Rey's Lineage Discussion II

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Kylo Men on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 5:02 pm

I would still prefer the narrative circularity of Kenobi to any other answer.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by vaderito on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 5:08 pm

John debunking Reynobi is not a spoiler just like Daisy debunking Soloist, JJ debunking Soloist, Pablo debunking Jyn Skymom and Snoke Plagueis are not spoilers. Fans don't understand that what is a spoiler and what isn't is strictly from LF POV, not from fans one. So I'm not surprised that this close to release they are debunking various stuff such as Rey Virgin Birth, Reynobi, etc.

That said, take a moment of silence for Anthony Breznican for he was the biggest Reynobi cheer based on "inside knowledge" and now it turns out his insiders aren't that reliable. We should offer him all support in this difficult time of betrayal. #RIPBrez&LFLoveAffair
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by ZioRen on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 6:41 pm

I wish they'd outright debunk Reywalker too. In the back of my mind, there's still a nagging fear that she's Luke's kid. No matter how uninspired that story sounds.

I was never in camp Rey Kenobi and found its "evidence" shaky at best, if I'm honest. But at least it wasn't Reywalker.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by IoJovi on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 6:48 pm

I feel bad for Erik Maell (artist who painted The Abduction for SWC 2016).  I met him at this past SWC in April, and I had the most enjoyable conversation with him.  He is a huge believer in Rey Kenobi, and has written his own meta on it.  He does into a lot of the things that were discussed here, such as ring theory, and the reverse parallels between Rey/Kylo and Obi Wan/Anakin.

I always thought Rey Kenobi was the most likely if she were to be related to anyone out of the OT. Still, when I learned Satine had died, I had a feeling it was on the way out.

@ZioRen While no one has ever come out and said Rey isn't Luke's daughter, there has been multiple wreckage towards it on a variety of fronts. ReyGate of course is the most prominent one, but Pablo has also sh** on it more times than I can count. Mark also trolls Reywalkers every chance he can get. I'm not worried about Reylated at this point. I actually think it's likely she's random.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by MyOnlyHope on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 6:50 pm

@ZioRen
For me this was as outright of a Reywalker debunk as what John just did to Reynobi. One has to be really dense or in some serious denial to not to get the message here.

I think the wonderful thing -- especially about this film is it's all about progress and the relationships people are making now. And obviously things are influenced by what you had before. But I just think it's beautiful that the relationships are formed with people that aren't even necessarily -- that wouldn't be classed as family, but family is who you choose, I think. You can choose to love people and bring them into your home and make a life with a group of people who have no blood relation to you.

@IoJovi
The nice thing is that those parallels don't just become null because Rey doesn't have literal Kenobi blood. She can still be representative of something without sharing its DNA.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Saracene on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 8:14 pm

If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by CienaRee on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 8:40 pm

@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene

Definitely,if they had had Rey talk about them or even seeing them/hearing them speak to her in the Force Vision we wouldn't have had this mess for two years now so I get why some people might be disappointed in learning her parents might not be as important as they thought.I mean even if some people were not Reywalker fans initially I get why they might have been convinced that was the case since other than Maz saying that the people Rey's waiting for are never coming back(aka her parents which might have flown over people's heads because prior to that she said the Skywalker light saber was calling to her) the movie keeps this mystery about her parentage so it's normal to speculate they're building towards some big revelation.
Mystery boxes can be a pain in the a**,and it really makes me wonder how Rian would have handled that had he also directed TFA since he was the one who asked JJ to add the little Rey being left on Jakku with Unkar Plutt sequence,without that the circumstances of Rey's abandonment would have been even more obscure.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 8:42 pm

@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 8:51 pm

The whole thing is pretty confusing. Like I wrote repeatedly in previous posts, I never was  very interested in Rey's parentage because I always thought that the identity of her birth family wouldn't be so important for her journey than finding her future family. Still, I let myself convinced by the Rey Kenobi theory given all the parallels that were pointed out.

So the question is: what is the meaning behind the many parallels between Obi-Wan and Rey if they're not related? I tend to see Obi-Wan as good fairy Merryweather sending the "ray of hope" to the Skywalker family but the question is: why this girl in particular? And how does it tie the whole franchise alltogether? Because once again, J.J. - and Colin Trevorrow before him - told that the goal was to give the impression that Episode would be 1, 3 and actually 9 movies alltogether.

So how does Rey fit in that scheme beyond the fact that she could end up married to a Skywalker? Daisy clearly said that there was no immaculate conception in her case contrary to Anakin. And if Anakin had reincarnated, I bet that he would rather have reincarnated shortly after his death in other words in his own grandchild. If she's not related to Obi-Wan, do the parallels mean that she is supposed at least to have his role in the franchise? In other words, she would parallel Obi-Wan a lot just like Finn parallel a lot Luke and that's all?

The whole cast seems pretty tired with the question of her parentage, trying to make people understand that this is not the focus. Why do Rian, Daisy and the whole cast  don't tell clearly people to move on with her parentage, saying i.e. Rey is like any Disney heroine who simply tries to find her path regardless of her parentage?

I am no English-native speaker but from what I understand John is primarily saying that he doesn't think that accents are that important in that story. I read somewhere that young Rey had an American accent and that Rey could have got her English accent from Unkar Plutt. Maybe John was simply saying that we shouldn't focus so much on her parentage whatever the answer is - Kenobi or not.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by snufkin on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 8:59 pm

They have Kylo as the dilemma of the legacy character already and at least are trying something different than what most people assumed from the first cast photo, Rey Solo's adventures with the Beautiful Friendship Gang. She's not a legacy anything, the past doesn't matter to her other than how being an orphan on Jakku has shaped her skills and toughness while her inner nature kept her from being destroyed by the literal monsters she was surrounded by as a vulnerable child/teen/young woman. And those qualities/experiences are what will guide her as the heroine and help her with facing down characters like Snoke and whatever's going to happen with Kylo. Likely also that combination of personal factors for her are what will motivate him to break from the hold Snoke/the past has over him and ally with her.

The problem with any of the lineage theories is that it entails doing homework on the part of the newer fans LF is trying to bring in. Like go back and watch the OT, the PT, or put the CW in your Netflix queue. Like sorry, I'm an OT fan who loves Obi-Wan, loves him winding up Han in the original movie, and there were definite references to him and the dynamic with Vader in the SKB sequences between Rey and Kylo. But if I'm not going to go back and review prior movies/books to get the full explanation, those new fans (either children/casual fans here in the West or in the Eastern market) aren't going to either. At best, I figured if there's some type of concrete connection between her and Obi-Wan, it'll be a goof at the end where it's like the Ark being wheeled into the warehouse at the end of RotLA. I'd still say it's more likely that if there's a connection, whatever Snoke was up to ties in with her family having a connection to the New Force Lore being dropped in R1 and the novels/comics. However any detailed information/tie-in about her parents and the connection to Jakku will be like Jyn's family, deferred to novels. Her parents won't be boring nobodies because LF aren't going to commission somebody to write a novel about that. But whatever the full backstory is won't be taking up screen time.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 9:00 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by IoJovi on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 9:06 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened

So much this. The simple thing is, Rey is the main protagonist with unknown origins in a story about the Skywalkers. Therefore, the conclusion of most fans is that she has to be one herself.

There is nothing in the film that points to Reywalker, and several things that actually point away from it if one is astute.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 9:13 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened
It wasn't, but they've kept it around so long because it's a still-functional red-herring.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Lucina on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 9:25 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened

So much this.  The simple thing is, Rey is the main protagonist with unknown origins in a story about the Skywalkers.  Therefore, the conclusion of most fans is that she has to be one herself.  

There is nothing in the film that points to Reywalker, and several things that actually point away from it if one is astute.
@IoJovi

Well, if I'm honest, this quote from Maz sounds pretty Reywalker to me:

"That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him. And now, it calls to you."

Of course she says afterwards that the people Rey is waiting for are never coming back, but I must admit that the above quote made me consider Reywalker for a while, even though I was never a fan of that theory.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Piper Maru on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 9:36 pm

I've said this a thousand times, but before I joined the fandom I didn't even think about Rey's parents. They were inconsequential to me, what mattered were her own choices moving her forward. It was clear that 1) they would never come back for her 2) she knew it 3) she was in denial and the events of The Force Awakens helped her to move on from that.

Yes, there were visual parallels between Rey and Obi-Wan, but they were just that: visual parallels. When you're analyzing a narrative, you need to analyze it in context and only when it's complete. This specific plot is not finished, you can infere certain things, but you can't affirm anything. You need to wait until the story is over. This is Discourse Analysis 101. Of course I don't expect academic rigor from fandom, but some good sense is always welcome.

Obi-Wan was visually associated with Rey probably to invoke the idea of Rey being "wise beyond her years", since Obi-Wan is the personification of "wisdom" in the OT and PT.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by snufkin on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 9:47 pm

@Piper Maru - thank you for the post, absolutely the wisest take on the topic! The visual references, who knows? It might be like Kylo's urn of ashes, JJ thought it would look cool. And that whole sequence between the two of them, we all know where it really matters is when it carries them into completely new and groundbreaking territory (in part thanks to Ava DuVernay's input on that sequence)

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by LesCousinsDangereux on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 10:10 pm

@Lucina wrote:

Well, if I'm honest, this quote from Maz sounds pretty Reywalker to me:

"That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him. And now, it calls to you."

Of course she says afterwards that the people Rey is waiting for are never coming back, but I must admit that the above quote made me consider Reywalker for a while, even though I was never a fan of that theory.
@Lucina

But remember the movie is for everyone, so also GA, some of which may never have watched a SW movie, or if they did it is 30 years ago and they do not remember much. SW fans (who are like walking encyclopaedias when it comes to SW) think the movie is for them only and forget to consider other perspectives.

Pre-TFA, I was a GA member who is familiar with OT (have watched it maybe 2-3 times in the span of 40 years) and somewhat familiar with the PT (which I really disliked). I was not familiar with EU novels or comics or animated series; did not even know they existed. Still, I think I knew more about the previous SW stories than most people in the audience. (I even heard that in R1, some people thought Jyn is Rey!) Now, even I would have some difficulty recognising a cylindrical object as a lightsaber. Let alone recognising a particular lightsaber as Luke’s original one (way beyond me); and frankly I did not remember from the top of my head that Luke had used two lightsabers in the OT.

So Rey, who thinks Jedi and Luke Skylwalker are myths, who likely does not know what a lightsaber is and would not recognise one if she saw one, goes to the cellar in Maz’s castle touches that strange object and has a vision. (I personally thought at the time, Aha this seems like a lightsaber. But remember many people in the audience would not know even that).

So of course Maz has to explain to Rey [and to the audience] that this is a lightsaber, it was Luke’s and his father’s before him (ie Vader’s. And I am thinking to myself, aha this must be his original lightsaber then, because now it starts coming back to me that Obi-wan gave him a lightsaber early on saying it was his father’s. And I am sure many others in audience were thinking/remembering the same.) So this line of Maz’s is important for us (the audience) and Rey to know what this thing is.

But SW fans, recognise it immediately (“aha Luke’s blue lightsaber”). So when Maz says that line – which for them is redundant info- they think “why is Maz telling us that? It must be for a reason.” So their reasoning is: Since Maz points out it was vader’s then his son’s and now calls to Rey, Rey must be Luke’s daughter. Else why would she bother telling us who the previous owners were (since we already know). But remember, most people do not know. That is the point. And Rey does not know either. Maz was just giving us and Rey some important background info. And the lightsaber called to Rey, as she is the only Force sensitive person in Maz’s castle. Simple.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Piper Maru on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 10:15 pm

@LesCousinsDangereux wrote:
@Lucina wrote:

Well, if I'm honest, this quote from Maz sounds pretty Reywalker to me:

"That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him. And now, it calls to you."

Of course she says afterwards that the people Rey is waiting for are never coming back, but I must admit that the above quote made me consider Reywalker for a while, even though I was never a fan of that theory.
@Lucina

But remember the movie is for everyone, so also GA, some of which may never have watched a SW movie, or if they did it is 30 years ago and they do not remember much. SW fans (who are like walking encyclopaedias when it comes to SW) think the movie is for them only and forget to consider other perspectives.

Pre-TFA, I was a GA member who is familiar with OT (have watched it maybe 2-3 times in the span of 40 years) and somewhat familiar with the PT (which I really disliked). I was not familiar with EU novels or comics or animated series; did not even know they existed. Still, I think I knew more about the previous SW stories than most people in the audience. (I even heard that in R1, some people thought Jyn is Rey!) Now, even I would have some difficulty recognising a cylindrical object as a lightsaber. Let alone recognising a particular lightsaber as Luke’s original one (way beyond me); and frankly I did not remember from the top of my head that Luke had used two lightsabers in the OT.

So Rey, who thinks Jedi and Luke Skylwalker are myths, who likely does not know what a lightsaber is and would not recognise one if she saw one, goes to the cellar in Maz’s castle touches that strange object and has a vision. (I personally thought at the time, Aha this seems like a lightsaber. But remember many people in the audience would not know even that).

So of course Maz has to explain to Rey [and to the audience] that this is a lightsaber, it was Luke’s and his father’s before him (ie Vader’s. And I am thinking to myself, aha this must be his original lightsaber then, because now it starts coming back to me that Obi-wan gave him a lightsaber early on saying it was his father’s. And I am sure many others in audience were thinking/remembering the same.) So this line of Maz’s is important for us (the audience) and Rey to know what this thing is.

But SW fans, recognise it immediately (“aha Luke’s blue lightsaber”). So when Maz says that line – which for them is redundant info- they think “why is Maz telling us that? It must be for a reason.” So their reaonsing is: Since Maz points out it was vader’s then his son’s and now calls to Rey, Rey must be Luke’s daughter. Else why would she bother telling us who the previous owners were (since we already know). But remember, most people do not know. That is the point. And Rey does not know either. Maz was just giving us and Rey some important background info. And the lightsaber called to Rey, as she is the only Force sensitive person in Maz’s castle. Simple.
@LesCousinsDangereux

Thank you.

That line was clearly there to explain things to the brand new audience that was having their first contact with Star Wars (children and teenagers) and casual viewers.

God, I am a SW fan ever since I was a kid but when I watched The Force Awakens for the first time, I had no idea that was Anakin's lightsaber.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Saracene on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 10:25 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened

Well, it's not just what *is* in the movie that counts, it's also what's *not* in the movie. And what's not in the movie is any kind of information about Rey's parents other than the vaguest "my family". In any other movie, we'd get some sort of backstory on them, because in order for Rey's emotional "should I wait for my family" dilemma to register, we need a clearer idea of what exactly she's giving up and what her hopes are based on in the first place. But all it amounts to in TFA is Rey repeating "I must get back" over and over.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by CienaRee on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 10:38 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened

Well, it's not just what *is* in the movie that counts, it's also what's *not* in the movie. And what's not in the movie is any kind of information about Rey's parents other than the vaguest "my family". In any other movie, we'd get some sort of backstory on them, because in order for Rey's emotional "should I wait for my family" dilemma to register, we need a clearer idea of what exactly she's giving up and what her hopes are based on in the first place. But all it amounts to in TFA is Rey repeating "I must get back" over and over.
@Saracene

Yes,if you compare it with ANH that movie gave us information on Luke's father(and just enough mystery so the twist in ESB doesn't come as twist for the sake of twist even though at the the time of making ANH Vader wasn't intend to be Luke's father so if they hadn't made more movies what Obi Wan said would have been true and straightforward without any Mystery box BS) and how he was a Jedi which later explains Luke's decision to join the Rebellion and train with Obi Wan to become a Jedi himself.As a stand alone movie you saw his journey from a farm boy to a man who wanted to honor his father's legacy. TFA however give us none of it with Rey we're meant to assume that she's left behind her past to move forward but we're never shown her coming to that decision it also doesn't help that right after her most important moment of taking the light saber and defeating Kylo there's a time skip so the movie fails in that regard.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 10:48 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened

Well, it's not just what *is* in the movie that counts, it's also what's *not* in the movie. And what's not in the movie is any kind of information about Rey's parents other than the vaguest "my family". In any other movie, we'd get some sort of backstory on them, because in order for Rey's emotional "should I wait for my family" dilemma to register, we need a clearer idea of what exactly she's giving up and what her hopes are based on in the first place. But all it amounts to in TFA is Rey repeating "I must get back" over and over.
@Saracene

I think that the main point with the Rey's family was exactly the fact THEY LEFT her behind. And the most natural question you can ask yourself what kind of people could do this? Or what happened to them to leave their daughter behind? Their identity is irrelevant in this context - it's just their actions (or whatever happened to them) that counts and which is crucial for Rey as a person.

Are they Mr. and Mrs Kenobi, Palpatine, Dooku, Hutt or Binks are irrelevant and adds zero to Rey's character - that's what my point that the red herring in or out of TFA was solely product of the fans' fixation on her identity (in terms of the lineage) instead on the things that really matters for Rey's character motivation and possible consequences for her future choices.

I agree, though, in case you're suggesting that the explanation of what really happened to Rey actually was in TFA - we would likely be spared of the 2 years long parentage torture. At least at some degree because for some of the hard core lineage addicts even that wouldn't be enough.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by CienaRee on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 10:55 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened

Well, it's not just what *is* in the movie that counts, it's also what's *not* in the movie. And what's not in the movie is any kind of information about Rey's parents other than the vaguest "my family". In any other movie, we'd get some sort of backstory on them, because in order for Rey's emotional "should I wait for my family" dilemma to register, we need a clearer idea of what exactly she's giving up and what her hopes are based on in the first place. But all it amounts to in TFA is Rey repeating "I must get back" over and over.
@Saracene

I think that the main point with the Rey's family was exactly the fact THEY LEFT her behind. And the most natural question you can ask yourself what kind of people could do this? Or what happened to them to leave their daughter behind? Their identity is irrelevant in this context - it's just their actions (or whatever happened to them) that counts and which is crucial for Rey as a person.

Are they Mr. and Mrs Kenobi, Palpatine, Dooku, Hutt or Binks are irrelevant and adds zero to Rey's character - that's what my point that the red herring in or out of TFA was solely product of the fans' fixation on her identity (in terms of the lineage) instead on the things that really matters for Rey's character motivation and possible consequences for her future choices.

I agree, though, in case you're suggesting that the explanation of what really happened to Rey actually was in TFA - we would likely be spared of the 2 years long parentage torture. At least at some degree because for some of the hard core lineage addicts even that wouldn't be enough.
@Darth_Awakened

I'm actually curious after the release of ANH were people as interested/obsessed in who Luke's father/parents was/were or did they not care at all?Because I've heard that many people were shocked at the ''I am your father''reveal and were convinced Vader was lying.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 11:12 pm

@CienaRee wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:If the message of Rey's character is about letting go of the past and choosing family that has no blood relation to her, then the mystery box is just about the worst way to execute that story. Trouble is, it's not enough to just make a movie and tell a story, these days studios are anxious to have people talk and speculate in between the movies so they get made with one eye on the internet. "Who are Rey's parents" has absolutely no importance in-story, but because her origins are so deliberately obscured all that insistence on what Rey's character is about from Daisy falls on deaf ears. And when I say origins I don't just mean who her parents are, but even stuff like, does Rey actually even remember her parents? Was it both of them who left her? What did they tell her to make her wait all these years? Does she have any good memories of them? (I know the book answers some of these, but in the movies which is ultimately what really counts it's all blank space).
@Saracene
Ultimately ReySky/Rey's parentage is going to go down in history as the biggest red-herring of all time.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The red herring that ultimately wasn't in TFA at all.
It was purely FANS business.
@Darth_Awakened

Well, it's not just what *is* in the movie that counts, it's also what's *not* in the movie. And what's not in the movie is any kind of information about Rey's parents other than the vaguest "my family". In any other movie, we'd get some sort of backstory on them, because in order for Rey's emotional "should I wait for my family" dilemma to register, we need a clearer idea of what exactly she's giving up and what her hopes are based on in the first place. But all it amounts to in TFA is Rey repeating "I must get back" over and over.
@Saracene

I think that the main point with the Rey's family was exactly the fact THEY LEFT her behind. And the most natural question you can ask yourself what kind of people could do this? Or what happened to them to leave their daughter behind? Their identity is irrelevant in this context - it's just their actions (or whatever happened to them) that counts and which is crucial for Rey as a person.

Are they Mr. and Mrs Kenobi, Palpatine, Dooku, Hutt or Binks are irrelevant and adds zero to Rey's character - that's what my point that the red herring in or out of TFA was solely product of the fans' fixation on her identity (in terms of the lineage) instead on the things that really matters for Rey's character motivation and possible consequences for her future choices.

I agree, though, in case you're suggesting that the explanation of what really happened to Rey actually was in TFA - we would likely be spared of the 2 years long parentage torture. At least at some degree because for some of the hard core lineage addicts even that wouldn't be enough.
@Darth_Awakened

I'm actually curious after the release of ANH were people as interested/obsessed in who Luke's father/parents was/were or did they not care at all?Because I've heard that many people were shocked at the ''I am your father''reveal and were convinced Vader was lying.
@CienaRee

I don't think they were. Because Luke's parentage wasn't presented as mystery at all in ANH (I'am still insisting that Rey's parentage wasn't presented as a mystery as well, but I do allow other opinions on the subject).

Everybody knew after ANH Luke was an orphan. And fairly early in the movie you got almost everything you need to know at this point about his father - and that his uncle is very uncomfortable about the subject even to lie to Luke about his true profession (a freighter pilot), a bit later Obi Wan explains to Luke the real story that his father was a Jedi.
But the main Luke's motivation in ANH and later on is completely different than Rey's - he is determined to become like an ideal image he has of his father. The Luke's journey, the emotional part of it is tied to this ideal image he got as a kid and later on on accepting the reality who his father really is, and his own inner mature strength to accept him as such.

Rey, on the contrary in the beginning of TFA doesn't have that clear image of whom she idolize, she is stuck with her own fantasy on her family which could present her own projection of security (a family as a symbol of a security when we're kids) she is dealing with the problem that Luke didn't have to at all. His security (Owen and Beru) were constantly present while he was growing up.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by rey09 on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 11:15 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
I think that the main point with the Rey's family was exactly the fact THEY LEFT her behind. And the most natural question you can ask yourself what kind of people could do this? Or what happened to them to leave their daughter behind? Their identity is irrelevant in this context - it's just their actions (or whatever happened to them) that counts and which is crucial for Rey as a person.

Are they Mr. and Mrs Kenobi, Palpatine, Dooku, Hutt or Binks are irrelevant and adds zero to Rey's character - that's what my point that the red herring in or out of TFA was solely product of the  fans' fixation on her identity (in terms of the lineage) instead on the things that really matters for Rey's character motivation and possible consequences for her future choices.

I agree, though, in case you're suggesting that the explanation of what really happened to Rey  actually was in TFA - we would likely be spared of the 2 years long parentage torture. At least at some degree because for some of the hard core lineage addicts even that wouldn't be enough.
@Darth_Awakened EXACTLY. Her parents actions matter, not who they are really. The idea of them abandoning her because of her crazy powers makes most sense to me, and would complete her bond with Kylo- not only are they two powerful force people, even their parents couldn't be there for them- and hers left her to rot! It would be very humbling for kylo, he'll realize at least his family never gave up on him. And I think in the end, Snoke will somehow manipulate her using her abandonment, giving the climax for epi 9.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Lucina on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 11:23 pm

@LesCousinsDangereux wrote:
@Lucina wrote:

Well, if I'm honest, this quote from Maz sounds pretty Reywalker to me:

"That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him. And now, it calls to you."

Of course she says afterwards that the people Rey is waiting for are never coming back, but I must admit that the above quote made me consider Reywalker for a while, even though I was never a fan of that theory.
@Lucina

But remember the movie is for everyone, so also GA, some of which may never have watched a SW movie, or if they did it is 30 years ago and they do not remember much. SW fans (who are like walking encyclopaedias when it comes to SW) think the movie is for them only and forget to consider other perspectives.

Pre-TFA, I was a GA member who is familiar with OT (have watched it maybe 2-3 times in the span of 40 years) and somewhat familiar with the PT (which I really disliked). I was not familiar with EU novels or comics or animated series; did not even know they existed. Still, I think I knew more about the previous SW stories than most people in the audience. (I even heard that in R1, some people thought Jyn is Rey!) Now, even I would have some difficulty recognising a cylindrical object as a lightsaber. Let alone recognising a particular lightsaber as Luke’s original one (way beyond me); and frankly I did not remember from the top of my head that Luke had used two lightsabers in the OT.

So Rey, who thinks Jedi and Luke Skylwalker are myths, who likely does not know what a lightsaber is and would not recognise one if she saw one, goes to the cellar in Maz’s castle touches that strange object and has a vision. (I personally thought at the time, Aha this seems like a lightsaber. But remember many people in the audience would not know even that).

So of course Maz has to explain to Rey [and to the audience] that this is a lightsaber, it was Luke’s and his father’s before him (ie Vader’s. And I am thinking to myself, aha this must be his original lightsaber then, because now it starts coming back to me that Obi-wan gave him a lightsaber early on saying it was his father’s. And I am sure many others in audience were thinking/remembering the same.) So this line of Maz’s is important for us (the audience) and Rey to know what this thing is.

But SW fans, recognise it immediately (“aha Luke’s blue lightsaber”). So when Maz says that line – which for them is redundant info- they think “why is Maz telling us that? It must be for a reason.” So their reasoning is: Since Maz points out it was vader’s then his son’s and now calls to Rey, Rey must be Luke’s daughter. Else why would she bother telling us who the previous owners were (since we already know). But remember, most people do not know. That is the point. And Rey does not know either. Maz was just giving us and Rey some important background info. And the lightsaber called to Rey, as she is the only Force sensitive person in Maz’s castle. Simple.
@LesCousinsDangereux

It might have been the intention of Lucasfilm to simply give some background information to the audience. Still, it is not surprising to me, that many people, who were familiar with the Star Wars universe beforehand, took it as a hint to Rey's parentage. It also didn't help as @Saracene pointed out, that Rey's backstory is kept very vague in the movie. So people see: Rey's family is missing -> Luke is missing; Skywalker lightsaber calls to Rey -> Rey is a Skywalker!

Of course this makes for a lame story (that's why I discarded that idea pretty quickly) but with all the recycled elements in TFA (Starkiller Base...), people simply accepted it as another rehash of the ESB twist ("I am your father!").

Also many people simply expect the main hero of a Skywalker trilogy to be a Skywalker.

So I think it is all these elements combined that created the monstrosity that is Reywalker lol! Lucasfilm should have thought of that!

What is surprising to me though, is the fact that there are still people in the Star Wars fandom, who follow the news, and still believe in Reywalker, despite all the hints to the contrary.
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