Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Page 1 of 7 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Saracene on Wed 21 Dec - 0:18

Just thinking more about the movie, I’m surprised it took the shape it did, because if you told me the premise – how did the Rebellion get the plans for the Death Star – I’d say it was a setup for a heist film more than anything else. You know, the Rebellion learns about the Death Star and assembles a team who go out and get the plans, every member of the team has some sort of special talent, something goes terribly wrong in the process, etc. etc. It’s kinda what happens in the movie, but it only gets there in the third act, which is BTW where the movie really seems to spring to life for many people. Instead, the two thirds of the movie are taken up with endless detouring where Jyn has to find Forest Whitaker and then they go looking for her father and nothing much actually happens. It’s a looong way to go to set up the actual mission that ultimately counts.
avatar
Saracene
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1326
Likes : 7815
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27
Age : 37
Localisation : Melbourne

http://yggdrasille.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by panki on Wed 21 Dec - 0:34

@Mana wrote:Also, my mom is totally in love with Riz Ahmed. She was happy that 'Finally, there's someone who looks like us' (yeah she doesn't watch a lot of Hollywood movies, so she was pleasantly surprised, but I told her Hollywood was working on improving diversity).
She also thinks Diego Luna is cute Laughing (I agree)
@Mana

I agree with your Mum on all counts.... Very Happy

Also, seeing more diversity in SW has been a great thing. The last time there was someone who gave me the "he/she looks like me" feeling, it was Depa Bilaba in the PT....I guess even Sabine Wren also technically counts (though she is animated)....speaking of which, yesterday I noticed my bank manager looks like a clone of Riz Ahmed..... Razz

_________________
avatar
panki
Moderator

Messages : 2834
Likes : 10287
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

http://starwarstheorist.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Kessel on Wed 21 Dec - 1:38

I actually found Bodhi's defection more believable than Finn's defection. In general, the R1 characters were intentionally less fleshed out than TFA characters so that may be one reason why Bodhi made more sense to me as a defector. Also, Finn's defection is supposed to have "more weight" than Bodhi's defection because of Finn's canon background as a soilder raised by the FO and the fact TFA characters are given more individual attention. I really didn't feel like Finn's background made sense with his defection and personality. I don't really see Finn as a "prior stormtrooper/bad guy." Even while watching TFA, I kind of forgot he was a former ST. I really feel he should have been an ordinary guy from a territory occupied by the FO, rather than someone who grew up in their very ranks.

I think a background like Bodhi's would have worked so much better for Finn. Bodhi was a guy from Jedha, a territory occupied by the Empire, who worked for them (probably as a way to survive), but had an identity and past separate from the Empire. It made sense that he would have the potential to defect if motivated to do so, even if afraid. I agree that his friendship with Galen was not touched on extensively, but that was never going to happen in R1. I got a general feel for it though and perhaps other books, comics could explore it. I'd like to know more about it.
avatar
Kessel
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1023
Likes : 8228
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Saracene on Wed 21 Dec - 1:53

Kessel89 wrote:I agree that his friendship with Galen was not touched on extensively, but that was never going to happen in R1. I got a general feel for it though and perhaps other books, comics could explore it. I'd like to know more about it.
@Kessel89

Was it even touched on, period, let alone extensively? I honestly can’t remember any mention of friendship, just Bodhi saying that Galen sent him.

I agree though that Finn’s characterisation doesn’t make a lick of sense. I wonder if the writers chose the “kidnapped from birth” route so that they could make Finn a completely blameless victim of the FO.
avatar
Saracene
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1326
Likes : 7815
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27
Age : 37
Localisation : Melbourne

http://yggdrasille.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 21 Dec - 2:07

@Saracene wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:I agree that his friendship with Galen was not touched on extensively, but that was never going to happen in R1. I got a general feel for it though and perhaps other books, comics could explore it. I'd like to know more about it.
@Kessel89

Was it even touched on, period, let alone extensively? I honestly can’t remember any mention of friendship, just Bodhi saying that Galen sent him.

I agree though that Finn’s characterisation doesn’t make a lick of sense. I wonder if the writers chose the “kidnapped from birth” route so that they could make Finn a completely blameless victim of the FO.
@Saracene

I'd assumed that Bodhi and Galen had developed a friendship. I don't recall if there were specific lines that made me think that, or whether it was body language, or whether it was my mind simply filling in the blanks for what I expected.

_________________
Hoping Rey is "riding solo" for the ST...
avatar
ISeeAnIsland
Moderator

Messages : 4095
Likes : 21209
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25
Localisation : Seattle, WA

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Kessel on Wed 21 Dec - 2:07

@Saracene wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:I agree that his friendship with Galen was not touched on extensively, but that was never going to happen in R1. I got a general feel for it though and perhaps other books, comics could explore it. I'd like to know more about it.
@Kessel89

Was it even touched on, period, let alone extensively? I honestly can’t remember any mention of friendship, just Bodhi saying that Galen sent him.
@Saracene

It was alluded to briefly.  I've only seen the movie once, but I remember Bodhi saying something to the effect of (I'm paraphrasing ), "this is for you Galen" right before he was killed?

I think there may have been another reference to Galen and Bodhi's frienship, but I honestly can't remember. It's possible there wasn't much else other than Bodhi was there on Galen's request. It wasn't something discussed or explored.

I'll pay more attention to it next time I see it.
avatar
Kessel
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1023
Likes : 8228
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 21 Dec - 4:19

Kessel89 wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:I agree that his friendship with Galen was not touched on extensively, but that was never going to happen in R1. I got a general feel for it though and perhaps other books, comics could explore it. I'd like to know more about it.
@Kessel89

Was it even touched on, period, let alone extensively? I honestly can’t remember any mention of friendship, just Bodhi saying that Galen sent him.
@Saracene

It was alluded to briefly.  I've only seen the movie once, but I remember Bodhi saying something to the effect of (I'm paraphrasing ), "this is for you Galen" right before he was killed?

I think there may have been another reference to Galen and Bodhi's frienship, but I honestly can't remember. It's possible there wasn't much else other than Bodhi was there on Galen's request. It wasn't something discussed or explored.

I'll pay more attention to it next time I see it.
@Kessel89

There was definitely a "this is for you Galen" kind of line.
avatar
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3123
Likes : 13667
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Sacrebleu on Wed 21 Dec - 10:45

@guardienne wrote:too much location hopping. and i did lose the plot a couple of times but it didn't matter because everythign was sign-posted and nothing mattered except all the heroism and look at the heroism and aren't they heroic.
@guardienne

One aspect of the film I really appreciated is that I didn't see the main characters being portrayed as simply heroic and heroes motivated by the greater good of the galaxy because they're, well, heroes.  It struck me that everybody's motive was very personal.  Jyn of course having her mother killed and father stolen from her and wanting to complete for him what he dedicated those stolen years to.  Cassian's story was more vague but he says he's been in this fight since he was 6 years old and that Jyn is not the only one who "lost everything".  Again, personal.  Baze and Chirrut have had their home and purpose in life destroyed by the Empire. (In one trailer you hear Baze saying that the Empire "destroyed our home and now I fight the Empire", though that didn't make it into the movie.)  Saw is somebody who has been brutalized both physically and psychologically by war.  Bodhi's motive I thought was a little too vague.  You don't hear why he defected or why he was bringing a message from Galen to Saw (or at least that I picked up on).  Before he dies he says "this is for you, Galen" so I would assume there was a close relationship between the two.
avatar
Sacrebleu
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 312
Likes : 1124
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 21 Dec - 11:14

@Sacrebleu wrote:
@guardienne wrote:too much location hopping. and i did lose the plot a couple of times but it didn't matter because everythign was sign-posted and nothing mattered except all the heroism and look at the heroism and aren't they heroic.
@guardienne

One aspect of the film I really appreciated is that I didn't see the main characters being portrayed as simply heroic and heroes motivated by the greater good of the galaxy because they're, well, heroes.  It struck me that everybody's motive was very personal.  Jyn of course having her mother killed and father stolen from her and wanting to complete for him what he dedicated those stolen years to.  Cassian's story was more vague but he says he's been in this fight since he was 6 years old and that Jyn is not the only one who "lost everything".  Again, personal.  Baze and Chirrut have had their home and purpose in life destroyed by the Empire. (In one trailer you hear Baze saying that the Empire "destroyed our home and now I fight the Empire", though that didn't make it into the movie.)  Saw is somebody who has been brutalized both physically and psychologically by war.  Bodhi's motive I thought was a little too vague.  You don't hear why he defected or why he was bringing a message from Galen to Saw (or at least that I picked up on).  Before he dies he says "this is for you, Galen" so I would assume there was a close relationship between the two.
@Sacrebleu

I agree completely. They're almost sort of anti-heroes compared to the portrait of rebels in ANH.
I get that we have all different opinions, expectations and tastes - for my part I didn't need much more exposition to get the charatcers and the motivation. In fact, I honestly think that more of exposition would hurt the movie as a whole.



avatar
Darth_Awakened
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3333
Likes : 15196
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Sacrebleu on Wed 21 Dec - 11:24

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Sacrebleu wrote:
@guardienne wrote:too much location hopping. and i did lose the plot a couple of times but it didn't matter because everythign was sign-posted and nothing mattered except all the heroism and look at the heroism and aren't they heroic.
@guardienne

One aspect of the film I really appreciated is that I didn't see the main characters being portrayed as simply heroic and heroes motivated by the greater good of the galaxy because they're, well, heroes.  It struck me that everybody's motive was very personal.  Jyn of course having her mother killed and father stolen from her and wanting to complete for him what he dedicated those stolen years to.  Cassian's story was more vague but he says he's been in this fight since he was 6 years old and that Jyn is not the only one who "lost everything".  Again, personal.  Baze and Chirrut have had their home and purpose in life destroyed by the Empire. (In one trailer you hear Baze saying that the Empire "destroyed our home and now I fight the Empire", though that didn't make it into the movie.)  Saw is somebody who has been brutalized both physically and psychologically by war.  Bodhi's motive I thought was a little too vague.  You don't hear why he defected or why he was bringing a message from Galen to Saw (or at least that I picked up on).  Before he dies he says "this is for you, Galen" so I would assume there was a close relationship between the two.
@Sacrebleu

I agree completely. They're almost  sort of anti-heroes compared to the portrait of rebels in ANH.
I get that we have all different opinions, expectations and tastes - for my part I didn't need much more exposition to get the charatcers and the motivation. In fact, I honestly think that more of exposition would hurt the movie as a whole.
@Darth_Awakened

I tend to agree with you.  I would have liked an additional line or two regarding Bodhi and I thought Saw wasn't integrated into the story very well, but those are minor quibbles.  I felt the film was not meant to be an in-depth character analysis.  For me it was more like a snapshot in time depicting how and why *ordinary* people who have nothing left to lose get caught up in a war.
avatar
Sacrebleu
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 312
Likes : 1124
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by guardienne on Wed 21 Dec - 12:42

@sacrebleu & @darth_awakened

yeah, i guess, i didn't feel drawn in with them. it just felt like, jyn is all despondent until someone offers her freedom (how? what would that entail? how is the rebellion capable of offering freedom? from what?) and then she sees her father's message about how he loved her the whole time... was it not communicated to her why he might be taken from her? what's the deal with her mum? what did saw communicate with her apart from training her for combat? and then abandoned her? for what purpose?

are saw's people kinda like the star war version of al-qaeda, right? so how does that fit with what the movie wants to say? that the rebels are split into factions and there are extremists and they will be taken out if they become too extreme?

like, jyn somehow has a change of heart, but i didn't even realise she felt unloved or felt that her father was betraying her? did i simply not catch that bit? her seeing him seems to be all she needs, when the rebels are convinced he has betrayed them?

why does she not hold a grudge against the empire before that seeing as they killed her mother?

the film not being in-depth character-analysis,.. well you gotta do something to help me relate to these people, no?

this is a pretty good bunch of first thoughts: http://millicentthecat.tumblr.com/post/154635770156/rogue-one-believe-in-their-vision

especially the bit about how the extremists aren't really that extreme.
avatar
guardienne
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3114
Likes : 6276
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 21 Dec - 13:17

Count me in for Bodhi. I like that character a lot. Actually it did not bother me that we don't clearly see his motives or his relationship with Galen. It still felt right. You could really sense the struggle between wanting to do the right thing and being sith-scared. I always come back to Mad Max, but you don't get Furiosa's background or motives in the film, you just understand that she's really angry against Immortan Joe and even the end of the movie does not give you the whole story, which is told in a comic book. You partly get the wives' motives but without showing what they went through - again, the comics are more explanatory and you also get why specifically one, Toast, is angrier and is a bit more distant. Still, you feel it. It's in the way they behave, their expressions, the decisions they make. I love it when not everything is spilled out for you, but you end up connecting with the characters without even knowing why sometimes.

There are a lot of little things that, I think, the actor brought to the character - I don't know the actor btw. I enjoyed the scene when he's flying with K-2SO to rescue the others and then he gets up quickly from the seat once they landed. Maybe I am wrong but I took it as partly avoiding that Cassian sees that he was in the co-pilot seat and I thought it was funny somehow. There's little things here and there that Bodhi does, in the background sometimes, that just make it real. Can't explain it.



Last edited by SanghaRen on Wed 21 Dec - 14:11; edited 1 time in total
avatar
SanghaRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1213
Likes : 6087
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28
Localisation : French living in Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Sacrebleu on Wed 21 Dec - 13:20

@guardienne wrote:@sacrebleu & @darth_awakened

yeah, i guess, i didn't feel drawn in with them. it just felt like, jyn is all despondent until someone offers her freedom (how? what would that entail? how is the rebellion capable of offering freedom? from what?) and then she sees her father's message about how he loved her the whole time... was it not communicated to her why he might be taken from her? what's the deal with her mum? what did saw communicate with her apart from training her for combat? and then abandoned her? for what purpose?

are saw's people kinda like the star war version of al-qaeda, right? so how does that fit with what the movie wants to say? that the rebels are split into factions and there are extremists and they will be taken out if they become too extreme?

like, jyn somehow has a change of heart, but i didn't even realise she felt unloved or felt that her father was betraying her? did i simply not catch that bit? her seeing him seems to be all she needs, when the rebels are convinced he has betrayed them?

why does she not hold a grudge against the empire before that seeing as they killed her mother?

the film not being in-depth character-analysis,.. well you gotta do something to help me relate to these people, no?
@guardienne

I can only surmise, but Jyn was so young when she was forcibly and suddenly deprived of her family.  I can see it being something that she lets go of for a while out of survival necessity, both physical and psychological, and comes back to later.  I think many people do that with traumatic events.  They also change their perspective on tragic events in their lives over the course of decades.

I mentioned above that I didn't feel Saw, or his group, were well incorporated into the rest of the story.  They felt like an awkward appendage to me.  Maybe the parts that would have made sense of them for me were some of the parts that were cut out.

Finally, I don't think we necessarily need in-depth character analysis to identify with the human condition.

But there is no right or wrong to this.  With any fictional film or story there is an element of disbelief suspension.  The inconsistencies either bother us or they don't.  We are either swept up in the characters or we aren't.  My cousin who loves Rogue One could barely sit through Force Awakens because he was so completely uninterested in and unsold on the characters of Rey, Finn, and Kylo.  Everyone's mileage varies.  When we are swept away, it's a magical feeling, which is why we keep watching films even though so many disappoint us.  It's worth slogging through the meh to get to the magic.

I'll take a look at that Millicent post.
avatar
Sacrebleu
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 312
Likes : 1124
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by guardienne on Wed 21 Dec - 14:16

@sacrebleu i don't think i need in-depth character analysis, whatever that means, i can do that in the privacy of my own home, but i'd like for things to feel like they have some emotional logic.

it feels like it was written backwards, there has to be the finding of the floppy disk, and before that we have to nearly split the rebellion in half because otherwise it would have been a concerted effort to begin with and we have to have fundamentalists because otherwise the heroes don't look moderate (even though i'm not sure how moderate i'm supposed to interpret their behaviour (esp cassian) i guess?

of course, your mileage may vary, as always, and i'm clearly in the minority and i'm wondering whether i'm normally making do with the flimsiness of the characterisation or whether the film has failed and i can't answer that.

this is also interesting wrt your earlier discussion of heroism: http://septembriseur.tumblr.com/post/154658051854/for-all-the-talk-about-how-political-star-wars-is

and it's funny given the discussion between us because i would have to support that as a notion, it's great that everyone dies, because that's how it's been set up and that's finally a story going with the consequences for its protagonists XD so believe me, i'm feeling fairly schizophrenic, but i don't think the movie earns it.


Last edited by guardienne on Wed 21 Dec - 14:26; edited 1 time in total
avatar
guardienne
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3114
Likes : 6276
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Sacrebleu on Wed 21 Dec - 14:25

@guardienne

I can't argue with your interpretation.  What you say makes sense to me intellectually.  I can only reiterate that the film worked for me.  I remember once mentioning to you how brutal the Star Wars universe is, and I saw and felt that reflected in this movie.  As I stated earlier, these characters are people with nothing left to lose and I didn't feel manipulated watching them, I felt empathy for them.  On one level I enjoyed the film as a rousing action adventure, but the fact that they all die did elevate it for me even more.
avatar
Sacrebleu
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 312
Likes : 1124
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by CienaRee on Wed 21 Dec - 14:34

@Sacrebleu wrote:@guardienne

I can't argue with your interpretation.  What you say makes sense to me intellectually.  I can only reiterate that the film worked for me.  I remember once mentioning to you how brutal the Star Wars universe is, and I saw and felt that reflected in this movie.  As I stated earlier, these characters are people with nothing left to lose and I didn't feel manipulated watching them, I felt empathy for them.  On one level I enjoyed the film as a rousing action adventure, but the fact that they all die did elevate it for me even more.
@Sacrebleu
I agree with this. For example I never felt that Jyn was an extention of her father or anything like that.I think her finding out the truth was able to heal some of the scars she had carried in herself and helped her made the decision to fight against the Empire while also protecting her father's legacy.I thought these were powerful motivations and  a lot more clearly stated than Rey's at the end of TFA.
My main criticism would probably be in the way they treated Jyn's mom Lyra.I thought the way she died was stupid and the novalization actually makes it worse by having her say that her husband needs her more than her daughter.She could have died fighting for Jyn or later when Jyn's in her teens it just really reminded me of how Padme died because of Anakin becoming Vader and leaving her innocent children which is really unfortuante because I really liked the movie otherwsie.

CienaRee
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 957
Likes : 4744
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 21 Dec - 16:07

To be fair, I have to say my biggest disappointment is Jyn so I guess I can join the minority group too.

I really wanted to like her but I felt no connection. I don't understand her. One minute she's a tough one punching people, the next one she's standing there apathetic, and then she's Miss Rebellion. Her scene with Saw is blah. The guy left her behind when she was 16 and that's it, she's standing there with one little angry reply? But as mentioned by @Sacrebleu, the whole Saw thing just feels off so I can brush that one aside. Then she trusts Cassian at the speed of light. Ok, the guy is cute, but I would have expected her to be a tiny bit more mistrustful. And then the "I am climbing up the cliff where there is a dozen stormtroopers to take down instead of following the direct threat, one guy, who's just a bit ahead of me". To me it does not scream street smart, which I thought she was. The final blow for me was when she confronts Cassian and then accepts his version of the story namely that he chose not to pull the trigger. The guy lied to her face like 10 minutes before and it's not like she saw if he did not pull the trigger willingly or was just impeded. For someone who got let down by her protector at 16 and just started to trust someone to be let down again, I found her reaction unsettling - standing there again. Ok, the guy is cute. At that point, I completely jumped off the Jyn wagon that I was desperately trying to hold on to. For me there was a constant hesitation between toughness and (incredible) naivety in her character and that did not work for me. Actually I have a similar issue with Rey, to a lesser extent.

I am not going to say that it's the worse character ever, far from it, and I do intend to watch the movie a second time, but I am disappointed. And it's a shame. I still shed a few tears when she and Cassian died. Probably because I really wanted to believe in it and the scene is nice. Felicity Jones did her best, but overall it did not work me.
avatar
SanghaRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1213
Likes : 6087
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28
Localisation : French living in Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Sacrebleu on Wed 21 Dec - 16:19

@SanghaRen

I bought into Jyn with her reaction to her father's holographic message.  The actress sold the character to me in that moment.  I think she ultimately went with her gut on Cassian.  

Probably influenced by the fact that he was a cute guy. Smile
avatar
Sacrebleu
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 312
Likes : 1124
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Xylo Ren on Wed 21 Dec - 16:27

@CienaRee wrote:
@Sacrebleu wrote:@guardienne

I can't argue with your interpretation.  What you say makes sense to me intellectually.  I can only reiterate that the film worked for me.  I remember once mentioning to you how brutal the Star Wars universe is, and I saw and felt that reflected in this movie.  As I stated earlier, these characters are people with nothing left to lose and I didn't feel manipulated watching them, I felt empathy for them.  On one level I enjoyed the film as a rousing action adventure, but the fact that they all die did elevate it for me even more.
@Sacrebleu
I agree with this. For example I never felt that Jyn was an extention of her father or anything like that.I think her finding out the truth was able to heal some of the scars she had carried in herself and helped her made the decision to fight against the Empire while also protecting her father's legacy.I thought these were powerful motivations and  a lot more clearly stated than Rey's at the end of TFA.
My main criticism would probably be in the way they treated Jyn's mom Lyra.I thought the way she died was stupid and the novalization actually makes it worse by having her say that her husband needs her more than her daughter.She could have died fighting for Jyn or later when Jyn's in her teens it just really reminded me of how Padme died because of Anakin becoming Vader and leaving her innocent children which is really unfortuante because I really liked the movie otherwsie.
@CienaRee

Oh no, there is no way that is true! HOW CAN SHE SAY THAT??!! See, this is a HuuUUUuuuuggeee trigger? beef with me and stories that do this! The single most thing I hated about the PT (which I love to a loyal fault, by the way) is how Padme died. Before I ever knew how derided the PT was, I always hated that detail, even as a kid I picked up how horrible it is that she "lost the will to live" while giving birth to two beautiful twins! They should've made it clearer that Palpatine was killing her, or make it that Anakin severed her wind pipe or something. Anything more than this powerful former queen and senator...dying because Anakin broke her heart! I cannot!

So this detail about Lyra saying her husband needed her more than her daughter...poppycock! She died in a nonsensical "I'm gonna sacrifice myself because...it's right" way instead of trying to hide away with her young daughter! Even my sister said to me in the theatre "why didn't they just both hide in that bunker?"

Why are writers so bad when it comes to mothers??!!
avatar
Xylo Ren
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1682
Likes : 14525
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 21 Dec - 16:46

@Sacrebleu wrote:@SanghaRen

I bought into Jyn with her reaction to her father's holographic message.  The actress sold the character to me in that moment.  I think she ultimately went with her gut on Cassian.  

Probably influenced by the fact that he was a cute guy. Smile

I am not saying I did not buy into some moments. I did buy into Jyn's reaction to her father's holographic message, but then... Oh, well. The liking for a character is personal taste and often influenced by one's own backstory so if Jyn worked for some people, amen to that. I am just trying to make sense of why it did not work for me. Cassian being cute definitively factored in - hormone levels went up and clouded her judgment Smile

Some of you are reading the novelization? I am not getting anywhere close to it. Not after making the mistake of reading the TFA ones.
avatar
SanghaRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1213
Likes : 6087
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28
Localisation : French living in Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Irina de France on Wed 21 Dec - 17:40

SO I ENDED UP WRITING A 4.5K REVIEW. ELEVEN WORD PAGES. JESUS.

I put this under spoilers since it got really long, so you can just click on one tab to get to see a topic in particular. I tried not to read the thread too much so I wouldn’t get influenced by the above, lol. I did manage to get a general idea, though, by talking about the movie with friends and not having access to a computer yesterday helped me organize my ideas better.

Long story short: overall, I think this makes a great companion piece to ANH, and it fixes a few plot holes the movie had for nearly 40 years. I’m also glad Disney decided not to have SW be like Marvel and force everyone to see every single movie/spinoff/TV series/whatever in order to understand the story. I highly recommend Rogue One, obviously, but thankfully, you don’t have to see it to understand the main saga movies. They still stand well on their own.

Rogue One… like, I said, I preferred it to TFA, but I’m not so sure anymore? It’s actually pretty hard to compare them both. TFA was basically Disney and Lucasfilm fixing the mess caused by the prequels while setting the grounds for a riskier story while introducing new stuff, while R1 was all about TPTB showing off they had da chops even if it’s Disney. There’s the emotional attachment too. I love R1, especially the story: the fact that it’s more adult is probably the reason why I’m not sure if I prefer it to TFA, since the R1 story is more appealing to me, but that might also be because of TFA being just one chapter of a story. TFA also feels somewhat a lot more personal to me, and it is what lead me to my SW obsession in the first place. I don’t know if R1 would have been powerful enough to do that.

The main difference between R1 and the saga movies is that the first is really a sci-fi war movie. The saga movies are sci-fi too, but they’re fairy tales in space more than anything else, so that makes their spirit pretty different.

I don’t know if I’ll have time to see it again: as I said, I loved it, but I’m not the kind of person who’ll go and see a movie 4-5 times (I’m also a broke*ss student), but if I have the occasion, I might.

In general (comments in no particular order):


Yep, gritty war movie all right: honestly, I’m really impressed and surprised (in a good way) that it got that gritty. It proves that the franchise is in good hands, and it makes me even more optimistic for Episode VIII. Seriously, the movie was gritty, but there were funny moments, and they were really funny.

The trailers are REALLY misleading, but in a good way. And R1 is indeed not as straightforward as I thought it would be.

A problem the movie had though is that it was SO fast-paced. Like, people complained about TFA being fast-paced, but it’s nothing compared to R1, and there are a lot of parts I wish had received more time but that felt really rushed. Like, for instance, they didn’t expand a lot on the characters’ backstories? I mean, I heard a rumor they’re going to publish a YA novel on Jyn, and I guess they’re keeping the rest of the characters’ stories for comic books or something, but still. I was particularly interested in Bodhi’s backstory and how Galen convinced him to do the right thing and help the Rebellion.

The actors were all GREAT. I liked Felicity Jones, Forest Whitaker, Donnie Yen and Riz Ahmed in particular, but everyone was fantastic.

Honestly, I’m kinda disappointed Jyn was the only girl in the Rogue One gang? (I know, Joan of Arc expy, but still) I mean, of course I already knew Cassian, Bodhi, Chirrut and Baze were all dudes, but the Rebel soldiers who joined them for the battle on Scarif were all dudes as well? Thing is, Bodhi, Chirrut or Baze could have easily been women (okay, maybe not Bodhi, but that’s mainly due to the fact I can’t see anyone else than Riz Ahmed in the role, because he was just that good).

On the plus side, I was worried that the ensemble characters would be sidelined and that there would be a lot of emphasis on Jyn and Cassian instead, but despite being fast-paced, the movie made me really care about K2SO, Chirrut, Baze and Bodhi, so major kudos here.

I also think there was too much emphasis put on Jyn’s kyber crystal necklace for nothing. Chirrut suggests to her to tell her her future by trading him her crystal (which never happens), and we see Jyn meditate at some point with it (and we also know thanks to Catalyst Lyra was a worshipper of the Force and of kyber crystals), but that’s it. It kind of gives me the impression there was supposed to be a lot with it, but that they didn’t have time to do anything with it.

This said, the kyber crystal could still be on Scarif at the time of the sequel trilogy: a kyber crystal could definitely resist an explosion like the Death Star’s and maybe we’ll see it again.

THE SPACE BATTLE THOUGH. And Scarif looked beautiful too. Well, the visuals for this film were a thing of beauty. Most beautiful visuals for a SW film ever.

I LOVED the Deathtroopers. And the Mon Calamari Admiral too.

About the reshoots: I can clearly see they weren’t done to make the movie more kid-friendly, since it was pretty gritty (and I’m glad of that, tbh). I do believe like other people that they probably changed Jyn’s ending and had her die since the Rey Skywalker theory got out of hand and they wanted to prove that Jyn was not Luke’s wife and Rey’s mom.

Jyn:


Jyn’s characterization is overall closer to people’s impression of her in the first trailer than in the second. I expected her to be a mix of Leia and Rey, but she really managed to be her own character and that’s awesome. She’s aloof and tough at the beginning, but she also manages to have very vulnerable moments. I loved her to bits.

(Sidenote: character-wise, Jyn is exactly how I picture Éponine Thénardier from Les Misérables to be like when she’s not puppy-eyeing Marius, and it honestly gave me a bit of a glimpse of “What could have happened if Les Mis was in space and that Éponine joined les Amis de l’ABC instead of clinging to Marius)

Well, honestly, Rogue One is totally Les Misérables in space.

I would have loved to see Jyn fight more. Like, sure, her job on Scarif was to go and grab the Death Star plans with Cassian, and we got to see her fight on Jedha, but I would have loved to see her fight on Scarif too.

Felicity Jones was GREAT, just as great as I expected. I really hope R1 gives her more acting opportunities, since she’s one of my favorite actresses. I think my favorite moment of hers is when Jyn sees Galen’s message. It’s one of her most vulnerable moments: she’s crying, even though she’s clearly doing her best to hold back her tears, and there’s no effort done to make it look “pretty” like it can happen sometimes in movies. It made it all very realistic and helped me connect to the scene (and start tearing up a bit).

Kathleen Kennedy was right to compare her to Joan of Arc: she died a martyr, and the Rebellion did give up on her, her father and the Death Star’s destruction at some point.

Galen/Lyra/Galen and Jyn:


An issue R1 has is that I feel like you need to read Catalyst to understand the movie well enough: Galen and Krennic’s connection pre-R1 was barely developed in the movie (even though we get a flashback and there are clues in dialogues here and there). I also wish I could have seen more of Krennic and Galen together. It didn’t feel enough in R1, considering all the previous emphasis that had been put on them.

Honestly, to explain that backstory, there should have been a crawl at the beginning. Also. the font for the title was horrible. I don’t understand why they didn’t use the same they had for the trailers.

Also, I knew it was definitely a possibility that Lyra might die at the beginning of the movie, but I’m so glad I read Catalyst beforehand since she was hands down the best character in it, because her death was so rushed. She died fighting, at least.

Also, I don’t know if I’m the only one who noticed, but I noticed that when Galen died, he had a wound at the same spot Lyra had when she got shot. Sad

There were only three father-daughter moments between Galen and Jyn, but BOY WERE THEY EFFECTIVE.

STARDUST. GAH.

I thought Galen had chances of surviving, but I was also prepared to see him die. I didn’t expect it to happen in the middle of the movie, though. But when Jyn went to find her father and that I knew she was going to have another scene on Yavin IV with the Rebellion thanks to the trailers, that was when I started telling myself: “Welp, I think Galen won’t make it out of that hellhole of a planet.”

Honestly, after reading Catalyst, seeing Galen talk about how he learned to lie to save everyone made me tear up.

I realize it now, but after seeing Galen and Lyra in the movie after reading about them in the book… Galen is exactly like my dad and Lyra exactly like my mom. I mean, thinking about it brings tears to my eyes, lol. So when I saw Galen’s death scene, it was like seeing my dad dying… good lord.

This said, considering Jyn’s backstory is having a loving family who had to abandon her for her own safety, and that’s one of the theories I had in mind for Rey and whatever reason she was left on Jakku, I think that means that situation didn’t happen with Rey.

Saw Guerrera:


Man, I’ll never see the Onderon arc in The Clone Wars the way I used to. I just feel so, so sorry for Saw. TCW presented a young man who was willing to fight but was also beautifully heroic while doing so. In R1, we saw a broken man who was definitely unhinged. The interrogation with Bodhi was pretty dang disturbing (TENTACLES), and it makes the oh-so-dreaded interrogation scene in TFA with Rey and Kylo look like a tea party.

Also, I can sort of (and I repeat, sort of) understand why Saw left Jyn behind back when she was a teenager, but JESUS, THAT WAS HARSH. LIKE, CAN YOU JUST LEAVE HER TO SOMEONE YOU TRUST INSTEAD? OH RIGHT, YOU DON’T TRUST ANYONE, SAW. Also, when he and Jyn met again, and that he had that half-smiling, half-scared look on his face while asking her if she had come to kill him to get revenge, I actually thought he’d go crazy enough to try and kill her in “self-defence” before Jyn would be able to pull out anything from him.

But heh, no wonder Mon Mothma and the Rebellion are a bit weary of Saw. I’d probably feel that way too (even if it’s made clear the Rebellion is not made of saints AT ALL, but more on that later). I said once I believed Saw Guerrera was one of those guys who get worse as they grow older, AND BOY WAS I RIGHT.

It was scary, though: Saw was basically Vader, with all his robotic prosthetics, but he was on the Rebellion’s side. And like Vader, he’s not afraid of committing mass murder. But you know, it’s for a good cause. *le sigh*

I was right to guess his last words would be “Save the dream”. Sad

His death is so sad, though. I think he realizes at that moment he’s off the edge, and just the way he says he’s tired of running. And he goes and accepts death like a hero.

I've seen this is a polarizing opinion at best, but I thought Forest Whitaker did a FANTASTIC job.

Vader/VADER’S CASTLE HOLY SITH I’M STILL LAUGHING MY *SS OFF (in a good way):


Vader had only two scenes, but REALLY GOOD SCENES. And that was all I expected and asked for.

So it was indeed Vader in that tank, and the kneeling figure is a minion of his. I’m gonna call him Igor from now on, f*ck his canon name, he looked like he had stepped straight out of Frankenstein or something.

Honestly, that makes me wonder whether that guy could be a Knight of Ren, considering it’s heavily implied they were there way before Kylo stepped in? Like are they Vader worshippers or something? Is Kylo their master since he’s the last remaining Vader relic?

Also, GOOD LORD, BUT VADER’S CASTLE

VADER’S CASTLE

IT WAS SO EXTRA

LIKE I KNEW YOU WERE A DRAMA QUEEN, ANAKIN SKYWALKER, BUT GOOD LORD

A CASTLE IN THE MIDDLE OF LAVA

ON MUSTAFAR

I WILL NEVER LIVE THAT DOWN UNTIL I DIE

(I’m ready to bet my a** Kylo Ren has wet dreams of a Vader castle in the middle of lava from where he rules the galaxy with Rey on his side.)

(I WILL FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED GRANDFATHER)

(I’LL BUILD MYSELF A F*CKING CASTLE IN THE MIDDLE OF F*CKING LAVA BECAUSE THAT’S F*CKING EDGY)

Okay, jokes put aside, it actually kinda makes sense for Vader to have his home on Mustafar? It’s where he got his limbs cut off and he got badly burned, and where he thinks his wife and his children have died. Plenty of opportunity to meditate and concentrate on rage and past trauma to fuel Dark Side power.

Seeing him choke Krennic was so satisfying. Especially that I came out of the movie hating Krennic’s guts (I’LL COME BACK TO HIM LATER). “Be careful not to choke on your aspirations, Director.” PRICELESS.

I hate to say this, but Vader cutting through the Rebel soldiers like butter was awesome too. Seriously, they were passing the Death Star plans from one hand to another, and the suspense was so well-done with the soldiers’ utter terror I was actually worried they wouldn’t make it to Leia, even if I knew perfectly well that they would thanks to A New Hope.

Also, I can see where Kylo Ren got his fighting style from.

Cassian:


Honestly, Cassian was the biggest surprise of the movie. I might have been influenced by Diego Luna and how much of an absolute dork he is in interviews, but I expected Cassian to be more of a straight-up heroic kind of character. BUT HE WASN’T.

Like, I fell in love at first sight with the dude… then he shot the messenger in cold blood. Jeez. It even took me a moment to process that: I was telling myself at first that he probably got shot by a Stormtrooper, but then, after a few seconds, I realized: “Oh, no. It was Cassian. Oh s***.”

It’s kinda horrifying, though: Cassian mentions once he’s been fighting since he’s six years old, and that is so. f****ing. Young.

We got to see a way darker perspective on the Rebellion, and that was great: just how he got assigned to kill Galen Erso and how he reveals later that he had to do all kinds of dirty jobs and murders for the Rebellion… you can never be all white and innocent when you fight the Empire. So considering they showed more of an ugly side of the Rebellion, I’m hoping they’ll do the same for the upcoming saga movies.

I’ve seen people pointing out similarities between Cassian and Kylo, as well as some elements of Jyn and Cassian’s dynamic that might show up in Rey and Kylo’s. Both Cassian and Kylo got brainwashed to an extent, and each in their own way, to believe that they’re absolutely doing the right thing by doing what they do. But neither of them are a bad seed, and in Cassian’s case, it is Jyn who encourages him to fight for the right cause and do it the right way. But it’s not Jyn who drags him around to do it: it’s made obvious he makes a clear choice for himself. I think we’re going to see something similar with Kylo and Rey, in which Rey encourages Kylo to choose the right side without using any direct influence, and ultimately, it is Kylo who makes a clear choice for himself.

Anyway, thanks to Diego Luna’s charm, Cassian manages to be a bit of a dork and a bit messed up all at the same time. He kind of reminds me of Atton Rand from KOTOR II.

Jyn and Cassian:


Yep, R1 had a romance, and that was Jyn and Cassian. Or if you prefer, Rebelcaptain. It wasn’t a big sweeping romance, as I expected, and it was very much a slow burn… but at the same time, it never really truly developed, so it really gave a very bittersweet taste of “what could have been”. And it was so well done and still satisfying, and that, my friends, is something that is hard to pull off successfully. So MAJOR KUDOS.

Seriously, Rebelcaptain is going to become a textbook example for me of how to build UST and/or a romance with no kissing and barely any touching along with the 2005 Pride and Prejudice movie. The meaningful glances were great, and that scene in the elevator was gorgeous. I was sure they were going to kiss: they didn’t, but you weren’t left with wanting more either, and that is AMAZING. Seriously, if we get similar interactions between Rey and Kylo in VIII, it’s going to be freaking awesome.

Jyn and Cassian were polar opposites, but not quite in the way I expected, and it was great: Jyn seemed all tough and cynical at first, but then, you realize that deep down, she’s a little girl who loves her father and wants to find him again, and will do anything for him. Cassian looks soft and gentle, but he’s not afraid of doing terrible things for the Rebellion’s cause, even if his softer side is actually his true personality. They bring out the best out of each other, and it’s beautiful.

I honestly couldn’t believe Cassian was dead when Krennic (or was it a Deathtrooper?) shot him. It was just way too rushed, especially considering he was a main character. So I squeed when he showed up again and shot Krennic, but I wasn’t too surprised either.

(I mean, Lyra’s death was so rushed as well I was almost sure for a while she wasn’t dead and she was going to show up later. Heh.)

I can already see people complaining about how Cassian was the one who shot Krennic and not Jyn and also how he dragged her away from Krennic so she wouldn’t finish him, but I can also see why it ended up that way. I think Jyn found herself in the same situation Cassian did when he was six years old: I think that what happened is that he killed whoever was responsible for his parents dying Sad He didn’t want Jyn to have to carry that burden, so that’s why he saved her from Krennic and dragged her away.

REST IN f****ing PIECES, SKYMOM. *SOB* (I AM A TERRIBLE TERRIBLE PERSON)

The beach scene was a thing of beauty. Reminiscent of D-Day, and the way Jyn and Cassian hugged each other, and you saw in their eyes they were about to cry, and they looked scared but resigned all at the same time… it was beautiful and horrifying at all the same time, and I was literally sobbing. Also, when the explosion reached them, it looked like a sunset, and it didn’t look destructive, and it was as if they were going to get swallowed by light… GAH.

Krennic:


I honestly hate the guy’s guts, not gonna lie. But it’s not that I find him boring like a lot of people did (even though I do think he was overhyped with that stupid cape and everything), he was just… different, compared to other SW villains.

I think one of the reasons why I hate Krennic so much is because he reminds me a lot of Petyr Baelish aka Littlefinger from A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones, and heaven knows I hate Littlefinger.

Anyways, that guy was a total megalomaniac in Catalyst, and he was exactly that in the movie, except that he is also slimy and smug af, and when he sees that the situation is getting out of control (well, rather, out of HIS control), he snaps and he loses his cool. Bad leader. I think the scariest part about him is that he’s not a hammy or unrealistic villain like Palpatine or Darth Maul. He’s basically your typical slimy employee who will do anything, including crushing you, to get a promotion. Doesn’t help that that dude is responsible for the Death Star, and responsible for tearing the Ersos apart (because Galen, Lyra and Jyn clearly loved each other very much). And that makes him TERRIFYING.

I don’t know, Tarkin felt a lot more villainy to me than Krennic, but that might be due that Tarkin is more of a classic villain, and he’s the perfect Imperial even Vader respects: Krennic is totally dwarfed by him.

I mean, furthermore, Krennic is a guy who tries to be in the Imperials’ VIP club, but he fails in so many ways: he doesn’t have the evil charisma at all, nor the class. I mean, the cape even makes him look like a kid trying to dress up like a grownup so he can be taken seriously.

Just when he shoots Galen’s fellow engineers: that is such a dumbass thing to do. Sure, they’re traitors, but you wasted serious resource there. You don’t do that in wartime, and that just proves how much of an incompetent Krennic really is.

So yeah, people have a point to say he’s a weak villain, but that was 100% intentional imo.  

It is so ironical and darkly hilarious how Krennic dies because of the Death Star. Catalyst only helps you appreciate that detail even more.

Props to Ben Mendelssohn for making him that despicable, though, especially considering he’s actually a huge dork in real life.

K2SO:


Heh, so much for me hoping K2SO would be HK-47 but canon. But god, he was so funny. I was sure Cassian was going to call him Mom at some point.

AND I NEVER THOUGHT A DROID DYING WOULD MAKE ME EMOTIONAL, BUT HERE I AM. (But yeah, let’s be fair: I’d probably cry if BB-8 died.)

Bodhi Rook:


Bodhi Rook was really what TV Tropes would call an Ensemble Darkhorse. I thought to myself all the characters were going to be likeable, but I never thought I’d like Bodhi that much.

He reminded me a lot of Finn, to be honest: they both had somewhat the same type of humor, and their backstory was sort of similar.

Riz Ahmed was amazing, and it makes me sad he won’t show up in any other SW films, because he’s just that good. I do hope R1 will help boost his career and he’ll show up in other movies, though.

Jedha/Chirrut and Baze:


I knew Jedha had some mythology behind it and everything, but I never expected it to be all about the Whills. I choked on my drink when they mentioned it. I guess that makes them officially canon. This makes the TFA novelization veeeery interesting…

Also, I’d LOVE to get to know more about Jedha. It was really underdeveloped in R1. GIMME MORE.

Also, it was pretty dang obvious Jedha was very much inspired from the Middle East? Saw Guerrera and his terrorist group were just the cherry on the cake. Talk about political commentary.

I really didn’t expect Chirrut and Baze to be ex-Temple guardians, though. That was cool.

(Okay, crazy theory ahead, but considering Chirrut and Baze are both played by Asian actors and that both of them are former Temple guardians, I kind of wonder now if Kelly Marie Tran’s character will have a connection to the Jedha temple? I mean, I know she’ll be in the Resistance plot with Finn, but she could maybe be the bridge between a Force plot with Rey and Kylo and a Resistance plot with Finn and Poe.)

I knew I was going to love Chirrut, and I did. AWESOME CHARACTER. Non-Jedi Force sensitive ftw. He’s hands down the purest character in the SW universe. When he gets captured by Saw’s gang and has a hood placed on his head: “Are you kidding me? I’M BLIND” Best line in the movie, hands down.

CHIRRUT’S DEATH. HIS SACRIFICE. GAH.

Him caressing Baze’s face though. It was so gay.

BAZE BELIEVING IN THE FORCE AGAIN

WHYYYYYYYYY

I mean, everyone’s death was so sad.

ZE FANSERVICE:


Tarkin was so freaking petty with Krennic, but it was again really satisfying to see (but again, I kind of feel like people should have read Catalyst to fully appreciate that antagonism? But hey).

I honestly thought the CGI was great. I’ll maybe notice the flaws if I see the movie a second time, but I was too busy gaping at the screen while looking at Tarkin and going like “OMG HE LOOKS SO MUCH LIKE PETER CUSHING AND HE SOUNDS JUST LIKE HIM HOOOOOOW”

Seeing CGI Leia was eerie too. My throat actually tightened and I just went “OMG IT’S HER”. Seriously. Despite the Reddit rumor that Ingvlid Delia would be playing Leia (which proved itself to be true), I was sure we were going to see Billie Lourd with a brunette wig, but NO, LEIA WAS THERE. AND THAT ONE LINE. HOPE GUYS. HOPE.

Seriously, Leia is a bad*** in R1 even if we don’t get to really see it. She just flies off the battle scene like nobody’s business, even if it took so, so much effort to get the Death Star plans to her. Stomach of steel amirite? I mean, SHE’S NINETEEN YEARS OLD. SHE’S YOUNGER THAN I AM.

I was so happy to see Bail Organa too. And that Obi-Wan mention. And Papa Bail being so proud of his little girl. I mean, come to think of it, Bail assigning that mission to Leia was probably the last time they saw each other. Sad

MON MOTHMA THOUGH.

It was nice to see R2-D2 and C-3PO, even if their appearance was a bit… well, it really felt like pure fanservice. I expected to see them with Leia, so seeing them in the hangar on Yavin IV felt like it came out of nowhere. It was great to see them, though.

I got to get a glimpse of the Ghost from Star Wars Rebels. I didn’t manage to hear the “General Syndulla”, though. Makes me sad. But at least I’m not scared for Hera anymore when it comes to season 3 of Rebels. She’s gonna be fine, guys.

Apart from the darksaber mention, I’m a bit sad there wasn’t more Clone Wars Easter eggs, though. Or maybe I just wasn’t able to spot them. Even though I suspect the brunette Senator at Jyn’s right during the Rebellion meeting could be Lux Bonteri and the guy on the left Korkie Kryze, since I always wondered what happened to those two (AND BO-KATAN), but hey, wishful thinking from my part.

As a last word: BLUE MILK
avatar
Irina de France
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1215
Likes : 6203
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-22
Age : 21
Localisation : Ottawa, Canada

http://cosetteskywalker.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 21 Dec - 17:51

@Irina de France

Just want to say: Wow! what a review!

Admiral Raddus says thanks Wink

avatar
Darth_Awakened
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3333
Likes : 15196
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Irina de France on Wed 21 Dec - 17:53

Lol imagine my review for Episode VIII though. IT'S GONNA BE AWFUL.
avatar
Irina de France
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1215
Likes : 6203
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-22
Age : 21
Localisation : Ottawa, Canada

http://cosetteskywalker.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by Sylvia Snow on Wed 21 Dec - 18:36

So, Vader's castle have a name, it's called "the Dark Monolith" and it was built above a natural Sith Cave that holds its own dangerous secrets

It is described as Darth's own personal hideaway, and is 'an obsidian tower on an inhospitable world' .The Emperor actually demands that Vader live in such an unforgiving nightmare of a place to help fuel his rage and anger. Darth Vader has an assistant on Mustafar named Vanee, who watches over the Dark Lord whenever he meditates in his rejuvenation chamber. The home is said to be a 'stark, modern structure built over an ancient castle full of dark secrets wrote:
avatar
Sylvia Snow
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1377
Likes : 5631
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

Post by CienaRee on Wed 21 Dec - 18:56

@Xylo Ren wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@Sacrebleu wrote:@guardienne

I can't argue with your interpretation.  What you say makes sense to me intellectually.  I can only reiterate that the film worked for me.  I remember once mentioning to you how brutal the Star Wars universe is, and I saw and felt that reflected in this movie.  As I stated earlier, these characters are people with nothing left to lose and I didn't feel manipulated watching them, I felt empathy for them.  On one level I enjoyed the film as a rousing action adventure, but the fact that they all die did elevate it for me even more.
@Sacrebleu
I agree with this. For example I never felt that Jyn was an extention of her father or anything like that.I think her finding out the truth was able to heal some of the scars she had carried in herself and helped her made the decision to fight against the Empire while also protecting her father's legacy.I thought these were powerful motivations and  a lot more clearly stated than Rey's at the end of TFA.
My main criticism would probably be in the way they treated Jyn's mom Lyra.I thought the way she died was stupid and the novalization actually makes it worse by having her say that her husband needs her more than her daughter.She could have died fighting for Jyn or later when Jyn's in her teens it just really reminded me of how Padme died because of Anakin becoming Vader and leaving her innocent children which is really unfortuante because I really liked the movie otherwsie.
@CienaRee

Oh no, there is no way that is true! HOW CAN SHE SAY THAT??!! See, this is a HuuUUUuuuuggeee trigger? beef with me and stories that do this! The single most thing I hated about the PT (which I love to a loyal fault, by the way) is how Padme died. Before I ever knew how derided the PT was, I always hated that detail, even as a kid I picked up how horrible it is that she "lost the will to live" while giving birth to two beautiful twins! They should've made it clearer that Palpatine was killing her, or make it that Anakin severed her wind pipe or something. Anything more than this powerful former queen and senator...dying because Anakin broke her heart! I cannot!

So this detail about Lyra saying her husband needed her more than her daughter...poppycock! She died in a nonsensical "I'm gonna sacrifice myself because...it's right" way instead of trying to hide away with her young daughter! Even my sister said to me in the theatre "why didn't they just both hide in that bunker?"

Why are writers so bad when it comes to mothers??!!
@Xylo Ren
Right?Would it have been so hard to write a scene where Lyra dies fighting so her daughter could get away?It would have made so much more sense and would have stayed true to Lyra's character.Instead we get this:

''We need to keep going.Don't let them see you,okay?''
They moved together,as swiftly as Lyra could manage while squatting out of sight.Her lips were cramping as she led Jyn around the base of a comm spire and stopped again to peer towards the farmhouse.She couldn't make Krennic ast the troopers,couldn't see if Galen had emerged,but the group had halted near the front door.Lyra suddenly pictured the armored figures raising flames,reducing the house to ash and charred metal while her husbad screamed inside...
She knew better.So long as Krennic was in control,Galen would stay alive long after the rest of the were ded.He would have no choice but to work for that man untillhe was old and feeble, until his intellect began to fail him and the Empire determined he was no longer useful.
Lyra realized she'd made a decision.
She unslung the bag,rooted trough the contents until she found what she needed.She set a bundle of clothes in the grass and placed her hands on Jyn's shoulders.The girl was trembling.She met her mother's gaze.
''You know where to go,don't you?''Lyra asked.''Wait for me there.Don't come out for anyone but me.''
Jyn didn't answer.Lyra saw the mousture in her eyes.A voice told Lyra,If you leave her now,she's done.You've taken all her strength away.
But Lyra had commited herself to a path.Her husband needed her more than her daughter.
...Her last thought was:I wish Galen weren't here to see.

WTF is this LF???!!!Seriously how could they think that's a normal behaviour of a mother?It makes Lyra look f****ing terrible.Jyn's eight years old and is clearly terrified and need her.I really hate this especially when earlier Galen's telling Jyn how everything he does is to protect her.
Her death in the movie was stupid but knowing what she was thinking just makes it all the more horribale.

CienaRee
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 957
Likes : 4744
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 7 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum