Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

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Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by CienaRee on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 3:40 pm

I've recentlly been asking myself how different would the perception towards Kylo would have been if he was Luke's son instead of Han and Leia's?I mean we've seen the argument about how Kylo's a Solo/Oraga and not a Skywalker because Leia never embraced her Skywalker heritage so even if Kylo continues the line his children would be carrying the Solo surname not the Skwyalker one.If you ask me it's a very sexist way of thinking as it ignores the maternal bloodline yet it's been one of the reasons why the Reywalker theory become so popular.There's been this assumption that Kylo doesn'' deserve to eb redeemed and should remain a villain because it would be too cliche otherwsie yet how would the Skywalker line continue?By having Rey be Luke's daughter ofcourse that way we would have a Skywalker to root for and someone who'll be able to carry the Skwyalker legacy and name especially if she marries someone with no surname. Rolling Eyes
So what do you think?Consdiering how the Vader/Luke relationship was the cnetral oen of the OT would Kylo still be judged so harshly and thought to be expendable by some fans?

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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 4:02 pm

@CienaRee wrote:I've recentlly been asking myself how different would the perception towards Kylo would have been if he was Luke's son instead of Han and Leia's?I mean we've seen the argument about how Kylo's a Solo/Oraga and not a Skywalker because Leia never embraced her Skywalker heritage so even if Kylo continues the line his children would be carrying the Solo surname not the Skwyalker one.If you ask me it's a very sexist way of thinking as it ignores the maternal bloodline yet it's been one of the reasons why the Reywalker theory become so popular.There's been this assumption that Kylo doesn'' deserve to eb redeemed and should remain a villain because it would be too cliche otherwsie yet how would the Skywalker line continue?By having Rey be Luke's daughter ofcourse that way we would have a Skywalker to root for and someone who'll be able to carry the Skwyalker legacy and name especially if she marries someone with no surname. Rolling Eyes
So what do you think?Consdiering how the Vader/Luke relationship was the cnetral oen of the OT would Kylo still be judged so harshly and thought to be expendable by some fans?
@CienaRee

Of course. Sadly they undermine Leia's blood, she's a Skywalker as much as his brother. I've read a stupid comment on fb: Leia is Anakin's daughter but she's not a Skywalker. Lol wut, so I'd say yes, they'd root for him
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:18 pm

Yes, I absolutely think fans would be rooting more for it if he were Luke's. He would be worth saving because OMG Luke's line can't run out (even though Kylo is part of it, but whatever). Leia is actually considered pretty disposable by a lot of them (she wasn't always a Skywalker, after all, and it's not like she was ever trained as a Jedi or is as adept with the Force as Luke). Luke's son would be a real Skywalker in their eyes. Han and Leia's kid is considered second best, just like Leia. It's actually pretty interesting.
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by CienaRee on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:28 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Yes, I absolutely think fans would be rooting more for it if he were Luke's. He would be worth saving because OMG Luke's line can't run out (even though Kylo is part of it, but whatever). Leia is actually considered pretty disposable by a lot of them (she wasn't always a Skywalker, after all, and it's not like she was ever trained as a Jedi or is as adept with the Force as Luke). Luke's son would be a real Skywalker in their eyes. Han and Leia's kid is considered second best, just like Leia. It's actually pretty interesting.
@FrolickingFizzgig
Poor Han and Leia hey pretty much  are aways the ones who get to have their kid turn to the DS both in EU and canon the only difference being that the EU actually doubles their pain since they not onlyo loose one but tow children.That's why I rol my eyes every time I read somene say it'' time to see a Skywalker who doesn't get redeemed.Well,we do actually in the EU with Jacen Solo and it's just depressing.

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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by snufkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:39 pm

When the news of the spoiler for TFA started creeping out, I thought that maybe he would be Luke's kid. Otherwise as a Feminist Killjoy™, I agree with the thesis. They would care more because Luke is the "supposed" important member of the family being both male and Jedi. Especially seeing the # of people discounting that Leia's child doesn't count because he was fathered by Han or that somehow she's not as important because she didn't become a Jedi (typical, woman is too busy with emotional labor on a galactic scale while sibling is studying esoteric topic). Best part, it's a Matrilineal Line which started with a woman. So of course the legacy and name are passed down by the mother.
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by Mana on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:15 pm

@snufkin wrote:When the news of the spoiler for TFA started creeping out, I thought that maybe he would be Luke's kid. Otherwise as a Feminist Killjoy™, I agree with the thesis. They would care more because Luke is the "supposed" important member of the family being both male and Jedi. Especially seeing the # of people discounting that Leia's child doesn't count because he was fathered by Han or that somehow she's not as important because she didn't become a Jedi (typical, woman is too busy with emotional labor on a galactic scale while sibling is studying esoteric topic). Best part, it's a Matrilineal Line which started with a woman. So of course the legacy and name are passed down by the mother.
@snufkin

haha you're right. Anakin didn't have a father, did he? he got his last name from his mother, Shmi Skywalker. So what's the deal with the parent of the next Skywalker legacy needing to be male? what makes Luke more important than Leia? I guess we'll never know...
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by snufkin on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 10:35 pm

@Mana wrote:
@snufkin wrote:When the news of the spoiler for TFA started creeping out, I thought that maybe he would be Luke's kid. Otherwise as a Feminist Killjoy™, I agree with the thesis. They would care more because Luke is the "supposed" important member of the family being both male and Jedi. Especially seeing the # of people discounting that Leia's child doesn't count because he was fathered by Han or that somehow she's not as important because she didn't become a Jedi (typical, woman is too busy with emotional labor on a galactic scale while sibling is studying esoteric topic). Best part, it's a Matrilineal Line which started with a woman. So of course the legacy and name are passed down by the mother.
@snufkin

haha you're right. Anakin didn't have a father, did he? he got his last name from his mother, Shmi Skywalker. So what's the deal with the parent of the next Skywalker legacy needing to be male? what makes Luke more important than Leia? I guess we'll never know...
@Mana

Ahem:

The surprising number of women behind Lucasfilm

10 of the 19 top executives listed on Lucasfilm's web site -- or more than 50 percent -- are female. That number dwarfs the typical percentage of women in the executive suite. Recent figures put the average proportion of top management seats held by women at 15 to 25 percent, depending on how far down the corporate ladder one considers when doing the math.

Kennedy has said as much. At the Fortune Most Powerful Women Summit in October, she spoke openly in an on-stage interview about how many women still aren't in certain film industry jobs. Noting that 50 percent of her executive team is female, as well as that six of the eight people in her "story group" are women, she said "I’m sure there’s a lot of people who would be surprised we’re making 'Star Wars' movies and the majority of the people involved in the development of those stories are women. I think that it’s making a huge difference in the stories that we’re trying to tell."
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:40 am

@ViviF wrote:However controversial and divisive Kylo is, he's exceptional. Thousands of Jedi die in the PT, most of them shot to death and then there's Kylo stopping a blaster bolt midair. He is shot by Chewie's bow caster that kill armored Stormtroopers and he not just survived but continued on chasing after two physical fighters and again, survived it (rewatch TFA and see just how many Finn and Rey kill). He makes people break down and cry and reveals their secrets within seconds. But OT and PT fans don't see him as incredible, do they? I think it's because there's taboo in not being infallible and Kylo being weakened by killing his father and having been preyed upon/groomed by Snoke into the dark side makes hardcore fans disown him as a Skywalker. Odd, because Anakin was similarly influenced by Palpatine and was dark side most of his adult life unlike Kylo who is pulled towards the light after what, 6 years?

Kylo and Leia are both Skywalkers through and through. Look at Leia, a lifelong politician and an experienced general just like Padmé and Anakin, but you see hardcore fans complain about her not living up to her potential as if deciding how to live her own life the way she wants regardless of her father or brother both being Jedi makes her unworthy. People forget that the Organas took a risk adopting the daughter of a man they knew had turned evil and when you look at the public backlash Leia receives when the secret was out it's obvious that in universe she is seen as someone capable of equal evil as Darth Vader because of her bloodline. Leia created the Resistance like Padmé and senator and viceroy Bail Organa was a part of creating the Rebellion but she left the life as a senator and her identity as a princess behind to become a war general the way Anakin was during the Clone Wars. But because she isn't a Jedi, she's seen as a lost cause because as it has been shown by the adamant Rey Skywalker theorists that people want their heroes to wield lightsabers, be Jedi like Luke and thus reject Leia and her son Kylo and instead see Rey as more deserving than them.

Kylo was raised by his uncle the way Luke was raised by Owen and trained by Luke when master and apprentice bonds are significant but people ignore that in favor of the unlikely melodrama of Luke saying my baby girl. The people who worked on TFA have gone through lengths to make sure Kylo is as Solo, Organa and Skywalker as the OT trio but there's a sense of something shattered incomplete in his character, the way he remains incomplete in training as a both Luke's apprentice and Snoke's, the way his lightsaber could combust any time because its crystal is shattered. And he's layered up as if he's trying to hide his true self. As Lor San Tekka states, he has turned away from his bloodline, legacy and gone against his heritage and I think his real struggle is that he has never felt accepted by his family so he turned against them and became exactly who Snoke wanted him to be, a second Darth Vader. Snoke fears Luke and the rise of the Jedi and pressures Kylo to find Skywalker, yet Kylo is Skywalker too. Can the twist be that Kylo becomes a Jedi and causes the rise of the Jedi? Does it matter which twin's son Kylo is when he's the great grandson of the force either way?
@ViviF

Excellent post.

And it would be a great twist if the Skywalker Snoke fears turns out not to be Luke - but Kylo himself?
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 7:04 am

I know this would break some hearts but...
I'd really like it if Luke was a bit 'dark' in the next two films. I know Mark Hamill wanted to explore that side of the character, and it would be a real twist if Kylo and Rey ended up battling Luke, and then maybe Luke turned into a 'good guy' at the end and defeated Snoke. I love Luke but it would be interesting to see him undergo such a trial.
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by Gemini on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 7:16 am

Yes because a lot of people think that Luke is more important than Leia. Even the old films kind of created this idea with the way all the last hope stuff was pinned on him despite leia also being force sensitive.

This is why I'm glad the last skywalker is through the female line now. It makes it more about Leia not Luke.

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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by Darth Dementor on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 7:17 pm

I guarantee you, all these Rey Skywalkers who proclaim to champion womens's rights; hail her as a female icon and feminist role model will turn on her when it's revealed she's not a Skywalker...or most importantly not Lukes.

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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by IoJovi on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 7:24 pm

@Darth Dementor wrote:I guarantee you, all these Rey Skywalkers who proclaim to champion womens's rights; hail her as a female icon and feminist role model will turn on her when it's revealed she's not a Skywalker...or most importantly not Lukes.
@Darth Dementor

And what about Rey making her own choices as to who she can choose to love? Oh but wait - the good-guy hero is supposed to get the girl because he deserves her... *eye roll*
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by Xylo Ren on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 5:12 pm

They'd definitely treat him differently if he was Luke's son...

unless he killed Luke instead of Han? Confus
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by Rogue Rey on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 9:25 am

Of course because to them Luke is the only Skywalker that counts.  

Therefore they cling to the idea that this new butt-kicking powerful girl must be Luke's kid because they simply cannot accept that the last Skywalker is Leia's child and not Luke's.  Or that Rey is so powerful without being Luke's daughter.

But like others I think (if)when it's revealed that Rey is not Luke's kid then they will probably turn against her too and revert back to their claim that Luke is the only Skywalker.

They do need to remember that it was because of Leia that Luke became the Skywalker.  Lots of what happens in Star Wars actually hinges on Leia:
Her abduction in ANH = Luke's involvement
Her capture in ESB = Luke's involvement
Her capture (and Han's!) in RotJ = Luke's involvement
Her son = Luke's disappearance
Her son = Luke's potential return

So yeah Leia is quite important despite not being a named Skywalker.  Would it be different if she'd taken the name Skywalker after Jedi?  Probably not.

I did ask a Reywalker once why they thought what they did, and the reply I got was 'because Luke deserves it.' But they wouldn't expand on why Luke deserves it.  Luke wanted to be a Jedi - as far as I'm aware there was no canon indication that he wanted anything beyond that; such as a family - because he had one (his Aunt and Uncle) and then got a new one (Leia and Han).  Why does he deserve a child and Leia does not??

To me Luke and Leia have always been equally important for different reasons - Han is just as important too!!  And Kylo is the product of the their three legacies - Skywalker, Solo and Organa. Smile
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 10:22 am

I'm just annoyed at the hate Kylo is still getting, to be honest. Before I saw the film I was prepared to hate him myself, but I couldn't. And the more I see it the more I actually love the character. He's the most memorable character in the film for me, and I love Rey and Finn.

What does get me angry is some individuals are actually extending their hate for the character to Adam and that is way out of order.
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by IoJovi on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 10:59 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I'm just annoyed at the hate Kylo is still getting, to be honest. Before I saw the film I was prepared to hate him myself, but I couldn't. And the more I see it the more I actually love the character. He's the most memorable character in the film for me, and I love Rey and Finn.

What does get me angry is some individuals are actually extending their hate for the character to Adam and that is way out of order.
@motherofpearl1

I try to keep my consumption of Star Wars confined to this forum. I wasn't always like that, but I swear every time I venture outside, I find some random comment that trashes everything I loved about TFA and I find it to be completely jarring. And if it's no longer fun for me, why bother?
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by BenRey on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 11:15 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I'm just annoyed at the hate Kylo is still getting, to be honest. Before I saw the film I was prepared to hate him myself, but I couldn't. And the more I see it the more I actually love the character. He's the most memorable character in the film for me, and I love Rey and Finn.

What does get me angry is some individuals are actually extending their hate for the character to Adam and that is way out of order.
@motherofpearl1

Some of the antis are sjws types. They hate Adam/Kylo because he's a  straight white male. A few of the comments I've seen: "He's not hot enough to be Han and Leia's son." "He's not a main character" "He can't be trusted because he works with Lena Dunham".

I first noticed the backlash when he hosted snl last year. "Why is he hosting and not John?

Oddly enough the biggest tiffs I've had happened in an Adam Driver fan group. So there are fans of his that hate Reylo with a passion. Trust me Shocked
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 11:22 am

And John gets mad about it as well; he deeply dislikes the way some people are treating Daisy and Adam.

John's a sweetheart.
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by Rogue Rey on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 11:43 am

It's one thing to dislike the character but another to be hateful to the actor who is simply playing the part and doing their job.
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 12:11 pm

Ditto.
I'm a big kid but....some of us need to grow up.
Adam is not Adam Sackler.
Neither is he Kylo - although I think he might share some of his angst! Very Happy
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by panki on Mon 26 Dec 2016, 3:48 pm

I feel the more hardcore fans would still want Kylo to remain irredeemable even if he were Luke's son primarily because of the act of killing Han, someone they loved and admired for years.

On one hand, I think they're being a little close minded considering there are two more movies before we get the complete picture.....but today something struck me.....if I were in their shoes and saw an older Ben Solo getting killed by his child in a few years time, especially a newly introduced character who I have yet to develop an attachment to.....I might feel the same way an anti-kylo person does....but I hope they are open minded enough to change their view if the story and the redemption arc are compelling enough.

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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 26 Dec 2016, 5:01 pm

I get the "not happy that Han died" feelings but not the hate that goes with it. Harrison Ford is not a youngster. Han Solo is not a youngster. What the heck do people want? 2030: Han Solo in a wheel chair rolled around by Chewie. Exciting! I love Han and Leia. I saw the OT as a teenager. I was in shock seeing Han die, but it makes sense and it sets the expectation high because it is a bold move. If people are not ready to embrace new characters, then they should stay at home and re-watch the OT.

I am not so sure that the hardcore fanboys actually like Luke, who is quite a feeling type. Am I wrong here? I could see them say "oh yeah, Luke's kid is a soft one, not a surprise." I still wonder how some people can call Kylo both a whuss and a murdering psychopath. I mean, which one is it? Many fanboys just seem to like the macho factor of Han, forgetting that the guy is a softie too and is pretty much doing Leia's bidding. Which is why women like him too Smile - I was a Han girl not a Luke.

Somehow, I have the feeling that some are so far burried in their resentment that even if Kylo shows more Han-like behavior - flying the MF for instance Very Happy -, they'd still hate him. In the end, it's their loss.

As for the extension to AD, I think that it comes with the job and there are way more people out there who just do not spend time adoring or hating actors. It's only small groups that are passionate about it and express it online. Could be that the number increased due to many societal factors, but I think it's more social media that increases the impact of one comment rather than the number of comments having really grown exponentially.
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Re: Do you think more hardcore SW fans would be rooting for Kylo's redemption if he was Luke's son?

Post by Rogue Rey on Mon 26 Dec 2016, 5:22 pm

I think Kylo Ren's problem may not lie in who his Father is but who his Grandfather is.

I think many people just automatically expected him to be like Vader, and when they saw that wasn't actually the case they didn't give the character a chance to live and breathe on it's own.  

Perhaps the weight of expectation doesn't just fall on Kylo's shoulders within the film, but outside of it too.

Does that make any sense??? Question Question Question Question Question Question Question
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