ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:12 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:As I recall, and I don't have the pictures to hand, but didn't that tree look scorched on those photographs that appeared in the tabloids? The fire might be extinguished before it or its contents are totally destroyed. *Goes to look for the photos*



ETA - Hmm, I'm not sure now, it just looks old and mossy. I guess it depends on whether it starts out in a better condition than that when Rey first arrives on Ahch-To.
@Mrs Ben Solo

The moss has always made me skeptical of the "Kylo burns down the tree" speculation, although I've tried to keep an open mind. If I had to make a call right now, I'd say that whatever tree was burning was in a flashback or vision, and that it is, in fact, a hut that blows up.

Our Bothan buddy was pretty adamant that Kylo and Rey were having a "conversation" (he even corrected someone who assumed it was an argument), and that Luke doesn't like it, gets mad, and "tries to stop them". That doesn't sound like a situation where Kylo blows up whatever dwelling he and Rey are in. I'll bet that Bothan is correct and that it's Luke who blows it up, or I could see a possibility of it being a First Order attack (knowing from the teaser that the Millennium Falcon will be engaging with TIE fighters at some point).
@ISeeAnIsland

Jason's take on Kylo burning down the tree was just a safe game from his side in a vein of: "The bad guys always do bad things."
And nothing else. I didn't take it for a second for granted. Because there's more than 10 possibilities for setting the tree on fire, you mentioned just a few.

MF vs. Ties: they also could be Kylo's "guards" fighters while he arrives at Anch-To. We also heard a rumor of a ship crash. And an explosion was filmed actually on the lawn in Ireland.


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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by panki on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:22 pm

Most things in this trilogy can be clarified by looking at related media where many answers are seeded....a similar controversy arose in the end of season 2 of Rebels where we see Ezra look as if he were sith eyed, and there was speculation that he would o to the dark side. It was only months later during season 3 that we were told that his eyes were reflecting the red colour of a sith holocron....not that his eyes actually changed colour.



Similarly, the light of the cross-guard lightsaber is reflecting in Kylo's eyes, but his actual eye colour remains brown.....so nothing to worry about. Smile


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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by Birdwoman on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:29 pm

Kylo looks super focused and ready to fight Rey. Unlike in the snow fight, where you could tell he didn't really want to fight her....now he does want his revenge. We will see how long that lasts.... Smile

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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by ZioRen on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:32 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I can't help but notice what looks like another cut just by his hairline above his ear - unless it's just his hair.

Could it be a result of the 'sea monster' fight?
@motherofpearl1

Late to this but I see it too. I thought it was hair but it kind of looks like a stitched gash.
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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by vaderito on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:32 pm

I just want to point out the Left/Right thingy

Luke = left, past (bygone era)

Kylo = right (future, new era)

Rey = middle but body turned to the right (future, new era)


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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by Rogue Rey on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:32 pm

@Birdwoman wrote:Kylo looks super focused and ready to fight Rey. Unlike in the snow fight, where you could tell he didn't really want to fight her....now he does want his revenge. We will see how long that lasts.... Smile
@Birdwoman

My guess about one whole minute!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing Lolilol
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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:32 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I still have this weird feeling Ben was abducted rather than running away....and wouldn't it have been awful if he'd waited for his family to rescue him, only to discover they'd believed he'd turned willingly to the dark side.
He truly would have been sympathetic to Rey's plight then.
@motherofpearl1

The original shooting script for TFA hinted that Ben was kidnapped. I don't know if the backstory changed, but according to that script, Ben was kidnapped, "indoctrinated", and then returned with the KoR to carry out the massacre.

I don't think there's any info out there that debunks this possibility at this point.
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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by DarthRen on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:38 pm

@Birdwoman wrote:Kylo looks super focused and ready to fight Rey. Unlike in the snow fight, where you could tell he didn't really want to fight her....now he does want his revenge. We will see how long that lasts.... Smile
@Birdwoman

It's kinda poetic. If the rumours are true. Kylo looks focused and willing to fight her, Rey might not be. On the other hand at SKB Rey was willing to fight him but Kylo wanted to teach her. I'd bet we'll see Rey talking to him during the fight, much like Kylo did at their snowy fight.
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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by MyOnlyHope on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:43 pm

When I saw the first stills of the Ahch-To tree, I just naturally assumed it was burned hundreds, maybe even thousands, of years prior to Luke's arrival. The manuscript in the teaser is already clearly charred, and the other books on the shelf look like they might be blackened as well.

The first Jedi abandoned their birthplace for some unknown reason. There's some ancient story behind that burned tree that has nothing to do with Luke or Kylo IMO. Chances are the history of the first Jedi wasn't all light and democracy. Again, just all part of this as of yet untold Jedi origin story. Not really worth all the conjecture because we have no chance whatsoever of guessing this kind of thing.


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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by MeadowofAshes on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:43 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:He's full of pain, it's there in his bitterness, in his almost pathetic need for Rey- even in his anger.

This isn't some sulky teenage phase, this is a grown man and someone has hurt him terribly. I wish they'd left the deleted Millennium Falcon  scene in; Kylo's torment was so obvious you could feel it.
@motherofpearl1

I'm glad they left it out for one reason: MF was flying in the TLJ trailer. That means we'll (probably) get a more emotional "Ben on the Falcon" scene. Approves About to C Jumping

@Rogue Rey Are you saying you think Kylo is a one minute man? Very Happy


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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by nemapasara on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:45 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I still have this weird feeling Ben was abducted rather than running away....and wouldn't it have been awful if he'd waited for his family to rescue him, only to discover they'd believed he'd turned willingly to the dark side.
He truly would have been sympathetic to Rey's plight then.
@motherofpearl1

I've had this feeling lately, too. I don't know why, it could be a combination of Ben not falling until he was in his early 20s and Snoke having spent so much time on grooming him that he decided to up the ante? I can see the Jedi temple being burned as a targeted attack orchestrated by Snoke.
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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by snufkin on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:46 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I still have this weird feeling Ben was abducted rather than running away....and wouldn't it have been awful if he'd waited for his family to rescue him, only to discover they'd believed he'd turned willingly to the dark side.
He truly would have been sympathetic to Rey's plight then.
@motherofpearl1

The original shooting script for TFA hinted that Ben was kidnapped. I don't know if the backstory changed, but according to that script, Ben was kidnapped, "indoctrinated", and then returned with the KoR to carry out the massacre.

I don't think there's any info out there that debunks this possibility at this point.
@ISeeAnIsland

I've said it before, but he could easily have a Patty Hearst scenario of being targeted/kidnapped/indoctrinated and then somewhat complicit in future crimes. If you use real world analogies, it's certainly easier to have that scenario to make an audience's view change than saying he's like Bowe Bergdahl or John Walker Lindh
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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:46 pm

*snipping a bunch of stuff to cut down on scrolling*

@SoloSideCousin wrote:

Yes it did look scorched.  I also think that Luke is definitely coming out of the "tree cave" with that last "the Jedi must end" The Searchers shot.

Until something tells me different, I think that Kylo has been after those books all this time.  He might have sold it to Hux and Snoke that he wanted to kill Skywalker, but instead he wanted to knowledge.

Also, my husband and I were talking about the gloved hands near the book page.  He thinks it's Kylo's hand in a flashback.  He thinks this because (1) Rey never seems to wear a proper glove, but instead wears that half-glove thing connected to the armbands ... and Luke has always wore black gloves.  It's not a slam dunk by any means, but it's possible that Ben Solo had a more earth-toned palette at some point, and while wearing beige gloves he found that the book ... an old book that advocated use of both the light and the dark side of the force as a means of achieving balance.  I would think that this kind of theory would be very attractive to someone like Ben Solo who, if all this half-light/half-dark stuff is carried through, would really want to find another way more suited to him because he seems like someone who would be very poorly suited to a traditional Jedi lifestyle.

As a result, Ben could have been very enthusiastic about this find, while Luke would have been completely horrified.  To Luke the dark side is completely abhorrent because of how Obi-Wan and Yoda taught him and also because of how his own father was completely corrupted when he dove into it ... and perhaps most importantly of all, Luke could have some PTSD from his force lightning experience with the emperor.  Add this kind of discovery to maybe some discovery of the Jedi purging emotional forceusers (that would be warped by the experience and become the would-be Sith) and you get pretty good makings for a schism.

I don't know how Snoke would come into it at this point, though I imagine it will have something to do with Snoke giving some lip service to appreciating both sides of the force.  Snoke is still such a mystery.

But if anyone blows up the books, I will be shocked if it's not Luke.  Think about it.  If Luke is acting like the knowledge-hoarding old Jedi (remember part of the reason Anakin lost it was because the Council acted like censors on information), he will want to guard this information and not let it get out.  But if it looks like Kylo is going to get access to it and is going to impart it to Rey, I could see Luke losing it, preferring to destroy it than let it get out. 

Also, remember the old rumors about how Luke was supposed to have become really powerful, but at the same time have really poor force control.  If you think of it that way, Luke's blowing up the tree cave/hut could be a totally reactionary, instantaneous moment of fear.  Think of how Kylo threw Rey into the tree when she tried to shoot him.  I personally think that he never intended to do that.  I think he wanted to freeze her, but then was such an emotional mess that he lost control of his powers.  Luke could be the same.  Luke could be terrified by that information.  Luke could want the Jedi to end, less because it became corrupt later, but because he finds its earliest teachings to be corrupt.  Kylo could actually think the opposite.  He could think the more recent incarnations of the Jedi were terrible, but might think that the early Jedi, the "pre-Jedi purge of the Sith" Jedi were the way to go.

This of course is all speculation, but I do think that the books, which seem to definitely be in a tree, are a very big deal ... and if they are trying to normalize Kylo/Ben to some extent (as indicated by the "makes him look even hotter" scar and Adam Driver's mention of how TLJ emphasizes Kylo's humanity), I just don't see them putting a "burning of the library at Alexandra" on his plate as well.  OTOH, though that would sully Luke's image somewhat, I think he could carry it because he has so much built-in good will and because they will make his fear understandable based on his own personal experiences that everyone watched.

@darthren, @lily snape
@SoloSideCousin

I think you're really onto something here. I've always been skeptical of Kylo wanting the map so that he could kill Luke. Pablo has been very careful to emphasize that it's a map to the first Jedi temple, not directly a map to Luke. I've thought all along that Kylo was after something that was in the temple. That "something" being the books makes a ton of sense. Especially if they contain info on how to integrate both sides of the Force, or if it's just a "the Force is the Force...what matters is how you use it" sort of doctrine. And it makes all the sense in the world that Kylo would want to get his hands on that, and Luke would equally have reasons for not wanting that knowledge to get out, especially while Luke is trying to guide/train impressionable, novice Force users.

I'm also with you that if anyone is going to burn those books, it's going to be Luke. It's possible, but I suspect unlikely, that Kylo was so desperately searching for those books just to destroy them.
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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by Jakku on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:47 pm

Looking at that photo, doesn't it look like a head and shoulders and two outstretched arms?

As in: the tree.
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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by Rogue Rey on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:52 pm

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:He's full of pain, it's there in his bitterness, in his almost pathetic need for Rey- even in his anger.

This isn't some sulky teenage phase, this is a grown man and someone has hurt him terribly. I wish they'd left the deleted Millennium Falcon  scene in; Kylo's torment was so obvious you could feel it.
@motherofpearl1

I'm glad they left it out for one reason: MF was flying in the TLJ trailer. That means we'll (probably) get a more emotional "Ben on the Falcon" scene. Approves About to C Jumping

@Rogue Rey Are you saying you think Kylo is a one minute man? Very Happy
@MeadowofAshes

Lol

Of course not.  I think it will take him all of one minute to have his angry 'you humiliated and hurt me' tantrum before he is asking her out again, I mean teach her begging on his hands and knees Wink


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Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi Trailer(s) - 1

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 3:56 pm

@Rogue Rey wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:Kylo looks super focused and ready to fight Rey.  Unlike in the snow fight, where you could tell he didn't really want to fight her....now he does want his revenge.  We will see how long that lasts.... Smile
@Birdwoman

My guess about one whole minute!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing Lolilol
@Rogue Rey

Yeah, I personally have always doubted the full-on revenge rumor.  He didn't have hate for her at the end and even if Snoke does a big job on him, his self-loathing is probably going to be off the charts.  This is the dude who yelled "harder.''  Now seeing the trailer and poster and BTS photos with his "mournful warrior" look and his personally smashed helmet and the sad look of him on the poster, I doubt it even more now.  For all we know he may even think as far that he deserved it.  But with the addition of the books in the trailer, my belief that he had a mission other than revenge on Luke when he was searching for the "path to Skywalker" has gotten stronger.

This picture tells me that he definitely has a run-in with Rey, but at the same time he doesn't seem to be seething with anger.  Instead, he seems very focused.  To me it says that he will not underestimate her again, he will not be distracted by her again, and he wants to get to those books above all and is definitely not interested in her blocking his way with another face slash.  I don't think he wants to kill her.  I think he wants her to get out of his way because he has bigger fish to fry, namely the books.  But of course, she's going to say something that really throws him. Very Happy

Also, I think it's possible that this picture is not from the Rey fight either.  She's definitely there, because her lightsaber is in his eyes, but with all that fire, I really wonder if he is looking at Luke post-explosion.  You could interpret his very focused look as defensive as well.

Also, if there really is a second red lightsaber in this shot, then adding that to Rey's blue lightsaber, you could actually have three lightsabers, which could mean he and Rey might actually be on the same side and he could be defending her with utter focus.

There are just so many possibilities. Very Happy

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