AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 14:57

Jesus, I'm reading all your theories and I'm blown away.

It would make SO MUCH sense if all of this was true, guys. Shocked
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by snufkin on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 16:04

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Man, I love this theory about Rey's parents possibly being responsible for releasing some ancient dark side evil sealed within the core of a planet. The idea of Snoke being some kind of primal evil that was hidden away for thousands of years is just perfectly satisfying, maybe by the First Jedi? I hope at least that's true. Pls. <3

It would also sort of fit with the mention of Raiders of the Lost Ark comments as an influence on TLJ. Because besides Lawrence Kasdan being involved with writing TFA and consulting on the sequel trilogy, the full backstory he had for Marian sounds similar to this scenario for Rey. A scenario that he said he regreted that didn't make the final cut.  But the full story is that she'd be taken around the globe by her father on relic hunting quests starting from early childhood, one of the relics he has is actually incredibly powerful and dangerous (headpiece to the staff of Ra), he's killed in accident on one of his searches, stranding her in a dangerous backwater where she has to live by her wits and toughen up, and the story kicks into gear when she unwittingly gets mixed up with the Nazi relic hunters (KoR sound exactly like them) and Indy, both looking for this key. And we all know thanks to the sharp eyes of board members here that the teaser of Ache-to mirrors exactly the intro shot of the island in Raiders' final act/opening of the Ark.

Cinephilia & Beyond Article

The Raven Bar scene started filming on stage two while stuntman Martin Grace performed the stunt of the falling statue in the Well of Souls. Located in the Himalayas the Raven was another wonderful creation of Norman Reynolds. The furniture, the drinks on the shelves, the wonderfully sandblasted and old-looking fireplace all in period. And the overall aura of the place is “mountains” and it feels right. This is one of the most dramatic scenes in the film. It introduced the character of Marion Ravenwood but also established the relationship between her and Indy. Unfortunately, in the final cut of the film most of the dialogue in that scene was cut out causing Lawrence Kasdan’s frustration. “Some of the best writing I’ve ever done was in that scene, but all that’s left is its beginning and end.”

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by CienaRee on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 17:40

More interesting info this time between Rax and Palpatine:
Spoiler:

Rax is seeing Palpatine for the first time in 10 years. The Observatory is finished. Rax goes on the ship and Palpatine asks if he has ever played the game of Shah-tezh; similar to dejarik. Palpatine goes through the various pieces in the game: the vizier, the knight, the outcast, the dowager, the disciple, the counselor, the beast, the craft, and the imperator. Palpatine then says that if the imperator falls, the game is over. All the pieces are here to protect the imperator.
He continues: "They have one role. That role is to protect the imperator. If an Empire cannot protect its Emperor, then that Empire must be deemed a failure. It collapses not only because its central figure is gone, but because it must not be allowed to remain! It angers me, to think of an Empire that fails its Emperor. But one must admit that it is possible. And in that possibility, it is wise to play the very long game. It is time I look to the unforgivable outcome and plan for that. You, my son, are the contingency. There are unforeseen costs that must be paid. You may have to be the one who pays those costs, Galli."

And with pregnant Leia:
Spoiler:

Some interesting moments: 1. Leia is talking about being pregnant with Ben. She mentions that he feels more like a light, than a human body. Sometimes bright, sometimes dark. She then says that Luke told her this is normal, that we all have that; "the brighter the light, the darker the shadow" says Luke.
Rolling Eyes Luke FFS you don't get it do you

And a creepy moment regarding Brendolx Hux:
Spoiler:

There is a strange show of power in regards to Hux's children. Rax is in a room with Sloane and wants to show her the power of "his new Empire." He asks the stormtroopers to lower their blasters while a group of 2 dozen children, teenagers and younger, surround the hangar. Rax turns the lights off, blaster fire ensues, and when the lights turn back on, all the stormtroopers are dead. The children stand over them with dark dull blades, skillfully used to pierce through the gap behind their helmets and other vulnerable places in the armour. Hux is overjoyed by their speed and skill. Further, he describes them as beings able to kill without fear and without emotion.
Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by CienaRee on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 18:31

The author's final thought since he finsihed the whole book:

Spoiler:

Anddddd I've finished Empire's End! It's a good thing that today is a statutory holiday....Family Day. I think this is the fastest I've ever read a book.
I don't know if ya'll want me to spoil if they are any deaths within the main group, so I'll leave that open. In the end, Mas Amedda comes to the NR to sign the ceasefire and negotiations. Ben Solo (yes, Solo, verified) is born on the day the treaty is signed. It's unclear if the Eclipse is THE Eclipse, but it was explicitly referred to as the Emperor's SSD.
Interesting notes for Part Five, not included ones already mentioned by /u/puhaul:
During the battle of Jakku, Akbar talks about being a war historian. Mentions the war of the "Ghostfinder fleet versus the Sith armada"
More on these creepy kids; they are kids from Jakku. Rax claims they were already savage, but that the work of Brentol "has only heightened that impulse." At this point, Rax is talking to Armitage Hux about the fact that he will need to take his father's place one day and needs to be able to order these creepy kids around. Mind you, he's terrified of these kids that are on the ship with him. In the end, Armitage orders one to punch another, to which the kid obeys.
Ok! That's all folks! Perhaps it's time to start a new thread, seeing as this has over 500 comments! Hope you have enjoyed the spoilers and will enjoy the book even more!
[EDIT] If you have any questions, please feel free to shoot me a message! Very Happy

Plus info about the epilogue of the book:
Spoiler:

There is an epilogue and a final chapter. The epilogue is Sloane and Hux going out to get the Eclipse in the Unknown Regions.

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Mana on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 18:34

@CienaRee wrote:The author's final thought since he finsihed the whole book:

Spoiler:

Anddddd I've finished Empire's End! It's a good thing that today is a statutory holiday....Family Day. I think this is the fastest I've ever read a book.
I don't know if ya'll want me to spoil if they are any deaths within the main group, so I'll leave that open. In the end, Mas Amedda comes to the NR to sign the ceasefire and negotiations. Ben Solo (yes, Solo, verified) is born on the day the treaty is signed. It's unclear if the Eclipse is THE Eclipse, but it was explicitly referred to as the Emperor's SSD.
Interesting notes for Part Five, not included ones already mentioned by /u/puhaul:
During the battle of Jakku, Akbar talks about being a war historian. Mentions the war of the "Ghostfinder fleet versus the Sith armada"
More on these creepy kids; they are kids from Jakku. Rax claims they were already savage, but that the work of Brentol "has only heightened that impulse." At this point, Rax is talking to Armitage Hux about the fact that he will need to take his father's place one day and needs to be able to order these creepy kids around. Mind you, he's terrified of these kids that are on the ship with him. In the end, Armitage orders one to punch another, to which the kid obeys.
Ok! That's all folks! Perhaps it's time to start a new thread, seeing as this has over 500 comments! Hope you have enjoyed the spoilers and will enjoy the book even more!
[EDIT] If you have any questions, please feel free to shoot me a message! Very Happy
@CienaRee

Spoiler:
so was he born on Jakku?????? Smile
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by CienaRee on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 18:49

@Mana wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:The author's final thought since he finsihed the whole book:

Spoiler:

Anddddd I've finished Empire's End! It's a good thing that today is a statutory holiday....Family Day. I think this is the fastest I've ever read a book.
I don't know if ya'll want me to spoil if they are any deaths within the main group, so I'll leave that open. In the end, Mas Amedda comes to the NR to sign the ceasefire and negotiations. Ben Solo (yes, Solo, verified) is born on the day the treaty is signed. It's unclear if the Eclipse is THE Eclipse, but it was explicitly referred to as the Emperor's SSD.
Interesting notes for Part Five, not included ones already mentioned by /u/puhaul:
During the battle of Jakku, Akbar talks about being a war historian. Mentions the war of the "Ghostfinder fleet versus the Sith armada"
More on these creepy kids; they are kids from Jakku. Rax claims they were already savage, but that the work of Brentol "has only heightened that impulse." At this point, Rax is talking to Armitage Hux about the fact that he will need to take his father's place one day and needs to be able to order these creepy kids around. Mind you, he's terrified of these kids that are on the ship with him. In the end, Armitage orders one to punch another, to which the kid obeys.
Ok! That's all folks! Perhaps it's time to start a new thread, seeing as this has over 500 comments! Hope you have enjoyed the spoilers and will enjoy the book even more!
[EDIT] If you have any questions, please feel free to shoot me a message! Very Happy
@CienaRee

Spoiler:
so was he born on Jakku?????? Smile
@Mana

No,idea the author doesn't say.
EDIT: wait I'm wrong,sorry he says
Spoiler:

A little bit after the battle
They talk about it, it's not in real time. Takes place after the battle of Jakku


Last edited by CienaRee on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 18:55; edited 2 times in total

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Guest on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 18:50

@Mana wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:The author's final thought since he finsihed the whole book:

Spoiler:

Anddddd I've finished Empire's End! It's a good thing that today is a statutory holiday....Family Day. I think this is the fastest I've ever read a book.
I don't know if ya'll want me to spoil if they are any deaths within the main group, so I'll leave that open. In the end, Mas Amedda comes to the NR to sign the ceasefire and negotiations. Ben Solo (yes, Solo, verified) is born on the day the treaty is signed. It's unclear if the Eclipse is THE Eclipse, but it was explicitly referred to as the Emperor's SSD.
Interesting notes for Part Five, not included ones already mentioned by /u/puhaul:
During the battle of Jakku, Akbar talks about being a war historian. Mentions the war of the "Ghostfinder fleet versus the Sith armada"
More on these creepy kids; they are kids from Jakku. Rax claims they were already savage, but that the work of Brentol "has only heightened that impulse." At this point, Rax is talking to Armitage Hux about the fact that he will need to take his father's place one day and needs to be able to order these creepy kids around. Mind you, he's terrified of these kids that are on the ship with him. In the end, Armitage orders one to punch another, to which the kid obeys.
Ok! That's all folks! Perhaps it's time to start a new thread, seeing as this has over 500 comments! Hope you have enjoyed the spoilers and will enjoy the book even more!
[EDIT] If you have any questions, please feel free to shoot me a message! Very Happy
@CienaRee

Spoiler:
so was he born on Jakku?????? Smile
@Mana

Spoiler:
My understanding, from the earlier spoilers, is that Leia is on Chandrila. Unless she leaves there at some point to go to Jakku, which I haven't read in any of the spoilers, I presume Ben was born on Chandrila.

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 18:59

DAMN, I need to read this book.

Spoiler:
I don't know guys, but all of this info just makes me even more adept of dark!Rey.
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by panki on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 22:13

Spoiler:


1. Could this Kiza of Corellia be Rey's mother? Kira and Kiza do sound similar. Now I'm leaning towards Rey being a Palpatine or other dark side user's clone (born of some dark acolyte- something like the scenario in Rosemary's Baby.) I find it especially interesting that Rey can hear the evil ancient voice in SKB forest and Palpatine could hear ..the source of the dark side speaking to him from the Unknown Regions..but Vader couldn't hear the voice.

2. The news that Ben is sensed as light makes me particularly sad because I think Ben appeared in the Han Solo comics and it is obvious he loved Han most of all. In the comic, he is an orb of light who follows Han everywhere and tries to help him.



3. The mask probably has the soul of the dark side user attached to it as a means to cheat death. This concept is similar to one in the EU where Drath Nihilus has his soul attached to his mask because he became a wound in the force after the battle of Malachor. Similarly in canon, maybe dark side users sacrifice the lives of others to get immortality for themselves.



These masks became canon in the Lando comics where hanging around a mask (not even wearing it) corrupted people and made them kill their loved ones.



4. Aphra visits one of these ancient observatories and we see a star map of the galaxy and locations of planets with ancient temples...this helps her locate the citadel of a breakaway force user group. Similarly, maybe Palpatine found these locations and collected force artifacts.

5. Now that Rakata Prime is canon, maybe Snoke is an ancient Rakatan (they used the dark side). Rakatans looked different in the EU but they could always change their look in canon.

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 22:58

So much new info and good theories here to digest at one time! Brain imploding.

As you all know, I've been in the "ancient, primal evil" camp since day one so I'm pretty excited. But I still have a gut feeling that @panki's first instincts were correct and Snoke himself is more like a Lord Cronal type of character. And that the "source of the Dark Side" in the Unknown Regions is something beyond Snoke, something bigger. I dunno. But whether it's Snoke or someone else, I feel pretty confident there's something ancient and terrible at work here.

Something that intrigued me in the spoilers was a possible hint that Palpatine may have had a wife??

Spoiler:
So Palps talks in a space chess metaphor and mentions "the vizier, the knight, the outcast, the dowager, the disciple, the counselor, the beast, the craft, and the imperator". Rax himself is specified as being the Outcast.

And there's a Dowager...??
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 23:27

Huh,
Can't wait to have that book in my hands.
A lot of to chew on.

Spoiler:
One thing I don't get from the spoilers: Armitage guy is our ginger general or not?
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by MyOnlyHope on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 23:44

@Darth Dingbat wrote:So much new info and good theories here to digest at one time! Brain imploding.

As you all know, I've been in the "ancient, primal evil" camp since day one so I'm pretty excited. But I still have a gut feeling that @panki's first instincts were correct and Snoke himself is more like a Lord Cronal type of character. And that the "source of the Dark Side" in the Unknown Regions is something beyond Snoke, something bigger. I dunno. But whether it's Snoke or someone else, I feel pretty confident there's something ancient and terrible at work here.

Something that intrigued me in the spoilers was a possible hint that Palpatine may have had a wife??

Spoiler:
So Palps talks in a space chess metaphor and mentions "the vizier, the knight, the outcast, the dowager, the disciple, the counselor, the beast, the craft, and the imperator". Rax himself is specified as being the Outcast.

And there's a Dowager...??
@Darth Dingbat
Yeah, totally, even just from a storytelling point of view. We know Lucasfilm has the new canon mapped for at least the next decade. I'm sure this is especially true with regard to game-changing plot points, major characters, and any and all overarching mythology. Snoke will likely wind up being the sequel trilogy's big bad (he's the source of conflict for the Skywalker family in the current storyline), but obviously evil needs to live on after the ST. No conflict = no story. What better than some ancient and powerful energy, this "source of the Dark side." This Darkness in the outer reaches might be calling to Snoke, sending out some malevolent signal, in the same way it once called to Palpatine.

I must say, I'm really liking some of the new theories surrounding Rey's potentially Dark background. For once they have the potential to ACTUALLY ADD SOMETHING narrative and character-wise to the story at hand, NOT ONLY in a poetic sense, but ALSO in a "this is actually relevant to the story we're dealing with" sense. We need a simple backstory that can be explained adequately within the context of two films (which as we all know is key for the GA) and expanded upon in ancillary material.
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by SkyStar on Mon 13 Feb 2017 - 23:54

@panki wrote:
Spoiler:


1. Could this Kiza of Corellia be Rey's mother? Kira and Kiza do sound similar. Now I'm leaning towards Rey being a Palpatine or other dark side user's clone (born of some dark acolyte- something like the scenario in Rosemary's Baby.)  I find it especially interesting that Rey can hear the evil ancient voice in SKB forest and Palpatine could hear ..the source of the dark side speaking to him from the Unknown Regions..but Vader couldn't hear the voice.

2. The news that Ben is sensed as light makes me particularly sad because I think Ben appeared in the Han Solo comics and it is obvious he loved Han most of all. In the comic, he is an orb of light who follows Han everywhere and tries to help him.



3. The mask probably has the soul of the dark side user attached to it as a means to cheat death. This concept is similar to one in the EU where Drath Nihilus has his soul attached to his mask because he became a wound in the force after the battle of Malachor. Similarly in canon, maybe dark side users sacrifice the lives of others to get immortality for themselves.



These masks became canon in the Lando comics where hanging around a mask (not even wearing it) corrupted people and made them kill their loved ones.



4. Aphra visits one of these ancient observatories and we see a star map of the galaxy and locations of planets with ancient temples...this helps her locate the citadel of a breakaway force user group. Similarly, maybe Palpatine found these locations and collected force artifacts.

5. Now that Rakata Prime is canon, maybe Snoke is an ancient Rakatan (they used the dark side). Rakatans looked different in the EU but they could always change their look in canon.
@panki

Spoiler:
That part about Ban made me sad. Could it be that the mask of Darth Vader is literally corrupting Ben and it should be destroyed for the corruption to end?  
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Helix on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 0:00

I'm really leaning towards her having Darkside/Imperial parents now. That or some explorers who awakened Snoke as theorized in the Reddit thread. It actually does add to the plot, but also adds to the Rey mystery in more ways than just her parents. I think they're significant, not in a 'we know exactly who these people are', but in a way similar to the Erso family in R1. They're important now.
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 0:33

Spoiler:
I'am becoming more and more sure that Rey's parenatge has to do something with Jakku's position in the Galaxy (border of the Unkonown Regions) and all spiritual things obviously going on at Jakku in the past and present "creepy kids".
Was Rey intended to join FO as a little girl? If yes, why she never ended there?
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 0:38

@SkyStar wrote:
@panki wrote:
Spoiler:


1. Could this Kiza of Corellia be Rey's mother? Kira and Kiza do sound similar. Now I'm leaning towards Rey being a Palpatine or other dark side user's clone (born of some dark acolyte- something like the scenario in Rosemary's Baby.)  I find it especially interesting that Rey can hear the evil ancient voice in SKB forest and Palpatine could hear ..the source of the dark side speaking to him from the Unknown Regions..but Vader couldn't hear the voice.

2. The news that Ben is sensed as light makes me particularly sad because I think Ben appeared in the Han Solo comics and it is obvious he loved Han most of all. In the comic, he is an orb of light who follows Han everywhere and tries to help him.



3. The mask probably has the soul of the dark side user attached to it as a means to cheat death. This concept is similar to one in the EU where Drath Nihilus has his soul attached to his mask because he became a wound in the force after the battle of Malachor. Similarly in canon, maybe dark side users sacrifice the lives of others to get immortality for themselves.



These masks became canon in the Lando comics where hanging around a mask (not even wearing it) corrupted people and made them kill their loved ones.



4. Aphra visits one of these ancient observatories and we see a star map of the galaxy and locations of planets with ancient temples...this helps her locate the citadel of a breakaway force user group. Similarly, maybe Palpatine found these locations and collected force artifacts.

5. Now that Rakata Prime is canon, maybe Snoke is an ancient Rakatan (they used the dark side). Rakatans looked different in the EU but they could always change their look in canon.
@panki

Spoiler:
That part about Ban made me sad. Could it be that the mask of Darth Vader is literally corrupting Ben and it should be destroyed for the corruption to end?  
@SkyStar

Spoiler:
I think that is entirely possible that Vader's mask is corrupting him ... and not just Vader's mask, but his own mask.  If this Acolytes stuff follows through into the KoR, not only will be getting a mask be a big deal, but also the mask is most likely infused with some kind of darkness that will no doubt change behavior to some extent.

On Kylo/Ben being like a light, I think your theory about Ben being that "old soul orb" just got a lot stronger @panki.  It is also extremely poignant because even in his life as Kylo/Ben, I think some memory of that old love would be there.  I also think that the darkness and light that Leia describes could be looked at as a confirmation of that line in the TFA novel that Kylo really is the perfect division of dark and light.  Of course we'll have to read it for ourselves, but we were unsure if they were ever going to follow up with the half-dark/half-light thing from the novel ... now it looks like they are.  Also, again I will need to read it, but that "brightest light causes the greatest shadow" *really* goes with that Jungian stuff that RJ was talking about.  Official artwork has shown blinding light emanating from Kylo/Ben even thought he is in darkness. Ben may have been born truly tormented, a kind of half and half ... like a kind of sentinel for the force itself.  If he can integrate, so can the force.  I always thought Ben was kind of a "You got it wrong" kind of message from the force after Luke supposedly killed the dark side, that neither the Jedi nor the Sith still understood. Finally, if Ben is born on treaty day, then it really is like the byline of the book, "Every end has a beginning" (paraphrase).

On the Rey stuff, I will have to read over it again because there is *so much* with these Sith sites and these vicious Jakku kids and whatever alchemy the emperor had going on, but what I found really interesting was how they said that the center of Jakku was still orange firelight and blue mist.  This is duality.  Fire and Ice.  If she is a product of that energy somehow, she is fire and ice ... she is somehow split too, like Kylo/Ben ... Also, if those Jakku kids were so powerful ... maybe that is the explanation of some of her power.  Further, if Tashu and this Kiza got force abilities from contact with an object, then perhaps her latent abilities were enhanced by being around Kylo's mask *and* by Anakin's lightsaber ... which has a enough innocent blood on it to make it as dark as *sith*.

O.M.G. I cannot wait to get this book.  I think this is going to just be loaded with information!!!!
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by panki on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 1:05

@Darth Dingbat wrote:So much new info and good theories here to digest at one time! Brain imploding.

As you all know, I've been in the "ancient, primal evil" camp since day one so I'm pretty excited. But I still have a gut feeling that @panki's first instincts were correct and Snoke himself is more like a Lord Cronal type of character. And that the "source of the Dark Side" in the Unknown Regions is something beyond Snoke, something bigger. I dunno. But whether it's Snoke or someone else, I feel pretty confident there's something ancient and terrible at work here.

Something that intrigued me in the spoilers was a possible hint that Palpatine may have had a wife??

Spoiler:
So Palps talks in a space chess metaphor and mentions "the vizier, the knight, the outcast, the dowager, the disciple, the counselor, the beast, the craft, and the imperator". Rax himself is specified as being the Outcast.

And there's a Dowager...??

I agree with you about the ancient evil @Darth Dingbat .....the Vader comic reference to an "Eternal Empire" does point to a Vitiate character...though I wonder if they are going to create a combination of Vitiate and the Rakatans (who had the "Infinite Empire").

As for the Dowager.....I wonder if Sly Moore married Palps? She was considered the Empress in the EU and was a powerful force sensitive....and she wouldn't carry children for Palps since wealthy women on Coruscant didn't carry their own children.



@SkyStar wrote:
@panki

Spoiler:
That part about Ban made me sad. Could it be that the mask of Darth Vader is literally corrupting Ben and it should be destroyed for the corruption to end?  
@SkyStar

Spoiler:
Vader's mask being used to corrupt Ben is really a sad situation considering Anakin fell to the dark side because of losing his mother and fear of losing his wife.....and then returned to the light to save his son. Its obvious his family meant everything to him and so the idea that he was the cause of his grandson's fall is all the more tragic.

I think either the mask has to be destroyed or we're going to have a situation similar to that of Revan in the EU where his light side merged with the force (became a force ghost) while his dark side remained tied to his body and wanted revenge.... similarly, maybe Anakin became a force ghost (hence he looks young in his force ghost form on ROTJ) but Vader stuck around, tied to the burnt helmet....in this scenario, both sides of Anakin might have to merge to finally give his soul peace.




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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by Guest on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 9:48

The whole 'Consecrated Eremite' and anchorite thing are intriguing me. Eremite is basically a religious hermit. It is someone like the monks of old and saints who removed themselves to remote/unpopulated areas to live a solitary life. Aside from whoever the Consecrated Eremite on Jakku might have been, the term could also apply to Luke Skywalker. I know the downfall of his nephew might have been the main reason he went off on his own, but the search for the first Jedi temple would fit with the Eremite life. The term anchorite is also interchangeable with eremite but the former seem to make up monastic-like orders, as per the anchorite nuns on Jakku. Snoke also looks like he's wearing some sort of monk-like habit. These are just random thoughts, really. It does suggest further parallels between Snoke and Luke.

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by panki on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 12:14

Have we discussed this....

Spoiler:


1. Ben Solo (that is his name) is born on Chandrila in Hanna City. He hasn't been named after anyone specific. He was conceived under the trees of Endor.Rumors abound regarding Leia's pregnancy- some say it was hard and lasted 3 days, some say it was easy because Leia meditated.....some day Luke was there briefly, some say he was absent....Chewie wasn't there, he was on Kashyyk.....Lando brought Ben a Tooka doll.

2. Chewie's son is called Waroo.

3. Han is jealous of Leia's force connection to Ben...but when Ben cries and Han holds him, they bond and he stops crying.

4. Rax is dead. Sloane is now leading the imperial remnants with Armitage Hux to the Unknown Regions. They come across strange creatures and avoid superstorms. They lose power due to a magnetic burst of mysterious origin. Finally they reach the Eclipse (Ship) and a sentinel droid programmed by Palpatine asks permission for them to be let him- Take us in. It's time to rejoin those who came before.

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by AppleCrumble122 on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 12:26

@panki wrote:Have we discussed this....

Spoiler:


1. Ben Solo (that is his name) is born on Chandrila in Hanna City. He hasn't been named after anyone specific. He was conceived under the trees of Endor.Rumors abound regarding Leia's pregnancy- some say it was hard and lasted 3 days, some say it was easy because Leia meditated.....some day Luke was there briefly, some say he was absent....Chewie wasn't there, he was on Kashyyk.....Lando brought Ben a Tooka doll.

2. Chewie's son is called Waroo.

3. Han is jealous of Leia's force connection to Ben...but when Ben cries and Han holds him, they bond and he stops crying.

4. Rax is dead. Sloane is now leading the imperial remnants with Armitage Hux to the Unknown Regions. They come across strange creatures and avoid superstorms. They lose power due to a magnetic burst of mysterious origin. Finally they reach the Eclipse (Ship) and a sentinel droid programmed by Palpatine asks permission for them to be let him- Take us in. It's time to rejoin those who came before.
@panki

Spoiler:
Strange creatures in the Unknown regions and "those who came before"? Why am I getting Yuuzhan Vong vibes from this? Not that I think they will return but maybe they have influenced "those who came before" somewhat, as the Vong were religious fanatics who despised the Force, the Jedi and FS people. We've discussed before that Snoke might want to destroy the Force and use Ben to achieve this as he is the "focal of light and dark", so what if Snoke was an "Anicent Dark" being who was part of a cult who's goal it was to destroy the Force, failed and was sealed on Jakku, and if the battle of Jakku released him, he could have fled to the Unknown Regions? Or more of that cult is out there?

Or perhaps it's a FS cult that pre-date the teachings of the Jedi and Sith?
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 12:27

@panki wrote:Have we discussed this....

Spoiler:


1. Ben Solo (that is his name) is born on Chandrila in Hanna City. He hasn't been named after anyone specific. He was conceived under the trees of Endor.Rumors abound regarding Leia's pregnancy- some say it was hard and lasted 3 days, some say it was easy because Leia meditated.....some day Luke was there briefly, some say he was absent....Chewie wasn't there, he was on Kashyyk.....Lando brought Ben a Tooka doll.

2. Chewie's son is called Waroo.

3. Han is jealous of Leia's force connection to Ben...but when Ben cries and Han holds him, they bond and he stops crying.

4. Rax is dead. Sloane is now leading the imperial remnants with Armitage Hux to the Unknown Regions. They come across strange creatures and avoid superstorms. They lose power due to a magnetic burst of mysterious origin. Finally they reach the Eclipse (Ship) and a sentinel droid programmed by Palpatine asks permission for them to be let him- Take us in. It's time to rejoin those who came before.
@panki

spoiler:

That bit about Ben Solo being conceived on Endor directly contradicts what Leia said in Bloodline--that Ben was conceived on the Millennium Falcon while she and Han were running missions early on in their marriage...which is funny because, before Bloodline was released, it had been my headcanon that Ben had been conceived on Endor.
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by panki on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 12:32

@AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@panki wrote:Have we discussed this....

Spoiler:


1. Ben Solo (that is his name) is born on Chandrila in Hanna City. He hasn't been named after anyone specific. He was conceived under the trees of Endor.Rumors abound regarding Leia's pregnancy- some say it was hard and lasted 3 days, some say it was easy because Leia meditated.....some day Luke was there briefly, some say he was absent....Chewie wasn't there, he was on Kashyyk.....Lando brought Ben a Tooka doll.

2. Chewie's son is called Waroo.

3. Han is jealous of Leia's force connection to Ben...but when Ben cries and Han holds him, they bond and he stops crying.

4. Rax is dead. Sloane is now leading the imperial remnants with Armitage Hux to the Unknown Regions. They come across strange creatures and avoid superstorms. They lose power due to a magnetic burst of mysterious origin. Finally they reach the Eclipse (Ship) and a sentinel droid programmed by Palpatine asks permission for them to be let him- Take us in. It's time to rejoin those who came before.
@panki

Spoiler:
Strange creatures in the Unknown regions and "those who came before"? Why am I getting Yuuzhan Vong vibes from this? Not that I think they will return but maybe they have influenced "those who came before" somewhat, as the Vong were religious fanatics who despised the Force, the Jedi and FS people. We've discussed before that Snoke might want to destroy the Force and use Ben to achieve this as he is the "focal of light and dark", so what if Snoke was an "Anicent Dark" being who was part of a cult who's goal it was to destroy the Force, failed and was sealed on Jakku, and if the battle of Jakku released him, he could have fled to the Unknown Regions? Or more of that cult is out there?

Or perhaps it's a FS cult that pre-date the teachings of the Jedi and Sith?
@AppleCrumble122

Spoiler:
They sound a lot like the prophets of Rhand....they were a death cult that pre-dated the jedi and sith, and fled to the Unknown Regions after losing a series of ancient wars. They were into collecting force strong artifacts, communicating across great distances and messing with people's heads....and their oldest member's physical description sounds a lot like Snoke. Their goal also matches Leia's vision of fading stars- their goal is to destroy the universe and then destroy themselves.....you could call them an evil doomsday cult.

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by panki on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 12:39

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@panki wrote:Have we discussed this....

Spoiler:


1. Ben Solo (that is his name) is born on Chandrila in Hanna City. He hasn't been named after anyone specific. He was conceived under the trees of Endor.Rumors abound regarding Leia's pregnancy- some say it was hard and lasted 3 days, some say it was easy because Leia meditated.....some day Luke was there briefly, some say he was absent....Chewie wasn't there, he was on Kashyyk.....Lando brought Ben a Tooka doll.

2. Chewie's son is called Waroo.

3. Han is jealous of Leia's force connection to Ben...but when Ben cries and Han holds him, they bond and he stops crying.

4. Rax is dead. Sloane is now leading the imperial remnants with Armitage Hux to the Unknown Regions. They come across strange creatures and avoid superstorms. They lose power due to a magnetic burst of mysterious origin. Finally they reach the Eclipse (Ship) and a sentinel droid programmed by Palpatine asks permission for them to be let him- Take us in. It's time to rejoin those who came before.
@panki

spoiler:

That bit about Ben Solo being conceived on Endor directly contradicts what Leia said in Bloodline--that Ben was conceived on the Millennium Falcon while she and Han were running missions early on in their marriage...which is funny because, before Bloodline was released, it had been my headcanon that Ben had been conceived on Endor.
@ISeeAnIsland

Spoiler:
I like the idea of him being conceived on Endor as well.... Smile I think the contradiction is because Leia thought he was conceived on the MF while in Aftermath Han thinks he was conceived under a canopy of trees on Endor.

There is one thing though- Han and Leia were married on Endor shortly after the battle of Endor.....so Ben must have been conceived during their honeymoon on Endor or the MF...not after the battle of Endor as I hoped Neutral

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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by AppleCrumble122 on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 12:40

@panki wrote:
@AppleCrumble122

Spoiler:
They sound a lot like the prophets of Rhand....they were a death cult that pre-dated the jedi and sith, and fled to the Unknown Regions after losing a series of ancient wars. They were into collecting force strong artifacts, communicating across great distances and messing with people's heads....and their oldest member's physical description sounds a lot like Snoke. Their goal also matches Leia's vision of fading stars- their goal is to destroy the universe and then destroy themselves.....you could call them an evil doomsday cult.
@panki

Shocked

Spoiler:
Oh my god... And that also ties in with what has been happening in canon with Kylo collecting artifacts that belonged to Vader, those two DS cat warrior brothers where one turned evil due to a dark side object etc and the amount of cults such as Luke's acolytes and the Church of the Force. Wow, I would not be surprised if Snoke is a member of this cult and that is his goal. Maybe they want to destroy the Force and destroying the Universe is key to that. Regardless it is cliche but it's also so simple that it could work!
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Re: AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

Post by panki on Tue 14 Feb 2017 - 12:48

@AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@AppleCrumble122

Spoiler:
They sound a lot like the prophets of Rhand....they were a death cult that pre-dated the jedi and sith, and fled to the Unknown Regions after losing a series of ancient wars. They were into collecting force strong artifacts, communicating across great distances and messing with people's heads....and their oldest member's physical description sounds a lot like Snoke. Their goal also matches Leia's vision of fading stars- their goal is to destroy the universe and then destroy themselves.....you could call them an evil doomsday cult.
@panki

Shocked

Spoiler:
Oh my god... And that also ties in with what has been happening in canon with Kylo collecting artifacts that belonged to Vader, those two DS cat warrior brothers where one turned evil due to a dark side object etc and the amount of cults such as Luke's acolytes and the Church of the Force. Wow, I would not be surprised if Snoke is a member of this cult and that is his goal. Maybe they want to destroy the Force and destroying the Universe is key to that. Regardless it is cliche but it's also so simple that it could work!
@AppleCrumble122

Spoiler:
I think it make sense because they needs something much more evil than Palpatine to make this trilogy exciting.....and I remember Dave Filoni showing sketches at SWC last year of the ancient shrine at level 1 of Coruscant which he compared to the real world situation where modern religions built their own holy places over ancient shrines....an ancient dark cult out to destroy the universe is definitely cliche and yet promises to be fun. It also matches the lyrics of Snoke's theme in TFA, which talks about something dark, ancient and evil that takes the young

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