So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by CienaRee on Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:36 am

@snufkin wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:After TFA came out, I was showing my 9 year old son how Anakin became Darth Vader.  Found some footage from ROS on youtube.  It was right after he force choked Padme and Obi wan was walking down the plank that it hit me.  I think they are going to do a reverse Anakin/Padme with Kylo and Rey but they are both force sensitive and it will be a better story.  I can't even tell you why or what made me think that at that time.
Now that we own the prequels, that love story had potential with a different writer....not sure how I feel about GL as a director either.
@Birdwoman

The PT seems like it was very much a personal passion project for GL, but would've done better with different writers. And from what I've read, maybe it works out that while he had some valid reasons for turning on his family and joining their enemy, part of it had to do with hubris and gaining power. The totally selfish reasons it sounds like were the motivation in the PT. So maybe how it works out is that he gives all of that up at great personal cost because his relationship with her becomes more important. ANd not even that it's b/c they're in a relationship or that it'll win her over, but that it'll hurt her directly (I think Snoke's been after her since childhood too) and that becomes more of his mission than Renprener or whatever.
@snufkin

If we though the TFA novelization was bad wait for the RTS one by Matthew Stover.The novelization itself was actually great but he depicted Anidala in a very unhealthy and abusive way, things weren't good before he becmae Vader but I swear Anakin sounded like a total psycopath after he turned to the DS and the Mustafar scene in the novel is actually worse than in the movie:

''Anakin,not here.It's too risky.''
''No,here!Exactly here.''He drew her against him again again,effortlessly overpowering her halfhearted resistance.''I'm tired of the deception.Of the sneaking and the lying.We have nothing to be ashamed of!We love each other,and we are married.Just like trillions of people across the galaxy.This is something we should shout,not whisper-''
''No,Anakin.Not like all those other heroes.They are not jedi.We can't let our love force you ot of the Order-''
''Force me out of the Order?he smiled down at her fondly.''Was that a pun?''
''Anakin-''He could still make her angry without even trying.''Listen to me.We have a futy to the Republic.Both of us-but yours is now so much more imporant.You are the face of the Jedi,Anakin.Even after these years of war,many people still love theJedi,and it's mostly because they love you,do you understand that?They love the story of you.You're like something out of a bedtime tale,the secret prince,hidden among the peasants,growing up without ever a clue of his special destiny-except for you it's all true.Sometimes I think taht the only reason the people of the Republic still believe we can win the war is because you're fighting it for them-''
''And it aways comes back to politics for you'',Anakin said.His smile had gone now.''I'm barely even home,and you're already tryign to talk me unto going back to the war-''
''This isn't about politics,Anakin it's about you.''
''Something has changed,hasn't it?Thunder gathered in his voice.''I felt it,even outside.Something has changed.''
She lowered her head.''Everything has changed.''
''What is it? What?''He took her by the shoulders now,his hands hard and irresistibly powerful.''There's someone else.I can feel it in the Force!There is someone coming between us-''
''Not the way you think,''she said.''Anakin,listen-''
''Who is it?Who?''
''Stop it.Anakin,stop.You'll hurt is.''
His hands sprang open as though she had burned them.He took a steady step backward,his face suddenly ashen.''Padme-I would never-I'm so sorry,I just-''
He leaned on the pillar and brought a hand weakly to his eyes.''The Hero With No Fear.What a joke...padme,I can't loose you.I can't.You're all I live for.Wait...''He lifted his head,frowning quizically.''Did you say us?''
She reached for him,and he came to meet her hand.Rising tears burned her eyes,and her lip trembled.''I'm...Annie,I'm pregnant...''

What about Obi-Wan?''
She looked stricken.Pale and terrified.It made him love her even more.
He shook his head.''Many of the Jedi have bene killed.''
''But...''She started out at the rivers of tarffic crosshatching the sky.''Are you sure?It seems so...unbelievable...''
''I was there,Padme.It's all true.''
''But...how could Obi-Wan be invovled in something like that?''
He said,''We may never know.''
''Outlawed...,''she murmered.''What happens now?''
''All Jedi are required to surrender themselves immediatly,''he said.''Those who resist..are being dealt with.''
''Anakin-they're your family.You and the baby.''
''How can all of them be traitors-?
''They're not the only ones.There were Senators invovled as well.''
Now, finally, she looked at him.fear shone from her eyes.
He smiled.
''Don't worry.I won't let anything happend to you.''
''To me?''
''You need to distanse yourself from your...friends...in the Senate,Padme.It's very important to avoid even the appereance of disloyalty.''
''Anakin-you sound like you're threatening me...''
''This is a dangerous time,''he said.''We are all judged by the company we keep.''
''But-I''e oppsoed the war,I opposed Palpatine's emergency powers-I publically called him a threat to democracy.''
''That's all behind us now.''
''What is?What I've done?Or democracy?''
''Padme-''
Her chin came up,and her eyes hardened.''Am I udner suspicion?''
''Palpatine and I have discussed you already.You're in the clear,so long as you avoid...inappropriate associations.''
''How am I in the clear?''
''Because you're with me.Becase I say you are.''
She started at him as she if she'd never seen him before.''You told him''
''He knew.''
''Anakin-''
''There's no more need for secrtes,Padme.Don't you see?I'm not a Jedi anymore.There aren't any jedi.There's just me.''
He reached for her hand.She let him take it.''And you,and our child.''
''Then we can go,can't we?Her hard stare melted to naked appeal.''We can leave this planet.Go somewhere and be together-somewhere safe.''
''We'll be together here,''he said.''You are safe.I have made you safe.''
''Safe,''she echoed bitterly,pulling her hand away.''As long as Palpatine doesn't change his mind.''
The hand she ahd puleld from his graps was trembling.
''The Separatist leadership is in hiding on Mustafar.I'm on my way to deal with them now.''
''Deal with them?''The corners of her mouth went down.''Like the Jedi are being dealt with?''
''This is an important mission.I'm going to end this war.''
She looked way.''You're going alone.''
''Have faith ,my love,''he said.
She shook her head helplessly,and a pair of tears spilled from her eyes.He touched them with his mechanical hand;the fingertips of his balck glove glsitened in the dawn.
Two liquid gems,indescribably precious-because they were his.He had earned them.As he had earned her;as he had earned the child she bore.
He had paid for them with innocent blood.
''I love you,''he said.''This won't take long.wait for me.''
Fresh tears streamed onto her ivory cheeks,and she threw herself into his arms.''Aways,Anakin.Forever.Come back to me,my love-my life.Come back to me.''
He smiled down in her.''You say that I'm already gone.''
Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

'Obi-Wan.''She smeared tears from her cheeks.''He said-he told me you turned to the dark side,that you murdered Jedi...even younglings...''
Just having gotten the words out of made her feel better;now alls he ahd to do was rest in his arms while he held her and hugged her and promised her he would never do anything like any of thta,and she started half a smile aimed towards his eyes-
But instead of the light of love in his eyes,she saw only reflection of lava.
he didn't say,I could never turn to the dark side.
He didn't say,Murder younglings?Me?That's just crazy.
He said,''Obi Wan's alive?''
His voice had dropped an octave,and had gone colder than the chills that were spreading from the base of her spine.
''Y-yes-he,he said he was looking for you..''
''Did you tell him where I am?''
''No,Anakin!He wants to kill you.I didn't tell him anything-I wouldn't!
''Too bad.''
''Anakin,what-''
''He's a traitor,Padme.He's an enemy of the sate.He has to die.''
''Stop it,''she siad.''Stop talking like that...you're frightening me!''
''You're not the one who needs to be afraid.''
''It's like-it's like-''tears brimmed again.''I don't even know whoy uo are anymore...''
''I'm the man who loves you,''he said,but ehs aid ti through clenched teeth.''I'm the man who would do anything to protect you.Everything I have done,I have done for you.''
''Anakin...''Horror squeezed her voice down to a whsiper:small and fragile,and very young''...what have you done?''
And she prayed he wouldn't actually answer.
''What I have done is bring peace to the Republic.''
''The Republic is dead'',she wishpered.''You killd it.You and Palpatine.''
''It needed to die.''
New tearsstarted,but they didn't matter;she'd never have enough tears for this.''Anakin,can't we just...go?Please.Let's leave.Together.Today.Now.Before you-before something happens-
''Nothing will happen.Nothing can happen.Let Palpatine call himself Emperor.Let him.He can do the dirty work.all the messy,brutal oppresion it'll take to unit the galaxy forever-unite it against him.He'll make himself the most hated man in history.And when the time is right,we'll throw him down-''
''Anakin,stop-''
''Don't you see?We'll be heroes.the whole galaxy will love us,and we will rule.Together.''
''Please stop-Anakin,please stop,I can't stand it...''
He wasn't listening to her.he wasn't looking at her.he wa slooking past her shoulder.
Feral joy burned from his eyes,his face was no longer human.
''You...''
From behind her,calmly precise,with that clipped Coruscanti accent:''Padme.Move away from him.''
''Obi-Wan?''She whirled,and he was on the kanding ramp,still and sad.''No!''
''You'',growled a voice that should have been her love's.''You brouhgt him him here.''
His eyes were full of flame.
''Anakin?''
''Padme move away.''There was an urgency in Obi-Wan's vocie that sounded closer to fear than Padme had ever heard from him.''He's no what you think he is.He will harm you.''
Anakin's lips peeled off his teeth.''I would thank you for this,if it were a gift of love.''
Trembling,shaking her head,she began to back away.''No,Anakin-no...''
''Palpatine was right.Sometimes it is the closest who cannot see.I loved you too much,Padme.''
He made a fist,and she couldn't breathe.
''I loved yout too much to see you!To see what you are!
A vail of red descended on the world.She clawed at her throat,but there was nothing there her hands could touch.
''Let her go,Anakin.''
His answer was a predator's snarl,over the body of its prey.''You will not take her from me!''
She wnated to scream,to beg,to howl,No,Anakin,I'm sorry!I'm sorry...I love you..., but her locked throat strangled the truth inside her head,and the world-veil of red smocked toward black.
''Let her go!''
''Never!''
The ground fell away beneath her,and then a white flash of impact blasted her into night.
'Don't make me kill you,Obi-Wan.If you're not with me,you are against me.''
''Only Sith deal in absolutes,Anakin.The truth is never balck and white.''He rose,spreading empty ahnds.''Let me take Padme to a medcenter.She's hurt,Anakin.She needs medical attention.''
''She syas.''
''Anakin-''
Anakin'shad sputed a bar of blue phasma.
Obi Wan signed.He brought out his own lightsbaer and angled it ebfore him.''Then I will do what I must.''
''You'll try,''Anakin said,and lept.

Padme also trusts Obi Wan over Anakin when it comes to revealing the meeting between her and fellow Senators about Palpatine's growing power(the seeds for the rebellion are planted ruing those meetings) and belives she'll die eventhough Anakin tells her Palpatine won't kill her:

''There is one Jedi-one whom I truly know all of us can trust absolutelly...''
Her voice trailed off into apalled silence and she realzied that she wasn't talking about Anakin.
This had been all about him whe she'd started-all about her love,her need to be open with him.The pain that keeping this secret stabbed her heart at each and every beat-but when the thought had turned to trust,when it became a question of someone she knew,truly and absolutely knew,she could trust-
She discovered that she was talking about Obi Wan.

''Vote for Palpatine.Vote for the Empire.Make Mon Mothma vote for him, too.Be good little Senators.Mind your manners and keep your heads down.And keep doing...all those things we can't talk about.All those things I can't know.Promise me,Bail.Don't worry about me,''she said distantly.''I don't know if  I'll live that long.''


I think this trilogy would be about Kylo's feelings for Rey going from possesive and selfish to selfless and self-sacrafising which was the opposite that happened with Anakin.I also think it's important that despite how messed up Kylo mgiht be right now he feels compassion for Rey(which is important since it was Luke's compasison that led to Vader redeeming himself) while at least to me Anakin went from idolizing Padme(while Kylo is in awe of her I don't think he idolizes her,he was able to see her memories after all which is something much more deeper and intimate and something Anakin was unable to do with Padme) to feeling an unhealthy attachment to her.I remember reading in the novel ''The Rise of Lord Vader'' that Palpatine was aware of how unhealthy Anakin's feelings for Padme were and that's why he send him and Obi Wan to guard her in ATC.That's the oppsoite of what Snoke sences in Kylo when it comes to Rey and why he probably intended to kill her in front of him or have him do that.

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by snufkin on Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:44 am

Aw man, good 'ol Obi-Wan (have I mentioned again recently my <3 for Ewan McGregor).

And that's very helpful, in terms of "from possesive and selfish to selfless and self-sacrafising" in understanding what people have meant by this. Possibly also that while Snoke was able to manipulate him into killing Han because of their complicated/compromised relationship, he'll draw the line and break with Snoke over Rey.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Irina de France on Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:48 am

@CienaRee wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:After TFA came out, I was showing my 9 year old son how Anakin became Darth Vader.  Found some footage from ROS on youtube.  It was right after he force choked Padme and Obi wan was walking down the plank that it hit me.  I think they are going to do a reverse Anakin/Padme with Kylo and Rey but they are both force sensitive and it will be a better story.  I can't even tell you why or what made me think that at that time.
Now that we own the prequels, that love story had potential with a different writer....not sure how I feel about GL as a director either.
@Birdwoman

Yeah,like you have to wonder what would have happened if Anakin had fallen in love with a FS like him.Would he still have fallen?It would have been interesting to explore that storyline espeically since the love story  between a FS Anakin and a FS female Jedi would have been the thing that the PT would have centered around that.How cool would it have been?  Unfortunately GL dropped the ball on that one so Reylo in a sense could be what the PT's main romance could have been if it was handled by a better writer/director.

It could have been really interesting indeed. I think that if Anakin had fallen in love with a FS, they would have both left the Jedi Order. The story would have been entirely different, then.

But just to add to the posts above... thing is with Padmé is that she had a very idealized vision of Anakin. For a very long time, she was unable to see him truly as who he was because she still saw him as that sweet little boy she met on Tatooine. I mean, I don't even think she believed him when he said he slaughtered all the Sand People on purpose. One question I am asking myself is why she fell in love with him in the first place, but as I said before, Anidala was poorly done...

With Rey, it's different. During the interrogation scene, she went into Kylo's mind, and she sees him as who he is. He can try showing her a certain facade, but it's made clear very quickly that unlike Padmé with Anakin, Rey is having none of it. Rey is in no way blinded by love, nor scared, nor desperate when it comes to Kylo. She is bound to him, and he confuses her, because she wants to hate him but there are so many things in him that puzzle her. Padmé thought she understood Anakin: but she had the “Little-Ani-Goggles” on and wasn’t entirely able to understand Anakin, nor to totally see that he was slowly slipping away before it was too late.

That’s why it gets personal when she tells him: “You’re a monster” just before the snow fight. If you observe Rey throughout Han and Kylo’s confrontation, you realize that she looks hopeful. Nervous, but hopeful. Because she knows, and she saw things the audience didn’t see yet. And then Kylo goes and messes everything up.

So it’s that clear, non-idealized vision that changes everything, and what hints that Reylo might be Anidala done right.

And I agree with @snufkin above: Palpatine manipulated Anakin, but he also manipulated Padmé, to an extent. Eventually, she had her doubts about him, but it was already too late. It's different with Rey. She'll be the trigger to Kylo breaking his link with Snoke, and it will all be for the better.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:57 am

@Irina de France wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:After TFA came out, I was showing my 9 year old son how Anakin became Darth Vader.  Found some footage from ROS on youtube.  It was right after he force choked Padme and Obi wan was walking down the plank that it hit me.  I think they are going to do a reverse Anakin/Padme with Kylo and Rey but they are both force sensitive and it will be a better story.  I can't even tell you why or what made me think that at that time.
Now that we own the prequels, that love story had potential with a different writer....not sure how I feel about GL as a director either.
@Birdwoman

Yeah,like you have to wonder what would have happened if Anakin had fallen in love with a FS like him.Would he still have fallen?It would have been interesting to explore that storyline espeically since the love story  between a FS Anakin and a FS female Jedi would have been the thing that the PT would have centered around that.How cool would it have been?  Unfortunately GL dropped the ball on that one so Reylo in a sense could be what the PT's main romance could have been if it was handled by a better writer/director.

It could have been really interesting indeed. I think that if Anakin had fallen in love with a FS, they would have both left the Jedi Order. The story would have been entirely different, then.

But just to add to the posts above... thing is with Padmé is that she had a very idealized vision of Anakin. For a very long time, she was unable to see him truly as who he was because she still saw him as that sweet little boy she met on Tatooine. I mean, I don't even think she believed him when he said he slaughtered all the Sand People on purpose. One question I am asking myself is why she fell in love with him in the first place, but as I said before, Anidala was poorly done...

With Rey, it's different. During the interrogation scene, she went into Kylo's mind, and she sees him as who he is. He can try showing her a certain facade, but it's made clear very quickly that unlike Padmé with Anakin, Rey is having none of it. Rey is in no way blinded by love, nor scared, nor desperate when it comes to Kylo. She is bound to him, and he confuses her, because she wants to hate him but there are so many things in him that puzzle her. Padmé thought she understood Anakin: but she had the “Little-Ani-Goggles” on and wasn’t entirely able to understand Anakin, nor to totally see that he was slowly slipping away before it was too late.

That’s why it gets personal when she tells him: “You’re a monster” just before the snow fight. If you observe Rey throughout Han and Kylo’s confrontation, you realize that she looks hopeful. Nervous, but hopeful. Because she knows, and she saw things the audience didn’t see yet. And then Kylo goes and messes everything up.

So it’s that clear, non-idealized vision that changes everything, and what hints that Reylo might be Anidala done right.

And I agree with @snufkin above: Palpatine manipulated Anakin, but he also manipulated Padmé, to an extent. Eventually, she had her doubts about him, but it was already too late. It's different with Rey. She'll be the trigger to Kylo breaking his link with Snoke, and it will all be for the better.
@Irina de France

Awesome post.

And I completely agree with you on Rey's hopeful look as she was watching Kylo and Han on the bridge. I get the feeling that when he killed Han, she almost took at as a personal betrayal because of what she'd seen in his mind.

I also get the feeling that if Kylo had made a different decision and gone home with them, and he'd popped the "You need a teacher" proposal to Rey on the way back home in the Falcon, she probably would have said "yes" in about 3 seconds.

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by snufkin on Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:10 pm

Excellent insights guys! If it works out that way, it sounds like the relationship of somebody who can see you clearly, both the best and worst you're capable, and can call you out/keep your accountable on your BS. Yeah, totally sounds like a straight villain-hero relationship, nothing else going on between those two ; ).

In the final scene between them, she definitely looks personally betrayed/torn. Like the split second where her lower lip trembles like she's going to start crying and then she sets her jaw (her eyes stay cold and furious throughout). It's almost like a couples' fight ("Baby I can explain if you'll just give me a second.") in that second between them with Finn as the awkward 3rd wheel.



Last edited by snufkin on Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Darth Dementor on Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:26 pm

@Irina de France wrote:I posted the link in the meta thread, but I might as well repost it here since it is relevant to the topic:

http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/145177289657/anidala-and-reylo-mustafar-vs-interrogation-scene

I could copy and paste, but there are quite a few pics and I'm a bit too lazy to insert them all XD
@Irina de France

Reading this has made me realize Reylo will go public in Episode VIII! It's is Anadila in reverse, no doubt. Rey and Ben falling for each other is the crux of their plot and thus the entire trilogy. Waiting until the third and final movie wouldn't make sense story wise.

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by MindAndMagic on Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:43 pm

If we use TFA language, RJ must finish what JJ started. Wink
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Slade on Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:34 pm

@snufkin wrote:Excellent insights guys! If it works out that way, it sounds like the relationship of somebody who can see you clearly, both the best and worst you're capable, and can call you out/keep your accountable on your BS. Yeah, totally sounds like a straight villain-hero relationship, nothing else going on between those two ; ).

In the final scene between them, she definitely looks personally betrayed/torn. Like the split second where her lower lip trembles like she's going to start crying and then she sets her jaw (her eyes stay cold and furious throughout). It's almost like a couples' fight ("Baby I can explain if you'll just give me a second.") in that second between them with Finn as the awkward 3rd wheel.

@snufkin

Poor Kylo looks so hopeful there.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by snufkin on Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:37 pm

@slade - and she looks like she's about ready to throw a plate at his head, like it's an ugly couples' argument.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:03 am

@Slade wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Excellent insights guys! If it works out that way, it sounds like the relationship of somebody who can see you clearly, both the best and worst you're capable, and can call you out/keep your accountable on your BS. Yeah, totally sounds like a straight villain-hero relationship, nothing else going on between those two ; ).

In the final scene between them, she definitely looks personally betrayed/torn. Like the split second where her lower lip trembles like she's going to start crying and then she sets her jaw (her eyes stay cold and furious throughout). It's almost like a couples' fight ("Baby I can explain if you'll just give me a second.") in that second between them with Finn as the awkward 3rd wheel.

@snufkin

Poor Kylo looks so hopeful there.
@Slade

I know!!!! Crying or Very sad This is really, really starting to compete with the "Marry me!" look after she catches the lightsaber as my favorite gif. He looks *so beautiful and open and young* in this gif. It's unbelievable his face there!
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