Rey's Lineage Discussion II

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 17:01

@reylo1992
Again nice breakdown....

Jett Lucas, George Lucas son has implied that Rey is royalty.



I think that while some fans are pissed at GL for the PT, I think there are many at LF very loyal to him and his vision of what the Saga is about.



I don't want the context to get lost. Kira ( Rey ) being a mixed race character is in The Force Awakens concept art book. Pablo has confirmed that the casting was open to all ethnicities.

This idea of Hybrid Rey remains in the final product, we are establishing a lineage/provenance for the creation of the character herself....



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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 30 Jan - 17:05

Oops. Posted this in the wrong thread. Sorry.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 30 Jan - 17:07

@reylo1992

I agree a lot with your points, except about the "normal girl marries Prince". I don't think that's going to happen, at least not straightforward.

And while Kylo definitely fits the Prince archetype, Rey's narrative has strong implications for "royal lineage" as well.

One of the reasons a lot of people are hung on theories such as Reywalker (and even Rey Kenobi or Rey Palpatine) is because several narrative beats in her journey mirrors classical princesses, especially Aurora, Cinderella and Belle in their original tales. Tropes used for these princesses are in TFA, therefore people (unconsciously) assume she "must be royalty". I don't think they're wrong at all to assume things for what was presented to us in the movie.

I think the writers thought it would be "obvious" for the audience because they were involved with the whole story and the context from the beginning, but it's not obvious at all. Her "Where are my parents" plot got out of hand because they overused red herrings and everything is too "subtle".
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 17:20




And, in a WTF twist, the article mentions Obi-Wan Kenobi’s (grand)daughter, who is now in her 20s and is either of mixed race or black. Could this be “Rachel”?

Here’s a crazy bit of speculation (that I don’t even buy myself): maybe Duchess Satine had a secret daughter to Obi-Wan, and that’s the mother of “Rachel”. Yes, Rachel Kenobi, descendant of the Mandalorian warriors of old, is set to usher the galaxy into a new era of guidance in the ways of the Force!

Stay tuned… It seems the new drought has broken.

https://starwarsalways.wordpress.com/2014/01/12/why-was-arndt-dropped-plus-casting-story-tidbits-and-wait-wtf/
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by ZioRen on Mon 30 Jan - 17:56

@Gemini wrote:@Reylo1992

That the kenobi granddaughter rumours were spreading around the casting call

And that they/she was specifically told that she had to be able to speak in a posh British accent (she's from the south east London, like me so we have a slight cockney twang, she had more of one than me)
@Gemini

I've just skimmed this thread but can you tell me where this information suddenly came from?
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 30 Jan - 18:50

Daisy Ridley already explained (in the My Dad Made A Porno podcast) why she was asked to speak in a posh accent and it had nothing to do with Rey's heritage.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 18:57

Parallels have meaning

George Lucas:

The interesting thing about Star Wars—and I didn’t ever really push this very far, because it’s not really that important—but there’s a lot going on there that most people haven’t come to grips with yet. But when they do, they will find it’s a much more intricately made clock than most people would imagine.
— George Lucas, Vanity Fair, February 2005
And:

[Star Wars] is purposely written like a piece of music, with themes that repeat themselves in different ways, and ideas that reprise from one generation to the next.
- George Lucas, quoted in Scott Chernoff, The Plot Thickens, "Star Wars Insider", July/August 2002.
And:

Instead of destroying the Death Star [like Luke], [Anakin] destroys the ship that controls the robots. It’s like poetry. Every stanza kind of rhymes with the last one.
- George Lucas, The Beginning: Making Episode I Disc 2, The Phantom Menace DVD
And:

It’s very, very clear in the two trilogies that I’m putting the characters in pretty much the same situations sometimes even using the same dialogue so that the father and son go through pretty much the same experience.
- George Lucas, Audio Commentary, The Phantom Menace DVD
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Gemini on Mon 30 Jan - 19:07

@ZioRen wrote:
@Gemini wrote:@Reylo1992

That the kenobi granddaughter rumours were spreading around the casting call

And that they/she was specifically told that she had to be able to speak in a posh British accent (she's from the south east London, like me so we have a slight cockney twang, she had more of one than me)
@Gemini

I've just skimmed this thread but can you tell me where this information suddenly came from?
@ZioRen

From me working on a film project recently with two actors who auditioned for rey

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Gemini on Mon 30 Jan - 19:16

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Daisy Ridley already explained (in the My Dad Made A Porno podcast) why she was asked to speak in a posh accent and it had nothing to do with Rey's heritage.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I highly doubt that Daisy would openly say she was told to do this in the audition because it ties in with reys parentage. I know from first hand accounts from 2 people who auditioned for rey that they were told a posh British accent was essential and another American has said this too recently, she was told in the audition she had to be able to speak in a British accent as a must.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 19:17

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Daisy Ridley already explained (in the My Dad Made A Porno podcast) why she was asked to speak in a posh accent and it had nothing to do with Rey's heritage.
@Mrs Ben Solo

They  definitely asked Daisy to have a posh accent, she says she thinks Americans don't understand her normal English/British accent.... Americans understand Americans better by this reasoning they should have had her do a midwestern American accent, because that is currently the American standard.

Love this podcast, Daisy is very charming...
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 30 Jan - 19:29

@Gemini wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Daisy Ridley already explained (in the My Dad Made A Porno podcast) why she was asked to speak in a posh accent and it had nothing to do with Rey's heritage.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I highly doubt that Daisy would openly say she was told to do this in the audition because it ties in with reys parentage. I know from first hand accounts from 2 people who auditioned for rey that they were told a posh British accent was essential and another American has said this too recently, she was told in the audition she had to be able to speak in a British accent as a must.
@Gemini

Rey didn't grow up around Obi-Wan and it's unlikely her mother or father (if one is his child) ever met him let alone grew up around him. There are arguments in favour of Kenobi lineage but the accent stuff is a weak link because accents aren't genetic. PH has even suggested Rey could have got hers from growing up around Unkar Plutt.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Gemini on Mon 30 Jan - 19:32

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Daisy Ridley already explained (in the My Dad Made A Porno podcast) why she was asked to speak in a posh accent and it had nothing to do with Rey's heritage.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I highly doubt that Daisy would openly say she was told to do this in the audition because it ties in with reys parentage. I know from first hand accounts from 2 people who auditioned for rey that they were told a posh British accent was essential and another American has said this too recently, she was told in the audition she had to be able to speak in a British accent as a must.
@Gemini

Rey didn't grow up around Obi-Wan and it's unlikely her mother or father (if one is his child) ever met him let alone grew up around him. There are arguments in favour of Kenobi lineage but the accent stuff is a weak link because accents aren't genetic. PH has even suggested Rey could have got hers from growing up around Unkar Plutt.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Personally wouldn't call it weak, your accent is a result of who you are raised around. Could you show me where that tweet is? All I saw from him was ignoring someone when they asked about plutt (after a discussion about the accent)
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 19:36



In an interview with USA Today, director Gareth Edwards said that when he first talked to actor Ben Mendelsohn about the role of Director Orson Krennic, an Imperial officer and commander of the Death Trooper army, Mendelsohn asked if he should take on an upper-middle class British accent. Mendelsohn pointed out that in the original trilogy, members of the Empire’s most senior positions tended to have Shakespearean, posh accents and as a character who was trying to get into similar standings, that seemed to make the most sense.

Edwards, on the other hand, disagreed and said that he liked the idea of Krennic being different from the other Imperial officers and figures Star Wars fans have seen over the years.

“It feels like if the Empire ever have a job vacancy, they go to the Royal Shakespeare Company to headhunt people,” Edwards told USA Today. “I like the idea that Ben’s character was much more working-class” and rose in the ranks ‘through sheer force of personality and ideas.’”
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 30 Jan - 19:40

@Gemini wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Daisy Ridley already explained (in the My Dad Made A Porno podcast) why she was asked to speak in a posh accent and it had nothing to do with Rey's heritage.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I highly doubt that Daisy would openly say she was told to do this in the audition because it ties in with reys parentage. I know from first hand accounts from 2 people who auditioned for rey that they were told a posh British accent was essential and another American has said this too recently, she was told in the audition she had to be able to speak in a British accent as a must.
@Gemini

Rey didn't grow up around Obi-Wan and it's unlikely her mother or father (if one is his child) ever met him let alone grew up around him. There are arguments in favour of Kenobi lineage but the accent stuff is a weak link because accents aren't genetic. PH has even suggested Rey could have got hers from growing up around Unkar Plutt.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Personally wouldn't call it weak, your accent is a result of who you are raised around. Could you show me where that tweet is? All I saw from him was ignoring someone when they asked about plutt (after a discussion about the accent)
@Gemini

Well, Rey was primarily raised around Unkar Plutt if she's been on Jakku from an early age. Since PH has back peddled on the Rey recognising her family tweets, she might not remember how they spoke, either. It makes no sense to me to attach such importance to Rey having a posh accent like Obi-Wan when there's no link with her upbringing, and likely not with her parents, either.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by snufkin on Mon 30 Jan - 19:51

@reylo1992 wrote:

As for Rey, it's more complicated to know what to make of the parallels with Obi-Wan. So let's see her role in TFA in regard to Obi-Wan's role in the Star Wars franchise:  
1) He plays a decisive role in the fight agains the DS since he's the only Jedi who defeated a Dark Side user twice in the franchise and from the very first Episode of the franchise
==> Rey is meant to play a decisive role in this regard too
2) He's closely related to the Skywalker family as friend since he bonds with all of them: he was Anakin's best friend, he became Padme's friend, he became Luke's mentor, he met Han and he was Leia's only hope
==> Rey is meant to become closely related with the Skywalker since she bonds with all the Skywalker during her journey
3) He becomes the bearer/messenger of the Skywalker legacy and the one who bring disparate pieces together, Without Obi-Wan, the Skywalker family would have never been reunited
==> Rey plays that role because she saves BB-8 and is the bridge between the estranged Skywalkers since she's the only character who has met them separately: Han, then Kylo, then Leia, then Luke.
4) His relationship to Anakin is extremely important because they are soulmates in some way: it's too bad that the PT movies didn't explore their relationship further because the novelization refer to them as "The team", as brothers, as soulmates. Obi-Wan is essential for Anakin's well-being because he shares a connection with Obi-Wan that he doesn't with Padme since she isn't FS. ROTS isn't only about the destruction of the Anidala love story, it's also about the destruction of the Obikin friendship. Anakin lost his two soulmates when he became Darth Vader
==> In regard to Kylo, I think that Rey is meant to have the role that both Padme & Obi-Wan played in Anakin's life: she is his love interest but more than this she is his soulmate because they share this Force connection that could allow them to understand each other completely and become a hell of a team.  
@reylo1992

The bolded really is the conclusion I came to after going back to see TFA for a second time because I knew that there was something going  on in the scenes between the two of them that was more than the tired tropes of either hero v villain or heroine and tragic bad guy's fatal crush. If there was any previous characters for her to be linked back to, the most plausible connection* for her would be Obi-Wan because of his presence and importance in both the OT and PT.

However you're more on the money that it's not the DNA as much as it's the symbolic role she plays in this dynamic. And plenty of film critics and audience members have already stated that part of what making things right is how this character is what Anakin should have been in the PT. Family member or not, there is meant to be an allusion to Obi-Wan in multiple callbacks and parallels to that character from the first movie. Which all center around Rey. Re-watching the first movie again on TV, it really hit me over the head during the cat and mouse chase on SKB. It very much copies the beats of Obi Wan trying to get the tractor beam turned off/sneaking around and Vader sensing him being there there and tracking him down. Incuding the same lines of dialogue from the stormtroopers (you need the headphones to really hear it) when both characters are hding.  It climaxes in the moment when Obi-Wan is headed back to the MF, there's that first moment where he turns the corner and Vader is waiting with lit saber to cut him off. It's at the very beginning of their scene together/fight. They show that clearly on the SKB scenes where she's sneaking around trying to escape and he's pursuing her before eventually cutting off her escape route to the MF and fighting her And in both scenarios, it's very personal and to do with Vader/Ren's insecurities and trying to show that they're in control/more powerful.



Which is referenced when Finn is leading Rey through the forest back to the MF to escape and their escape route is cut off by Ren. They signal he's there with the sound of him lighting the saber when he confronts her (given all of the verbal cues that he's focused on her and Finn is a 3rd wheel)

https://static3.businessinsider.com/image/56fa9ae1dd0895342b8b456c-5760-2880/kylo-ren-finn-rey-star-wars.jpg



It's definitely fun to go through and look for the strongest examples where these details are used. But I think you're right (and this may also be why some fans are so vocally opposed to the topic of our board), she'll ultimately fill both roles in his life. Which may be critical in him not following in his grandfather's path and instead choosing personal relationships over personal power. Certainly that's the larger lesson to be had in how it's a character descended from the two most iconic male characters in the franchise and whose example he'll follow. Han's path (AKA the one Ben's rejecting at the moment) was ultimately about choosing the people you love over your own self interest.

In regards to Rey Random, I'm more of a mind that it's Rey Has Some Connection Critical to the Force Plot Just Haven't Played that Card Yet. If she were a total random, then they could've had a line of dialogue about how her parents were crushed under a pile of garbage (or eaten by a rampaging rhinocerus like James Henry Trotter's parents) and she was trapped on Jakku because Unkar Plutt had some debt hanging over her head. There's a very specific and very critical reason for the story as to why she voluntarily stays put in such an awful place. Part of it is definitely meant to parallel whatever Ben's backstory is (staying in a horrible, self destructive situation because insecurity and fear make you believe it's the only way you'll be valueable). But they could've so easily made her a sad orphan straight out of Charles Dickens' playbook, that says there's something being held back because it has to do with the larger story. We'll see.

*My personal opinion, not looking for this to turn into another debate on the topic.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Gemini on Mon 30 Jan - 19:54

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Daisy Ridley already explained (in the My Dad Made A Porno podcast) why she was asked to speak in a posh accent and it had nothing to do with Rey's heritage.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I highly doubt that Daisy would openly say she was told to do this in the audition because it ties in with reys parentage. I know from first hand accounts  from 2 people who auditioned for rey that they were told a posh British accent was essential and another American has said this too recently, she was told in the audition she had to be able to speak in a British accent as a must.
@Gemini

Rey didn't grow up around Obi-Wan and it's unlikely her mother or father (if one is his child) ever met him let alone grew up around him. There are arguments in favour of Kenobi lineage but the accent stuff is a weak link because accents aren't genetic. PH has even suggested Rey could have got hers from growing up around Unkar Plutt.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Personally wouldn't call it weak, your accent is a result of who you are raised around. Could you show me where that tweet is? All I saw from him was ignoring someone when they asked about plutt (after a discussion about the accent)
@Gemini

Well, Rey was primarily raised around Unkar Plutt if she's been on Jakku from an early age. Since PH has back peddled on the Rey recognising her family tweets, she might not remember how they spoke, either. It makes no sense to me to attach such importance to Rey having a posh accent like Obi-Wan when there's no link with her upbringing, and likely not with her parents, either.
@Mrs Ben Solo


She was about 5-8 when abandoned, I'm pretty sure I had a British accent around 3 years old.

If her parent/s are mandalorian royalty  then the accent would also be posh British

Also I'm just relaying what was told to me. The British accent was essential during the casting process. I'm just guessing that wasn't because of a b character like plutt.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by reylo1992 on Mon 30 Jan - 21:13

@spacebaby45678
@Piper Maru
@Gemini

Hmm. Interesting. Rachel (Rey) could be   mixed-race or black but Thomas (Finn) wasn't supposed to be? "Handsome, smart and athletic" sounds indeed very much like a Disney Prince & Disney Princess cast. Hope that Finn isn't supposed to be the real Prince through  Wink

And thanks @spacebaby45678 for the information about Jett Lucas implying that Rey is royalty because I had never heard about that before. Then Rey as royalt heir could make even more sense in regard to her name and her poch British accent.

Personally, I'll be "deeply and profoundly satisfied" with any answer about her lineage that would make sense for the plot of the whole franchise since Colin Trevorrow said that he saw Episode 9 as "1 movie, 3 movies, 6 movies and 9 movies" and that Rey "is important not only in the context of TFA but in the entire galaxy and she deserves it". The most important for me is that her backstory is well explained and that I see what added-value her origins would bring to the Star Wars franchise.

To me, there are 3 options - aside from Rey has no family because she's the embodiment of the Light Side or whatsoever:

1) Random Rey - royal or not

Even if it sounds at first not very satisfying to have Rebeing related to any previous important character, I think it could bring something to the franchise. Until now, Star Wars is too much focused on the Skywalker family with so few characters gravitating around them. Plus, the two previous trilogies feel a little  like a limited and closed club: the PT in particular focus very much on priviledged minority formed by the upper class (Palpatine, Padme, Bail, etc...) and the Jedi as a closed Order that chooses carrefully is welcome to their club or not. Until now, all key Star Wars characters - with the exception of Han Solo - are given importance in the story because of their importance for the galaxy (Anakin as the Chosen One), their status (Queen Amidala, Jedi Master Kenobi, Chancelor Palpatine) or lineage (Luke,Leia, Ben)

That's why, I find Random Rey - especially non-royal Random Rey - so appealing because I see what added-value it could bring for the Star Wars franchise to have the heroin having no important lineage, beginning her journey like a "street rat" and ending this journey as a princess because her sole actions made her the heroin of her own story and of the galaxy. In RO & TFA, Disney/Lucasfilm already show how hard they want to achieve  woman empowerment, diversity but also openess. They already introduced this idea with characters like Lyra Erso, Donnie Yen and Maz Kanata, Snoke that they are various ways to understand and use the Force.

[/b] On reason why I like this idea:  this question of  lineage with "deeply and profoundly satisfying answer" is a little twisted because it feels a little like a competition: who will have the most prestigious lineage ? Since Kylo's lineage is really high-ranked, Rey's lineage could only  match/overcomes his by making her both a Kenobi & Palpatine or a Kenobi & a Princess, or a Palpatine & a Princess, or the very embodiment of the Light Side, etc...

That's why having Rey coming from a complete unknown lineage - royal or not - could bring something to the Star Wars franchise. She would be important in the entire galaxy because she could change completely this idea that the access and use of the Force is limited to a small amount of priviledged people.


2) Rey Palpatine - Dark side lineage

I don't necessarily want Rey to have dark side lineage but I see what added-value could bring for the plot of the whole trilogy and even for the plot of the whole franchise. The fight between the Dark Side and the Light side is a tale as old as time. In Episode I, there was already reference to the disappearance of the Sith 1000 years prior to the rise of the Old Republic. The struggle between the two sides is the central point of the whole franchise. Plus Anakin was supposed to bring balance to the Force but it remain unclear what it means and he didn't achieve it since it's still unbalanced thirty years after his death.

So how could the ST bring balance to the Force? Disney movies are fairytale ending mostly with a marriage. The fact is that unions - especially in ancient time - were a recurrent mean to ensure durable peaces between rival kingdoms. There were some Romeo & Juliet reference in TFA, which is basically the love story of teenagers who love each other despite their family rivalries. The priest who  married them even saw the opportunity in this marriage not only to bring peace between the Montaigu and the Capulet but also to bring peace in Verona since the city suffered from this old rivalry between these two families. The same scheme applies in Disney movies: the love story between Kovu & Kiara stops the war between their two prides; the love story between Pocahontas & John Smith stops (partially) the war between their two clans.

What's more, if it appears that Rey hasn't only a dark side lineage but that she is related to Palpatine, it makes totally sense in regard to Palpatine's title. His goal was build an Empire and to run the galaxy: you don't build an Empire just for fun, without preparing what comes next in the case you pass away, i.e. Napoleon was so desparate to have a heir that he divorced an remarried with a younger woman for this sole purpose. When you work so hard to build an Empire, it's not to let it disappear after your death because you have no heir to ensure the continuity.

So if  the screenwriters want to come back to the origins of the conflict and bring an end to this conflict that destroys the galaxy, I see the point of having Reylo as the union of a Dark side and Light side lineage and ending as Grey Jedi or whatsoever to ensure this balance. Plus I see what it implies for her character's development to learn that she would have dark origins: does it mean that my parents were bad? Does it mean that I am intrinsically bad? Shoud I be faithful toward their legacy and follow their steps? Should I remain myself and stay in the camp of people who were perhaps of their death and my solitary life on Jakku? etc...

So Rey would be an important character in the entire galaxy in regard to her lineage because she and Ben would contribute to the union of the Dark Side and the Light Side

3) Rey Kenobi

I see very well now all visual parallels/clues that were pointed out and I agree that it makes Obi-Wan the most serious candidate for Rey's lineage. However, when it comes to identify what it brings for the story/plot not just in the context of the ST but also in regard to the whole franchise, it's much more difficult for me to come with a satisfying explanation. So I would be interested to know what the full Rey Kenobi supporters like you @Gemini think about this Wink . I see what it brings in regard to the "romantic" aspect of the story and I find it very appealing: how marvellous it would be to have Obi-Wan's grandaughter ending with Anakin's Skywalker's grandson in a sort of reversed Anidala romance/Obikin friendship by reuniting the unbeatable duo again.

But aside from that: what could it bring for the plot to have Rey learning that she's the grandaughter of the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi  Question Why would it  make her an important character for the entire galaxy to be related to Obi-Wan Kenobi Question Because if the screenwriter want to have her related to him just for fun, it wouldn't bring much especially if "it seems complicated" to explain how they get there. So it must be worth, for more reason than "it's just cool to have old Ben back with his grandaughter", right Question .

It's just a personal feeling so I am completely opened to contradictions for what follows. Of course, Obi-Wan is an important character but he always had a supportive role in the franchise at least in comparison to the Skywalkers. The Skywalker were always the focal point of the story because this franchise is first and foremost their story. So what is the point to make Obi-Wan's grandaughter the heroin of the ST and put a Kenobi instead of a Skywalker in the forefront of the franchise? More important, why should a Kenobi be "important not just in TFA but in the entire galaxy (and she deserves it)", perhaps ending even more important than the Skywalker? Does it mean that a Kenobi is supposed to succeed - i.e. by bringing balance to the Force and peace to the galaxy - where the Skywalker failed, that a Kenobi is always supposed to correct what the Skywalker makes wrong ? I write it so because I've really read some comments somewhere where people basically say something like: "It would be a great twist have Rey being a Kenobi because the bright-looking Kenobis have always brought so much better than the dark unstable Skywalkers who are only good at bringing the galaxy down".

Don't get me wrong: I am not against Rey Kenobi at all because I like both Rey & Obi-Wan very much. However, if she turns to be a Kenobi, I hope the answer wouldn't feel like - sorry in advance because I know it's going to be a bit caricatural - the screenwriters say to us: "You've been told the story of the up and down of the Skywalker family and the galaxy for decades. You were led to believe that Anakin Skywalker was the Chosen One and his heirs were meant to bear the legacy to bring the balance of the Force and peace to the galaxy. Guess what: after 40 years, 3 triilogies and 9 movies overall, you'll be glad to learn that Obi-Wan was actually the main character of the franchise and that his lineage was the key to bring the balance of the Force" Twisted Evil

Ok.Ok.  I think the screenwriters are much smarter than this but still I think it's a legitimate question: if the Kenobi lineage is really meant to be so important for the entire galaxy, why making it so after 40 years, 2 trilogies and 6 movies focusing exclusively on the Skywalker lineage Question Unless it is revealed that both Anakin & Obi-Wan were meant to bring balance to the Force together and it passed to their grandchildren because they failed Question


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by reylo1992 on Mon 30 Jan - 21:41

@snufkin wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:

As for Rey, it's more complicated to know what to make of the parallels with Obi-Wan. So let's see her role in TFA in regard to Obi-Wan's role in the Star Wars franchise:  
1) He plays a decisive role in the fight agains the DS since he's the only Jedi who defeated a Dark Side user twice in the franchise and from the very first Episode of the franchise
==> Rey is meant to play a decisive role in this regard too
2) He's closely related to the Skywalker family as friend since he bonds with all of them: he was Anakin's best friend, he became Padme's friend, he became Luke's mentor, he met Han and he was Leia's only hope
==> Rey is meant to become closely related with the Skywalker since she bonds with all the Skywalker during her journey
3) He becomes the bearer/messenger of the Skywalker legacy and the one who bring disparate pieces together, Without Obi-Wan, the Skywalker family would have never been reunited
==> Rey plays that role because she saves BB-8 and is the bridge between the estranged Skywalkers since she's the only character who has met them separately: Han, then Kylo, then Leia, then Luke.
4) His relationship to Anakin is extremely important because they are soulmates in some way: it's too bad that the PT movies didn't explore their relationship further because the novelization refer to them as "The team", as brothers, as soulmates. Obi-Wan is essential for Anakin's well-being because he shares a connection with Obi-Wan that he doesn't with Padme since she isn't FS. ROTS isn't only about the destruction of the Anidala love story, it's also about the destruction of the Obikin friendship. Anakin lost his two soulmates when he became Darth Vader
==> In regard to Kylo, I think that Rey is meant to have the role that both Padme & Obi-Wan played in Anakin's life: she is his love interest but more than this she is his soulmate because they share this Force connection that could allow them to understand each other completely and become a hell of a team.  
@reylo1992

The bolded really is the conclusion I came to after going back to see TFA for a second time because I knew that there was something going  on in the scenes between the two of them that was more than the tired tropes of either hero v villain or heroine and tragic bad guy's fatal crush. If there was any previous characters for her to be linked back to, the most plausible connection* for her would be Obi-Wan because of his presence and importance in both the OT and PT.

However you're more on the money that it's not the DNA as much as it's the symbolic role she plays in this dynamic. And plenty of film critics and audience members have already stated that part of what making things right is how this character is what Anakin should have been in the PT. Family member or not, there is meant to be an allusion to Obi-Wan in multiple callbacks and parallels to that character from the first movie. Which all center around Rey. Re-watching the first movie again on TV, it really hit me over the head during the cat and mouse chase on SKB. It very much copies the beats of Obi Wan trying to get the tractor beam turned off/sneaking around and Vader sensing him being there there and tracking him down. Incuding the same lines of dialogue from the stormtroopers (you need the headphones to really hear it) when both characters are hding.  It climaxes in the moment when Obi-Wan is headed back to the MF, there's that first moment where he turns the corner and Vader is waiting with lit saber to cut him off. It's at the very beginning of their scene together/fight. They show that clearly on the SKB scenes where she's sneaking around trying to escape and he's pursuing her before eventually cutting off her escape route to the MF and fighting her And in both scenarios, it's very personal and to do with Vader/Ren's insecurities and trying to show that they're in control/more powerful.



Which is referenced when Finn is leading Rey through the forest back to the MF to escape and their escape route is cut off by Ren. They signal he's there with the sound of him lighting the saber when he confronts her (given all of the verbal cues that he's focused on her and Finn is a 3rd wheel)

https://static3.businessinsider.com/image/56fa9ae1dd0895342b8b456c-5760-2880/kylo-ren-finn-rey-star-wars.jpg



It's definitely fun to go through and look for the strongest examples where these details are used. But I think you're right (and this may also be why some fans are so vocally opposed to the topic of our board), she'll ultimately fill both roles in his life. Which may be critical in him not following in his grandfather's path and instead choosing personal relationships over personal power. Certainly that's the larger lesson to be had in how it's a character descended from the two most iconic male characters in the franchise and whose example he'll follow. Han's path (AKA the one Ben's rejecting at the moment) was ultimately about choosing the people you love over your own self interest.

In regards to Rey Random, I'm more of a mind that it's Rey Has Some Connection Critical to the Force Plot Just Haven't Played that Card Yet. If she were a total random, then they could've had a line of dialogue about how her parents were crushed under a pile of garbage (or eaten by a rampaging rhinocerus like James Henry Trotter's parents) and she was trapped on Jakku because Unkar Plutt had some debt hanging over her head. There's a very specific and very critical reason for the story as to why she voluntarily stays put in such an awful place. Part of it is definitely meant to parallel whatever Ben's backstory is (staying in a horrible, self destructive situation because insecurity and fear make you believe it's the only way you'll be valueable). But they could've so easily made her a sad orphan straight out of Charles Dickens' playbook, that says there's something being held back because it has to do with the larger story. We'll see.

*My personal opinion, not looking for this to turn into another debate on the topic.
@snufkin

Completely agree woth your analysis.
About Random Rey, actually I don't know if Randon if the most appropriate expression. I use as the idea that she's related to know one we got to know before in the franchise or at least no key character.

I don't think at all either that the revelation would be about her parents as completely normal characters who died under a pile of garbage, or because of a debt to Unkar Plutt or whatsoever. I think that in all cases - Random, Kenobi, Palpatine - they disappeared and died in mysterious conditions that are key for the plot or at least for Rey's character journey because she'll find out about this somewhen. She'll have to find out the truth about her birth family to go ahead. She must get answers because otherwise she would ask herself forever what happened and it would poison her life. After Maz told her that her family would never ever come back, she didn't have the time to think about this but on Ahch-To it will be different. She'll get plenty of time to think about it and big questions will raise in her mind. I believe that the truth about what happened to them will be key for the plot and her develoment As for their identity, we shall see...

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 22:14

@reylo1992

You win just for that Gif... That kid is the cutest...

I am sorry I cannot give as detail an answer as is your question... I must be brief, as I am doing other things, so please don't take that as me being flip or glib...

For me it is not just about what I think I see but to discover artist intent. I want a wholistic answer, what is the Star Wars saga? what did/does Lucas envision? What are the methods by which he tells the story? What is myth? As KK says, her and JJ sat down with George and learned the "rules" there are rules in his world he is the maker.

1. Rey Random

It is too late to tell this story, as main protagonist  random hero stories begin with the child being a baby or younger or even a prophesy pre birth. Since we meet Rey at 19 for me this alone rules Rey Random out. It defies the laws of good mythological storytelling, I would have been a go for Rey Random if that was the movie that I saw in the first place. If Rey is random reveal it from the beginning and we have a beautiful story to enjoy watching her grow from nothing to something. Randoms in Hero Saga's are great, but part of that joy is knowing that they are random nobodies doing great things. see the end of post a short meta on mythical heros and why it is too late for Rey to be Random.


2. Rey Palpatine

Rachel/Kira/Rey a Black/African/African American mixed race descendant of Palpatine... that does not feel right to me somehow. Rey Palpatine could be a good story.... who knows. If Rey is a Palpatine we have a compelling story about someone who struggles to overcome her heritage. The lost Princess story is also a very good story, no need to know it from the beginning but to find that out in the end of the saga would be not have grand emotional weight, to the OT, PT & ST imho.

3. Rey Kenobi

If Rey is a Kenobi we have a story that continues a long saga of struggle, friendship, family and love. reveal it to early, you leak the plot and nothing is surprising after that to the GA. You save it for the last, who she is and where she comes from join together to an emotional crescendo.What does Kenobi himself bring to the story well himself of course, and if you are George Lucas, who LOVES his original ideas for the Mandalorians, you give Kenobi a Royal Mando girlfriend Duchess Satine Kyrze... The Mandos are important, they are falling in between the Jedi and the Sith fiercely independent...

Kenobi is a placeholder in Star Wars which is Solar mythology...The Skywalkers are representative of the Sun...  you can't have a solar myth without a Kenobi... he is John the Baptist/Aquarius, this is a well known fact. How do we know that Rey is representing John the Baptist in this incarnation ST? She should have some of those mythological motifs...

1. Raised in the Wilderness ( yes)

Luke 1:80 (NET)
1:80 And the child kept growing and becoming strong in spirit, and he was in the wilderness until the day he was revealed to Israel


2. Staff( yes )  A song on the soundtrack,... Girl with a staff


3. Her home AT-AT, is call Hellhound 2 ... Hellhounds are the seekers of lost souls

4. Follow me.. She distinctly tells this to Finn in the Beginning of TFA... Song on the soundtrack Follow Me... this is distinctly something a John the Baptist figure would say... and Obi wan says it to Luke in ANH....



There is way more about this but it would require a me to write a seriously long Meta...


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 22:16


@reylo1992

Part II

Heroes in Myth & Fairy Tales; Everyday heroes or children of the legends.


Star Wars Myth of Fairy Tale?

“Lucas set out to create a modern mythology to teach right and wrong. The result was a fusion of "Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe" and Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces," of Arthurian legends and Japanese samurai epics, of Carlos Castaneda's "Tales of Power" and the Narnia tales of C.S. Lewis. “

In determining whether Rey the protagonist of Star Wars will be a random everyday hero , or a child of legend with an important lineage it is important to determine what kind of story the Star Wars Saga is. Is it a simple child’s fairy tale? Or is it a modern mythic saga? Like any great work of art, Star Wars can work on many levels, depending upon its audience, it can be just a great adventure sci fi in space, or children’s fairy tale teaching simple morals or it can be a basis to understand philosophy, spirituality and metaphysics.

The key concept that takes it out of the realm of fairy tale into the world of mythic belief system that is the Force. The Force itself acts as a God force.  I will propose that although it does use fairy tale motifs frequently ultimately the saga is underpinned using concepts derived from ancient myth and religion. Lucas lifted parts openly and lovingly from various popular culture genres, but the engine that runs it is the "monomyth and held together at its most basic level the standard pattern of the adventures of a mythic hero”
“The Force is defined as "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us." It contains both good and evil. Jedi master Yoda clearly teaches a form of Buddhism. Yet the Lucas liturgy also proclaims "May the Force be with you," a variation on the Christian phrase "May the Lord be with you." The plot includes other symbols and themes from biblical faith. Lucas has embraced both "passive Oriental philosophies and the Judeo- Christian ethic of responsibility and self-sacrifice," according to Pollock. “

Rey Random?

“But in all the orphan fantasies and myths, you always find out who the parents are. and lo and behold, they always turn out to be heroes and kings, not the maid pregnant by the stable boy or the poor couple down the lane who have simply had one child too many”

There are important characters in Star Wars who integral to the plot who are random characters or we do not know their beginnings. However, when they first are introduced they are important and bring something vital to the story that moves saga forward. Padme, Han & Obi Wan are all randoms because the Saga is not about them, it is about Skywalkers. They are supporting characters, best friends and love interests but they are all now ancestors and part of famed lineages because of the roles that they played, with the exception of Obi Want(yet).

Typically, most random orphaned heroes the audience enters their narrative with their journey as babes and we learn the where and the whys of their abandonment and get to root for them through their growth arcs and fall in love with the character. Unlike other heroes that are random we the audience enter the story at their beginnings. Moses’s the Hebrew savior that would become a great magician and leader, his story begins when because great danger from the Pharaoh’s slaughter of the first born, he is abandoned in the bull rushes and fate and destiny have the Pharaohs daughter raise him. In modern myth like Harry Potter, it is the same, we see Harry dropped off at his Aunt’s and Uncle as a mere babe by Professor Gonegal and well-known wizard Albus Dumbledore




TV. Tropes
“What better way to introduce the protagonist of the story than start at his/her birth? This device is used often and is used to have the audience fall in love with the character, because who can't love a baby?
Mainly comes in two types. Type 1: Work literally begins from the birth of the protagonist. A Time Skip or two are permitted. Type 2: Protagonist is shown as an infant at the beginning. Might overlap with Doorstop Baby”

However, when we meet Rey, she is a scavenger, 19 years old she was orphaned child raises herself watched closely by the creature Unkar Plutt. We the audience don’t know the where and the why’s of Rey’s abandonment, it is all a mystery. What we do know about her is that she has survived in the wilderness, by her whit and physical prowess. We don’t have her background story, instead motifs from the Star Wars universe itself and some fairy tales are used to one gain the interest of the audience. But, the audience begins to notice that our hero is very good and talented at things without being given a reason why. So the audience rightly assumes she is of a prodigious lineage. Many in the audience assume she is a Skywalker/Solo but as we have found out outside of the movie she is neither. So who is Rey?

“In myth, when we're presented with children orphaned or suckled by animals, it's generally a sign that their true parentage is actually a remarkable one and they'll grow up to be great leaders, warriors, seers, magicians, or shamans. As they grow, their beauty, or physical prowess, or magical abilities betray a lineage that cannot be hidden by their humble upbringing. Rarely do we encounter a hero whose origins are truly low; at least one parent must be revealed as noble, supernatural, or divine. After a birth trauma and a miraculous survival always comes a span of time symbolically described as "exile in the wilderness," where they hone their skills, test their mettle, and gather their armies, their allies, or their magic, before returning (as they always do) to the world that is their birthright.”



Rey Lineage?


“The orphaned hero is not, however, a mere fantasy cliché; it's a mythic archetype, springing from some of the oldest stories of the world. This archetype includes not only those characters who are literally orphaned by the death of their parents, but also children who are lost, abandoned, cast out, disinherited by evil step–parents, raised in supernatural captivity, or reared by wild animals.”

Our two previous protagonists in the Star Wars saga one is random Anakin, and one is not Luke. With Anakin, the narrative begins when he is very young following the trope so that we can fall in love with him. Luke is not Random for he shares lineage with Anakin the great Jedi and fallen hero. George Lucas had written the saga in order so even though the movie where scene by the audience out of order, the lineage for Luke was always there.

However, this is not the story we get with Rey in TFA, her story begins when she is a full grown adult 19, albeit in suspended animation both emotionally and physically until she is called to her adventure. This type of narrative arc is in opposition to random abandon orphaned babes of fairy tales. Rey’s archetype more narrowly follows the myth of an orphaned child of lineage origin.  As opposed to Luke “with Whose behavior at the beginning of the movie is that of a spoiled child...He whines, sulks, and is generally rebellious. By the end of the movie, however, he has begun to evolve into an honorable, respectable young man. Instead we see immediately that Rey is patient, steadfast, and loyal. She rarely complains or whines about her circumstances.





“We find them everywhere in fantasy fiction: the "orphaned heroes," young men and women whose parents are dead, absent, or unknown, who turn out to be the heirs to the kingdom, the destined pullers of swords from stones, the keys to the riddles, the prophesies' answers, the bearers of powerful magic”

In conclusion, Star Wars is a metaphysical myth with layers of Fairy Tale. These metaphysical and spiritual concepts of the force are what clearly elevate Star Wars from mere fairy tale to modern myth. If there is no genre confusion by the current TPTB Rey will not be Random.  While her character and plot bears motifs of fairy tales like Beauty and the Beast, her underpinning as a character will come from both what she chooses to do in her mythic Hero’s journey and what she discovers about her past and what she is ultimately longing for, family. Where will she get her lineage from or not only time will tell.




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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Mon 30 Jan - 22:20

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Daisy Ridley already explained (in the My Dad Made A Porno podcast) why she was asked to speak in a posh accent and it had nothing to do with Rey's heritage.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I highly doubt that Daisy would openly say she was told to do this in the audition because it ties in with reys parentage. I know from first hand accounts  from 2 people who auditioned for rey that they were told a posh British accent was essential and another American has said this too recently, she was told in the audition she had to be able to speak in a British accent as a must.
@Gemini

Rey didn't grow up around Obi-Wan and it's unlikely her mother or father (if one is his child) ever met him let alone grew up around him. There are arguments in favour of Kenobi lineage but the accent stuff is a weak link because accents aren't genetic. PH has even suggested Rey could have got hers from growing up around Unkar Plutt.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Personally wouldn't call it weak, your accent is a result of who you are raised around. Could you show me where that tweet is? All I saw from him was ignoring someone when they asked about plutt (after a discussion about the accent)
@Gemini

Well, Rey was primarily raised around Unkar Plutt if she's been on Jakku from an early age. Since PH has back peddled on the Rey recognising her family tweets, she might not remember how they spoke, either. It makes no sense to me to attach such importance to Rey having a posh accent like Obi-Wan when there's no link with her upbringing, and likely not with her parents, either.
@Mrs Ben Solo

This whole discussion of accents got me thinking of a conversation I had with my sister a few hours back.... she was telling me about her niece and nephew who are currently  6 and 8 respectively.... they were born in Malaysia and lived there most of their lives, hence had a Malaysian accent...... Last year they moved to Australia.....both have now developed an Australian accent, and their poor Grandmother is having a hard time understanding them.

Similarly, Rey's accent could have changed after her abandonment and would be dependent on whom she interacted with the most.....so there is a strong chance she would have got her accent from talking to Unkar.

Also, I think these were the PH tweets you were referring to.....




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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 22:27

Maybe Unkar is a palace servent and that is the reason he has a POSH accent, did that ever occur to anyone? Unkar still looks like the woodsman from Disney's snow white to me, he is a monstrous version.



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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Mon 30 Jan - 22:34

I get the impression that Unkar is more like Mr. Bumble, starving and exploiting Rey and the other Jakku scavengers....



And this would be Rey....


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by reylo1992 on Mon 30 Jan - 22:35

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@reylo1992

Part II

Heroes in Myth & Fairy Tales; Everyday heroes or children of the legends.


Star Wars Myth of Fairy Tale?

“Lucas set out to create a modern mythology to teach right and wrong. The result was a fusion of "Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe" and Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces," of Arthurian legends and Japanese samurai epics, of Carlos Castaneda's "Tales of Power" and the Narnia tales of C.S. Lewis. “

In determining whether Rey the protagonist of Star Wars will be a random everyday hero , or a child of legend with an important lineage it is important to determine what kind of story the Star Wars Saga is. Is it a simple child’s fairy tale? Or is it a modern mythic saga? Like any great work of art, Star Wars can work on many levels, depending upon its audience, it can be just a great adventure sci fi in space, or children’s fairy tale teaching simple morals or it can be a basis to understand philosophy, spirituality and metaphysics.

The key concept that takes it out of the realm of fairy tale into the world of mythic belief system that is the Force. The Force itself acts as a God force.  I will propose that although it does use fairy tale motifs frequently ultimately the saga is underpinned using concepts derived from ancient myth and religion. Lucas lifted parts openly and lovingly from various popular culture genres, but the engine that runs it is the "monomyth and held together at its most basic level the standard pattern of the adventures of a mythic hero”
“The Force is defined as "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us." It contains both good and evil. Jedi master Yoda clearly teaches a form of Buddhism. Yet the Lucas liturgy also proclaims "May the Force be with you," a variation on the Christian phrase "May the Lord be with you." The plot includes other symbols and themes from biblical faith. Lucas has embraced both "passive Oriental philosophies and the Judeo- Christian ethic of responsibility and self-sacrifice," according to Pollock. “

Rey Random?

“But in all the orphan fantasies and myths, you always find out who the parents are. and lo and behold, they always turn out to be heroes and kings, not the maid pregnant by the stable boy or the poor couple down the lane who have simply had one child too many”

There are important characters in Star Wars who integral to the plot who are random characters or we do not know their beginnings. However, when they first are introduced they are important and bring something vital to the story that moves saga forward. Padme, Han & Obi Wan are all randoms because the Saga is not about them, it is about Skywalkers. They are supporting characters, best friends and love interests but they are all now ancestors and part of famed lineages because of the roles that they played, with the exception of Obi Want(yet).

Typically, most random orphaned heroes the audience enters their narrative with their journey as babes and we learn the where and the whys of their abandonment and get to root for them through their growth arcs and fall in love with the character. Unlike other heroes that are random we the audience enter the story at their beginnings. Moses’s the Hebrew savior that would become a great magician and leader, his story begins when because great danger from the Pharaoh’s slaughter of the first born, he is abandoned in the bull rushes and fate and destiny have the Pharaohs daughter raise him. In modern myth like Harry Potter, it is the same, we see Harry dropped off at his Aunt’s and Uncle as a mere babe by Professor Gonegal and well-known wizard Albus Dumbledore




TV. Tropes
“What better way to introduce the protagonist of the story than start at his/her birth? This device is used often and is used to have the audience fall in love with the character, because who can't love a baby?
Mainly comes in two types. Type 1: Work literally begins from the birth of the protagonist. A Time Skip or two are permitted. Type 2: Protagonist is shown as an infant at the beginning. Might overlap with Doorstop Baby”

However, when we meet Rey, she is a scavenger, 19 years old she was orphaned child raises herself watched closely by the creature Unkar Plutt. We the audience don’t know the where and the why’s of Rey’s abandonment, it is all a mystery. What we do know about her is that she has survived in the wilderness, by her whit and physical prowess. We don’t have her background story, instead motifs from the Star Wars universe itself and some fairy tales are used to one gain the interest of the audience. But, the audience begins to notice that our hero is very good and talented at things without being given a reason why. So the audience rightly assumes she is of a prodigious lineage. Many in the audience assume she is a Skywalker/Solo but as we have found out outside of the movie she is neither. So who is Rey?

“In myth, when we're presented with children orphaned or suckled by animals, it's generally a sign that their true parentage is actually a remarkable one and they'll grow up to be great leaders, warriors, seers, magicians, or shamans. As they grow, their beauty, or physical prowess, or magical abilities betray a lineage that cannot be hidden by their humble upbringing. Rarely do we encounter a hero whose origins are truly low; at least one parent must be revealed as noble, supernatural, or divine. After a birth trauma and a miraculous survival always comes a span of time symbolically described as "exile in the wilderness," where they hone their skills, test their mettle, and gather their armies, their allies, or their magic, before returning (as they always do) to the world that is their birthright.”



Rey Lineage?


“The orphaned hero is not, however, a mere fantasy cliché; it's a mythic archetype, springing from some of the oldest stories of the world. This archetype includes not only those characters who are literally orphaned by the death of their parents, but also children who are lost, abandoned, cast out, disinherited by evil step–parents, raised in supernatural captivity, or reared by wild animals.”

Our two previous protagonists in the Star Wars saga one is random Anakin, and one is not Luke. With Anakin, the narrative begins when he is very young following the trope so that we can fall in love with him. Luke is not Random for he shares lineage with Anakin the great Jedi and fallen hero. George Lucas had written the saga in order so even though the movie where scene by the audience out of order, the lineage for Luke was always there.

However, this is not the story we get with Rey in TFA, her story begins when she is a full grown adult 19, albeit in suspended animation both emotionally and physically until she is called to her adventure. This type of narrative arc is in opposition to random abandon orphaned babes of fairy tales. Rey’s archetype more narrowly follows the myth of an orphaned child of lineage origin.  As opposed to Luke “with Whose behavior at the beginning of the movie is that of a spoiled child...He whines, sulks, and is generally rebellious. By the end of the movie, however, he has begun to evolve into an honorable, respectable young man. Instead we see immediately that Rey is patient, steadfast, and loyal. She rarely complains or whines about her circumstances.





“We find them everywhere in fantasy fiction: the "orphaned heroes," young men and women whose parents are dead, absent, or unknown, who turn out to be the heirs to the kingdom, the destined pullers of swords from stones, the keys to the riddles, the prophesies' answers, the bearers of powerful magic”

In conclusion, Star Wars is a metaphysical myth with layers of Fairy Tale. These metaphysical and spiritual concepts of the force are what clearly elevate Star Wars from mere fairy tale to modern myth. If there is no genre confusion by the current TPTB Rey will not be Random.  While her character and plot bears motifs of fairy tales like Beauty and the Beast, her underpinning as a character will come from both what she chooses to do in her mythic Hero’s journey and what she discovers about her past and what she is ultimately longing for, family. Where will she get her lineage from or not only time will tell.




spacebaby45678
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

: 2016-03-25
@spacebaby45678

And you, you win with your posts Wink Thanks you very much. That's very instructive, especially the part about Rey paralleling John the Baptist because I don't know so much about religious stuff. I agree that Rey as random doesn't make so much sense.

reylo1992
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

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Date d'inscription : 2016-07-22

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 30 Jan - 22:48

@reylo1992

Thank you but for me the point isn't to win or to convince you, I love doing mythological historical research, it was my passion LONG before TFA and will be long after.. I happen to love the genre of science fiction because science fiction is imbued with myth, religion, metaphysics and philosophy...So don't be convinced by me and please continue to post, I love your fairy tale comparisons..the reasons you see similarities there is because they are universal archetypes, see Jung & Campbell... When we discover these archetypes we truly discover ourselves, because these things are inside each and everyone of us. That is why Luke see's himself in the Dagobah cave... it is a metaphor for each and everyone of us, heroes in our own stories to discover our subconscious selves.

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spacebaby45678
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

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