Rey's Vision

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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by vaderito on Fri 9 Sep - 16:31

"You will be tempted. But you can learn. The force will be with you. the dark Side...the Jedi... You will do it alone"

"You will do it ALONE." Finn Who? Bye bye Jedi!Finn!
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Kessel on Fri 9 Sep - 17:20

@Vaderito- Yeah, it's so clear that Finn is not a part of Rey's Force journey and the vision really reinforces that. If Finn is not a part of Rey's Force journey, he's not Force sensitive because Rey's Force journey is the only Force story: the circumstances involving her awakening, what happened with Luke and Kylo and Snoke and her destiny. The Force plot is not "Rey and Finn's story," it's "Rey's story." Finn has no place there unless he's rendered into a sidekick Rey doesn't need. He's a former stormtrooper who was victimized by the FO stormtrooper program implemented by the FO military (represented by Hux and Phasma). That's the organization Finn needs to take down and destroy. That's his journey.

I don't even know why Finn fans want to shoehorn Finn into Rey's Force journey. It's abundantly clear that Rey is the main ST protagonist (this is the origin story of a female Jedi) so even if they made Finn FS and at Rey's side, he would never be the main hero, he'd end up being Rey's sidekick because she will overshadow him...and I know that's NOT what Finn's fans want. They want Finn to be the main hero, or at the least, as important as Rey.

@Sylvia Snow- yeah, it looks like according to the comic book, the objects in that rain scene are all bodies, not rocks. I presume the bodies are supposed to be members of Salad bowl's clan?
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by vaderito on Fri 9 Sep - 17:28

@Kessel89 For some reason, they think it's easier for him to overtake Rey as the hero in the Force plot than Poe in the Resistance one. Which is hilarious cause Rey totally upstaged him first time around so it's good for him that she's far, far away from him in VIII. But from what I gathered, they have a huge problem with Poe becoming the leader, which Finn isn't nor he should be after 2 hour stint with the Resistance, so they invented this whole badfic where Maz endorsed him as "King Arthur" Laughing Laughing Laughing and he has more combat training than Rey so he should be the main Jedi. Laughing Laughing Laughing Ridiculous.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by snufkin on Fri 9 Sep - 17:33

Those drawings just reinforce my feeling that shoehorning Lupita Nyongo into CGI was a waste. Why not let her play it straight as herself? Maz could've just been somebody with really good genes who looks younger than her actual age.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by jakkusun on Fri 9 Sep - 18:00

@snufkin wrote:Those drawings just reinforce my feeling that shoehorning Lupita Nyongo into CGI was a waste. Why not let her play it straight as herself? Maz could've just been somebody with really good genes who looks younger than her actual age.
@snufkin

Right? She would have been so awesome without the CGI. Though I think it might have helped her practice for the role of Raksha in the Jungle Book (I loved her as Raksha so much). So, it might not have been a total waste for her, at least, since she is now very skilled with CGI acting as well as regular acting (she had gollum himself giving her CGI acting advice, haha, what a great way to learn). Still wish she could've been without the CGI in TFA, so I can't wait to see her without it in Queen of Katwe and Black Panther. Very Happy
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by vaderito on Fri 9 Sep - 18:01

@snufkin wrote:Those drawings just reinforce my feeling that shoehorning Lupita Nyongo into CGI was a waste. Why not let her play it straight as herself? Maz could've just been somebody with really good genes who looks younger than her actual age.
@snufkin

I totally think it would've been so interesting if a beautiful young woman'd played the role traditionally associated with old crones.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by ZioRen on Fri 9 Sep - 18:42

@vaderito wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Those drawings just reinforce my feeling that shoehorning Lupita Nyongo into CGI was a waste. Why not let her play it straight as herself? Maz could've just been somebody with really good genes who looks younger than her actual age.
@snufkin

I totally think it would've been so interesting if a beautiful young woman'd played the role traditionally associated with old crones.
@vaderito

I agree. And Lupita has a kind of ethereal beauty anyways, it would work. Plus they could have thrown in a funny moment related to that too! I also don't think people would call her character a shoehorned-in Yoda lite if they hadn't CGI'd her. They could have just made her a humanoid alien so they could still use her actual face and just add makeup.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by vaderito on Fri 9 Sep - 18:44

@ZioRen wrote:

I agree. And Lupita has a kind of ethereal beauty anyways, it would work. Plus they could have thrown in a funny moment related to that too! I also don't think people would call her character a shoehorned-in Yoda lite if they hadn't CGI'd her. Or if they wanted her to be an alien, they could have just made her a humanoid one so they could still use her actual face and just add makeup.
@ZioRen

Exactly. Lupita wouldn't have looked like a Yoda rehash but would've been a fresh take on the old trope.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by snufkin on Fri 9 Sep - 19:06

@ZioRen wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Those drawings just reinforce my feeling that shoehorning Lupita Nyongo into CGI was a waste. Why not let her play it straight as herself? Maz could've just been somebody with really good genes who looks younger than her actual age.
@snufkin

I totally think it would've been so interesting if a beautiful young woman'd played the role traditionally associated with old crones.
@vaderito

I agree. And Lupita has a kind of ethereal beauty anyways, it would work. Plus they could have thrown in a funny moment related to that too! I also don't think people would call her character a shoehorned-in Yoda lite if they hadn't CGI'd her. They could have just made her a humanoid alien so they could still use her actual face and just add makeup.
@ZioRen

Agreed with all of it. Plus I'm on the side of representation really does matter, especially thanks to my previous years experience teaching (SE Asian and Central American kids here in the States and West Indian and Latin American kids in the Caribbean). It means A LOT to kids to see somebody who looks like them in picture books, TV, and movies - trying to find material to reinforce that as a teacher was always a challenge. Just besides the jankiness of her CGI rendering, I would've much rather seen Lupita herself, with or without being a humanoid alien. She's a great actress and it would've made her scene with Rey (at least IMO) even more affecting.

Also my total bias, but one of my all-time favorite goofy science fiction movies, Buckaroo Banzai, the Good Guys from the alternate dimension Buckaroo teams up with to defeat the bad guys are Rastafarians. Which is amazing not just for turning the traditional idea of what good guys should look like in a standard Hollywood movie (which is what KK is doing with casting for the ST), but it's a brilliant little meta comment because of the roots of Rastafarianism in Marcus Garvey's writings on Black liberation and anti-colonialism. Plus the coolest of the Good Guys is John Parker:



And their Supreme Leader is a woman, just like Leia ;)

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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 1:15

dp

Sorry


Last edited by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 1:17; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 1:17



Bunch of bodies not rocks. That's not Ach to

That's the past.

Rain, tree, that's the future. This is not accurate to reality
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Guest on Sat 10 Sep - 1:29

I have long thought that the "killing Salad Bowl guy" moment in Rey's vision was a past event bleeding into what could be future on Ahch-To. There was such a furore when it seemed that Kylo wasn't actually saving Rey from anyone that it got lost in the confusion. Pablo said that Kylo and the Knights of Ren have slaughtered their way through villages. It doesn't mean that there's no significance to the Clan Leader event but it probably isn't what many have interpreted it as so far.

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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 1:33

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I have long thought that the "killing Salad Bowl guy" moment in Rey's vision was a past event bleeding into what could be future on Ahch-To. There was such a furore when it seemed that Kylo wasn't actually saving Rey from anyone that it got lost in the confusion. Pablo said that Kylo and the Knights of Ren have slaughtered their way through villages. It doesn't mean that there's no significance to the Clan Leader event but it probably isn't what many have interpreted it as so far.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I thought this a while ago with the saber vision theory.

Could possibly be Looking for relics, no doubt he found one, seems to get a vision of Rey but it was hidden from frame in tfa so who knows what is going on in the final version of the moivie lol
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 1:45

Oh god! Rey facing Vader



@panki wrote:
@Sylvia Snow wrote:@jakkusun

I wonder who shadow Rey was seeing in the hallway, Vader, Snoke,Luke or Kylo?

Also the KOR scene, many of us believe the surrounding is just rocks but in here, it was bodies. I wonder which is correct?
@Sylvia Snow

The TFA novel mentions that Rey sees two figures fighting at the end of the corridor in her force vision.... so the figure would most probably be Vader with his back to her.
@panki

He's walking towards her, look at the saber.

They say the hallway is supposed to resemble 2 hallways, first is where Vader fought obi wan in mustafar, second where he fought Luke. Vader is walking towards Rey

Actually reveals what we don't see in TFA

You hear Vader breathing and she runs but we never saw why until this comic haha

Vader walking towards Rey makes her run

Sees Vader walking towards her, later in the vision his grand son does the same lol.

Was probably meant to be a connect for the audience linking ren to Vader


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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Kessel on Sat 10 Sep - 1:57

@Gemini wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I have long thought that the "killing Salad Bowl guy" moment in Rey's vision was a past event bleeding into what could be future on Ahch-To. There was such a furore when it seemed that Kylo wasn't actually saving Rey from anyone that it got lost in the confusion. Pablo said that Kylo and the Knights of Ren have slaughtered their way through villages. It doesn't mean that there's no significance to the Clan Leader event but it probably isn't what many have interpreted it as so far.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I thought this a while ago with the saber vision theory.

Could possibly be Looking for relics, no doubt he found one, seems to get a vision of Rey but it was hidden from frame in tfa so who knows what is going on in the final version of the moivie lol
@Gemini

That's interesting...maybe that scene is when Kylo first saw a vision of Rey? There were the old call sheets with that backstory that Salad Bowl and his clan had Anakin's lightsaber and Kylo and the KOR fought and took it from them, and then Maz stole it from Kylo and the KOR. Perhaps that's the first time Kylo obtained Anakin's lightsaber and had some kind of vision?

Otherwise, I'm confused how Salad Bowl fits into the Force back if the the old call sheet story changed. Why show Kylo killing him? scratch


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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 1:59

Kessel89 wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I have long thought that the "killing Salad Bowl guy" moment in Rey's vision was a past event bleeding into what could be future on Ahch-To. There was such a furore when it seemed that Kylo wasn't actually saving Rey from anyone that it got lost in the confusion. Pablo said that Kylo and the Knights of Ren have slaughtered their way through villages. It doesn't mean that there's no significance to the Clan Leader event but it probably isn't what many have interpreted it as so far.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I thought this a while ago with the saber vision theory.

Could possibly be Looking for relics, no doubt he found one, seems to get a vision of Rey but it was hidden from frame in tfa so who knows what is going on in the final version of the moivie lol
@Gemini

That's interesting...maybe that scene is when Kylo first saw a vision of Rey? There were the old call sheets with that backstory that Salad Bowl and his clan had Anakin's lightsaber and Kylo and the KOR fought and took it from them, and then Maz stole it from Kylo and the KOR. Perhaps that's the first time Kylo obtained Anakin's lightsaber and had some kind of vision?

Otherwise, I'm confused how Salad Bowl fits into the Force back if the the old call sheet story changed. Why show Kylo killing him?
@Kessel89 could be but the saber he holds after stabbing him does not look like anakins at all. (To me anyway lol) looks like Luke's or obi wan's

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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Kessel on Sat 10 Sep - 2:13

@Gemini wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I have long thought that the "killing Salad Bowl guy" moment in Rey's vision was a past event bleeding into what could be future on Ahch-To. There was such a furore when it seemed that Kylo wasn't actually saving Rey from anyone that it got lost in the confusion. Pablo said that Kylo and the Knights of Ren have slaughtered their way through villages. It doesn't mean that there's no significance to the Clan Leader event but it probably isn't what many have interpreted it as so far.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I thought this a while ago with the saber vision theory.

Could possibly be Looking for relics, no doubt he found one, seems to get a vision of Rey but it was hidden from frame in tfa so who knows what is going on in the final version of the moivie lol
@Gemini

That's interesting...maybe that scene is when Kylo first saw a vision of Rey? There were the old call sheets with that backstory that Salad Bowl and his clan had Anakin's lightsaber and Kylo and the KOR fought and took it from them, and then Maz stole it from Kylo and the KOR. Perhaps that's the first time Kylo obtained Anakin's lightsaber and had some kind of vision?

Otherwise, I'm confused how Salad Bowl fits into the Force back if the the old call sheet story changed. Why show Kylo killing him?
@Kessel89 could be but the saber he holds does not look like anakins at all.
@Gemini

You mean the trailer scenes with Kylo and the KOR where Kylo looks like he may be holding what is either Luke or Obi-Wan's lightsaber hilt? Those images are curious.... I don't know what to make of them.

While I don't currently believe in the Rey Kenobi theory (although I'm totally open to it), it could be an interesting way to tie in Rey Kenobi - if Kylo got a parallel vision of Rey from Obi-Wan's lightsaber (if they can come up with a good way to make that lightsaber's reappearance feasible).
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 2:26



Yep lots of bodies

You can see them. Not rocks. I knew they weren't. I really think it's a past moment not the future but it seeps in.

Can't be Ach tu surely? Because no one is there but Luke?

I count about just as many as was in that comic strip

There's one behind Rey too when she's backing away
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 2:39

The comic also shows that it seems to be force ghosts of yoda and obi wan talking to her, showing her the vision, in the shadows, pulling the strings.

The only one missing from the original 3 here is anakins ghost, I'm betting he was busy talking to ren through that saber he held. Or will make a show later.

Vader meanwhile (not a force ghost because sith attach to material world according to Pablo) is connected to vaders helmet giving ren  corrupt visions (show me again grandfather the power of the dark side)

Split Vader anakin ghost concept has evolved into an actual split in the final thing?

All makes sense in my crazy brain lol.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 10 Sep - 5:15

I'm sorry, despite the comic I'm still adamant that there's only one body - Salad Bowl's - in the film version. I've looked at the DVD as closely as I can.

Otherwise why have bodies that look like bodies at first sight but on closer inspection look exactly like Ahch-To terrain - with the tree (!), rain and all? (Plus the left = past, right = future thing which seemed logical enough.) What would be the purpose of fooling people with bodies that most people saw as bodies but when you see the Ahch-To landscape you go "a-ha!" except that's misdirection of misdirection as well because it turns out to be bodies after all...? I don't get it.

Perhaps it's as @Gemini says that the past and the future are bleeding into each other, with bodies and rocks morphing into each other within one scene, but how on earth can they explain something like that in simple terms? In that case I fail to see how the vision would have any real meaning at all. If it's meant to show Kylo having a vision of Rey from another lightsaber, why not call any attention to the other lightsaber at all? Instead, all signs of the other lightsaber were erased from the vision.

Originally there were meant to be scattered bodies in some version of the scene, because they were meant to be the dead students. That would have had a clear narrative meaning, obviously.

I don't know. That rain sequence was set up to be significant in some way, so I'd be disappointed if Salad Bowl is just some dead guy from the past we never meet again, combined with the rainy landscape we actually do get to see. Dreams have no logic but in storytelling one kind of expects sequences like this to be more than a mish-mash of "dream logic".
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Sylvia Snow on Sat 10 Sep - 6:38

There is the possibility that the Salad Bowl scene was from the past where Kylo first got his hand on Obi Wan's saber, where he saw Rey. He could have seen Rey with her mask on, holding the blue saber in the forest, similar to what Rey saw in her vision and right at that moment, Kylo somehow knew that this girl he saw in the vision will be his counterpart, the light, etc. That why he's so intriguing to meet her, face to face and then try to tempt her to the Dark Side instead.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 10 Sep - 7:32

@Sylvia Snow wrote:There is the possibility that the Salad Bowl scene was from the past where Kylo first got his hand on Obi Wan's saber, where he saw Rey. He could have seen Rey with her mask on, holding the blue saber in the forest, similar to what Rey saw in her vision and right at that moment, Kylo somehow knew that this girl he saw in the vision will be his counterpart, the light, etc. That why he's so intriguing to meet her, face to face and then try to tempt her to the Dark Side instead.
@Sylvia Snow

That's certainly possible, and I've thought it possible all along that Kylo has had visions of Rey (whether lightsaber-related or not). But if that idea was the focus of the rain scene, why wasn't the lightsaber in Kylo's hand included in the film at all?

And if the rain scene was in the past, why does it look like Ahch-To from the spoilers we now know (Kylo definitely coming to Ahch-To, rainstorm and rocky terrain, the tree)?

Past and future bleeding into each other as Gemini suggested might sort of make sense, but (a) I still think that would be hard to explain in a way that wouldn't confuse the majority of the audience like: "wait... so that scene looks like it was from the future but there was no Salad Bowl after all? what did I miss?", and (b) all the other scenes seem quite clear and distinct, it's just the context-less sequence of them that makes the vision so trippy - Cloud City is clearly referencing the past, SKB is clearly referencing SKB, Luke & R2 are clearly referencing some specific scene (likely the massacre), and Rey's abandonment is clear enough. I personally would find it a bit odd if everything else in the vision were distinct but then that one pivotal rain scene were a mix of the past and the future that has no clear reference point at all.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Sylvia Snow on Sat 10 Sep - 7:54

@Darth Dingbat

Well, I have this idea of mine that maybe the Salad Bowl, bodies, Kylo and the KOR, all of them actually happened in a different location but it was super important like the event that started the whole thing and when Rey touch the saber, the Force connected to Kylo, put him, plus that event into the rain scene. Kylo could have been meditation or minding his own busses when suddenly he found himself revisiting the Salad Bowl incident but now in a different place and when he looks up he saw Rey. Because if the rain scene is on Ach-To, I think that scene or place is where somethings big may happens. And it could be a way of the Force to tell Rey that what ever will happen on that rainy night would ties in with Kylo and as for Kylo, it was a sigh to show that his path will crossed with her, that the girl he looking for is finally here.
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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Gemini on Sat 10 Sep - 10:57

@Darth Dingbat I can see the bodies though in TFA version, those gif sharpen it up a great deal, I can see cloaks, legs, helmets, arms, they are everywhere, even behind rey when it cuts to him walking towards her. The novel calls it a battlefield  in the day time and a fight going on between kylo and someone and then everything suddenly turns to night time, and rain which would indicate a future event, bleeding into the past/vice versa.  Bodies, KOR and ren all remain from previous scene? They removed the day time part in TFA. I think they may be remnants from a past scene but the tree, the rain, the darkness is foreshadowing the future meeting. The KOR will also later be there. This is JJ Abrams, I just doubt what we are seeing is what we are going to get in the future scene on Ach to. He's never as simple as that. Even when made to simplify things it still is not accurate to reality. They have said this.

May morph into rocks though good point. But then I can still see the one behind Rey well after ren seems to look at her.

Thats definately not a rock behind Rey, that's a dead body imo, not salad bowl, it's facing the wrong way. There may even be another to the right of the frame too.



I do think there are bodies scattered amongt terrain to make it look like much more than there are. But the ones drawn in the comic, I can see them all in that gif.


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Re: Rey's Vision

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 10 Sep - 11:40

You ll do it alone.

Do what?
Facing Ren in the woods or something else in the connection to the end game of the trilogy?

As for Salad Bowl - I really do not know. Expect the strong feeling that of all things in TFA - that person seems totally out of place.

I am sure in only one thing - that R2/Luke scene has nothing to do with Mr. Salad. It looks definitely like different place.
And Salad does not have a look of somebody I can imagine as being a padawan.

EDIT: and yes, too many bodies for Anch-To as well: unless there are things we do not know about Anch-To at this point.


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