The case against Rey Solo

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The case against Rey Solo

Post by CienaRee on Sat 20 Aug - 17:23

Hey,I wasn't sure whether a new thread was needed or not but since I've seen some Reylo fans(not on this thread but on places like tumblr,etc) worry over the possibility of Rey Solo happening despite the fact that it's been debunked  because of the ''leak''that was recently released I thought this topic deserved its own separate thread where we can discuss  why Rey Solo makes no sense in the story that they've established in TFA.It also might be helpful to those memebers who are new to these boards and weren't here from the beggining when Rey Solo/Reywalker theroies were very going strong.

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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Kyla Ren on Sat 20 Aug - 18:04

@CienaRee wrote:Hey,I wasn't sure whether a new thread was needed or not but since I've seen some Reylo fans(not on this thread but on places like tumblr,etc) worry over the possibility of Rey Solo happening despite the fact that it's been debunked  because of the ''leak''that was recently released I thought this topic deserved its own separate thread where we can discuss  why Rey Solo makes no sense in the story that they've established in TFA.It also might be helpful to those memebers who are new to these boards and weren't here from the beggining when Rey Solo/Reywalker theroies were very going strong.
@CienaRee

Well, I guess JJ's "mystery box" left a lot of people thinking Rey could be just about anybody's daughter.  But if people are really concerned that Rey might be a Solo because of that leak, just tell them watch this video where Daisy Ridley debunks it:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFaKca16dVo

As far as proof from TFA itself goes, well, it never really says one way or another, of course, but I really think that if she were a Solo that Kylo and Leia at the very least would probably have picked up on it and maybe even Han and Maz, too.  And other than Rey having skill flying and fixing the Millennium Falcon, which I don't really think is evidence of her being a Solo, I don't think there was anything in the movie to indicate that Han and Leia were her parents.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Darth Rowan on Sat 20 Aug - 18:27

You know, I can understand when some fans cling to the idea of Reywalker. It's not outside of the realm of (very convoluted and trite) possibility, although the story I saw in TFA points away from that outcome. But Rey SOLO is just mind boggling to me.

People might say that Pablo Hidalgo is lying when he says Rey didn't have her memory messed with, or that Daisy Ridley is lying when she debunked Rey Solo (although consider that JJ said he learned from the Khan debacle in Star Trek that outright lying to fans is not a good idea). I very much doubt that they'd outright lie, but forget about what the production says; what does the actual story say?

So Han met his daughter and just continued to pretend that he didn't know her? And then on Takodana and SK Base was visibly moved to see his son Ben, but only behaved like an affectionately cranky boss with his daughter Rey throughout the movie? And talked to Leia about her hair style and his jacket instead of telling her "OMYGAD I FOUND OUR BABY GIRL!"
And Leia knew Rey was her daughter but said to Finn "Han told me about your friend, but...I'm sorry we're just going to leave her to rot in the Death Star 3 because we have important galactic matters to address over here."



Han and Leia would have to be coldhearted monsters for that plot scenario to work out.

I know it's still early days for this trilogy and we are worried about all the possibilities that would take this story down a horrible path we cannot follow (because if Kylo and Rey are siblings after those looks, the bridal carry and essentially having Force foreplay - O_O) but imo this is just beyond unlikely.

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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by snufkin on Sat 20 Aug - 18:50

I remember seeing the initial news stories which mentioned that Rey was probably Han and Leia's kid. But when I actually saw TFA, the fact that she was by herself since the age of 5 and believed that her family were going to return for her, the only thought I had about her was that she was an orphan and in denial about her parents being disappeared/murdered. Once the Force Powers part of her story kicked in and a certain member of the Solo family started making googly-eyes at her, the only conclusion I came to is that her abandonment had to do with whatever big evil plan Snoke was up to. But it never occurred to me that was either Luke or Leia's kid. The only reason I've ever entertained the thought was all of the online speculation that she "had" to be a blood relative and thinking that the ST would continue to be faithful to the original trilogy and established fanbase. But the more I've spent time here with people looking at how the film was put together and learning about Kathleen Kennedy's taking over leadership, the comments about them wanting to subvert tropes, and how the story group has become more predominantly female, the more I'm comfortable with the final conclusion that she'll eventually become a Solo through marriage.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by nonesuch on Sat 20 Aug - 19:15

Let me count the ways:

- Rey has not had her memories tampered with (as per Pablo on Twitter), but knows of Han Solo as a smuggler and displays absolutely no recognition of him after meeting and spending considerable time with him.
- Maz tells Rey her family are never coming back, implying they are dead and gone. Han comes back for her and she meets Leia and Kylo, seemingly eliminating them as family candidates.
- Han and Leia have multiple conversations where they discuss their family, and their lost son in particular. Nowhere is a lost daughter ever referred to, or even implied.
- Kylo, despite having been driven to the dark side by grief over his sister's disappearance/'death', does not recognise her as such despite digging deep into her mind and their both being strong in the Force.
- Leia, despite being able to sense her husband and son across the vast reaches of space, cannot sense her own acutely Force sensitive daughter.
- Han and (especially) Leia seem only minimally interested in saving their potential daughter from Starkiller Base.
- (In Bloodline) Despite spending a novel thinking about her familial legacy and bloodline, Leia never recalls her lost daughter (despite repeatedly recalling her absent son).

etc., etc. I could go on, but that will do for now.


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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by snufkin on Sat 20 Aug - 19:27

@nonesuch wrote:Let me count the ways:

- Rey has not had her memories tampered with (as per Pablo on Twitter), but knows of Han Solo as a smuggler and displays absolutely no recognition of him after meeting and spending considerable time with him.
- Maz tells Rey her family are never coming back, implying they are dead and gone. Han comes back for her and she meets Leia and Kylo, seemingly eliminating them as family candidates.
- Han and Leia have multiple conversations where they discuss their family, and their lost son in particular. Nowhere is a lost daughter ever referred to.
- Kylo, despite having been driven to the dark side by grief over his sister's disappearance/'death', does not recognise her as such despite digging deep into her mind.
- Leia, despite being able to sense her husband and son across the vast reaches of space, cannot sense her own acutely Force sensitive daughter.
- Han and (especially) Leia seem only minimally interested in saving their potential daughter from Starkiller Base.
[b]- (In Bloodline) Despite spending a novel thinking about her familial legacy and bloodline, Leia never recalls her lost daughter (despite repeatedly recalling her absent son).

etc., etc. I could go on, but that will do for now.
@nonesuch

I could easily fall for the 'tampered memory' argument because suppressed/fake consciousness is such a classic trope in science fiction, especially Phillip K. D ick and even Ray Bradbury (I think it was the Martian Chronicles, but it's been a really long time since I read that book). The contemporary version of Doctor Who is a big user and abuser (more Stephen Moffat than Russell T. Davies) of this trope and variations about clues to a mystery being hidden in somebody's memory or consciousness. Which I could maybe see with Rey's connection to whatever the original Jedi temple/Snoke's big evil plan storyline is going to go, because Ren chased after her because the map literally was in her memory as the image she used to try to fall asleep to. But otherwise Star Wars is a different genre creature, more like classic fantasy than science fiction.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Darth Dementor on Sat 20 Aug - 20:20

@nonesuch wrote:Let me count the ways:

- Rey has not had her memories tampered with (as per Pablo on Twitter), but knows of Han Solo as a smuggler and displays absolutely no recognition of him after meeting and spending considerable time with him.
- Maz tells Rey her family are never coming back, implying they are dead and gone. Han comes back for her and she meets Leia and Kylo, seemingly eliminating them as family candidates.
- Han and Leia have multiple conversations where they discuss their family, and their lost son in particular. Nowhere is a lost daughter ever referred to, or even implied.
- Kylo, despite having been driven to the dark side by grief over his sister's disappearance/'death', does not recognise her as such despite digging deep into her mind and their both being strong in the Force.
- Leia, despite being able to sense her husband and son across the vast reaches of space, cannot sense her own acutely Force sensitive daughter.
- Han and (especially) Leia seem only minimally interested in saving their potential daughter from Starkiller Base.
- (In Bloodline) Despite spending a novel thinking about her familial legacy and bloodline, Leia never recalls her lost daughter (despite repeatedly recalling her absent son).

etc., etc. I could go on, but that will do for now.
@nonesuch

Well there's your first mistake NS; you can't use logic and common sense to male her a Skywalker or Solo. Otherwise it all falls apart. I mean c'mon get with the program here.

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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by WhatGirl on Sat 20 Aug - 20:27

I would like to see the case FOR Rey Solo. I have yet to hear of one, aside from notable anti-Reylo folks saying they like it. But then they seem willing to embrace any possibility of Rey and Kylo being related.

Also, I really doubt Maz knows anything about Rey's origins. She is able to see the truth of what other people know about themselves by looking into their eyes. Rey knew, deep down, that her family was never coming back - that is what Maz saw in her eyes, and that's why she was able to tell her so.

So far, the strongest "argument" seems to be that all of the opposing evidence are lies meant to distract from the incredible plot twist and unquestionable truth that is Rey Solo/Skywalker. In order for this "theory" to have any merit, we are to assume that the movie itself is wrong and everyone associated with it is lying. That is the definition of delusional right there.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by IoJovi on Sat 20 Aug - 20:50

My husband came out a Rey Soloist on his first viewing.  The reason?  Han and Rey finishing each others' sentences and the fact that Chewie likes Rey.  Nothing deep or earth shattering.  I think the majority of the GA is the same way.  Once you dive deep though and look at the real evidence (from Daisy's and Pablo's comments to Bloodlines showing not one mention about a long lost daughter), most people find it can never happen.

And let's not even mention the stolen glances between both Rey and Kylo.  Not everyone picked up on it, but dammit if they're brother and sister that's extremely awkward!!!!

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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Sat 20 Aug - 21:15

@IoJovi The sad thing is that some fans actually believe that the accidental brother/sister incest is Star Wars tradition. Shocked I've genuinely seen some people argue this as if Luke and Leia making out as brother and sister was planned all along!
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by IoJovi on Sat 20 Aug - 21:18

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:@IoJovi The sad thing is that some fans actually believe that the accidental brother/sister incest is Star Wars tradition. Shocked I've genuinely seen some people argue this as if Luke and Leia making out as brother and sister was planned all along!
@Mrs Ben Solo

Sadly, this was my husband's argument as well when I asked him about the unsibling-like glances they were giving each other. I did respond that Leia only kissed Luke to make Han jealous, and I never saw any actual attraction between them, unlike Ren and Rey.

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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Helix on Sat 20 Aug - 21:22

Luke/Leia came off to me like Rey/Finn did. Fluff, if romantic it would be tame and safe, but ultimately not very interesting. Ignoring the Incest reveal, of course. Razz
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by nonesuch on Sat 20 Aug - 21:44

@WhatGirl wrote:I would like to see the case FOR Rey Solo. I have yet to hear of one, aside from notable anti-Reylo folks saying they like it. But then they seem willing to embrace any possibility of Rey and Kylo being related.

Also, I really doubt Maz knows anything about Rey's origins. She is able to see the truth of what other people know about themselves by looking into their eyes. Rey knew, deep down, that her family was never coming back - that is what Maz saw in her eyes, and that's why she was able to tell her so.

So far, the strongest "argument" seems to be that all of the opposing evidence are lies meant to distract from the incredible plot twist and unquestionable truth that is Rey Solo/Skywalker. In order for this "theory" to have any merit, we are to assume that the movie itself is wrong and everyone associated with it is lying. That is the definition of delusional right there.
@WhatGirl

This is the Rey Solo bible:

https://creators.co/@brehalan/4016021

To be completely fair, it is extremely thorough and has real substance - it is a labour of love and is far from thrown together. However, it is also a catalogue of excuses and convoluted workarounds that basically ask you to believe that the film and the people involved with making it have been actively lying to us/spinning half truths to maintain the mystery (much of it is built on the idea that they want to recapture the magic of the shocking familial ties of the OT, presumably including the magic of erotically charged scenes between secret siblings).


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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by WhatGirl on Sat 20 Aug - 21:46

@nonesuch wrote:
@WhatGirl wrote:I would like to see the case FOR Rey Solo. I have yet to hear of one, aside from notable anti-Reylo folks saying they like it. But then they seem willing to embrace any possibility of Rey and Kylo being related.

Also, I really doubt Maz knows anything about Rey's origins. She is able to see the truth of what other people know about themselves by looking into their eyes. Rey knew, deep down, that her family was never coming back - that is what Maz saw in her eyes, and that's why she was able to tell her so.

So far, the strongest "argument" seems to be that all of the opposing evidence are lies meant to distract from the incredible plot twist and unquestionable truth that is Rey Solo/Skywalker. In order for this "theory" to have any merit, we are to assume that the movie itself is wrong and everyone associated with it is lying. That is the definition of delusional right there.
@WhatGirl

This is the Rey Solo bible:

https://creators.co/@brehalan/4016021

To be completely fair, it is extremely thorough and has real substance - it is a labour of love and is far from thrown together. However, it is also a catalogue of excuses and convoluted workarounds that basically ask you to believe that the film and the people involved with making it have been actively lying to us/spinning half truths to maintain the mystery (much of it is built on the idea that they want to recapture the magic of the shocking familial ties of the OT).
@nonesuch

Thanks for the link. I'll take off my Reylo goggles for a few and give it a read.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Mana on Sat 20 Aug - 21:50

wow...if Rey Solo is the "I am your father" moment they're expecting, then they are really the most unimaginative creatures alive. The writers are better than that. Aside from making absolutely no sense in the context of TFA (because the movie is the most important thing), it would truly make for a really cheap reveal that would destroy whats left of Han and Leia as parents who managed to screw up with both kids, and its NOT something that will leave people talking for decades to come like Vader's reveal.

In short, that Rey Solo meta is just a bunch of convoluted ideas based on wishful thinking. Han and Leia never mention a daughter because they never had one. If they did, her story would not have started out in Jakku the way it did, just as it wouldn't have if she were meant to be Luke's daughter.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Sacrebleu on Sat 20 Aug - 21:57

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:@IoJovi The sad thing is that some fans actually believe that the accidental brother/sister incest is Star Wars tradition. Shocked I've genuinely seen some people argue this as if Luke and Leia making out as brother and sister was planned all along!
@Mrs Ben Solo

Yeah, a male relative I was discussing this with said they could well be brother and sister because insinuating possible incest would be just one more thing TFA copied from the OT. Shocked
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by CienaRee on Sat 20 Aug - 22:11

@Sacrebleu wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:@IoJovi The sad thing is that some fans actually believe that the accidental brother/sister incest is Star Wars tradition. Shocked I've genuinely seen some people argue this as if Luke and Leia making out as brother and sister was planned all along!
@Mrs Ben Solo

Yeah, a male relative I was discussing this with said they could well be brother and sister because insinuating possible incest would be just one more thing TFA copied from the OT. Shocked
@Sacrebleu
What's funny is that the anti deem Reylo as ridicilious because it's not in the spirit of SW yet they're clearly influenced by shows like GOT judging from their theories.

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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Sacrebleu on Sat 20 Aug - 22:38

@CienaRee wrote:What's funny is that the anti deem Reylo as ridicilious because it's not in the spirit of SW yet they're clearly influenced by shows like GOT judging from their theories.
@CienaRee

Our conversation centered on why the filmmakers had decided to go with Kylo as the only Skywalker grandchild and yet make him a villain.  To me that indicated they have big plans for his character and those plans don't involve ignominious death without heirs.  My cousin said that Rey could still be a Skywalker or a Solo.  I said if they're cousins J.J. Abrams is a leetle kinky (at least from an American perspective) and if they're siblings Abrams is really kinky.  Embarassed
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Darth Rowan on Sat 20 Aug - 22:47

@IoJovi wrote:My husband came out a Rey Soloist on his first viewing.  The reason?  Han and Rey finishing each others' sentences and the fact that Chewie likes Rey.  Nothing deep or earth shattering.  I think the majority of the GA is the same way.  Once you dive deep though and look at the real evidence (from Daisy's and Pablo's comments to Bloodlines showing not one mention about a long lost daughter), most people find it can never happen.

@IoJovi, that's a good point. The way I see it whatever the GA says is fine. Actual question from the GA: "Why didn't Hux and Kylo just press the reset button on BB-8 to get him to give up the map?" Yeah, OK. Must be one of those pesky TFA plot holes. Rolling Eyes

But when we spend hours upon hours analyzing this story and the SW saga at large and conclude that Rey must be a Solo...



Though to each their own, sometimes we see exactly what we want to see. And I don't blame anyone for worrying about this. Bottom line, nothing is written in stone and we can't be sure of anything.

I for one fully support Rey ending up a Solo - after they sign the marriage papers and before they cut the cake - hopefully with a lightsaber. XD

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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by WhatGirl on Sat 20 Aug - 23:20

@Sacrebleu wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:@IoJovi The sad thing is that some fans actually believe that the accidental brother/sister incest is Star Wars tradition. Shocked I've genuinely seen some people argue this as if Luke and Leia making out as brother and sister was planned all along!
@Mrs Ben Solo

Yeah, a male relative I was discussing this with said they could well be brother and sister because insinuating possible incest would be just one more thing TFA copied from the OT. Shocked
@Sacrebleu

That would be a hell of a lot of effort just to rip off the accidental, unplanned incest from the older films.

The lighting, angles, and makeup were all done to fully accentuate the physical attractiveness of Kylo and Rey when and ONLY when they shared scenes together. There is literally nobody else in the room to impress when this is happening - it is the two of them, alone together, done to the nines (as far as Star Wars goes) and exhibiting signs of being sexually attracted to each other.

Finn was not there to be made jealous, as Han was when Leia kissed Luke. Finn has NO idea what's going on between them and thinks they're just enemies with nothing more to it - that's no accident, he's been specifically excluded. Kylo and Rey's scenes are filmed as something intimate and forbidden that neither are willing to talk about or admit to. Kylo outright denies the compassion he feels for her when Snoke calls him out on it. Rey refuses to discuss it altogether when asked about what happened.

Therefore an incest reveal would be utterly pointless, useless, and nonsensical. It adds nothing of substance, whereas Luke/Leia sort of did, in the sense that it added an extra level of tension between her and Han. The kiss was done blatantly with zero buildup or romance to it, and she looked Han right in the eye afterward as though daring him to say or do something. This made it clear to me that the kiss was not about having feelings for Luke - and that it in fact had very little to do with Luke at all.

Kylo and Rey on the other hand are discreet - with Kylo in denial, and Rey simply not opening up to anybody about it. How could they, when they're on opposite sides of a war and are expected to hate each other? Yet it all comes through in the subtext through stolen glances, sweating, and ragged breathing that simply doesn't happen to them when they're separated. Apart, the two characters are effectively stripped of their sexuality, it is only emphasized when they're together. This is neither an accident nor a purposeful misdirect.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Mana on Sat 20 Aug - 23:27

Come one, the Luke/Leia comparison is ridiculous. Luke and Liea were sugary sweet and done for laughs and ultimately ended up not funny at all after the sister reveal...it was Lucasfilm's biggest embarrassment to date, something they would rather forget than try to recreate.
Rey and Kylo are way too passionate in their interactions, with way too much subtext. The film makers can't turn around and say "gotcha!" with that one.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Sat 20 Aug - 23:32

You make some excellent points @WhatGirl I mean, Kylo is sex on legs to me whatever scene he's in, lol, but the interrogation scene was another level of pretty! Rey alternates between being a scruffy scrapper and a cute girl. The only time she exhibits any kind of sexuality is in her scenes with Kylo. It's not there with Finn or any other character she shares screen time with.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by WhatGirl on Sat 20 Aug - 23:59

@Mrs Ben Solo Thanks! And yeah, they look like totally different people depending on who they're with! (I agree that Kylo is always sexy, and yes it's heightened to an incredible degree when he's sharing a scene with Rey.)

Kylo with Snoke:


Rey with Han:


Kylo with Rey:


But yeah, it's all a ruse to lead us away from the shocking reveal of them being siblings. Razz
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Saracene on Sun 21 Aug - 0:07

Apart from things already mentioned, you generally wouldn't stage a dramatic scene where the heroine watches her brother kill their father while being completely unaware of what she is watching. Or spend a movie bonding with her real long-lost father only to realise that fact after his death. This sort of stuff works best when everyone knows who they are to each other.
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Re: The case against Rey Solo

Post by Darth Dementor on Sun 21 Aug - 0:10

@Darth Rowan wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:My husband came out a Rey Soloist on his first viewing.  The reason?  Han and Rey finishing each others' sentences and the fact that Chewie likes Rey.  Nothing deep or earth shattering.  I think the majority of the GA is the same way.  Once you dive deep though and look at the real evidence (from Daisy's and Pablo's comments to Bloodlines showing not one mention about a long lost daughter), most people find it can never happen.

@IoJovi, that's a good point. The way I see it whatever the GA says is fine. Actual question from the GA: "Why didn't Hux and Kylo just press the reset button on BB-8 to get him to give up the map?" Yeah, OK. Must be one of those pesky TFA plot holes. Rolling Eyes

But when we spend hours upon hours analyzing this story and the SW saga at large and conclude that Rey must be a Solo...



Though to each their own, sometimes we see exactly what we want to see. And I don't blame anyone for worrying about this. Bottom line, nothing is written in stone and we can't be sure of anything.

I for one fully support Rey ending up a Solo - after they sign the marriage papers and before they cut the cake - hopefully with a lightsaber. XD
@Darth Rowan  
   




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