The Last Jedi: General Discussion

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Macha Ren on Wed 6 Sep - 17:41



"Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist."

Am I reading this right? Is he insinuating that both of them are two halves of the actual protagonist, not just a ying and a yang to each other? In other words, will they both embody the good, the bad and the ugly necessary to be the hero of the story, that one cannot function without the other?

Sure, there's mincing of words, but it really does sound they are two pieces to a larger puzzle. Won't bring in other thoughts from other forums, but these words seem rather deliberate.

And I just realized my lunchtime revelation has already been discussed. Carry on. Nothing to see here.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 17:45

@Macha Ren wrote:So there's a new Rian Johnson interview in today's https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson.html?mcubz=3, and this quote stands out:

"Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist."

Am I reading this right? Is he insinuating that both of them are two halves of the actual protagonist, not just a ying and a yang to each other? In other words, will they both embody the good, the bad and the ugly necessary to be the hero of the story, that one cannot function without the other?

Sure, there's mincing of words, but it really does sound they are two pieces to a larger puzzle.
@Macha Ren

They are the Chosen One. Half + Half = Whole = One. That was already in TFA. Poeple always think Chosen One must be One Person. But in this case, it's two halves that make one. Two sides that make one. The Force = Light + Dark and they are two halves of the light and the dark. Together they are the Force.

It's so much bigger than just the balance.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 6 Sep - 17:46

@Macha Ren wrote:So there's a new Rian Johnson interview in today's https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson.html?mcubz=3, and this quote stands out:

"Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist."

Am I reading this right? Is he insinuating that both of them are two halves of the actual protagonist, not just a ying and a yang to each other? In other words, will they both embody the good, the bad and the ugly necessary to be the hero of the story, that one cannot function without the other?

Sure, there's mincing of words, but it really does sound they are two pieces to a larger puzzle.
@Macha Ren

If you look at yin and yang together - it's a whole. They're always in the circle tied together. At least it's how I see it.

It's the "entity" with two equal elements.


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Wed 6 Sep - 17:54

They're each other's Other Half, the literal idiomatic expression in English when you're referring to your romantic/life partner. Which is going to make things interesting and likely while there's a huge amount of tap dancing in the run-up press and interviews about what's going to happen with the characters. They can't really say any more than Rey is going to meet Luke and he'll be grumpy to her because of some bad stuff his nephew did in the past. Anything else wouldn't just spoil the story, it'd spoil a lot of assumptions which both fans and the press (many of whom are basically professional fans) jumped to after TFA. And it'd also have a lot of fans not want to give it a fair viewing because it's going to sound like a Eugene O'Neill play set in space. Which it probably will be and nerds like me, who love both, are probably not the mainstream. There will likely be a lot of the old fashioned pew pew pew space politics stuff courtesy of Finn and Poe to keep most of the traditionalists happy. But a lot of them are likely going to get as upset over TLJ as they were over the PT because it's not afraid to go off in other directions instead of sticking to the playbook (which JJ did, but he was also pretty subversive underneath). This isn't going to be about Reywalker or even about Kylo going full dark/evil and being destroyed in the end. It's something different and if we're lucky, he'll be continuing on to direct the 3rd installment. He may not have decided yet because he has to finish with this movie and packing up to go live/work abroad for a year is a major commitment. Or JJ's loaded hints that Ava Duvernay should be courted heavily thanks to her input, which is responsible for the most iconic parts of Snow Fight, means they're on the phone with her. It sucks for Trevorrow, but when you look at the work being done recently by the cast, the quality, and the directors they're working with (including Johnson), that had to have felt like an elephant in the room right there.

Also the whole other half part, that's where you get JJ's quote about the two sides of the Force awakening in these characters. Light for her and Dark for him, which together equal the whole (or mix the two colors, get gray and provoke another meltdown from the more pedantic members of the fandom).


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 6 Sep - 18:03

It's funny because certain fans should be pleased that there's a renewed focus on this "two halves of a whole" rhetoric. This means that Rey's ultimate purpose in TLJ is NOT just to inspire Luke, and mend bridges as she observes the Luke'n'Kylo Two Angry Men Show, but to come to terms with her own shadow. That Other Half. You can get to the very root of a heroine's journey with this scenario, just like a million Reylos have said (and been enthusiastic about, and gradually lost faith in) since December 2015.

But they're not pleased because they don't actually want a heroine's journey Smile
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 6 Sep - 18:15


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by kroi on Wed 6 Sep - 18:27

Is this where the 'Rian is the biggest Reylo celebration' is or is there another thread for that? Laughing Wink bounce
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by tukicarreno on Wed 6 Sep - 18:35

@kroi wrote:Is this where the 'Rian is the biggest Reylo celebration' is or is there another thread for that? Laughing Wink bounce
@kroi

Lol! I am so happy! All what´s missing is for them to officially name Rian as the episode IX director! Hoping by next week they do this. bounce


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by kroi on Wed 6 Sep - 18:49

@tukicarreno wrote:
@kroi wrote:Is this where the 'Rian is the biggest Reylo celebration' is or is there another thread for that? Laughing Wink bounce
@kroi

Lol! I am so happy! All what´s missing is for them to officially to name Rian as the episode IX director! Hoping by next week they do this. bounce
@tukicarreno

Yes, and 'tis only fitting since he wished he could've had central romance in TLJ.... Very Happy
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 19:13

@snufkin wrote:They're each other's Other Half, the literal idiomatic expression in English when you're referring to your romantic/life partner. .
@snufkin



This is the back cover for Love So Bold romance.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 19:39

@snufkin

Or JJ's loaded hints that Ava Duvernay should be courted heavily thanks to her input, which is responsible for the most iconic parts of Snow Fight

Shhhhh, don't let antis hear you! They are stanning for Ava but if they remember that she made that match iconic they'll turn against her and tweet her some crap. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Xylo Ren on Wed 6 Sep - 20:44

This weird panic/guardianship over Rey's visibility...

Rey's been heavily featured in the behind-the-scenes and the trailer. She's EVERYWHERE in store displays and promotions. Thank the Lord they made more merch for her this time around. Daisy has been at every TLJ panel.

Kylo getting some air time isn't taking away from hers at all. She'll be fine.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep - 20:54

@Xylo Ren wrote:This weird panic/guardianship over Rey's visibility...

Rey's been heavily featured in the behind-the-scenes and the trailer. She's EVERYWHERE in store displays and promotions. Thank the Lord they made more merch for her this time around. Daisy has been at every TLJ panel.

Kylo getting some air time isn't taking away from hers at all. She'll be fine.
@Xylo Ren

like I said, it's a freakout by anti-Reylo crowd. The moment she's mentioned together with Kylo they are screaming that she's slighted and what not. nevermind that she's been mentioned with Luke 24-7 and shared magazine covers with him, etc but not a peep. But enter Kylo and - boom - they got their panties in a twist and immediately reached for social activism as a defense shield ("we do it to raise awareness about director's sexism not because Reylo's sunk our theory/ship"). They aren't fooling anyone and their meltdowns are giving everyone a good laugh.

I'm now seeing attempts to spin Rian's quote as that he replaced Finn with Kylo as the protagonist although Rian didn't even mention Finn cause that's not the context of his quote. They'd do anything to create discourse because they know they lost. That right there is a sign of utter defeat but one without dignity. lol!
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 6 Sep - 21:13

@vaderito - They know they lost? How do we leap to this conclusion? Many people would take two halves of a whole as the cousin model and representations of Anakin/Vader.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Saracene on Wed 6 Sep - 21:29

@Acritiqua wrote:@vaderito - They know they lost? How do we leap to this conclusion? Many people would take two halves of a whole as the cousin model and representations of Anakin/Vader.
@Acritiqua

I think it's possible to interpret "two halves" however way you want. At the most simplistic, you could take it to mean that Rey is the "good" half and Kylo is the "bad" half.

Regarding Rey's place in the story, it was always going to be tricky, with her a protagonist who comes into an established family saga while not being a part of the family herself. There's no way for her story not to revolve around the core Skywalker family in one way or another.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 6 Sep - 21:56

@Saracene wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:@vaderito - They know they lost? How do we leap to this conclusion? Many people would take two halves of a whole as the cousin model and representations of Anakin/Vader.
@Acritiqua

I think it's possible to interpret "two halves" however way you want. At the most simplistic, you could take it to mean that Rey is the "good" half and Kylo is the "bad" half.

Regarding Rey's place in the story, it was always going to be tricky, with her a protagonist who comes into an established family saga while not being a part of the family herself. There's no way for her story not to revolve around the core Skywalker family in one way or another.
@Saracene I know all this. I simply don't understand the sense that the "antis" have "lost" because nothing seems to have changed. The two halves thing can apply to all the theories regarding Rey and her parentage in particular.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Thu 7 Sep - 0:11

@Acritiqua wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:@vaderito - They know they lost? How do we leap to this conclusion? Many people would take two halves of a whole as the cousin model and representations of Anakin/Vader.
@Acritiqua

I think it's possible to interpret "two halves" however way you want. At the most simplistic, you could take it to mean that Rey is the "good" half and Kylo is the "bad" half.

Regarding Rey's place in the story, it was always going to be tricky, with her a protagonist who comes into an established family saga while not being a part of the family herself. There's no way for her story not to revolve around the core Skywalker family in one way or another.
@Saracene I know all this. I simply don't understand the sense that the "antis" have "lost" because nothing seems to have changed. The two halves thing can apply to all the theories regarding Rey and her parentage in particular.
@Acritiqua

Basically, they lost because they lost their sith over a simple statement that seemingly goes against their headcanons and beliefs and all possibilities of a rational discussion went down the drain with them. 

2kids in a playground

kid 1: "Your mama is fat"

kid 2 wouldve lost if they went on a mama defensive rampage. Kid 2 would win if they come up with a mama redeeming clap back.

kid2: "Well yo mama is ugly. My mama is fat but can get thin. Yo mama ugly forever."
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Kylo Men on Thu 7 Sep - 0:47

So I'm guessing other forums (that I haven't been to yet) are in a state of pandemonium?

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Thu 7 Sep - 0:54

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Saracene I know all this. I simply don't understand the sense that the "antis" have "lost" because nothing seems to have changed. The two halves thing can apply to all the theories regarding Rey and her parentage in particular.
@Acritiqua

Basically, they lost because they lost their sith over a simple statement that seemingly goes against their headcanons and beliefs and all possibilities of a rational discussion went down the drain with them. 

2kids in a playground

kid 1: "Your mama is fat"

kid 2 wouldve lost if they went on a mama defensive rampage. Kid 2 would win if they come up with a mama redeeming clap back.

kid2: "Well yo mama is ugly. My mama is fat but can get thin. Yo mama ugly forever."[/quote]
@Rei of Sunshine

This. Exactly this. You don't lose your sith and act like a hysterical cow if you feel like a winner.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Kylo Men on Thu 7 Sep - 1:00

@vaderito wrote:
like I said, it's a freakout by anti-Reylo crowd. The moment she's mentioned together with Kylo they are screaming that she's slighted and what not. nevermind that she's been mentioned with Luke 24-7 and shared magazine covers with him, etc but not a peep. But enter Kylo and - boom - they got their panties in a twist and immediately reached for social activism as a defense shield ("we do it to raise awareness about director's sexism not because Reylo's sunk our theory/ship"). They aren't fooling anyone and their meltdowns are giving everyone a good laugh.

I'm now seeing attempts to spin Rian's quote as that he replaced Finn with Kylo as the protagonist although Rian didn't even mention Finn cause that's not the context of his quote. They'd do anything to create discourse because they know they lost. That right there is a sign of utter defeat but one without dignity. lol!

Finn was obviously never the protagonist.


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 7 Sep - 1:07

I'm finally getting a chance to read the NYT interview that everyone was discussing here this morning:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson.html?mcubz=0

I didn't see this quote mentioned, but it sure feels like another nail in the Reywalker coffin:

Rian Johnson wrote:Take the question of who Rey’s parents are: If you get the information — oh, it’s that! — who really cares? I know a lot of people care, but it’s interesting as opposed to impactful. Now, what is my place in the world? Where do I come from? Where do I belong? O.K., I understand what the weight of that is. We could play with those questions and their answers to have the biggest emotional impact on these characters.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Thu 7 Sep - 1:07

@Kylo Men wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
like I said, it's a freakout by anti-Reylo crowd. The moment she's mentioned together with Kylo they are screaming that she's slighted and what not. nevermind that she's been mentioned with Luke 24-7 and shared magazine covers with him, etc but not a peep. But enter Kylo and - boom - they got their panties in a twist and immediately reached for social activism as a defense shield ("we do it to raise awareness about director's sexism not because Reylo's sunk our theory/ship"). They aren't fooling anyone and their meltdowns are giving everyone a good laugh.

I'm now seeing attempts to spin Rian's quote as that he replaced Finn with Kylo as the protagonist although Rian didn't even mention Finn cause that's not the context of his quote. They'd do anything to create discourse because they know they lost. That right there is a sign of utter defeat but one without dignity. lol!

Finn was obviously never the protagonist.

@Kylo Men

Rian says there are many protagonists in TLJ. 

I know thats unusual in most stories and highly unmanageable, but I suppose he means that each character has their own arc in which they are the protagonists.

Rey and Kylo-Force Plot
Poe- Resistance Plot
Finn and Rose - Undercover mission Plot

No one's replacing anyone, it's just that Kylo has now been upgraded from TFA villian to TLJ protagonist/deuteragonist as a transistion in his own arc, which largely affects Rey's arc.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Kylo Men on Thu 7 Sep - 1:20

I didn't mean he's not a protagonist. Just not the main one, IMO.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Thu 7 Sep - 1:21

@ISeeanIsland, that's the money quote! He has as much patience with people who want to get into the weeds over Rey's parentage or Snoke's identity as he did with the film nerds who tried to nitpick over time travel being something to obsess over in Looper instead of being a motif which serves the story and character challenges/development

“No time travel in any movie ever makes sense. It’s complete balderdash, and it’s just a matter of tricking an audience into believing it makes sense.”

I don't want to talk about time travel because if we start talking about it then we're going to be here all day talking about it, making diagrams with straws.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 7 Sep - 1:39

Another NYT quote that I haven't seen discussed much yet here:

Nothing like that. But it’s the second film in a trilogy. The first film got these characters here. This second movie has to dig into and challenge these characters. I wanted this to be a satisfying experience unto itself. I didn’t want it to end with a dot, dot, dot, question mark.

Now, that sounds like we're not getting too cliffhanger-ish of an ending. We'll see, of course.
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