The Last Jedi: General Discussion

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 7 Sep - 1:07

I'm finally getting a chance to read the NYT interview that everyone was discussing here this morning:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson.html?mcubz=0

I didn't see this quote mentioned, but it sure feels like another nail in the Reywalker coffin:

Rian Johnson wrote:Take the question of who Rey’s parents are: If you get the information — oh, it’s that! — who really cares? I know a lot of people care, but it’s interesting as opposed to impactful. Now, what is my place in the world? Where do I come from? Where do I belong? O.K., I understand what the weight of that is. We could play with those questions and their answers to have the biggest emotional impact on these characters.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Thu 7 Sep - 1:07

Kylo Men wrote:
vaderito wrote:
like I said, it's a freakout by anti-Reylo crowd. The moment she's mentioned together with Kylo they are screaming that she's slighted and what not. nevermind that she's been mentioned with Luke 24-7 and shared magazine covers with him, etc but not a peep. But enter Kylo and - boom - they got their panties in a twist and immediately reached for social activism as a defense shield ("we do it to raise awareness about director's sexism not because Reylo's sunk our theory/ship"). They aren't fooling anyone and their meltdowns are giving everyone a good laugh.

I'm now seeing attempts to spin Rian's quote as that he replaced Finn with Kylo as the protagonist although Rian didn't even mention Finn cause that's not the context of his quote. They'd do anything to create discourse because they know they lost. That right there is a sign of utter defeat but one without dignity. lol!

Finn was obviously never the protagonist.

@Kylo Men

Rian says there are many protagonists in TLJ. 

I know thats unusual in most stories and highly unmanageable, but I suppose he means that each character has their own arc in which they are the protagonists.

Rey and Kylo-Force Plot
Poe- Resistance Plot
Finn and Rose - Undercover mission Plot

No one's replacing anyone, it's just that Kylo has now been upgraded from TFA villian to TLJ protagonist/deuteragonist as a transistion in his own arc, which largely affects Rey's arc.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Kylo Men on Thu 7 Sep - 1:20

I didn't mean he's not a protagonist. Just not the main one, IMO.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Thu 7 Sep - 1:21

@ISeeanIsland, that's the money quote! He has as much patience with people who want to get into the weeds over Rey's parentage or Snoke's identity as he did with the film nerds who tried to nitpick over time travel being something to obsess over in Looper instead of being a motif which serves the story and character challenges/development

“No time travel in any movie ever makes sense. It’s complete balderdash, and it’s just a matter of tricking an audience into believing it makes sense.”

I don't want to talk about time travel because if we start talking about it then we're going to be here all day talking about it, making diagrams with straws.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 7 Sep - 1:39

Another NYT quote that I haven't seen discussed much yet here:

Nothing like that. But it’s the second film in a trilogy. The first film got these characters here. This second movie has to dig into and challenge these characters. I wanted this to be a satisfying experience unto itself. I didn’t want it to end with a dot, dot, dot, question mark.

Now, that sounds like we're not getting too cliffhanger-ish of an ending. We'll see, of course.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Thu 7 Sep - 1:41

Kylo Men wrote:I didn't mean he's not a protagonist. Just not the main one, IMO.
@Kylo Men

Who is main protagonist or not is decided by perception and not necessarily what's meant. For example, while Elizabeth Swann is meant to be the main protagonist in the first POTC, audience perception is that Captain Jack Sparrow is. Never mind that she is realistically and by intention the main lead, people feel that he is and then sequels catered to that idea.

Finn is deuterologist aka secondary protagonist to Rey's protagonist (or main protagonist). The phrase main protagonist is also used for multiple protagonists to distinguish them from supporting characters. So it's tricky. But there's no doubt that Rey is above everyone.

That said, Rian's quote about why Rey and Kylo inspired him wasn't about their status as protagonists but about something entirely different. How some people came to a conclusion that Rian was slighting one character is a big question mark. They sure made Finn sound like a third wheel in that twitter exchange, though.


Last edited by vaderito on Thu 7 Sep - 2:19; edited 2 times in total
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Acritiqua on Thu 7 Sep - 1:43

vaderito wrote:
Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Saracene I know all this. I simply don't understand the sense that the "antis" have "lost" because nothing seems to have changed. The two halves thing can apply to all the theories regarding Rey and her parentage in particular.
@Acritiqua

Basically, they lost because they lost their sith over a simple statement that seemingly goes against their headcanons and beliefs and all possibilities of a rational discussion went down the drain with them. 

2kids in a playground

kid 1: "Your mama is fat"

kid 2 wouldve lost if they went on a mama defensive rampage. Kid 2 would win if they come up with a mama redeeming clap back.

kid2: "Well yo mama is ugly. My mama is fat but can get thin. Yo mama ugly forever."

[/quote]
@vaderito

Okay. Makes sense!
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by SanghaRen on Thu 7 Sep - 7:56

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Another NYT quote that I haven't seen discussed much yet here:

Nothing like that. But it’s the second film in a trilogy. The first film got these characters here. This second movie has to dig into and challenge these characters. I wanted this to be a satisfying experience unto itself. I didn’t want it to end with a dot, dot, dot, question mark.

Now, that sounds like we're not getting too cliffhanger-ish of an ending. We'll see, of course.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yes, I really hope this is true, but then we might have different ideas of what a dot dot dot question mark is. For me it would be question mark on any of the characters being alive and question mark on main characters' motivations. Actually thinking about it, the second one is more important to me. Enigmatic Rey as mentioned in the introduction by the journalist will hopefully not be a walking enigma anymore. And if redemption is in the cards for Kylo, a tangible sign that he is on this path.

I have to laugh reading every RJ interview lately. He really insists on saying he was free to take the story wherever he wanted, no specific plotlines to respect. Sometimes I am thinking that he knows about PlotGate and trolls. Also directors of big franchises usually love to say how free they were so maybe it's part of their contract to cater to a cool image of the producing company Smile

But after reading this article, I was thinking how that full freedom in creating the story could work. It's true that the best ideation workshops are the ones where you leave all the restrictions at the door and just go wild with ideas. Then you can go back to restrict the ideas based on the reality of your situation and sometimes also laws of physics Razz Maybe that was the process. So one part of me can now even believe in the blank white board. And not care about the potential flip side of it, but more about the positively crazy stuff that might have come out of this freedom. Maybe because I love ideation workshops and free brainstorming and think they can produce the best ideas. Lucky LF people. I do not attend or facilitate workshops anymore, but it's ok because they've become very restricted and boring.

Funny what he says about there being fewer paths possible than you think in explaining why Luke is on the island. I am intrigued now...
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Thu 7 Sep - 12:56



Beauty! I do think that kneeling is going to be in the movie. Also, they are definitely parting his hair like Anakin's only the opposite side (Reverse Anakin?):

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 7 Sep - 13:01

I absolutely love that one!!!
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Thu 7 Sep - 13:13

I so freakin dig his new look. Such a Prince. H-beating

I hope that they don't dwell much on his piloting skills. It's too generic considering how many characters can fly. It's nice to know but focus on what defines him and makes him unique which is this. Prince, Knight, One Half of the Light and the Dark.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by kroi on Thu 7 Sep - 14:57

Just saw someone elsewhere point out that Rey has what looks like Luke's compass behind her in this coloring book: http://mummiesandlightsabers.tumblr.com/post/165056377044/i-bought-this-tlj-colouring-book-today-and-took

They mentioned that Kylo has a different version behind him... what if Luke's compass leads him to see that the two of them together are the 'balance'?

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Thu 7 Sep - 15:06

@kroi Great catch! To compare, this is the compass (top):



so it's the same thing. But assuming both Rey and Kylo have the compass behind them, it would be two sides of the compass cause they look different.

It's probably nothing significant, just a cool image to color, but you never know.

It points to the thing you want most in the world - Captain Jack Sparrow

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by kroi on Thu 7 Sep - 15:20

vaderito wrote:@kroi Great catch! To compare, this is the compass (top):


so it's the same thing. But assuming both Rey and Kylo have the compass behind them, it would be two sides of the compass cause they look different.

It's probably nothing significant, just a cool image to color, but you never know.

It points to the thing you want most in the world - Captain Jack Sparrow

@vaderito

Yeah, the thing is none of the other characters have the compass design in the coloring book... not even Luke!
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 7 Sep - 15:21

vaderito wrote:I so freakin dig his new look. Such a Prince. H-beating

I hope that they don't dwell much on his piloting skills. It's too generic considering how many characters can fly. It's nice to know but focus on what defines him and makes him unique which is this. Prince, Knight, One Half of the Light and the Dark.
@vaderito

I cant help but think that if Ben Solo was a good pilot, then Han's spending time teaching other kids to fly - as mentioned in Bloodline - must have really hurt Ben.
I wonder if for all his talk that Han would have 'disappointed' Rey as a father, what he really felt was that he'd disappointed Han. Sad
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Thu 7 Sep - 15:34

motherofpearl1 wrote:
vaderito wrote:I so freakin dig his new look. Such a Prince. H-beating

I hope that they don't dwell much on his piloting skills. It's too generic considering how many characters can fly. It's nice to know but focus on what defines him and makes him unique which is this. Prince, Knight, One Half of the Light and the Dark.
@vaderito

I cant help but think that if Ben Solo was a good pilot, then Han's spending time teaching other kids to fly - as mentioned in Bloodline - must have really hurt Ben.
I wonder if for all his talk that Han would have 'disappointed' Rey as a father, what he really felt was that he'd disappointed Han. Sad
@motherofpearl1

I understand flying as an emotional significance but I just don't think it should be too much of an emphasis beyond reminiscence/remorse/a cool action scene. IMO, characters are unique when their singular skill is well defined and piloting is generic in a movie full of pilots and it already is Poe's singular skill so it shouldn't be Kylo's. Likewise, lightsabers and the Force become generic among too many characters who have them (PT), so one has to look for other singular skills to make characters more unique.

@kroi Oh, wow, not even Luke has the compass behind him?
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by kroi on Thu 7 Sep - 15:46

vaderito wrote:

@kroi Oh, wow, not even Luke has the compass behind him?
@vaderito

Nope! Very Happy
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Thu 7 Sep - 15:50

kroi wrote:
vaderito wrote:

@kroi Oh, wow, not even Luke has the compass behind him?
@vaderito

Nope! Very Happy
@kroi

That's because he isn't a bloody cousin! lol!
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Tex on Fri 15 Sep - 19:59

Not sure where to post this, but I've been on vacation for the last two weeks with limited internet access. Can someone catch me up on what's happened. Last I'd heard Trevorrow had been kicked to the curb. What juicy news have I missed?
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by IoJovi on Fri 15 Sep - 20:10

Tex wrote:Not sure where to post this, but I've been on vacation for the last two weeks with limited internet access. Can someone catch me up on what's happened. Last I'd heard Trevorrow had been kicked to the curb. What juicy news have I missed?
@Tex

These past two weeks have literally been amazing.

JJ Abrams is now confirmed to be writing and directing IX.
Rian made a series of tweets spanning over several days that point specifically to Kylo's redemption. No ifs ands and or buts.
Two days ago someone asked him what song he would use to describe Kylo and Rey. It's a John Lennon song that's basically about seeing the pain and tradegy one hides behind a facade. I posted it in the Reylo Playlist if you want to look. The song's title escapes me at the moment but that made me scream to high heaven.

Reviewing the tweets thread is probably going to give you the best recap. I'd start at least 10 pages back as we got some really good ones.

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 15 Sep - 20:21

IoJovi wrote:
Tex wrote:Not sure where to post this, but I've been on vacation for the last two weeks with limited internet access. Can someone catch me up on what's happened. Last I'd heard Trevorrow had been kicked to the curb. What juicy news have I missed?
@Tex

These past two weeks have literally been amazing.

JJ Abrams is now confirmed to be writing and directing IX.
Rian made a series of tweets spanning over several days that point specifically to Kylo's redemption. No ifs ands and or buts.
Two days ago someone asked him what song he would use to describe Kylo and Rey. It's a John Lennon song that's basically about seeing the pain and tradegy one hides behind a facade. I posted it in the Reylo Playlist if you want to look. The song's title escapes me at the moment but that made me scream to high heaven.

Reviewing the tweets thread is probably going to give you the best recap. I'd start at least 10 pages back as we got some really good ones.
@IoJovi

Here's the John Lennon song--"Crippled Inside":


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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Tex on Fri 15 Sep - 20:27

OMG I would be out when some amazing things happen. Shocked  JJ coming back answers my question on how they want to handle Reylo. The original Reylo, our main man is gonna bring the feels. I expect some epic kiss now lol. And Rian posting a Reylo song Cool  H-beating I love my reylo family. May the good times keep rolling.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by RandomObserver on Fri 15 Sep - 20:32

vaderito wrote:
kroi wrote:
vaderito wrote:

@kroi Oh, wow, not even Luke has the compass behind him?
@vaderito

Nope! Very Happy
@kroi

That's because he isn't a bloody cousin! lol!
@vaderito

Right? I'm still amazed people think they're related. From a writer's perspective, that would be very lazy. I'm still pretty sure she's a Kenobi. But I know they're not related. It's just too taboo and obvious. Considering how the whole Luke/Leia thing went down, if they were related, they'd have avoided any sexual tension between them like the plague. If I remember right, wasn't Daisy's initial audition the interrogation scene? That's pretty much a chemistry read right there. I wonder why... Wink
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Tex on Fri 15 Sep - 20:39

RandomObserver wrote:
vaderito wrote:
kroi wrote:
vaderito wrote:

I know somewhere in a heavily secured vault is footage of Daisy and Adam doing a chemistry test together. I just know it! What I would give to see that footage.
@kroi Oh, wow, not even Luke has the compass behind him?
@vaderito

Nope! Very Happy
@kroi

That's because he isn't a bloody cousin! lol!
@vaderito

Right? I'm still amazed people think they're related. From a writer's perspective, that would be very lazy. I'm still pretty sure she's a Kenobi. But I know they're not related. It's just too taboo and obvious. Considering how the whole Luke/Leia thing went down, if they were related, they'd have avoided any sexual tension between them like the plague. If I remember right, wasn't Daisy's initial audition the interrogation scene? That's pretty much a chemistry read right there. I wonder why... Wink
@RandomObserver

Somewhere in a heavily guarded vault is footage of Daisy and Adam doing a chemistry test together. I just know it! What I would give to see this footage.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by RandomObserver on Fri 15 Sep - 20:41

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