The Last Jedi: General Discussion

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Mana on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:32

Darth Dingbat wrote:
Mana wrote:
vaderito wrote:
soulluos wrote:REDACTED
@soulluos

I'm not getting that from Rian at all. I know that there's a headhunt on other forum where Rian's CV about female characters wouldn't have been questioned if he'd said that Rey and Finn were two halves of the protagonist (like Rey and Kylo) or the heart of TLJ (like rey and Luke). I know you are not one of them but there's a significant double standard going on in some circles so I'm calling them out.  Very Happy
@vaderito

Funny how these 'concerns' are popping up now. Its been more than a year since filming wrapped on TLJ and even longer since Rian was announced to be the director of TLJ. At least with Trevorrow people had every right to be concerned and they were from the get go.

Kathy Kennedy and Bob Iger seem pleased with what Rian has done with TLJ. Don't see the need to be worried.
@Mana

Not to mention that nobody (I don't mean nobody here, but "elsewhere") seemed especially interested in discussing Rian's repeated emphasis on Robert Bly last spring. I said back then that Bly's focus on the male psyche and male wounds is a bit of a concern, and fans had better hope Rey gets her fair share of "respecting the shadow" and coming to terms with it. Otherwise she's effectively sidelined, as other characters get the interesting psychodrama.

Instead, said fans have been keen on keeping Rey as far away from all shadow and darkness as possible. Heaven forbid should even her pinky finger touch a shadow of any kind.

I'm not concerned at this stage. If Rey becomes an on-looker in her own story, then I'll complain. But these people who are panicking now are completely oblivious to the classic heroine's journey, so no wonder they're panicking like mad.
@Darth Dingbat

And Rey Skywalker is the best way to get Rey sidelined and make Luke the big bad*** hero who needs Rey to help him get his groove back.
Its been 84 years and still people are pushing for that theory.
Rey and Kylo being two halves of a whole is all about Rey needed to integrate with the shadow in order to complete her heroine's journey....but naaaaah thats sexist
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by nemapasara on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:34

soulluos wrote:
vaderito wrote:@soulluos The poster also believes in Soloist (Anastasia crap) so he definitely does not inspire respect around here. I'm sorry that I don't find his worry of Rian credible in any way cause I haven't seen any reason why I should. He went as far as citing Rian's younger sister as a proof that Rey is a Solo. That's some next level of reaching.

It's OK to post other people's thoughts for discussion sake, though, but if they are not credible they'll be called out like Zeroh, MoviePilot, Helmet Faker, etc.

@Mana Concerns always pop up when Rey and Kylo are mentioned in the same sentence or packaged in the same toy box or whatever. Nobody blinks an eye at Rey sharing the heart of the story with Luke but it's a definite slight on her status as a main protagonist if she and Kylo are two halves of the whole. Rolling Eyes In the meantime, people who always raise those concerns have been known for plotting how Finn should hijack the story from Rey and be revealed as the true hero. Like I said in another post, uproar over Relatable Kylo had nothing to do with Kylo but with sinking headcanons, theories and ships.
@vaderito

Vanity Fair, EW, Empire and the recent NY interview, does Rian directly talk about Rey? Never. And if he does, he changes the subject to Luke or Kylo. This is supposed to be Rey's story, why not talk about her a little bit? Rian just doesn't give me any confidence that he can do Rey's character justice. At this stage, Colin has talked more about Rey than Rian does.
@soulluos

I understand your concerns but to be fair, Rian hasn't talked about Kylo at all until the EW article. And the times he's talked about Kylo, he's bringing up Rey - not the other way around. I'm more concerned about Luke and him overshadowing Rey's journey but like what others said, LF seem happy with what Rian has done and they're obviously not afraid to interject when they think the director's vision doesn't align with theirs. Wasn't the orginial screewriter for TFA fired because he focused too much on the OT characters? I think someone brought it up on here. Why would they go as far as firing a guy for that but then accepting it in their director/writer for TLJ? I think they use Luke and Rey's dynamic as a safety blanket. People are hyped for more Luke and what happened to him and it's easy to talk about it, it's safe. Mark himself said that it's no longer his story, that he's not the focus. I'm just hoping it abates your concerns a bit, I do get it.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:35

soulluos wrote:

Yeah, he talks about Rey, in one sentence. And of course Daisy is going to talk about her own character.
@soulluos

It's not a one sentence and he cannot answer questions he isn't asked. I'm sorry to say but all magazines seem to obsess over Luke so they ask about him and get a handful of quotes. So on the scale of who gets talked about way more than anyone else, it's Luke. Not Rey, not Kylo, not all characters combined but Luke. Luke and obligatory Carrie/Leia tributes.

There's no slighting Rey just media's interest in Luke puts him at the forefront of director's quotes.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Mana on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:35

soulluos wrote:
vaderito wrote:
soulluos wrote:  

Vanity Fair, EW, Empire and the recent NY interview, does Rian directly talk about Rey? Never. And if he does, he changes the subject to Luke or Kylo. This is supposed to be Rey's story, why not talk about her a little bit?
@soulluos

But he talks about Rey,  it's just that he talks about Rey in the same sentences with Kylo or Luke. But he actually talked about Rey as much as he talked about Kylo. So did Daisy. Didn't she say that Rey cannot understand how could Kylo kill his father? That's no different from Finn being talked about in the same sentence with Rose and vice versa. No slight on Rey whatsoever, it's just that some people turn a blind eye when she's connected with Luke but raise a stink when she's connected with Kylo.
@vaderito

Yeah, he talks about Rey, in one sentence. And of course Daisy is going to talk about her own character.
@soulluos

To be fair there was a whole EW article dedicated to Rey's background and what that might mean for her going forward where Rian, Mark and Daisy all talk about Rey.

Also, Luke seems to be the focus this time around because the fans want it that way and the magazines cater to that need.


Last edited by Mana on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:37; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by IoJovi on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:36

Guys, please stop quoting the lifted post from another forum.  I've probably edited 20 posts now in an attempt to remove it from our forum.


Thanks for your help.  

_________________
"Kylo and Rey are two halves of the dark and the light.” - Rian Johnson
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Macha Ren on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:41



"Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist."

Am I reading this right? Is he insinuating that both of them are two halves of the actual protagonist, not just a ying and a yang to each other? In other words, will they both embody the good, the bad and the ugly necessary to be the hero of the story, that one cannot function without the other?

Sure, there's mincing of words, but it really does sound they are two pieces to a larger puzzle. Won't bring in other thoughts from other forums, but these words seem rather deliberate.

And I just realized my lunchtime revelation has already been discussed. Carry on. Nothing to see here.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:45

Macha Ren wrote:So there's a new Rian Johnson interview in today's https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson.html?mcubz=3, and this quote stands out:

"Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist."

Am I reading this right? Is he insinuating that both of them are two halves of the actual protagonist, not just a ying and a yang to each other? In other words, will they both embody the good, the bad and the ugly necessary to be the hero of the story, that one cannot function without the other?

Sure, there's mincing of words, but it really does sound they are two pieces to a larger puzzle.
@Macha Ren

They are the Chosen One. Half + Half = Whole = One. That was already in TFA. Poeple always think Chosen One must be One Person. But in this case, it's two halves that make one. Two sides that make one. The Force = Light + Dark and they are two halves of the light and the dark. Together they are the Force.

It's so much bigger than just the balance.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:46

Macha Ren wrote:So there's a new Rian Johnson interview in today's https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson.html?mcubz=3, and this quote stands out:

"Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist."

Am I reading this right? Is he insinuating that both of them are two halves of the actual protagonist, not just a ying and a yang to each other? In other words, will they both embody the good, the bad and the ugly necessary to be the hero of the story, that one cannot function without the other?

Sure, there's mincing of words, but it really does sound they are two pieces to a larger puzzle.
@Macha Ren

If you look at yin and yang together - it's a whole. They're always in the circle tied together. At least it's how I see it.

It's the "entity" with two equal elements.


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 10:54

They're each other's Other Half, the literal idiomatic expression in English when you're referring to your romantic/life partner. Which is going to make things interesting and likely while there's a huge amount of tap dancing in the run-up press and interviews about what's going to happen with the characters. They can't really say any more than Rey is going to meet Luke and he'll be grumpy to her because of some bad stuff his nephew did in the past. Anything else wouldn't just spoil the story, it'd spoil a lot of assumptions which both fans and the press (many of whom are basically professional fans) jumped to after TFA. And it'd also have a lot of fans not want to give it a fair viewing because it's going to sound like a Eugene O'Neill play set in space. Which it probably will be and nerds like me, who love both, are probably not the mainstream. There will likely be a lot of the old fashioned pew pew pew space politics stuff courtesy of Finn and Poe to keep most of the traditionalists happy. But a lot of them are likely going to get as upset over TLJ as they were over the PT because it's not afraid to go off in other directions instead of sticking to the playbook (which JJ did, but he was also pretty subversive underneath). This isn't going to be about Reywalker or even about Kylo going full dark/evil and being destroyed in the end. It's something different and if we're lucky, he'll be continuing on to direct the 3rd installment. He may not have decided yet because he has to finish with this movie and packing up to go live/work abroad for a year is a major commitment. Or JJ's loaded hints that Ava Duvernay should be courted heavily thanks to her input, which is responsible for the most iconic parts of Snow Fight, means they're on the phone with her. It sucks for Trevorrow, but when you look at the work being done recently by the cast, the quality, and the directors they're working with (including Johnson), that had to have felt like an elephant in the room right there.

Also the whole other half part, that's where you get JJ's quote about the two sides of the Force awakening in these characters. Light for her and Dark for him, which together equal the whole (or mix the two colors, get gray and provoke another meltdown from the more pedantic members of the fandom).


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 11:03

It's funny because certain fans should be pleased that there's a renewed focus on this "two halves of a whole" rhetoric. This means that Rey's ultimate purpose in TLJ is NOT just to inspire Luke, and mend bridges as she observes the Luke'n'Kylo Two Angry Men Show, but to come to terms with her own shadow. That Other Half. You can get to the very root of a heroine's journey with this scenario, just like a million Reylos have said (and been enthusiastic about, and gradually lost faith in) since December 2015.

But they're not pleased because they don't actually want a heroine's journey Smile
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 11:15


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by kroi on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 11:27

Is this where the 'Rian is the biggest Reylo celebration' is or is there another thread for that? Laughing Wink bounce
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by tukicarreno on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 11:35

kroi wrote:Is this where the 'Rian is the biggest Reylo celebration' is or is there another thread for that? Laughing Wink bounce
@kroi

Lol! I am so happy! All what´s missing is for them to officially name Rian as the episode IX director! Hoping by next week they do this. bounce


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by kroi on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 11:49

tukicarreno wrote:
kroi wrote:Is this where the 'Rian is the biggest Reylo celebration' is or is there another thread for that? Laughing Wink bounce
@kroi

Lol! I am so happy! All what´s missing is for them to officially to name Rian as the episode IX director! Hoping by next week they do this. bounce
@tukicarreno

Yes, and 'tis only fitting since he wished he could've had central romance in TLJ.... Very Happy
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 12:13

snufkin wrote:They're each other's Other Half, the literal idiomatic expression in English when you're referring to your romantic/life partner. .
@snufkin



This is the back cover for Love So Bold romance.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 12:39

@snufkin

Or JJ's loaded hints that Ava Duvernay should be courted heavily thanks to her input, which is responsible for the most iconic parts of Snow Fight

Shhhhh, don't let antis hear you! They are stanning for Ava but if they remember that she made that match iconic they'll turn against her and tweet her some crap. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Xylo Ren on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 13:44

This weird panic/guardianship over Rey's visibility...

Rey's been heavily featured in the behind-the-scenes and the trailer. She's EVERYWHERE in store displays and promotions. Thank the Lord they made more merch for her this time around. Daisy has been at every TLJ panel.

Kylo getting some air time isn't taking away from hers at all. She'll be fine.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 13:54

Xylo Ren wrote:This weird panic/guardianship over Rey's visibility...

Rey's been heavily featured in the behind-the-scenes and the trailer. She's EVERYWHERE in store displays and promotions. Thank the Lord they made more merch for her this time around. Daisy has been at every TLJ panel.

Kylo getting some air time isn't taking away from hers at all. She'll be fine.
@Xylo Ren

like I said, it's a freakout by anti-Reylo crowd. The moment she's mentioned together with Kylo they are screaming that she's slighted and what not. nevermind that she's been mentioned with Luke 24-7 and shared magazine covers with him, etc but not a peep. But enter Kylo and - boom - they got their panties in a twist and immediately reached for social activism as a defense shield ("we do it to raise awareness about director's sexism not because Reylo's sunk our theory/ship"). They aren't fooling anyone and their meltdowns are giving everyone a good laugh.

I'm now seeing attempts to spin Rian's quote as that he replaced Finn with Kylo as the protagonist although Rian didn't even mention Finn cause that's not the context of his quote. They'd do anything to create discourse because they know they lost. That right there is a sign of utter defeat but one without dignity. lol!
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 14:13

@vaderito - They know they lost? How do we leap to this conclusion? Many people would take two halves of a whole as the cousin model and representations of Anakin/Vader.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Saracene on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 14:29

Acritiqua wrote:@vaderito - They know they lost? How do we leap to this conclusion? Many people would take two halves of a whole as the cousin model and representations of Anakin/Vader.
@Acritiqua

I think it's possible to interpret "two halves" however way you want. At the most simplistic, you could take it to mean that Rey is the "good" half and Kylo is the "bad" half.

Regarding Rey's place in the story, it was always going to be tricky, with her a protagonist who comes into an established family saga while not being a part of the family herself. There's no way for her story not to revolve around the core Skywalker family in one way or another.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 14:56

Saracene wrote:
Acritiqua wrote:@vaderito - They know they lost? How do we leap to this conclusion? Many people would take two halves of a whole as the cousin model and representations of Anakin/Vader.
@Acritiqua

I think it's possible to interpret "two halves" however way you want. At the most simplistic, you could take it to mean that Rey is the "good" half and Kylo is the "bad" half.

Regarding Rey's place in the story, it was always going to be tricky, with her a protagonist who comes into an established family saga while not being a part of the family herself. There's no way for her story not to revolve around the core Skywalker family in one way or another.
@Saracene I know all this. I simply don't understand the sense that the "antis" have "lost" because nothing seems to have changed. The two halves thing can apply to all the theories regarding Rey and her parentage in particular.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 17:11

Acritiqua wrote:
Saracene wrote:
Acritiqua wrote:@vaderito - They know they lost? How do we leap to this conclusion? Many people would take two halves of a whole as the cousin model and representations of Anakin/Vader.
@Acritiqua

I think it's possible to interpret "two halves" however way you want. At the most simplistic, you could take it to mean that Rey is the "good" half and Kylo is the "bad" half.

Regarding Rey's place in the story, it was always going to be tricky, with her a protagonist who comes into an established family saga while not being a part of the family herself. There's no way for her story not to revolve around the core Skywalker family in one way or another.
@Saracene I know all this. I simply don't understand the sense that the "antis" have "lost" because nothing seems to have changed. The two halves thing can apply to all the theories regarding Rey and her parentage in particular.
@Acritiqua

Basically, they lost because they lost their sith over a simple statement that seemingly goes against their headcanons and beliefs and all possibilities of a rational discussion went down the drain with them. 

2kids in a playground

kid 1: "Your mama is fat"

kid 2 wouldve lost if they went on a mama defensive rampage. Kid 2 would win if they come up with a mama redeeming clap back.

kid2: "Well yo mama is ugly. My mama is fat but can get thin. Yo mama ugly forever."
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Kylo Men on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 17:47

So I'm guessing other forums (that I haven't been to yet) are in a state of pandemonium?

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 17:54

Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Saracene I know all this. I simply don't understand the sense that the "antis" have "lost" because nothing seems to have changed. The two halves thing can apply to all the theories regarding Rey and her parentage in particular.
@Acritiqua

Basically, they lost because they lost their sith over a simple statement that seemingly goes against their headcanons and beliefs and all possibilities of a rational discussion went down the drain with them. 

2kids in a playground

kid 1: "Your mama is fat"

kid 2 wouldve lost if they went on a mama defensive rampage. Kid 2 would win if they come up with a mama redeeming clap back.

kid2: "Well yo mama is ugly. My mama is fat but can get thin. Yo mama ugly forever."[/quote]
@Rei of Sunshine

This. Exactly this. You don't lose your sith and act like a hysterical cow if you feel like a winner.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Kylo Men on Wed 6 Sep 2017 - 18:00

vaderito wrote:
like I said, it's a freakout by anti-Reylo crowd. The moment she's mentioned together with Kylo they are screaming that she's slighted and what not. nevermind that she's been mentioned with Luke 24-7 and shared magazine covers with him, etc but not a peep. But enter Kylo and - boom - they got their panties in a twist and immediately reached for social activism as a defense shield ("we do it to raise awareness about director's sexism not because Reylo's sunk our theory/ship"). They aren't fooling anyone and their meltdowns are giving everyone a good laugh.

I'm now seeing attempts to spin Rian's quote as that he replaced Finn with Kylo as the protagonist although Rian didn't even mention Finn cause that's not the context of his quote. They'd do anything to create discourse because they know they lost. That right there is a sign of utter defeat but one without dignity. lol!

Finn was obviously never the protagonist.


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