A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by panki on Tue 2 Aug - 6:56

The name Rax means 'to stretch out one's hand'....since SW character's names are meaningful, Michelangelo's The Creation of Adam came to my mind:



Could Rax have some role to play in Rey's past? Maybe they are related...or even if he is not her parent, maybe she is part of a genetic program he supervised? So either her father or creator? Jakku was rumored to have a secret imperial facility and the Empire was into cloning and similar activities.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 3 Aug - 22:44

Another book to read? Why are they doing that to us? I had not realized Han and Chewie were also in the book. Jakku was once a green place o_O. Fine, I'll read it.

I have nothing intelligent to say on the dark lineage today except that I am on board. Whatever opens up the universe and makes Rey more complex is good to me. I love the idea of Rey being the ultimate relic of a lost past that we will get to discover with her. I just had a flash of the 5th element saying that - don't ask. I think even if her lineage is not dark but "only" ancient, it would be quite a weight on her shoulders bringing more gravity to the story. Even though she embraced the Force to kick Kylo's a**, I think she still thinks of herself as a scavenger. With a mission, but a scavenger nonetheless.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by IoJovi on Thu 4 Aug - 0:11

@SanghaRen wrote:Another book to read? Why are they doing that to us? I had not realized Han and Chewie were also in the book. Jakku was once a green place o_O. Fine, I'll read it.

I have nothing intelligent to say on the dark lineage today except that I am on board. Whatever opens up the universe and makes Rey more complex is good to me. I love the idea of Rey being the ultimate relic of a lost past that we will get to discover with her. I just had a flash of the 5th element saying that - don't ask. I think even if her lineage is not dark but "only" ancient, it would be quite a weight on her shoulders bringing more gravity to the story. Even though she embraced the Force to kick Kylo's a**, I think she still thinks of herself as a scavenger. With a mission, but a scavenger nonetheless.
@SanghaRen

That's exactly what Rey is though, and it's not going to change. She finds broken things that everyone else thinks is damaged beyond repair, puts them back together and gives them purpose again. She'll do the same with Ben Solo.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by panki on Wed 10 Aug - 10:33

I notice that a couple of the canon novels mention opera music...and I feel they are a clue to Rey's origins...

The first is from Lost Stars:

In Core Worlds Classical Culture: “Who here can tell me which opera the composer Igern is best known for?”
Ciena’s hand shot up, and when the professor nodded at her, she answered, “Chalice and Altar.
“Very good, Cadet Ree. And can you tell me the themes for which this opera is famed?”
Uh-oh. She could hum several melodies from Chalice and Altar, but she didn’t enjoy opera music. That made it difficult for her to connect music to plot.
After only a moment’s pause, the professor turned away. “Memorizing by rote, Cadet Ree? Unfortunate. Does anyone else know?”
The sound of Thane’s voice from behind her pierced her like a knife between the shoulder blades. He said, “The opera deals with the morality of self-sacrifice and the repression of desire.


The second is from Aftermath- Life Debt:

The first piece he ever heard as a boy plays in his chambers now: The Cantata of Cora Vessora, an Old Republic opera of a dark witch on an unnamed world who refused to become Jedi—but neither would she join the Sith. It is a tale of birth, death, and all the glories found between those poles: love, passion, war, and above all else revenge. Revenge against the Sith who took her loved ones. Revenge against the Jedi for standing idly by and refusing to protect her because she would not join their ranks. Revenge against the galaxy for being as imperfect and impure as she had feared. The tale itself was something he didn’t learn until much later. The story mattered, of course.

Both the cantata and opera seem to be about similar themes (repression of desire is something encouraged by jedi and chalices and altars are also sometimes associated with witches)... it would be really interesting if the cantata was a scene from the same opera. Cora is another name for Persephone and Vessora means broom, establishing her as a witch but bringing in an element of abduction followed by romance. The jedi wanted to recruit her and she refused, maybe because being a jedi involved repression of desire. The sith wanted her to join them. She refused them as well so they took her loved ones. The jedi refused to help her because she didn't join them (shows the jedi aren't so nice after all). Then she took revenge on the entire galaxy and that might have something to do with Jakku and maybe even why Jakku is now a desert instead of a lush green planet. (maybe she created and used some sort of super weapon that made Jakku a force vacuum?) Confus

The recent comics/books and even Rey's survival guide talk about different types of force worshipers...many of whom await some form of a savior....like the egg worshipers in the Poe Dameron comic or the hermits waiting for the Eremite on Jakku in Aftermath-Life Debt.

Could Rey be a descendant of this ancient witch who has returned to restore balance to the galaxy?




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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Rogue Rey on Tue 29 Nov - 7:30

Not sure where to drop this thought that I had while eating my breakfast!!

But years after Harry Potter hit the world I'm finally getting into it!!!

Anyway I know some people are very adamant that Rey is a Skywalker or a Solo or a Kenobi or a Palpatine (which I think would be great in terms of Palpatine helped Anakin to the Dark Side and it would be cool if his descendant helped guide Anakin's grandson back to the Light). Sorry I transgress. Now I'm only half way through the first HP book but I have seen the last two films and it's quite clear that Harmonie is a key character despite the fact that she is a Muggle (so not special in terms of her birth) unkike Harry Potter himself.

So I'm not against the idea of Rey being a no-body by birth because we already have the legacy child in Kylo/Ben (despite a lot of the wider audience seemingly forgetting that because his name isn't SKYWALKER - Leia suffers from the same problem).

I mean if she's related to anyone I want it to be Obi-wan but more Palpatine only for my previously stated reason.

Sorry for the probably irrelevant ramble I'm rushing because I've got to get to work!!! Very Happy Very Happy


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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by panki on Tue 29 Nov - 7:42

Well, Rey Palpatine would also be quite interesting.....Catalyst brought in the concept that Coruscant women get others to carry their children for them...so Sly Moore (who appears in Catalyst) and Palpatine could have had a child together and had a surrogate carry him/her in secret......so Rey could turn out to be Palpatine's granddaughter.

I'm okay with Rey Random...while her parents could be unknowns, I hope they are affiliated to some group......Nightsister, Mandalorian, smugglers, bounty hunters, church of the force, some dark side cult etc....Ben Solo/Kylo represents the legacy of jedi and sith (hence a lot of old characters) as well as two royal houses (Naboo and Alderaan).... Poe represents rebels like Wedge Antilles, Mon Mothma, Dodona etc.... we don't have other groups represented enough in this generation so I hope they correct it in the case of Rey and Finn.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by SanghaRen on Tue 29 Nov - 10:54

@panki

Thank you for the long and interesting explanation on nightsisters. I checked stuff mainly on the Star Wars website and Wookipedia and the witch grey-skinned image is what prevails there and I must admit it's something I could see in books, comics or shows but less in movies. However, as you mentioned there are other aspects to it which could indeed make it interesting to include in the movies. Do you recommend any specific material to know more about nightsisters? There is no way I am reading 5 books or watch the whole TCW. So anything that according to you is the must-see or must-read to understand nightsisters?

@Rogue Rey

Rey Palpatine does have some appeal to me too. Mainly because it would be very upsettting to Rey and her dynamic with Kylo would then change dramatically. But not only to Kylo. Imagine how Luke, Leia and others would react to that - Bloodline gave a good idea on how people could react. We would probably end up with a Rogue Rey Smile At the same time I agree with Panki that it would be nice if Rey would represent a new group that we haven't seen so far in movies. That's why I kind of like Rey Prana although we have no idea if King Prana is important and if he is linked to Rey at all. It's fun to imagine.

I am more excited to see new characters than seeing other "old" characters raise from their tombs, so to speak. Possibly evil new characters that I can hate on with the heat of thousand suns. Unless Snoke takes that role in VIII but it's hard to imagine right now. I mean I do hate Snoke but he's so distant. I need an active character to hate on. Hux is annyoing and I do want to punch him in the face, but we need an evil one or a whole evil group in the Force plot. And my wish is that Rey is linked to that evil someone or evil group somehow. Surviving in harsh conditions is one thing, but having a choice between evil and good when you have some power is on a whole other level Very Happy
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by SanghaRen on Tue 29 Nov - 20:00

@Rogue Rey

I hope LF has noticed that and that they will rectify this. Maybe in the teaser. Have Luke say to a determined looking Kylo on the island "You were our family's only hope, the last Skywalker" Of course, some would still think we would get a "there's another one" as a big twist, but it would at least get the GA to realize or remember that Kylo is a Skywalker. The others who hate his guts will probably never change their minds and say that he is not. Plus he is not a Solo because he killed his father. I wonder if he is allowed to be an Organa or if that's also out.

I never quite understood how people forgive Anakin so easily. It does not compute. In one forum I saw a poster say that it's because the story tells you that he is redeemed, then he is. So if Kylo is written as redeemed, even if it makes no sense, it's ok too. No. Why? Because I hate Kylo. It's one debate you never come out of. I gave up. If people want to see it so narrow, too bad for them. They're missing out.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Rogue Rey on Tue 29 Nov - 20:18

@SanghaRen wrote:@Rogue Rey

I hope LF has noticed that and that they will rectify this. Maybe in the teaser. Have Luke say to a determined looking Kylo on the island "You were our family's only hope, the last Skywalker" Of course, some would still think we would get a "there's another one" as a big twist, but it would at least get the GA to realize or remember that Kylo is a Skywalker. The others who hate his guts will probably never change their minds and say that he is not. Plus he is not a Solo because he killed his father. I wonder if he is allowed to be an Organa or if that's also out.

I never quite understood how people forgive Anakin so easily. It does not compute. In one forum I saw a poster say that it's because the story tells you that he is redeemed, then he is. So if Kylo is written as redeemed, even if it makes no sense, it's ok too. No. Why? Because I hate Kylo. It's one debate you never come out of. I gave up. If people want to see it so narrow, too bad for them. They're missing out.
@SanghaRen

I would like for Luke to make the whole darn thing clear - I honestly think I will scream if Rey's parentage is still not cleared up in VIII or even within the first quarter of the film!!  Yeah I think as you said even if there's a flipping arrow and the words 'LAST SKYWALKER' pointing at Kylo for the entire film some people will still be expecting the 'there's another' twist - we've been there, done that!!  Unfortunately there are many people who do hate Kylo's guts - largely to the killing his Father thing so they will never change their minds.

I don't think the anti Kylo's would ever accept Rey as anything less than a Skywalker and even if they're proven wrong and she's totally unrelated then they'll pan the film, because it didn't go their way.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 30 Nov - 14:39

@panki wrote:@Darth Dementor

Thanks Very Happy

I found a picture of a Nightsister drawn by a LF artist who wore an outfit that looked a lot like what Rey wears in Episode 7......and I also noticed how Rey's scavenger staff resembled a sith pike from the TCW concept art drawings and SWOTR.....so got inspired to photoshop them together and create dark side Rey. Very Happy

I agree with Darth Dementor - I am sure you've been told many times already, but your name is really cool -, it is inspired. Can you photoshop me to make me look like a nightsister? You don't have to change the skin color, I am so pale nowadays, it really looks like I am a Dark Sider. It just occurred to me that I could try to dress up like a nightsister for the SW Convention. I need to study the topic.

You know - just throwing this in the mix now - I really wonder why they re-introduce such a popular character as Thrawn. SW Rebels. The book coming out in April. I suppose that Rey cannot have any link with him or maybe she can, but I am not sure how believable it will look. BDT as son of Thrawn recruited by Snoke? First mission was to kill Rey's parents or to get all the force sensitive kids but the parents escaped and left Rey on Jakku? I am probably in the wrong thread for this speculation. But the parents could still be FO supporters until someone wanted to get their kid.

@Rogue Rey

There are 2 things I'd like clarified in VIII: Rey is not a Skywalker (or a Solo, but that one is just so lame and twisted, I don't think they will put any effort in clearing that one out) and Kylo is on a path to redemption. If these 2 are still in the air, I might actually drop out of fandom because another 2 years of trench warfare, no thanks, plus I think it would make for a better trilogy to focus on a strong story and strong characters than playing mystery games. It gets tiring.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by panki on Thu 1 Dec - 5:26

@SanghaRen

I'm just learning how to use photoshop (by trial and error)....I can try to photoshop your picture with a Nightsister costume but I have to warn you in advance that I'm still getting the hang of using it and could make mistakes....that being said, would you prefer a canon costume or one from legends and concept art?

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by WhatGirl on Sat 4 Mar - 18:44

If Rey has dark side origins, I can see her denying her family name when she finds out. It will be her very own moment of, "You cannot deny the truth that is your family." She must have assumed her family were decent people since she waited so long for them to come back.

Harry Potter found out that his father, despite being admired in the wizarding world, was a vicious school bully who made Severus Snape's life hell. His parents were not as good and perfect as he'd believed, and he was able to feel sympathy for Snape after years of simply hating him.

So, I think Rey's lineage will connect her to Kylo, but not in the way Rey Related fans expect. She may very well learn that her parents did something that helped shape Ben into who he is now, and at the very least she will begin to feel compassion for him.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Irina de France on Sat 4 Mar - 18:48

@WhatGirl wrote:If Rey has dark side origins, I can see her denying her family name when she finds out. It will be her very own moment of, "You cannot deny the truth that is your family." She must have assumed her family were decent people since she waited so long for them to come back.

Harry Potter found out that his father, despite being admired in the wizarding world, was a vicious school bully who made Severus Snape's life hell. His parents were not as good and perfect as he'd believed, and he was able to feel sympathy for Snape after years of simply hating him.

So, I think Rey's lineage will connect her to Kylo, but not in the way Rey Related fans expect. She may very well learn that her parents did something that helped shape Ben into who he is now, and at the very least she will begin to feel compassion for him.
@WhatGirl

Yes, I think that's EXACTLY what's going to happen. I wish I could like your post a thousand times.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 4 Mar - 21:15

@Irina de France wrote:
@WhatGirl wrote:If Rey has dark side origins, I can see her denying her family name when she finds out. It will be her very own moment of, "You cannot deny the truth that is your family." She must have assumed her family were decent people since she waited so long for them to come back.

Harry Potter found out that his father, despite being admired in the wizarding world, was a vicious school bully who made Severus Snape's life hell. His parents were not as good and perfect as he'd believed, and he was able to feel sympathy for Snape after years of simply hating him.

So, I think Rey's lineage will connect her to Kylo, but not in the way Rey Related fans expect. She may very well learn that her parents did something that helped shape Ben into who he is now, and at the very least she will begin to feel compassion for him.
@WhatGirl

Yes, I think that's EXACTLY what's going to happen. I wish I could like your post a thousand times.
@Irina de France

Same. As I said in the other topic, the reveal of Rey's lineage is going to be PAINFUL for her. It's the only satisfying way to inject some character development in her story at this point. If her parents are 100% good people, she'll not face any challenge and her hero journey is going to be stagnant.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Irina de France on Sat 4 Mar - 21:20

@Piper Maru wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:
@WhatGirl wrote:If Rey has dark side origins, I can see her denying her family name when she finds out. It will be her very own moment of, "You cannot deny the truth that is your family." She must have assumed her family were decent people since she waited so long for them to come back.

Harry Potter found out that his father, despite being admired in the wizarding world, was a vicious school bully who made Severus Snape's life hell. His parents were not as good and perfect as he'd believed, and he was able to feel sympathy for Snape after years of simply hating him.

So, I think Rey's lineage will connect her to Kylo, but not in the way Rey Related fans expect. She may very well learn that her parents did something that helped shape Ben into who he is now, and at the very least she will begin to feel compassion for him.
@WhatGirl

Yes, I think that's EXACTLY what's going to happen. I wish I could like your post a thousand times.
@Irina de France

Same. As I said in the other topic, the reveal of Rey's lineage is going to be PAINFUL for her. It's the only satisfying way to inject some character development in her story at this point. If her parents are 100% good people, she'll not face any challenge and her hero journey is going to be stagnant.
@Piper Maru

Not just that. Imagine if her parents are responsible for releasing Snoke, as some people have theorized. Not only they're responsible for effing up Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's life, but also the entire Skywalker family as well.

Basically, if Rey's parents are Dark Siders, and she was separated from them, think about it: Kylo in TFA wants to estrange himself from his family as much as he can and only keep the figure of Vader in his life, but utterly fails in the process. Rey desperately wants to find her family, even if Maz tells her it's no use, and she slowly and unknowingly takes the place Ben would have had had he not fallen to the Dark Side.

In a timeline where Snoke would have never been freed, Rey would be in Kylo's position and Kylo in Rey's.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by snufkin on Sat 4 Mar - 21:33

One thing that the next movie has to do is finally force her to think about the very real possibility that her parents are/were the type of people who could abandon a small child in a place like Jakku. That's one of the reasons why she bolts from Maz and has the initial breakdown in the forest. The reality she's been keeping at bay finally hits her. She doesn't get much time to have a full breakdown because then she runs into you know who,. So that epiphany got tabled by more immediate concerns. But once she's stuck on a remote island planet with a hobo space wizard, she's going to have enough time on her hands that she'll have that breakdown she's being trying to keep from having.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by WhatGirl on Sat 4 Mar - 21:43

@Irina de France wrote:Not just that. Imagine if her parents are responsible for releasing Snoke, as some people have theorized. Not only they're responsible for effing up Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's life, but also the entire Skywalker family as well.

Basically, if Rey's parents are Dark Siders, and she was separated from them, think about it: Kylo in TFA wants to estrange himself from his family as much as he can and only keep the figure of Vader in his life, but utterly fails in the process. Rey desperately wants to find her family, even if Maz tells her it's no use, and she slowly and unknowingly takes the place Ben would have had had he not fallen to the Dark Side.

In a timeline where Snoke would have never been freed, Rey would be in Kylo's position and Kylo in Rey's.
@Irina de France



Yep, I agree. Rey and Ben would've had their roles reversed. Due to her abandonment and Snoke's manipulation of Ben, they have essentially switched destinies.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 4 Mar - 21:45

@WhatGirl wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:Not just that. Imagine if her parents are responsible for releasing Snoke, as some people have theorized. Not only they're responsible for effing up Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's life, but also the entire Skywalker family as well.

Basically, if Rey's parents are Dark Siders, and she was separated from them, think about it: Kylo in TFA wants to estrange himself from his family as much as he can and only keep the figure of Vader in his life, but utterly fails in the process. Rey desperately wants to find her family, even if Maz tells her it's no use, and she slowly and unknowingly takes the place Ben would have had had he not fallen to the Dark Side.

In a timeline where Snoke would have never been freed, Rey would be in Kylo's position and Kylo in Rey's.
@Irina de France



Yep, I agree. Rey and Ben would've had their roles reversed. Due to her abandonment and Snoke's manipulation of Ben, they have essentially switched destinies.
@WhatGirl

I love this image so much and I don't see a lot of people discussing it.

It's promo material, but Kylo's shadow is SO OBVIOUS.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 4 Mar - 21:51

@Piper Maru wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:
@WhatGirl wrote:If Rey has dark side origins, I can see her denying her family name when she finds out. It will be her very own moment of, "You cannot deny the truth that is your family." She must have assumed her family were decent people since she waited so long for them to come back.

Harry Potter found out that his father, despite being admired in the wizarding world, was a vicious school bully who made Severus Snape's life hell. His parents were not as good and perfect as he'd believed, and he was able to feel sympathy for Snape after years of simply hating him.

So, I think Rey's lineage will connect her to Kylo, but not in the way Rey Related fans expect. She may very well learn that her parents did something that helped shape Ben into who he is now, and at the very least she will begin to feel compassion for him.
@WhatGirl

Yes, I think that's EXACTLY what's going to happen. I wish I could like your post a thousand times.
@Irina de France

Same. As I said in the other topic, the reveal of Rey's lineage is going to be PAINFUL for her. It's the only satisfying way to inject some character development in her story at this point. If her parents are 100% good people, she'll not face any challenge and her hero journey is going to be stagnant.
@Piper Maru

Right. And we already got the "parents were basically good people who got caught up in a bad situation and had to abandon their daughter to save her" storyline with Jyn Erso. Whereas I had thought that Rey might have that backstory pre-Rogue One, now I think that Rey's abandonment is going to have been under much different circumstances.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 4 Mar - 21:54

@Piper Maru wrote:
@WhatGirl wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:Not just that. Imagine if her parents are responsible for releasing Snoke, as some people have theorized. Not only they're responsible for effing up Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's life, but also the entire Skywalker family as well.

Basically, if Rey's parents are Dark Siders, and she was separated from them, think about it: Kylo in TFA wants to estrange himself from his family as much as he can and only keep the figure of Vader in his life, but utterly fails in the process. Rey desperately wants to find her family, even if Maz tells her it's no use, and she slowly and unknowingly takes the place Ben would have had had he not fallen to the Dark Side.

In a timeline where Snoke would have never been freed, Rey would be in Kylo's position and Kylo in Rey's.
@Irina de France



Yep, I agree. Rey and Ben would've had their roles reversed. Due to her abandonment and Snoke's manipulation of Ben, they have essentially switched destinies.
@WhatGirl

I love this image so much and I don't see a lot of people discussing it.

It's promo material, but Kylo's shadow is SO OBVIOUS.
@Piper Maru

That's probably because the more common interpretation (in the GA and/or among Reywalkers) is that it's Vader's shadow. And you could make the argument about Vader casting a long shadow...especially if you were to think that Rey is also his granddaughter.

But for our story and for Rey-not-related, I think it's pretty obvious that it's Kylo.

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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 4 Mar - 22:04

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:
@WhatGirl wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:Not just that. Imagine if her parents are responsible for releasing Snoke, as some people have theorized. Not only they're responsible for effing up Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's life, but also the entire Skywalker family as well.

Basically, if Rey's parents are Dark Siders, and she was separated from them, think about it: Kylo in TFA wants to estrange himself from his family as much as he can and only keep the figure of Vader in his life, but utterly fails in the process. Rey desperately wants to find her family, even if Maz tells her it's no use, and she slowly and unknowingly takes the place Ben would have had had he not fallen to the Dark Side.

In a timeline where Snoke would have never been freed, Rey would be in Kylo's position and Kylo in Rey's.
@Irina de France



Yep, I agree. Rey and Ben would've had their roles reversed. Due to her abandonment and Snoke's manipulation of Ben, they have essentially switched destinies.
@WhatGirl

I love this image so much and I don't see a lot of people discussing it.

It's promo material, but Kylo's shadow is SO OBVIOUS.
@Piper Maru

That's probably because the more common interpretation (in the GA and/or among Reywalkers) is that it's Vader's shadow. And you could make the argument about Vader casting a long shadow...especially if you were to think that Rey is also his granddaughter.

But for our story and for Rey-not-related, I think it's pretty obvious that it's Kylo.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yeah, I see the Vader point, but that shadow is not Vader's. The hemlet is too small and the shape is the same as Kylo's.

Well, I think it's interesting people can assume that a shadow means a familiar connection. On psychological terms, the shadow is an unconscious aspect of the personality which the conscious ego does not identify in itself. It's the opposite of familiar.

In this context, Rey's shadow being similar to Kylo (or Vader) means that she has darkness and something UGLY within her that she doesn't want to accept.


Last edited by Piper Maru on Sat 4 Mar - 22:09; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : my keyboard is eating words)
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 4 Mar - 22:32

More about the "shadow" (I'm not a psychologist, but I studied Freud / Jung / Lacan for my grad thesis):

- The shadow is considered the black side of someone's personality.
- The shadow is an unconscious process and its contents are unknown to the conscious self.
- The shadow personifies everything that the subject refuses to acknowledge about himself
- The shadow is frequently equaled with the Freudian unconscious, which is made of repressed wishes.
- Freud linked these repressed contents mainly with sexual fantasies.
- The shadow is irrational, animalistic and violent.
- The shadow may appear in dreams and visions in a myriad of forms.
- Interactions with the shadow can be enlightning and life-changing. They're always intense.
- At some point, you will reach a state of identification with the shadow.
- The eventual encounter with the shadow is one of the central points of the process of "individuation", an achievement of self-actualization through a process of integrating the conscious and the unconscious.
- When an individual sees the shadow for the first time, he becomes aware of (and often ashamed of) the qualities and impulses he denies in himself but can plainly see in others.
- The individual sometimes can assimilate and "merge" with the shadow. When this happens, the analytical process truly begins.
- The shadow is a constant. Once you see it, it'll be with you for the rest of your life.

On fiction, the concept of 'shadow' can often be see in the Evil Counterpart trope, basically when the hero and the antagonist are two sides of the same coin, and one is evil.

So, I'm sorry, but that shadow is not Vader. It's Kylo Ren.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 4 Mar - 23:34

@Piper Maru wrote:More about the "shadow" (I'm not a psychologist, but I studied Freud / Jung / Lacan for my grad thesis):

- The shadow is considered the black side of someone's personality.
- The shadow is an unconscious process and its contents are unknown to the conscious self.
- The shadow personifies everything that the subject refuses to acknowledge about himself
- The shadow is frequently equaled with the Freudian unconscious, which is made of repressed wishes.
- Freud linked these repressed contents mainly with sexual fantasies.
- The shadow is irrational, animalistic and violent.
- The shadow may appear in dreams and visions in a myriad of forms.
- Interactions with the shadow can be enlightning and life-changing. They're always intense.
- At some point, you will reach a state of identification with the shadow.
- The eventual encounter with the shadow is one of the central points of the process of "individuation", an achievement of self-actualization through a process of integrating the conscious and the unconscious.
- When an individual sees the shadow for the first time, he becomes aware of (and often ashamed of) the qualities and impulses he denies in himself but can plainly see in others.
- The individual sometimes can assimilate and "merge" with the shadow. When this happens, the analytical process truly begins.
- The shadow is a constant. Once you see it, it'll be with you for the rest of your life.

On fiction, the concept of 'shadow' can often be see in the Evil Counterpart trope, basically when the hero and the antagonist are two sides of the same coin, and one is evil.

So, I'm sorry, but that shadow is not Vader. It's Kylo Ren.
@Piper Maru

I don't think you were on the board yet when this news came out, but you are right on target ... because said that he read Jung and Robert Bly (who is all about Jungian intergration to prepare for TLJ). I don't have a copy of the tweet because I am on my phone, but it's out there.

Also, I completely agree with the talk above about Rey and Kylo switching roles. This kind of thing will be part of the reason she will be able to see him differently and eventually love him ... because she could have been him if things worked out differently. She *needs* some kind of recognition of that from somewhere for her to really get him, understand him and eventually be on an equal footing in any relationship.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by SkyStar on Sat 4 Mar - 23:42

LOL revelation that Rey's parents are darksiders would perfectly mirror TESB. It wasn't the fact, that Lukes father is still alive and someone he knows that shook Luke so much and made him go all "Nooooo". Is the fact that his father is not the perfect Jedi hero he imagined and dreamed of, but an actual mass murderer.

It is easy to have some kind of idealized version of your parents, if they have passed before you can properly remember them. Or feel disconnected with the parents you have, because you know them with all their faults. Rey has built this perfect vision of her family and that is probably the only thing that keeps her going. Kylo blamed his living parents for abandoning him.

I agree - her emotions would probably hit her like a boomerang on that island. Either they are still alive and really have dumped her without all that Reywalker mumbo jumbo, or they weren't heroes she imagined them to be. She needs to face it and accept it. Like Kylo in reverse, who should forgive his parents for abandoning him and finally move on from his anger.

People really try to brush all of these connections she has with Kylo. The vision practically consisted of Kylo, for god's sake.
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Re: A Rey of Darkness: Dark Side Lineage Theories

Post by snufkin on Sun 5 Mar - 0:15

@SkyStar wrote:LOL revelation that Rey's parents are darksiders would perfectly mirror TESB. It wasn't the fact, that Lukes father is still alive and someone he knows that shook Luke so much and made him go all "Nooooo". Is the fact that his father is not the perfect Jedi hero he imagined and dreamed of, but an actual mass murderer.

It is easy to have some kind of idealized version of your parents, if they have passed before you can properly remember them. Or feel disconnected with the parents you have, because you know them with all their faults. Rey has built this perfect vision of her family and that is probably the only thing that keeps her going. Kylo blamed his living parents for abandoning him.

I agree - her emotions would probably hit her like a boomerang on that island. Either they are still alive and really have dumped her without all that Reywalker mumbo jumbo, or they weren't heroes she imagined them to be. She needs to face it and accept it. Like Kylo in reverse, who should forgive his parents for abandoning him and finally move on from his anger.

People really try to brush all of these connections she has with Kylo. The vision practically consisted of Kylo, for god's sake.
@SkyStar

Boomerang is such an excellent metaphor for what's going to hit Rey in the head and knock her over - no matter who they were, her parents never came back for her. It's the question that's been gnawing at her. It's not "is Luke my dad?" but "why did they leave me here?" The "I'm no one" line which got cut from her dialogue with Maz is what's hovering below the surface - being unworthy of love and care.
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