ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Guest on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 2:59 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Well, humanity bit certainly sounds good.

Terrorism... in the current climate I doubt that the majority of the audience are particularly interested in understanding why a terrorist is feeling morally justified doing what they do, to be honest.
@Saracene

Allow me to disagree on that one. If you'd go and ask people in the streets, most of them definitively would say "cut his head off!" But it's a movie and if done well, people could end up sobbing for said terrorist(s) without even consciously realizing the parallels with terrorism on Earth, but it'll be there. Nowadays all you see on terrorists on TV is the terrible things they do. No one is showing how some of them are brainwashed. Why? Probably not in the interest of some people to show that there's more to it all than just bad seeds - as JJ said about Kylo. I actually really like the comparison with terrorism. I liked it from the beginning. I think it's very bold.
@SanghaRen

I agree. Nelson Mandela was once seen as a terrorist... Not that I'm likening Kylo or the First Order to his struggle. Adam is absolutely right, though. George Lucas wrote the original Star Wars to reflect American imperialism in the form of the Empire and the rebels were the Viet Cong resisting the military might of a super power. Plenty of Americans supported the armed struggle in Ireland too, despite the IRA's attacks on mainland Britain and the atrocities at home.

I am in no way defending terrorist actions but I would like to understand more about it. We all should if there's to be any hope of one day resolving the world's problems without armed struggles. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by IoJovi on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 3:03 pm

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Well, humanity bit certainly sounds good.

Terrorism... in the current climate I doubt that the majority of the audience are particularly interested in understanding why a terrorist is feeling morally justified doing what they do, to be honest.
@Saracene

Allow me to disagree on that one. If you'd go and ask people in the streets, most of them definitively would say "cut his head off!" But it's a movie and if done well, people could end up sobbing for said terrorist(s) without even consciously realizing the parallels with terrorism on Earth, but it'll be there. Nowadays all you see on terrorists on TV is the terrible things they do. No one is showing how some of them are brainwashed. Why? Probably not in the interest of some people to show that there's more to it all than just bad seeds - as JJ said about Kylo. I actually really like the comparison with terrorism. I liked it from the beginning. I think it's very bold.
@SanghaRen

I agree. Nelson Mandela was once seen as a terrorist... Not that I'm likening Kylo or the First Order to his struggle. Adam is absolutely right, though. George Lucas wrote the original Star Wars to reflect American imperialism in the form of the Empire and the rebels were the Viet Cong resisting the military might of a super power. Plenty of Americans supported the armed struggle in Ireland too, despite the IRA's attacks on mainland Britain and the atrocities at home.

I am in no way defending terrorist actions but I would like to understand more about it. We all should if there's to be any hope of one day resolving the world's problems without armed struggles. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.

@Mrs Ben Solo

My thoughts exactly and beautifully said. cheers
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Saracene on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 3:09 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Well, humanity bit certainly sounds good.

Terrorism... in the current climate I doubt that the majority of the audience are particularly interested in understanding why a terrorist is feeling morally justified doing what they do, to be honest.
@Saracene

Allow me to disagree on that one. If you'd go and ask people in the streets, most of them definitively would say "cut his head off!" But it's a movie and if done well, people could end up sobbing for said terrorist(s) without even consciously realizing the parallels with terrorism on Earth, but it'll be there. Nowadays all you see on terrorists on TV is the terrible things they do. No one is showing how some of them are brainwashed. Why? Probably not in the interest of some people to show that there's more to it all than just bad seeds - as JJ said about Kylo. I actually really like the comparison with terrorism. I liked it from the beginning. I think it's very bold.
@SanghaRen

Oh for sure, it's completely possible to make the audience feel sympathy for an individual character. But I meant more in terms of broader ideology, and the idea of the audience seeing things in terms of, there are just two sides with their own goals and motivations.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by snufkin on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 3:16 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Like I've said, I'm far more interestied in hearing what the people closest to the characters have to say versus employee Twitter sniping. The humanity part is interesting because it was there in TFA, why else would so many fanboys be complaining about him being "emo, wuss, crybaby, et cetera?" Haha, unless the things they can be more open about in the 2nd is "his very obvious and awkward crush on Rey" ; ).  And here's hoping at least one of the Mystery Boxes that gets opened is whatever the f**k happened with Max Von Sydow's character to result in murder.
@snufkin

Even if there's no kiss or evidence of anything mutual happening between them, I do fully expect that Kylo's obvious and awkward crush on Rey will be a lot more evident.

As far as Lor San Tekka goes, unless they abandon that plot point all together, I'd think we'd see that character again when they explore Ben's backstory/fall.
@ISeeAnIsland

I'll be really surprised if they don't at least revisit something with the LST thread and how it played into "destroyed it all." Also be surprised if it's not a more complicated situation, where bad s**t happened that Ben was the victim of, but that turned into a tragedy because he didn't keep his worse tendencies (anger at his family, youthful hubris, arrogance) in check when responding. And that turning to the DS/FO/new persona is a way of hiding from the parts of himself he hates for being "weak and foolish" Kind of like the Jane Eyre example mentioned here before - you know that 20 year old Rochester was taken advantage of and tricked into a bad situation. So you're sympathetic to that part of his history. But how he responds to the situation and especially in not being honest/trying to manipulate Jane because he's in love with her is  selfish and self serving (those concepts again). Or other example I always harp on, Star Wars loves David Lean. Ben/Kylo seems an awful lot like Tom Courtenay's character in Dr. Zhivago, sensitive and idealistic man who goes from good hearted teacher to cold blooded military operative because of insecurities about his strength and masculinity.

As for the crush, I know I'm not supposed to like JJ, but I'll always be a fan for Felicity. Everytime I see the word crush, I immediately think of Ian Gomez's character, Javier, who always teases Felicity about her "cronch on Ben-yah-meeen" (yep, her love interest is also named Ben). My guess would be the painful and obvious crush will be overt and also play into the larger tragedy of what could have been for him, both potential Jedi as Luke's student and what could have been if he and Rey had met under better/normal circumstances.



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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 3:35 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Well, humanity bit certainly sounds good.

Terrorism... in the current climate I doubt that the majority of the audience are particularly interested in understanding why a terrorist is feeling morally justified doing what they do, to be honest.
@Saracene

Allow me to disagree on that one. If you'd go and ask people in the streets, most of them definitively would say "cut his head off!" But it's a movie and if done well, people could end up sobbing for said terrorist(s) without even consciously realizing the parallels with terrorism on Earth, but it'll be there. Nowadays all you see on terrorists on TV is the terrible things they do. No one is showing how some of them are brainwashed. Why? Probably not in the interest of some people to show that there's more to it all than just bad seeds - as JJ said about Kylo. I actually really like the comparison with terrorism. I liked it from the beginning. I think it's very bold.
@SanghaRen

Oh for sure, it's completely possible to make the audience feel sympathy for an individual character. But I meant more in terms of broader ideology, and the idea of the audience seeing things in terms of, there are just two sides with their own goals and motivations.
@Saracene

Gotcha. I am a pessimist but I have sometimes surges of idealism, which I don't understand myself Smile And in these brief moments of idealism, I believe that it only takes understanding one individual to start changing your view on the whole group of people this individual represents. It's the racist who suddenly understands and appreciates a person of color and starts questioning his/her racist beliefs and behavior. Sometimes this questioning is not even conscious, but gradually the person's view is changing.

I think they will not use the word terrorist to promote the movie. Only fans would know about it. But I like the idea that the seed of understanding is planted.

Ok, maybe I should go back to my pessimist self now. Too much idealism at once is not good for me Very Happy
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by EchoBase on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 3:44 pm

Here's the full episode: http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2017/1/4/adam-driver-on-girls-star-wars-scorsese

When Larry King talks about Kylo Ren being a villain, look at Adam's face, it's very telling.
And he asks him, if Kylo Ren lives in Ep VIII, Adam laughs nervously and replies: "it depends on what you mean by living."

Very curious. Or is he just joking around?

Maybe Kylo Ren won't survive EpVIII but Ben will?
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Xylo Ren on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 4:40 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:From his Larry King interview

"Without giving away any spoilers, what’s one aspect about Kylo Ren you are excited for fans to see in the next film?"





http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2017/1/4/adam-driver-previews-star-wars-viii






PLOT POINTS WILL BE EXPLAINED KYLO REN I'M READY FOR YOU BABY
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Hasi on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 4:44 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:From his Larry King interview

"Without giving away any spoilers, what’s one aspect about Kylo Ren you are excited for fans to see in the next film?"





http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2017/1/4/adam-driver-previews-star-wars-viii

Aaaaaand once again, we were right. Everything is proceeding as we have foreseen. *sips tea*
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 4:46 pm

@EchoBase wrote:Here's the full episode: http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2017/1/4/adam-driver-on-girls-star-wars-scorsese

When Larry King talks about Kylo Ren being a villain, look at Adam's face, it's very telling.
And he asks him, if Kylo Ren lives in Ep VIII, Adam laughs nervously and replies: "it depends on what you mean by living."

Very curious. Or is he just joking around?

Maybe Kylo Ren won't survive EpVIII but Ben will?
@EchoBase

Interesting post un Tumblr by @bentages. I find it pretty telling Smile
http://bentages.tumblr.com/post/155397541055/without-giving-away-any-spoilers-whats-one

I don't know how to interpret Adam's expressions and answers but I get the sensation that he's quite genuine in general even if he wouldn't reveal things such as "Rey is very forgiving" but he doesn't seem to be a very good liar either while being interviewed. I remember this interview when Jimmy Kimmel asked him if one would see his face in TFA and he found nothing else to say than "I don't know if I can say that" while looking at J.J Abrams with "please help me!" eyes until J.J. came to the "rescue" Very Happy
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 4:47 pm

Haha! We all had the idea to use the same post at the same time Wink Too bad that some Antis made a Reylo block list on Tumblr because it would be cool if they would see that post on Tumblr + Adam's interview on Larry King


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 4:56 pm

@snufkin : You're not supposed to like JJ?  Very Happy It really looks like the new trend, doesn't it? I like him and I'll wear a T-shirt saying so in a room full of fanboys spitting on him. I was angry with him during AshGate, but he really does not deserve all the criticism. I was hooked to Lost - although I did not see the last season, only the last 2 episodes due to moving. And I love what he did with Kylo. So I won't follow that trend.

About the Larry King show.

Did AD read our discussion in another thread on our (my) worry of a disconnect between VII and VIII for Kylo? It's like the answer comes right from his mouth. Plot points will be explained and make sense. Fine. We trust you, Adam.

I can see how some parts of the fandom will rejoice at his hesitation in answering the question on bonding with the castmates of SW. You don't need to make buddies with your colleagues to do your job.

I prefer not to overthink that "living" answer.

You know the way Larry King interviews AD reminds me of a senior manager who some years ago suddenly stopped talking business and started to question me during lunch about my cat. The questions came one after the other (color, look, how did I get her, etc) and I was like "what?", always a bit startled somehow because it felt like there was no thread in the series of questions. He also sat there like Larry King, arms crossed and looking very serious, but not in a threatening way, just serious.


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by IoJovi on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 4:57 pm

OMG.  affraid Jumping

This is the best thing I've seen in weeks.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Rogue Rey on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 5:13 pm

@reylo1992 wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Here's the full episode: http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2017/1/4/adam-driver-on-girls-star-wars-scorsese

When Larry King talks about Kylo Ren being a villain, look at Adam's face, it's very telling.
And he asks him, if Kylo Ren lives in Ep VIII, Adam laughs nervously and replies: "it depends on what you mean by living."

Very curious. Or is he just joking around?

Maybe Kylo Ren won't survive EpVIII but Ben will?
@EchoBase

Interesting post un Tumblr by @bentages. I find it pretty telling Smile
http://bentages.tumblr.com/post/155397541055/without-giving-away-any-spoilers-whats-one

I don't know how to interpret Adam's expressions and answers but I get the sensation that he's quite genuine in general even if he wouldn't reveal things such as "Rey is very forgiving" but he doesn't seem to be a very good liar either while being interviewed. I remember this interview when Jimmy Kimmel asked him if one would see his face in TFA and he found nothing else to say than "I don't know if I can say that" while looking at J.J Abrams with "please help me!" eyes until J.J. came to the "rescue" Very Happy
@reylo1992

He has a very expressive face so lying must be difficult when you know your face is going to somewhat give the game away or at least convey clues.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 5:16 pm

Two words: STAR DUST lol!
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Saracene on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 5:29 pm

I like JJ. He's got many faults as a director but he's also phenomenally good with other things. His casting instincts in particular are probably the best in business.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 5:46 pm

Lovely interview from Adam! Humanity is a really nice word to use with regards to Kylo's future. And don't make anything of the "living" response, it's just your typical non-answer from someone who can't give anything away.

And as for the recent hate directed at JJ I think it was pretty predictable, especially given that Rogue One was a success with the SW audience. People love to direct their frustration at easy targets. JJ is an easy, unreachable target, and a simple person to blame when you don't get your way.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by BastilaBey on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:03 pm

Watching the full interview, Adam says he finds it pretty frustrating to be constantly told his character is evil, when he knows kylo thinks he's doing the right thing.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:06 pm

He bonded with Daisy CALL 911
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by ZioRen on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:10 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:Watching the full interview, Adam says he finds it pretty frustrating to be constantly told his character is evil, when he knows kylo thinks he's doing the right thing.
@BastilaBey

This isn't the first time Adam has pushed back against the idea that Kylo is evil and stressed his humanity. This bodes extremely well for what we might see for the character going forward!

Also, can anyone give direct quotes on this and his words on Daisy? Unfortunately I can't watch the video right now!
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:14 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:Watching the full interview, Adam says he finds it pretty frustrating to be constantly told his character is evil, when he knows kylo thinks he's doing the right thing.
@BastilaBey

This isn't the first time Adam has pushed back against the idea that Kylo is evil and stressed his humanity. This bodes extremely well for what we might see for the character going forward!

Also, can anyone give direct quotes on this and his words on Daisy? Unfortunately I can't watch the video right now!
@ZioRen

The question was if he bonded with cast members and he told that he gets along with Daisy and Oscar
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Saracene on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:16 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:Watching the full interview, Adam says he finds it pretty frustrating to be constantly told his character is evil, when he knows kylo thinks he's doing the right thing.
@BastilaBey

To play a devil's advocate, you can be evil *and* think you're doing a right thing. They're not mutually exclusive. I'm pretty sure Hux thinks he's doing a right thing, too.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by BastilaBey on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:19 pm

@Saracene I don't disagree! That's what's dangerous about villains who aren't doing things for the sake of being evil. I'm guessing it's how it often works in the real world too.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by CienaRee on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:22 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:Watching the full interview, Adam says he finds it pretty frustrating to be constantly told his character is evil, when he knows kylo thinks he's doing the right thing.
@BastilaBey

This isn't the first time Adam has pushed back against the idea that Kylo is evil and stressed his humanity. This bodes extremely well for what we might see for the character going forward!

Also, can anyone give direct quotes on this and his words on Daisy? Unfortunately I can't watch the video right now!
@ZioRen
When Larry asked him whether he bonded with the rest of the cast Adam said that Harrison was nice and that he knew Oscar from before and also said that Daisy was all great which was really nice since the rumours that they don't get along can be put to rest.
I really loved Adam's answer though it's really the best spoiler we've got untill now in terms of Kylo's character.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by CienaRee on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:37 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:@Saracene I don't disagree! That's what's dangerous about villains who aren't doing things for the sake of being evil. I'm guessing it's how it often works in the real world too.
@BastilaBey
Yup,which is why it's often way easier to portay things as black and white in fiction because it's way harder showing how people can commit despicable things while at the same time still seing some humanity in them.It really blurs the lines between good and evil and some of the viewers just don't want to see that reflected in fiction.
Breaking Bad(Rian's also directed a couple of episodes)directed is actually a good example of someone who starts as a protagonist and slowly turns into a villain while justifying his actions by making hismelf believe he's doing it for his family.It reminds me a lot of Anakin and what great potential his fall had had it had better writing.Rian also explores the theme of selfish vs sefless love in Looper whose main character is also similiar to Anakin so I'm very excited to see what he's done with Kylo.If Adam thinks the story's great than I trust him.
This is actually a good quote by the creator of the show:

 "Television is historically good at keeping its characters in a self-imposed stasis so that shows can go on for years or even decades''


I think it's probably the reason why I tend to prefer villians/anti heroes to heroes nowdays  and one of the reasons why I love Kylo so much.You just take risks and show much more multi dimensional personality with villians while you already know what to expect from heroes.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -13

Post by Saracene on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 6:49 pm

I thought that Breaking Bad was one of the best-executed "descent into evil" stories I've seen. I liked how, even at the start, the seeds of what's to come are already there, with Walter's wounded ego and resentment. Everything is well thought-out, one of my least favorite things in TV series is when the writers decide to make a character "darker" because they can't think of what else to do with them, so boom they turn into a jerk.
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