ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by snufkin on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 10:05 pm

If they had insurance plans in place, especially after the accident that almost killed Harrison Ford*, then they likely also did risk/contingency planning for all of the major actors. They probably had a plan in place which anticipated something happening because of her health issues with bipolar disorder preventing future participation. In regards to the character, part of her agreeing to return probably including getting some input about both the character and her storyline. Not just out of respect to her as a writer, but obviously because she took her responsibility as the character's "custodian" pretty seriously. She had opinions about what could be "made right" for Leia considering how the character was sometimes treated in the OT, including some of the discussion in her last interviews with Stephen Colbert and Terry Gross here in the States (which wow, were 3 weeks before her death).

That said, it's hard to imagine that Leia would have a major role in either VIII or IX but instead be a critical supporting character. What you'd hope for in IX would be Leia finally getting her due, including gaining back one person after a lifetime of losses. And that she'd not just get her son back, but closure to her relationship with Han because his self-sacrifice helped bring it about. So man, that would be really sad if they just cut the character out completely. Dunno about the CGI option. I found it jarring in R1 and if you read the NYT article about the technology and techniques used, one of the details shared was that the lighting for the animated part of Peter Cushing's head had to stay consistent with the ranges used in the original movie. Which were different from the ranges used in R1. So that's part of why the Tarkin character in R1 seems a little unearthly, the lighting around his head and for his head stand out because it's in a different register from what was photographed for those scenes.

More than likely they had "what if" scenarios planned for the character and storyline if Carrie had to drop out. Personally? I'd be happy if they continued with the planned story and got another actress to take over the character. I did see one comment about how Meryl Streep would be good because she not only knew Carrie but played her down to the vocal inflections and mannerisms in Postcards from the Edge. That seems the most sensible route with the right actress, versus writing off her character or killing her. Extra sads, but you imagine that deep down, Ben wants to be back in his mom's good graces as badly as she wants him back. Which given what's been discussed about Carrie and her mother dying within a day of each other after reconciling following Carrie's own "fall" into drugs and mental illness, that was a detail that Carrie likely brought to her portrayal of Leia's relationship with Ben. You definitely don't envy the writers/directors for these films in having to figure that part out when they're likely also going through the grief and heartbreak of losing somebody who was as much a friend as important colleague.

* Between his accident and Carrie suddenly dying, it's almost like a curse for the original characters.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by IoJovi on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 10:24 pm

@snufkin wrote:If they had insurance plans in place, especially after the accident that almost killed Harrison Ford*, then they likely also did risk/contingency planning for all of the major actors. Although they probably had a plan in place which anticipated something happening because of her health which would prevent her participation in the movies. She probably had some input about both the character and her storyline, not just as a writer, but obviously as somebody who's spoken about being the "custodian" of the character. Which is part of what she did on the book tour appearances with Stephen Colbert and Terry Gross. She had opinions about what could be "made right" for Leia considering how the character was sometimes treated in the OT.

That said, it's hard to imagine that Leia would have a major role in either VIII or IX, but been a critical supporting character. What you'd hoped for in IX would be Leia finally getting her due, including gaining back one person after a lifetime of losses. That she'd not just get her son back, but closure to her relationship with Han because his self-sacrifice helped bring it about. So man, that would be really sad if they just cut the character out completely. Dunno about the CGI option. I found it jarring in R1 and the NYT article about the technology and techniques used said that the lighting for the animated part of Peter Cushing's head had to stay consistent with the ranges used in the original movie. Which were different from the ranges used in R1. So it doesn't exactly mesh and that's why some viewers found it especially jarring anytime the Tarkin character shows up in R1. They probably had scenarios, but personally I'd be happy if they got another actress to take over the character and finish it out. I did see a comment about having Meryl Streep play Leia because she knew Carrie Fisher really well and a lot of people who knew her felt that she really did justice to her personality/mannerisms in Postcards from the Edge. They were friends and it's pretty easy to imagine her being able to boss around/intimidate the younger characters.

* Between his accident and Carrie suddenly dying, it's almost like a curse for the original characters.
@snufkin

I honestly haven't really wanted to dive into this subject until today, and I've been avoiding reading any news commentary. I know many of us feel the same way. Now that I've gotten into the discussion and the floodgates have opened, I can't stop thinking about it.

@snufkin I know you're right - a movie franchise this large would have to have provisions in place for all of the actors, particularly the original three who are up there in age. Knowing that gives me comfort that thought has already been put into this, and they'll do right by her character. Carrie I'm sure would have had some input on this, and she would not want Leia's story cut short.

That said, the more I think about it, the more I'm hoping for the part to be recast. There's no way you could do justice to the story by severely reducing her arc if the story didn't originally call for it. CGI isn't going to cut it (although I can hear Carrie's hilarious commentary on it, and that alone makes me smile.).

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by snufkin on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 10:29 pm

Found the NYT article, they can do a lot with CGI but the Tarkin and Leia characters did seem off to me and it sounds like it was the difference in lighting between the two movies:



How ‘Rogue One’ Brought Back Familiar Faces

Tarkin presented considerably greater difficulties, but the filmmakers said it would be just as hard to omit him from a narrative that prominently features the fearsome Death Star — the battle station he refuses to evacuate amid the rebels’ all-out assault in “Star Wars.”

“If he’s not in the movie, we’re going to have to explain why he’s not in the movie,” said Kiri Hart, a Lucasfilm story development executive and “Rogue One” co-producer. “This is kind of his thing.”

In striving for a balance between a digital figure who seemed real and one who looked precisely like Cushing, the “Rogue One” creators said seemingly minor tweaks could make significant differences — and these details were tinkered with constantly.

For example, the original “Star Wars” film (also known as “A New Hope”) was lit differently than “Rogue One,” raising questions of how to adjust the lighting on the character.

Hal Hickel, an Industrial Light & Magic animation supervisor, said that lighting him “the way he was in ‘A New Hope’ improved his likeness as Tarkin, but it worsened the sense of him being real because then he didn’t look like any of the actors in the scene.”

Mr. Knoll said he and his colleagues were aware of the “slippery slope argument,” that their simulated Cushing was opening the door to more and more movies using digital reproductions of dead actors.

“I don’t imagine that happening,” Mr. Knoll said. “This was done for very solid and defendable story reasons. This is a character that is very important to telling this kind of story.”

He added: “It is extremely labor-intensive and expensive to do. I don’t imagine anybody engaging in this kind of thing in a casual manner.”“We’re not planning on doing this digital re-creation extensively from now on,” Mr. Knoll said. “It just made sense for this particular movie.”

Also chillingly enough, one of Carrie's last Tweets was a sardonic response about the march of time and decaying towards death as why she couldn't do the motion capture for her 19 year old self.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 10:35 pm

Recasting Leia is starting to sound like a more viable option than CGI. 

Not only that it'll save the production millions of dollars, an actual actress could give the character more weight and emotion. It wouldn't exactly be the same without Carrie, but a real person is much better than a CG with very limited expressions.

The Michael Gambon reference is a really good example of a recast done well. Michael was emotionally more of a Dumbledore than Richard Harris, while Richard was the storybook image. Michael also has a great acting range and energy for the character.

Carrie already has TFA and VIII down, all that's left is IX, while it would be sad not to see a mother and son reunion with Carrie and Adam, I guess it'll be fine as long as Ben is reunited with Leia.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by snufkin on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 10:44 pm

@IoJovi - It would've been heartless and tacky to immediately start thinking of that at the moment she went into the hospital. Primarily out of respect to the loss her family has endured. But clearly the actors and filmmakers she had worked with on VII and VIII are also dealing with grief of a friend's sudden death. But there's sadly now the responsibility of figuring out what to do with her character. If they had insurance policies in place, especially after what happened with Harrison Ford, then there was contingency plans in place. And besides planning for obvious risks like the relapse of a serious and lifelong medical condition, a lot can happen in a 12 month gap between filming. No doubt there's also some grief/shock over her death when they all likely thought that they'd got through the worst of it with Harrison Ford almost being killed on VII.

Otherwise, it's just a horrible situation to be put in, dealing with your grief while being responsible for figuring out what to do with that character and the part of the story they were involved with. Without knowing whatever they'd planned for her in IX, it seems like the best way to honor the character and actress would be to have somebody take over to carry it over the finish line. Leia isn't meant to be a lead in the ST. But she pretty clearly anchors one of the leads and the heart of the Force Plot. She's the reason why he's FS and was targeted/seduced to the DS.


Last edited by snufkin on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 10:48 pm

I guess we should put the topic to rest for a while? Until we get new rumors on anything regarding Leia in IX atleast.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by snufkin on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 11:06 pm

Honestly I'd imagine that the people who have to make these decisions are just dealing with their shock and grief right now, it'll take some time to figure out. What's a huge loss for everybody is how much the franchise just benefited of her doing the press tour, between her gave no f**ks attitude and Gary's participation, that's what made TFA's press coverage an event.

All Hail Carrie Fisher’s Press Tour - It's Become the Best Thing About The Force Awakens

Carrie Fisher did not simply wake up one morning and decide that she was going to be wacky on Good Morning America. No, Carrie Fisher always speaks from her heart and what she speaks is the most honest truth in the Galaxy.

This all began on March 5, 2013, when Carrie Fisher announced to the world, or rather Palm Beach Illustrated, that she was doing the new Star Wars movie and would play an older Leia. Two days later, Carrie Fisher's rep clarified that she was joking. But Carrie Fisher does not joke. Carrie Fisher tells the truth. Soon, news slipped through George Lucas himself that Fisher — along with Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill — were in the final stages of negotiation for the film. Carrie Fisher cares as much about your embargoes as Padmé Amidala cares about the Trade Federation's.

In October, Carrie Fisher did an interview with her maybe film daughter Daisy Ridley. There was little Force Awakens news enclosed. Instead, Carrie Fisher spent most of the interview offering very mom-like advice to Daisy Ridley. For instance:

Carrie Fisher’s blunt, magical press tour is already the best thing about the return of “Star Wars” Let's applaud Fisher, who reprises her iconic role as Leia, for her commentary on ageism, sexism and fandom

Even if you’re someone who’s always been only “meh” about the “Star Wars” empire, the imminent release of “Star Wars: The Force Awakens” is nonetheless cause for nonstop rejoicing. Because where’s there’s “Star Wars,” there’s Carrie Fisher.

Fisher, currently competing with the New York Daily News for the title “Legendary American Institution with the Fewest F__ks to Give,” has been making the media circuit to promote the forthcoming installment of the saga, and it’s damn glorious. Because Carrie Fisher — actress, memoirist, former Jenny Craig spokeswoman, self-described poster child for bipolar disorder — is not having your nonsense.

Carrie Fisher’s press tour for Star Wars: The Force Awakens has been spectacular — and revolutionary "I think in my mouth, so I don't lie."

Carrie Fisher's career began with Star Wars when she was just 19 years old, but she has since become a comedian, author, and performer in her own one-woman variety show. She has also been in and around Hollywood all her life thanks to her famous parents, Eddie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds. Thus, she's no stranger to interviews and publicity tours. And as she prepares the world to see her as General Leia in The Force Awakens, Fisher is doing the whole rigmarole with not just a wink, but an uncanny way of dismantling what's expected of her.

Carrie Fisher turns the official Force Awakens press conference into a one-woman comedy show

Press conferences are pretty straightforward, as far as media appearances go. But when you're dealing with a live wire like Fisher, there's just no telling what type of answers you'll get.

During the film's December 6 press conference, moderator Mindy Kaling tried to inject some of her signature humor into the questions — and Fisher outpaced her almost every time. Kaling's first (facetious) question, "Aren’t you rich? Why did you want to do these movies?" was immediately met with a wry Fisher response: "Do you want to borrow money?" And when asked what director J.J. Abrams brought to the new movie, Fisher grinned. ""We drank through the whole trilogy in the beginning," she said. "[The Force Awakens] was a sober set. That’s what J.J. brought to it. Sobriety!"

Choice Fisher quote: When a reporter asked if Gary the bulldog could have played a Star Wars alien: "I begged J.J. Gary was willing to sleep with J.J.! I mean nap — but still."

Carrie Fisher and Daisy Ridley have a frank conversation about becoming nerd icons

One of the best interviews Fisher has done this year is, unsurprisingly, one in which she got to ask the questions. Interview magazine recently had her talk with Daisy Ridley, the new star of The Force Awakens, and it was a refreshing break from the usual to hear the two women speak candidly about how downright weird it is to be part of something as huge as Star Wars — especially when people start referring to you as a "sex symbol"...This interview did something movie interviews rarely do: let two women at the center of a huge franchise talk without reservations, entirely on their terms. The result was a wonderfully telling discussion of fame, hero worship, and what happens when fandom crosses the line from "enthusiastic" into "dangerous."
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 11:24 pm

If they did opt to re-cast, there are certainly a few good actresses in roughly the right age range who could bring their own version of Leia's attitude and feistiness to the role--someone like a Holly Hunter (who's about the right height, as well) or a Helen Mirren could pull it off without embarrassing themselves.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by snufkin on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 11:29 pm

Ha, I can imagine Holly Hunter because she's both tiny and very good at ordering other people around. Like Ed in Raising Arizona ("Hi, you get back in there and get me a toddler! They got more than they can handle"). She'd go after Snoke for taking away her son



(Hi and Ed are kind of like Han and Leia with lowlife romancing straight arrow)
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 11:35 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:If they did opt to re-cast, there are certainly a few good actresses in roughly the right age range who could bring their own version of Leia's attitude and feistiness to the role--someone like a Holly Hunter (who's about the right height, as well) or a Helen Mirren could pull it off without embarrassing themselves.
@ISeeAnIsland

I thought about Holly Hunter too. She's feisty and small and a strong actor and presence.  And if they don't worry so much about height, Meryl Streep and Helen Mirren would be great. Those ladies can do anything ... and Meryl was outstanding in Postcards from the Edge.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 12:31 am

Get me someone tiny like Carrie! The mother son hug with a huge height difference was always a part of my headcanons.

ETA: If they found Ingvild Deila who stood in for Leia in RO, I think they can get an actress for General Leia with similar features. Ingvild could've gone without CGI IMO. Just change her hair and eye color and some contouring make up and she's 19 yr old Carrie.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Saracene on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 1:38 am

I don't know if they'll go with the re-casting; it's true that Dumbledore was played by two different actors, but I think it's different when a character existed in another medium first and lived in people's imaginations unattached to a particular actor. Leia is so synonymous with Carrie, anyone else would feel like playing dress-up.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by panki on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 3:04 am

I don't see them re-casting Leia....they might explore her story in other media like novels, comics, animation.....or maybe someone will do a brief CGI cameo of her in movies....but I don't think they will re-cast this role.....it is just too iconic a role....also, after the recent insurance payout Disney is set to receive for Carrie Fisher's death (41-50 million performance insurance in case she was unable to complete the trilogy with Lloyds)....not to mention Harrison Ford's payout after he sustained in injury on the set of TFA, I don't see insurance companies lining up to insure any of the OT3 beyond episode 9.....so I am now worried that Luke wont appear in movies beyond episode 9 either....he might survive episode 9 but they might use other media to tell his story.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 3:22 am

@Saracene wrote:I don't know if they'll go with the re-casting; it's true that Dumbledore was played by two different actors, but I think it's different when a character existed in another medium first and lived in people's imaginations unattached to a particular actor. Leia is so synonymous with Carrie, anyone else would feel like playing dress-up.
@Saracene

I agree with this. Dumbledore is a bit of a different case.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 3:43 am

For sure tho, whatever happens; killing off Leia, CGI Leia, or Recasting Leia, not everyone will be pleased. No matter what Carrie might've suggested to TPTB, there will always be some sort of resistance to it. 

What's important for me personally is that they do the character justice whatever method they decide to take. There are pros and cons to any of these methods. Pros would be how I hope they do it, and cons ofcourse if they fail at giving Leia justice.

1.) kill her off
pro- writing it to fit her arc and Kylo Ren's arc. Needs to involve closure.
con- sweeping her under the rug

2.) CGI
pro- Continues her story. Leia remains an active character and will still look like Carrie.
con- obvious AF. cringy. really limited range of acting.

3.) Recast
pro- same as 2 but with a new face
con- TPTB and new actress will get loads of flack. especially if new actress fails to make Leia reminiscent of Carrie.

A lot could still happen. I just hope they do right by her. Doing Leia justice is doing Carrie justice.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 5:25 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:For sure tho, whatever happens; killing off Leia, CGI Leia, or Recasting Leia, not everyone will be pleased. No matter what Carrie might've suggested to TPTB, there will always be some sort of resistance to it. 

What's important for me personally is that they do the character justice whatever method they decide to take. There are pros and cons to any of these methods. Pros would be how I hope they do it, and cons ofcourse if they fail at giving Leia justice.

1.) kill her off
pro- writing it to fit her arc and Kylo Ren's arc. Needs to involve closure.
con- sweeping her under the rug

2.) CGI
pro- Continues her story. Leia remains an active character and will still look like Carrie.
con- obvious AF. cringy. really limited range of acting.

3.) Recast
pro- same as 2 but with a new face
con- TPTB and new actress will get loads of flack. especially if new actress fails to make Leia reminiscent of Carrie.

A lot could still happen. I just hope they do right by her. Doing Leia justice is doing Carrie justice.
@Rei of Sunshine

This is a very clear and concise summary of the situation.  There is no silver lining here.  A beloved woman has died.  And just like when anyone loved dies, there is nothing left but to make the best of what you still have.  Here there are grieving family, friends and coworkers.  There is also left an epic storyline, that has become a global modern myth, that has still been partially left untold.  There is a groundbreaking character.  And last, but certainly not least, there is the legacy of a brilliant writer and iconic actress whose performances and very face is cherished by billions.  All these interests and considerations can line up with one another if the family and Carrie wanted the character to go on and the part is recast well, but at the same time it is just as possible that these various interests will not line up, and KK and the rest of LF will have to decide what to prioritize.

I agree with those who say that the Dumbledore situation was different.  It absolutely was, but it was the closest analogue that I could think of.  To get closer in terms of similarity, one would have to think of a horrible situation like if, God forbid, one of the trio of Daniel Radcliffe, Rupert Grint or Emma Watson couldn't continue after the Half-Blood Prince.  But even that isn't an on-the-mark analogue since SW's 40-year-history and impact makes it an utterly unique case.  In the law a situation like this would be called a "case of first impression."  And make no mistake, this will be a huge test case here for Hollywood.

If they go the CGI route, it will set a huge precedent and will affect so much ranging to how contracts are written to whether or not the industry more quickly goes down a dark path of "oh well no living actresses have the right look for this part, but Marilyn Monroe would," where they are actually regularly making "composite" actors of part living and part CGI.  Aside from all the problematic implications of something like this, it would also hit actors hard by making many of them essentially voice actors and most likely severely reducing their pay.  However, based on what @snufkin was saying above and some things I have read, not only is this incredibly hard (i.e. the whole lighting with Tarkin thing), but also very, very expensive.  It's one thing to have brief moments with Paul Walker in FF7 or Phillip Seymour Hoffmann in the Hunger Games, but a whole movie is something else.  Yet, this is the team that just did this with Tarkin/Peter Cushing, so who knows.

@panki mentioned the insurance issue.  And there is no question that LF's rates will go up after two huge claims.  And those claims will reverberate throughout the whole industry market IMO.  There have been situations in the past where certain actors couldn't get roles because no company would insure them.  I know that Robert Downey, Jr. was considered "high risk" for many years, and he may turn out to be again, despite his sobriety, because of recent events.  This actually makes me wonder from a cold business point of view if they will try the recast so that the insurance companies won't have them by the throat ... because if the precedent is set that Leia can be recast without catastrophic damage (there will be some damage no question), then all kinds of people can be recast and Lloyd's won't be able to walk all over everybody for insurance fees? Again, who knows?

I don't know enough about any of this to make any kind of solid argument on these things ... except that we can never forget that this whole thing is a billion dollar business.  Whatever is best for the business will inevitably be among the higher priorities at decision time ... I just hope those priorities line up with doing both Leia and Carrie justice.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by panki on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 6:40 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:For sure tho, whatever happens; killing off Leia, CGI Leia, or Recasting Leia, not everyone will be pleased. No matter what Carrie might've suggested to TPTB, there will always be some sort of resistance to it. 

What's important for me personally is that they do the character justice whatever method they decide to take. There are pros and cons to any of these methods. Pros would be how I hope they do it, and cons ofcourse if they fail at giving Leia justice.

1.) kill her off
pro- writing it to fit her arc and Kylo Ren's arc. Needs to involve closure.
con- sweeping her under the rug

2.) CGI
pro- Continues her story. Leia remains an active character and will still look like Carrie.
con- obvious AF. cringy. really limited range of acting.

3.) Recast
pro- same as 2 but with a new face
con- TPTB and new actress will get loads of flack. especially if new actress fails to make Leia reminiscent of Carrie.

A lot could still happen. I just hope they do right by her. Doing Leia justice is doing Carrie justice.
@Rei of Sunshine

This is a very clear and concise summary of the situation.  There is no silver lining here.  A beloved woman has died.  And just like when anyone loved dies, there is nothing left but to make the best of what you still have.  Here there are grieving family, friends and coworkers.  There is also left an epic storyline, that has become a global modern myth, that has still been partially left untold.  There is a groundbreaking character.  And last, but certainly not least, there is the legacy of a brilliant writer and iconic actress whose performances and very face is cherished by billions.  All these interests and considerations can line up with one another if the family and Carrie wanted the character to go on and the part is recast well, but at the same time it is just as possible that these various interests will not line up, and KK and the rest of LF will have to decide what to prioritize.

I agree with those who say that the Dumbledore situation was different.  It absolutely was, but it was the closest analogue that I could think of.  To get closer in terms of similarity, one would have to think of a horrible situation like if, God forbid, one of the trio of Daniel Radcliffe, Rupert Grint or Emma Watson couldn't continue after the Half-Blood Prince.  But even that isn't an on-the-mark analogue since SW's 40-year-history and impact makes it an utterly unique case.  In the law a situation like this would be called a "case of first impression."  And make no mistake, this will be a huge test case here for Hollywood.

If they go the CGI route, it will set a huge precedent and will affect so much ranging to how contracts are written to whether or not the industry more quickly goes down a dark path of "oh well no living actresses have the right look for this part, but Marilyn Monroe would," where they are actually regularly making "composite" actors of part living and part CGI.  Aside from all the problematic implications of something like this, it would also hit actors hard by making many of them essentially voice actors and most likely severely reducing their pay.  However, based on what @snufkin was saying above and some things I have read, not only is this incredibly hard (i.e. the whole lighting with Tarkin thing), but also very, very expensive.  It's one thing to have brief moments with Paul Walker in FF7 or Phillip Seymour Hoffmann in the Hunger Games, but a whole movie is something else.  Yet, this is the team that just did this with Tarkin/Peter Cushing, so who knows.

@panki mentioned the insurance issue.  And there is no question that LF's rates will go up after two huge claims.  And those claims will reverberate throughout the whole industry market IMO.  There have been situations in the past where certain actors couldn't get roles because no company would insure them.  I know that Robert Downey, Jr. was considered "high risk" for many years, and he may turn out to be again, despite his sobriety, because of recent events.  This actually makes me wonder from a cold business point of view if they will try the recast so that the insurance companies won't have them by the throat ... because if the precedent is set that Leia can be recast without catastrophic damage (there will be some damage no question), then all kinds of people can be recast and Lloyd's won't be able to walk all over everybody for insurance fees? Again, who knows?

I don't know enough about any of this to make any kind of solid argument on these things ... except that we can never forget that this whole thing is a billion dollar business.  Whatever is best for the business will inevitably be among the higher priorities at decision time ... I just hope those priorities line up with doing both Leia and Carrie justice.
@SoloSideCousin

Beautifully said.....especially the part that the priority is to give both Princess Leia and Carrie justice.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 6:51 am

I'am definitely among those who wished a staisfied end for Leia as a character.
ROTJ left her on the margins, TFA brought her back as a General - and begun the the process of the redemption of the creators.
Unlike hers Han's storyarc was completed in TFA - in very good way: from selfish scoundrel - to unselfish father.

If it was only for Resistance part of the plot - I think it would be much easier - give her a heroic death offscreen - and promote Ackbar (or any other logic choice) for temporary leader of the Resistance until Poe or Finn reach the character's maturity to take the leadership.

The real problem I struggle with is her personal journey as a character, most notably as a main antagonist's mother and the woman who in the whole process lost everything on personal level.
We'll how much of it Rian had in mind while working on VIII, at least I do hope for Luke & Leia reunion on screen.
I honestly doubt that Leia and Kylo interact in VIII, and if that scene was planned I am pretty sure it was planend for IX, which makes me sad because no matter what solution they choose it won't be Carrie Fisher.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Jakku on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 8:55 am

If there's a reconciliation scene in IX, that has to be seriously emotional and heavy with close-ups.  I don't see how that can be done with CGI.  They got away with the Peter Cushing CGI because the character was basically expressionless and just standing in a dark room barking orders.

So, if there's a reconciliation, it needs to be rewritten to reduce Leia's input, or they need a real actress.

If I'm bluntly honest, I always thought any reconciliation scene would minimise Leia's part, because Carrie's acting style was not well suited to that kind of 'emoting'.  I thought they'd leave the heavy lifting to Adam Driver, who has the acting chops to carry it off. So all may not be lost, from the point of view of Leia's arc.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Irina de France on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 9:30 am

I might be slightly too optimistic (or not, you decide, lol), but I kind of wonder sometimes if Carrie wasn't somewhat aware she was going to pass away.

Putting this under spoilers in case some people wouldn't want to read it.

Spoiler:
I mean, when The Princess Diarist came out, my first thought was: okay, she's revealing her ANH affair with Harrison Ford, but why didn't she wait for Harrison to pass away before revealing that? I mean, he isn't exactly young anymore, and poor little me thought he would probably pass away before Carrie...

But you know, maybe Carrie published it because she knew she didn't have a lot of time left to live, and maybe she did talk about the book to Harrison Ford and since they both knew she could go away anytime, he let her get it off her chest and publish her autobiography. Also, for someone whose role got diminished in VIII because of health problems, I can't help but think Carrie spent a lot of time in London. It might be that she just wanted to hang out with the cast and travel the less possible, but maybe LF and she were aware she could leave before they started shooting IX and maybe they shot her scenes in advance.

Again, I might be hoping too much, but hey.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 10:01 am

@Irina de France wrote:I might be slightly too optimistic (or not, you decide, lol), but I kind of wonder sometimes if Carrie wasn't somewhat aware she was going to pass away.

Putting this under spoilers in case some people wouldn't want to read it.

Spoiler:
I mean, when The Princess Diarist came out, my first thought was: okay, she's revealing her ANH affair with Harrison Ford, but why didn't she wait for Harrison to pass away before revealing that? I mean, he isn't exactly young anymore, and poor little me thought he would probably pass away before Carrie...

But you know, maybe Carrie published it because she knew she didn't have a lot of time left to live, and maybe she did talk about the book to Harrison Ford and since they both knew she could go away anytime, he let her get it off her chest and publish her autobiography. Also, for someone whose role got diminished in VIII because of health problems, I can't help but think Carrie spent a lot of time in London. It might be that she just wanted to hang out with the cast and travel the less possible, but maybe LF and she were aware she could leave before they started shooting IX and maybe they shot her scenes in advance.

Again, I might be hoping too much, but hey.
@Irina de France

Oh you and I are on the same page entirely. 

Here's to hoping Carrie was too.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Jakku on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 10:09 am

Other reason why Carrie felt it was a good time to tell all?

Spoiler:
After TFA, she would never have to deal with Harrison Ford face-to-face again. With Han dead, HF wouldn't be on set or doing any of the promotional activities. I'm thinking those scenes with him were stressful.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 10:16 am

Lots of good points here, everyone. I agree with @Rei of Sunshine and @SoloSideCousin that there are no ideal solutions here, and the decisions that will be made will be business decisions, not sentimental ones. I'm pretty sure there were emergency meetings held at Lucasfilm even whilst Carrie was still alive in the hospital. With the marketing for VIII set to start soon, time is of essence.

That insurance pay-out is staggering - I don't know how it compares to other similar situations, but from my point of view at least, that's one hell of an amount of money. Harrison's accidents must have been a sobering wake-up call. And it made me wonder if it's possible that they have already shot some green screen footage with the irreplaceable cast members that can be used in case they need to resort to Plan B? By irreplaceable, I mean mainly Carrie and Mark, because they're SW icons. If - God forbid - anything should happen to any younger cast members, I think they'd have no choice but to recast.

I can't guess what they're going to do, though. As a life-long Leia fan, I only hope the character is done justice, whatever they do, and that she isn't brushed under the carpet or her story seriously undermined.

If Leia was meant to die anyway, I could imagine a scene with Kylo meeting a CGI Force ghost Leia at a crucial moment could be tasteful and guaranteed to make everyone in the cinema cry.

But if she wasn't meant to die... it'll probably be harder to write a hasty exit for the character that doesn't leave a bitter taste in everybody's mouths.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 10:17 am

By the way, I never really understood the criticisms of Carrie's acting in TFA. She wasn't given much to work with, but for me personally, Leia's "I want him back" was even more moving than Han's death scene.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 10:34 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:Lots of good points here, everyone. I agree with @Rei of Sunshine and @SoloSideCousin that there are no ideal solutions here, and the decisions that will be made will be business decisions, not sentimental ones. I'm pretty sure there were emergency meetings held at Lucasfilm even whilst Carrie was still alive in the hospital. With the marketing for VIII set to start soon, time is of essence.
@Darth Dingbat

Oh definitely. And I have enough time to get used to it - no matter how I could dislike it.
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