The Last Jedi: General Discussion

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 6 Sep - 14:47

snufkin wrote:
EchoBase wrote:
Blackcanary wrote:This Rian interview is glorious: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson.html


Sample quote:
Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist. It’s not like Kylo is our Vader. In the original trilogy, Vader is the father — he’s the one you’re afraid of and who you want the approval of. Whereas Kylo represents anger and rebellion, the sometimes healthy — and sometimes not — desire to disconnect from the parents. It’s my favorite kind of quote-unquote bad guy, because you can genuinely see what their weakness is.

It may start up another round of plotgate though: Rian reiterates the lack of overall story and being given complete free rein.
@Blackcanary

I feel, there is a storm brewing. Very Happy
@EchoBase

Rey's sullen nemesis, interesting choice of words! Also gold, Rey's origins are beside the point. This is like his exposition about time travel in Looper (not important in itself ) is going to drive some people crazy. Also calling Kylo the bad guy in air quotes. They really went with a good choice because he cares more about the impact Rey's abandonment as a child is having on her as an adult and how that parallels whatever happened to make Ben rebel and fall to the DS.

@snufkin
TBH that to me is far more important than who Rey's parents are - as long as she isn't related to Kylo I couldn't care less. Although I love Finn and Oscar, for me the most memorable thing about TFA was the dynamic between Rey and Kylo. As an OT fan who loved the OC I expected to want more of them - but instead I wanted more Rey/Kylo.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Wed 6 Sep - 14:52

@skystar - yes, so evil he looks like the Darkside Jordan Catalano (aka @Lily Snape's "Darth Boyfriend quip) thanks to that article. Should we put together a Go Fund Me to buy Rian Johnson a round of drinks after the latest round of social media shrieking this is going to provoke?
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Wed 6 Sep - 15:04

@motherofpearl1 - a lot of film nerds and professional fanboys HATE Johnson already because he refused to get pedantic about the time travel technology in Looper and even has Bruce Willis deliver a line meant for the audience about how they're not going to get into it. Because the larger point is telling the story about these people and the choices they make thanks to the situation.,Which excites me because it means we aren't in for the grand reveal about Reywalker as a central plot point, we're in for the story of how she finally has to face what happened to her as a child and get past it. More complicated character instead of just "Yay Rey meets her dad! Girl power!" And the 2 sides, we're getting Space Bwar. Which was the best part of TFA, especially because their Ransom of Red Chief dynamic is so ridiculously entertaining. The friendships between her and Finn's friendship with Poe are also wonderful. But I wasn't nearly as giddy wondering what was going to happen in those friendships, which are solid, as WTF will happen between her and Kylo. Those two together take the franchise to a completely different level.

I mean, come on "her sullen nemesis"?! That's how many lead male characters role in how many classic novels or Golden Age of Hollywood films?


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 6 Sep - 15:18

That’s something that we’re definitely going to dig into. The heart of the movie is Luke and Rey. It follows all the other characters, but its real essence is the development of the two of them.

But Kylo is half of the protagonist, so it's really the Rey, Luke, and Kylo show, as suggested by the teaser poster Very Happy
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 15:30

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
That’s something that we’re definitely going to dig into. The heart of the movie is Luke and Rey. It follows all the other characters, but its real essence is the development of the two of them.

But Kylo is half of the protagonist, so it's really the Rey, Luke, and Kylo show, as suggested by the teaser poster Very Happy
@Cowgirlsamurai

It actually makes sense. They are two halves that cnanot become whole before the last movie. They'll go in that direction in TLJ but IX is going to be "two halves make whole" movie. So TLJ has to have something else as its heart, especially since Luke connects Rey and Kylo. he doesn't connect Rey with other characters. Also:

We hear a voice in the teaser trailer say, “It’s time for the Jedi to end.” Is that Luke speaking?

That’s him. It sounds pretty dire. That’s something that we’re definitely going to dig into. The heart of the movie is Luke and Rey. It follows all the other characters, but its real essence is the development of the two of them. And it’s absolutely tied up in that question of, What is Luke’s attitude toward the Jedi?

That neither sounds like My baby Girl nor it excludes Kylo. Quite the contrary, his place in the future of the Jedi is pivotal.


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 6 Sep - 15:35

What I want to see in TLJ:

Kylo dealing with the repercussions of killing his father



Rey dealing with the after effects of succumbing to the Dark Side - because let's face it, that's exactly what she did
Finn dealing with the repercussions of turning against the FO

Luke and Leia revealing their flaws as people
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 6 Sep - 15:36

ME, READING RJ'S INTERVIEWS AND TWEETS:





SEE YA IN HELL, YO FILTHY REYLOS
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by ZioRen on Wed 6 Sep - 15:51

Guys I am so freaking JAZZED over that interview! This is literally the best, most informative, and most vindicating interview thus far regarding everything! He's completely validating everything we've theorized/hoped for about Kylo Ren and the """"importance""" of Rey's origin.

I'm on cloud nine right now, especially with what he's saying about Kylo! What a great start to the day!
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Mana on Wed 6 Sep - 16:29

IoJovi wrote:Plotgate is nothing more than a gimmick designed to strengthen the mystery box, and to give the illusion that 'anything can happen.'  I love Rian. I really do, and I'm excited as all get out at what we can bring to the table.  I love his comments about Kylo, and anyone would be a fool to see redemption is not a given at this point.  Still, he's lying through his teeth that he has complete free reign.

I had the luxury of attending DragonCon this weekend.  My favorite panels were the ones with the new canon authors, including Claudia Grey, Timothy Zahn, EK Johnson and Delilah Dawson.  These authors kept saying no one talks about the Story Group, as a joke, and that's really what LF wants to convey.  From LF's perspective towards the audience, knowing that the SG is working behind the scenes is kind of like seeing the little man behind the curtain, taking away the magic.  It's silly, I know, but I think that's what they're going for.  At least for me, knowing the SG is in place gives me comfort that we won't get so many freaking plot holes this time around, and much less contradiction.  I'm not dumb enough to think these stories magically create themselves on their own, which is what LF seems to want to portray with Plotgate.  

Keeping on this same topic, I attended a panel about Disney's purchase of LF and what it means for the franchise.  The majority of the topic centered around Star Wars land: Galaxy's Edge at both Disney theme parks in the US.  I'll tell you as a Disney park fan already, I'm excited as hell about this.  If you stay at the SW themed hotel, you get a completely immersive experience as if you yourself are in the GFFA.  I can't write up all of the details without being too long winded, but know that they do not want you seeing or remembering a hint of the outside world while you're there.  You are no longer yourself but instead an assigned character when you check in.  There are no signs for the rides or even wait times.  You have to look for the rides yourself, which will not exactly be obvious where they're located.  It sounds utterly fabulous!!!

I think the same rules apply to the Plotgate debacle. They're trying to keep that magic going without spoiling the fact that this is still a business with employees in the real world that keep everything moving.  I don't exactly agree with this method as all it did was shake everyone's faith in the writing, even those outside our group.  Still, the picture is becoming a bit clearer and all I can do is accept it is what it is.
@IoJovi

Lucasfilm have a 'vision' for this trilogy. JJ had to follow it, Rian is following it (however vehemently he may deny it) and Colin Trevorow just got fired for not wanting to follow it.

No way in hell have they not planned and mapped out the endgame, even if what happens in between is up to the individual directors.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 16:35

ZioRen wrote:Guys I am so freaking JAZZED over that interview! This is literally the best, most informative, and most vindicating interview thus far regarding everything! He's completely validating everything we've theorized/hoped for about Kylo Ren and the """"importance""" of Rey's origin.

I'm on cloud nine right now, especially with what he's saying about Kylo! What a great start to the day!
@ZioRen

cheers cheers cheers

The part about validating what were were theorizing - that's your "creative freedom" right there. He understood TFA and took it from there so why wouldn't he have a relatively free reign when he understands where the story is going? OTOH, if you don't than highway, I guess.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by soulluos on Wed 6 Sep - 16:39

*REDACTED*

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by spacebaby45678 on Wed 6 Sep - 16:50

soulluos wrote:This sums up Rian's treatment of female characters pretty well. You should all be worried actually.

Rian Johnson's career up to pre-TLJ really doesn't care for women. Zero female leads. Breaking Bad that he also worked on briefly is a male power fantasy.

Brick - psycho girlfriend
Brothers Bloom - 'manic pix dream girl'-friend & nearly mute woman (Bang Bang)
Looper - mom to psycho child



People should have been keeping a closer eye on him than 'Home Base' Trevorrow. It's less obvious but the problems have always been there with Johnson. This is why you have to hope the studio controls him more than he'll admit.



If Rian has free control, I will guarantee you that Rey get's shafted.
@soulluos

I am feeling this a tad bit, Reylo are co protaganists, I always thought that from first viewing, in fact I felt that Kylo was the more important character because of Han and Leia's concern for their son and knowing that Kylo was the Skywalker immediatly made him important to the overall saga. Yet that was all JJ's doing and had nothing to do with RJ.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 16:53

soulluos wrote:*REDACTED*
@soulluos

I'm not getting that from Rian at all. I know that there's a headhunt on other forum where Rian's CV about female characters wouldn't have been questioned if he'd said that Rey and Finn were two halves of the protagonist (like Rey and Kylo) or the heart of TLJ (like rey and Luke). I know you are not one of them but there's a significant double standard going on in some circles so I'm calling them out.  Very Happy
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by LadyHa on Wed 6 Sep - 16:57

soulluos wrote:*REDACTED*
@soulluos

Looper also features an Asian woman who barely talks.

Home Base is so crass that it's hard to take Trevorrow seriously, even though I want to be forgiving of what appears to be a student film.  I think that although Johnson's films don't feature women as leads, the films themselves are nonetheless complex. I just watched Looper and found it quite riveting, even though I can't usually make it through gun-laden action films.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Mana on Wed 6 Sep - 17:02

vaderito wrote:
soulluos wrote:*REDACTED*
@soulluos

I'm not getting that from Rian at all. I know that there's a headhunt on other forum where Rian's CV about female characters wouldn't have been questioned if he'd said that Rey and Finn were two halves of the protagonist (like Rey and Kylo) or the heart of TLJ (like rey and Luke). I know you are not one of them but there's a significant double standard going on in some circles so I'm calling them out.  Very Happy
@vaderito

Funny how these 'concerns' are popping up now. Its been more than a year since filming wrapped on TLJ and even longer since Rian was announced to be the director of TLJ. At least with Trevorrow people had every right to be concerned and they were from the get go.

Kathy Kennedy and Bob Iger seem pleased with what Rian has done with TLJ. Don't see the need to be worried.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by soulluos on Wed 6 Sep - 17:05

Mana wrote:
vaderito wrote:
soulluos wrote:*REDACTED*
@soulluos

I'm not getting that from Rian at all. I know that there's a headhunt on other forum where Rian's CV about female characters wouldn't have been questioned if he'd said that Rey and Finn were two halves of the protagonist (like Rey and Kylo) or the heart of TLJ (like rey and Luke). I know you are not one of them but there's a significant double standard going on in some circles so I'm calling them out.  Very Happy
@vaderito

Funny how these 'concerns' are popping up now. Its been more than a year since filming wrapped on TLJ and even longer since Rian was announced to be the director of TLJ. At least with Trevorrow people had every right to be concerned and they were from the get go.

Kathy Kennedy and Bob Iger seem pleased with what Rian has done with TLJ. Don't see the need to be worried.
@Mana

That poster expressed his/her worry the moment Rian got hired.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Mana on Wed 6 Sep - 17:10

soulluos wrote:
Mana wrote:
vaderito wrote:
soulluos wrote:*REDACTED*
@soulluos

I'm not getting that from Rian at all. I know that there's a headhunt on other forum where Rian's CV about female characters wouldn't have been questioned if he'd said that Rey and Finn were two halves of the protagonist (like Rey and Kylo) or the heart of TLJ (like rey and Luke). I know you are not one of them but there's a significant double standard going on in some circles so I'm calling them out.  Very Happy
@vaderito

Funny how these 'concerns' are popping up now. Its been more than a year since filming wrapped on TLJ and even longer since Rian was announced to be the director of TLJ. At least with Trevorrow people had every right to be concerned and they were from the get go.

Kathy Kennedy and Bob Iger seem pleased with what Rian has done with TLJ. Don't see the need to be worried.
@Mana

That poster expressed his/her worry the moment Rian got hired.
@soulluos

Um ok ......so what are you trying to argue by posting someone elses viewpoint here?
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 17:14

@soulluos The poster also believes in Soloist (Anastasia crap) so he definitely does not inspire respect around here. I'm sorry that I don't find his worry of Rian credible in any way cause I haven't seen any reason why I should. He went as far as citing Rian's younger sister as a proof that Rey is a Solo. That's some next level of reaching.

It's OK to post other people's thoughts for discussion sake, though, but if they are not credible they'll be called out like Zeroh, MoviePilot, Helmet Faker, etc.

@Mana Concerns always pop up when Rey and Kylo are mentioned in the same sentence or packaged in the same toy box or whatever. Nobody blinks an eye at Rey sharing the heart of the story with Luke but it's a definite slight on her status as a main protagonist if she and Kylo are two halves of the whole. Rolling Eyes In the meantime, people who always raise those concerns have been known for plotting how Finn should hijack the story from Rey and be revealed as the true hero. Like I said in another post, uproar over Relatable Kylo had nothing to do with Kylo but with sinking headcanons, theories and ships.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by soulluos on Wed 6 Sep - 17:21

vaderito wrote:@soulluos The poster also believes in Soloist (Anastasia crap) so he definitely does not inspire respect around here. I'm sorry that I don't find his worry of Rian credible in any way cause I haven't seen any reason why I should. He went as far as citing Rian's younger sister as a proof that Rey is a Solo. That's some next level of reaching.

It's OK to post other people's thoughts for discussion sake, though, but if they are not credible they'll be called out like Zeroh, MoviePilot, Helmet Faker, etc.

@Mana Concerns always pop up when Rey and Kylo are mentioned in the same sentence or packaged in the same toy box or whatever. Nobody blinks an eye at Rey sharing the heart of the story with Luke but it's a definite slight on her status as a main protagonist if she and Kylo are two halves of the whole. Rolling Eyes In the meantime, people who always raise those concerns have been known for plotting how Finn should hijack the story from Rey and be revealed as the true hero. Like I said in another post, uproar over Relatable Kylo had nothing to do with Kylo but with sinking headcanons, theories and ships.
@vaderito

Vanity Fair, EW, Empire and the recent NY interview, does Rian directly talk about Rey? Never. And if he does, he changes the subject to Luke or Kylo. This is supposed to be Rey's story, why not talk about her a little bit? Rian just doesn't give me any confidence that he can do Rey's character justice. At this stage, Colin has talked more about Rey than Rian does.


Last edited by soulluos on Wed 6 Sep - 17:25; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by IoJovi on Wed 6 Sep - 17:25

I want to place a gentle reminder that copying and pasting posts from other boards from members who are not a part of this forum is prohibited.  

Discussion of other members not a part of this forum is prohibited as well.

Thanks for understanding.  


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"Kylo and Rey are two halves of the dark and the light.” - Rian Johnson
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 6 Sep - 17:26

Mana wrote:
vaderito wrote:
soulluos wrote:REDACTED

If Rian has free control, I will guarantee you that Rey get's shafted.
@soulluos

I'm not getting that from Rian at all. I know that there's a headhunt on other forum where Rian's CV about female characters wouldn't have been questioned if he'd said that Rey and Finn were two halves of the protagonist (like Rey and Kylo) or the heart of TLJ (like rey and Luke). I know you are not one of them but there's a significant double standard going on in some circles so I'm calling them out.  Very Happy
@vaderito

Funny how these 'concerns' are popping up now. Its been more than a year since filming wrapped on TLJ and even longer since Rian was announced to be the director of TLJ. At least with Trevorrow people had every right to be concerned and they were from the get go.

Kathy Kennedy and Bob Iger seem pleased with what Rian has done with TLJ. Don't see the need to be worried.
@Mana

Not to mention that nobody (I don't mean nobody here, but "elsewhere") seemed especially interested in discussing Rian's repeated emphasis on Robert Bly last spring. I said back then that Bly's focus on the male psyche and male wounds is a bit of a concern, and fans had better hope Rey gets her fair share of "respecting the shadow" and coming to terms with it. Otherwise she's effectively sidelined, as other characters get the interesting psychodrama.

Instead, said fans have been keen on keeping Rey as far away from all shadow and darkness as possible. Heaven forbid should even her pinky finger touch a shadow of any kind.

I'm not concerned at this stage. If Rey becomes an on-looker in her own story, then I'll complain. But these people who are panicking now are completely oblivious to the classic heroine's journey, so no wonder they're panicking like mad.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by SkyStar on Wed 6 Sep - 17:26

Riangate?
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 6 Sep - 17:29

soulluos wrote:
vaderito wrote:@soulluos The poster also believes in Soloist (Anastasia crap) so he definitely does not inspire respect around here. I'm sorry that I don't find his worry of Rian credible in any way cause I haven't seen any reason why I should. He went as far as citing Rian's younger sister as a proof that Rey is a Solo. That's some next level of reaching.

It's OK to post other people's thoughts for discussion sake, though, but if they are not credible they'll be called out like Zeroh, MoviePilot, Helmet Faker, etc.

@Mana Concerns always pop up when Rey and Kylo are mentioned in the same sentence or packaged in the same toy box or whatever. Nobody blinks an eye at Rey sharing the heart of the story with Luke but it's a definite slight on her status as a main protagonist if she and Kylo are two halves of the whole. Rolling Eyes In the meantime, people who always raise those concerns have been known for plotting how Finn should hijack the story from Rey and be revealed as the true hero. Like I said in another post, uproar over Relatable Kylo had nothing to do with Kylo but with sinking headcanons, theories and ships.
@vaderito

Vanity Fair, EW, Empire and the recent NY interview, does Rian directly talk about Rey? Never. And if he does, he changes the subject to Luke or Kylo. This is supposed to be Rey's story, why not talk about her a little bit? Rian just doesn't give me any confidence that he can do Rey's character justice. At this stage, Colin has talked more about Rey than Rian does.
@soulluos

You will find that on this forum we've talked quite a bit about Rey coming across as a prop to Luke's drama in these articles. Marketing has managed to make Rey sound like Luke's fixer, and Rose like Finn's fixer, though this wasn't at all the impression we got of Rose at SWC. Before Empire Kylo was hardly even mentioned, so that wasn't much of a concern.

Even Daisy talks more about Luke than Rey. Don't you think this might just be because anything else to talk about would be too big a spoiler?
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 17:30

soulluos wrote:  

Vanity Fair, EW, Empire and the recent NY interview, does Rian directly talk about Rey? Never. And if he does, he changes the subject to Luke or Kylo. This is supposed to be Rey's story, why not talk about her a little bit?
@soulluos

But he talks about Rey,  it's just that he talks about Rey in the same sentences with Kylo or Luke. But he actually talked about Rey as much as he talked about Kylo. So did Daisy. Didn't she say that Rey cannot understand how could Kylo kill his father? That's no different from Finn being talked about in the same sentence with Rose and vice versa. No slight on Rey whatsoever, it's just that some people turn a blind eye when she's connected with Luke but raise a stink when she's connected with Kylo.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by soulluos on Wed 6 Sep - 17:32

vaderito wrote:
soulluos wrote:  

Vanity Fair, EW, Empire and the recent NY interview, does Rian directly talk about Rey? Never. And if he does, he changes the subject to Luke or Kylo. This is supposed to be Rey's story, why not talk about her a little bit?
@soulluos

But he talks about Rey,  it's just that he talks about Rey in the same sentences with Kylo or Luke. But he actually talked about Rey as much as he talked about Kylo. So did Daisy. Didn't she say that Rey cannot understand how could Kylo kill his father? That's no different from Finn being talked about in the same sentence with Rose and vice versa. No slight on Rey whatsoever, it's just that some people turn a blind eye when she's connected with Luke but raise a stink when she's connected with Kylo.
@vaderito

Yeah, he talks about Rey, in one sentence. And of course Daisy is going to talk about her own character.

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