Rey's Lineage Discussion II

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 31 Mar - 14:57

Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Fri 31 Mar - 15:03

@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

That is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 31 Mar - 15:08

@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from? How did Satine come to the throne without the dark saber or combat? And we will have to agree to disagree I don't think it is clear at all.


Last edited by spacebaby45678 on Fri 31 Mar - 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Fri 31 Mar - 15:10

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 31 Mar - 15:11

@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat? Satine is a hereditary Duchess aka royalty who happened to have the throne of Mandalore. It has not been "clarified" how the politics and leadership over all is working on Mandalore, we need to wait for clarification.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Fri 31 Mar - 15:14

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore.

This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. Her faction is even known as the "New Mandalorians".

And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine (the group included her own sister).

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Irina de France on Fri 31 Mar - 15:16

Just to come back to the whole topic of Rey's ending for this trilogy... I don't see how ending up with Kylo/Ben and eventually starting a family of their own is "restrictive" for Rey. It doesn't equal becoming a stay-at-home mom who just takes care of the house. Like, I could see Rey and Ben going off exploring the galaxy on the MF at the end of Episode IX (it could be because Ben is not allowed to come anywhere the Core for a certain amount of time), discovering planets in the Unknown Regions and discovering more about the Force. That something that could definitely work for both and allow them a lot of freedom. Kids could come in the time between the two trilogies. Not straight away, because early babies are ALWAYS a problem in SW, but over time.

I mean, it could work, and there would be plenty of room for novels and comics too. You've got a cash cow for that right there.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 31 Mar - 15:16

@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai



Duke Adonai Kryze[1] was a Human[4] male Mandalorian, who served as the chieftain of Clan Kryze in the years leading up to the Great Clan Wars. As the fighting broke out across Mandalore, Kryze chose to send his daughter, Satine, to the Galactic Republic capital world of Coruscant, in order to keep her safe and allow her to undergo diplomatic training.[5] Though he was renowned as a powerful warlord, Kryze eventually perished in the course of the Great Clan Wars. In a move that some saw as a betrayal of his memory, his daughter Satine later joined the pacifistic New Mandalorian sect upon her return to Mandalore, becoming the faction's leader.[6]
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by fuhry on Fri 31 Mar - 15:26

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai
@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler. It seems like the rulers come from the big families. Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Fri 31 Mar - 15:27

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai



Duke Adonai Kryze[1] was a Human[4] male Mandalorian, who served as the chieftain of Clan Kryze in the years leading up to the Great Clan Wars. As the fighting broke out across Mandalore, Kryze chose to send his daughter, Satine, to the Galactic Republic capital world of Coruscant, in order to keep her safe and allow her to undergo diplomatic training.[5] Though he was renowned as a powerful warlord, Kryze eventually perished in the course of the Great Clan Wars. In a move that some saw as a betrayal of his memory, his daughter Satine later joined the pacifistic New Mandalorian sect upon her return to Mandalore, becoming the faction's leader.[6]
@spacebaby45678

Satine's father might have been a Duke but that doesn't automatically make him the heir to the throne of Mandalore or the Kryzes the hereditary rulers of all Mandalore....even when she rules the New Mandalorians, Satine remains a Duchess....she never takes the title of Mandalor (the title used by the ruler of all of Mandalore)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mand%27alor

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Fri 31 Mar - 15:29

@fuhry wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai
@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler.  It seems like the rulers come from the big families.  Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.
@fuhry

That is a very fair assumption....if Rey does indeed turn out to be Satine's descendant, she would be an extremely strong candidate to compete for the title of Mandalor.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 31 Mar - 15:36

@panki wrote:
@fuhry wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai
@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler.  It seems like the rulers come from the big families.  Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.
@fuhry

That is a very fair assumption....if Rey does indeed turn out to be Satine's descendant, she would be an extremely strong candidate to compete for the title of Mandalor.
@panki

Interesting qoute from Duke Adonai's wiki

"...Satine Kryze had been sent offworld as a child by her father, a mighty clan warlord, and she fell prey to the lies of the Jedi. After her father perished in the Great Clan Wars, she betrayed his memory by becoming the leader of the New Mandalorians."
―Tor Vizsla[src]

This might be a parallel to Rey being left on Jakku, also, the child actor of Rey said whe had war clothes on.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Fri 31 Mar - 15:49

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@fuhry wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai
@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler.  It seems like the rulers come from the big families.  Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.
@fuhry

That is a very fair assumption....if Rey does indeed turn out to be Satine's descendant, she would be an extremely strong candidate to compete for the title of Mandalor.
@panki

Interesting qoute from Duke Adonai's wiki

"...Satine Kryze had been sent offworld as a child by her father, a mighty clan warlord, and she fell prey to the lies of the Jedi. After her father perished in the Great Clan Wars, she betrayed his memory by becoming the leader of the New Mandalorians."
―Tor Vizsla[src]

This might be a parallel to Rey being left on Jakku, also, the child actor of Rey said whe had war clothes on.  
@spacebaby45678

I do agree that any warrior group would explain Rey's battle dress...whether it is Mandalorian, Nightsister, Chagrian etc.... even children kidnapped for Brendol Hux's training program. I saw a virtually identical force vision scene to Rey's vision in TCW where a very young Ventress was taken away by an Unkar like character and she is calling out to her mother who was forced to give her up.




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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 31 Mar - 16:04

@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@fuhry wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai
@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler.  It seems like the rulers come from the big families.  Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.
@fuhry

That is a very fair assumption....if Rey does indeed turn out to be Satine's descendant, she would be an extremely strong candidate to compete for the title of Mandalor.
@panki

Interesting qoute from Duke Adonai's wiki

"...Satine Kryze had been sent offworld as a child by her father, a mighty clan warlord, and she fell prey to the lies of the Jedi. After her father perished in the Great Clan Wars, she betrayed his memory by becoming the leader of the New Mandalorians."
―Tor Vizsla[src]

This might be a parallel to Rey being left on Jakku, also, the child actor of Rey said whe had war clothes on.  
@spacebaby45678

I do agree that any warrior group would explain Rey's battle dress...whether it is Mandalorian, Nightsister, Chagrian etc.... even children kidnapped for Brendol Hux's training program. I saw a virtually identical force vision scene to Rey's vision in TCW where a very young Ventress was taken away by an Unkar like character and she is calling out to her mother who was forced to give her up.



@panki

Just noting something new i had just learned, interestingly, Duke Adonai was mentioned in

Further mention of Kryze's father and his role in Mandalorian history came later that year, in the source booked entitled The Bounty Hunter Code: From the Files of Boba Fett,

and Satine will surely be in a flashback during Obi Wan's anthology

So maybe there is a connection to Rey there
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Fri 31 Mar - 16:10

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@fuhry wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:Yet, there seems to be hereditary royalty on Mandalore, so who and how one becomes the leader of Mandalore is not all that clear. Satine was Duchess of Mandalore but never had the dark saber. We need to wait for clarification on that.@fuhry
@spacebaby45678

There most definitely isn't a hereditary throne on Mandalore and it is made pretty clear in TCW.

tThat is why Fenn Rau told Sabine that she should take the title of Mandalore after she beat Gar Saxon in combat.... this is also why Maul got the throne of Mandalore after decapitating Pre Vizsla after he challenged him in combat. It is also why Bo Katan was made leader of Mandalore after Ahsoka helped her overthrow Maul according to Dave Filoni's TCW concept art.

The position is very clear in canon. The Mandalorian throne is won by combat...not bloodlines.
@panki

Who did Pre Vizla take the throne from?
@spacebaby45678

Pre Vizsla took it from Satine...but that still doesn't make her family the hereditary rulers of Mandalore....it just makes her the Duchess of Mandalore for a certain period of time.

@panki

Satine came to the throne without combat?
@spacebaby45678

Okay...since we're going to make this a Mando history lesson.....Satine was made Duchess because Mandalore suffered a terrible civil war over leadership and she represented a peaceful faction that didn't want to fight anymore. This has nothing to do with her inheriting the throne for hereditary reasons. And lets be clear that not every Mando accepted this new system or the Death Watch wouldn't have been able to take over and depose Satine.

The concept of a "leadership duel"is canon...and that is how the throne of Mandalore is normally passed as Mandalore has a warrior culture.
@panki

Satine was born a Duchess, her father is Duke Adonai
@spacebaby45678

It seems to me the throne is indeed won via combat, but it doesn't seem like the average Mandolorian is able to just stroll in and challenge the ruler.  It seems like the rulers come from the big families.  Except for you know, Darth Maul.

I guess I would amend my post to say that Rey would not be the heir automatically, but might be the child of two great warring families, and force-sensitive to boot, and therefore a viable candidate to be the ruler of Mandalore, and a threat to others that aspired to the throne.
@fuhry

That is a very fair assumption....if Rey does indeed turn out to be Satine's descendant, she would be an extremely strong candidate to compete for the title of Mandalor.
@panki

Interesting qoute from Duke Adonai's wiki

"...Satine Kryze had been sent offworld as a child by her father, a mighty clan warlord, and she fell prey to the lies of the Jedi. After her father perished in the Great Clan Wars, she betrayed his memory by becoming the leader of the New Mandalorians."
―Tor Vizsla[src]

This might be a parallel to Rey being left on Jakku, also, the child actor of Rey said whe had war clothes on.  
@spacebaby45678

I do agree that any warrior group would explain Rey's battle dress...whether it is Mandalorian, Nightsister, Chagrian etc.... even children kidnapped for Brendol Hux's training program. I saw a virtually identical force vision scene to Rey's vision in TCW where a very young Ventress was taken away by an Unkar like character and she is calling out to her mother who was forced to give her up.



@panki

Just noting something new i had just learned, interestingly, Duke Adonai was mentioned in

Further mention of Kryze's father and his role in Mandalorian history came later that year, in the source booked entitled The Bounty Hunter Code: From the Files of Boba Fett,

and Satine will surely be in a flashback during Obi Wan's anthology

So maybe there is a connection to Rey there
@spacebaby45678

I have the Bounty Hunter's Code.... it isn't a canon book so the backstory of Satine's father can completely change in later canon stories.

I am open to all sorts of lineage possibilities for Rey but the canon facts need to add up....right now, the canon facts don't favour Rey Kenobi....but that can always change if something new is revealed...till then, I really don't see it.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Gemini on Sat 15 Apr - 12:58

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned in here yet

So the trailer makes quite a big hint at Rey's lineage I think.

You suddenly hear Rey's musical theme and then it cuts to Leia and you hear the whisper of her line to Obi Wan in the OT "You're my only hope"

Whats more you then have Kylos musical theme connected to Darth Vader breathing in the next shot.

You have, in about 10 seconds a big connection to the grandfathers with both of the main characters Rey and Kylo and their musical themes.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 15 Apr - 15:39

I don't particularly believe in Rey Kenobi, but I was SO GLAD to see people reacting to it yesterday. The audience seemed to like it more than Rey Skywalker, and it was priceless Laughing
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 15 Apr - 17:55

@Gemini wrote:Surprised it hasn't been mentioned in here yet

So the trailer makes quite a big hint at Rey's lineage I think.

You suddenly hear Rey's musical theme and then it cuts to Leia and you hear the whisper of her line to Obi Wan in the OT "You're my only hope"

Whats more you then have Kylos musical theme connected to Darth Vader breathing in the next shot.

You have, in about 10 seconds a big connection to the grandfathers with both of the main characters Rey and Kylo and their musical themes.
@Gemini

I think when you just isolate those references in the trailer it continues the snow fight between Kylo & Rey that was so much like the duel between Obikin on Mustafar.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by snufkin on Sat 15 Apr - 18:05

@Gemini wrote:Surprised it hasn't been mentioned in here yet

So the trailer makes quite a big hint at Rey's lineage I think.

You suddenly hear Rey's musical theme and then it cuts to Leia and you hear the whisper of her line to Obi Wan in the OT "You're my only hope"

Whats more you then have Kylos musical theme connected to Darth Vader breathing in the next shot.

You have, in about 10 seconds a big connection to the grandfathers with both of the main characters Rey and Kylo and their musical themes.
@Gemini

It's now a consistent pattern because starting when she tricks James Bond into letting her go, the rest of TFA for those two mirrors Obi-Wan and Vader in the original movie. So two for two or three for three if you count the Force Back.

My big question is that if she's a Kenobi, how does that figure into how she ended up as an orphan, her parents being missing and likely dead, and the larger machinations Snoke/the FO have been working on for the past 30 years? How is this lineage a potential reason for what we do know, super powerful FS prodigy is left alone at age 5-6 in harsh environment while family disappears, never to return? I had the definite conclusion at the end of TFA that her parents are dead, likely murdered, nobody knows that she survived, and whatever went down is connected to Snoke's larger agenda. And we have confirmation that Snoke targeted Ben because he knew who his mother's actual lineage was. It wouldn't be out of bounds to consider that he might have been tracking any other surviving families, especially with the creepy "The Empire needs children" motif. Were her parents involved in something that put them in the cross hairs? Or were they also found out and targeted because of the lineage? I'm also really curious given the Raiders references and Kasdan's initial involvement where he "made things right" for several story/character details that got vetoed by LF, if he used that for Rey. Because he wrote a whole backstory for Marian that sounds awfully close to Rey being stuck on Jakku after her father's death.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by kroi on Sat 15 Apr - 21:00

Quotes from the Nightline interview:

Nightline reporter: "Everybody wants to know who you are, where you're from, who your parents are, will that all be answered in TLJ?"
Daisy: "Um, it's very interesting because I didn't know.. Mark was telling me, I didn't know that when Darth Vader said I'm your father, people didn't believe it was true and it was interesting because at the end of TFA I thought everyone was going to be like oh cool, that's been answered. But it hasn't and I think even though a lot of questions are answered in TLJ, I think it's still that thing of um discovery."

Full video: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/mark-hamill-daisy-ridley-star-wars-jedi-trailer-46814413
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by ZioRen on Sat 15 Apr - 22:32

@kroi wrote:Quotes from the Nightline interview:

Nightline reporter: "Everybody wants to know who you are, where you're from, who your parents are, will that all be answered in TLJ?"
Daisy: "Um, it's very interesting because I didn't know.. Mark was telling me, I didn't know that when Darth Vader said I'm your father, people didn't believe it was true and it was interesting because at the end of TFA I thought everyone was going to be like oh cool, that's been answered. But it hasn't and I think even though a lot of questions are answered in TLJ, I think it's still that thing of um discovery."

Full video: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/mark-hamill-daisy-ridley-star-wars-jedi-trailer-46814413
@kroi

I don't know if I'm reading this wrong but this doesn't sound good.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 15 Apr - 22:44

@ZioRen wrote:
@kroi wrote:Quotes from the Nightline interview:

Nightline reporter: "Everybody wants to know who you are, where you're from, who your parents are, will that all be answered in TLJ?"
Daisy: "Um, it's very interesting because I didn't know.. Mark was telling me, I didn't know that when Darth Vader said I'm your father, people didn't believe it was true and it was interesting because at the end of TFA I thought everyone was going to be like oh cool, that's been answered. But it hasn't and I think even though a lot of questions are answered in TLJ, I think it's still that thing of um discovery."

Full video: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/mark-hamill-daisy-ridley-star-wars-jedi-trailer-46814413
@kroi

I don't know if I'm reading this wrong but this doesn't sound good.
@ZioRen

For me it sounds perfect.
And when you take all Daisy's interviews so far on the topic - it's clear she thought the question has been answered in TFA i.e. Rey is not related to anyone of the OT3.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by SkyStar on Sat 15 Apr - 23:03

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@kroi wrote:Quotes from the Nightline interview:

Nightline reporter: "Everybody wants to know who you are, where you're from, who your parents are, will that all be answered in TLJ?"
Daisy: "Um, it's very interesting because I didn't know.. Mark was telling me, I didn't know that when Darth Vader said I'm your father, people didn't believe it was true and it was interesting because at the end of TFA I thought everyone was going to be like oh cool, that's been answered. But it hasn't and I think even though a lot of questions are answered in TLJ, I think it's still that thing of um discovery."

Full video: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/mark-hamill-daisy-ridley-star-wars-jedi-trailer-46814413
@kroi

I don't know if I'm reading this wrong but this doesn't sound good.
@ZioRen

For me it sounds perfect.
And when you take all Daisy's interviews so far on the topic - it's clear she thought the question has been answered in TFA i.e. Rey is not related to anyone of the OT3.
@Darth_Awakened

Yeah, maybe Daisy was worried that people still think she is a Skywalker even if it was clear from the movie she wasn't. And Mark was like - ah, it is okey, people also didn't believe when Vader told that he is Luke's father.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Gemini on Sat 15 Apr - 23:05

Daisy is saying that she thinks the ending of TFA answered the question of who she is. Im also a firm believer that it did answer who she is and have been saying for a year (Reywalkers would try and beat it out of me) and I Also agree with her with the fact that she is in disbelief that people didn't see it as well. I mean hardcore Star Wars fans can't see what it is quite clearly hinting at?
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Sat 15 Apr - 23:12

@Gemini wrote:Daisy is saying that she thinks the ending of TFA answered the question of who she is. Im also a firm believer  that it did answer who she is and have been saying for a year (Reywalkers would try and beat it out of me) and I Also agree with her with the fact that she is in disbelief that people didn't see it as well. I mean hardcore Star Wars fans can't see what it is quite clearly hinting at?
@Gemini

I think everyone is seeing their favourite lineage theory as the one answered in TFA....and unless LF confirms which theory is the correct one, I think it is unfair to say that any particular theory is being clearly hinted at (and others are not) or is better than other theories.

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