Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Jul - 19:52

@panki I see. I skip chapters that aren't relevant to TFA and all stuff that is about Rebel group is irrelevant. I read Imperial chapters cause that's beginning of FO. And of course Leia and Han ones.
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by panki on Wed 27 Jul - 19:54

@vaderito wrote:@panki I see. I skip chapters that aren't relevant to TFA and all stuff that is about Rebel group is irrelevant. I read Imperial chapters cause that's beginning of FO. And of course Leia and Han ones.
@vaderito

That's okay.... the other parts of the story are for people like me who like exploring the rest of the SW world and its characters. Smile

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Jul - 19:57

@panki wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@panki I see. I skip chapters that aren't relevant to TFA and all stuff that is about Rebel group is irrelevant. I read Imperial chapters cause that's beginning of FO. And of course Leia and Han ones.
@vaderito

That's okay.... the other parts of the story are for people like me who like exploring the rest of the SW world and its characters. Smile
@panki

They are for Pankipedia! We do need official Pankipedia thread with all EU stuff that could come in handy. Very Happy
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 27 Jul - 20:35

@vaderito wrote:@panki I see. I skip chapters that aren't relevant to TFA and all stuff that is about Rebel group is irrelevant. I read Imperial chapters cause that's beginning of FO. And of course Leia and Han ones.
@vaderito

Be careful a huge thing happens at the end with some Rebel members. You will want to read some of that closely.
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Jul - 20:37

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@panki I see. I skip chapters that aren't relevant to TFA and all stuff that is about Rebel group is irrelevant. I read Imperial chapters cause that's beginning of FO. And of course Leia and Han ones.
@vaderito

Be careful a huge thing happens at the end with some Rebel members. You will want to read some of that closely.
@SoloSideCousin

OK, that thing with Nora's hubby I guess.
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 27 Jul - 20:38

@vaderito wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@panki I see. I skip chapters that aren't relevant to TFA and all stuff that is about Rebel group is irrelevant. I read Imperial chapters cause that's beginning of FO. And of course Leia and Han ones.
@vaderito

Be careful a huge thing happens at the end with some Rebel members. You will want to read some of that closely.
@SoloSideCousin

OK, that thing with Nora's hubby I guess.
@vaderito

Right. :-)
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by IoJovi on Wed 27 Jul - 20:45

Shhhhhhh. Laughing

Just kidding. If I wanted to avoid spoilers I shouldn't be in this thread to begin with... Razz

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by IoJovi on Fri 29 Jul - 2:14

On page 120... I know I argued pretty vehemently prior to this book's release that Rax wasn't Snoke. I said there's no way they would put a character like that in a book, or give us more of his backstory that's not in a film.

Yet...here I am... Laughing


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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 29 Jul - 2:17

@IoJovi wrote:On page 120... I know I argued pretty vehemently prior to this book's release that Rax wasn't Snoke.  I said there's no way they would put a character like that in a book, or give us more of his backstory that's not in a film.  

Yet...here I am... Laughing

@IoJovi

I know. I'm not finished with the book yet, but there sure seem to be an awful lot of parallels between Rax and Snoke.

ETA: And like you, I thought that there would be no way that Snoke would be introduced in a book like this, but some of the parallels are hard to ignore.
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by CienaRee on Fri 29 Jul - 8:32

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:On page 120... I know I argued pretty vehemently prior to this book's release that Rax wasn't Snoke.  I said there's no way they would put a character like that in a book, or give us more of his backstory that's not in a film.  

Yet...here I am... Laughing

@IoJovi

I know. I'm not finished with the book yet, but there sure seem to be an awful lot of parallels between Rax and Snoke.

ETA: And like you, I thought that there would be no way that Snoke would be introduced in a book like this, but some of the parallels are hard to ignore.
@ISeeAnIsland

That's why I've developed this theory that Snoke is inhabiting Rax's dead body.I just find it hard to believe they would give his whole backstory in novels before episode 8 or 9 are released(and Bloodline didn't mention him at all even in chpaters from Carice Cindian's POV).I mean come on,this is like Reywalker they know very weel what they were doing they're aware people will think  Rax is Snoke just like they bought the red herrings about Rey being a Skywalker.
I don't know I'm waiting for the final novel to come out because for all we know Rax might end up dying in it.

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 29 Jul - 8:50

@CienaRee wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:On page 120... I know I argued pretty vehemently prior to this book's release that Rax wasn't Snoke.  I said there's no way they would put a character like that in a book, or give us more of his backstory that's not in a film.  

Yet...here I am... Laughing

@IoJovi

I know. I'm not finished with the book yet, but there sure seem to be an awful lot of parallels between Rax and Snoke.

ETA: And like you, I thought that there would be no way that Snoke would be introduced in a book like this, but some of the parallels are hard to ignore.
@ISeeAnIsland

That's why I've developed this theory that Snoke is inhabiting Rax's dead body.I just find it hard to believe they would give his whole backstory in novels before episode 8 or 9 are released(and Bloodline didn't mention him at all even in chpaters from Carice Cindian's POV).I mean come on,this is like Reywalker they know very weel what they were doing they're aware people will think  Rax is Snoke just like they bought the red herrings about Rey being a Skywalker.
I don't know I'm waiting for the final novel to come out because for all we know Rax might end up dying in it.
@CienaRee

I do think that Snoke s obvious omission from Bloodline (which I found more than interesting) just adds more evidence that Rax is indeed Snoke.
(Everybody relevant in Bloodline thought Rax died during the battle of Jakku).
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by CienaRee on Fri 29 Jul - 9:19

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:On page 120... I know I argued pretty vehemently prior to this book's release that Rax wasn't Snoke.  I said there's no way they would put a character like that in a book, or give us more of his backstory that's not in a film.  

Yet...here I am... Laughing

@IoJovi

I know. I'm not finished with the book yet, but there sure seem to be an awful lot of parallels between Rax and Snoke.

ETA: And like you, I thought that there would be no way that Snoke would be introduced in a book like this, but some of the parallels are hard to ignore.
@ISeeAnIsland

That's why I've developed this theory that Snoke is inhabiting Rax's dead body.I just find it hard to believe they would give his whole backstory in novels before episode 8 or 9 are released(and Bloodline didn't mention him at all even in chpaters from Carice Cindian's POV).I mean come on,this is like Reywalker they know very weel what they were doing they're aware people will think  Rax is Snoke just like they bought the red herrings about Rey being a Skywalker.
I don't know I'm waiting for the final novel to come out because for all we know Rax might end up dying in it.
@CienaRee

I do think that Snoke s obvious omission from Bloodline (which I found more than interesting) just adds more evidence that Rax is indeed Snoke.
(Everybody relevant in Bloodline thought Rax died during the battle of Jakku).
@Darth_Awakened

It could really be that Rax is indeed Snoke,but I actually find it interesting that Carice Cindian only mentions Brendol Hux and his  dissapearance  after the Battle of Jakku yet she makes no mention of rax at all.
I haven't yet read the books but from my understanding the Rebels/New Republic know Rax simply as the Operator not by his real name so if he survies I don't know why he would change his name and call himself by another title instead of Emperor rax like he does at the end of Life Debt.
Someone else on another forum also mentioned that Snoke has blue eyes while rax has black and in the audio he has a British accent while Snoke doesn't(not sure if he has one in the movie I think @panki said he did.I don't know maybe that person only meant the audio version of the novelization but then he also mentioned that they got everyone else's accents right so it would be weird if they mistook Snoke's Question ).
I don't know maybe Empire's End will give us some of these answers because it directly ties with TFA.

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by MeadowofAshes on Fri 29 Jul - 9:23

@CienaRee wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:On page 120... I know I argued pretty vehemently prior to this book's release that Rax wasn't Snoke.  I said there's no way they would put a character like that in a book, or give us more of his backstory that's not in a film.  

Yet...here I am... Laughing

@IoJovi

I know. I'm not finished with the book yet, but there sure seem to be an awful lot of parallels between Rax and Snoke.

ETA: And like you, I thought that there would be no way that Snoke would be introduced in a book like this, but some of the parallels are hard to ignore.
@ISeeAnIsland

That's why I've developed this theory that Snoke is inhabiting Rax's dead body.I just find it hard to believe they would give his whole backstory in novels before episode 8 or 9 are released(and Bloodline didn't mention him at all even in chpaters from Carice Cindian's POV).I mean come on,this is like Reywalker they know very weel what they were doing they're aware people will think  Rax is Snoke just like they bought the red herrings about Rey being a Skywalker.
I don't know I'm waiting for the final novel to come out because for all we know Rax might end up dying in it.
@CienaRee

I do think that Snoke s obvious omission from Bloodline (which I found more than interesting) just adds more evidence that Rax is indeed Snoke.
(Everybody relevant in Bloodline thought Rax died during the battle of Jakku).
@Darth_Awakened

It could really be that Rax is indeed Snoke,but I actually find it interesting that Carice Cindian only mentions Brendol Hux and his  dissapearance  after the Battle of Jakku yet she makes no mention of rax at all.
I haven't yet read the books but from my understanding the Rebels/New Republic know Rax simply as the Operator not by his real name so if he survies I don't know why he would change his name and call himself by another title instead of Emperor rax like he does at the end of Life Debt.
Someone else on another forum also mentioned that Snoke has blue eyes while rax has black and in the audio he has a British accent while Snoke doesn't(not sure if he has one in the movie I think @panki said he did?).
I don't know maybe Empire's End will give us some of these answers because it directly ties with TFA.
@CienaRee

It's a little out there but there's also still the possibility that Snoke-Ra is some ancient evil that was buried in the Jakku ground and Rax unleashed him.
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by CienaRee on Fri 29 Jul - 9:54

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:On page 120... I know I argued pretty vehemently prior to this book's release that Rax wasn't Snoke.  I said there's no way they would put a character like that in a book, or give us more of his backstory that's not in a film.  

Yet...here I am... Laughing

@IoJovi

I know. I'm not finished with the book yet, but there sure seem to be an awful lot of parallels between Rax and Snoke.

ETA: And like you, I thought that there would be no way that Snoke would be introduced in a book like this, but some of the parallels are hard to ignore.
@ISeeAnIsland

That's why I've developed this theory that Snoke is inhabiting Rax's dead body.I just find it hard to believe they would give his whole backstory in novels before episode 8 or 9 are released(and Bloodline didn't mention him at all even in chpaters from Carice Cindian's POV).I mean come on,this is like Reywalker they know very weel what they were doing they're aware people will think  Rax is Snoke just like they bought the red herrings about Rey being a Skywalker.
I don't know I'm waiting for the final novel to come out because for all we know Rax might end up dying in it.
@CienaRee

I do think that Snoke s obvious omission from Bloodline (which I found more than interesting) just adds more evidence that Rax is indeed Snoke.
(Everybody relevant in Bloodline thought Rax died during the battle of Jakku).
@Darth_Awakened

It could really be that Rax is indeed Snoke,but I actually find it interesting that Carice Cindian only mentions Brendol Hux and his  dissapearance  after the Battle of Jakku yet she makes no mention of rax at all.
I haven't yet read the books but from my understanding the Rebels/New Republic know Rax simply as the Operator not by his real name so if he survies I don't know why he would change his name and call himself by another title instead of Emperor rax like he does at the end of Life Debt.
Someone else on another forum also mentioned that Snoke has blue eyes while rax has black and in the audio he has a British accent while Snoke doesn't(not sure if he has one in the movie I think @panki said he did?).
I don't know maybe Empire's End will give us some of these answers because it directly ties with TFA.
@CienaRee

It's a little out there but there's also still the possibility that Snoke-Ra is some ancient evil that was buried in the Jakku ground and Rax unleashed him.
@MeadowofAshes

I'm thinking that the evil force influencing people to kill loved ones is Snoke.

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 29 Jul - 10:37

I am not so crazy about   "ancient evil" theories.
Snoke-Ra or Snoke-Balrog (Snalrog lol) is possible at this moment I agree, but somehow it does not have  SW vibe at least for me.
Force sensitive people and Galaxy far, far away are more than enough of fantasy elements for me - when it comes to SW I am more than fine into enjoying the personal s conflict.


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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by panki on Fri 29 Jul - 11:08

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:On page 120... I know I argued pretty vehemently prior to this book's release that Rax wasn't Snoke.  I said there's no way they would put a character like that in a book, or give us more of his backstory that's not in a film.  

Yet...here I am... Laughing

@IoJovi

I know. I'm not finished with the book yet, but there sure seem to be an awful lot of parallels between Rax and Snoke.

ETA: And like you, I thought that there would be no way that Snoke would be introduced in a book like this, but some of the parallels are hard to ignore.
@ISeeAnIsland

That's why I've developed this theory that Snoke is inhabiting Rax's dead body.I just find it hard to believe they would give his whole backstory in novels before episode 8 or 9 are released(and Bloodline didn't mention him at all even in chpaters from Carice Cindian's POV).I mean come on,this is like Reywalker they know very weel what they were doing they're aware people will think  Rax is Snoke just like they bought the red herrings about Rey being a Skywalker.
I don't know I'm waiting for the final novel to come out because for all we know Rax might end up dying in it.
@CienaRee

I do think that Snoke s obvious omission from Bloodline (which I found more than interesting) just adds more evidence that Rax is indeed Snoke.
(Everybody relevant in Bloodline thought Rax died during the battle of Jakku).
@Darth_Awakened

It could really be that Rax is indeed Snoke,but I actually find it interesting that Carice Cindian only mentions Brendol Hux and his  dissapearance  after the Battle of Jakku yet she makes no mention of rax at all.
I haven't yet read the books but from my understanding the Rebels/New Republic know Rax simply as the Operator not by his real name so if he survies I don't know why he would change his name and call himself by another title instead of Emperor rax like he does at the end of Life Debt.
Someone else on another forum also mentioned that Snoke has blue eyes while rax has black and in the audio he has a British accent while Snoke doesn't(not sure if he has one in the movie I think @panki said he did?).
I don't know maybe Empire's End will give us some of these answers because it directly ties with TFA.
@CienaRee

It's a little out there but there's also still the possibility that Snoke-Ra is some ancient evil that was buried in the Jakku ground and Rax unleashed him.
@MeadowofAshes

I like the theory that there is an ancient evil possessing people, making them do stuff that they would not normally do...especially after reading the two Aftermath novels and the recent comics. In Aftermath Part 1, we even have a non-FS like Yupe Tashu who is into sith practices due to a demonic sith mask in his possession. So Snoke could even be a non-FS who has gained FS abilities due to whatever is possessing him.



That being said, I can think of three (maybe four) people who I feel could be Snoke (or at least Snoke's body)....so far....I could be way off but this is my list: Smile

1. Gallius Rax: The mark on his palm makes me think the holy men he lived are similar to the EU prophets of the dark side.. while he might not have had strong FS abilities initially, he might have unleashed something during Palpatine's archaeological excavations which took over his body and influenced all his actions by the time of Aftermath. His frequent change of title from Operator to Counsellor to Emperor shows he is capable of taking on titles like Supreme Leader.

Prophet of the dark side (since I don't have a picture of Rax)

2. Sargent Kreel/Agent 5241/the Gamemaster: This guy is an alien and if Snoke is humanoid, this guy becomes a strong candidate. He was brought up in the fighting pits of his planet and watched his father getting killed at the age of four- and stopped crying after that. The Empire closed to fighting pits and rescued him so he grew up to be a loyal imperialist. He joined an elite storm trooper group known as Vader's Fist/ 501st legion and worked as an undercover agent personally reporting to Vader. While not FS, he was proficient with using a lightsaber and even had access to jedi artifacts during his stint as Gamemaster on an assignment. He even briefly trained Luke in lightsaber combat when Luke was captured and made to fight animals in an arena. I put him on this list because he is a Vader and Imperial fan boy and his story is still being told in the SW comics- he would definitely appreciate Ben being a living Vader relic.



3. Eneb Ray/Tharius Demo: This guy was an imperial official who was a secret agent of the rebels. He knew Leia personally and reported to her (it explains the part about Snoke knowing Leia personally). Someone had mentioned that Snoke used to be handsome ....this guy was good looking at one point of time. During one assignment, he discovers that Palpatine is a sith Lord and he gets struck by force lighting, barely making it out alive. He was one of seven agents and the rest died during the same assignment . He disappears for some time and later reappears. Due to the after effects of the force lightning, he became disfigured and insane, killing people and is especially obsessed with making Leia listen to him. He also seems to be talking to himself or something in the latest story where he appears. His story hasn't been told fully and Leia is determined to help him.... this would definitely give him access to a young Ben Solo.



Sargent Kreel and Eneb Ray are undercover agents.....they have watched the empire rise and fall...and have watched events from the shadows.

Now here is another character who I am adding to the list but am not fully certain about (but it would be an interesting possibility)....

4. Caleb Dume/Kanan Jarrus: He is the most well known of the four due to his role in Rebels...but he has seen his jedi master (with whom he had a force bond) get killed before his eyes, seen the rise and fall of the Empire and seen his friends suffer at the hands of the Imperials. he is also good looking and before he joined the Rebels, was a bit of a ladies man. Like most dark side users before him, what if he gives in to the corruption of the dark side in the hope of helping his friends and the galaxy....his interaction with the Bendu, getting possessed by the nightsister mist and also his holding a red and blue lightsaber in his force vision makes him a potential candidate as well (being neither jedi or sith). He also knew Leia from their time as rebels just like Snoke seems to know her personally.


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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by IoJovi on Sun 7 Aug - 16:57

"He'll be a bandit. He'll be an angel. Nothing wrong with bandits or angels..."

Yep - perfect mixture or dark and light.

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by vaderito on Sun 7 Aug - 17:30

@IoJovi wrote:"He'll be a bandit. He'll be an angel. Nothing wrong with bandits or angels..."

Yep - perfect mixture or dark and light.
@IoJovi

Bandit:



Angel:

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by panki on Sun 7 Aug - 19:56

Bandit = stealing hearts Twisted Evil


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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by vaderito on Sun 7 Aug - 20:05

@panki wrote:Bandit = stealing hearts Twisted Evil

@panki

That's KylO'Real Twisted Evil
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by IoJovi on Sun 7 Aug - 22:24

And done.  Just read briefly through this thread again no longer living in fear of spoilers.  I had this sneaking suspicion that Rax is Snoke, or possibly one form Snoke has taken on over the years.  If it's the latter, it probably has something to do with the artifact Sheev assigned him to guard.  

The idea of Snoke being just a deformed man in his mid 70s (if you do the math) isn't ringing true for me.  There's more to it than that.

Regardless, the two aren't unrelated if they aren't the same person.

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by vaderito on Mon 8 Aug - 0:14

I think that Acolytes of the Beyond may be the forefathers of Knights of Ren. They worship Vader and KoR bow to Vader's grandson. makes sense. Also, they would eagerly assist Vader's grandson in the quest for Anakin's lightsaber (which was McGuffin in the earlier version of the script).
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 8 Aug - 0:16

@vaderito wrote:I think that Acolytes of the Beyond may be the forefathers of Knights of Ren. They worship Vader and KoR bow to Vader's grandson. makes sense. Also, they would eagerly assist Vader's grandson in the quest for Anakin's lightsaber (which was McGuffin in the earlier version of the script).
@vaderito

There was also the bit about the Acolytes of the Beyond needing to "earn" their masks. I'm still not done with the book yet, so I don't know if that comes back to be important later, but it seems like sort of a random detail to include if there wasn't going to be some connection to the KoR.

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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by vaderito on Mon 8 Aug - 0:19

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@vaderito wrote:I think that Acolytes of the Beyond may be the forefathers of Knights of Ren. They worship Vader and KoR bow to Vader's grandson. makes sense. Also, they would eagerly assist Vader's grandson in the quest for Anakin's lightsaber (which was McGuffin in the earlier version of the script).
@vaderito

There was also the bit about the Acolytes of the Beyond needing to "earn" their masks. I'm still not done with the book yet, so I don't know if that comes back to be important later, but it seems like sort of a random detail to include if there wasn't going to be some connection to the KoR.
@ISeeAnIsland

Good catch. Plus, JJ and kasdan want a KoR movie so there must be more to them than canon fodder for Luke, though doubtful we'll get more in the movie. Books, however...January's going to be fun when Empire End comes out.
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Re: Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wending

Post by panki on Mon 8 Aug - 4:01

In the EU, there are sith acolytes who used to wear masks and studied under a sith lord.... this system existed prior to Darth Bane's Rule of Two (only two official sith- a master and an apprentice) so there is a chance that someone familiar with the really ancient sith ways is teaching them all this....maybe we're getting the first hints of the existence of Snoke here? I know Snoke himself isn't sith but he might be familiar with the ancient ways of the sith since archaeology and finding ancient sith artifacts plays a prominent role in the ST.

I'm also intrigued by these lines from Life Debt:

Phantasms pursue her. She dreams of Han, dead in the snow. She dreams of poor Chewie in a cage somewhere. She dreams of herself on a table, dying as her child—no, children—are born. Then comes a vision of Luke, lost among the stars, searching for something and failing, never returning. She dreams of being lost in a forest, and then of being lost inside the Death Star—she and Luke and Han are fleeing stormtroopers, trying desperately to get back to the Falcon after Obi-Wan powers down the tractor beam controls, but now she knows the dread truth: He failed, he died, and the ship is still anchored there, and even if they could find their way out of the tangle of passages, they’ll never escape…

The first thing is that Leia's visions remind me the ones Anakin had, which led him to make some decisions that pushed him towards the dark side... I wonder if she continued to have scary visions and that is what made her send Ben away to Luke....also, a part of her vision did end up coming true- Han died on Starkiller base which was a snowy planet...another thing that is curious is that she mentions dying during childbirth and having children.... now this could be her experiencing Anakin's vision of Padme's death....but could Han and Leia has lost a child? A child's death can also create a rift in a marriage and their problems might have nothing to do with Ben...and it would have had some impact on Ben's childhood and life as well.

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