A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

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A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 31 Jul - 8:21

Just thought it might be a good idea to have a thread to discuss various Dark Side or Imperial lineage theories - anything from Rey Palpatine to Rey with Nightsister blood, or from Rey Rax to Rey Hux.

I hereby declare that no speculation is too crazy for this thread. Wink
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by MindAndMagic on Sun 31 Jul - 8:30

FINALLY!!! Twisted Evil

I've been a fan of dark side origins since day 1. It would create an emotional conflict and has an amazing narrative potential. I do think whatever Rey's origins are, they need to add something to the overall story, the most compelling option by far IMO is if they present some kind of obstacle, which will challenge everything she believes in. It would also be a fascinating parallel to Kylo and kind of ironic if true. Rey has already displayed dark side capacities, this conflict/struggle will definitely add to the complexity of her character in the future. This possibility also sends a powerful message: personal choices show who you really are. Even if you come from the dark, it doesn't have to rule your destiny, you can still choose the light. And, of course, I always like the villains, the Emperor is one of my favourite characters, one of the highlights of the PT (and the OT). There are many other less well-known, but equally interesting options. I'm also very keen on learning more about the nature/origins of the dark side as a whole. A story like this can be really cool if done well!

EDIT: I agree it's better to elaborate on already established plot lines instead of introducing new ones, which is why it seems very likely that Rey's background has something to do with the mysteries surrounding the island and/or Snoke.


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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by IoJovi on Sun 31 Jul - 9:02

Love this topic - thanks for posting it! I'm all for Rey Palpatine. He's one of my all time favorite villains, and while the prequels certainly weren't perfect, Ian McDermaid's performance was one I sincerely enjoyed.

I haven't finished Life Debt yet, but it seems Palpatine was leading excavations of dark side relics on Jakku. While this doesn't provide solid evidence he's a relation to Rey, the planet is obviously associated with the Darkside in some way. I don't think it's a coincidence that Rey was dropped there.

And let's not forget the mural in his office of a woman who looks shockingly similar to Rey on his wall. I noticed that during my last viewing of RotS and I got super excited...

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Blackcanary on Sun 31 Jul - 10:46

@IoJovi wrote:Love this topic - thanks for posting it! I'm all for Rey Palpatine. He's one of my all time favorite villains, and while the prequels certainly weren't perfect, Ian McDermaid's performance was one I sincerely enjoyed.

I haven't finished Life Debt yet, but it seems Palpatine was leading excavations of dark side relics on Jakku. While this doesn't provide solid evidence he's a relation to Rey, the planet is obviously associated with the Darkside in some way. I don't think it's a coincidence that Rey was dropped there.

And let's not forget the mural in his office of a woman who looks shockingly similar to Rey on his wall. I noticed that during my last viewing of RotS and I got super excited...
@IoJovi

I was interested in 'Life debt' telling us that Jakku used to be a verdant, lush land a long time ago: perhaps there was a cataclysmic event (like with Malachor) that killed all life there, or maybe the dark relics Palpatine seeks have slowly 'poisoned' the place.

Likewise, it seems no coincidence that our new buddy Gallius Rax also has his origins in Jakku...

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 31 Jul - 11:51

I think this is a likely outcome. Daisy once talked about how Rey was a character who would expand the galaxy and the story, and IMO that strongly hints that she's something we've never seen before, something bigger than Skywalker, Kenobi, Solo, Palpatine, etc. Rey is either one of two things to me (or both): ancient and/or from dark side origins.

Going full random speculation here, but perhaps just as there were the first Jedi, there were also the first Sith, and Rey what is left of one of those two bloodlines. This is the kind of thing they could go into on Ahch-To, because the place is old and in ruins, and whatever their tree is supposed to be, it's dead. Something bad probably happened there, maybe an ancient war, maybe something else entirely. Or maybe nothing. I have no idea, but IMO Rey has something to do with either Ahch-To or Snoke.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Jakku on Sun 31 Jul - 12:27

If Rey is descended from the original Force users, before Jedi or Sith, then she's likely to be of huge importance - a reservoir of raw, pure power. Perhaps Light / Dark is irrelevant to her. She might be like stem cells. That would be exciting.

Perhaps that's the real treasure on Jakku - Force ancients. With Rey the last survivor, and a prize to both sides.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by snufkin on Sun 31 Jul - 12:48

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Rey has something to do with either Ahch-To or Snoke.
@FrolickingFizzgig

That's kind of been my suspicion about how she ended up on Jakku, unfinished business that her parents were involved in. Possibly also the eventual conflict that's set up, Snoke's gonna want to get his claws on her for that reason. Wouldn't be surprised if he already has an idea of who she is.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 31 Jul - 13:25

@Jakku wrote:If Rey is descended from the original Force users, before Jedi or Sith, then she's likely to be of huge importance - a reservoir of raw, pure power. Perhaps Light / Dark is irrelevant to her. She might be like stem cells. That would be exciting.

Perhaps that's the real treasure on Jakku - Force ancients. With Rey the last survivor, and a prize to both sides.
@Jakku
This would be AWESOME. Like really awesome. It would totally expend the galaxy and story in ways we've never seen before in SW canon. They are going to have to connect this all together in some way, which is one of the reasons I'm skeptical on the Obi-Wan granddaughter theory. Rather than elaborating on already established characters or plot-points like Ahch-To, the first Jedi, Snoke, etc. it just adds more characters into the story. I would imagine Rey's backstory (whatever it is) would need to connect plot-points together, not veer off in a totally different direction than what has already been introduced.

One thing I've thought about is the idea that Luke and Ben were looking for Rey (or the descendant of something ancient) for some reason, which would explain the "it is you" line from the film. Rey herself (or her origin story) could be considered a Jedi relic or piece of Jedi history, or perhaps a piece of dark side history instead. We know that Luke and Ben were off scouring the galaxy.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Kessel on Sun 31 Jul - 14:18

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Jakku wrote:If Rey is descended from the original Force users, before Jedi or Sith, then she's likely to be of huge importance - a reservoir of raw, pure power.  Perhaps Light / Dark is irrelevant to her.   She might be like stem cells. That would be exciting.

Perhaps that's the real treasure on Jakku - Force ancients.  With Rey the last survivor, and a prize to both sides.
@Jakku
This would be AWESOME. Like really awesome. It would totally expend the galaxy and story in ways we've never seen before in SW canon. They are going to have to connect this all together in some way, which is one of the reasons I'm skeptical on the Obi-Wan granddaughter theory. Rather than elaborating on already established characters or plot-points like Ahch-To, the first Jedi, Snoke, etc. it just adds more characters into the story. I would imagine Rey's backstory (whatever it is) would need to connect plot-points together, not veer off in a totally different direction than what has already been introduced.

One thing I've thought about is the idea that Luke and Ben were looking for Rey (or the descendant of something ancient) for some reason, which would explain the "it is you" line from the film. Rey herself (or her origin story) could be considered a Jedi relic or piece of Jedi history, or perhaps a piece of dark side history instead. We know that Luke and Ben were off scouring the galaxy.

@FrolickingFizzgig and @Jakku

I agree with you guys that Rey's backstory will be tied somehow to Snoke, Jakku, the ancient Force and whatever Luke and Ben were up to before Ben joined Snoke. Rey having an original connection to the Force other than through the Skywalkers expands the story in a way I'm sure  Disney wants for future stories. Also, the movies never explored the history of the Force before and I think it's pretty clear we're going to get some kind of history lesson in the ST. It makes sense that Rey's story will tie into that.

It also fits in in what we've heard from Colin Treverrow about Rey's origin:

"I’ve seen all of the theories… What I do know is that we’re going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying, because Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens but in the entire galaxy, and she deserves it. So we’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was—it’s something that happened a long time ago [in a galaxy] far, far away, we’re just telling you what happened.”

Rey's story is going to broaden our knowledge and concept of the Force, not narrow it. Her being a Skywalker doesn't broaden anything, it constricts the story and makes it duplicative and predictable. We already have a Skywalker in Kylo and he represents that important lineage (which is why it's important he finds his way and balance in the Force), but the Skywalkers should not be the only important characters when it comes to the Force.


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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by CienaRee on Sun 31 Jul - 14:21

Yesteday I stumbled upon a theory about Rey being Galius Rax's daughter(if Rax and Snoke are two different people) or at least in some way connected to it whcih was something I was also speculating on.They talked about why Rey could have been left on Jakku- one of the speculations being that Rax could have left her there because he belived it was her birth right to guide whatever it was on Jakku like he did.
One interesting theory they mentioned was that Snoke was the thing that Rax was guding on jakku and it was Rey who awakened Snoke.I think it's a really cool theory and it would another dimension to Rey and Kylo's relationship.
Here's the whole video it's about 48 min long but you can skip the end because they started taling about Reywalker and how the FO kidnapped Rey from Luke. Rolling Eyes
None the less their speculations were interesting to listen to:


Personally the things similarity I noticed were that:
They're both orphans on Jakku.
Both resists powerful FS-Palpatine and Kylo
Call thesmelves just a boy and just a scavenger respecively yet they end up being more than they appear
Both refer to them as monsters yet can't help but be fascinated by them
In one of his POv chapters Rax thinks about how having a garden bring him solace since he comes from a dead place(Jakku)and Rey seems to also have some sort of a garden in TFA and in her Guide she mentions that she gathers desert flowers because they help her remidn herself that there's beauty on a place like Jakku

I mean this could be a crack theory because it's possible Rax dies in the next novel but it's funny speculating about what darksider/darksiders could be Rey's parent/parents. Very Happy


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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 31 Jul - 14:28

I tend to see the future development of the story like this:



As you can see, Rey's story (the blue arrow) has to connect to the main narrative conflict (the black arrow). Everything is already connected except Rey. The First Order is connected to Kylo which is connected to Finn which is connected to the Resistance which is connected to Leia which is connected Luke which is connected to Ahch-To. Right now Rey's only means of "connection" are purely circumstantial. She's really just a nobody scavenger with no ties to... well, anything. She just happened to meet these people on her journey to return BB-8 to the Resistance. She is now personally tied to Finn, Kylo, Leia, Luke, the Resistance, the First Order, etc. but none of it really has anything to do with her. That has to change, and the easiest way to do that would be for Rey's backstory to have something to do with that black arrow. The best options narratively involve the first Jedi or Snoke.


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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Darth Dementor on Sun 31 Jul - 16:37

@IoJovi wrote:Love this topic - thanks for posting it!  I'm all for Rey Palpatine.  He's one of my all time favorite villains, and while the prequels certainly weren't perfect, Ian McDermaid's performance was one I sincerely enjoyed.  

I haven't finished Life Debt yet, but it seems Palpatine was leading excavations of dark side relics on Jakku.  While this doesn't provide solid evidence he's a relation to Rey, the planet is obviously associated with the Darkside in some way.  I don't think it's a coincidence that Rey was dropped there.

And let's not forget the mural in his office of a woman who looks shockingly similar to Rey on his wall.  I noticed that during my last viewing of RotS and I got super excited...
@IoJovi

I wouldn't object to Rey Palaptine.  It would fit the Ring Composition nicely; a Palpatine turned a Skywalker to the dark then two generations later a Palpatine brings a Skywalker back to the light.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by IoJovi on Sun 31 Jul - 16:40

@Darth Dementor wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:Love this topic - thanks for posting it!  I'm all for Rey Palpatine.  He's one of my all time favorite villains, and while the prequels certainly weren't perfect, Ian McDermaid's performance was one I sincerely enjoyed.  

I haven't finished Life Debt yet, but it seems Palpatine was leading excavations of dark side relics on Jakku.  While this doesn't provide solid evidence he's a relation to Rey, the planet is obviously associated with the Darkside in some way.  I don't think it's a coincidence that Rey was dropped there.

And let's not forget the mural in his office of a woman who looks shockingly similar to Rey on his wall.  I noticed that during my last viewing of RotS and I got super excited...
@IoJovi

I wouldn't object to Rey Palaptine.  It would fit the Ring Composition nicely; a Palpatine turned a Skywalker to the dark then two generations later a Palpatine brings a Skywalker back to the light.
@Darth Dementor

cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers


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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Saracene on Mon 1 Aug - 3:22

Dark side origin for Rey would be very interesting, from story and character standpoint. It would be a neat way of injecting some darkness into the character without her actually going dark (which I don't think will happen).
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by IoJovi on Mon 1 Aug - 9:00

@Panki yes that's the one!!! Thank you for posting that info - you are a true wealth of knowledge here! Smile

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Jakku on Mon 1 Aug - 9:25

Hmm, maybe Kylo's vision of her was as a darksider, in sexy darkside clothes? Perhaps he didn't recognise her when she turned up all pale-coloured and innocent? And perhaps that's why he offered to teach her - he thinks her destiny is to join him on the dark side?
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Macha Ren on Mon 1 Aug - 13:40

I really love the continued idea of reverse symmetry for Rey and Kylo.

He was born from parents who have embraced the light, though he is born equal parts dark and light. He follows a dark path.

She is born from parents with who have embraced the light, though she is born equal parts dark and light. She follows a light path.

They are the embodiment of balance. Together they meet in the grey middle.

That reveal could be a very painful thing for her. How do you resolve that your parents were possibly evil yet she saw them as loving and caring enough that they would one day return for her.

What I would love is for both them to realize you don't have to reject have of whom they are and yet can remain good people. Kylo is obviously struggling with the idea of embracing both sides of himself (and failing miserably.) Rey may have that same struggle.

But I think they could be a good check and balance for the other. Kylo knows what it feels like to fail and fall completely and she knows what it is like to be tempted to descend into darkness but have the strength to pull back to the light.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 1 Aug - 16:14

I don't really have a horse in the race, personally, as to whether Rey is a Kenobi descendant or has dark origins (at this point, I've completely eliminated her backstory not being of significance--even if her parents are people we haven't "met" yet).

I love Obi-Wan as a character, and I think that they could do something really nice with a Kenobi managing to successfully guide a Skywalker away from the dark this time around.

BUT as pretty much everyone else on this thread is saying, I don't believe it's a coincidence at all that some of the new canon books, etc, are focusing on Jakku so much as a source of dark side lore. If Rey has dark origins, I do really love the way that would set her up to being the other side of the coin with Kylo. And I think that it's very likely that Snoke had something to do with Rey ending up the way that she did--assuming that Rey and Kylo go after Snoke together at the end of IX, there has to be some personal motivation for Rey there beyond protecting/helping Kylo.

Also, given the hints that we don't find out Rey's full origins until IX (per Trevorrow's interview), if there's a tie-in with Snoke, it would make more sense from a plot structure to have that reveal in IX. In VIII, I suspect that we'll be hearing about Ben Solo's fall, and unless Luke or Kylo know exactly who Rey is and what happened to her parents, it doesn't sound like we're going to be leaving Ahch-To long enough to really get Rey the answers there. (Although I suspect that Kylo has seen Rey in a vision before, that doesn't necessarily tell him who she is.) So, if as rumored, Rey ends up in Snoke's hands at the end of VIII, it would make sense for the big origin reveal to possibly come directly from Snoke in IX.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by panki on Mon 1 Aug - 19:28

@Darth Dementor wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:Love this topic - thanks for posting it!  I'm all for Rey Palpatine.  He's one of my all time favorite villains, and while the prequels certainly weren't perfect, Ian McDermaid's performance was one I sincerely enjoyed.  

I haven't finished Life Debt yet, but it seems Palpatine was leading excavations of dark side relics on Jakku.  While this doesn't provide solid evidence he's a relation to Rey, the planet is obviously associated with the Darkside in some way.  I don't think it's a coincidence that Rey was dropped there.

And let's not forget the mural in his office of a woman who looks shockingly similar to Rey on his wall.  I noticed that during my last viewing of RotS and I got super excited...
@IoJovi

I wouldn't object to Rey Palaptine.  It would fit the Ring Composition nicely; a Palpatine turned a Skywalker to the dark then two generations later a Palpatine brings a Skywalker back to the light.
@Darth Dementor

It would be a really interesting twist if the two Sith lords (Palpatine and Vader) who brought the galaxy to heel had grandchildren (Rey and Kylo) who save the same galaxy....there is a line in Life Debt that can make one question of Palpatine had any living relatives...

No clear chain of succession was evident. Palpatine had no family of which to speak, at least as far as anyone knew. Vader didn’t have family, either (and for all Sinjir knows, wasn’t even human anymore).

We know Vader had family....so what if Palpatine had family nobody knew about....not necessarily a child but even a niece/grand-niece?

And speaking of things that rhyme... this is definitely a big one:




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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by IoJovi on Mon 1 Aug - 20:43

@Panki cheers

That's a great one. Palpatine lineage wouldn't make it difficult to explain why she was left on Jakku. If that really is the case, I'm sure there would be thousands who would want her dead if they knew of her existance. It might explain that whoever did so (parents or otherwise) did it for Rey's protection.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Mana on Mon 1 Aug - 20:50

I think Rey was born on Jakku, and her parents left the planet without her and they might be out there in the galaxy somewhere and were never planning on coming back. Maybe 'dark' origins may just mean that they were cruel people...not necessarily dark side related.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 1 Aug - 21:02

@IoJovi wrote:@Panki cheers

That's a great one. Palpatine lineage wouldn't make it difficult to explain why she was left on Jakku. If that really is the case, I'm sure there would be thousands who would want her dead if they knew of her existance. It might explain that whoever did so (parents or otherwise) did it for Rey's protection.
@IoJovi

And it makes me wonder what, if any tie in, there is between Rey and whatever Palpatine was looking for on Jakku.

I also wonder if the Church of the Force was there on Jakku trying to ensure that whatever that thing is/was, it either wasn't found or wasn't removed by the FO.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by IoJovi on Mon 1 Aug - 21:28

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:@Panki cheers

That's a great one. Palpatine lineage wouldn't make it difficult to explain why she was left on Jakku. If that really is the case, I'm sure there would be thousands who would want her dead if they knew of her existance. It might explain that whoever did so (parents or otherwise) did it for Rey's protection.
@IoJovi

And it makes me wonder what, if any tie in, there is between Rey and whatever Palpatine was looking for on Jakku.

I also wonder if the Church of the Force was there on Jakku trying to ensure that whatever that thing is/was, it either wasn't found or wasn't removed by the FO.
@ISeeAnIsland

I'm really looking forward to the Chuck Wendig book that comes out in January detailing the Battle of Jakku. I'm sure it'll give us more questions than answers, but who knows...

I just thought of something. Holy crap - I just figured out that Rax was the one who stole aboard Palpatine's ship in the beginning of Life Debt. This happened on Jakku, and likely he grew up and was possibly born there. Not sure exactly how that's linked to Rey but I'm telling ya, Darkside lineage for her is looking more and more likely. Why was she dropped off on Jakku of all places?

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 1 Aug - 21:43

@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:@Panki cheers

That's a great one. Palpatine lineage wouldn't make it difficult to explain why she was left on Jakku. If that really is the case, I'm sure there would be thousands who would want her dead if they knew of her existance. It might explain that whoever did so (parents or otherwise) did it for Rey's protection.
@IoJovi

And it makes me wonder what, if any tie in, there is between Rey and whatever Palpatine was looking for on Jakku.

I also wonder if the Church of the Force was there on Jakku trying to ensure that whatever that thing is/was, it either wasn't found or wasn't removed by the FO.
@ISeeAnIsland

I'm really looking forward to the Chuck Wendig book that comes out in January detailing the Battle of Jakku. I'm sure it'll give us more questions than answers, but who knows...

I just thought of something. Holy crap - I just figured out that Rax was the one who stole aboard Palpatine's ship in the beginning of Life Debt. This happened on Jakku, and likely he grew up and was possibly born there. Not sure exactly how that's linked to Rey but I'm telling ya, Darkside lineage for her is looking more and more likely. Why was she dropped off on Jakku of all places?
@IoJovi

I'm only halfway through Life Debt, but the first half has swayed me back into the dark origins camp (and I know, I know, I change Rey Lineage camps pretty regularly). It can't be a coincidence that Rey was on Jakku and that there's all of that weird/dark stuff there. Someone wanted her there deliberately, and they wanted to keep her there by telling her that she needed to wait for her parents to return.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by IoJovi on Mon 1 Aug - 21:54

Yep, I'm exactly at the half way point, and lo and behold it was just confirmed Rax was indeed that boy on Jakku in the beginning of the book. I pounded through Bloodlines in three days, but I'm taking more time with this one, reading maybe 30 pages a day.

I'm like you too. I go back and forth a lot on Rey's origins.
I was never what you would call a Kenobi enthusiast, but for a long time I saw it as likely, even though I preferred dark origins for her. All this talk about Jakku being the center of Darkside activity is getting me excited all over again.

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