ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 25 Feb - 2:22

Is there any OFFICIAL confirmation that the rain scene is set in the future? I read this everywhere, but it's mostly speculation. There's no rain in the comic, but I believe they are the same scene. And I agree with @MyOnlyHope. It's quite simple: the clan leader had Anakin's lightsaber, Kylo killed him and stole the saber, Maz stole from Kylo.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by MyOnlyHope on Sat 25 Feb - 2:24

@Gemini wrote:Although that scene is not in the rain in that comic, it looks like the same place Luke is.



@myonlyhope

That's not what happens in the backstory we have from early spoilers. Anakins saber is stolen by maz before this scene takes place in the rain.(as I remember reading the spoilers)

@Gemini
In one version of old spoilers, Maz stole the saber from Kylo and the KOR when they were all sitting around a campfire. In another, she was the one who picked it up from the battlefield. In yet another it was just floating around space with Luke's hand. In other words, we have several conflicting stories here. I'm going to guess that one version of the story was, at one point, chosen and stuck with.

You're right about the rain. The thing is though, that's clearly salad bowl he's stabbing. I believe it is still meant to be a representation of the clan leader stabbing.

And nobody ever said there wasn't a saber. I think most of us agreed there clearly was. The topics of debate were 1) whether or not the saber would be relevant to the story seeing as how it didn't make it into the movie, and 2) whether it was Obi-Wan's saber.

Well, I think we have our answer to the second question. It's clearly not Obi-Wan's saber. It's Anakin's.


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Gemini on Sat 25 Feb - 2:25

I think it's the past

It does seem to be anakins

I'm just glad I wasn't piecing together something that was non existent in terms of the back story and what's happening in that scene. He also gets a vision of rey through that saber.

I still am pretty sure it's not anakins saber in his hand in the trailer but that's just me looking at the sharpened image and my personal opinion

Stlll not sure if it will even be in 8. I think it will though. Be it anakins or someone else's

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by snufkin on Sat 25 Feb - 2:35

@Piper Maru wrote:Is there any OFFICIAL confirmation that the rain scene is set in the future? I read this everywhere, but it's mostly speculation. There's no rain in the comic, but I believe they are the same scene. And I agree with @MyOnlyHope. It's quite simple: the clan leader had Anakin's lightsaber, Kylo killed him and stole the saber, Maz stole from Kylo.

@Piper Maru

Not official. Unofficial is that one of the classic filmmakers whose influence is felt on the franchise is David Lean (which is why I wonder how much of Rey and Kylo owe to Tanya and Pasha/Strelnikov in Dr. Zhivago), who used the technique of moving from left to right across the screen to denote passages of time and progress in a story. GL referenced Lawrence of Arabia in both the PT and OT and there are several callbacks to it in the Jakku sequences/stills of both Rey and Finn.

Lucas takes the homage one step further. They don’t just film in the same location, they match the shot and the motion. In Lawrence of Arabia, Dryden (Rains), General Allenby (Jack Hawkins), and Colonel Brighton (Anthony Quayle) discuss politics while walking toward a moving camera with the columns on the right side of the screen and the building on the left. The scene is matched almost exactly (with a bit of a special effects touch-up to make it seem more like Naboo) when Anakin and Padmé arrive on Naboo and discuss Padmé’s political career.

No cited source of where Lean said this, but the entire movie shows movement across the screen from left to right to emphasize the distances (physical, personal, and political) covered over the course of the movie (source):

Both movies are journeys that strive to illuminate countries, cultures, time periods, and characters. Lean acknowledged that he filmed the action left to right in Lawrence to emphasize that the film’s a journey.

Just for fun, the composition of the Force Back and what we hopefully can expect when the KoR are shown in depth is another one of the major influences on the OT, how Kurosawa composes scenes and the positioning/distance between the characters

How Legendary Director Akira Kurosawa Used Movement to Tell His Stories Visually

Kurosawa wasn't just a master of camera movement and composition, but also moving his characters in the frame in the most interesting way possible to tell the story. Creating new frames with each camera movement makes them feel much more motivated, especially when the final frame of the movement gives you a completely new piece of information that you wouldn't have gotten if the camera didn't move.


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Gemini on Sat 25 Feb - 2:36

@MyOnlyHope

I agree I think the artists have decided it's anakins in their depiction of the scene. (How much do they know about the saber?) However it doesn't look like anakins in the rain in the trailer, not by a long shot. Everyone originally thought it was Luke's for a reason and that reason was that it looks like Luke's hilt. No one thought it was anakins.







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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by panki on Sat 25 Feb - 2:46

I'm skeptical of the canon value of things that appear in trailers but are later removed from movies after Rogue One. Take all those scenes we expected to see like Jyn and the rest of the team running on the beach with the DS plans, Vader standing with his back to the camera staring at the red screen, Saw Gerrera's initial dialogue and hairstyle etc......none of that is canon so I wouldn't consider TFA trailer scenes that contradict the movie canon either.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by MindAndMagic on Sat 25 Feb - 2:49

I agree with @myonlyhope. It does look like Anakin's saber and it makes complete sense for it be so since we know from TFA just how much Kylo values it and considers it his birth right to have it ("That lightsaber. It belongs to me"). I don't see why people would think it's Luke's green one, presumably he keeps the latter to himself and TFA emphasizes the importance of Anakin's original saber. Technically, it was also Luke's until he constructed his own. To be quite honest, I can't make out any fine details from all these blurry images in the movie and I am perfectly willing to just wait and see. We're still not 100% sure how it will play out, but since we're going to see an elaborated version of Rey's vision, it's only logical that this scene with the clan leader will feature again in some form and one possibility is it will explain what happened to the saber and how Maz eventually got hold of it. I am fairly certain it is set in the past. With so many changes it's tricky to tell which bits will end up being important in the end. The vision is literally impossible to decipher right now precisely because of this as well as lack of info.


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Gemini on Sat 25 Feb - 2:51

Does it look like anakins here though in the actual live footage? Be honest, it looks like Luke's or obi wans



I think it's a possible upcoming twist in the story

That's not anakins saber he is holding. Look at the end of it..look at the back of it, look at the ridges.



Anyhoo I'm not gonna fight. It could be anakins it may be anakins it is anakins in he comic but to me it's not in live footage.

I just can't look at that footage and say that it's anakins. It's not.

I'm pretty sure it's the past though not the future in the scene

I think it's on mustafar and that's vaders castle in the back the rain is foreshadowing reylo future meeting though on ach tu
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by IoJovi on Sat 25 Feb - 3:04

@Piper Maru wrote:Is there any OFFICIAL confirmation that the rain scene is set in the future? I read this everywhere, but it's mostly speculation. There's no rain in the comic, but I believe they are the same scene. And I agree with @MyOnlyHope. It's quite simple: the clan leader had Anakin's lightsaber, Kylo killed him and stole the saber, Maz stole from Kylo.

@Piper Maru

I don't think it's ever been confirmed, but if you judge by Rey looking left being in the past, and looking right to be in the future, I'd say it's in the future. I'm pretty sold on that analogy.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 25 Feb - 3:11

@panki wrote:I'm skeptical of the canon value of things that appear in trailers but are later removed from movies after Rogue One. Take all those scenes we expected to see like Jyn and the rest of the team running on the beach with the DS plans, Vader standing with his back to the camera staring at the red screen, Saw Gerrera's initial dialogue and hairstyle etc......none of that is canon so I wouldn't consider TFA trailer scenes that contradict the movie canon either.
@panki

Agreed. TFA trailer even changed Kylo's dialogue with Darth Vader's mask so he would look like Luke (changing 'grandfather' for 'father') and all the "the Force runs strong in my family" blabbering that never made it to the final cut.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Guest on Sat 25 Feb - 3:12

@IoJovi wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:Is there any OFFICIAL confirmation that the rain scene is set in the future? I read this everywhere, but it's mostly speculation. There's no rain in the comic, but I believe they are the same scene. And I agree with @MyOnlyHope. It's quite simple: the clan leader had Anakin's lightsaber, Kylo killed him and stole the saber, Maz stole from Kylo.

@Piper Maru

I don't think it's ever been confirmed, but if you judge by Rey looking left being in the past, and looking right to be in the future, I'd say it's in the future. I'm pretty sold on that analogy.
@IoJovi

Yeah I think it's the future too. I used to think it was possibly Kylo saving Rey from the Jedi Massacre before reygate, but ever since then I've believed it's from the future and I think it's on Ahch-To, which I think may be a stronger case since the big shadow seen in the background is speculated to be the force tree from the pinewoods set, as well as reports of a rain machine being used during filming in Ireland. As for the lightsaber, I think it looks like Luke's ROTJ one personally. The hilt looks golden to me although it is really hard to see. As for the clan leader, maybe he's guarding one of the Jedi Temples? I dunno and quite frankly, I don't really care. I'm just speculating but it could be in the future or the past and the lightsaber could be anyones.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 25 Feb - 3:16

@Gemini wrote:I think it's the past

It does seem to be anakins

I'm just glad I wasn't piecing together something that was non existent in terms of the back story and what's happening in that scene. He also gets a vision of rey through that saber.

I still am pretty sure it's not anakins saber in his hand in the trailer but that's just me looking at the sharpened image and my personal opinion

Stlll not sure if it will even be in 8. I think it will though. Be it anakins or someone else's

@Gemini

That looks like Anakins Saber but the one in the trailer is different and looks nothing at all like Anakins, which is highly distinctive. The Knights of Ren are relic hunters, I am pretty sure after Maz stole Anakin's from them, Kylo and the Knights went looking for others.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Gemini on Sat 25 Feb - 3:35

@IoJovi wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:Is there any OFFICIAL confirmation that the rain scene is set in the future? I read this everywhere, but it's mostly speculation. There's no rain in the comic, but I believe they are the same scene. And I agree with @MyOnlyHope. It's quite simple: the clan leader had Anakin's lightsaber, Kylo killed him and stole the saber, Maz stole from Kylo.

@Piper Maru

I don't think it's ever been confirmed, but if you judge by Rey looking left being in the past, and looking right to be in the future, I'd say it's in the future.  I'm pretty sold on that analogy.  
@IoJovi

The clan figting the seven is clearly the past in the old spoilers.

Pablo confirmed it's a clan leader he stabs.

My bets it's the same scene from the past. Because it's a clan in the past scene and it's a clan leader he stabs in the movie. Lots of dead clan members around the seven, in the official marvel comics they are bodies not rocks.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by ReyofLightSide on Sat 25 Feb - 3:41

To me it looks like Kylo is holding Obi-wan's saber in the rain in the movie, and he is looking at someone or something on the ground. And if he was holding it did it trigger his vision of Rey (where he notices her while in the rain), like Anakin's triggered her visions with Kylo in them?  

Buuuuut I think Kylo has been seeing visions of Rey for a long time- so pre-salad bowl stabbing. And if the salad bowl is from the future (he saves Rey) then why does he notice her in the vision in the rain and start walking towards her?

Luke has his green saber in his possession.
Rey has Anakin's blue saber in hers.
Obi-wan's saber is....?

ETA: and yet it looks like it could be Anakin's saber in the comic but Obi-wan's blade is also blue on his saber. Arggggh.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 25 Feb - 3:50

What about the recent spoilers about Mustafar and Obi-Wan's lightsaber? It's probably unofficial, but I think it's way more possible that we see Obi-Wan's saber there.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Gemini on Sat 25 Feb - 3:54

This is why I'm confused


It's anakins in the comic(now i look again it's the same as in the chest which is anakins) it leads you to believe it's anakins in the old spoilers, however in the trailer it's clearly not anakins saber.

Is is this why it was removed?

Because it's an upcoming twist?

I don't know and my brain hurts

Edit - god I think I'm bloody done with this saber theory it probably won't even appear in the next movie my head hurts


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by ReyofLightSide on Sat 25 Feb - 3:57

The twist could be this:

Since Anakin is Kylo's grandpappy, Anakin's saber triggered Rey's visions of Kylo.

Kylo touches Obi-wan's saber and he sees a (or another) vision of Rey because....Obi-wan is her grandpappy.

If this is it, then it would be why they are going to great lengths to hide it/deny it is Obi-wan's saber Kylo is holding.


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Guest on Sat 25 Feb - 3:58

@Gemini wrote:This is why I'm confused


It's anakins in the comic, it leads you to believe it's anakins in the old spoilers however in the trailer movie it's clearly shaped like obi wans saber

Is is this why it was removed?

Because it's an upcoming twist?
@Gemini

Maybe. Or maybe certain things were changed and so some things like the lightsaber were deemed insignificant to the scene and thus removed for what had changed. Certain things like young Rey and Ewan McGregor being called in were last minute. Who knows.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by DarthRen on Sat 25 Feb - 4:02

@Piper Maru wrote:Is there any OFFICIAL confirmation that the rain scene is set in the future? I read this everywhere, but it's mostly speculation. There's no rain in the comic, but I believe they are the same scene. And I agree with @MyOnlyHope. It's quite simple: the clan leader had Anakin's lightsaber, Kylo killed him and stole the saber, Maz stole from Kylo.

@Piper Maru

I think these vision are a basic outline what will happen to Rey or her future. She ran into Kylo at what seemed snowy planet SKB and Kylo was without his mask and circumstances were different. Like Kylo killed Clan leader but also that he'll save her. Maybe not in this style but somehow will. Speculations about him saving her when she falls off the cliff at Ahc-To.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Gemini on Sat 25 Feb - 4:06

As said above im just about done with this saber theory i can't decode this movie anymore, lolz, my brain literally hurts

This comic should have made things clearer but its just confused me more because the hilts are not  matching in the comic and the trailer.are these comic guys just going off the old spoilers? Do they know the future story? Future twists?


This has had me going over everything with a fine tooth comb for months and I've carefully been deciphering scenes and to top it all off it got stolen from me by a big YouTuber ..oyyy it's been mental and exhausting lol
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by ReyofLightSide on Sat 25 Feb - 4:11

And to add to the confusion- the drawings of the KOR show that at least one has a light saber in his/her possession.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Gemini on Sat 25 Feb - 4:14

@ReyofLightSide wrote:And to add to the confusion- the drawings of the KOR show that at least one has a light saber in his/her possession.
@ReyofLightSide

Lmao and the guy stabbed looks like a KOR with his cloaks

Jebus...right I'm done lol. It will be what it will be

Anakins

Obis

Or not even in the movie cuz it's old sith
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 25 Feb - 4:27

I love meta and analysis, but I think it's useless to read too much into the Forceback.

Not because the information there is irrelevant, but because everything about that scene was deliberately done to confuse Rey -- and the audience, since Rey's our surrogate. All images there are distorted, mixed in space/time and different from the real thing (the snow fight is the main example of this.)

And not only that, but it is the scene with the most differences between movie, books, and comics. In the movie, we have the random scene of Rey being abandoned. In the books, Rey sees young Ben Solo and hears a man calling her "sweetheart". In the comics, the clan leader has a lightsaber.

So, yeah. Trying to analyze it will only give us a headache.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 25 Feb - 4:30

The Knights of Ren are relic hunters, they would be looking for more than one saber and Maz stole Anakins so... Ewan was called in at the last minute but Obi talking to Rey was well planned out, James Arnold Taylor recorded Obi's voice for the vision first.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10

Post by Guest on Sat 25 Feb - 4:55

@spacebaby45678 wrote:The Knights of Ren are relic hunters, they would be looking for more than one saber and Maz stole Anakins so... Ewan was called in at the last minute but Obi talking to Rey was well planned out, James Arnold Taylor recorded Obi's voice for the vision first.
@spacebaby45678

Still doesn't mean he's speaking to her because she's his granddaughter for definite in my opinion. Seems like objects and relics strong in the force "influence" or "echo" things in this new continuity. Since Obi-Wan was the guardian of the saber and of the Skywalkers for a long time, maybe Rey touching the lightsaber called to and summon Obi-Wan's spirit and since he is one with the Force and in a sort of "cosmic force space" (where force ghosts are in death) and know everything about the past, present and future, he would know Rey's future and the future of the Skywalkers, hence he could be speaking to Rey because he knows her destiny - a destiny that's "intertwined" with Kylo Ren and destined to bring the broken family back together - she is a scavenger who finds and mends things after all.

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