Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

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Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by CienaRee on Fri 27 May - 15:02

Hey guys this is a thread for the canon novel Dark Disciple.Me and @panki  were discussing the book together and we thought it would be a good idea to open a thread about it since not only  is a great read but  the main relationship it revolves around is very similair to Reylo. Very Happy
I'm currently reading it but I'm sure @panki will have to say a lot about the novel.Hope you join the conversation. Very Happy
Here are the synopsis:


In the war for control of the galaxy between the armies of the dark side and the Republic, former Jedi Master turned ruthless Sith Lord Count Dooku has grown ever more brutal in his tactics. Despite the powers of the Jedi and the military prowess of their clone army, the sheer number of fatalities is taking a terrible toll. And when Dooku orders the massacre of a flotilla of helpless refugees, the Jedi Council feels it has no choice but to take drastic action: targeting the man responsible for so many war atrocities, Count Dooku himself.

But the ever-elusive Dooku is dangerous prey for even the most skilled hunter. So the Council makes the bold decision to bring both sides of the Force’s power to bear—pairing brash Jedi Knight Quinlan Vos with infamous one-time Sith acolyte Asajj Ventress. Though Jedi distrust for the cunning killer who once served at Dooku’s side still runs deep, Ventress’s hatred for her former master runs deeper. She’s more than willing to lend her copious talents as a bounty hunter—and assassin—to Vos’s quest.

Together, Ventress and Vos are the best hope for eliminating Dooku—as long as the emerging feelings between them don’t compromise their mission. But Ventress is determined to have her retribution and at last let go of her dark Sith past. Balancing the complicated emotions she feels for Vos with the fury of her warrior’s spirit, she resolves to claim victory on all fronts—a vow that will be mercilessly tested by her deadly enemy . . . and her own doubt.


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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by panki on Fri 27 May - 23:01

This book had me thinking of Rey and Kylo, and the possible path their relationship could take. Before going into the book itself, we need to know a little bit about the background of the characters according to canon. I noticed that both their stories have elements from the lives of both Rey and Kylo.....but when one's story is like Rey...the other's story is like Kylo and vice versa....like yin and yang....

First we have Asajj Ventress (named after Asaji, a character in Kurosawa's Throne of Blood) who was born to a Dathomirian Night Sister but was taken away from her family at a very young age by a slaver. Asajj has a force vision of the event that is very similar to the one where Rey is being held by Unkar Plutt and screaming for her family. The beginning of her life is similar to Rey but then her story arc starts to resemble that of Kylo.




Before I go into the rest of her tale, let us look at Quinlan Vos (given a name to resemble Qui-Gon Jinn). He showed great force powers including the rare ability of Psychometry (touching objects and getting force visions of events and emotions from the lives of previous owners). So he was sent to the jedi temple at Corsucant to train. There he excels in his training, becoming a jedi master at an extremely young age. Ben Solo was sent to train with Luke and became his best student. This is where Quinlan's story arc begins to resemble that of Rey.



Back to Ventress who is now on a path similar to Ben Solo (in terms of rage, pain, sorry, betrayal and most of all loneliness)....her slave master gets killed and in her sorrow she uses the force on some pirates as a little girl. She is seen by a jedi master stranded on that planet and he makes her his padawan. They travel around helping people and fighting pirates. However, her master gets killed by some pirates and in her rage she kills the killers and descends into the dark side. Count Dooku meets her and is impressed by her abilities. He also sees her despair and loneliness and takes full advantage of it, making her both his apprentice and dependent on him (not unlike Snoke with Ben). She becomes his assassin and kills and tortures a lot of people to win his approval but he is only using her. Finally, on Palpatine's orders he tries to kill her. She returns and re-joins the Night sisters and tries to unsuccessfully kill Dooku. Finally Dooku gets all the Nightsisters killed and she is left all alone. She gives up the dark side and takes up bounty hunting.



Vos in the meantime works for the jedi order on undercover missions because of his tracking abilities. He is a loner and has to deal with the worst elements of society in the seamiest parts of the galaxy. He is a tough person but extremely warm and caring. Like Rey, everybody who meets him like him and he is extremely popular with jedi of all age groups. Family means a lot to him and because he doesn't have his real family, he sees his fellow jedi as family.



When the novel begins, Count Dooku has almost wiped out a complete alien species- the Mahrans. One of Vos's closest jedi friends belongs to this species. Mace Windu and some other council members are so angry they want to have Dooku assassinated. Yoda and Obi-wan aren't happy but agree...and Obi-wan suggests that they sent Quinlan Vos on the mission....they tell him that he has to take the help of Asajj Ventress for this mission since she is Dooku's former apprentice and hates him but he cannot reveal his identity to her.

Obi-wan's flirtatious relationship with Ventress in the Clone Was is hinted at when Obi-wan asks Vos to flirt with her not to raise her suspicions....but Vos despite hanging around in level 1313 and such shady places, has always adhered to jedi principles so he is taken aback by Obi-wan's suggestion.

I like the fact that Vos begins his story like Kylo and Ventress begins her story like Rey...but somewhere alone the way, Ventress feels angry and betrayed by those she cared for and trusted (like Kylo) while Vos, like Rey, works in tough environments but has an air of naivete.


Last edited by panki on Sat 28 May - 18:23; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by vaderito on Sat 28 May - 3:15

I'm gonna buy this and Lost Stars for my Euro trip in June. I'll discuss it when I read it. Sounds great.
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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by panki on Wed 1 Jun - 5:08














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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by panki on Wed 1 Jun - 5:17

Star Wars Celebration 2015: The Untold Clone Wars Panel with Dave Filoni and Pablo Hidalgo discussing untold tales from Clone Wars
(April 16, 2015)
- DD related Liveblog entries

3:54 pm
Another new sketch: Ventress and Quinlan Voss. Lucas was really happy with Ventress’ development.

3:55 pm
Asajj’s has hair! “Katie Lucas and I were interested in Ventress having punk hair.” A fan has the actual haircut and was invited on stage — it works in real life!

3:56 pm
New sketch: Ventress’ ship. A take on the Attack of the Clones gunship. This ship will show up in Star Wars Rebels…

3:57 pm
New concept art of Quinlan Vos. “I tried really hard to blend elements of the EU into the Clone Wars.” – Filoni

3:58 pm
Lucas really liked Quinlan; he read the comics, liked them, and wanted to develop him.

3:59 pm
Lucas didn’t like that Ventress became Dooku’s apprentice, and engineered the story to get her out of that situation.

4:03 pm
New story reel clip! Ventress (with hair) chases someone in crowded streets.After she corners him, Quinlan tackles the subject.

4:05 pm
Ventress’ bow in the clip is a nod to the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon.

4:05 pm
The clip takes place in Pantora City.

4:07 pm
Now showing concept art of Ventress in a ballroom gown!

4:08 pm
Now showing a clip from later in the arc — bounty hunters versus Count Dooku! Intense stuff — the story will be told in Star Wars: Dark Disciple, the new novel coming in July!


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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by panki on Wed 1 Jun - 5:41

Concept Art related to Dark Disciple novel/related unused Clone Wars episode- Quinlan Vos, Asajj Ventress, Desh, the Banshee, Maul(?)
















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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by panki on Thu 2 Jun - 11:36

The many worlds of Dark Disciple:

Coruscant





Oba Diah





Christophsis





Mustafar





Serenno





Tatooine





Raxus





Dathomir





Vanqor





Pantora




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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by BastilaBey on Sun 31 Jul - 4:04

OK, so firstly, a note to self: do not read 'redemption through love' stories on airplanes. Nobody wants to see your ugly cry face.

I loved this book. I've heard lots about it but somehow only just got around to reading it for myself, and it really lived up to the hype.

Some quick notes but would love to discuss this further if others are still interested in the book (you all probably read it ages ago though)

- From the foreword by Katie Lucas:
"At its core, Dark Disciple is a story of redemption; a story of how people can be unbelievably broken, and yet find a way to rebuild despite the odds. All of us are given chances time and time again to transform our lives, and it is our responsibility to seize those opportunities before they disappear."

OK, this quote actually brought tears to my eyes before I even started the damn story. Because it was wonderful confirmation that the new canon is decidedly staying true to the core values of hope, redemption and love. I've seen quite a few people speculate that Kylo won't be redeemed because 'maybe SW is wanting to go somewhere new'. Sure, they will try new things, the story won't be the exact same we've had before. But at its core, that's what it is and I really don't think they want to mess with it too much. It's what makes it so universally beloved and gives hope to people all over the world.

- Vos bridal carrying Ventress into the ship just as his feelings for her are developing. Hmm... Wink We all know what that trope means in the real world's understanding of mythology, literature, art, etc. but it's extra nice to get a nod to it in another SW canon story.

- Anakin and Padme talking about Ventress and Vos:
"You said Ventress seemed genuinely upset."
"She was. First time I've seen a real emotion out of her that didn't involve removing someone's body parts. But it doesn't matter. A Jedi isn't supposed to...um..."
Anakin's flow of words slowed as he realized how hypocritical he sounded. Padme was watching him with a slightly wry smile but her eyes were kind.
"We're different," he said. "We're in love."
Padme ran a small hand along his cheek. "Yes, we are," she said. "And maybe they are, too."
"Ventress isn't capable of anything as selfless as love," Anakin scoffed. "And Vos couldn't possibly have cared about a murderess like her. Besides, she's the one who took him to the dark side in the first place."
Padme shrugged. "Stranger things have happened," she said. "And maybe, if she loves him, she's his way back from it."
Anakin found he had no response to that.

I dunno about you guys, but that conversation screams Reylo to me. Obviously there are Bastila and Revan elements too, the theme of both people in a relationship experiencing the allure of the dark side at different moments and it allowing them to understand and help each other, to truly forgive even after terrible acts.

Another thing I found interesting was the way Vos was able to delude himself after he fell. Because he lied to himself about his motives, he didn't consider himself truly lost to the darkside. The dark as delusional/coded as mentally ill is something that again reminds me of how Kylo appears to be characterized in TFA. There have been comments from Pablo, Adam Driver and John Boyega that echo this type of thing, too, that he really believes he is doing these things for justifiable reasons, even if they turn out not to be. His delusions are real, and need to be shattered.
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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by vaderito on Sun 31 Jul - 11:45

@BastilaBey That line that Vos couldn't possibly care about murderess like Ventress (but he did - it was true love for both).  Twisted Evil That's Reylo right there. Love doesn't follow logic. Romance cannot be rationalized or it isn't romance.
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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by BastilaBey on Sun 31 Jul - 13:07

@vaderito It's also so sad because Padme wasn't able to bring Anakin back with her love...maybe that's the difference. For some stories, a selfless sacrifice will be enough, but Anakin's fall had to happen. Plus we knew that in his future, his love for Luke would save him.
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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by vaderito on Sun 31 Jul - 13:10

BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito It's also so sad because Padme wasn't able to bring Anakin back with her love...maybe that's the difference. For some stories, a selfless sacrifice will be enough, but Anakin's fall had to happen. Plus we knew that in his future, his love for Luke would save him.
@BastilaBey

Anidala love had baggage was tainted because they were lying. His love for Luke had no baggage, was pure and it worked. Likewise, Kylo + family love is tainted because there's a lie (they didn't tell him about Vader) but his love for Rey is pure and without baggage and lies.
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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by panki on Sun 31 Jul - 22:57

vaderito wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito It's also so sad because Padme wasn't able to bring Anakin back with her love...maybe that's the difference. For some stories, a selfless sacrifice will be enough, but Anakin's fall had to happen. Plus we knew that in his future, his love for Luke would save him.
@BastilaBey

Anidala love had baggage was tainted because they were lying. His love for Luke had no baggage, was pure and it worked. Likewise, Kylo + family love is tainted because there's a lie (they didn't tell him about Vader) but his love for Rey is pure and without baggage and lies.
@vaderito

I actually found a couple of differences between Anidala and Vostress....

1. Anakin and Padme hid their romance from the world, afraid of the consequences of the world knowing. Vos and Ventress did not care- Ventress even mentioned her feelings for Vos before the jedi council. Also, Vos was clear that he wanted to finish his mission and leave the order for Ventress (it is another matter that he unconsciously fell to the dark side along the way)

2. Anakin always sought to be the most powerful; Padme wanted to help the galaxy.... their personal goals were greater than their relationship. Vos and Ventress had no such baggage.

3. Ventress had been on the dark side so she understood when Vos fell to the dark side- she also knew how to bring him back....and being two force sensitives with a force bond, they had a much greater trust and understanding of each other....hopefully something we will see more off with reylo.

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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by vaderito on Sun 31 Jul - 23:08

@panki  cheers cheers cheers cheers That's amazing and must be included!


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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by jakkusun on Sat 10 Sep - 17:02

I just finished listening to the audiobook of Dark Disciple. It was really good! Also I just love how the Star Wars audiobooks have music and sound effects. It is almost like watching a movie.

I don't know why, but for some reason Obi-Wan Kenobi was almost my favorite character. He was the most forgiving and understanding and merciful jedi, so I was almost always on his side, even if he is a bit self-righteous (I loved the part where he watched Ventress trying to kill Vos because she thought Vos was too far gone and needed to be killed at that point, and wondered if he looked like that when he was killing enemies--like a killer angel of righteousness or something like that. I was glad he was self-aware for a second). I really agreed with his unwillingness to resort to killing everybody so quickly, and his willingness to trust Ventress more than any of the others besides Vos.

His character in this book actually reminded me of how Carrie said Rey is forgiving (and I'm not even a hardcore Reynobi theorist, but the parallel just struck me). Obi-Wan was kind of the second most important person when it came to Vos's redemption, after Ventress, of course, but Obi-Wan was instrumental in Vos's rehabilitation into the jedi order. It almost makes it that much sadder that he lost Anakin, actually.


It also made me so happy when Embo, my favorite bounty hunter, showed up for a little bit. Smile

I also liked how Ventress, while she had realized that the dark side didn't have the answers to happiness and that it was dangerous and could consumed people, she still seemed to hold onto the idea that one can use the dark side in a controlled and balanced way. When she used her fear and anger to exert control over her crashing spaceship and save them from a deadly crash, I think she was using a dark-side tactic in a good way.  Because it seems turning emotions into power doesn't always have to be bad, if the action you put the emotion into isn't a bad action. And I liked how Vos told Kenobi at the end of the book that the dark side on dathomir wasn't fighting them, and they both agreed that the dark side that was there wasn't so bad, almost. These were just a few things that gave me some hope for some balance in the force.
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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by vaderito on Sun 11 Sep - 11:02

@jakkusun I love this book. I re-read it recently and it got better second time. You really catch all those little things that make the story and characters so compelling. And yes, it's another book that doesn't present things as black and white so I fully expect that to be incorporated in the movies.
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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by panki on Sun 11 Sep - 11:37

I have already read it 4 times.... and heard the audio book once as well.... and loved it more with each read! Very Happy

That being said, I actually found Ventress the most forgiving  and selfless person in the book... the jedi council lied to her, treated her with contempt and wanted her to do their dirty assassination work without even telling her they were behind it...and yet she ended up saving them from going down a very dark path though it was at the cost of her life. I have followed her story from TCW onwards and am not surprised she evolved the way she did....even towards the end of TCW, she was walking in a grey area, bounty hunting but yet helping people as well.

Speaking of which,  PH posted an interesting tweet yesterday in response to the question of whether Mace Windu was still alive.....



Guess who else was inbued with Nightsister magick by Mother Talzin? Ventress. Very Happy (she might not have died after all)



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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by vaderito on Sun 11 Sep - 11:41

@panki Vostress movies would be amazing!
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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by panki on Sun 11 Sep - 11:43

vaderito wrote:@panki Vostress movies would be amazing!
@vaderito

I would love that.....or even a live action tv show.... cheers It would definitely help make more of the GA appreciate light and dark pairings like reylo more. Very Happy

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Re: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden

Post by vaderito on Sun 11 Sep - 11:47

panki wrote:
vaderito wrote:@panki Vostress movies would be amazing!
@vaderito

I would love that.....or even a live action tv show.... cheers It would definitely help make more of the GA appreciate light and dark pairings like reylo more. Very Happy
@panki

Totally agree, though GA will definitely appreciate. It's some hardcore fans and some people high on cinnamon rolls that don't but they are huge minority so nobody should care.
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