Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

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Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by CienaRee on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 5:44 am

We all come out of TFA loving Kylo and Rey both as a couple and as individuals but I was wondering do you happen to love Kylo or Rey more or do you love them equally? Very Happy
I wasn't sure whether to post it here or in the TFA thread since both Kylo and Rey will obviously change during the course of the trilogy so if one of the moderators want to move the thread there,it's fine by me.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:51 am

I always loved dark siders more, because they bring conflict in a hero's journey and conflict is mandatory in Star Wars. That doesn't mean I like Rey less, on the contrary. In fact, their dynamic is compelling and sparkly afro
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by spacebaby45678 on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 7:52 am

I think this is a GREAT question! Thank you!.This question reminds me a lot of are you a Batman or Superman fan. Kylo is Batman & Rey is Superman, and I have always loved Superman more. If you asked me to take either Rey or Kylo throw one of them under the bus or kill one of them for the sake of the saga it would be Kylo. I would keep Rey. So I am a Reyist, definitely.

Now who would make the better story probably Kylo, there is a lot there dramatically, but I like the good guys, heroes and happy ROMANTIC endings. Unlike Kasdan, I would have co signed GL's ROTJ happy ending with ewoks.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 9:43 am

Rey and Kylo really have the kind of hero/villain dynamic that makes them ineffective without the other. They go together. I think Kylo is a more interesting, engaging character right now simply because he has so much to learn, but Rey has that potential too. Without Rey there is no Kylo. There is no awesome development or fascinating TFA dynamic. Kylo wouldn't be a glimpse of the conflicted anti-villain he is if Rey were not such a great heroine already. They were created to evolve together, and this is something that comes across from their every interaction. So I would say I like them equally because I really feel as though they are just two parts of a whole. Of course they are their own characters and have their own struggles to overcome as individuals, but they also have to grow together.
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by ZioRen on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 10:11 am

Kylo right now by a longshot, because Rey has too few flaws for me to be as enamored with her. However, I fully expect her to become a complicated, fleshed out character in the next movies and I'm excited for her potential.
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Darth Dementor on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 10:43 am

Kylo because he's always decked out in black (my favorite colour) and he has a cool looking saber. Now if Rey gets a double edged one all bets are off. bounce

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Gemini on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 12:25 pm

I prefer Rey

I think there's lots of character development in TFA with her. She's just as conflicted I think.
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by MissG on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 4:22 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Rey and Kylo really have the kind of hero/villain dynamic that makes them ineffective without the other. They go together. I think Kylo is a more interesting, engaging character right now simply because he has so much to learn, but Rey has that potential too. Without Rey there is no Kylo. There is no awesome development or fascinating TFA dynamic. Kylo wouldn't be a glimpse of the conflicted anti-villain he is if Rey were not such a great heroine already. They were created to evolve together, and this is something that comes across from their every interaction. So I would say I like them equally because I really feel as though they are just two parts of a whole. Of course they are their own characters and have their own struggles to overcome as individuals, but they also have to grow together.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Very well put and I mostly share your preference. I do feel though that in a conversation I've more to talk about when it comes to Kylo,  and yet as @spacebaby45678 said if I had to pick for one of them to die in the end, as much as it'd pain me it would be Kylo rather than Rey.
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 4:48 pm

@MissG wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Rey and Kylo really have the kind of hero/villain dynamic that makes them ineffective without the other. They go together. I think Kylo is a more interesting, engaging character right now simply because he has so much to learn, but Rey has that potential too. Without Rey there is no Kylo. There is no awesome development or fascinating TFA dynamic. Kylo wouldn't be a glimpse of the conflicted anti-villain he is if Rey were not such a great heroine already. They were created to evolve together, and this is something that comes across from their every interaction. So I would say I like them equally because I really feel as though they are just two parts of a whole. Of course they are their own characters and have their own struggles to overcome as individuals, but they also have to grow together.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Very well put and I mostly share your preference. I do feel though that in a conversation I've more to talk about when it comes to Kylo,  and yet as @spacebaby45678 said if I had to pick for one of them to die in the end, as much as it'd pain me it would be Kylo rather than Rey.
@MissG

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Mana on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 7:50 pm

Can't have one without the other... Very Happy
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Guest on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 8:14 pm

As of tomorrow, I will have been obsessed with the puppy-faced dark sider for exactly 8 months. cheers

I run a Kylo Ren page on LJ that rarely mentions Rey. I tend to write and share articles about the First Order and the Knights of Ren if I am not discussing Kylo directly. I am just very fascinated with the dark side in general. I've written fanfic featuring Kylo without Rey appearing at all.

It is the heroine/villain dynamics of Reylo that intrigue me; they're so different and yet not unlike. The way they interact with one another is completely unique from how they behave around other characters. The pairing has epic romance written all over it and I hope it becomes canon.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Guest on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 10:23 pm

Much as I love Rey, I LOVE Kylo. It was Kylo that drew me into Star Wars again and got me obsessed. I want Kylo to be redeemed and live on as Ben Solo even more than I want Reylo to happen. I want good things for Rey. But ngl, I'd be devastated if Kylo died unredeemed and unloved.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Guest on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 10:55 pm

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Much as I love Rey, I LOVE Kylo. It was Kylo that drew me into Star Wars again and got me obsessed. I want Kylo to be redeemed and live on as Ben Solo even more than I want Reylo to happen. I want good things for Rey. But ngl, I'd be devastated if Kylo died unredeemed and unloved.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Yes! It's his redemption that I'll be rooting for the most. What I am absolutely looking forward to is that moment - that exact turning point - when Kylo makes the decision on-screen to go against Snoke and does something good/heroic that puts him back on the right path. If it happens it will probably be done in an unexpected way since the character is so unpredictable, and there will be gasps and possibly cheers in the audience.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by MissG on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 4:08 am

@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@MissG wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Rey and Kylo really have the kind of hero/villain dynamic that makes them ineffective without the other. They go together. I think Kylo is a more interesting, engaging character right now simply because he has so much to learn, but Rey has that potential too. Without Rey there is no Kylo. There is no awesome development or fascinating TFA dynamic. Kylo wouldn't be a glimpse of the conflicted anti-villain he is if Rey were not such a great heroine already. They were created to evolve together, and this is something that comes across from their every interaction. So I would say I like them equally because I really feel as though they are just two parts of a whole. Of course they are their own characters and have their own struggles to overcome as individuals, but they also have to grow together.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Very well put and I mostly share your preference. I do feel though that in a conversation I've more to talk about when it comes to Kylo,  and yet as @spacebaby45678 said if I had to pick for one of them to die in the end, as much as it'd pain me it would be Kylo rather than Rey.
@MissG

I don't want my baby to die About to C
@Maria Antonietta


Don't get me wrong I'd hate for any of them to die, but if somebody came up to me and told me to choose or both die I'd have to pick one.
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by CienaRee on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 4:27 am

WhatGirl wrote:As of tomorrow, I will have been obsessed with the puppy-faced dark sider for exactly 8 months. cheers

I run a Kylo Ren page on LJ that rarely mentions Rey. I tend to write and share articles about the First Order and the Knights of Ren if I am not discussing Kylo directly. I am just very fascinated with the dark side in general. I've written fanfic featuring Kylo without Rey appearing at all.

It is the heroine/villain dynamics of Reylo that intrigue me; they're so different and yet not unlike. The way they interact with one another is completely unique from how they behave around other characters. The pairing has epic romance written all over it and I hope it becomes canon.
@WhatGirl
Oh,what's your LJ,I would be interested in reading your articales. Very Happy

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Saracene on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 5:16 am

As an individual character, Kylo by a long, looong shot. Rey works for me because of Daisy's insanely charming performance, but I just don't feel like there's all that much to her character as written, after TFA. She's only really interesting in her scenes with Kylo, but Kylo I think would have been a strong distinctive character even without Rey.
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by CienaRee on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 5:23 am

@Saracene wrote:As an individual character, Kylo by a long, looong shot. Rey works for me because of Daisy's insanely charming performance, but I just don't feel like there's all that much to her character as written, after TFA. She's only really interesting in her scenes with Kylo, but Kylo I think would have been a strong distinctive character even without Rey.
@Saracene
I think one of my biggest issues probably the biggest is that they didn't really show the effects on living on Jakku Rey should deal with which includes trusting people,etc because they wanted the audience to like her immediatly.For me that's the wrong way to go about it because if you limit you character that way.When people only see the good sieds of a character they tend to ignore his or her flaws and later on are disspaointed when the character doesn't live up to their ideal.
The only time we hear what it was for her was when Kylo saw her memories so I'm not sure whether the audience got how lonely and potentially traumatic her living on Jakku was.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Kessel on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 7:41 am

I care about both of them and I'm very interested in their dynamic, but I'm also very invested in Kylo's redemption. To me, redemption is more important than Reylo, but I can't see Kylo redeeming himself without Rey being a part of that redemption so I see Reylo (in some form) and redemption going hand in hand.

If I had to pick one of them, it would be Kylo. Like others have mentioned, he's currently the more intriguing character and has the most development. Also, if I'm being honest, Kylo is the one I have more emotional investment in and he's the one I worry about the most. I don't really worry about Rey because I feel like no matter what, she'll be fine at the end of this trilogy. I hope tptb aren't afraid to really develop/challenge her character, and I'm not just talking about Reylo when I say that. I'm hopeful she receives the character development she deserves. I want her to be just as compelling a character as Kylo. We didn't see it that much yet in TFA, but she has the potential.

I know Rey will likely face challenges from her past, her family and her own destiny, but based on what I saw in TFA, I feel like the way she'll really get that needed development is through her dynamic with Kylo.
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by CienaRee on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 8:10 am

Kessel89 wrote:I care about both of them and I'm very interested in their dynamic, but I'm also very invested in Kylo's redemption. To me, redemption is more important than Reylo, but I can't see Kylo redeeming himself without Rey being a part of that redemption so I see Reylo (in some form) and redemption going hand in hand.

If I had to pick one of them, it would be Kylo. Like others have mentioned, he's currently the more intriguing character and has the most development. Also, if I'm being honest, Kylo is the one I have more emotional investment in and he's the one I worry about the most. I don't really worry about Rey because I feel like no matter what, she'll be fine at the end of this trilogy. I hope tptb aren't afraid to really develop/challenge her character, and I'm not just talking about Reylo when I say that. I'm hopeful she receives the character development she deserves. I want her to be just as compelling a character as Kylo. We didn't see it that much yet in TFA, but she has the potential.

I know Rey will likely face challenges from her past, her family and her own destiny, but based on what I saw in TFA, I feel like the way she'll really get that needed development is through her dynamic with Kylo.
@Kessel89
It's interesting you say that because it reminds me of a converstaion between LK and GL I found in another forum:

Kasdan: I think you should kill Luke and have Leia take over.
Lucas: You don’t want to kill Luke.
Kasdan: Okay, then kill Yoda.
Lucas: I don’t want to kill Yoda. You don’t have to kill people. You’re a produce of the 1980’s. You don’t go around killing people. It’s not nice.
Kasdan: No, I’m not. I’m trying to give the story some kind of an edge to it.
Lucas; I know you’re trying to make it more realistic, which is what I tried to do when I killed Ben – but I managed to take the edge off of it – and it’s what I tried to do when I froze Han. But this is the end of the trilogy and we’ve already established that there are real dangers. I don’t think we have to kill anyone to prove it.
Kasdan: No one has been hurt.
Lucas: Ben and Han, they’ve both – Luke got his hand cut off.
Kasdan: Ben and Han are fine. Luke got a new hand two cuts later.
Lucas; By killing somebody, I think you alienate the audience.
Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.
Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.
Kasdan: Well, that’s all right.
Lucas; I have always hated that in movies, when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. This is a fairy tale. You want everybody to live happily ever after and nothing bad happens to anybody.
Kasdan: I hate it when characters get killed, too.
Lucas: Oh, you do.
Kasdan: I do.
Lucas: I resent it and I resented it when I was a little kid. I would watch and there would be these five guys and one of them would be the funny clown and halfway through, one of them gets killed. Why did they kill the lead? He was the best character.

Lucas: The whole point of the film, the whole emotion that I am trying to get at the end of the film, is for you to be real uplifted, emotionally and spiritually, and feel absolutely good about life. That is the greatest thing that we could possibly ever do.


Not that I think Rey's going to die or anything)the chances for that are most likely zero)but it's interesting to see how Kasdan and Lucas's views clash on some things and how that affaected the OT and maybe this one as well.
Personally I'm all about balance.RT could have showed how dangerious what the heroes were attempting to accomplish was but George just made it too childish and the Ewokes certantly didn't help  get the sense that  there were real stakes for the OT3 which is why Kasdan's original idea could have been more effective and work better.I really hope episode 9 doesn't fall into this trap.It's exactly because it's the end of the trilogy that you need to show the extent of danger and why it's worth it for the characters to risk their lives and win in the end even if noone ends up dying.It's what you've bene building up to all this time.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by snufkin on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 1:14 pm

@CienaRee wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:I care about both of them and I'm very interested in their dynamic, but I'm also very invested in Kylo's redemption. To me, redemption is more important than Reylo, but I can't see Kylo redeeming himself without Rey being a part of that redemption so I see Reylo (in some form) and redemption going hand in hand.

If I had to pick one of them, it would be Kylo. Like others have mentioned, he's currently the more intriguing character and has the most development. Also, if I'm being honest, Kylo is the one I have more emotional investment in and he's the one I worry about the most. I don't really worry about Rey because I feel like no matter what, she'll be fine at the end of this trilogy. I hope tptb aren't afraid to really develop/challenge her character, and I'm not just talking about Reylo when I say that. I'm hopeful she receives the character development she deserves. I want her to be just as compelling a character as Kylo. We didn't see it that much yet in TFA, but she has the potential.

I know Rey will likely face challenges from her past, her family and her own destiny, but based on what I saw in TFA, I feel like the way she'll really get that needed development is through her dynamic with Kylo.
@Kessel89
It's interesting you say that because it reminds me of a converstaion between LK and GL I found in another forum:

Kasdan: I think you should kill Luke and have Leia take over.
Lucas: You don’t want to kill Luke.
Kasdan: Okay, then kill Yoda.
Lucas: I don’t want to kill Yoda. You don’t have to kill people. You’re a produce of the 1980’s. You don’t go around killing people. It’s not nice.
Kasdan: No, I’m not. I’m trying to give the story some kind of an edge to it.
Lucas; I know you’re trying to make it more realistic, which is what I tried to do when I killed Ben – but I managed to take the edge off of it – and it’s what I tried to do when I froze Han. But this is the end of the trilogy and we’ve already established that there are real dangers. I don’t think we have to kill anyone to prove it.
Kasdan: No one has been hurt.
Lucas: Ben and Han, they’ve both – Luke got his hand cut off.
Kasdan: Ben and Han are fine. Luke got a new hand two cuts later.
Lucas; By killing somebody, I think you alienate the audience.
Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.
Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.
Kasdan: Well, that’s all right.
Lucas; I have always hated that in movies, when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. This is a fairy tale. You want everybody to live happily ever after and nothing bad happens to anybody.
Kasdan: I hate it when characters get killed, too.
Lucas: Oh, you do.
Kasdan: I do.
Lucas: I resent it and I resented it when I was a little kid. I would watch and there would be these five guys and one of them would be the funny clown and halfway through, one of them gets killed. Why did they kill the lead? He was the best character.

Lucas: The whole point of the film, the whole emotion that I am trying to get at the end of the film, is for you to be real uplifted, emotionally and spiritually, and feel absolutely good about life. That is the greatest thing that we could possibly ever do.


Not that I think Rey's going to die or anything)the chances for that are most likely zero)but it's interesting to see how Kasdan and Lucas's views clash on some things and how that affaected the OT and maybe this one as well.
Personally I'm all about balance.RT could have showed how dangerious what the heroes were attempting to accomplish was but George just made it too childish and the Ewokes certantly didn't help  get the sense that  there were real stakes for the OT3 which is why Kasdan's original idea could have been more effective and work better.I really hope episode 9 doesn't fall into this trap.It's exactly because it's the end of the trilogy that you need to show the extent of danger and why it's worth it for the characters to risk their lives and win in the end even if noone ends up dying.It's what you've bene building up to all this time.
@CienaRee

OMG, Lucas and Kasdan are basically having fan debates before the Internet existed. Seriously, "I think it should be edgy" versus "I don't like that." They're both equally right and reading this made me think that it probably did work better to keep Han alive (Kasdan and Ford thought he should die in either ESB or TotJ) through TFA. He does die and make a sacrifice, but it means a lot more having it be to save somebody he loves (his child no less) than just as collateral damage during wartime. I'm not down with the Ewoks, but Lucas has my vote versus the "that would be dark/cool/edgy" type of fan theories. Or even killing off Han to simply be edgy is somewhat like how a lot of shows and movies try to be dark or show things as high stakes/dangerous by falling into the trap of using rape as a lazy and ugly shortcut. Not to equate the two, but the above sounds a lot like Kasdan suggesting that it happen for the sake of showing that the situation is dangerous. Which worked better (imo) for how Han eventually does die - it does show the danger and sacrifice but works better in terms of the overarching narrative.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Kessel on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 5:53 pm

@CienaRee- That's a fascinating conversation between Lucas and Kasdan. Both POV have valid points and I agree with both, but at the end of the day, I side more with Lucas (when it comes to happy endings). I think his vision fits more with SW. Most traditional stories are in line with what Lucas was advocating, but lately, stories/shows like GOT are exhibiting what Kasdan was talking about, although GOT takes it to an extreme beyond what Kasdan ever would  (in my opinion). The story needs to feel like there are some emotional stakes, but there shouldn't be shocking and traumatic events just to manipulate the audience's emotions or shock them. It needs to fit the story. @Snufkin,  I agree that Han's death in TFA fits more with the story than him dying in TESB or ROTJ because it serves the story's purpose.

I think the ST will take some risks, but there's certain lines it won't cross (i.e. Rey dying) because SW is ultimately a hopeful story. However, I worry that most of the emotional weight and risks will come from Kylo and his arc. Since I have concerns that Rey won't be as challenged as Kylo, I'm less apprehensive for her (or Finn).  I hope I'm wrong and tptb aren't afraid to take story appropriate risks with Rey and challenge her character. It's one of the reasons I think it's important she and Finn have separate arcs because together they're not really challenged.
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Mana on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 6:11 pm

@CienaRee wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:I care about both of them and I'm very interested in their dynamic, but I'm also very invested in Kylo's redemption. To me, redemption is more important than Reylo, but I can't see Kylo redeeming himself without Rey being a part of that redemption so I see Reylo (in some form) and redemption going hand in hand.

If I had to pick one of them, it would be Kylo. Like others have mentioned, he's currently the more intriguing character and has the most development. Also, if I'm being honest, Kylo is the one I have more emotional investment in and he's the one I worry about the most. I don't really worry about Rey because I feel like no matter what, she'll be fine at the end of this trilogy. I hope tptb aren't afraid to really develop/challenge her character, and I'm not just talking about Reylo when I say that. I'm hopeful she receives the character development she deserves. I want her to be just as compelling a character as Kylo. We didn't see it that much yet in TFA, but she has the potential.

I know Rey will likely face challenges from her past, her family and her own destiny, but based on what I saw in TFA, I feel like the way she'll really get that needed development is through her dynamic with Kylo.
@Kessel89
It's interesting you say that because it reminds me of a converstaion between LK and GL I found in another forum:

Kasdan: I think you should kill Luke and have Leia take over.
Lucas: You don’t want to kill Luke.
Kasdan: Okay, then kill Yoda.
Lucas: I don’t want to kill Yoda. You don’t have to kill people. You’re a produce of the 1980’s. You don’t go around killing people. It’s not nice.
Kasdan: No, I’m not. I’m trying to give the story some kind of an edge to it.
Lucas; I know you’re trying to make it more realistic, which is what I tried to do when I killed Ben – but I managed to take the edge off of it – and it’s what I tried to do when I froze Han. But this is the end of the trilogy and we’ve already established that there are real dangers. I don’t think we have to kill anyone to prove it.
Kasdan: No one has been hurt.
Lucas: Ben and Han, they’ve both – Luke got his hand cut off.
Kasdan: Ben and Han are fine. Luke got a new hand two cuts later.
Lucas; By killing somebody, I think you alienate the audience.
Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.
Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.
Kasdan: Well, that’s all right.
Lucas; I have always hated that in movies, when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. This is a fairy tale. You want everybody to live happily ever after and nothing bad happens to anybody.
Kasdan: I hate it when characters get killed, too.
Lucas: Oh, you do.
Kasdan: I do.
Lucas: I resent it and I resented it when I was a little kid. I would watch and there would be these five guys and one of them would be the funny clown and halfway through, one of them gets killed. Why did they kill the lead? He was the best character.

Lucas: The whole point of the film, the whole emotion that I am trying to get at the end of the film, is for you to be real uplifted, emotionally and spiritually, and feel absolutely good about life. That is the greatest thing that we could possibly ever do.


Not that I think Rey's going to die or anything)the chances for that are most likely zero)but it's interesting to see how Kasdan and Lucas's views clash on some things and how that affaected the OT and maybe this one as well.
Personally I'm all about balance.RT could have showed how dangerious what the heroes were attempting to accomplish was but George just made it too childish and the Ewokes certantly didn't help  get the sense that  there were real stakes for the OT3 which is why Kasdan's original idea could have been more effective and work better.I really hope episode 9 doesn't fall into this trap.It's exactly because it's the end of the trilogy that you need to show the extent of danger and why it's worth it for the characters to risk their lives and win in the end even if noone ends up dying.It's what you've bene building up to all this time.
@CienaRee
One of the reasons I think the comedy adventures of Rey and Finn won't happen is because it adds zero emotional weight to the story. They're both obviously going to have somewhat happy endings, so it makes no sense to put them together at all...cute won't cut it in a Star Wars saga. But Kylo is just as valuable not only for his bloodline, but because he's the character that no one is afraid to take risks with...they had him (The last Skywalker) commit patricide and made the audience believe there might be no turning back for him. It's Kylo's journey that's adding all the emotional weight and Rey's dynamic with Kylo that's going to be central. I honestly don't believe they're going to take risks with Rey...or else I would absolutely LOVE for them to make her a grey character. They had the chance to make Finn a grey character but they missed that opportunity, they could have absolutely taken advantage of his Stormtrooper background, but no....
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by CienaRee on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 7:09 pm

@Mana wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:I care about both of them and I'm very interested in their dynamic, but I'm also very invested in Kylo's redemption. To me, redemption is more important than Reylo, but I can't see Kylo redeeming himself without Rey being a part of that redemption so I see Reylo (in some form) and redemption going hand in hand.

If I had to pick one of them, it would be Kylo. Like others have mentioned, he's currently the more intriguing character and has the most development. Also, if I'm being honest, Kylo is the one I have more emotional investment in and he's the one I worry about the most. I don't really worry about Rey because I feel like no matter what, she'll be fine at the end of this trilogy. I hope tptb aren't afraid to really develop/challenge her character, and I'm not just talking about Reylo when I say that. I'm hopeful she receives the character development she deserves. I want her to be just as compelling a character as Kylo. We didn't see it that much yet in TFA, but she has the potential.

I know Rey will likely face challenges from her past, her family and her own destiny, but based on what I saw in TFA, I feel like the way she'll really get that needed development is through her dynamic with Kylo.
@Kessel89
It's interesting you say that because it reminds me of a converstaion between LK and GL I found in another forum:

Kasdan: I think you should kill Luke and have Leia take over.
Lucas: You don’t want to kill Luke.
Kasdan: Okay, then kill Yoda.
Lucas: I don’t want to kill Yoda. You don’t have to kill people. You’re a produce of the 1980’s. You don’t go around killing people. It’s not nice.
Kasdan: No, I’m not. I’m trying to give the story some kind of an edge to it.
Lucas; I know you’re trying to make it more realistic, which is what I tried to do when I killed Ben – but I managed to take the edge off of it – and it’s what I tried to do when I froze Han. But this is the end of the trilogy and we’ve already established that there are real dangers. I don’t think we have to kill anyone to prove it.
Kasdan: No one has been hurt.
Lucas: Ben and Han, they’ve both – Luke got his hand cut off.
Kasdan: Ben and Han are fine. Luke got a new hand two cuts later.
Lucas; By killing somebody, I think you alienate the audience.
Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.
Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.
Kasdan: Well, that’s all right.
Lucas; I have always hated that in movies, when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. This is a fairy tale. You want everybody to live happily ever after and nothing bad happens to anybody.
Kasdan: I hate it when characters get killed, too.
Lucas: Oh, you do.
Kasdan: I do.
Lucas: I resent it and I resented it when I was a little kid. I would watch and there would be these five guys and one of them would be the funny clown and halfway through, one of them gets killed. Why did they kill the lead? He was the best character.

Lucas: The whole point of the film, the whole emotion that I am trying to get at the end of the film, is for you to be real uplifted, emotionally and spiritually, and feel absolutely good about life. That is the greatest thing that we could possibly ever do.


Not that I think Rey's going to die or anything)the chances for that are most likely zero)but it's interesting to see how Kasdan and Lucas's views clash on some things and how that affaected the OT and maybe this one as well.
Personally I'm all about balance.RT could have showed how dangerious what the heroes were attempting to accomplish was but George just made it too childish and the Ewokes certantly didn't help  get the sense that  there were real stakes for the OT3 which is why Kasdan's original idea could have been more effective and work better.I really hope episode 9 doesn't fall into this trap.It's exactly because it's the end of the trilogy that you need to show the extent of danger and why it's worth it for the characters to risk their lives and win in the end even if noone ends up dying.It's what you've bene building up to all this time.
@CienaRee
One of the reasons I think the comedy adventures of Rey and Finn won't happen is because it adds zero emotional weight to the story. They're both obviously going to have somewhat happy endings, so it makes no sense to put them together at all...cute won't cut it in a Star Wars saga. But Kylo is just as valuable not only for his bloodline, but because he's the character that no one is afraid to take risks with...they had him (The last Skywalker) commit patricide and made the audience believe there might be no turning back for him. It's Kylo's journey that's adding all the emotional weight and Rey's dynamic with Kylo that's going to be central. I honestly don't believe they're going to take risks with Rey...or else I would absolutely LOVE for them to make her a grey character. They had the chance  to make Finn a grey character but they missed that opportunity, they could have absolutely taken advantage of his Stormtrooper background, but no....
@Mana

Honestly,from storytelling perspective I have no idea what Rey's storyline could be other than going donwhill from here on when the poitn of TFA was her finding people who can be her new family and letting go of the past.She reminds me a lot of another popular character Quinlan Vos who thought he had friends and belonged somehwree but once he met Asjajj and fell in love with her while she was training him to confront Dooku he started doing more questionable stuff and  he just became darker when he was captured and tortured by him.However just because he became dark didn't mean he was one dimensioanl evil like Palpatine for example.He believed that by murdering finding out the identity of the Sith Lord and killing him he would put an end to the Clone War so it was the case of him becoming delusional that the DS can help him achieve it.
For Rey to truly work as a protagonist she needs to be challenged because she did everything in TFA that took Luke to do in the OT so what exactly is she going to do in the next two movies.I'm genuinely curious because people will notice if Rey remainds basically the same while  Kylo goes through so much character development and finally redeems himself.It will be awful writing and I would be really dissapoitned for havingw asted so much potential with Rey especially when she's being portrayed by such a good actress who has the acting chops to pull dark and delusional Rey in a convincing manner.Even Luke who never went dark changed over the course of the story and didn't win over Vader the first time he confronted him or become all powerful when he found out he was FS(consiering tehf act taht he was the son of the Chosen One).There has to be a snese of equalness between Kylo and Rey besides being both FS otherwise I'm not sure how  they would make a good pair  without Kylo feeling Rey's so much better than him or Rey being able to understand  Kylo(and that goes for not only Rey but any other potential love interest Kylo might have).
But yeah LucasFilm deffinatly dropped the ball with Finn,I have no idea what they were thinking.When the villain shows more rmeorse after commiting patricide than the hero who shows no remorse or hesitation over killing people he grew up with you know you screwed up very badly.The sad thing is they probably never thought it would look like that.

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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by Mana on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 7:30 pm

@CienaRee wrote:
@Mana wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:I care about both of them and I'm very interested in their dynamic, but I'm also very invested in Kylo's redemption. To me, redemption is more important than Reylo, but I can't see Kylo redeeming himself without Rey being a part of that redemption so I see Reylo (in some form) and redemption going hand in hand.

If I had to pick one of them, it would be Kylo. Like others have mentioned, he's currently the more intriguing character and has the most development. Also, if I'm being honest, Kylo is the one I have more emotional investment in and he's the one I worry about the most. I don't really worry about Rey because I feel like no matter what, she'll be fine at the end of this trilogy. I hope tptb aren't afraid to really develop/challenge her character, and I'm not just talking about Reylo when I say that. I'm hopeful she receives the character development she deserves. I want her to be just as compelling a character as Kylo. We didn't see it that much yet in TFA, but she has the potential.

I know Rey will likely face challenges from her past, her family and her own destiny, but based on what I saw in TFA, I feel like the way she'll really get that needed development is through her dynamic with Kylo.
@Kessel89
It's interesting you say that because it reminds me of a converstaion between LK and GL I found in another forum:

Kasdan: I think you should kill Luke and have Leia take over.
Lucas: You don’t want to kill Luke.
Kasdan: Okay, then kill Yoda.
Lucas: I don’t want to kill Yoda. You don’t have to kill people. You’re a produce of the 1980’s. You don’t go around killing people. It’s not nice.
Kasdan: No, I’m not. I’m trying to give the story some kind of an edge to it.
Lucas; I know you’re trying to make it more realistic, which is what I tried to do when I killed Ben – but I managed to take the edge off of it – and it’s what I tried to do when I froze Han. But this is the end of the trilogy and we’ve already established that there are real dangers. I don’t think we have to kill anyone to prove it.
Kasdan: No one has been hurt.
Lucas: Ben and Han, they’ve both – Luke got his hand cut off.
Kasdan: Ben and Han are fine. Luke got a new hand two cuts later.
Lucas; By killing somebody, I think you alienate the audience.
Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.
Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.
Kasdan: Well, that’s all right.
Lucas; I have always hated that in movies, when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. This is a fairy tale. You want everybody to live happily ever after and nothing bad happens to anybody.
Kasdan: I hate it when characters get killed, too.
Lucas: Oh, you do.
Kasdan: I do.
Lucas: I resent it and I resented it when I was a little kid. I would watch and there would be these five guys and one of them would be the funny clown and halfway through, one of them gets killed. Why did they kill the lead? He was the best character.

Lucas: The whole point of the film, the whole emotion that I am trying to get at the end of the film, is for you to be real uplifted, emotionally and spiritually, and feel absolutely good about life. That is the greatest thing that we could possibly ever do.


Not that I think Rey's going to die or anything)the chances for that are most likely zero)but it's interesting to see how Kasdan and Lucas's views clash on some things and how that affaected the OT and maybe this one as well.
Personally I'm all about balance.RT could have showed how dangerious what the heroes were attempting to accomplish was but George just made it too childish and the Ewokes certantly didn't help  get the sense that  there were real stakes for the OT3 which is why Kasdan's original idea could have been more effective and work better.I really hope episode 9 doesn't fall into this trap.It's exactly because it's the end of the trilogy that you need to show the extent of danger and why it's worth it for the characters to risk their lives and win in the end even if noone ends up dying.It's what you've bene building up to all this time.
@CienaRee
One of the reasons I think the comedy adventures of Rey and Finn won't happen is because it adds zero emotional weight to the story. They're both obviously going to have somewhat happy endings, so it makes no sense to put them together at all...cute won't cut it in a Star Wars saga. But Kylo is just as valuable not only for his bloodline, but because he's the character that no one is afraid to take risks with...they had him (The last Skywalker) commit patricide and made the audience believe there might be no turning back for him. It's Kylo's journey that's adding all the emotional weight and Rey's dynamic with Kylo that's going to be central. I honestly don't believe they're going to take risks with Rey...or else I would absolutely LOVE for them to make her a grey character. They had the chance  to make Finn a grey character but they missed that opportunity, they could have absolutely taken advantage of his Stormtrooper background, but no....
@Mana

Honestly,from storytelling perspective I have no idea what Rey's storyline could be other than going donwhill from here on when the poitn of TFA was her finding people who can be her new family and letting go of the past.She reminds me a lot of another popular character Quinlan Vos who thought he had friends and belonged somehwree but once he met Asjajj and fell in love with her while she was training him to confront Dooku he started doing more questionable stuff and  he just became darker when he was captured and tortured by him.However just because he became dark didn't mean he was one dimensioanl evil like Palpatine for example.He believed that by murdering finding out the identity of the Sith Lord and killing him he would put an end to the Clone War so it was the case of him becoming delusional that the DS can help him achieve it.
For Rey to truly work as a protagonist she needs to be challenged because she did everything in TFA that took Luke to do in the OT so what exactly is she going to do in the next two movies.I'm genuinely curious because people will notice if Rey remainds basically the same while  Kylo goes through so much character development and finally redeems himself.It will be awful writing and I would be really dissapoitned for havingw asted so much potential with Rey especially when she's being portrayed by such a good actress who has the acting chops to pull dark and delusional Rey in a convincing manner.Even Luke who never went dark changed over the course of the story and didn't win over Vader the first time he confronted him or become all powerful when he found out he was FS(consiering tehf act taht he was the son of the Chosen One).There has to be a snese of equalness between Kylo and Rey besides being both FS otherwise I'm not sure how  they would make a good pair  without Kylo feeling Rey's so much better than him or Rey being able to understand  Kylo(and that goes for not only Rey but any other potential love interest Kylo might have).
But yeah LucasFilm deffinatly dropped the ball with Finn,I have no idea what they were thinking.When the villain shows more rmeorse after commiting patricide than the hero who shows no remorse or hesitation over killing people he grew up with you know you screwed up very badly.The sad thing is they probably never thought it would look like that.
@CienaRee

For me the bolded part is probably the number one reason why Reywalker isn't happening, not because of the debunkings..but because it makes no sense at all to have that happen to Rey
So she shows up on Achto and all her dreams and wishes come true? yeah right
Rey is interesting to me because she isn't a Skywalker, she has to find her own path and my biggest worry is they won't take risks with her along the way
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Re: Kylo or Rey:Who do you prefer?

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:56 am

Ladies, I love this convo! And the Lucas/Kasdan dialogue is gold.
@CienaRee wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:I care about both of them and I'm very interested in their dynamic, but I'm also very invested in Kylo's redemption. To me, redemption is more important than Reylo, but I can't see Kylo redeeming himself without Rey being a part of that redemption so I see Reylo (in some form) and redemption going hand in hand.

If I had to pick one of them, it would be Kylo. Like others have mentioned, he's currently the more intriguing character and has the most development. Also, if I'm being honest, Kylo is the one I have more emotional investment in and he's the one I worry about the most. I don't really worry about Rey because I feel like no matter what, she'll be fine at the end of this trilogy. I hope tptb aren't afraid to really develop/challenge her character, and I'm not just talking about Reylo when I say that. I'm hopeful she receives the character development she deserves. I want her to be just as compelling a character as Kylo. We didn't see it that much yet in TFA, but she has the potential.

I know Rey will likely face challenges from her past, her family and her own destiny, but based on what I saw in TFA, I feel like the way she'll really get that needed development is through her dynamic with Kylo.
@Kessel89
It's interesting you say that because it reminds me of a converstaion between LK and GL I found in another forum:

Kasdan: I think you should kill Luke and have Leia take over.
Lucas: You don’t want to kill Luke.
Kasdan: Okay, then kill Yoda.
Lucas: I don’t want to kill Yoda. You don’t have to kill people. You’re a produce of the 1980’s. You don’t go around killing people. It’s not nice.
Kasdan: No, I’m not. I’m trying to give the story some kind of an edge to it.
Lucas; I know you’re trying to make it more realistic, which is what I tried to do when I killed Ben – but I managed to take the edge off of it – and it’s what I tried to do when I froze Han. But this is the end of the trilogy and we’ve already established that there are real dangers. I don’t think we have to kill anyone to prove it.
Kasdan: No one has been hurt.
Lucas: Ben and Han, they’ve both – Luke got his hand cut off.
Kasdan: Ben and Han are fine. Luke got a new hand two cuts later.
Lucas; By killing somebody, I think you alienate the audience.
Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.
Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.
Kasdan: Well, that’s all right.
Lucas; I have always hated that in movies, when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. This is a fairy tale. You want everybody to live happily ever after and nothing bad happens to anybody.
Kasdan: I hate it when characters get killed, too.
Lucas: Oh, you do.
Kasdan: I do.
Lucas: I resent it and I resented it when I was a little kid. I would watch and there would be these five guys and one of them would be the funny clown and halfway through, one of them gets killed. Why did they kill the lead? He was the best character.

Lucas: The whole point of the film, the whole emotion that I am trying to get at the end of the film, is for you to be real uplifted, emotionally and spiritually, and feel absolutely good about life. That is the greatest thing that we could possibly ever do.


Not that I think Rey's going to die or anything)the chances for that are most likely zero)but it's interesting to see how Kasdan and Lucas's views clash on some things and how that affaected the OT and maybe this one as well.
Personally I'm all about balance.RT could have showed how dangerious what the heroes were attempting to accomplish was but George just made it too childish and the Ewokes certantly didn't help  get the sense that  there were real stakes for the OT3 which is why Kasdan's original idea could have been more effective and work better.I really hope episode 9 doesn't fall into this trap.It's exactly because it's the end of the trilogy that you need to show the extent of danger and why it's worth it for the characters to risk their lives and win in the end even if noone ends up dying.It's what you've bene building up to all this time.
@CienaRee

I love this convo... and the Lucas/Kasdan dialogue is gold. I will alwys fall on the side of GL in this argument, even though Kasdan is the better writer and maybe GL's shadow and adding just the right amount of darkness to GL'S visions to keep everything in the saga from reading like TPM.  @Mana As far as Rey's story arc going down, as the protagonist is must she is on the hero's journey and her dark night of soul must come in the middle portion of the trilogy EP8. Her world will be turned upside down or the way she views the world, hopefully by seeing Kylo's POV and what he has went through.

In ESB the world being turned upside down for Luke is finding out that Vadar is his father, this is foreshadowed by Luke literally being upside down




And of course he experiences the dark night of the soul in the cave



So for Rey, seeing herself for who she really is Lineage wise, and hero's journey wise, and having her perspective changed should be what we see in EP8. Or I hope so.
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