Why do we care so much?

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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by Slade on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 6:57 pm

@Irina de France wrote:You know, I've been a casual fan of Star Wars before seeing TFA. I had seen all six movies, I knew a thing or two about the EU (like I knew all about Mara Jade, Admiral Thrawn, Jacen and Jaina Solo, but that was it), I LOVED Han and Leia (and I still love them today), but I wasn't really a die-hard fan.

My sister (who's fourteen years old) went to see it on December 21 (I think) with her school as a Christmas activity. She spoiled A LOT of things for me, including Han Solo's death, and no, I still haven't forgiven her. For some reason, she thought Rey and Kylo were brother and sister (but I don't blame her, because she's a bit innocent and she didn't pick up on some vibes), so when she told me that, I just said to myself: "Oh, so Kylo Ren and Rey are basically Jacen and Jaina Solo. Nice."

I had seen the trailers and the snippets before, and everything, but when I went around the internet and saw people saying Rey was a Solo, others saying she was Luke's daughter, and most especially, people shipping her with Kylo Ren while she had been marketed with Finn, and with my sister telling me Rey was Han and Leia's daughter, I was very confused.

So about a month later, I finally got up and went to see TFA in theaters, keeping in mind Rey was a Solo or at the very least a Skywalker.

The movie started, it was nice, it was fun, the characters were all likeable, but when Rey met Han, that's when things started getting... fishy. I had the strong impression Han knew who Rey was, but if she was his daughter... that left a lot of plot holes all of a sudden that I simply couldn't explain or wouldn't paint Han and Leia in a very good light. The Force vision came, I more or less clung to the belief that Rey was a Skywalker because that could explain why the only person she interacted with in the Force vision was Kylo, since they were both Skywalkers, and that was during her touching the legacy lightsaber, etc.

But then the Takodana scene came, along with the bridal carry, and my mind just clicked at that moment and I just went like: "WHAAAAAAAAAAT"

The unmasking really didn't help. Like, I had seen pics of Adam Driver before, but I didn't think he was particularly attractive (I wasn't like those ***holes saying he was ugly, though), but when the mask came out, I just went like: "HOLY SITH, WHO IS THIS GUY?" Rey's face was my face exactly, except it was probably even funnier.

And for the rest of the movie, I just looked at all of Rey and Kylo's interactions, and I came out of the movies saying to myself: "REY AND KYLO REN ARE GONNA BANG"

Queue me saying: "Oh lord, I'm trash."



(No, I did not really jump from a roof into the garbage can where I belong and failed.)

But basically, I was pretty sure when I came out of TFA that I was seeing things, and that Rey/Kylo was not going to happen, and that Finnrey was most certainly going to be endgame. It didn't make much sense to me for her to be a Skywalker, since their interactions didn't feel very... cousin-ish, to say the least. But then I went on the internet, I came across very well-written and well-thought metas, with analogies coming from literature, cinema, etc., and all the BatB parallels came back to me and smacked me in the face. And heaven knows BatB is my siren call.

TFA is what really got me into Star Wars. I've been watching The Clone Wars ever since, discovered even more EU material (the KOTOR universe in particular), read some canon novels...

I think the new characters are very engaging. I personally love Finn, and I really hope they'll give him the character development he deserves and not waste John Boyega. But I think I actually love Rey more than Kylo, since I always tend to prefer the female lead over the male lead(s) XD But I think I'm getting a similar pattern here with the OT: I love Finn/Luke, but I much prefer Rey/Kylo/Han/Leia to them. And I love Rey/Leia most of them all.

I think Rey was a very interesting and complex female lead, even though she's still more or less in a blank state, and I really can't wait to see how she'll unfurl. I don't think she'll be the classic heroine, though (Finn will be the classic hero, probably): I think she's going to become a more morally grey character, and I really can't wait to see that unfurl. Well, I do have a feeling they'll be testing the waters with a morally grey heroine with Jyn Erso in Rogue One, but hey. But as so many people said, she was at her most interesting whenever she was around Kylo. And honestly, I've looked at the story from every angle, and the only way it can go forward for Rey as a heroine is by Reylo, in one way or another. Otherwise, we either get an OT rehash or the story just stagnates for pretty much everyone, because ultimately, everything resolves around them both. I mean, of course, you can still get a B-plot with Finn/the Resistance, but still, the two ends will eventually meet.

For what is of Kylo... I think I care a lot about his redemption first of all because Han and Leia are my OT baes, and it would just plain sad if their son died unredeemed. Leia has been going through way too much BS in her life and deserves a break, Han died to show his son he isn't completely Dark, and Kylo just becoming more and more evil would make his father's death pointless. And we're talking about one of the most beloved characters in the SW franchise. But at the same time, Kylo gives me such a lost little boy vibe that despite all the terrible things he has done (and as much as Snoke was after him, he's still responsible for them, like it or not) I just can't bring myself to hate him at all. He's clearly so miserable I actually feel sorry for him, and I just don't see him as a bad seed, no matter what. He's unhappy, and in my eyes, even if he owes his mom a hella good apology for everything he has done, he still needs to be saved. It really horrified me how people said that he deserved to die, and that no one should help him, especially not Rey, since it would "diminish her character". Like yes, if it was her sole purpose, that would be a problem. But it's a whole other matter to say she's not allowed to be compassionate and kind, and as I said, it horrifies me that people can think that way and be so heinous.

Maybe it's due to my upbringing and that I'm Roman Catholic, and that my beliefs are very much based on forgiveness, mercy and redemption, but while I do acknowledge that some people are total monsters and you can't do anything for them, some people aren't, and do need a helping hand. And  to me, Kylo falls in that category.
@Irina de France

Entire post is great, bolded part is double great.  I was also horrified at the utter lack of compassion a lot of people had for him (and I am pro death penalty!).  I guess I compare Kylo's actions to actual humans like Ted Bundy and honestly, there is no comparison.  Especially since Kylo's actions (tuanal village) happened within the context of armed conflict and might have had some kind of military/war justification (we don't know enough yet).  

And the bolded comment about Rey's character being diminished...in what warped reality does showing compassion make someone "less" good, moral, worthy, admirable?  The very notion that Rey cannot show Kylo compassion because it would diminish her role as a "strong female role model" is some kind of f***** up twisted "feminist" agenda bs. (and I'm a very staunch feminist, but that attitude I just described looks nothing like feminism as I understand it).  In essence, they are asking that Rey be *less* moral in order to fit their agenda.
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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by Slade on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 6:58 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ZenBrainJam wrote:I personally care about Kylo Ren because he is the classic villain that you can perceive as worthy of compassion when he is still on the bad side. I know that he will turn to the light during the ST and I am totally fine with this (renperor dosn't exixst as a real possibility IMO). But in the meantime the thing that can really captivate me is the real chance that Rey and other characters could feel him whorty of their affection before his redemption. No one is the sum of his/her sins or failures or mistakes. We make mistakes, but our failures are not ourselves, I don't know if I am explaining here or not... I am not saying that killing Han is a small thing, it's not. Nor I am saying that Kylo Ren will not suffer in VIII or IX, or he will not try to atone and struggle doing it. He probably will. But it's not the struggling after the realization that he needs to redeem himself and repair his mistakes that I find fascinating. It's the "I love you" before that realization, the "you are worthy of affection" that will trigger the redemption that I find riveting. And maybe I will have all of this in VIII, who knows. We shall see...
"

Oh this is all so beautiful!!! Especially the bolded! Bravo!!!!!!!! (I need to get a good clapping emoji just for these kinds of occasions!!!)  Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

And that bolded part? When Rey shows Kylo that, I think that will be what brings Kylo back from the darkness he is drowning in.
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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by Slade on Mon 04 Jul 2016, 7:04 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:I care because of the epic potential this story holds.

The child of two strong original characters fallen to the dark side?

That same legacy character struggling with not the dark, but with being drawn to the light?

A storm trooper with an actual soul?

More to the force than just jedi and sith?

A woman that's a fighter and a man that shows emotions?

Two force users on opposite sides, possibly meaning the world to each other?

Two young people fighting dragons of loneliness and belonging, potentially finding home and balance at last?

I'll have twenty, please. What a Face
@Xylo Ren

It is rather mind-blowing, isn't it?  In the best way.
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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by LadyHa on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 4:58 pm

One of the aspects that hooked me is that I like to figure out puzzles.  After I watched TFA, I felt... puzzled.  What did I just see?  What did certain scenes or lines mean?  What are the tropes and ideas that the writers were drawing from?  Why wasn't a romantic/ erotic angle mentioned in reviews or being discussed in messageboards?  

This site and many of the essays linked in the metas thread have spun so many interesting ideas to answer these questions!  Just when I think that it has been analyzed to death and I have it all figured out, someone points out something I hadn't thought of.  Discussing this film has provided me with a great jumping off point to finding out about other interesting films and stories.
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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by Guest on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 9:55 pm

I've never cared this much about two fictional characters getting together before... ever. I used to "ship" non-canon pairings just for fun all the time, but Reylo is somehow very different. It isn't so much about the smut that is so easy to find in fanfiction, I want to see these two interact and develop together in a meaningful way, and yes, eventually fall in love.

It's not only about the sexual tension, even though that is one facet of it. Kylo is clearly on the wrong side of the war, he doesn't want to be there and there is so much for him to overcome internally before he can escape. I want Rey to be somehow involved in his redemption, directly or indirectly, as at least one of the reasons for him to finally answer the call to the light.

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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by Mana on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 10:19 pm

The relationship between Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker was what really got me hooked onto Star Wars, as well as the romance (between both Han and Leia AND Anakin and Padme). While my brother loved Star Wars for the light saber fights and the tie-fighters and x-wings, I loved the human element of it.
My brother took me to see TFA, and when I was watching, I didn't automatically assume Rey was a Skywalker, except when my brother put  it into my head, and I really thought Finn and Rey were going to be THE romance of the ST (because of the marketing) and was dissapointed with their portrayal as a 'couple' onscreen....it was underwhelming. Kylo Ren was interesting to me from the beginning because my brother already spoilt his parentage reveal for me. But I really got hooked in all the scenes with Rey and Kylo. I somehow knew something was going on with them, and that it would be the real story and possibly THE romance. Afterwards I knew there was no way Rey was a Skywalker and  I understood why Finn and Rey seemed so bland as a couple, because they were never meant to be romantic. However, I did love Rey and Finn as individual characters and their relationship was sweet.
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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 10:46 am

We care because there is a bit of Kylo in all of us.

Whether you are mentally ill, have been abused, have had a difficult relationship with your parents, or simply feel ostracised in some way - this character is someone a lot of people can identify with. Kudos to Adam for fleshing him out so well. Kudos to the writers who have created him as such. I particularly approve of how they have chosen to address some serious issues with this film, subtle as it is. We have a villain who is a victim of child abuse.
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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 12:22 pm

@Mana wrote:The relationship between Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker was what really got me hooked onto Star Wars, as well as the romance (between both Han and Leia AND Anakin and Padme). While my brother loved Star Wars for the light saber fights and the tie-fighters and x-wings, I loved the human element of it.
My brother took me to see TFA, and when I was watching, I didn't automatically assume Rey was a Skywalker, except when my brother put  it into my head, and I really thought Finn and Rey were going to be THE romance of the ST (because of the marketing) and was dissapointed with their portrayal as a 'couple' onscreen....it was underwhelming. Kylo Ren was interesting to me from the beginning because my brother already spoilt his parentage reveal for me. But I really got hooked in all the scenes with Rey and Kylo. I somehow knew something was going on with them, and that it would be the real story and possibly THE romance. Afterwards I knew there was no way Rey was a Skywalker and  I understood why Finn and Rey seemed so bland as a couple, because they were never meant to be romantic. However, I did love Rey and Finn as individual characters and their relationship was sweet.
@Mana

They were great friends. I loved that they were portrayed as such. I'm looking forward to seeing how Finn interacts with Rose just as I cant wait for more interaction between Rey and Kylo.
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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by fuhry on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 2:05 pm

I got hooked on Star Wars because of the high drama of it. High stakes, a young kid taken in by an old warrior, talking about "The Force". A jaded pilot and his frightening yet lovable furry sidekick, and a kickass princess who has her s*** together better than all of them. An abbott and costello pair of droids. After seeing the original Star Wars, the escape of Darth Vader at the end just screamed "Sequel" and when it arrived, it blew our minds by going in several directions we didn't expect. That started the cycle of anticipation. ROTJ, in retrospect, was not quite as good but at the time it delivered, and with it an aching that Star Wars was over. I wanted more, read the Zahn trilogy, and when the Prequels were announced, it was a tad disappointing. It's a little different when you know the final outcome. It's interesting seeing how they get there, and I was into it, but I still wanted to know what happened to my childhood heroes. When I found out I was going to get that, I was over the moon.

TFA wasn't a perfect movie and wasn't quite how I expected it to go, but from the point at which the First Order blows up the quadjumper and Rey says "The garbage one will do" and the camera pans to the MF, I knew that Abrams and co. had captured the right blend of drama, humor, and loveable characters that made the OT so magical. Like ANH, it set up a lot of mystery (quite a bit more actually).

And the return to the state of really not knowing how the story is going to go, but being absolutely attached to the characters has ramped up the caring for me. I want to know what happens to these characters so badly. And it's been fun to share all the speculation not just with my friends that I see in person, but with fellow fans in forums like this. And it's been fun to find this forum.

I get worried that I care too much. Sometimes I neglect other things in my life (like work right now LOL) . And I've started to feel worried that I'll be disappointed that things didn't go along with my headcanon. But... I've never walked out of a Star Wars movie disappointed (well maybe a little with Rogue 1), and Rian Johnson seems like a really thoughtful and intelligent guy. So I'm looking forward to TLJ and the next 2 years of speculation!
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Re: Why do we care so much?

Post by ReyofLightSide on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 2:31 pm

I have a lot of nostalgia with Star Wars to begin with, but after seeing TFA and the Reylo chemistry I was hooked.
I am excited there will be a sweeping romance possibility and will be what Padme/Anakin wasn't.
I want to see how Ben will be redeemed.
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