ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by WhatGirl on Sat 19 Nov - 1:03

BastilaBey wrote:Amanda didn't enjoy JJ's TFA commentary. Interesting.
@BastilaBey

Somehow, I'm perfectly okay with this. Razz
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by snufkin on Sat 19 Nov - 1:20

Considering that the actual Pocahontus married John Rolfe, that whole rant (on an idealized and fictionalized version of history her tribe has objected to) is just more than dumb beyond just being dumb because of ones own personal preferences about two fictional characters.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by CienaRee on Sat 19 Nov - 1:32

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:@Iseeanisland Ok...I haven't seen that film in a really long time, but 1) doesn't Pocahontas fall in love? and 2) it's pretty racist.
@BastilaBey

I haven't seen it in ages, either. I really don't remember much about it. But if they're basing their ideal female lead on one who ends up single, then that certainly explains their bias for where they want to see Rey's character going.
@ISeeAnIsland
IMO,the only reason Pocahontas ended up single in the first movie was because John Smith was going to die if he stayed with her(since he got injured)so she let him leave to save his life not to mention she risked her life to save him when her people were about to kill him .In the second movie(whcih i think is really unpopualr with the Pochanotas fans since they love her with John Smith)she fell in love wih another guy(the RL Pocahontas actualy ended up marrying him from what I've read).
And really I don't mean to bash Amanda or anything but it's really sexist and hypocritical as well consideirng that she herself is married.I know fiction and RL are different but since she's  married you have to assume she doesn't buy into the notion that falling in love makes you weak.
Plus it also demenas Rey just like the antis who claim that the Reylo fans want her to redeem Kylo with her vagina.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by BastilaBey on Sat 19 Nov - 1:37

WhatGirl wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:Amanda didn't enjoy JJ's TFA commentary. Interesting.
@BastilaBey

Somehow, I'm perfectly okay with this. Razz
@WhatGirl

Oh, me too. I think it's pretty funny and telling. I enjoy Rebel grrrl but am not going to pretend the girls don't have their biases/headcanons. Every Star Wars fan does!
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Saracene on Sat 19 Nov - 1:38

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:Amanda didn't enjoy JJ's TFA commentary. Interesting.
@BastilaBey

Nope. And she also goes on a long rant later in the podcast talking about how much she'd loved Pocahontas as a kid because she was such a bada** and didn't end up someone's girlfriend in the end.
@ISeeAnIsland

Well, she might get her wish since there's a strong chance that the ST could end with "love each other, can't be together" sort of thing. Which if I remember right is how Pocahontas ended.

But yeah, the "female heroine must stay single to be strong" is just stupid. Is this how some people see the real-life romance and relationships as well, that a woman "loses her agency" or whatever when she falls in love?
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Mana on Sat 19 Nov - 1:39

LOL yeah, Pocahontas was prepared to sacrifice her own life for John Smith because she loved him and gave him up to save his life. I say good on her for standing up to her dad! coming from a culture where young people are required to respect and obey the authority of elders no matter what, I admire Pocahontas for that!
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by ZioRen on Sat 19 Nov - 2:54

Saracene wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:Amanda didn't enjoy JJ's TFA commentary. Interesting.
@BastilaBey

Nope. And she also goes on a long rant later in the podcast talking about how much she'd loved Pocahontas as a kid because she was such a bada** and didn't end up someone's girlfriend in the end.
@ISeeAnIsland

Well, she might get her wish since there's a strong chance that the ST could end with "love each other, can't be together" sort of thing. Which if I remember right is how Pocahontas ended.

But yeah, the "female heroine must stay single to be strong" is just stupid. Is this how some people see the real-life romance and relationships as well, that a woman "loses her agency" or whatever when she falls in love?
@Saracene

It just gets me that this """feminist""" idea is once again making the status of a man in a woman's life a measure of her worth and strength.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sat 19 Nov - 13:17

BastilaBey wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:
BastilaBey wrote:Amanda didn't enjoy JJ's TFA commentary. Interesting.
@BastilaBey

Somehow, I'm perfectly okay with this. Razz
@WhatGirl

Oh, me too. I think it's pretty funny and telling. I enjoy Rebel grrrl but am not going to pretend the girls don't have their biases/headcanons. Every Star Wars fan does!
@BastilaBey

Their hatred is our strength! Even the other one didn't like it?
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by LondonGal555 on Sun 20 Nov - 4:31

I think Kylo and Rey will end up together. i think Kylo will spend the rest of his life doing good in the galaxy. I see Kylo and Rey as having the new Skywalker generation for the new trilogy that Disney is going to do( Kathleen Kennedy said it'll always be about the Skywalker family)

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by BastilaBey on Sun 20 Nov - 21:41

Hi all,

Episode 7 of Scavenger's Hoard is now available! You can listen on Soundcloud here https://soundcloud.com/scavengershoard/episode-7-much-ado-about-shipping

It will be on iTunes soon but it seems like their RSS feed takes a while to update after uploads



Quick guide:

0.00-6.40 – Intros and brief discussion of the new Rogue One novel Catalyst.

NEWS

6.40-14.52 – We discuss the casting of Emilia Clarke in the new Han Solo standalone movie.
14.52-19.10 – Episode IX to be filmed in 70mm!
19.10-33.33 – We discuss the new Making Star Wars spoilers on the new characters played by Benicio del Toro, Laura Dern and Kelly Marie Tran.
33.33-35.43 – We pass judgement on the new Rogue One IMAX poster!
35.43-39.13 – Two new Rogue One featurettes to discuss courtesy of Japan!
39.13-49.00 – We discuss the latest Rogue One featurette, and the film’s PG-13 rating.

SPOTLIGHT SECTION

49.00 –2.01.34 – We have an epic discussion of shipping, with a particular focus on The Force Awakens fandom and how the shipping phenomenon has been perceived and treated by the wider fandom.

IT CAME FROM REDDIT!

2.01.34-2.07.20 – We bite our teeth into one Redditor’s stab at a hypothetical Episode VIII teaser!

QUESTIONS

2.07.20 –2.12.54 – We answer “So my question is, from your perspectives, what types of revelations or scenarios are possible concerning the massacre? And how important is it in the first place, esp concerning Kylo and Rey (as we know now that Rey was definitely not trained by Luke)?”
2.12.54-2.19.04 – We answer “What are you guys' thoughts on the early MSW rumored subplot of Leia, Poe and Laura Dern? Where Laura Dern is a surviving Republic senator or General, who has conflict with Poe during Leia's injuries. Will Dern be a "shadow archetype" of Leia or Poe? Do you think they'll be a mini-resistance civil war? Leia followers vs Dern followers? Is this too much for Episode VIII to handle?”
2.19.04-end – We answer “Hi there! Wanted you ladies to know you run my number one choice in Star Wars podcasts by a long shot. I am also a believer in Reylo however my question doubles as a theory and it pertains to your comments that Rey having bested a wounded and emotionally bent Kylo leaves an interesting arc for their next confrontation. What if Rey, who has limited experience counting on others, is spared by Kylo thus confusing her emotionally-morally, bringing it full circle=Reylo/redemption.”


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 20 Nov - 21:42

BastilaBey wrote:Hi all,

Episode 7 of Scavenger's Hoard is now available! You can listen on Soundcloud here https://soundcloud.com/scavengershoard/episode-7-much-ado-about-shipping

It will be on iTunes soon but it seems like their RSS feed takes a while to update after uploads

@BastilaBey

cheers cheers
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 20 Nov - 22:35

Girls,
Thank you very much for the shipping discussion in the podcast. It's great.
As a fresh shipper as well - I was amazed about the history of it - however as you have pointed out it's something natural to human nature to do.
From that point of view - I can say that most of us had been shippers long before the phenomenon got a name.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Saracene on Mon 21 Nov - 8:55

Great discussion on the shipping! cheers

You hit the nail on the head with the lack of the in-depth discussion of characters' dynamics. I've noticed a similar thing when reading up people's predictions for Episode VIII - they tend to treat each individual character separately.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by ZenBrainJam on Mon 21 Nov - 13:46

Darth_Awakened wrote:Girls,
Thank you very much for the shipping discussion in the podcast. It's great.
As a fresh shipper as well - I was amazed about the history of it - however as you have pointed out it's something natural to human nature to do.
From that point of view - I can say that most of us had been shippers long before the phenomenon got a name.
@Darth_Awakened

Absolutely!
I'm so sad that I can't understand what you were saying in the podcast (but I like the sound of your voices)
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by guardienne on Mon 21 Nov - 15:48

@bastilabey thank you so much for a shipping discussion. i haven't listened to it yet but i will, just like i end up listening to your other ramblings Lolilol

i really loved the previous discussion of the state of fandom. the lack of diverse debate has been making me fairly sad.

i think your sound has actually improved. this is great.

there's a small technical quibble: have you thought about editing the conversation more? like, i think every segments ends with 'anything else, ok let's move on etc. cut that bit out because it's unnecessary? and instead announce the new topic.

i don't know if this a terrible idea but i'm strangely bothered by the repetition. also because you introduced clear sections, if that makes sense.

why did you discuss letter never sent last time? i didn't listen to that bit because i'm beginning to become protective of the speculation and spoilers.

thank you again for rambling weekly and being enthusiastic and critical. it gives me life.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by BastilaBey on Mon 21 Nov - 15:55

@guardienne You're welcome, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the new episode when you get time to listen.

That's a good point about the editing, I'll suggest to nonesuch. We want a clear divide between the segments but I agree that that could sound too repetitive. Some podcasters use cheesy music but that's not really our thing!

We discussed Letter Never Sent because of its possible relevance to episode VIII. Over time we plan to talk about all of the films Rian mentioned but it will take us a while to watch them all. We've both watched Three Outlaw Samurai so that will probably be the next one.

Thanks @Darth_Awakened, @Saracene and I'm sorry @zenbrainjam you can't follow the discussion. I had wondered if we could transcribe the episodes as I've seen other podcasters do but it would be far too time-consuming.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by guardienne on Mon 21 Nov - 16:17

@bastilabey if i were you, from a purely aesthetic pov, i would try what an edit sounds like. like, i can imagine it sounding quite artificial as well. i don't listen to a lot of podcasts so i can't steal ideas. my ideas come from radio where a different voice and a jingle type thing (a lightsabre swooshing??!!) does the trick. i think it would make it neater. and it avoids the 'finished?' thing, which i think you don't need for the listener.

i reckon in the end it depends on what you are aiming to project and so far it's been very nice and organised but also allowing enough room to deviate and explore angles so it's great.

i've still got sahara sat here unopened and i think johnson mentioned that one as well? maybe you could do an outlook on what's going to be discussed next time? so i know when to unwrap it?

i was also going to say, when you were discussing his inspiration back in one of the first podcasts you were mentioning they were all pretty male centered. and yeah, i agree, but there aren't many war films that are about female perspective to begin with, i think? i can't think of any right now anyway.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by guardienne on Mon 21 Nov - 19:17

@bastilabey at this rate i'm not going to have a lot of thing i can still listen to on the podcast spoiler-wise but i'll make do  Err no

i really enjoyed the shipping discussion, it was nice to have an extra voice and to see things from all of your povs. i found the discussion of female engagement with fandom especially pertinent because i was always taken aback by how much guys tend to discuss light sabre sizes *cough* and power levels  and stuff that interests me very little. it's very true that women tend to be more interested in relationship and it doesn't even matter if this is about women, stories are about relationships, so whoever is interested in relationships should be able to discuss anything freely.

i feel that some of the censorship that's been our experience comes from a lack of critical engagement and critical tradition in general. i remember conversation with people over reylo and kylo and whatnot that were so concerned with 'facts', with appeal to authority and how jj said this and that, and it's been my experience of star wars fandom that people need to be spoonfed and can't interpret much at all. so, if you are only hypothetically posing something, just to see where it'd be going, it's almost heretic. canon trumps everything and that makes for a super-boring discussion.

i have thought about the nature of reylo and kylux quite a bit and discussed it with a friend who is a kylux shipper as well. and in our opinion there tends to be a sanctimoniousness to the reylo fanfiction, there is a need to make rey look all good and kylo all evil that is pretty absent from kylux. they have a more adult dynamic (again, in the fics) and that's refreshing. it gives me an idea of how far i need to see rey grow before i can take her serious beyond the character she is now. also what i've noticed in reylo fiction there is a concern with writing a relatively plausible in-universe story instead of playing with the characters in AUs and whatnot. kylux seems less worried about having to turn anyone to any light or darkness, which is guess is an advantage of villain shipping.

there is some interesting meta on kylux by millicentthecat on tumblr wrt villain shipping and whether it's progressive or not. and i'm not sure i can follow all of that in detail but i find it intriguing just as an activity and how it reflects on the fandom, i guess.

but it's been interesting for me on a meta level how these ships are perceived and how they are being processed by the fans and it's really exciting to learn what the tropes are.

my other thought on reylo is that i'm surprised there is quite a bit of non-con fanfiction out there given the accusations that people have experienced. but also i feel that reylo shippers have been persecuted and ridiculed for so long that it's been difficult to just enjoy the ship as it is. and to enjoy the implications of it.

personally i'm not even really wanting a confirmation for the next movie, i'd like for the mutual confusion to remain. but maybe that's just me Sapristi
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by BastilaBey on Mon 21 Nov - 19:28

@guardienne

Thank you for your thoughts! Yes sorry, we are total spoiler junkies but try our best to keep it out of the spotlight sections so people can still listen to that if they're trying to remain unspoiled.

Regarding Kylux, I would not describe myself as a shipper even though I follow a few very talented artists and have read some fic. It hits me negatively as a queer person if we are talking about it in terms of canon, because queer-coded villains were something that I noticed from an early age. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me, that the heroes were never coded that way - only the characters who were clearly 'morally wrong', or at least 'grey'. Kylo's androgyny appeals because it rings in more of a Byronic sense; he is emotional and passionate, but not in a way that many Disney villains have been queer-coded over the decades. If that makes sense.

I've read lots of millicent's stuff and I happen to agree with some of her points on the problematic binary of the force and what 'redemption' might mean. My hope is that the ST is about balancing light and dark, which will manifest in BOTH Rey and Kylo. My understanding of TFA is that they both have light and darkness in them and need to learn to accept and harness both, to reconcile with their whole selves in a Jungian sense. That's what redemption means for me, that Kylo finds a way to be at peace with that duality. We'll just have to see how that's executed.

I honestly think, even while there is a lot of stunning creativity, that the reylo fandom has suffered in its output because of the scrutiny. Kylux has more freedom, their fiction and art can be more subversive, daring, it's not about appealing to be a canon ship. Reylo is divided because plenty of shippers just want to enjoy it as crack and be left alone, while some of us actually believe it's part of the real story. We then take it upon ourselves to write epic slow burns (which I love, don't get me wrong) which effectively theorize on how the actual trilogy itself might go. Kylux has a ton more in fic count because there are far more fun one-shots.

And like you I do not expect 'reylo as canon' in the next movie, not in the same way as some here anyway. I think it will be obvious that *something* is going on, but still in a 'how will they get to the stage where this is reciprocated/they could be together' sort of thing. But that's my jam, so I'm all good. There's a reason I compare it a lot to stories like East of the Sun, West of the Moon and Pride and Prejudice; it's about that long and unlikely journey.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Reynak on Mon 21 Nov - 19:53

I agree with you that it isn't necessary for Reylo to be so obvious for us to enjoy it. In fact I loved its subtlety in TFA. What makes us want it to be more obvious as soon as possible is the infuriating wave of mockery, dismissal and unfair criticism based or phony moral grounds we have been suffering. I love, like most people here, subtlety and even ambiguity in stories, this makes them delectable if done well, but in a way I'm impatient to shut some mouths up with undeniable facts on screen, which is a contradiction, because what I really enjoy is not coarse obviousness but the opposite. I love what we do here and this would be impossible in a simple story where everything is spoonfed for the viewers.

It's so absurd to expect validation from the director, Pablo or the actors when the whole story is there, available in the movie. We only want validation so that the antis don't pester us but it's a real shame so many people need to be spelled out what a movie is about.

I feel curious about why many people see Kylo as androgynous. Some friends of mine share this opinion but it isn't so clear for me. What are the traits that make him androgynous in your view?


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 21 Nov - 20:29

Reynak wrote:I agree with you that it isn't necessary for Reylo to be so obvious for us to enjoy it. In fact I loved its subtlety in TFA. What makes us want it to be more obvious as soon as possible is the infuriating wave of mockery, dismissal and unfair criticism based or phony moral grounds we have been suffering. I love, like most people here, subtlety and even ambiguity in stories, this makes them delectable if done well, but in a way I'm impatient to shut some mouths up with undeniable facts on screen, which is a contradiction, because what I really enjoy is not coarse obviosness but the opposite. I love what we do here and this would be impossible in a simple story where everything is spoonfed for the viewers.

It's so absurd to expect validation from the director, Pablo or the actors where the whole story is there, available in the movie. We only want validation so that the antis don't pester us but it's a real shame so many people need to be spelled out what a movie is about.

I feel curious as why many people see Kylo as androgynous. Some friends of mine share this opinion but it isn't so clear for me. What are the traits that make him androgynous in your view?
@Reynak

Maybe his sensivity, sometimes he might cry, sometimes he might be detached
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Reynak on Mon 21 Nov - 20:58

So it's about his behaviour and not his looks, I guess. My niece finds him androgynous too, perhaps because of his full lips and sensitive face, although full lips have nothing to do with being male or female.


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by snufkin on Mon 21 Nov - 22:01

Reynak wrote:So it's about his behaviour and not his looks, I guess. My niece finds him androgynous too, prerhaps because of his full lips and sensitive face, although full lips have nothing to do with being male or female.
@Reynak

People hating on this character while loving Vader and Han seem to have missed the point that he's something of a critique of the types of masculinity and fanboyishness those characters represented. Also miss the point that Han's whole character through 4 movies ends up being a repudiation/cautionary tale of the type of masculinity which makes him so worshiped.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by Irina de France on Mon 21 Nov - 22:05

snufkin wrote:
Reynak wrote:So it's about his behaviour and not his looks, I guess. My niece finds him androgynous too, prerhaps because of his full lips and sensitive face, although full lips have nothing to do with being male or female.
@Reynak

People hating on this character while loving Vader and Han seem to have missed the point that he's something of a critique of the types of masculinity and fanboyishness those characters represented. Also miss the point that Han's whole character through 4 movies ends up being a repudiation/cautionary tale of the type of masculinity which makes him so worshiped.
@snufkin

Exactly. The point with Han is that he tries looking like a dashing rogue, but in Episode IV itself, we can quickly see it's not the case. Well, this Tumblr post sums it up pretty well:

http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/148567705877/sashayed-ah-yes-han-solo-han-solo-so-suave

As for Vader, the entire Prequel Trilogy is an undoing of what we've seen of him in the OT, and even today, a lot of people fail to see that point. We expected a memetic bad*** in the PT? We got a scared, emotional and insecure young man who ultimately just wanted to save his wife.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3

Post by snufkin on Mon 21 Nov - 22:13

Irina de France wrote:
snufkin wrote:
Reynak wrote:So it's about his behaviour and not his looks, I guess. My niece finds him androgynous too, prerhaps because of his full lips and sensitive face, although full lips have nothing to do with being male or female.
@Reynak

People hating on this character while loving Vader and Han seem to have missed the point that he's something of a critique of the types of masculinity and fanboyishness those characters represented. Also miss the point that Han's whole character through 4 movies ends up being a repudiation/cautionary tale of the type of masculinity which makes him so worshiped.
@snufkin

Exactly. The point with Han is that he tries looking like a dashing rogue, but in Episode IV itself, we can quickly see it's not the case. Well, this Tumblr post sums it up pretty well:

http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/148567705877/sashayed-ah-yes-han-solo-han-solo-so-suave

As for Vader, the entire Prequel Trilogy is an undoing of what we've seen of him in the OT, and even today, a lot of people fail to see that point. We expected a memetic bad*** in the PT? We got a scared, emotional and insecure young man who ultimately just wanted to save his wife.
@Irina de France

Yes! People seem to think that he's this Steve McQueen cool headed bad a** type and he's not. I never really thought about it until watching ESB again as an adult and you can see when they're trying to get out of Echo Base with Vader on their heels, how he's totally sweating and nervous. His eyes totally dart around and when Leia's sniping at him, his mouth falls while his back is turned to her, he's trying to start up the Falcom. Because it's hit him that he's responsible for trying to get their collective asses out of there with barely seconds to spare. Even when he's introduced in the first movie, right after he strikes the bargain with Obi-Wan, you see the fake bravado drop with Chewie because the first thing invoked is the sword/challenge that hangs over his head the entire time, how he's in debt to Jabba. Which is a near fatal bargain he struck because of overconfidence.
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snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5877
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Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

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