Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Piper Maru on Thu 27 Apr - 9:27

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
The moment between breaths is the Balance of the Force
Between the life and death
Rest and action
Serenity and passion
Hope and despair

As we have predicted the Balance is something in the middle ground. Between Jedi and Sith. That's how I'am reading it.

@Darth_Awakened

Seriously, this is Reylo af.

And several other quotes there as well:

In our connection to one, all is connected

I perceive, in all things, this truth:
That we are forever bound to the Force
And that the Force forever binds us together

In darkness I follow
the light and find my way
to the beginning
again,
and again
and again

SERIOUSLY. All of this points to (1) connection (emphasis on this word) (2) darkness following the light (3) the Force being responsible for bringing people together.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Thu 27 Apr - 19:03

It sounds an awful close to the "Luminous beings" speech which is played under the Balance section of the trailer and also one of @vaderito's brilliant observations that the whole "feeling the Force" moment between those two opens up (besides the double entendres) a completely new view on the Force. Certainly a way of experiencing it that you'd guess Ben's going to realize he never got from Luke's old school training or whatever DS bootcamp Snoke has been dangling over his head. It's part of the reason why he keeps chasing after Rey.

On a less serious note, I'd be all about the comedy of Rey realizing that the Force has a cruel sense of humor in bringing her into that situation and tying up her destiny with somebody who's no chill or impulse control. We won't be getting classic screwball barbs his parents exchanged because that's not their personalities or their relationship. But he's so unintentionally funny as a bad team player with Hux and trying to boss Rey around (which goes badly for him), that it's going to come out in whatever happens between the two of them.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 27 Apr - 19:08

@snufkin wrote:It sounds an awful close to the "Luminous beings" speech which is played under the Balance section of the trailer and also one of @vaderito's brilliant observations that the whole "feeling the Force" moment between those two opens up (besides the double entendres) a completely new view on the Force. Certainly a way of experiencing it that you'd guess Ben's going to realize he never got from Luke's old school training or whatever DS bootcamp Snoke has been dangling over his head. It's part of the reason why he keeps chasing after Rey.

On a less serious note, I'd be all about the comedy of Rey realizing that the Force has a cruel sense of humor in bringing her into that situation and tying up her destiny with somebody who's no chill or impulse control. We won't be getting classic screwball barbs his parents exchanged because that's not their personalities or their relationship. But he's so unintentionally funny as a bad team player with Hux and trying to boss Rey around (which goes badly for him), that it's going to come out in whatever happens between the two of them.
@snufkin

They don't have the screwball personalities of their parents, but they did have plenty of snark and UST in their scenes. And yeah, I really like the premise of Rey having this unwanted connection with this powerful Force user (who could possibly end up being a better mentor than Luke, if Kylo gets his s*** together), but also who's completely impulsive and allows himself to be ruled by those impulses/emotions.

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by IoJovi on Thu 27 Apr - 19:13

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:It sounds an awful close to the "Luminous beings" speech which is played under the Balance section of the trailer and also one of @vaderito's brilliant observations that the whole "feeling the Force" moment between those two opens up (besides the double entendres) a completely new view on the Force. Certainly a way of experiencing it that you'd guess Ben's going to realize he never got from Luke's old school training or whatever DS bootcamp Snoke has been dangling over his head. It's part of the reason why he keeps chasing after Rey.

On a less serious note, I'd be all about the comedy of Rey realizing that the Force has a cruel sense of humor in bringing her into that situation and tying up her destiny with somebody who's no chill or impulse control. We won't be getting classic screwball barbs his parents exchanged because that's not their personalities or their relationship. But he's so unintentionally funny as a bad team player with Hux and trying to boss Rey around (which goes badly for him), that it's going to come out in whatever happens between the two of them.
@snufkin

They don't have the screwball personalities of their parents, but they did have plenty of snark and UST in their scenes. And yeah, I really like the premise of Rey having this unwanted connection with this powerful Force user (who could possibly end up being a better mentor than Luke, if Kylo gets his s*** together), but also who's completely impulsive and allows himself to be ruled by those impulses/emotions.
@ISeeAnIsland

If you look at the interrogation scene through a Reylo lense, it goes from a dire, serious scene to nothing but comedy. He's so terrible with women that he's perplexed she still wants to kill him after he states her friends *might* be okay, forgetting he's the one who strapped her to a table. And don't forget that underrated moment known as the nerd-off, where he brags about his mix tape collection and having access to the archives of the Empire. And she's soooo trying not to look at him, yet she gets caught staring twice. To which he responds with nearly drooling on her neck.

That's the stuff coming of age romance is made of... Laughing

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Thu 27 Apr - 19:25

@ISeeAnIsland -
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:It sounds an awful close to the "Luminous beings" speech which is played under the Balance section of the trailer and also one of @vaderito's brilliant observations that the whole "feeling the Force" moment between those two opens up (besides the double entendres) a completely new view on the Force. Certainly a way of experiencing it that you'd guess Ben's going to realize he never got from Luke's old school training or whatever DS bootcamp Snoke has been dangling over his head. It's part of the reason why he keeps chasing after Rey.

On a less serious note, I'd be all about the comedy of Rey realizing that the Force has a cruel sense of humor in bringing her into that situation and tying up her destiny with somebody who's no chill or impulse control. We won't be getting classic screwball barbs his parents exchanged because that's not their personalities or their relationship. But he's so unintentionally funny as a bad team player with Hux and trying to boss Rey around (which goes badly for him), that it's going to come out in whatever happens between the two of them.
@snufkin

They don't have the screwball personalities of their parents, but they did have plenty of snark and UST in their scenes. And yeah, I really like the premise of Rey having this unwanted connection with this powerful Force user (who could possibly end up being a better mentor than Luke, if Kylo gets his s*** together), but also who's completely impulsive and allows himself to be ruled by those impulses/emotions.


@ISeeAnIsland - Snark and UST for sure. I do think like his parents' interactions in the first movie, underneath the bluster, he very much cares what she thinks about him and it bothers him that she's not impressed. On her side, she may be freaked out but she's not intimidated after a lifetime of negotiating/outwitting the lowlifes on Jakku. And that could (should) lead to just the right amount of comedy between the two of them if they were just allowed to spend time together and have to work together. That holds more promise for her character than the further adventures of the Beautiful Friendship Gang.

@iojovi - not for nothing his own father precedes that scene with the line about how women always figure out the truth. Rey's got your # Ben. Or even the let me be your teacher offer, @gemini had the comment that the beat after he blurts out that offer and looks at her, he looks like a teenanger who just asked his crush to the school dance.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Darth Dementor on Fri 28 Apr - 1:54

The 3:54 mark hits on right on the head about Kylo's scar and why it was moved.  Because if it was ugly and horrid it would say he's moving further to the dark side.   It's not that bad looking because there is still good in Ben and he is moving back to the light.  I loved how he contrasted Ben's scar to Siths.  They became deformed to reflect how twisted they were on the inside; taking their scars as a rite of passage.  Solos is nowhere nearly as bad because that is not his path.  Plus if it was really grotesque he would hold a grudge and seek vengeance.  Pretty much staying stagnant, as a character.  


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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 28 Apr - 5:19

@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:It sounds an awful close to the "Luminous beings" speech which is played under the Balance section of the trailer and also one of @vaderito's brilliant observations that the whole "feeling the Force" moment between those two opens up (besides the double entendres) a completely new view on the Force. Certainly a way of experiencing it that you'd guess Ben's going to realize he never got from Luke's old school training or whatever DS bootcamp Snoke has been dangling over his head. It's part of the reason why he keeps chasing after Rey.

On a less serious note, I'd be all about the comedy of Rey realizing that the Force has a cruel sense of humor in bringing her into that situation and tying up her destiny with somebody who's no chill or impulse control. We won't be getting classic screwball barbs his parents exchanged because that's not their personalities or their relationship. But he's so unintentionally funny as a bad team player with Hux and trying to boss Rey around (which goes badly for him), that it's going to come out in whatever happens between the two of them.
@snufkin

They don't have the screwball personalities of their parents, but they did have plenty of snark and UST in their scenes. And yeah, I really like the premise of Rey having this unwanted connection with this powerful Force user (who could possibly end up being a better mentor than Luke, if Kylo gets his s*** together), but also who's completely impulsive and allows himself to be ruled by those impulses/emotions.
@ISeeAnIsland

If you look at the interrogation scene through a Reylo lense, it goes from a dire, serious scene to nothing but comedy. He's so terrible with women that he's perplexed she still wants to kill him after he states her friends *might* be okay, forgetting he's the one who strapped her to a table. And don't forget that underrated moment known as the nerd-off, where he brags about his mix tape collection and having access to the archives of the Empire. And she's soooo trying not to look at him, yet she gets caught staring twice. To which he responds with nearly drooling on her neck.

That's the stuff coming of age romance is made of... Laughing
@IoJovi

He's definitely a virgin! Surprised
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Lily Snape on Fri 28 Apr - 6:00

@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:It sounds an awful close to the "Luminous beings" speech which is played under the Balance section of the trailer and also one of @vaderito's brilliant observations that the whole "feeling the Force" moment between those two opens up (besides the double entendres) a completely new view on the Force. Certainly a way of experiencing it that you'd guess Ben's going to realize he never got from Luke's old school training or whatever DS bootcamp Snoke has been dangling over his head. It's part of the reason why he keeps chasing after Rey.

On a less serious note, I'd be all about the comedy of Rey realizing that the Force has a cruel sense of humor in bringing her into that situation and tying up her destiny with somebody who's no chill or impulse control. We won't be getting classic screwball barbs his parents exchanged because that's not their personalities or their relationship. But he's so unintentionally funny as a bad team player with Hux and trying to boss Rey around (which goes badly for him), that it's going to come out in whatever happens between the two of them.
@snufkin

They don't have the screwball personalities of their parents, but they did have plenty of snark and UST in their scenes. And yeah, I really like the premise of Rey having this unwanted connection with this powerful Force user (who could possibly end up being a better mentor than Luke, if Kylo gets his s*** together), but also who's completely impulsive and allows himself to be ruled by those impulses/emotions.
@ISeeAnIsland

If you look at the interrogation scene through a Reylo lense, it goes from a dire, serious scene to nothing but comedy. He's so terrible with women that he's perplexed she still wants to kill him after he states her friends *might* be okay, forgetting he's the one who strapped her to a table. And don't forget that underrated moment known as the nerd-off, where he brags about his mix tape collection and having access to the archives of the Empire. And she's soooo trying not to look at him, yet she gets caught staring twice. To which he responds with nearly drooling on her neck.

That's the stuff coming of age romance is made of... Laughing
@IoJovi

Have you seen the TFA Bad Lip Reading? When Finn and Rey hug and reunite on Starkiller Base (while Han is off discovering blouses on sale in the gift shop), Finn asks, "Why is your neck wet?" and Rey replies, "I don't want to relive it." Smile
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Lily Snape on Fri 28 Apr - 6:46

I'm sure someone has posted this, but there was a long-running and very civil discussion of Reylo over on the forums at Star Wars News Net-- I'd be surprised if some of the people in this forum aren't over there too, actually, given the degree of detail and the civility of the conversation. It seems to have ended a couple of months ago-- just posting it for your enjoyment. Smile

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/reylo-potential-evidence-for-against.10597/
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by MoonFyre on Fri 28 Apr - 8:24

@Darth Dementor wrote:The 3:54 mark hits on right on the head about Kylo's scar and why it was moved.  Because if it was ugly and horrid it would say he's moving further to the dark side.   It's not that bad looking because there is still good in Ben and he is moving back to the light.  I loved how he contrasted Ben's scar to Siths.  They became deformed to reflect how twisted they were on the inside; taking their scars as a rite of passage.  Solos is nowhere nearly as bad because that is not his path.  Plus if it was really grotesque he would hold a grudge and seek vengeance.  Pretty much staying stagnant, as a character.  

@Darth Dementor

Several fans are also taking notice of Kylo starting to resemble Anakin more and less Darth Vader, which is exactly the point. He's Anakin in reverse.

I suspect that the people who are still furious about the scar change are the ones who wanted to see Kylo turning more and more grotesque inside and out. They complained about TFA being a copy of A New Hope and still they want Kylo to follow the same path as Vader. If he simply dies evil after all the build up and conflict he's been given, what's the story there? They wouldn't waste time showing all his pain and turmoil in that case. It also violates the true meaning of Star Wars, which is about compassion and loving people. According to George Lucas, “Love people. That's basically all ‘Star Wars’ is.”
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 28 Apr - 10:28

@MoonFyre wrote:
@Darth Dementor wrote:The 3:54 mark hits on right on the head about Kylo's scar and why it was moved.  Because if it was ugly and horrid it would say he's moving further to the dark side.   It's not that bad looking because there is still good in Ben and he is moving back to the light.  I loved how he contrasted Ben's scar to Siths.  They became deformed to reflect how twisted they were on the inside; taking their scars as a rite of passage.  Solos is nowhere nearly as bad because that is not his path.  Plus if it was really grotesque he would hold a grudge and seek vengeance.  Pretty much staying stagnant, as a character.  

@Darth Dementor

Several fans are also taking notice of Kylo starting to resemble Anakin more and less Darth Vader, which is exactly the point. He's Anakin in reverse.

I suspect that the people who are still furious about the scar change are the ones who wanted to see Kylo turning more and more grotesque inside and out. They complained about TFA being a copy of A New Hope and still they want Kylo to follow the same path as Vader. If he simply dies evil after all the build up and conflict he's been given, what's the story there? They wouldn't waste time showing all his pain and turmoil in that case. It also violates the true meaning of Star Wars, which is about compassion and loving people. According to George Lucas, “Love people. That's basically all ‘Star Wars’ is.”
@MoonFyre

Actually, I think he looks gorgeous on the promo pic; and the scar there is in the original position.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 30 Apr - 7:58

I've just had an alarming thought....
We all assume Kylo's right arm is fine...but I've noticed in'Battlefront' and the trailer he's wearing gloves. So...we don't know if his arm is mechanical or not! affraid
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Helix on Sun 30 Apr - 8:10

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I've just had an alarming thought....
We all assume Kylo's right arm is fine...but I've noticed in'Battlefront' and the trailer he's wearing gloves. So...we don't know if his arm is mechanical or not! affraid
@motherofpearl1

The gloves are probably just his fashion choice. What's more Dark Side than black gloves? Razz
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by SkyStar on Sun 30 Apr - 8:33

@Helix wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I've just had an alarming thought....
We all assume Kylo's right arm is fine...but I've noticed in'Battlefront' and the trailer he's wearing gloves. So...we don't know if his arm is mechanical or not! affraid
@motherofpearl1

The gloves are probably just his fashion choice. What's more Dark Side than black gloves? Razz
@Helix

the gloves ar so giallo it hurts - anonymous and symbolizing horror. I guess they are coming off when Kylo drops another layer of his personality and reveals more of a unique Ben Solo character.

I think if they wanted to do something to his hand it would be quite clear from TFA, similar to Finn and his mechanical pelvis, lol.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Helix on Sun 30 Apr - 8:49

@SkyStar wrote:
@Helix wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I've just had an alarming thought....
We all assume Kylo's right arm is fine...but I've noticed in'Battlefront' and the trailer he's wearing gloves. So...we don't know if his arm is mechanical or not! affraid
@motherofpearl1

The gloves are probably just his fashion choice. What's more Dark Side than black gloves? Razz
@Helix

the gloves ar so giallo it hurts - anonymous and symbolizing horror. I guess they are coming off when Kylo drops another layer of his personality and reveals more of a unique Ben Solo character.

I think if they wanted to do something to his hand it would be quite clear from TFA, similar to Finn and his mechanical pelvis, lol.
@SkyStar

Very true, often times in giallo you just see the killer's black gloved hands until the end. They're a sort of faceless evil.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 30 Apr - 9:02

He can keep the gloves on, just lose the shirt!
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by EchoBase on Sun 30 Apr - 11:50

Random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon: so let's assume Kylo is Anakin in reverse. It took about 1 1/2 films to turn Anakin to the dark side, so why is it so unlikely that it will also take that same amount of time to turn Kylo to the light? Moreover Anakin's catalyst to turn dark was the death of his mother in the second installment, so I'm sure Kylo will have his key moment in TLJ.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Sun 30 Apr - 17:00

Lessons from the Screenplay finally tackles a Star Wars related topic and it's an excellent breakdown of Rey versus Jyn. More specifically it's the "show versus tell" line you hear about Kasdan stressing during the writing of the story. Which is personally why I like TFA much better, it takes the time to show who Rey and Finn are for their introductions, versus the ongoing exposition at the beginning of R1 that keeps beating you ever the head with "bad things happened to Jyn." It also reminded me of how much better Cassian's introduction was, you knew more about who he was based on offing his informant closed in with far less screen time than Jyn's intro.



Do think we'll get more of this route in the next movie & writing being done by Rian Johnson w/Carrie Fisher's editing. Especially for whatever happened with Luke & Ben, not to mention the Ache-to side of things. Also for those three characters, we'll likely see more about "the lie a character tells themselves," which we know already is huge for Rey. He's a little off the mark about how it has no consequence beyond her telling people she needs to get back to Jakku, she's going to have a bit of breakdown in the next film now that nothing's keeping her from the equally ugly possibilities that either her parents abandoned her or that they were killed. And we can also guess a little at the lies for Luke (heroic martyred father versus complicated reality of somebody the rest of society considers a pariah) and for Ben (the type of masculinity/hero he has to live up to, and that Snoke has saved him).


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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 30 Apr - 17:00

@EchoBase wrote:Random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon: so let's assume Kylo is Anakin in reverse. It took about 1 1/2 films to turn Anakin to the dark side, so why is it so unlikely that it will also take that same amount of time to turn Kylo to the light? Moreover Anakin's catalyst to turn dark was the death of his mother in the second installment, so I'm sure Kylo will have his key moment in TLJ.
@EchoBase

I've thought a lot about this, too. It's part of why I think we'll start to see changes with Kylo starting fairly early into his stay on Ahch-To.

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by IoJovi on Sun 30 Apr - 18:30

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon: so let's assume Kylo is Anakin in reverse. It took about 1 1/2 films to turn Anakin to the dark side, so why is it so unlikely that it will also take that same amount of time to turn Kylo to the light? Moreover Anakin's catalyst to turn dark was the death of his mother in the second installment, so I'm sure Kylo will have his key moment in TLJ.
@EchoBase

I've thought a lot about this, too. It's part of why I think we'll start to see changes with Kylo starting fairly early into his stay on Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

It would line up as well with Kylo's aesthetic that's being marketed now. He most definitely does NOT look like some one dimensional villain. I think the best word to describe him would be "lost". It's also interesting they're keeping with TFA had already put in place. Rey looks very much like a normal girl (albeit a pretty one), where as Kylo, even though he's covered from head to toe, is sexed up to the 9th degree.

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 30 Apr - 21:22

@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon: so let's assume Kylo is Anakin in reverse. It took about 1 1/2 films to turn Anakin to the dark side, so why is it so unlikely that it will also take that same amount of time to turn Kylo to the light? Moreover Anakin's catalyst to turn dark was the death of his mother in the second installment, so I'm sure Kylo will have his key moment in TLJ.
@EchoBase

I've thought a lot about this, too. It's part of why I think we'll start to see changes with Kylo starting fairly early into his stay on Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

It would line up as well with Kylo's aesthetic that's being marketed now. He most definitely does NOT look like some one dimensional villain. I think the best word to describe him would be "lost". It's also interesting they're keeping with TFA had already put in place. Rey looks very much like a normal girl (albeit a pretty one), where as Kylo, even though he's covered from head to toe, is sexed up to the 9th degree.
@IoJovi

The marketing around Kylo that we've seen so far has me really wondering about a couple of things:

* Is the "lost prince" vibe that they seem to be emphasizing a matter of course correction marketing for the huge portion of the GA that seemed to miss the boat with TFA?
* Are we looking at Kylo's redemption starting way earlier than most of us thought likely? Given the smashed mask and entirely maskless promo shots we've seen, is it possible that he doesn't wear the mask at all in TLJ? While I'm still expecting him to be mad AF at the beginning of TLJ, I am also really starting to doubt how far into the movie that's going to last.

I'm also wondering if we saw the movie in TFA that JJ, etc, were expecting most of the audience to see all along? I'm really starting to think that they were expecting most of the audience to come out of TFA asking "How did Ben Solo fall? Can he be redeemed? WTF is up between him and Rey?" rather than most people coming out asking "Who are Rey's parents? Is she Luke's kid?"

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by IoJovi on Sun 30 Apr - 21:47

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon: so let's assume Kylo is Anakin in reverse. It took about 1 1/2 films to turn Anakin to the dark side, so why is it so unlikely that it will also take that same amount of time to turn Kylo to the light? Moreover Anakin's catalyst to turn dark was the death of his mother in the second installment, so I'm sure Kylo will have his key moment in TLJ.
@EchoBase

I've thought a lot about this, too. It's part of why I think we'll start to see changes with Kylo starting fairly early into his stay on Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

It would line up as well with Kylo's aesthetic that's being marketed now.  He most definitely does NOT look like some one dimensional villain.  I think the best word to describe him would be "lost".  It's also interesting they're keeping with TFA had already put in place.  Rey looks very much like a normal girl (albeit a pretty one), where as Kylo, even though he's covered from head to toe, is sexed up to the 9th degree.  
@IoJovi

The marketing around Kylo that we've seen so far has me really wondering about a couple of things:

* Is the "lost prince" vibe that they seem to be emphasizing a matter of course correction marketing for the huge portion of the GA that seemed to miss the boat with TFA?
* Are we looking at Kylo's redemption starting way earlier than most of us thought likely? Given the smashed mask and entirely maskless promo shots we've seen, is it possible that he doesn't wear the mask at all in TLJ? While I'm still expecting him to be mad AF at the beginning of TLJ, I am also really starting to doubt how far into the movie that's going to last.

I'm also wondering if we saw the movie in TFA that JJ, etc, were expecting most of the audience to see all along?  I'm really starting to think that they were expecting most of the audience to come out of TFA asking "How did Ben Solo fall? Can he be redeemed? WTF is up between him and Rey?" rather than most people coming out asking "Who are Rey's parents? Is she Luke's kid?"
@ISeeAnIsland

That's​a fantastic question.  This is just my personal experience I'm sharing, but I was pretty shocked at how many people came out of TFA thinking Rey and Kylo were related, to the point where it was already a canon, undisputable fact.  

I know I've said this before, but I never questioned what I saw.  I know that no words were spoken when Ren and Rey were "finding the Force" after he offers to be her teacher, but the camera angles used told me these two had a destiny to share, and they definitely weren't related.  The sexual undertones were obvious.  Following that, you have them then basically staring each other down across that cliff in an intense yet non threatening or violent way, and the point is driven home.  

By process of elimination, you as the audience should know she's not Luke's kid.  

Yet so many people missed this, and I think Lucasfilm was surprised as well.  Then came the Reywalker wreckage from the team.  Daisy stating it should be obvious she's not Han and Leia's kid made me go, yes it is obvious isn't it!!!  Maybe it's because I grew up on soaps and am able to recognize certain tropes, but you shouldn't need a literary degree to recognize these things.

I do wonder if Kylo's marketing isn't a way of correcting past mistakes, and clearing up JJ's mystery box, as you said.  At first I thought maybe TPTB were going after that I Am Your Father moment as a shocking reveal of the true relationship between the antagonist and the protagonist.  Now I wonder if Lucasfilm was banking on TFA was clearer than it was to the most of the audience.


Last edited by IoJovi on Sun 30 Apr - 21:48; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 30 Apr - 21:48

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon: so let's assume Kylo is Anakin in reverse. It took about 1 1/2 films to turn Anakin to the dark side, so why is it so unlikely that it will also take that same amount of time to turn Kylo to the light? Moreover Anakin's catalyst to turn dark was the death of his mother in the second installment, so I'm sure Kylo will have his key moment in TLJ.
@EchoBase

I've thought a lot about this, too. It's part of why I think we'll start to see changes with Kylo starting fairly early into his stay on Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

It would line up as well with Kylo's aesthetic that's being marketed now.  He most definitely does NOT look like some one dimensional villain.  I think the best word to describe him would be "lost".  It's also interesting they're keeping with TFA had already put in place.  Rey looks very much like a normal girl (albeit a pretty one), where as Kylo, even though he's covered from head to toe, is sexed up to the 9th degree.  
@IoJovi

The marketing around Kylo that we've seen so far has me really wondering about a couple of things:

* Is the "lost prince" vibe that they seem to be emphasizing a matter of course correction marketing for the huge portion of the GA that seemed to miss the boat with TFA?
* Are we looking at Kylo's redemption starting way earlier than most of us thought likely? Given the smashed mask and entirely maskless promo shots we've seen, is it possible that he doesn't wear the mask at all in TLJ? While I'm still expecting him to be mad AF at the beginning of TLJ, I am also really starting to doubt how far into the movie that's going to last.

I'm also wondering if we saw the movie in TFA that JJ, etc, were expecting most of the audience to see all along?  I'm really starting to think that they were expecting most of the audience to come out of TFA asking "How did Ben Solo fall? Can he be redeemed? WTF is up between him and Rey?" rather than most people coming out asking "Who are Rey's parents? Is she Luke's kid?"
@ISeeAnIsland

I've actually always been doubtful of him being full of rage at her when he saw her again.  He wasn't full of rage at the end of TFA when his emotions were totally out of control.  Also, Snoke has been proven a liar.  Killing Han weakened him.  The Supreme Leader is now not all wise.  Also, he is so full of self-loathing that I can see going through a lot more self-hating behavior than actual rage at her.  Of course, if Snoke tortures him into being some kind of killing machine, then that will be that, and then the second he sees her or she says something crucial the spell will be broken.

But with the way he's being marketed, put as almost like a partner to Rey in that game, looking all weary and melancholy, looking so beautiful and sad and subordinate to Luke, all the while Luke looks sinister and she is getting the power to scramble minds, I really think that they are going to move him out of the villain category by the end of the movie.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 30 Apr - 22:16

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon: so let's assume Kylo is Anakin in reverse. It took about 1 1/2 films to turn Anakin to the dark side, so why is it so unlikely that it will also take that same amount of time to turn Kylo to the light? Moreover Anakin's catalyst to turn dark was the death of his mother in the second installment, so I'm sure Kylo will have his key moment in TLJ.
@EchoBase

I've thought a lot about this, too. It's part of why I think we'll start to see changes with Kylo starting fairly early into his stay on Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

It would line up as well with Kylo's aesthetic that's being marketed now.  He most definitely does NOT look like some one dimensional villain.  I think the best word to describe him would be "lost".  It's also interesting they're keeping with TFA had already put in place.  Rey looks very much like a normal girl (albeit a pretty one), where as Kylo, even though he's covered from head to toe, is sexed up to the 9th degree.  
@IoJovi

The marketing around Kylo that we've seen so far has me really wondering about a couple of things:

* Is the "lost prince" vibe that they seem to be emphasizing a matter of course correction marketing for the huge portion of the GA that seemed to miss the boat with TFA?
* Are we looking at Kylo's redemption starting way earlier than most of us thought likely? Given the smashed mask and entirely maskless promo shots we've seen, is it possible that he doesn't wear the mask at all in TLJ? While I'm still expecting him to be mad AF at the beginning of TLJ, I am also really starting to doubt how far into the movie that's going to last.

I'm also wondering if we saw the movie in TFA that JJ, etc, were expecting most of the audience to see all along?  I'm really starting to think that they were expecting most of the audience to come out of TFA asking "How did Ben Solo fall? Can he be redeemed? WTF is up between him and Rey?" rather than most people coming out asking "Who are Rey's parents? Is she Luke's kid?"
@ISeeAnIsland

I've actually always been doubtful of him being full of rage at her when he saw her again.  He wasn't full of rage at the end of TFA when his emotions were totally out of control.  Also, Snoke has been proven a liar.  Killing Han weakened him.  The Supreme Leader is now not all wise.  Also, he is so full of self-loathing that I can see going through a lot more self-hating behavior than actual rage at her.  Of course, if Snoke tortures him into being some kind of killing machine, then that will be that, and then the second he sees her or she says something crucial the spell will be broken.

But with the way he's being marketed, put as almost like a partner to Rey in that game, looking all weary and melancholy, looking so beautiful and sad and subordinate to Luke, all the while Luke looks sinister and she is getting the power to scramble minds, I really think that they are going to move him out of the villain category by the end of the movie.
@SoloSideCousin

I pretty firmly believe that Kylo will be out of the "villain category" by the end of TLJ, too. (I'd always thought that...but the recent marketing stuff has made me much more confident in that belief.) I think it's likely that he'll be a wildcard...or if the FO manages to capture Rey and/or hurts or kills his mother, there's a good chance that he'll be turned against the FO (although probably not likely fully siding with the Resistance).

FWIW, I think that if Kylo is no longer a villain, it also clears the path for a Reylo kiss before the end of TLJ. And I'm going to guess that the state of Rey and Kylo's relationship is going to be one of cliffhangers going into IX.

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 30 Apr - 22:20

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon: so let's assume Kylo is Anakin in reverse. It took about 1 1/2 films to turn Anakin to the dark side, so why is it so unlikely that it will also take that same amount of time to turn Kylo to the light? Moreover Anakin's catalyst to turn dark was the death of his mother in the second installment, so I'm sure Kylo will have his key moment in TLJ.
@EchoBase

I've thought a lot about this, too. It's part of why I think we'll start to see changes with Kylo starting fairly early into his stay on Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

It would line up as well with Kylo's aesthetic that's being marketed now. He most definitely does NOT look like some one dimensional villain. I think the best word to describe him would be "lost". It's also interesting they're keeping with TFA had already put in place. Rey looks very much like a normal girl (albeit a pretty one), where as Kylo, even though he's covered from head to toe, is sexed up to the 9th degree.
@IoJovi

The marketing around Kylo that we've seen so far has me really wondering about a couple of things:

* Is the "lost prince" vibe that they seem to be emphasizing a matter of course correction marketing for the huge portion of the GA that seemed to miss the boat with TFA?
* Are we looking at Kylo's redemption starting way earlier than most of us thought likely? Given the smashed mask and entirely maskless promo shots we've seen, is it possible that he doesn't wear the mask at all in TLJ? While I'm still expecting him to be mad AF at the beginning of TLJ, I am also really starting to doubt how far into the movie that's going to last.

I'm also wondering if we saw the movie in TFA that JJ, etc, were expecting most of the audience to see all along? I'm really starting to think that they were expecting most of the audience to come out of TFA asking "How did Ben Solo fall? Can he be redeemed? WTF is up between him and Rey?" rather than most people coming out asking "Who are Rey's parents? Is she Luke's kid?"
@ISeeAnIsland

This. It's something I have had in my mind for some time now.
I think that JJ and co. were very surprised by the outcome: the Reylation as the biggest mystery of TFA.

That's why JJ slipped his debunk at the convention - which I'am sure he wouldn't had done it if the parentage had been such a great mystery.
That's why PH (a LF employee) used happily every chance to "snark" his debunk.
When asked about the Jedi massacre PH always replied with: there's more story to tell or something similar. That was never the case with the Reywalker i.e. the story is told.

I think the Reylation is the product of somehow vague Maz's words, TFA rehashing (if TFA is a rehash, than everything is rehash), and people believing SW is about the lineage.

I have a very good friend, from my GOT circles, an intelligent guy who's capable of analytical thinking and he still see SW as the lineage thing. Although he's not so deep in SW, as we are, he doesn't think Rey is Skywalker (he thinks it would look too obvious), but still insists on the lineage as one of the themes.
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