The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Page 26 of 40 Previous  1 ... 14 ... 25, 26, 27 ... 33 ... 40  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by panki on Wed 2 Aug - 12:40

SanghaRen wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I wasn't sure where to post this, but for the past day or so, I've been thinking a lot about Kylo's lightsaber and Luke's apparent lack of one.

I don't have the source, but there is a rumor that Luke wears a shard of Kyber crystal around his neck. What if Kylo is actually using the crystal from Luke's lightsaber for his own, and the reason it's cracked/unstable is due to the missing piece, which Luke still has?

I've done some reading on Kylo's lightsaber before for fan fiction purposes and while an emphasis is usually made on its instability due to the damaged crystal, nothing is said about where he got it.

Now that it seems Luke will not be wielding a lightsaber in TLJ, at least from what we know so far, I'm thinking the reason for that could be staring us in the face: it's currently being used to power Kylo's crossguard saber.

I have also begun to think that the crystal will ultimately be healed, and it'll be symbolic of the healing of the Skywalker family.

Thoughts? Smile
@WhatGirl

That is one cool theory  Thumbs up . If we don't get something cool about cystals in TLJ, I'll be a bit disappointed because they show up everywhere even in non Force / Jedi stories like the Inferno Squad book - not in a crucial way but still nice. Sometimes I feel like Lucasfilm is holding a sign "Crystals!" in our faces. Well fans' faces because in terms of general marketing for the GA, crystals are not very present. Yes, they are in the lightsabers, but you know what I mean. Up until 1.5 years ago, I was a GA person and crystal stuff was flying way above my head. I didn't even know the Death Star was powered with crystals.
@SanghaRen

On the subject of crystals, I'm seriously wondering whether Mace Windu has some connection to the Dreamer's home base planet or the Kage warriors.... it could explain why his kyber turned amethyst colour.

_________________


We are the spark, that’ll light the fire, that’ll burn the First Order down.
avatar
panki
Moderator

Messages : 3004
Likes : 10992
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

http://starwarstheorist.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 2 Aug - 16:01

@panki

I thought that it was purple because Samuel L. Jackson wanted it to be purple. Although I guess they could use his color preference years later and build a story around it.

So will Finn, since he's his son, get a purple lightsaber? I am joking Very Happy
avatar
SanghaRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1428
Likes : 6828
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28
Localisation : French living in Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by panki on Wed 2 Aug - 16:36

SanghaRen wrote:@panki

I thought that it was purple because Samuel L. Jackson wanted it to be purple. Although I guess they could use his color preference years later and build a story around it.

So will Finn, since he's his son, get a purple lightsaber? I am joking Very Happy
@SanghaRen

You're right about the original reason for the purple lightsaber i.e. Samuel L. Jackson' choice... but there was an EU comic about him finding his lightsaber crystal on a planet with weird purple stone-like inhabitants and purple crystals, which reminds me a bit of what we see in Inferno Squad...so it would be interesting if they make that connection.

_________________


We are the spark, that’ll light the fire, that’ll burn the First Order down.
avatar
panki
Moderator

Messages : 3004
Likes : 10992
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

http://starwarstheorist.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 2 Aug - 17:51

A question is bugging me now and I can't believe I am going into such details now - hello fanboy territory. Can a lightsaber with another color as red flicker or does the unstable crystal automatically bleed because it's compromised?
avatar
SanghaRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1428
Likes : 6828
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28
Localisation : French living in Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by panki on Wed 2 Aug - 18:12

SanghaRen wrote:A question is bugging me now and I can't believe I am going into such details now - hello fanboy territory. Can a lightsaber with another color as red flicker or does the unstable crystal automatically bleed because it's compromised?
@SanghaRen

I think an unstable cracked crystal need not always be a crystal that was bled.....a kyber crystal can be unstable for many reasons....it might not be faceted properly by the user before lightsaber construction, it might get scratched when the lightsaber is being built or it might get damaged when the crystal is taken out of an existing lightsaber...these problems can arise even if a force user has bonded with the crystal.

_________________


We are the spark, that’ll light the fire, that’ll burn the First Order down.
avatar
panki
Moderator

Messages : 3004
Likes : 10992
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

http://starwarstheorist.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 2 Aug - 19:59

panki wrote:
SanghaRen wrote:A question is bugging me now and I can't believe I am going into such details now - hello fanboy territory. Can a lightsaber with another color as red flicker or does the unstable crystal automatically bleed because it's compromised?
@SanghaRen

I think an unstable cracked crystal need not always be a crystal that was bled.....a kyber crystal can be unstable for many reasons....it might not be faceted properly by the user before lightsaber construction, it might get scratched when the lightsaber is being built or it might get damaged when the crystal is taken out of an existing lightsaber...these problems can arise even if a force user has bonded with the crystal.
@panki

I see. Thanks. Now that you explained it, I remember some tweet exchange between PH and some fans and he was mentioning that bleeding happens when it's a forced bond or something. Just realized how creepy that sounds now  Neutral I guess I always have a more spiritual approach thinking that if the crystal is happy with its owner, it should not flicker even if scratched or not be properly installed. You know, the Force should somehow make it work properly anyhow. Crystals should be scratch-proof and just install themselves. Why is it so complicated even in SW Smile
avatar
SanghaRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1428
Likes : 6828
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28
Localisation : French living in Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by darthbutterfingers on Thu 3 Aug - 10:33

WhatGirl wrote:I wasn't sure where to post this, but for the past day or so, I've been thinking a lot about Kylo's lightsaber and Luke's apparent lack of one.

I don't have the source, but there is a rumor that Luke wears a shard of Kyber crystal around his neck. What if Kylo is actually using the crystal from Luke's lightsaber for his own, and the reason it's cracked/unstable is due to the missing piece, which Luke still has?

I've done some reading on Kylo's lightsaber before for fan fiction purposes and while an emphasis is usually made on its instability due to the damaged crystal, nothing is said about where he got it.

Now that it seems Luke will not be wielding a lightsaber in TLJ, at least from what we know so far, I'm thinking the reason for that could be staring us in the face: it's currently being used to power Kylo's crossguard saber.

I have also begun to think that the crystal will ultimately be healed, and it'll be symbolic of the healing of the Skywalker family.

Thoughts? Smile
@WhatGirl

I have been wondering when this would come up again. I posted a theory about this on this forum back on June 25. Basically it related to the new Darth Vader comic and the idea that Darth Vader was going to kill a Jedi to take the crystal from his lightsabre to use to make his own red one. I thought that this was maybe what Kylo Ren tried to do with the crystal in Luke's lightsabre but it didn't go quite so smoothly (i.e. the crystal is cracked and Luke is still alive). I'm not very good at linking things though so I don't seem to be able to get the page to come up. It's page 15 of this topic and title "The cracked crystal of Kylo Ren’s lightsabre and my cracked theory" if you want to read it.


Last edited by darthbutterfingers on Thu 3 Aug - 10:37; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : my link didn't work)

darthbutterfingers
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 13
Likes : 68
Date d'inscription : 2017-04-18

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by nemapasara on Sun 6 Aug - 2:22

I'm pretty fascinated with the symbolism of islands and it all points to good and transformative things happening on Ahch-To. Here are some quotes I found that I really liked and found interesting:

1) In Psychology and Alchemy, Carl Gustav Jung wrote that “only in the region of danger (watery abyss, cavern, forest, island, castle, etc.) can one find ‘the treasure hard to attain’ (jewel, virgin, life potion, victory over death).”

2) Jung’s quote shows his amazing intuitive grasp of island’s significance: it is both beautiful and dangerous.

3) Where there is death, there must be transformation. Whoever comes to an isolated island, does not leave it as the same person: islands are both safe havens and dangerous areas of upheaval; safe wombs and insular alchemical vessels of transformation.

4) Time flows differently on islands, because they are places torn out of the conventional time space continuum.

5) Islands are like precious jewels scattered on ocean waves, like treasure chests waiting for brave heroes to explore them. They provoke longing and wishful craving.

6) Northrop Frye, a literary critic, referred to islands as “points of epiphany.” On an island, away from their everyday circumstances, mythical and literary characters can become free of themselves in order to find themselves.

5) As the cover of the book suggests, the mystery of the island cannot be solved without a woman.

6) Time and again we find the island represented as the locus of a transformation, a translation.  On islands, things change or, as William Golding shows so dramatically in his Lord of the Flies, things rise to the surface and are made visible, often things that we wish we did not have to see.
avatar
nemapasara
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 433
Likes : 2982
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-15
Localisation : Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Mon 7 Aug - 17:41

@nemapasara - just noticed this and thanks for writing it up! It shouldn't be a crazy stretch to think that when he mentions the island she dreams about and how he sees it (too?), that it'll be transformative for the both of them. Especially when there's the side angle shot of Chewie curiously looking at Rey's face when she first sees Ache-to and her eyes widen. Or even @Darth Dementor's brilliant (as always) observation that Ache-to is literally Act Two of their story.

The island motif is interesting even if you look at it being like The Tempest. Or another classic of YA literature, The Wizard of Earthsea, which is a coming of age tale set in a world of islands. And like The Force Awakens could be seen as like Tehanu, where le Guin* retells the story to question the patriarchal social structure of Earthsea (which I'd argue is both the arcs for Rey and Leia w/the "it's a re-hash" type comments).

* also I can't resist this piece of glorious shade throwing from le Guin about comparisons between her book and Harry Potter
She didn't plagiarize. She didn’t copy anything. Her book, in fact, could hardly be more different from mine, in style, spirit, everything. The only thing that rankles me is her apparent reluctance to admit that she ever learned anything from other writers. When ignorant critics praised her wonderful originality in inventing the idea of a wizards’ school, and some of them even seemed to believe that she had invented fantasy, she let them do so. This, I think, was ungenerous, and in the long run unwise.

I’m happier with writers who, perhaps suffering less from the famous “anxiety of influence,” have enough sense of their own worth to appreciate their predecessors and fellow-workers in the saltmines of literature.
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5884
Likes : 25044
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth Dementor on Mon 7 Aug - 18:13

nemapasara wrote:I'm pretty fascinated with the symbolism of islands and it all points to good and transformative things happening on Ahch-To. Here are some quotes I found that I really liked and found interesting:

1) In Psychology and Alchemy, Carl Gustav Jung wrote that “only in the region of danger (watery abyss, cavern, forest, island, castle, etc.) can one find ‘the treasure hard to attain’ (jewel, virgin, life potion, victory over death).”

2) Jung’s quote shows his amazing intuitive grasp of island’s significance: it is both beautiful and dangerous.

3) Where there is death, there must be transformation. Whoever comes to an isolated island, does not leave it as the same person: islands are both safe havens and dangerous areas of upheaval; safe wombs and insular alchemical vessels of transformation.

4) Time flows differently on islands, because they are places torn out of the conventional time space continuum.

5) Islands are like precious jewels scattered on ocean waves, like treasure chests waiting for brave heroes to explore them. They provoke longing and wishful craving.

6) Northrop Frye, a literary critic, referred to islands as “points of epiphany.” On an island, away from their everyday circumstances, mythical and literary characters can become free of themselves in order to find themselves.

5) As the cover of the book suggests, the mystery of the island cannot be solved without a woman.

6) Time and again we find the island represented as the locus of a transformation, a translation.  On islands, things change or, as William Golding shows so dramatically in his Lord of the Flies, things rise to the surface and are made visible, often things that we wish we did not have to see.
@nemapasara

Wow this is great symbolism for the island! In the "Kylo Ren Will Embrace the Light" podcast it was also noted the island represents Ben's salvation and chance to turn back to the light.  In fact the only time he smiles and looks most at peace is when he saw it in Rey's mind.  The very first line of the movie, "this will begin to set things right," tells you what the entire trilogy is about; saving the last Skywalker's soul.

_________________
avatar
Darth Dementor
Moderator

Messages : 865
Likes : 3961
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 7 Aug - 19:09

snufkin wrote:@nemapasara - just noticed this and thanks for writing it up! It shouldn't be a crazy stretch to think that when he mentions the island she dreams about and how he sees it (too?), that it'll be transformative for the both of them. Especially when there's the side angle shot of Chewie curiously looking at Rey's face when she first sees Ache-to and her eyes widen. Or even @Darth Dementor's brilliant (as always) observation that Ache-to is literally Act Two of their story.

The island motif is interesting even if you look at it being like The Tempest. Or another classic of YA literature, The Wizard of Earthsea, which is a coming of age tale set in a world of islands. And like The Force Awakens could be seen as like Tehanu, where le Guin* retells the story to question the patriarchal social structure of Earthsea (which I'd argue is both the arcs for Rey and Leia w/the "it's a re-hash" type comments).

* also I can't resist this piece of glorious shade throwing from le Guin about comparisons between her book and Harry Potter
She didn't plagiarize. She didn’t copy anything. Her book, in fact, could hardly be more different from mine, in style, spirit, everything. The only thing that rankles me is her apparent reluctance to admit that she ever learned anything from other writers. When ignorant critics praised her wonderful originality in inventing the idea of a wizards’ school, and some of them even seemed to believe that she had invented fantasy, she let them do so. This, I think, was ungenerous, and in the long run unwise.

I’m happier with writers who, perhaps suffering less from the famous “anxiety of influence,” have enough sense of their own worth to appreciate their predecessors and fellow-workers in the saltmines of literature.
@snufkin

Yes, @nemapasara, your island write-up is outstanding.  I really need to save it. Thank for writing it. Very Happy

Also, I have never read le Guin, but I know that during the TFA time that Lawrence Kasdan mentioned being influenced by Earthsea in an interview.
avatar
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3480
Likes : 15612
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Mon 7 Aug - 19:12

SoloSideCousin wrote:Also, I have never read le Guin, but I know that during the TFA time that Lawrence Kasdan mentioned being influenced by Earthsea in an interview.

She's originally from Berkley, so maybe I heard more about her growing up thanks to where I'm from. I did read The Lathe of Heaven as part of my moving on into sci-fi away from Star Wars phase of adolescence. No idea that it was actually inspired by her friendship with Phillip K. D*ck (who was based in Marin)! And I *knew* that I'd heard somewhere Kasdan mentioned Earthsea as an influence!
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5884
Likes : 25044
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by nemapasara on Mon 7 Aug - 19:45

@Darth Dementor @snufkin @SoloSideCousin

Thanks guys! I didn't write it up, I just collected them from articles I found on the internet but I did write this little blub on my tumblr about my thoughts on the island symbolism, I'll copy paste it here:

I was just thinking about the symbolism of Ahch-To being an island. They’re self-contained pieces of land that are used as literary devices for a character’s development. Being forced to stray from your everyday life to re-evaluate yourself. It’s about self-discovery and people who go to islands leave different people. It’s not a coincidence that Luke, a person most likely wracked with guilt, put himself into exile on an island. It’s not a coincidence that Rey, who has to come to terms with who she is and what her purpose is, dreams of the island and ends up going there. It’s not a coincidence that Kylo, who is lost and torn apart will end up on that island and if he does crash his ship, he effectively becomes the sailor who shipwrecks himself. It means that all three of these characters are leaving this island changed people.

Another point about water is that it is a symbol of rebirth. Water is a recurring natural element in Rey and Kylo’s dynamic. In the force vision, Rey first sees Kylo in the rain. When Kylo goes into her mind, he sees the island. And the fact that it might be raining when Kylo arrives on the island is important. Weather is an effective tool in film making to set a mood. Rain, a lot of the times, is used to foreshadow conflict. But rain is also cleansing, it brings life to dying things. I believe on the surface, they use rain as a way to heighten drama and conflict. But when you dig deeper, it’s about the positive attributes.

Think of it this way. Jakku, a dry, barren land, is used as the setting of Rey’s abandonment. Ahch-To is the opposite of Jakku in possibly every single way.
avatar
nemapasara
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 433
Likes : 2982
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-15
Localisation : Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Mon 7 Aug - 20:06

@nemapasara - the thing about the island is that long before the airport paparazzi photos came out, our group had been discussing (counter to everything most fans were saying would happen) how those three characters had to end up together on the island given the various themes hinted at. Which like you say, self contained location for self-inquiry and transformation, plus the water symbolism. And in the case of playing on major thematic tropes, I thought this (Super Old School, like PT era web design) curriculum from the Smithsonian about ESB was interesting


Unit 7 The Dark Road of Trials
Unit 8 Into the Belly of the Beast
Unit 9 The Sacred Grove
Unit 10 Sacrifices
Unit 11 The Path to Atonement

Like Ache-to might be both Into the Belly of the Beast and The Sacred Grove. Also from Sacrifice, this is an interesting detail if you consider Han's sacrifice in that movie and TFA were written by the same person (and in the latter, written with his son)

The opening of the mind and heart to spiritual knowledge requires a sacrifice from the hero. At this difficult and dangerous place on the hero path, Han and Luke both reaffirm the meaning and importance of their lives by their willingness to sacrifice themselves.
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5884
Likes : 25044
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Mon 7 Aug - 20:16

Here's another interesting detail from the same curriculum, about removing of masks. Both why Ben wears it for his Kylo Ren persona and why it's significant (despite fans complaining its a mistake) that he drops his mask for Rey. He then drops it for his father, but it's critical that she's the person he drops the persona for, especially after being taunted by LST and Poe in the opening. Rey is the person who can get him to open up and drop the persona he hides behind

At the climax of the Star Wars trilogy, Vader asks Luke to unmask him. Masks are frequently part of mythic ritual. They can strike fear into the hearts of enemies, summon ancestors, or invoke supernatural beings.

Vader's mask is part of his demonic persona. The dropping of the mask represents Vader's release from the imprisonment of his role, a release that comes for him only at the moment of death. Yet this gesture is also an affirmation of life, the final opening up of father to son.

Also in terms of the significance of places in story, this turned up about ESB and Bespin as the place where truths are told and sacrifices are made:

In character-based terms, there is a also kind of re-birth of the Han/Leia relationship following their kiss. Their love has emerged from the icy, “frozen” quality it boasted on Hoth, and even the chaotic/combative nature of it as witnessed in the asteroid belt. Their time in the belly of the beast is, after a fashion, what allowed them to find some clarity about their feelings and relationship.

Finally, the last passage of the film set on Bespin offers The Empire Strikes Back’s final, and perhaps most powerful symbol: clouds.

In terms of symbolic representations, clouds are often equated to a realm of “ethereal heights” but also a domain of “higher truth.”

Here, Leia and Han admit their love for one another; a higher truth they avoided and quarreled over on icy Hoth.

Similarly, Luke discovers the higher truth about Ben’s story (regarding the death of his father,) as well as Vader’s role in his life. The self-knowledge hinted at in the Dark Tree on Dagobah become clear in the ethereal clouds, a place, explicitly, for truth telling.

Indeed, truth becomes the paramount issue of this final section of The Empire Strikes Back.

Is Vader telling the truth about his parentage of Luke? Is Lando a truth-teller or treacherous? Is R2-D2 sharing the truth (but not believed) when he notes that the hyper-drive on the Millennium Falcon hasn't been repaired? Even the discovery of the "truth" about Leia (that she possesses Jedi-ish abilities) comes about in the location of Cloud City.

I very much appreciate how The Empire Strikes Back's visuals -- ice, trees, the belly of the beast, and clouds -- all reflect in an important manner the psychology of the film’s three primary protagonists. The symbols, essentially, track their progress from stagnation and frigidity to a higher understanding of the truth.

From Hoth to Bespin isn't just a journey between star systems, in other words, but one of self-discovery and character evolution.


avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5884
Likes : 25044
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Helix on Mon 7 Aug - 20:20

Everything is fine and dandy until Rey starts talking to the Ahch-To coconuts. That's when you know she's gone.

I don't blame her, being shunned by a kooky old man and his possessed penguffins will do that to you.

Interesting that we see Rey/Luke/Kylo's stories intersect there. It's the Force Focal Point.
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2603
Likes : 10176
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by nemapasara on Mon 7 Aug - 20:24

snufkin wrote:@nemapasara - the thing about the island is that long before the airport paparazzi photos came out, our group had been discussing (counter to everything most fans were saying would happen) how those three characters had to end up together on the island given the various themes hinted at. Which like you say, self contained location for self-inquiry and transformation, plus the water symbolism. And in the case of playing on major thematic tropes, I thought this (Super Old School, like PT era web design) curriculum from the Smithsonian about ESB was interesting


Unit 7 The Dark Road of Trials
Unit 8 Into the Belly of the Beast
Unit 9 The Sacred Grove
Unit 10 Sacrifices
Unit 11 The Path to Atonement

Like Ache-to might be both Into the Belly of the Beast and The Sacred Grove. Also from Sacrifice, this is an interesting detail if you consider Han's sacrifice in that movie and TFA were written by the same person (and in the latter, written with his son)

The opening of the mind and heart to spiritual knowledge requires a sacrifice from the hero. At this difficult and dangerous place on the hero path, Han and Luke both reaffirm the meaning and importance of their lives by their willingness to sacrifice themselves.
@snufkin

Sorry, it took me a while to really find my way into the fandom where I felt comfortable enough to really discuss about it so I'm late on discussing a lot of stuff (but it really is so fascinating). I know the island stuff has been brought up before, I was just really thinking about the possibility of Kylo crashing his ship and how utterly appropriate that is. I mean, you could really consider him the sailor who finds himself shipwrecked on the island where the cohabitants might not be so friendly. A situation where he's kind of forced to be stuck on that island. And for him to be able to leave, he'll need to go through some growth, enough so that if he's leaving the island on the Millennium Falcon you'll feel the emotional depth to the moment conveyed through Kylo's turmoil.

It'll be interesting to see which archetypes fit into Rey's journey. The Sacred Grove is definitely representative of the Ahch-To plot. "The "sacred grove" is another mythic motif; it represents an enclosure where the hero is changed. Ancient peoples widely believed the tree to be infused with creative energy. Forests came to symbolize mystery and transformation, and they were home to sorcerers and enchanters."
avatar
nemapasara
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 433
Likes : 2982
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-15
Localisation : Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by MrsWindu on Mon 7 Aug - 20:49

nemapasara wrote:@Darth Dementor @snufkin @SoloSideCousin

Thanks guys! I didn't write it up, I just collected them from articles I found on the internet but I did write this little blub on my tumblr about my thoughts on the island symbolism, I'll copy paste it here:

I was just thinking about the symbolism of Ahch-To being an island. They’re self-contained pieces of land that are used as literary devices for a character’s development. Being forced to stray from your everyday life to re-evaluate yourself. It’s about self-discovery and people who go to islands leave different people. It’s not a coincidence that Luke, a person most likely wracked with guilt, put himself into exile on an island. It’s not a coincidence that Rey, who has to come to terms with who she is and what her purpose is, dreams of the island and ends up going there. It’s not a coincidence that Kylo, who is lost and torn apart will end up on that island and if he does crash his ship, he effectively becomes the sailor who shipwrecks himself. It means that all three of these characters are leaving this island changed people.

Another point about water is that it is a symbol of rebirth. Water is a recurring natural element in Rey and Kylo’s dynamic. In the force vision, Rey first sees Kylo in the rain. When Kylo goes into her mind, he sees the island. And the fact that it might be raining when Kylo arrives on the island is important. Weather is an effective tool in film making to set a mood. Rain, a lot of the times, is used to foreshadow conflict. But rain is also cleansing, it brings life to dying things. I believe on the surface, they use rain as a way to heighten drama and conflict. But when you dig deeper, it’s about the positive attributes.

Think of it this way. Jakku, a dry, barren land, is used as the setting of Rey’s abandonment. Ahch-To is the opposite of Jakku in possibly every single way.
@nemapasara

I just love what you wrote and agree its outstanding! ( one of the reason's I lurked for so long is because I'm not great with words) However its why I was drawn to this forum in the first place - I never found anywhere where folks could openly discuss the symbolism of water or rain or unmasking on so many levels. I feel like it's a privilege to see such great writing in the context of SW that I understand.

I'm reminded of the poster for The Shawshank Redemption and rain sequence towards the end of the film when Andy crawls out of the prison in a river of **** and came out clean on the other side (as Moragn Freeman's characters tells it) and how transformative water/ rain can be.
avatar
MrsWindu
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 96
Likes : 501
Date d'inscription : 2017-08-03
Localisation : U.K.

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Mon 7 Aug - 21:12

@nemapasara - my apologies, I meant in my post the majority of online fan discussions outside of this place. Not your awesome posts. Like the infamous Reddit spoiler about how it would be just like ESB where Kylo kidnaps Finn and Poe on the casino planet as bait to lure Rey to the DS. Meanwhile most of us here were like "that makes no sense given the foreshadowing about the island, their interactions, and how he's portrayed. He's following her to Ache-to, where something will transform these two characters and their relationship." Which when the photos came out (and interesting how no official materials are showing him there), there was a lot of high fives exchanged here for guessing right when a lot of fans said it wouldn't happen.

avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5884
Likes : 25044
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by MrsWindu on Mon 7 Aug - 21:48

As as I'm very late to this can I ask how did those on the forum feel when those pics of Daisy, Mark and Adam arriving in Belfast came through? I wasn't very keen on the other SW forums and and although I'm not always the sharpest pencil in the box I couldn't see how what they kept saying over and over made much sense to move the Skywalker story forward in this trilogy.
avatar
MrsWindu
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 96
Likes : 501
Date d'inscription : 2017-08-03
Localisation : U.K.

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 7 Aug - 21:50

MrsWindu wrote:As as I'm very late to this can I ask how did those on the forum feel when those pics of Daisy, Mark and Adam arriving in Belfast came through? I wasn't very keen on the other SW forums and and although I'm not always the sharpest pencil in the box I couldn't see how what they kept saying over and over made much sense to move the Skywalker story forward in this trilogy.
@MrsWindu

The put it bluntly, we had a huge celebration on the forum the day that those paparazzi pics were posted.

For me, that was my "OMG, this really could happen" moment, instead of just thinking that it would be the more interesting story direction if LF had the guts...

_________________
Hoping Rey is "riding solo" for the ST...
avatar
ISeeAnIsland
Moderator

Messages : 4624
Likes : 23973
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25
Localisation : Seattle, WA

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by nemapasara on Mon 7 Aug - 22:04

MrsWindu wrote:
@nemapasara

I just love what you wrote and agree its outstanding! ( one of the reason's I lurked for so long is because I'm not great with words) However its why I was drawn to this forum in the first place - I never found anywhere where folks could openly discuss the symbolism of water or rain or unmasking on so many levels. I feel like it's a privilege to see such great writing in the context of SW that I understand.

I'm reminded of the poster for The Shawshank Redemption and rain sequence towards the end of the film when Andy crawls out of the prison in a river of **** and came out clean on the other side (as Moragn Freeman's characters tells it) and how transformative water/ rain can be.
@MrsWindu

Yes, it was so intimidating at the beginning because I read all these amazing metas and I find it hard to put my thoughts into words. And YES, I love that movie and the rain at the end was just so good. Usually you see movies using rain as foreboding, that something bad is about to happen. But rain really is the water of life, it's meant to be cleansing, and it worked perfectly in that movie.

snufkin wrote:@nemapasara - my apologies, I meant in my post the majority of online fan discussions outside of this place. Not your awesome posts. Like the infamous Reddit spoiler about how it would be just like ESB where Kylo kidnaps Finn and Poe on the casino planet as bait to lure Rey to the DS. Meanwhile most of us here were like "that makes no sense given the foreshadowing about the island, their interactions, and how he's portrayed. He's following her to Ache-to, where something will transform these two characters and their relationship." Which when the photos came out (and interesting how no official materials are showing him there), there was a lot of high fives exchanged here for guessing right when a lot of fans said it wouldn't happen.


@snufkin No need to apologize. It's amazing how much we've been validated by the official sources that we're on the right track. One of the most amazing days in the fandom was when J.J.'s DVD commentary was released and we got the quotes and cinderella and princes. It was like YES, we've had people saying that for a while and it felt nice to see that. Especially when we get people who scoff at our readings.
avatar
nemapasara
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 433
Likes : 2982
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-15
Localisation : Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Mon 7 Aug - 23:08

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
MrsWindu wrote:As as I'm very late to this can I ask how did those on the forum feel when those pics of Daisy, Mark and Adam arriving in Belfast came through? I wasn't very keen on the other SW forums and and although I'm not always the sharpest pencil in the box I couldn't see how what they kept saying over and over made much sense to move the Skywalker story forward in this trilogy.
@MrsWindu

The put it bluntly, we had a huge celebration on the forum the day that those paparazzi pics were posted.

For me, that was my "OMG, this really could happen" moment, instead of just thinking that it would be the more interesting story direction if LF had the guts...
@ISeeAnIsland

Same here. Like complete giddy shock that the suspicion I'd been harboring and then thought "nahhh, they won't do that" might actually have a chance.

@MrsWindu, from the Archives

When the paparazzi airport photos dropped (scroll down to @Kessel's comment on that page)

Rumored potential canoodling photo
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5884
Likes : 25044
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Saracene on Mon 7 Aug - 23:22

MrsWindu wrote:As as I'm very late to this can I ask how did those on the forum feel when those pics of Daisy, Mark and Adam arriving in Belfast came through? I wasn't very keen on the other SW forums and and although I'm not always the sharpest pencil in the box I couldn't see how what they kept saying over and over made much sense to move the Skywalker story forward in this trilogy.
@MrsWindu

I always thought it was given that, Reylo or no Reylo, Kylo would eventually track down the island he was so badly after in TFA. So I wasn't surprised when those pics came through.
avatar
Saracene
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1472
Likes : 8435
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27
Age : 37
Localisation : Melbourne

http://yggdrasille.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Helix on Tue 8 Aug - 1:16



Blessed with perfect Porgs.
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2603
Likes : 10176
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Page 26 of 40 Previous  1 ... 14 ... 25, 26, 27 ... 33 ... 40  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum