ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 10 Jan 2017, 4:21 am

One additional thing I forgot with ring comp, all these events occur exactly at the 45 minute run,  for the middle & last episode of each trilogy, 4+5 = 9  the time for  human gestation ( birth) ,

Just look at these set of frames from OT & PT... In a 5 minute period you will see,

Qui Gon, the Jedi who learned to maintain his force body or life beyond death. ( Saint Qui Gon Jinn)
Palps, telling the story of life produced by the dark side of the force.
Obi Wan, observing artificially produced life ( Jango Clones) on Kamino
Anakin and Padme's romantic interlude on Naboo, which will produce the life of Luke & Leia
Han & Leia romantic interlude on MF inside an asteroid, which will produce the life of Ben Solo.
Obi & Luke in Mos Eisely Cantina, showing the plethora and variety of life in the universe
Luke expressing to Obi's Force Ghost that there is still light & life in Anakin and that he can't kill him...( Faith)




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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by panki on Tue 10 Jan 2017, 4:38 am

@spacebaby45678

I think I have already given you many examples, explanations and even pictoral representations as to how the opera scene has nothing to do with sperm...and is the foreshadowing of Vader.... in case you didn't read my posts (I have this feeling you haven't), let me recap:

1. In the opera scene of ROTS, Palpatine talks about Plageuis and sith powers.

2. Music Playing for scene- Palpatine's teachings- definitely not birds and bees related....he is teaching him about the dark side and its powers.

3. Image on the background- Vader's mask.....near identical to the vision Anakin gets during the Mortis trilogy, again foreshadowing his fall to the dark side.

The interpretation of the Squid Lake scene being sperm is a non-LF book and hence not canon. It cannot be applied here as if it were canon.

A scene has to be taken as a whole i.e. the image, the dialogue and the music... in the opera scene, all these three things point to Anakin turning to the dark side and becoming Vader.

Going by your logic, Obi-wan on Kamino and clones could foreshadow Rey being a Kenobi clone...and the waters around Kamino could be the tank in which she was grown...so this actually strengthens my assertion that Rey can only be Obi-wan's descendant by cloning, not by some hidden romance.






Also, regarding your other assertions:

1. Qui Gon did not learn to retain his force body after death.....he remained a voice only....the two examples of retaining one's force body after death are Yoda and Obi-wan before Anakin.

2. Palps talked about the sith being able to cheat death and prolong life in the opera scene...... the tragedy of Darth Plagueis is that he learned to save the life of his loved ones- the irony is that he could not save his own life.

3. I have dealt with the Obi-wan and cloning point above already.

4. I agree with your point about Anakin and Padme....except the twins were conceived after Anakin and Padme married.

5. Han and Leia's asteroid interlude didn't produce Ben.....that happened much later.....years later actually....if Ben were conceived in the asteroid, I would have agreed with you...but they had to get Han and Leia married to produce Ben.

6. The Mos Eisley Cantina, Coruscant underworld in episode 2, etc show a variety of species but the thing that is common to them is that they are the underworld scum of the galaxy....the Mos Eisley Catina is considered a hive of scum and villainy (Obi-wan's exact words)......so I wouldn't take it to represent the people of the galaxy...unless the galaxy only has bad people and death stick dealers.

6. I agree with your point regarding Luke...but I don't see it connecting to any of the other above points.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Gemini on Tue 10 Jan 2017, 11:30 am

I'm just totally lost lol
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by snufkin on Tue 10 Jan 2017, 12:02 pm

@Gemini wrote:I'm just totally lost lol
@Gemini

No kidding, at some point over the past 2 days this discussion veered off into Reddit territory. And I'd like to think that I'm a pretty capable person when it comes to deciphering highly technical jargon, but none of this makes sense. Can we all agree to disagree until proven otherwise (I only made my initial response to share something cool I noticed with one person who expressed interest) and focus on the fact that she's most likely not Luke's kid?
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 8:00 am

When you compare ANH to TFA ....

In ANH Obi told Luke a partial truth to protect him, Anakin was a Jedi Knight, The best Star Pilot in the Galaxy, and a good friend...



In TFA Maz tells Rey that whomever she is waiting for is never coming back, and to look ahead, I think the twist for Rey is that at least one of her parents is alive and it is not Luke....most are assuming her parents are dead.




So in ESB Luke has a relavatory moment, the truth, "I am your father" moment.



This literally turns lukes beliefs and world upside down...




So the question is what would be shocking and revealing to Rey in Episode 8?

1. Luke to Rey , " I am you father"


Not shocking, everyone is expecting it, would this turn Rey's world upside down?



2. Emperor Palpatine is your Grandfather? And you too Rey are inherently evil, hence that is why you where dropped off on Jakku and you won't be trained to be a Jedi...



Why would this turn Rey's world upside? Even if she is a Palpatine she already made all the right choices in TFA, why knowing you are a Palpatine would change this at all...finding out Darth Vader was his father never changed Luke into a villain or bad character...




3.  Obi Wan is your Grandfather




Still this is nothing that would turn Rey's world upside down.


4. You are a Random nobody...and you are about to be the hero of this trilogy ... again not shocking being heroic comes naturally to Rey.. I don't think this will turn Rey's world upside down





What would be shocking and turn Rey's world upside down? It has to be a 180 degree reversal from her present conditions.

1. Her parents are not dead they are alive
2. Rey is rich or royalty
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 6:47 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
What would be shocking and turn Rey's world upside down? It has to be a 180 degree reversal from her present conditions.

1. Her parents are not dead they are alive
2. Rey is rich or royalty
@spacebaby45678

In this case, they'd probably have to be Laura Dern and BDT - unless, of course, we won't meet them until IX...
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 7:46 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
What would be shocking and turn Rey's world upside down? It has to be a 180 degree reversal from her present conditions.

1. Her parents are not dead they are alive
2. Rey is rich or royalty
@spacebaby45678

In this case, they'd probably have to be Laura Dern and BDT - unless, of course, we won't meet them until IX...
@Darth Dingbat

I would agree, that maybe 1 or both of them could be her parent/parents... and all the "rich" and "royal" scenes of Dubrovnik bust have something to do with Rey, it is a complete opposite enviornment of Jakku and Ach to..
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 10:51 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
What would be shocking and turn Rey's world upside down? It has to be a 180 degree reversal from her present conditions.

1. Her parents are not dead they are alive
2. Rey is rich or royalty
@spacebaby45678

In this case, they'd probably have to be Laura Dern and BDT - unless, of course, we won't meet them until IX...
@Darth Dingbat

I would agree, that maybe 1 or both of them could be her parent/parents... and all the "rich" and "royal" scenes of Dubrovnik bust have something to do with Rey, it is a complete opposite enviornment of Jakku and Ach to..
@spacebaby45678

That's true. But then, you know, I would say that - I've believed all along that Rey is a lost princess and that the Dubrovnik planet has something to do with her. rabbit

Both Dern and BDT are certainly the right age to be Rey's parents. And I mean, if those two had a child, said child would probably look something like Rey.

But, depending on how closely they adhere to fairytale motifs, I wouldn't dismiss the wicked stepmother scenario either.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 10:53 am

(And I must say that Laura Dern could easily pass for Satine's daughter Wink But I'm not sure how that would match age-wise.)
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 11:30 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
What would be shocking and turn Rey's world upside down? It has to be a 180 degree reversal from her present conditions.

1. Her parents are not dead they are alive
2. Rey is rich or royalty
@spacebaby45678

In this case, they'd probably have to be Laura Dern and BDT - unless, of course, we won't meet them until IX...
@Darth Dingbat

I would agree, that maybe 1 or both of them could be her parent/parents... and all the "rich" and "royal" scenes of Dubrovnik bust have something to do with Rey, it is a complete opposite enviornment of Jakku and Ach to..
@spacebaby45678

That's true. But then, you know, I would say that - I've believed all along that Rey is a lost princess and that the Dubrovnik planet has something to do with her. rabbit

Both Dern and BDT are certainly the right age to be Rey's parents. And I mean, if those two had a child, said child would probably look something like Rey.

But, depending on how closely they adhere to fairytale motifs, I wouldn't dismiss the wicked stepmother scenario either.
@Darth Dingbat

Honestly, I am hoping for wicked stepmother... at this point anything that brings a female/mother dynamic in focus... yes you are way ahead on what Dubrovnik might mean. I had not given it much thought or maybe paying too much attention to the old spoilers about Kylo and Dubrovnik
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by panki on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 11:35 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
What would be shocking and turn Rey's world upside down? It has to be a 180 degree reversal from her present conditions.

1. Her parents are not dead they are alive
2. Rey is rich or royalty
@spacebaby45678

In this case, they'd probably have to be Laura Dern and BDT - unless, of course, we won't meet them until IX...
@Darth Dingbat

Evaan Verlaine is the ruler of the Alderaan system at the moment and she looks like a carbon copy of Laura Dern and her age matches as well (The creator of the character described her as tall, blonde haired and blue eyed- Laura Dern is 179 cm tall, has blue eyes and blonde hair).... if Rey is her daughter, she would be a princess.... that would put an interesting spin on her relationship with Kylo as well. It also would explain the rebel pilot doll and her attachment to the rebel pilot helmet she found.




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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Rogue Rey on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 12:08 pm

If Rey were a lost Princess it would certainly be a contrast to the life she has experienced to that point (minus those first few years she either can't remember or chooses not to - like suppressed memories).  Enough to make someone quite angry I'd say.

EDIT: Also a thought on what Maz said to Rey about 'whoever you are waiting for they're never coming back' doesn't that imply that Maz knows the fate of Rey's parents? For her to know that they're never coming back surely means she knows what happened to them? I know Maz is FS ( Question ) but it's a big claim if she doesn't actually know, right?
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by panki on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 9:53 pm

Let me create more confusion regarding Rey's lineage... here is an image from the short story in #170 of SW Insider....check out the lady's hairstyle (she is a journalist and isn't related to any of the OT or PT characters) Razz


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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 9:58 pm

@panki wrote:Let me create more confusion regarding Rey's lineage... here is an image from the short story in #170 of SW Insider....check out the lady's hairstyle (she is a journalist and isn't related to any of the OT or PT characters) Razz

@panki

Interesting. What planet is she from?
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by panki on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 10:03 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@panki wrote:Let me create more confusion regarding Rey's lineage... here is an image from the short story in #170 of SW Insider....check out the lady's hairstyle (she is a journalist and isn't related to any of the OT or PT characters) Razz

@panki

Interesting. What planet is she from?
@ISeeAnIsland

Not sure about the planet she is from but her name is Calliope Drouth (not much info available about her as yet).....Calliope was the lover of both Mars and Apollo in Greek mythology and the mother of Orpheus...so the choice of name is interesting.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 10:45 pm

Interesting,

These were my random thoughts last August 2016  on the Rey Kenobi files

http://reylo.skyforum.net/t202p550-the-rey-kenobi-files#79915

Random thoughts...

"Both of my boys in the midst of Fiery hell.... If Reylo is like Hades & Persephone then Rey & Orson must be Orpheus & Eurydice... While the story of Orpheus & Eurydice is also one of lovers and not Father & Daughter, I am aware that  Persephone is never left in hell permanently she gets to return to the surface for a time in spring, but Eurydice is left permanently because Orpheus was week, he looked back. Rey like Eurydice  begins her life among the dead on Jakku, dead human corpses and crashed broken ruins of the Empire.

The ancient legend of Orpheus and Eurydice concerns the fateful love of Orpheus of Thrace, son of Apollo and the muse Calliope, for the beautiful Eurydice (from Eurudike, "she whose justice extends widely")

Other ancient writers treated Orpheus' visit to the underworld more negatively. According to Phaedrus in Plato's Symposium,[3] the infernal deities only "presented an apparition" of Eurydice to him. Plato's representation of Orpheus is in fact that of a coward; instead of choosing to die in order to be with his love, he mocked the deities in an attempt to visit Hades, to get her back alive. As his love was not "true" — meaning that he was not willing to die for it — he was punished by the deities, first by giving him only the apparition of his former wife in the underworld and then by having him killed by women
.
Apollo then advised his son to descend to Hades and see his wife. Any other mortal would have died, but Orpheus, protected by the gods, went to Hades and arrived at the infamous Stygian realm, passing by ghosts and souls of people unknown. He also managed to charm Cerberus, the monster known to have three heads. Orpheus presented himself in front of the god of the Underworld Hades (Pluto) and his wife Persephone.

Orpheus played his lyre, melting even Hades' cold heart. Hades told Orpheus that he could take Eurydice with him but under one condition; Eurydice would follow him while walking out to the light from the caves of the Underworld, but he should not look at her before coming out to the light because he would lose her forever. If Orpheus was patient enough he would have Eurydice as a normal woman again by his side.


Orpheus was delighted; he thanked the gods and left to ascend to the world. He was trying to hear Eurydice’s steps, but he could not hear anything and he started believing that the gods had fooled him. Of course Eurydice was behind him, but as a shadow, waiting to come to light to become a full woman again. Only a few feet away from the exit, Orpheus lost his faith and turned to see; Eurydice was behind him, but her shadow was whisked back among the dead. Eurydice was gone forever.


Orpheus tried to return to the Underworld but a man cannot enter the realm of Hades twice while alive. According to various versions of the myth, Orpheus started playing a mourning song with his lyre, calling for death so that he could be united with Eurydice forever. Orpheus is ultimately killed either by beasts tearing him apart, or by the Maenads, in a frenzied mood. According to another version, Zeus decided to strike him with lightning knowing Orpheus would reveal the secrets of the Underworld to humans


So ultimately Orpheus dies and cannot rescue Eurydice... a tragedy. So my random thoughts on the subject are that Rey is Eurydice, her father is Orpheus...more on Rey's mom another time."

So Did Orson hit that? Yup, Orson is definitely a Playboy in catalyst.

Is this Rey's father? Son of Orson & Calliope



LOL just kidding but God I hope not...

The main reason? weather Rey is a Kenobi or not, making Rey's grandmother black with the current actress would be a major faux pas... LF will never hear the end of it.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Gemini on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 4:23 am

@panki wrote:Let me create more confusion regarding Rey's lineage... here is an image from the short story in #170 of SW Insider....check out the lady's hairstyle (she is a journalist and isn't related to any of the OT or PT characters) Razz

@panki

Is that krennic?

Ok this is weird.

I know he's not her dad right but....


Wtf


That's krennic checking out a woman with reys hair and ommmffgg wait

She was originally cast as mixed race girl

But wait

That dress

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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 4:45 am

Interesting find, @panki. The dress is rather reminiscent of Dubrovnik, too... I wonder if the three-bun hairstyle might be something that's popular on the Dubrovnik planet?

You know, this is something I've often thought about: the reveal itself. How would it happen?

- "Rey, I am your father/mother": okay, but how does anyone find out?
- "I knew your parents": okay, but how does anyone find out?
- "I found your parents in the Imperial Archives": okay Kylo, but how?

That's the question, isn't it? How do you connect a 20-year-old woman with some specific small child that went missing? That's difficult enough when there's only one planet full of people; let alone an entire galaxy.

So perhaps Kylo ("it is you") already knows that she's some specific child who was expected/prophesied to come, and the lightsaber has something to do with the prophecy? Like in the Jedi Prince series where it was prophesied that somebody wearing Darth Vader's glove will be the heir to the Empire.

But I think Rey's distinctive hairstyle will have something to do with the reveal, because the vision showed us that she's had the same hair since childhood. For instance, it could be that the hairstyle is popular on the Dubrovnik planet - Finn sees someone from behind, goes "Rey?", but it turns out to be some stranger. And then there are others with the same hair. Something like that would heighten the mystery but at the same time narrow it down to a specific planet and/or set of people.

Or - and this is an idea I've had for a while now - Finn could see the portrait of someone who looks like the spitting image of Rey (which would turn out to be Rey's dead mother).

So, in the "parents are alive" scenario, the parents could find out that the girl is still alive and send someone to find her. Hard to come up with much drama in that, though, unless it's a repeat of the Vader scenario that the parent wants the child (at least for the large part) for power.

In the "wicked stepmother" scenario, the stepmother could send someone to hunt her down.

In the "wicked parents trying to avert a prophecy" scenario, they could send someone to ensure she never returns.

Either way, the audience needs to find out who Rey is - but the question is, which character(s) find it out first? Rey? Kylo? Luke? Snoke? Finn? The parents themselves?
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 4:51 am

To add: what would be most compatible with Maz's "whoever you're waiting for isn't coming back... the belonging you seek is ahead of you" is probably that the parents are alive but don't want her back.

(Or dead, of course, but that's boring Wink)
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 5:31 am

I like one or more of her parents/step parent are alive and don't want her back scenario.

Could Orson Krennic be Obi's brother? Sure. Could Rey be Obi's great niece? Sure... Who knows how this story shakes out.

Honestly, I am loosing faith with LF abilities/sensitivities/political correctness, please LF don't make Rey's sucky cowardly parent/parents  mixed race... and her "Kenobi" lineage the thing that saves her... that is if she is a Kenobi at all...

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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 6:09 am

Pablo Hidalgo: “[How do you feel about Jett Lucas saying that TFA is a lot like Anastasia? Do you agree?] I think it’s more like A New Hope. Has anyone written about that? It’s a very insightful observation.” (January 10, 2017)


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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 6:16 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:I like one or more of her parents/step parent are alive and don't want her back scenario.

Could Orson Krennic be Obi's brother? Sure. Could Rey be Obi's great niece? Sure... Who knows how this story shakes out.

Honestly, I am loosing faith with LF abilities/sensitivities/political correctness, please LF don't make Rey's sucky cowardly parent/parents  mixed race... and her "Kenobi" lineage the thing that saves her... that is if she is a Kenobi at all...

@spacebaby45678

Didn't Pablo recently say that LF doesn't whitewash characters? (That was in reference to Sabine being Rey's mother, IIRC.) Even if their sensitivities are in doubt sometimes, I honestly don't think they'd try to pass Daisy as biracial.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 6:24 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:I like one or more of her parents/step parent are alive and don't want her back scenario.

Could Orson Krennic be Obi's brother? Sure. Could Rey be Obi's great niece? Sure... Who knows how this story shakes out.

Honestly, I am loosing faith with LF abilities/sensitivities/political correctness, please LF don't make Rey's sucky cowardly parent/parents  mixed race... and her "Kenobi" lineage the thing that saves her... that is if she is a Kenobi at all...

@spacebaby45678

Didn't Pablo recently say that LF doesn't whitewash characters? (That was in reference to Sabine being Rey's mother, IIRC.) Even if their sensitivities are in doubt sometimes, I honestly don't think they'd try to pass Daisy as biracial.
@Darth Dingbat

I hope not...
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 6:37 am

Speaking of Dubrovnik, royalty and hairstyles, I think the Dubrovnik people kind of underscore the connection between royalty/aristocracy and weird bun hairstyles, once again.







Actually, I think the lady in black on the right (in front of the green screen) might even be wearing three buns. Hard to say for sure, but if you zoom in on the last photo, that's what it looks like.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 6:40 am

The older man that lady in black is standing next to - I seem to remember someone somewhere recognised him as an actor, not just a random extra. Does anyone remember the name?
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