Are you a fan of the Prequels?

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by Search Your Feelings on Mon 20 Jun - 4:47

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could. His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip: "we have to get more Jar Jar in there. He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men. But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings
George really felt that his franchise was for kids and families. He even said he thought some fans had trouble accepting that he had always intended the series to be modern myth or fairytale for children. Jar Jar was meant for the kids, so I wouldn't say he was out of touch with reality for wanting more of him. Jar Jar just did not work well with the adult audience at all... xD

I am a fan of the PT. It was my generation. I like the campy vibes and I find Obi-Wan, Palpatine and Qui-Gon to be some of the most memorable characters in the entire franchise. Palpatine is a much more interesting and compelling "villain" than Vader IMO (who is mainly just... sad). I don't think the acting was as bad as many do, the music was great and the story was actually really enjoyable. As many have said before me, it was the script execution that really killed the whole thing. I still really enjoy all three though, particularly RoTS.

I think the our current generation will end up being my favourite. I love Rebels so much, and I hope the ST in itself lives up to the promise TFA leaves us with.
@FrolickingFizzgig

We can agree to disagree Laughing , GL was just butthurt over the negative reactions. A good children's movie is possible to make without a character like Jar Jar and the Gungans. Hell, I would be fine with JarJar if he wasn't written so stupidly. And to sacrifice the story of Darth Vader's youth by catering to kids at the cost of the OT shows he lost track of what made the OT SW a huge hit with kids and adults. I love kid shows such as The Clone Wars (and that gets pretty dark in the later seasons - have you seen it?). I think kids can enjoy movies that don't have silly bathroom humour or thinly written characters/plot.

I love this guy's reviews and I agree with most of what he said, except not faulting HC and NP's acting because they were pretty bad. Laughing
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 20 Jun - 4:57

Search Your Feelings wrote:
FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could. His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip: "we have to get more Jar Jar in there. He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men. But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings
George really felt that his franchise was for kids and families. He even said he thought some fans had trouble accepting that he had always intended the series to be modern myth or fairytale for children. Jar Jar was meant for the kids, so I wouldn't say he was out of touch with reality for wanting more of him. Jar Jar just did not work well with the adult audience at all... xD

I am a fan of the PT. It was my generation. I like the campy vibes and I find Obi-Wan, Palpatine and Qui-Gon to be some of the most memorable characters in the entire franchise. Palpatine is a much more interesting and compelling "villain" than Vader IMO (who is mainly just... sad). I don't think the acting was as bad as many do, the music was great and the story was actually really enjoyable. As many have said before me, it was the script execution that really killed the whole thing. I still really enjoy all three though, particularly RoTS.

I think the our current generation will end up being my favourite. I love Rebels so much, and I hope the ST in itself lives up to the promise TFA leaves us with.
@FrolickingFizzgig

We can agree to disagree Laughing , GL was just butthurt over the negative reactions. A good children's movie is possible to make without a character like Jar Jar and the Gungans. Hell, I would be fine with JarJar if he wasn't written so stupidly. And to sacrifice the story of Darth Vader's youth by catering to kids at the cost of the OT shows he lost track of what made the OT SW a huge hit with kids and adults. I love kid shows such as The Clone Wars (and that gets pretty dark in the later seasons - have you seen it?). I think kids can enjoy movies that don't have silly bathroom humour or thinly written characters/plot.

I love this guy's reviews and I agree with most of what he said, except not faulting HC and NP's acting because they were pretty bad. Laughing
@Search Your Feelings
Good kid's movies can definitely be made without characters like Jar Jar, but nobody ever said the PT were "good kid's movies". I wouldn't argue that they're good at all, but that is a matter of taste.

I'm probably one of the biggest advocator's for children's and family entertainment ever. Children's stories that can be enjoyed across cultures, genders and ages are the pinnacle of art as far as I'm concerned. Not all writers are going to be able to harness what made stories like Tom Sawyer, Oliver Twist, The Lord of the Rings series or even modern animated films like Finding Nemo so deep and memorable. Not all writers are equal in that regard, and I can't hold Lucas to the same standard because understanding what people loved about the original story he created was obviously not his forte.

I do think people need to accept that Star Wars is for children because it is. It's a family-friendly tale through-and-through. That's one of the things that makes Kylo's redemption so inevitable. Star Wars is at is core full of compassion and heart.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 20 Jun - 6:11

Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could. His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip: "we have to get more Jar Jar in there. He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men. But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings

I agree with this so much. IMO, the prequels, particularly 1 and 2, (ROTS was a much better movie than the other two), are an example of where GL desperately needed the input of hard-nosed studio executives. Usually people complain about the executives and frequently with good reason, but GL is not James Cameron or the Coen Brothers. He just doesn't have the human and directorial instincts those guys have. GL may have some grand vision ideas and may be unbelievably gifted in terms of visuals, but GL *needs* studio input and people to disagree with him ... and to have those people have some power ... but because he had the all the money he didn't get that. That absolute need is crystallized by the "we need more JarJar" mentioned by @Darth Dementor above.

The success of the first 2 OT movies (because frankly except for the Vader/Luke scenes, IMO, ROTJ was not that good and was the beginning of the downslide and ROTS is actually a better movie. Interesting that ROTS came out after 2 movies full of criticism) *was* in large part due to the amazing collaboration that happened there. GL had the original idea and a ton of visual inspiration, but he was not so powerful with ANH and ESB. Gary Kurtz was still there to fight him. GL had his teacher from USC direct ESB. He actually had a Lincolnesque "Team of Rivals" team going on and it led to two strong products, with ESB actually rising to the level of a masterpiece. ANH was a great popcorn movie and changed the visual effects and box office game. But ESB hit the culture and brought the saga to a whole category. The series has been chasing a rival to ESB since 1980. TFA as a whole was not that rival because it had too much comfort food in it ... but the story around Kylo Ren and his characterization absolutely rivaled ESB ... and I'm hoping Rian Johnson runs with that and brings everyone else's story up to Kylo Ren's level. We'll have been waiting 37 years by then. It's about time a SW episode outdid ESB.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 20 Jun - 6:38

SoloSideCousin wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could. His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip: "we have to get more Jar Jar in there. He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men. But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings

I agree with this so much. IMO, the prequels, particularly 1 and 2, (ROTS was a much better movie than the other two), are an example of where GL desperately needed the input of hard-nosed studio executives. Usually people complain about the executives and frequently with good reason, but GL is not James Cameron or the Coen Brothers. He just doesn't have the human and directorial instincts those guys have. GL may have some grand vision ideas and may be unbelievably gifted in terms of visuals, but GL *needs* studio input and people to disagree with him ... and to have those people have some power ... but because he had the all the money he didn't get that. That absolute need is crystallized by the "we need more JarJar" mentioned by @Darth Dementor above.

The success of the first 2 OT movies (because frankly except for the Vader/Luke scenes, IMO, ROTJ was not that good and was the beginning of the downslide and ROTS is actually a better movie. Interesting that ROTS came out after 2 movies full of criticism) *was* in large part due to the amazing collaboration that happened there. GL had the original idea and a ton of visual inspiration, but he was not so powerful with ANH and ESB. Gary Kurtz was still there to fight him. GL had his teacher from USC direct ESB. He actually had a Lincolnesque "Team of Rivals" team going on and it led to two strong products, with ESB actually rising to the level of a masterpiece. ANH was a great popcorn movie and changed the visual effects and box office game. But ESB hit the culture and brought the saga to a whole category. The series has been chasing a rival to ESB since 1980. TFA as a whole was not that rival because it had too much comfort food in it ... but the story around Kylo Ren and his characterization absolutely rivaled ESB ... and I'm hoping Rian Johnson runs with that and brings everyone else's story up to Kylo Ren's level. We'll have been waiting 37 years by then. It's about time a SW episode outdid ESB.
@SoloSideCousin

It is a hard task. I do not want to say impossible, because everything is possible.
However 37 years is a quite a gap,a movie is a classic (the masterpiece of genre), and it is very hard to beat.
I am aware that the story around Kylo Ren (a Skywlaker of 21st century) has a huge potential to make a step further from ESB, but as well, the B plot has to have a top quality contnet.
Kasdan & Kershner did it with the growing tension of Han & Leia buliding romance. Which culuminated with the litteraly input of an actor (Harrison changed "I love you, too" in "I know" and the rest was history.
To match ESB, a lots of things have to fall into the right places.

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 20 Jun - 7:01

Darth_Awakened wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could. His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip: "we have to get more Jar Jar in there. He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men. But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings

I agree with this so much. IMO, the prequels, particularly 1 and 2, (ROTS was a much better movie than the other two), are an example of where GL desperately needed the input of hard-nosed studio executives. Usually people complain about the executives and frequently with good reason, but GL is not James Cameron or the Coen Brothers. He just doesn't have the human and directorial instincts those guys have. GL may have some grand vision ideas and may be unbelievably gifted in terms of visuals, but GL *needs* studio input and people to disagree with him ... and to have those people have some power ... but because he had the all the money he didn't get that. That absolute need is crystallized by the "we need more JarJar" mentioned by @Darth Dementor above.

The success of the first 2 OT movies (because frankly except for the Vader/Luke scenes, IMO, ROTJ was not that good and was the beginning of the downslide and ROTS is actually a better movie. Interesting that ROTS came out after 2 movies full of criticism) *was* in large part due to the amazing collaboration that happened there. GL had the original idea and a ton of visual inspiration, but he was not so powerful with ANH and ESB. Gary Kurtz was still there to fight him. GL had his teacher from USC direct ESB. He actually had a Lincolnesque "Team of Rivals" team going on and it led to two strong products, with ESB actually rising to the level of a masterpiece. ANH was a great popcorn movie and changed the visual effects and box office game. But ESB hit the culture and brought the saga to a whole category. The series has been chasing a rival to ESB since 1980. TFA as a whole was not that rival because it had too much comfort food in it ... but the story around Kylo Ren and his characterization absolutely rivaled ESB ... and I'm hoping Rian Johnson runs with that and brings everyone else's story up to Kylo Ren's level. We'll have been waiting 37 years by then. It's about time a SW episode outdid ESB.
@SoloSideCousin

It is a hard task. I do not want to say impossible, because everything is possible.
However 37 years is a quite a gap,a movie is a classic (the masterpiece of genre), and it is very hard to beat.
I am aware that the story around Kylo Ren (a Skywlaker of 21st century) has a huge potential to make a step further from ESB, but as well, the B plot has to have a top quality contnet.
Kasdan & Kershner did it with the growing tension of Han & Leia buliding romance. Which culuminated with the litteraly input of an actor (Harrison changed "I love you, too" in "I know" and the rest was history.
To match ESB, a lots of things have to fall into the right places.
@Darth_Awakened

I agree, but Episode VIII already is already ahead of the game on some things. The plan for the trilogy is much more laid out than things were for the OT. They have a strong writer/director pre-approved by Kasdan himself. Kathleen Kennedy has produced something like 80+ movies, several of them Oscar winning and Oscar nominated. There was no producer on the OT with that kind of resume. And ... and this might be heresy ... but I'm going to say it ... for as good as Harrison Ford is (and he was fantastic in TFA), Adam Driver is better, and so is Oscar Isaac. In fact, IMO, the ST quad of AD, DR, JB and OI is significantly stronger in acting range and ability than the OT 3. Add in Oscar-winner Benecio del Toro and Oscar-nominated Laura Dern, and this sith is going to start getting serious.

There is so much potential here that if they screwed this Episode VIII up, I am going to be seriously annoyed! Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 20 Jun - 7:18

SoloSideCousin wrote:
Darth_Awakened wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could. His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip: "we have to get more Jar Jar in there. He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men. But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings

I agree with this so much. IMO, the prequels, particularly 1 and 2, (ROTS was a much better movie than the other two), are an example of where GL desperately needed the input of hard-nosed studio executives. Usually people complain about the executives and frequently with good reason, but GL is not James Cameron or the Coen Brothers. He just doesn't have the human and directorial instincts those guys have. GL may have some grand vision ideas and may be unbelievably gifted in terms of visuals, but GL *needs* studio input and people to disagree with him ... and to have those people have some power ... but because he had the all the money he didn't get that. That absolute need is crystallized by the "we need more JarJar" mentioned by @Darth Dementor above.

The success of the first 2 OT movies (because frankly except for the Vader/Luke scenes, IMO, ROTJ was not that good and was the beginning of the downslide and ROTS is actually a better movie. Interesting that ROTS came out after 2 movies full of criticism) *was* in large part due to the amazing collaboration that happened there. GL had the original idea and a ton of visual inspiration, but he was not so powerful with ANH and ESB. Gary Kurtz was still there to fight him. GL had his teacher from USC direct ESB. He actually had a Lincolnesque "Team of Rivals" team going on and it led to two strong products, with ESB actually rising to the level of a masterpiece. ANH was a great popcorn movie and changed the visual effects and box office game. But ESB hit the culture and brought the saga to a whole category. The series has been chasing a rival to ESB since 1980. TFA as a whole was not that rival because it had too much comfort food in it ... but the story around Kylo Ren and his characterization absolutely rivaled ESB ... and I'm hoping Rian Johnson runs with that and brings everyone else's story up to Kylo Ren's level. We'll have been waiting 37 years by then. It's about time a SW episode outdid ESB.
@SoloSideCousin

It is a hard task. I do not want to say impossible, because everything is possible.
However 37 years is a quite a gap,a movie is a classic (the masterpiece of genre), and it is very hard to beat.
I am aware that the story around Kylo Ren (a Skywlaker of 21st century) has a huge potential to make a step further from ESB, but as well, the B plot has to have a top quality contnet.
Kasdan & Kershner did it with the growing tension of Han & Leia buliding romance. Which culuminated with the litteraly input of an actor (Harrison changed "I love you, too" in "I know" and the rest was history.
To match ESB, a lots of things have to fall into the right places.
@Darth_Awakened

I agree, but Episode VIII already is already ahead of the game on some things. The plan for the trilogy is much more laid out than things were for the OT. They have a strong writer/director pre-approved by Kasdan himself. Kathleen Kennedy has produced something like 80+ movies, several of them Oscar winning and Oscar nominated. There was no producer on the OT with that kind of resume. And ... and this might be heresy ... but I'm going to say it ... for as good as Harrison Ford is (and he was fantastic in TFA), Adam Driver is better, and so is Oscar Isaac. In fact, IMO, the ST quad of AD, DR, JB and OI is significantly stronger in acting range and ability than the OT 3. Add in Oscar-winner Benecio del Toro and Oscar-nominated Laura Dern, and this sith is going to start getting serious.

There is so much potential here that if they screwed this Episode VIII up, I am going to be seriously annoyed! Laughing Laughing Laughing

@SoloSideCousin

I agree on the actors line up.
However McGregor, Portman and Neeson were as well top actors (I saw Natalie in Leon before PM - and she was brilliant therefore I was quite ecstatic when she was cast in SW - and I still think of her as a classy actress) but we all know how it ended.
Though potential is there for EP VIII I do not doubt it - but after the prequels fiasco I am maybe too cautios in my expectations.
I must admit I went into TFA with so much trepidation and reluctancy - that the outcome of it positively surprised me at multiple levels.

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by CienaRee on Mon 20 Jun - 10:14

SoloSideCousin wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could.  His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip:  "we have to get more Jar Jar in there.   He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men.  But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings

I agree with this so much.  IMO, the prequels, particularly 1 and 2, (ROTS was a much better movie than the other two), are an example of where GL desperately needed the input of hard-nosed studio executives.  Usually people complain about the executives and frequently with good reason, but GL is not James Cameron or the Coen Brothers.  He just doesn't have the human and directorial instincts those guys have.  GL may have some grand vision ideas and may be unbelievably gifted in terms of visuals, but  GL *needs* studio input and people to disagree with him ... and to have those people have some power ... but because he had the all the money he didn't get that.  That absolute need is crystallized by the "we need more JarJar" mentioned by @Darth Dementor above.

The success of the first 2 OT movies (because frankly except for the Vader/Luke scenes, IMO, ROTJ was not that good and was the beginning of the downslide and ROTS is actually a better movie.  Interesting that ROTS came out after 2 movies full of criticism) *was* in large part due to the amazing collaboration that happened there.  GL had the original idea and a ton of visual inspiration, but he was not so powerful with ANH and ESB.  Gary Kurtz was still there to fight him.  GL had his teacher from USC direct ESB.  He actually had a Lincolnesque "Team of Rivals" team going on and it led to two strong products, with ESB actually rising to the level of a masterpiece.  ANH was a great popcorn movie and changed the visual effects and box office game.  But ESB hit the culture and brought the saga to a whole category.  The series has been chasing a rival to ESB since 1980.  TFA as a whole was not that rival because it had too much comfort food in it ... but the story around Kylo Ren and his characterization absolutely rivaled ESB ... and I'm hoping Rian Johnson runs with that and brings everyone else's story up to Kylo Ren's level.  We'll have been waiting 37 years by then.  It's about time a SW episode outdid ESB.
@SoloSideCousin
Sometimes I wonder if somefans wouldt have been so critical over the possibility of the OT3 not being perfect and their legacy being Kylo especially when we talk about the possibility of a redemption and Han/Leia/Luke having failed him in some ways   if RTJ had ended on a more bitter note like they Kasdan and Kurtz orginally wanted instead of the sugar coated  somewhat unrealistic happily ever after that GL ended up forcing on them.
That's realy a complain I've seen by some people that TFA destroyed everything they had accomplished and the happy ending they had in RTJ reverting things back to how they were in ANH and they do have some points to be honest.I think it would have been nice to have a new generation of Jedi shown for the first time after the Prequals and showing whether they were different or the same as the older ones.They should have also explained what exatly the FO wanted to accomplish or at least clarify that they weren't a rip off of the old Empire.

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 20 Jun - 20:03

CienaRee wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could.  His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip:  "we have to get more Jar Jar in there.   He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men.  But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings

I agree with this so much.  IMO, the prequels, particularly 1 and 2, (ROTS was a much better movie than the other two), are an example of where GL desperately needed the input of hard-nosed studio executives.  Usually people complain about the executives and frequently with good reason, but GL is not James Cameron or the Coen Brothers.  He just doesn't have the human and directorial instincts those guys have.  GL may have some grand vision ideas and may be unbelievably gifted in terms of visuals, but  GL *needs* studio input and people to disagree with him ... and to have those people have some power ... but because he had the all the money he didn't get that.  That absolute need is crystallized by the "we need more JarJar" mentioned by @Darth Dementor above.

The success of the first 2 OT movies (because frankly except for the Vader/Luke scenes, IMO, ROTJ was not that good and was the beginning of the downslide and ROTS is actually a better movie.  Interesting that ROTS came out after 2 movies full of criticism) *was* in large part due to the amazing collaboration that happened there.  GL had the original idea and a ton of visual inspiration, but he was not so powerful with ANH and ESB.  Gary Kurtz was still there to fight him.  GL had his teacher from USC direct ESB.  He actually had a Lincolnesque "Team of Rivals" team going on and it led to two strong products, with ESB actually rising to the level of a masterpiece.  ANH was a great popcorn movie and changed the visual effects and box office game.  But ESB hit the culture and brought the saga to a whole category.  The series has been chasing a rival to ESB since 1980.  TFA as a whole was not that rival because it had too much comfort food in it ... but the story around Kylo Ren and his characterization absolutely rivaled ESB ... and I'm hoping Rian Johnson runs with that and brings everyone else's story up to Kylo Ren's level.  We'll have been waiting 37 years by then.  It's about time a SW episode outdid ESB.
@SoloSideCousin
Sometimes I wonder if somefans wouldt have been so critical over the possibility of the OT3 not being perfect and their legacy being Kylo especially when we talk about the possibility of a redemption and Han/Leia/Luke having failed him in some ways   if RTJ had ended on a more bitter note like they Kasdan and Kurtz orginally wanted instead of the sugar coated  somewhat unrealistic happily ever after that GL ended up forcing on them.
That's realy a complain I've seen by some people that TFA destroyed everything they had accomplished and the happy ending they had in RTJ reverting things back to how they were in ANH and they do have some points to be honest
.I think it would have been nice to have a new generation of Jedi shown for the first time after the Prequals and showing whether they were different or the same as the older ones.They should have also explained what exatly the FO wanted to accomplish or at least clarify that they weren't a rip off of the old Empire.
@CienaRee

On the bolded, I actually personally think of ROTJ as a "false" or "forced happy" ending. Those people were imperfect in ESB. Luke was an emotional hothead. The sudden turn to zen didn't ring all that true to me in ROTJ. As for Han and Leia, their love was incredibly apparent in ESB, but they were volatile. Prior to seeing Vader on Bespin, Leia accused Han of getting ready to walk away from her and he didn't deny it. The "frozen in carbonite" moment was a life altering moment for them that would bond them together forever (as the both are still as bonded like crazy in TFA), but ROTJ made them both too cutesy and took away all their volatility. The set-up for Hanleia in ESB was very much in line with the "back and forth" relationship TFA and Bloodline portrayed.

IMO the people portrayed in ESB *would have* screwed up with Ben in the ways they apparently. Luke was still all over the place in ESB ... That still "unsettled" aspect of him could have led him to go from Jedi site to Jedi site without rhyme or reason once he went searching with Ben in tow. Leia was so driven by ideology and her beliefs about the Rebellion she didn't care if she died on Hoth and Han had to drag her out. She didn't care if she died even though there were people who loved her and she knew that. (You see that same Leia in Bloodline and some of the comics). Han in ESB was smart and caring, but still was living life by the seat of his pants. *That guy* was always going to have a hard time settling down. *That guy* always was going to have a hard time being a traditional father and having been tortured by Vader was not going to have a lot of love for a forceuser who leaned dark, even if he couldn't help it.

GL won that battle with Lawrence Kasdan in 1982-83, but 32 years later Kasdan won the war. IMO Kasdan wrote TFA with the OT3's ESB characterizations in mind. He was never a huge supporter of ROTJ. (He still kept a "Revenge of the Jedi" poster in his office for years, which reflected the darker storyline). So he changed it. It is a jarring move for people who loved ROTJ. I think at @snufkin has an article somewhere talking about how TFA had to correct all the mistakes of ROTJ.

In fact, some of the big divide amongst the older fans might be between people who are serious ROTJ people and serious ESB people. I saw the original showings as a young child, and I am a big ESB person. ROTJ was fine when I was 8, but it was ESB that really stuck with me forever. But for some the happiness of ROTJ stuck with them I suppose.

On the rest, I think they were afraid of playing with politics because GL did it so badly in the prequels, but I agree it would have helped some ... since frankly, there is a Republic government and Leia is actually fighting a group, the FO, which is on the rise, but is not truly in charge like the Empire was. In fact, I think in Episode VIII no one is going to be in charge. Leia is basically running an "extralegal" paramilitary group to put it in the nicest way that the Republic seemingly funnels money to through back channels. This set-up is a lot more complicated than the Rebellion and frankly has a few things in common with standard definitions of terrorism. I really hope that they get more into the "grey" aspects of all of this in Episode VIII. They did a good job with it in Bloodline. Since Rian had a part in that, I am hoping he handles politics as well in Episode VIII because I think a lot of casual viewers came up with the idea that it was the Empire again when there really was a Republic. Leia just didn't like the Republic anymore and started a more militant group.


As for Luke, it would have been nice to see new Jedi ... but I have a feeling that unlike the old EU, Luke is not going to have been anywhere near as successful in teaching new Jedi. I truly think he goes off the rails somewhere and that serious mistakes on his part and probably serious "theological" agreements between Ben and Luke probably went a long way towards Ben's fall. I know in Bloodline they only refer to him as a Jedi Knight, not a Jedi Master. @Mrs Ben Solo says that indicates that his teachings have never produced a Jedi Knight. It's been close to 30 years. He could have found some force sensitive teenagers 2 years after Endor (like himself) and those people could be Jedi Masters themselves now. They obviously did not happen. What's Luke been doing? ... Which maybe ties into the big question Kathleen Kennedy presented to JJ ... "Who is Luke Skywalker?"
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by snufkin on Mon 20 Jun - 20:53

SoloSideCousin wrote:GL won that battle with Lawrence Kasdan in 1982-83, but 32 years later Kasdan won the war. IMO Kasdan wrote TFA with the OT3's ESB characterizations in mind. He was never a huge supporter of ROTJ. (He still kept a "Revenge of the Jedi" poster in his office for years, which reflected the darker storyline). So he changed it. It is a jarring move for people who loved ROTJ. I think at @snufkin has an article somewhere talking about how TFA had to correct all the mistakes of ROTJ.

Did ‘Star Wars’ become a toy story? Producer Gary Kurtz looks back

“The emphasis on the toys, it’s like the cart driving the horse,” Kurtz said. “If it wasn’t for that the films would be done for their own merits. The creative team wouldn’t be looking over their shoulder all the time.”

...
“We had an outline and George changed everything in it,” Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it. Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.

He was especially disdainful of the Lucas idea of a second Death Star, which he felt would be too derivative of the 1977 film. “So we agreed that I should probably leave.”


How ‘Return Of The Jedi’ Ruined ‘Star Wars’ Forever

No more than twenty minutes into the movie the lovable rogue Han Solo (Harrison Ford) dies fighting the evil Galactic Empire, sacrificing himself for the good of the Rebellion. The shockwaves from his death ripple through the audience and a very clear warning is issued from the filmmakers: no one is safe. Co-screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan fought for this to be a reality. So did Ford, who had grown weary of the character. But series overlord George Lucas said no. As Harrison Ford put it in 2010: "George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys."



Also to add insult to injury, just ran across another article that mentions how the Ewoks were named in dubious honor of our regional native American tribe, the Miwok.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by Search Your Feelings on Tue 21 Jun - 5:23

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could. His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip: "we have to get more Jar Jar in there. He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men. But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings
George really felt that his franchise was for kids and families. He even said he thought some fans had trouble accepting that he had always intended the series to be modern myth or fairytale for children. Jar Jar was meant for the kids, so I wouldn't say he was out of touch with reality for wanting more of him. Jar Jar just did not work well with the adult audience at all... xD

I am a fan of the PT. It was my generation. I like the campy vibes and I find Obi-Wan, Palpatine and Qui-Gon to be some of the most memorable characters in the entire franchise. Palpatine is a much more interesting and compelling "villain" than Vader IMO (who is mainly just... sad). I don't think the acting was as bad as many do, the music was great and the story was actually really enjoyable. As many have said before me, it was the script execution that really killed the whole thing. I still really enjoy all three though, particularly RoTS.

I think the our current generation will end up being my favourite. I love Rebels so much, and I hope the ST in itself lives up to the promise TFA leaves us with.
@FrolickingFizzgig

We can agree to disagree Laughing , GL was just butthurt over the negative reactions. A good children's movie is possible to make without a character like Jar Jar and the Gungans. Hell, I would be fine with JarJar if he wasn't written so stupidly. And to sacrifice the story of Darth Vader's youth by catering to kids at the cost of the OT shows he lost track of what made the OT SW a huge hit with kids and adults. I love kid shows such as The Clone Wars (and that gets pretty dark in the later seasons - have you seen it?). I think kids can enjoy movies that don't have silly bathroom humour or thinly written characters/plot.

I love this guy's reviews and I agree with most of what he said, except not faulting HC and NP's acting because they were pretty bad. Laughing
@Search Your Feelings
Good kid's movies can definitely be made without characters like Jar Jar, but nobody ever said the PT were "good kid's movies". I wouldn't argue that they're good at all, but that is a matter of taste.

I'm probably one of the biggest advocator's for children's and family entertainment ever. Children's stories that can be enjoyed across cultures, genders and ages are the pinnacle of art as far as I'm concerned. Not all writers are going to be able to harness what made stories like Tom Sawyer, Oliver Twist, The Lord of the Rings series or even modern animated films like Finding Nemo so deep and memorable. Not all writers are equal in that regard, and I can't hold Lucas to the same standard because understanding what people loved about the original story he created was obviously not his forte.

I do think people need to accept that Star Wars is for children because it is. It's a family-friendly tale through-and-through. That's one of the things that makes Kylo's redemption so inevitable. Star Wars is at is core full of compassion and heart.
@FrolickingFizzgig


Exactly. It's not Game of Thrones. Disney will not have Leia killing her son after the good guys deem him too evil to be saved. What kind of compassionate message is that? The good guys will inact an eye for an eye type of justice? Kylo did horrible things but I can see his character being exiled rather than put down. I always say "if they go down that route" because there is still that 1% chance that the writers might screw this up or make it a double twist and make him irredeemable and die but I really can't see it going that way. Especially with Disney allowing "Can Kylo Ren be redeemed?" ads, Matt the Radar Tech, and the "Leia's Legacy" article.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 21 Jun - 5:45

Search Your Feelings wrote:
FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Search Your Feelings wrote:
Darth Dementor wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:George Lucas should have let someone else write the romance and Jar Jar was obnoxious. Those are my only complaints.

I thought everything else was appropriate to the story and the era in which it took place. I especially thought the artistic styling - the scenery, the smoothness/curvaciousness/fluidity of ships, buildings, etc., featuring of art pieces in Palpatine's office and scene set in an opera - were all evocative of Obi-Wan's description of "elegance" for "a more civilized age" in ANH. Speaking of elegant weapons, I loved the lightsaber duels and thought the proficiency being several steps above what we had seen in the OT was apropos given we were seeing a generations of fully trained Jedi and Sith.
@MeadowofAshes

What made me realize how out of touch he was was his insistence on putting Jar Jar in TPM as much as he could. His exact words, in a behind the scenes clip: "we have to get more Jar Jar in there. He's the funniest character we got."

He honestly believe he was the funniest character in the movie and everyone was going to love him?
@Darth Dementor

**facepalm**
He definitely was out of touch from being surrounded by yes men. But I still respect him for creating SW and the OT but a lot of the success of the OT had to do with the people around him creating the models, the writing, the actors adlibbing, etc.

@Search Your Feelings
George really felt that his franchise was for kids and families. He even said he thought some fans had trouble accepting that he had always intended the series to be modern myth or fairytale for children. Jar Jar was meant for the kids, so I wouldn't say he was out of touch with reality for wanting more of him. Jar Jar just did not work well with the adult audience at all... xD

I am a fan of the PT. It was my generation. I like the campy vibes and I find Obi-Wan, Palpatine and Qui-Gon to be some of the most memorable characters in the entire franchise. Palpatine is a much more interesting and compelling "villain" than Vader IMO (who is mainly just... sad). I don't think the acting was as bad as many do, the music was great and the story was actually really enjoyable. As many have said before me, it was the script execution that really killed the whole thing. I still really enjoy all three though, particularly RoTS.

I think the our current generation will end up being my favourite. I love Rebels so much, and I hope the ST in itself lives up to the promise TFA leaves us with.
@FrolickingFizzgig

We can agree to disagree Laughing , GL was just butthurt over the negative reactions. A good children's movie is possible to make without a character like Jar Jar and the Gungans. Hell, I would be fine with JarJar if he wasn't written so stupidly. And to sacrifice the story of Darth Vader's youth by catering to kids at the cost of the OT shows he lost track of what made the OT SW a huge hit with kids and adults. I love kid shows such as The Clone Wars (and that gets pretty dark in the later seasons - have you seen it?). I think kids can enjoy movies that don't have silly bathroom humour or thinly written characters/plot.

I love this guy's reviews and I agree with most of what he said, except not faulting HC and NP's acting because they were pretty bad. Laughing
@Search Your Feelings
Good kid's movies can definitely be made without characters like Jar Jar, but nobody ever said the PT were "good kid's movies". I wouldn't argue that they're good at all, but that is a matter of taste.

I'm probably one of the biggest advocator's for children's and family entertainment ever. Children's stories that can be enjoyed across cultures, genders and ages are the pinnacle of art as far as I'm concerned. Not all writers are going to be able to harness what made stories like Tom Sawyer, Oliver Twist, The Lord of the Rings series or even modern animated films like Finding Nemo so deep and memorable. Not all writers are equal in that regard, and I can't hold Lucas to the same standard because understanding what people loved about the original story he created was obviously not his forte.

I do think people need to accept that Star Wars is for children because it is. It's a family-friendly tale through-and-through. That's one of the things that makes Kylo's redemption so inevitable. Star Wars is at is core full of compassion and heart.
@FrolickingFizzgig


Exactly. It's not Game of Thrones. Disney will not have Leia killing her son after the good guys deem him too evil to be saved. What kind of compassionate message is that? The good guys will inact an eye for an eye type of justice? Kylo did horrible things but I can see his character being exiled rather than put down. I always say "if they go down that route" because there is still that 1% chance that the writers might screw this up or make it a double twist and make him irredeemable and die but I really can't see it going that way. Especially with Disney allowing "Can Kylo Ren be redeemed?" ads, Matt the Radar Tech, and the "Leia's Legacy" article.
@Search Your Feelings

What "Leia's Legacy" article? :-)
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by Search Your Feelings on Tue 21 Jun - 6:18

@SoloSideCousin
The Star Wars official account tweeted that this author was releasing an article(?) about the ladies of Star Wars and their legacies. One of them was Leia. And then one of us replied to that saying, "Leia has suffered enough, Kylo needs to die so Ben Solo can live". The Star Wars account and the author of the article "liked" that reply. So it seems they understand that Leia has endured enough and deserves to have her son redeemed. Smile
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by MissG on Tue 21 Jun - 22:29

CienaRee wrote:
MissG wrote:I actually prefer the PT over OT and especially ROTS, but maybe it has something to do with me watching them years before I ever watched OT and I only did that because I was really interested in Vader's story. Now don't kill me I know many people find Prequels cringe worthy, but for me Originals are even more so, when I was watching ROTJ for example I wanted to take out a gun and shoot all the ewoks, why did they take so much of the movie?! Recently I have a bit more appreciation for all of the films though, perhaps because from a member of GA I turned into more of a fan and pay more attention to detail.
@MissG

I know what you mean while I'm not a fan of the PT as a whole I prefer RTS over RTJ.I mean out of all the SW movies I consider ESB to be the best of them all but I consdier RTS to be the darkes one yet and you know it could have been really amazing if the writing was also great.
I dont really have a problem with HC as Anakin and I thoguht he did a great job in RTS showing the conflicting emotions inside Anakin.
However in my opinion GL had no idea how to combine Anakin and Vader into one person and make them sympathetic and tragic at the same time since originally he intende for Vader to be one dimensional villian who fell to the DS because of his greed for more power and for Anakint be this noble warrior who was a hero of TCW.Unfortunately GL failed in  presenting us a more 3 dimensional character eventhough RTS came pretty close to what could have been.
As for RTJ while I do like the movie and it still felt like a true SW movie I think that was around  the time where  real decline of  of the saga  started which later  resulted in the Prequals.
In my opinion RTJ just wasnt able to live up to his predecessor ESB and it had lots of potential but Lucas made some really lame decisions because he wanted everyone to have a Happy Ending so we had the fearsome and deadly Empire from ANH and especially ESB be defeated by teddy bears,another Death Star, Han/Leia being regulated to supporting characters with not much to do not to mention the twist with Leia being Anakis daughter only being added because Lucas didnt want to make anymore movies and wanted to wrap the triangele thus no real emotion was shown from Leia about Vader being her biological father.
The Vader/Luke scenes remain one of the most amazing and iconic ones in all the sage but to be honest some of the Empero's dailogue during those scenes made me cringe they just made him over the top evil,IMO.
@CienaRee

ESB is my favourite out of the three too. I remember watching OT for the first time with a person who has seen the movies before and commenting in fury on some of the characters behaviors, like Vader treating Leia the way he did or some of Luke and Leia interactions. I knew they were related, but had no idea Lucas himself made it up as he went, so imagine my shock and horror seeing some of the things. I think perhaps I would have enjoyed the movies much more if I watched them first without previous knowledge of who is who. There are some jems there too, like most of Luke and Vader scenes especially the death one(although it did break my heart that he never got to properly interact with his daughter).
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by Irina de France on Mon 4 Jul - 2:47

I actually like the prequels, to be honest. I fully acknowledge they’re very flawed, but I enjoy them nonetheless. I guess I came to appreciate them even more thanks to the The Clone Wars series, which I very much recommend (since you get really good character development, with an actually humanly flawed and likeable Anakin and an actually tolerable Jar Jar, believe or not), but I think the PT gets way too much hate for nothing. The OT wasn’t perfect either, and I honestly don’t expect the ST to be perfect as well (I mean, TFA sure wasn’t, even though I loved it).

Things I liked:

- Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi. Like, I have to admit his acting could be a bit flat at times, but his “Brittitude” made it look somewhat natural. HIS SASS THOUGH.
- Qui-Gon Jinn. I think he’s very underrated, and he makes a very interesting Grey Jedi (yes, I know that term is an EU term), and if you dig a bit, you realize that he would have probably been a far better master for Anakin (No offense, Obi, you did your best).
- The lightsaber duels were absolutely amazing. Special mention to the Mustafar duel and the dueling ballet in the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Darth Maul battle. I seriously want Rey to battle like that with her double-bladed lightsaber.
- The podracing sequence was pretty cool too.
- I actually love Padmé? I think she gets a lot of hate for nothing. She was definitely the heroine of TPM, not Anakin, thank you very much. She got tons of bad writing and cringe-worthy dialogue, but I actually liked her in AOTC (even though her romance with Anakin was very poorly done). In ROTS… again, she couldn’t do much because she was pregnant, and it was necessary for the OT’s sake, and I’m still SO MAD her scenes where, ya know, SHE ACTUALLY FOUNDS THE REBELLION WITH BAIL ORGANA AND MON MOTHMA WERE FRIGGING CUT. I don’t blame her for crying on Mustafar either (I mean, for Lord’s sake, she’s preggers, her hubby is a Sith lord who massacred a bunch of kids and he’s just expecting her to be a-okay with that and become his other half for an Unholy Matrimony, the democracy she’s been fighting for is falling apart and a guy who was a mentor to her and whom she trusted is actually evil incarnated), because, jeez, I’d probably cry too. I really REALLY don’t buy her dying of a broken heart, because we’re talking about Padmé Frigging Amidala, former Queen of Naboo, Senator and founder of the Rebellion. I agree 100% to the theory Pappy used Padmé to have Vader survive using the same trick Darth Plagueis did. If it isn’t that, I’ll be in denial like Luke in ESB. XD Like, sure, Padmé was not a I-take-no-shits-woman like Leia, but she had a strength of her own. So yeah. I’m going to stop right there because I could defend Padmé for hours.
- Hayden Christensen. Yes, I’m totally putting him here because that poor guy got way too much hate for nothing. George Lucas had no idea how to direct actors and he was a victim of that (not as badly as Natalie Portman, but still). The monotonous voice wasn’t his fault, for instance, since he got told he needed to have the same intonations as Vader (like, HELLO? Of course his voice is flat, because he needs a dang machine to talk since his cords got lavaf**ked). I mean, what makes me really sad is that we got glimpses of how good he could have been. He had the right intensity for the role and he never faded away whenever the focus was on him. And he is a good actor. I got to see him in another of his films, and he was pretty good. It’s very unfortunate SW more or less ruined his career, and I think it speaks lengths about the guy when he says he’s not even bitter about it, that he still loves SW and if he got a call for the ST or a spin-off movie, he’d say yes immediately. So yeah, all the kudos for Hayden for doing his best out of scrap.
- DOUBLE-BLADED LIGHTSABER. JUST GIVE REY ONE ALREADY.
- ROTS was dark and good. Not perfect, but good. I actually prefer it to ROTJ. (Well, my favorite order for SW movies is basically 5-7-4-3-6-1-2, so yeah)
- Darth Maul. Well, I like the way he duels. He was definitely wasted in TPM. Thank god TCW fixed it as usual.
- The soundtrack is absolutely GORGEOUS. John Williams at his best. Duel of the Fates, Across the Stars, Battle of the Heroes, the Order 66 music…
- I actually like Anidala, and there were quite a few legitimate themes and imagery they presented with their relationship. The trick is to not look at it too much with pink-tinted glasses, and I like the Knight and Dame imagery they had (and I hope they give that to Reylo plenty). The execution was pretty poor, though, and Hayden and Natalie didn’t have very good chemistry, which is a shame (I’m glad it’s not because they hated each other in real life, though: they seemed fairly friendly to each other behind the scenes).
- I don’t see the point of complaining about Hayden appearing in ROTJ. Like, meh.
- The very bittersweet ending with Leia ending up on Alderaan with Bail and Breha Organa, and the view we get of an absolutely beautiful planet that’s going to end up blown up in ANH, while Luke ends up with Owen and Beru Lars on Tatooine while a melancholic Obi-Wan looks at them all watching the binary sunset… gorgeous. It gets me every time.
- The costumes and the designs. Good lord, the PT is absolute costume porn, I can’t even. Definitely a more civilized age.
- Palpatine was hella hammy in ROTS, but I kinda liked his hamminess. I also loved his chessmaster side.

Things I’m indifferent/iffy about:

- I admit it, I think Jar Jar Binks is annoying AF, but I don’t think he’s that bad? I mean, he isn’t that important to the plot, come to think of it, and you could easily ignore his existence. He was actually okay in The Clone Wars TV series, as I said above. Overall, I think people are making a big fuss over him for nothing, even though the character is overall pretty racist and insulting. But you know – Jar Jar was meant to be a character for the kids. Thing is, the kids were indifferent to him.
- The Gungans aren’t that bad either. Jar Jar is annoying, but on the other hand, they’re not really. I just don’t care about them.
- Anakin could have so great, but the execution was very poor. I don’t hate him, though. (Again, WATCH TCW)
- The CGI is going to age pretty poorly. I’m still able to be indifferent about it, because I’ve seen far worse special effects in movies. But the PT is a product of its time, I guess (just like I frigging hate some effects for Bram Stoker’s Dracula, among other issues I have with that film… but again, it’s a product of its time). Plus, the CGI is a detail, and it’s not that relevant to the plot.
- I don’t mind the technology being less advanced, because George Lucas did say once that the Empire was meant to show some sort of regression compared to the Republic, but still, it is a bit of an issue.
- Not gonna lie, TPM and AOTC can get pretty boring at times. There’s a lot of filling, if you ask me. I don’t cringe at that, though.
- Natalie Portman. Like, I’m sorry, but she was the weakest out of the main trio. It makes me sad to say that, because she is a dang good actress. I watched the PT when I was little, didn’t see it for a while, saw Natalie in Black Swan and adored her, then I saw the PT again and went: “Holy sith, what happened?!” But again, I blame George Lucas.
- The politics weren’t that bad, even though it was all better explained in TCW. The series also made it a lot less black and white. Still poorly done and kinda boring at times. The whole shift from democracy to dictatorship was unfortunately quite believable.
- I’m pretty indifferent about Yoda. I guess the fact that I liked him in the OT kind of saved him for me, but lord, he could be so dumbass at times, especially when it came to Anakin and Padmé? It was almost laughable.

Things I hated:

- Nute Gunray. GOOD LORD. I mentioned above that Jar Jar is a pretty racist character, but if I try hard enough, I can actually forget about it (really not a very good thing to do, but hey). Nute Gunray, though… I just CAN’T, no matter what. The analogy is just way too glaring, up to the accent. TCW made a lot of things in the PT a lot more tolerable for me, but I still cringed whenever I saw Nute Gunray in it. So yeah, the Trade Federation can go in the trash compactor in a heartbeat.
- Mace Windu. I don’t know if it was intentional, but I can’t stand that stuck-up Jedi prick. Like, REALLY CAN’T. But since he’s just as bad in TCW (like he’s REAL SMOOTH WITH BOBA FETT. REAL SMOOTH.), I think it was intentional. I look at him, and I just say to myself: yeah, if there were more Jedi behaving like you out there, no wonder the Jedi Order fell.
- The dialogues could be so, so cringe-worthy at times. Like, WHAT WAS GEORGE LUCAS THINKING? DID YA SPENT YOUR ENTIRE LIFE IN A CAVE GEORGIE?  
- “I don’t like sand. It’s coarse, rough, irritating and it gets everywhere.” LIKE, COME ON BRO.
- Meh, I said I liked Anidala, but I don’t see how or why they fell in love in the first place? Again, poor execution. And again, TCW saved the day and gave me clues to why they might have fallen in love with each other, by seeing their interactions with each other.
- Christopher Lee as Count Dooku. Like, SERIOUS WASTE of a potentially good character, and SERIOUS SERIOUS WASTE OF CHRISTOPHER LEE. I love that guy like you have no idea. And I admit I laughed my a** off when I saw him goin’ around on his little bike.
- General Grievous, aka Most Pointless SW Character Ever.

So I look at my list and I find it a bit funny that the things I liked list is longer, but hey. The meh and the bad more or less outweigh it. Still don't really hate the PT, though.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by panki on Mon 4 Jul - 5:12

I just saw Jar Jar in one of the new comics..... at least I think it is Jar Jar.... looks like he isn't in a good place during the time of the Empire....he is on Nar Shadda in a dingy bar and has one eye...... I don't know whether to be happy or sad about this.... on one hand I was irritated by his character...but not enough to see him look like this either.... Neutral

Spoiler:

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 4 Jul - 5:20

@Panki
OMFG??? I hope I don't get lynched but... poor Jar Jar. Sad
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by panki on Mon 4 Jul - 5:27

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Panki
OMFG??? I hope I don't get lynched but... poor Jar Jar. Sad
@FrolickingFizzgig

I completely agree Sad

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by guardienne on Wed 20 Jul - 16:11

SoloSideCousin wrote:


As for Luke, it would have been nice to see new Jedi ... but I have a feeling that unlike the old EU, Luke is not going to have been anywhere near as successful in teaching new Jedi. I truly think he goes off the rails somewhere and that serious mistakes on his part and probably serious "theological" agreements between Ben and Luke probably went a long way towards Ben's fall. I know in Bloodline they only refer to him as a Jedi Knight, not a Jedi Master. @Mrs Ben Solo says that indicates that his teachings have never produced a Jedi Knight. It's been close to 30 years. He could have found some force sensitive teenagers 2 years after Endor (like himself) and those people could be Jedi Masters themselves now. They obviously did not happen. What's Luke been doing? ... Which maybe ties into the big question Kathleen Kennedy presented to JJ ... "Who is Luke Skywalker?"
@SoloSideCousin

this is very good thinking and i can't believe that kylo simply tracked them all down individually and killed them and they did nothing.

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by jakkusun on Wed 20 Jul - 19:10

Almost everything has already been said. I'll just add that I liked General Grievous. I always thought he was hilarious. He was just a cowardly, tired, angry, over-the-top, cyborg with a chronic cough and blanket-cape. I found all of that very relatable. idk I kind of just stomp around my house all tired and grumpy, with a blanket wrapped around my shoulders like a cape a lot. xD It is funny how much he hates the droids in TCW cartoon, too.
Also the dude just has a e s t h e t i c.

Also I found out about his now non-canon backstory and I loved it. Wish this were canon still. The narrator of this story isn't the best, but he puts the story together nicely:


Also these now non-canon clips from the 2D clone wars are awesome (I know the animation is a really bad and it is just a bunch of fighting, but dang it is cool). Grievous was the best part of the clone wars 2D, along with Shaak Ti. I wish they had been like this in the movies. It would have been epic:


Sure, he is just a silly, one-note, disposable villain, but I love him all the same. lol
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by MindAndMagic on Mon 29 Aug - 22:32

As we were talking about parallels between Anakin & Padme/Rey & Kylo, I thought I'd share this finding as food for thought:



As is probably the case with the young folk here, my childhood belongs with the PT. RotS is my absolute favourite of the trilogy, I enjoy rewatching it. I'm obviously not an OT fangirl, never have been. Despite all the technical faults, I actually find the story of the PT to be far more interesting, including the love story, which just suffers from unsatysfyng execution. As far as narrative potential goes, however, the prequels have a lot to offer. Some of the characterisation was actually pretty compelling, particularly Obi-Wan and Palpatine. This potential could serve as an inspiration for the new story. In a way we finally have a chance to see Anidala done right with our beautiful, strong-headed heroine and our favourite, conflicted anti-villain.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by CienaRee on Mon 29 Aug - 22:53

Queen of the Knights wrote:As we were talking about parallels between Anakin & Padme/Rey & Kylo, I thought I'd share this finding as food for thought:



As is probably the case with the young folk here, my childhood belongs with the PT. RotS is my absolute favourite of the trilogy, I enjoy rewatching it. I'm obviously not an OT fangirl, never have been. Despite all the technical faults, I actually find the story of the PT to be far more interesting, including the love story, which just suffers from unsatysfyng execution. As far as narrative potential goes, however, the prequels have a lot to offer. Some of the characterisation was actually pretty compelling, particularly Obi-Wan and Palpatine. This potential could serve as an inspiration for the new story. In a way we finally have a chance to see Anidala done right with our beautiful, strong-headed heroine and our favourite, conflicted anti-villain.
@Queen of the Knights
The PT was my childhood as well.I remeber enjoying the movies very much when they first came out. I completly agree that the PT had the potential to be so much better than the OT(I'm not an OT fangirl either) but unfortunately they didn't have the same luck as the OT did still I don't hate them and while I see their flaws and think they could have been so much better I don't get the passionate hatred against them.The OT has its falws as well but you won't hear any hardcore fan  disscussing  or criticizing them like they do with the PT.
I actually remember reading a tumblr blog dedicated to the PT   and there was a post that  defending the Anakin/Padme love story and the poster discussed   how GL wanted to tell a deeper story with them back with Han/Leia in the OT:
http://swprequelframes.tumblr.com/post/119096607747/what-about-the-love-story

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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by vaderito on Tue 30 Aug - 2:16

I sure as hell hope TP serves as inspiration for VIII at least. World building is fantastic and it's about various FS. I want to learn more about the Force. Sorry but never cared for the Rebellion and definitely don't give a flying fig about the Resistance. Rian says he finds TP beautiful and I agree. People are way too focused on flaws. I'm gonna marathon watch all 3 for the weekend. Must admit Kylo and Reylo fired up my interest in them so I'm becoming quite an expert in TP.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 18 Feb - 15:49

I avoided PhantomMenace,but I really enjoyed Revenge of the Sith. Attack of the Clones was spoiled by an abysmal script but I loved Ewan MacGregor in it, and I liked Padme. Anakin came into his own in ROTS for me - the scene just before he set off on his killing spree was heartbreaking; so much emotion in the single shedding of a tear. But the ST are a completely new era, and what Ifound compelling was both the excellent script and the acting of the cast. Daisy impressed me with her utter naturalness - she didn't give a fig how she looked. John and Oscar had incredible comic timing but also showed a serious side - but the scene stealer for me was Adam, who I think is going to be the most memorable character in Star Wars. Ever. And this from an old timer who remembers the OT back when they were first released.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by Rogue Rey on Sat 18 Feb - 16:15

I wouldn't say I was a fan of the PT. I really only became a big fan of SW after I saw TFA - I liked the OT but when I was a kid growing up they were my Brother's movies not mine. The PT were the first SW films I saw in the cinema - can't remember if I saw TPM in the cinema but remember seeing AoTC and RoTS in the cinema.

My fault with the PT is the at time ludicrous writing and wooden acting. And do not get me started on Jar Jar Binks and his over use.

I really liked Ewan McGregor as Obi-wan and think he grew into the roll over the trilogy, Natalie Portman on the other hand had some choice moments, but that might be the way the character of Padme was written - from butt kicking Queen and Senator to crying damsel in distress. Marrying Anakin Skywalker was the worst thing to happen to that character (literally). Sadly Anakin Skywalker struck me as way more tantrum throwing sulky teenager than Kylo Ren ever did - but his conflict and struggle in RoTS was his best bits for showing off the character.

So overall while I appreciate the PT, there is really only one of them I would actually watch again by choice and that's RoTS - it just upped its game from TPM and AoTC - less Jar Jar more story/drama and better action.
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Re: Are you a fan of the Prequels?

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 18 Feb - 16:37

I enjoy the PT, yes.

The Phantom Menace is... complicated, but I like it because it was the first SW movie I watched on the theaters.

Attack of the Clones has a terrible script, but I love Padmé and Obi-Wan.

Revenge of the Sith is great and one of my favorite SW movies. I love Anakin and his descent, I love his fight with Obi-Wan, and the scene where he becomes Darth Vader is one of the best scenes of the franchise.
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