Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

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Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug - 19:15

Based on hints dropped in TFA and some of Rian Johnson's inspiration movies (Raiders of the Lost Ark, Letter Never Sent), I'm expecting something that's located within the first Jedi temple to be the main MacGuffin for the Ahch-To/Force plot in VIII. There's a reason why Luke has stayed there in exile for 5+ years, and I expect that whatever is there is also something that Kylo wants.

We've gotten no hints on what's actually located there, though, or how it would help the Luke's or Kylo's cause in any way.

So, in this drought of spoilers, I wanted to see what everyone thought might be located at the first Jedi temple. Speculate away!
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by vaderito on Tue 30 Aug - 19:19

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Based on hints dropped in TFA and some of Rian Johnson's inspiration movies (Raiders of the Lost Ark, Letter Never Sent), I'm expecting something that's located within the first Jedi temple to be the main MacGuffin for the Ahch-To/Force plot in VIII. There's a reason why Luke has stayed there in exile for 5+ years, and I expect that whatever is there is also something that Kylo wants.

We've gotten no hints on what's actually located there, though, or how it would help the Luke's or Kylo's cause in any way.

So, in this drought of spoilers, I wanted to see what everyone thought might be located at the first Jedi temple. Speculate away!
@ISeeAnIsland

The Force. I think that the Force is there. Like a source/center. That's why Rey and Kylo are called to it/by it. They are Adam and Eve.







I see it. I see an island.



That moment when the Force called them to the island.


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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by Maria Antonietta on Tue 30 Aug - 19:35

Maybe they'll find the answer to why sith and jedi are wrong. Too good or too evil won't get you anywhere.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug - 19:38

Maria Antonietta wrote:Maybe they'll find the answer to why sith and jedi are wrong. Too good or too evil won't get you anywhere.
@Maria Antonietta

My headcanon answer is something along this line--something to do with using both sides of the Force. I figure that it has to be something tangible that they can show in a movie, though. Plus, all of the hints from Rian, Pablo, and Bloodline, etc, about relic hunters/collectors...so I figure it has to be some sort of relic or artifact.

So maybe a holocron or something like that?

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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by vaderito on Tue 30 Aug - 19:45

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
Maria Antonietta wrote:Maybe they'll find the answer to why sith and jedi are wrong. Too good or too evil won't get you anywhere.
@Maria Antonietta

My headcanon answer is something along this line--something to do with using both sides of the Force. I figure that it has to be something tangible that they can show in a movie, though. Plus, all of the hints from Rian, Pablo, and Bloodline, etc, about relic hunters/collectors...so I figure it has to be some sort of relic or artifact.

So maybe a holocron or something like that?
@ISeeAnIsland

It's that big tree, guys. They'll go inside (it's so just too big to serve only as a decor, they'll go in) and there they'll find themselves, their destiny, etc. That's where Jungian sith is going to happen.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 30 Aug - 20:05

I literally can not rid my self of the headcanon my mind created when I heard of the Riders of the Lost Arc influence.
In other words: 10 commandments and its biblical reference. It is the old testament, the source and the precedent of the Christianity.

If take the New testament as something that was created later on, and more strict in understanding of dogmas and rules = which we can directly apply to the Jedi Order (as seen in PT).

(A little digression - I listened this afternoon on YT an interview with Kevin Smith (a director and a SW fan), who said that he spoke to Dave Filoni (Rebels creature) and who actually gave him a hint how to watch the prequels through the prism of the story of Jedi order failure. )

I think that First Jedi temple hides such artifact or relic or whatever which belonged to the first force users. And I won t be surprised at all - that the first force users explored both sides of the Force.
Furthermore I do believe that at one point there must have been a sort of schism between two sides. The Jedi order probably started to use only light side and from fear or whatever start to demonize the dark side. The result of the schism was the emergence and rise of the Siths, the natural Jedi enemies.

As well, I am pretty much sure that Luke Skywalker as the last jedi - while started to explore the jedi history and lore, probably did find something that did not understand in the right way (due to his limited jedi training and education given by Yoda and Obi Van - traditional jedis)

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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by vaderito on Tue 30 Aug - 20:31

@Darth_Awakened There was a schism in EU, that's how Jedaii split into Jedi and Sith. But I couldn't find anything about Jedi 10C. So perhaps they find 10C or they receive 10C. But, yes, I agree it's going to be something like that.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug - 20:35

Darth_Awakened wrote:I literally can not rid my self of the headcanon my mind created when I heard of the Riders of the Lost Arc influence.
In other words: 10 commandments and its biblical reference. It is the old testament, the source and the precedent of the Christianity.

If take the New testament as something that was created later on, and more strict in understanding of dogmas and rules = which we can directly apply to the Jedi Order (as seen in PT).

(A little digression - I listened this afternoon on YT an interview with Kevin Smith (a director and a SW fan), who said that he spoke to Dave Filoni (Rebels creature) and who actually gave him a hint how to watch the prequels through the prism of the story of Jedi order failure. )

I think that First Jedi temple hides such artifact or relic or whatever which belonged to the first force users. And I won t be surprised at all - that the first force users explored both sides of the Force.
Furthermore I do believe that at one point there must have been a sort of schism between two sides. The Jedi order probably started to use only light side and from fear or whatever start to demonize the dark side. The result of the schism was the emergence and rise of the Siths, the natural Jedi enemies.

As well, I am pretty much sure that Luke Skywalker as the last jedi - while started to explore the jedi history and lore, probably did find something that did not understand in the right way (due to his limited jedi training and education given by Yoda and Obi Van - traditional jedis)
@Darth_Awakened

vaderito wrote:@Darth_Awakened There was a schism in EU, that's how Jedaii split into Jedi and Sith. But I couldn't find anything about Jedi 10C. So perhaps they find 10C or they receive 10C. But, yes, I agree it's going to be something like that.
@vaderito

I think that the 10C idea would make a lot of sense.

My follow-up question: What would Kylo/Luke/Rey actually do with the Jedaii 10 commandments (or similar)?

I think this is partly why I'm fixated on the idea of it being some sort of relic or artifact... In my headcanon, whatever they find there is going to allow the people in possession of it to ultimately take down Snoke or something like that.


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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by vaderito on Tue 30 Aug - 20:41

@ISeeAnIsland Love will take down Snoke. It's a fairytale. Love took down Palpatine, will take down Snoke. Only romantic love this time cause Snoke underestimates it. So how artefact will work into it, whether love makes it work, we will find out. But it'll need rey and Kylo to make it work. Whatever they find will need 2 of them

Also, another possibility is that 10C said love/possession/attachment were allowed which is why someone hid it.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Tue 30 Aug - 20:41

I'm not sure there will be a physical relic in the temple. My personal feeling is that it will be something more like a fountain of knowledge or some kind of transcendental experience. Maybe it will be both. I'm not sure how I feel about there being a McGuffin that they're chasing after like the Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail. I would prefer it to be something that changes or challenges the way both Kylo, Rey and Luke see the force and their connection to it.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 30 Aug - 20:52

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

I think that the 10C idea would make a lot of sense.

My follow-up question: What would Kylo/Luke/Rey actually do with the Jedaii 10 commandments (or similar)?

I think this is partly why I'm fixated on the idea of it being some sort of relic or artifact... In my headcanon, whatever they find there is going to allow the people in possession of it to ultimately take down Snoke or something like that.

@ISeeAnIsland

The arc in the Raiders was thought by the nazis that it gives the power of invincibility.
I really do not think that they are going to use same theme in SW. And I also think that the military stuff is not in Kylo s mind (That s Hux and his troopers).
I would rather think that this artifact would be the help in understanding the true nature of the Force i.e. only both sides equally strong can bring the real balance. The future force users using both sides without any wish to suppress one or another. More spiritual quest.


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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by snufkin on Tue 30 Aug - 21:35

Like I said before, it'll be the Ikea test of their burgeoning relationship.  Otherwise, I'd rather go for something metaphysical/abstract being in there which the two of them together acts as the key for. Only because so many different movies have swiped inspiration from the Staff of Ra motif in Raiders (which is a great scene, still remember how exciting that moment was to me seeing it as a kid).



Actually if they did a scene like that with the two of them and it underlined the "Snoke is using you" and "having to work together for survival" part, that'd be pretty awesome.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug - 21:58

snufkin wrote:Like I said before, it'll be the Ikea test of their burgeoning relationship.  Otherwise, I'd rather go for something metaphysical/abstract being in there which the two of them together acts as the key for. Only because so many different movies have swiped inspiration from the Staff of Ra motif in Raiders (which is a great scene, still remember how exciting that moment was to me seeing it as a kid).



Actually if they did a scene like that with the two of them and it underlined the "Snoke is using you" and "having to work together for survival" part, that'd be pretty awesome.
@snufkin

I would LOVE a scene like that in VIII. I'll admit that I've wondered if part of the reason for Rey to have a staff as her weapon is for them to do some sort of "staff of Ra"-type callback in VIII.

And not that I expect Rey or Kylo to be transformed into demonic dogs, but I've also wondered if there could be a Keymaster/Gatekeeper type situation needing the two of them to "unlock" something.

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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by snufkin on Tue 30 Aug - 22:00

Hahaha, "I can show you the ways of the Force" is essentially "Wanna come in to my place for a mineral water"

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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by WhatGirl on Tue 30 Aug - 22:26

- Puzzles that require using or knowing the Force in order to be solved.

- Traps or obstacles that can only be disarmed/overcome with two or more people present.

- Doors or bridges that cannot be opened/crossed by the unworthy.

- Passages that have been blocked or buried and will have to be dug through manually (enter shirtless Kylo with a shovel).

- Artifacts with hidden powers that can be potentially used against Snoke.

- An ancient prophecy engraved in stone that reads, "Reylo is canon so deal with it."
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug - 22:28

WhatGirl wrote:- Puzzles that require using or knowing the Force in order to be solved.

- Traps or obstacles that can only be disarmed/overcome with two or more people present.

- Doors or bridges that cannot be opened/crossed by the unworthy.

- Passages that have been blocked or buried and will have to be dug through manually (enter shirtless Kylo with a shovel).

- Artifacts with hidden powers that can be potentially used against Snoke.

- An ancient prophecy engraved in stone that reads, "Reylo is canon so deal with it."
@WhatGirl

I'd also think that Rey's smaller size and/or scavenger skills will come into play at some point. (e.g. some sort of an opening that only Rey is small enough to fit through).

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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by WhatGirl on Tue 30 Aug - 22:33

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I'd also think that Rey's smaller size and/or scavenger skills will come into play at some point. (e.g. some sort of an opening that only Rey is small enough to fit through).
@ISeeAnIsland

I think her abilities as a scavenger are definitely going to be highlighted - accessing tight spots and climbing steep/vertical walls are probably second nature to her.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Tue 30 Aug - 22:56

Definitely not a stash of diamonds. That'd be too much like Letter Never Sent.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug - 23:16

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Definitely not a stash of diamonds. That'd be too much like Letter Never Sent.
@Rimfaxe96

The Star Wars equivalent would be kyber crystals, I guess? (Not that that's what I expect to be there, but a huge stash of kyber crystals could be interesting...)

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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by panki on Wed 31 Aug - 0:29

There were several schisms in the jedi order in the EU but I have this feeling that they might be bringing in the first schism into the ST....

this predates the fight between jedi and sith (the sith are not even in the picture at this time), other types of force users, a charismatic guy who breaks away, a sad love story, the jedi aren't the good guys and it pertains to trying to get a more holistic understanding of the force (though the schism had nothing to do with marriage and romantic attachments).... maybe the first schism will take place on Ahch-to and some of the holocrons containing ancient jedi lore dating back to this time is hidden there.

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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by vaderito on Wed 31 Aug - 0:54

panki wrote:There were several schisms in the jedi order in the EU but I have this feeling that they might be bringing in the first schism into the ST....

this predates the fight between jedi and sith (the sith are not even in the picture at this time), other types of force users, a charismatic guy who breaks away, a sad love story, the jedi aren't the good guys and it pertains to trying to get a more holistic understanding of the force (though the schism had nothing to do with marriage and romantic attachments).... maybe the first schism will take place on Ahch-to and some of the holocrons containing ancient jedi lore dating back to this time is hidden there.
@panki

What sad love story? Pankipedia, we need details!
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by snufkin on Wed 31 Aug - 0:59

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:- Puzzles that require using or knowing the Force in order to be solved.

- Traps or obstacles that can only be disarmed/overcome with two or more people present.

- Doors or bridges that cannot be opened/crossed by the unworthy.

- Passages that have been blocked or buried and will have to be dug through manually (enter shirtless Kylo with a shovel).

- Artifacts with hidden powers that can be potentially used against Snoke.

- An ancient prophecy engraved in stone that reads, "Reylo is canon so deal with it."
@WhatGirl

I'd also think that Rey's smaller size and/or scavenger skills will come into play at some point. (e.g. some sort of an opening that only Rey is small enough to fit through).
@ISeeAnIsland

That could be part of the selfish/manipulative part of things - using both that and her FS talents for perusing his personal interests. Which like I said before, would be both bonding but also could come back to bite him on the a**.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by vaderito on Wed 31 Aug - 1:14

snufkin wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:- Puzzles that require using or knowing the Force in order to be solved.

- Traps or obstacles that can only be disarmed/overcome with two or more people present.

- Doors or bridges that cannot be opened/crossed by the unworthy.

- Passages that have been blocked or buried and will have to be dug through manually (enter shirtless Kylo with a shovel).

- Artifacts with hidden powers that can be potentially used against Snoke.

- An ancient prophecy engraved in stone that reads, "Reylo is canon so deal with it."
@WhatGirl

I'd also think that Rey's smaller size and/or scavenger skills will come into play at some point. (e.g. some sort of an opening that only Rey is small enough to fit through).
@ISeeAnIsland

That could be part of the selfish/manipulative part of things - using both that and her FS talents for perusing his personal interests. Which like I said before, would be both bonding but also could come back to bite him on the a**.
@snufkin

That's a great summary of what we can potentially expect. Also add some Jungian/Bly-esque spice to the list of proceedings. Like facing one's demons before moving on. Which, BTW, may be why two with the same demons (abandonment) are required.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by snufkin on Wed 31 Aug - 1:26

vaderito wrote:
snufkin wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:- Puzzles that require using or knowing the Force in order to be solved.

- Traps or obstacles that can only be disarmed/overcome with two or more people present.

- Doors or bridges that cannot be opened/crossed by the unworthy.

- Passages that have been blocked or buried and will have to be dug through manually (enter shirtless Kylo with a shovel).

- Artifacts with hidden powers that can be potentially used against Snoke.

- An ancient prophecy engraved in stone that reads, "Reylo is canon so deal with it."
@WhatGirl

I'd also think that Rey's smaller size and/or scavenger skills will come into play at some point. (e.g. some sort of an opening that only Rey is small enough to fit through).
@ISeeAnIsland

That could be part of the selfish/manipulative part of things - using both that and her FS talents for perusing his personal interests. Which like I said before, would be both bonding but also could come back to bite him on the a**.
@snufkin

That's a great summary of what we can potentially expect. Also add some Jungian/Bly-esque spice to the list of proceedings. Like facing one's demons before moving on. Which, BTW, may be why two with the same demons (abandonment) are required.
@vaderito

Facing demons for her could be the mentioned elsewhere potential spoiler about her parents. Maz dropped the hammer on her already, but being on the run means she could keep the truth at bay for a little while longer. Being stuck on a tiny island (and I've lived on small islands, so island time/fever does mess with your mind) with a powerful and likely depressed wizard, she's going to have enough time to start thinking about what happened. That either she was dumped and turned over to Plutt as a child slave or that her parents did mean to come back but where killed. Either scenario isn't an easy thing to contemplate and doesn't have a happy ending.
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Re: Speculation about the first Jedi temple: What's actually there?

Post by vaderito on Wed 31 Aug - 1:37

@snufkin What do you think about the obstacle that is Han Solo? In adventure scenarios like that, characters may face ghosts of their crimes. Weren't rumors swirling that Han may appear again? As a vision, flashback, etc.
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