple roots. One in Han being too late to reach out this hand and change Kylo's trajectory. The other being that he does think it's too late for him to ever go back even if he wanted to, even if part of him is clawing at him to do so. Considering everything he's done and gone through with Snoke, it's not surprising that he'd think that.

It's telling that he says "it's too late" instead of a direct denial of Snoke's real plans, since this line is right after Han talks about Snoke just using him.

And yeah, I've seen people complain that Kylo's relationship with his parents wasn't explained/fleshed out enough in TFA (especially with Han, considering he killed him), but there was actually quite a lot revealed even beyond the bit of exposition we got. You just have to pay attention!
@ZioRen

I think Ben's relationship with his parents was intentionally kept vague so fans would think one thing. In the next two installments how close or distant, him and his family were will be more fleshed out.

Look how many think Ben is just a whiney and spoiled brat. If his upbringing was like we suspect fans will do a 180 and like him more...like Rey will.

Case in point a mate of mine use to dislike a fighter named Rashad Evans. He didn't know why but he just thought he was a cocky jerk and didn't like his face. Then he saw Evans on The Ultimate Fighter, first as a fighter then as a coach and was floored by how nice and caring he was as a person. After that he became a fan and admitted he now, to this day feels bad about hating him. Whenever other fans bash him he defends him asking "I don't get all the hate for the guy? He's a great martial artist and he's a good guy. Why don't you give him a chance?" I suspect that is how things will go for Ben in the future, with fans.

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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by guardienne on Fri 9 Sep - 2:24

@solosidecousin i haven't read any of the new canon novels so i'm a little in the dark (as per usual).

the doerries stuff is more meta about tragedy and the purpose of it, the discussion he has with the audience is about why you would depict something like philoctetes in a play and it's quite eye-opening. his book is very good as well.

so i'm kinda imaginatively combining this to say that the purpose of the kylo story is to do a tragedy in that vein (there used to be the amazing meta by ms-qualia on moral injury, but the blog has disappeared as far as i can tell, that made that leap as well. the deepest betrayal that shay (achilles in vietnam) identifies is leadership betrayal (i'd go on and i wil but not right now) and luke is the likeliest candidate for that. kylo strikes me as a person with a conscience, someone who is very loyal, which is kinda what you're looking for with this. if luke told him to act against his conscience, i.e. leave someone behind, trick them, kill someone defenseless, i think he would crack. and it provides a much better reason than snoke simply putting in the man hours.

and it would explain the murderers, traitors and thieves.

they went there first, so whatever he does now is in justification of this wrong.

you get some of this with achilles' story. again, no time to examine it properly.
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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by guardienne on Mon 26 Sep - 5:02

as i'm having this thread to myself...

https://oldadastra.tumblr.com/post/150928977199/adam-is-always-uncomfortable-in-interviews

it's an old conversation for sure, but one that i loved reading again.

Moral injury was a big missing concept to me on that, and the idea that art has a function in expressing problems we’ve kind of left by the wayside– in this case, a concept of evil as miasma rather a choice, as a constricting thing, as a thing that takes away choice– is interesting to me. I won’t deny that evil can also be a choice. But basically nothing in our society, from courts to medical systems, are equipped to handle tragedy. Everything takes choice for granted. Everything is geared toward solving things rather than accepting them.
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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 26 Sep - 6:44

Please forgive me if I've said this before but I am absolutely sure they are setting Kylo up as the 'big bad'in TFA so they can reveal something completely sympathetic about him in VIII- and it will be the shock twist of VIII that Vader's "I am your father" speech was in ESB.

Note how many 'sympathetic' bits with him were edited from the final cut, such as the Millennium Falcon scene and Snoke's "you have compassion for her" speech.
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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by guardienne on Mon 26 Sep - 7:57

i don't think you easily undo the murder of his father. i agree with you on principle, but the sympathetic light they can shine will not undo this as a fact.

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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 26 Sep - 8:16

The big thing with Han is:

Can his son be forgiven?

Han,his victim,forgave him.
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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by guardienne on Mon 26 Sep - 9:36

of course he can be forgiven and has been forgiven. it's really to do with the quality of the writing to me.

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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 26 Sep - 9:52

It helps that they have fine actors.
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Re: Kylo coded as traumatized?

Post by guardienne on Wed 18 Jan - 6:48

But many of Amidon’s patients talk about another kind of trauma, a psychic bruise that, unlike PTSD, isn’t rooted in fear. Some of these soldiers describe experiences in which they, or someone close to them, violated their moral code: hurting a civilian who turned out to be unarmed, shooting at a child wearing explosives, or losing trust in a commander who became more concerned with collecting decorative pins than protecting the safety of his troops. Others, she says, are haunted by their own inaction, traumatized by something they witnessed and failed to prevent.

[...]

“Most young adults think in black-and-white in terms of moral concepts, because they are still developmental adolescents and not always able to think in nuanced terms,” says Nancy Sherman, a professor of philosophy at Georgetown University and the author of Afterwar: Healing the Moral Wounds of Our Soldiers. “They also train with set ideals that encourage black-and-white thinking: Never leave a buddy behind, bring everyone home, minimize collateral damage. But as missions get harder and you encounter things like insurgency in civilian populations, you can’t do all those things at once. You can’t even do most of those things well. So there are a whole lot of moral compromises that people might not have been prepared to make.”

[...]

“In order to heal from shame, guilt, and betrayal, you have to own it. [The veterans] first own it themselves, then they own it with a peer group that understands what they’ve gone through and isn’t going to judge,” she says. “A key part of moral repair is acknowledging what you’ve done, and the more people you can acknowledge that with, the more safe people, the more you are going to heal from it.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/07/healing-a-wounded-sense-of-morality/396770/
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