Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 5:16 pm

@Sacrebleu wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Sacrebleu wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:We ran one on one of our dogs, and his came back with fairly reasonable results (we were right in guessing ahead of time that he had a lot of Jack Russell in him), except that it also said that he's 12.5% Pomeranian. We just don't see any Pomeranian breed characteristics in him. (Cue jokes about taking a Pomeranian bowling...)
@ISeeAnIsland

I did the DNA test on my dog and it came back 50% Jack Russell (expected) and 25% Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (totally unexpected).  We can't see any Cavalier King Charles in him at all.  The remaining 25% was such a mixture they could only venture some guesses as to that.
@Sacrebleu

I had my dog tested back in 2010. We always believed he was half beagle (from the owner who put him over the counter at the shelter) and like half Lab. He always looked like an older white/cream retriever puppy his entire life. (He was a really beautiful dog). He was dying,  so I decided to get it done ... and it was pretty unhelpful. Absolutely no beagle nor retriever turned up. In fact, they could only identify 15% of him. 10% Collie and 5% Basenji, which was nuts because Basenjis come from a really narrow line. I remember the document saying that he was an "extremely mixed dog", lol. And people say mutts aren't good-looking,  lol.

But honestly, I think the technology has probably really advanced since then because he had a ton of beagle/retriever/pointer type of traits and yet nothing like that came up. I want to test our current dog, but my husband doesn't want to because based on our late dog's results he thinks those tests are a scam. However, from the experiences I am hearing here, it sounds like doggie.DNA testing has improved over the past 7 years.
@SoloSideCousin

My cousin is a vet at a university.  He told me at the time I had it done that it was not infallible, but that the testing had improved since its early days.  A blood test would be more accurate and could be done at his university, but it would cost about $100 and I had already spent $60 on the saliva one, so I put it on the back burner.  If I understand it correctly, the more mixed the dog is the more difficult it is to pinpoint specific breeds.  For the 25% of my dog that they were uncertain about, one of the strains they thought was present was a French mastiff, or Dogue de Bordeaux, like the dog in the film Turner and Hooch.

My dog, who weighs 17 lb.



French mastiff.  Yeah, no.

@Sacrebleu

Yeah, though I think he had a blood test, it was seven years ago.  I imagine the Doggie DNA thing was in its infancy then ... also her could have really been an "extremely mixed" pup as well. Very Happy

Actually it's so funny, but when I first looked at your post, the page was such that I only saw the white dog in your picture, but at the same time I also could see the word "mastiff", and I was like "No way!!!! That test was wrong!"  But then I scrolled and saw your actual dog and I was like, "Well ... maybe he got his coloring from the mastiff" because in comparison with the white dog, your dog being part mastiff didn't seem so impossible. LOL, first impressions. Very Happy
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Sacrebleu on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 5:25 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:Yeah, though I think he had a blood test, it was seven years ago.  I imagine the Doggie DNA thing was in its infancy then ... also her could have really been an "extremely mixed" pup as well. Very Happy

Actually it's so funny, but when I first looked at your post, the page was such that I only saw the white dog in your picture, but at the same time I also could see the word "mastiff", and I was like "No way!!!! That test was wrong!"  But then I scrolled and saw your actual dog and I was like, "Well ... maybe he got his coloring from the mastiff" because in comparison with the white dog, your dog being part mastiff didn't seem so impossible. LOL, first impressions. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

True enough.  I was so gobsmacked by the differences that I didn't even notice the similarity in coloring.  We sent off the test thinking Dachshund for sure and likely Jack Russell.  So many people who meet my dog instantly think Dachshund.  Jack Russell was spot on, but apparently not a drop of Dachshund.  My cousin said we all saw that because his legs are short and in proportion his body looks long, and to everybody's eyes that says "Dachshund".  But actually my dog has a type of canine chondrodystrophy which is responsible for his short legs, as evidenced by his bowed right front leg.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 5:30 pm

@Sacrebleu wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:Yeah, though I think he had a blood test, it was seven years ago.  I imagine the Doggie DNA thing was in its infancy then ... also her could have really been an "extremely mixed" pup as well. Very Happy

Actually it's so funny, but when I first looked at your post, the page was such that I only saw the white dog in your picture, but at the same time I also could see the word "mastiff", and I was like "No way!!!! That test was wrong!"  But then I scrolled and saw your actual dog and I was like, "Well ... maybe he got his coloring from the mastiff" because in comparison with the white dog, your dog being part mastiff didn't seem so impossible. LOL, first impressions. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

True enough.  I was so gobsmacked by the differences that I didn't even notice the similarity in coloring.  We sent off the test thinking Dachshund for sure and likely Jack Russell.  So many people who meet my dog instantly think Dachshund.  Jack Russell was spot on, but apparently not a drop of Dachshund.  My cousin said we all saw that because his legs are short and in proportion his body looks long, and to everybody's eyes that says "Dachshund".  But actually my dog has a type of canine chondrodystrophy which is responsible for his short legs, as evidenced by his bowed right front leg.
@Sacrebleu

Awww, poor pup.  I have never heard of that condition, but I hope it doesn't give him too much trouble. :-(
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Sacrebleu on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 5:32 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Sacrebleu wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:Yeah, though I think he had a blood test, it was seven years ago.  I imagine the Doggie DNA thing was in its infancy then ... also her could have really been an "extremely mixed" pup as well. Very Happy

Actually it's so funny, but when I first looked at your post, the page was such that I only saw the white dog in your picture, but at the same time I also could see the word "mastiff", and I was like "No way!!!! That test was wrong!"  But then I scrolled and saw your actual dog and I was like, "Well ... maybe he got his coloring from the mastiff" because in comparison with the white dog, your dog being part mastiff didn't seem so impossible. LOL, first impressions. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

True enough.  I was so gobsmacked by the differences that I didn't even notice the similarity in coloring.  We sent off the test thinking Dachshund for sure and likely Jack Russell.  So many people who meet my dog instantly think Dachshund.  Jack Russell was spot on, but apparently not a drop of Dachshund.  My cousin said we all saw that because his legs are short and in proportion his body looks long, and to everybody's eyes that says "Dachshund".  But actually my dog has a type of canine chondrodystrophy which is responsible for his short legs, as evidenced by his bowed right front leg.
@Sacrebleu

Awww, poor pup.  I have never heard of that condition, but I hope it doesn't give him too much trouble. :-(
@SoloSideCousin

It hasn't slowed him down yet.  He's a whirlwind. H-beating
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 12:14 am

Good for him!
One of my cats is half Oriental, so she's black and white with a Siamese type face. Her two daughters are very different; one looks more domestic but she has large ears and is white with some black,the other is jet black and more like her mum in build.

One of my other cats has a Siamese look to his face and build; I also have his mother and two siblings and they look completely different! Recently adopted their father and the strange thing is, he has been 'around' since I first saw my half Oriental as a stray - they have similar markings, similar eye colour and both suffer from the same 'dry eyes' condition yet he very obviously has no Oriental in him. I think they may be half siblings.

Weird world.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Lily Snape on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 1:05 am

QMeadowofAshes wrote:
@Lily Snape wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Also because the topic of Austen comes up here often, it's her sort of bicentenniel today. At least of her death. And I think as with the male tears in the comments section for Forces of Destiny, the freak out and death threats over putting her on the £10 note (with a Caroline Bingley quote, no less!) is the same phenomena. But because it's a big day, I thought the nerds here would appreciate the Atlantic's special section of Austenpalooza.
@snufkin

I'm delighted-- about time, like putting Harriet Tubman in Andrew Jackson's place in the U.S.  I have the good fortune to be surrounded by guys (husband and sons) who are happy to see women (in addition, of course, to QE2 and the infrequently seen Susan B. Anthony dollar) finally being put on currency. My husband is a history teacher and is not a fan of Andrew Jackson, so that helps-- he's also the guy who as been known to say, "The longer I live, the more I think Thomas Jefferson is a jackass."  Smile I guess if you teach this stuff for long enough, you develop opinions.
@Lily Snape My dad is a retired history teacher, and we're from Oklahoma, aka former Indian Territory. Almost everyone who is black or white in any small town also has some amount of native blood. Andrew Jackson was NOT popular in our household or in any classroom I sat in.
@MeadowofAshes

@snufkin

The ironic thing is that my husband's first US-born relative back in the 1850's? was named after Andrew Jackson, and the two names keep making their way down the family line.  My husband's middle name is Andrew, and there are plenty of Jacksons also.  We gave our boys Irish first names with middle names after their grandfathers and, when we had a third boy and had run out of grandfathers, he got the name of an old family friend who was dear to us, which also happened to be the name of my luckless great-grandfather who died at age 25 on the first day of the Battle of the Somme.  The other male relatives bearing my husband's last name don't seem to want kids, and my boys are not fans of AJ, so I think there are no more Andrews or Jacksons.

I haven't done the DNA testing because I'm from Ireland (as in, born there, and my relatives in Ireland can trace our relatives back to when Irish Catholics under British colonial rule became official humans in the early 1800s and were finally permitted to document things.). Since I'm from the North, there will be some Scottish in there, and because of the Vikings getting around and settling there, some Scandinavian.  I don't think there would be too many surprises since I come from a historically geographically isolated European island (which is now quite diverse, but wasn't until I was in my 20s).

And drawing these two totally non-Star-Wars issues together:  in 1847, the Chocktaw nation, despite their own poverty because of the Trail of Tears, donated to help the Irish during the potato famine.  Ireland has never forgotten.  There's at least one memorial to their kindness, and I grew up hearing this story as an immigrant kid-- my dad choked up every time he told it.

So, Star Wars!!!  and Ireland!!!  I'm hoping that cool shot of Rey in her Jedi robe (maybe it's the poncho?) with hood, holding up the lightsaber in a darkened location with a stone background behind her, is her with Kylo in one of the stone beehive huts.  She has every reason to have her lightsaber out with a serious, wary look on her face, even if she's giving him a chance and listening to him.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 2:20 am

Ha that's funny you mention the Scandinavian part. Because all the family names we can trace are English, Scottish, and Irish. Like oral history has said that we're primarily Scottish. But according to the test, Scandinavian and Finnish (supposedly I'm 10% Finnish) score high on the list of nationalities/ethnicities. Which I've met Scandinavians, both from Europe and Minnesota, and I'm physically not like those people at all. But if it goes back further, sure, maybe somebody in the family tree had a hot date with one of the Vikings who showed up in their village.

And it's totally Star Wars relevant because too many fans are obsessed with Rey's background and George Lucas made Obi Wan spend part of the first movie basically doing a DNA test



At least the more interesting Rey theories get into the questions of whether or not Force powers are passed down through a line and how. Seeing as how you have it coming from the father to both fraternal twins in the OT and from mother to son in the ST. Although who knows? She could turn out to be the offspring of Nerf Herders or Moof Milkers who had no idea their kid was so gifted. Or there are the really interesting ones posted here about how she could be a descendant from some of the Force lore topics we're hoping gets explored, like the original version of the Jedi or the Guardians of the Whills. Which would make her significant and important in a way tied to the Force which makes La Familia Vader look like newcomers.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 2:29 am

And speaking of the topic at hand, but I had to do some house cleaning/organizing this evening, so I watched this ridiculously campy fantasy film that I checked out from the library called the Seventh Son. Which first off stars Jeff Bridges and Julianne Moore, so I kept thinking of them as The Dude and Maud Lebowski the entire time they were onscreen. But it's a total Paint-By-Numbers story of the Hero's Journey and Knights/Swords and Sorcery where I recognized the central trope right away for SW - humble newb from rural backwater is revealed to be in possession of special powers and destiny, goes to train with broken down old knight. Which sure, that was Luke and Obi-Wan, except that the latter Kenobi'd out of that situation pretty quickly. Versus this one, where we know Rey's gonna be off with Luke for a good chunk of time. Also interesting in that the broken down knight in this movie has a BIG SECRET. Bad things happened which were his fault that he carries a secret shame about. However most interesting is that it follow the line of discussion we've had here many many times, if the genders were reversed, most fans would be saying that the hero would eventually hook up with the hot chick who's in league with the bad guys because of conflicted interests. In this case, the boring hero has a romance with the boring love interest (I thought for a long time it was the cousin from Downton Abbey but then realized it's Alicia Vikander), who's being controlled/blackmailed by the bad guys. But at heart, she's conflicted and can't help but feel drawn to the hero and even at one point asks him to run away with her. Like, where have I seen this before in a movie??? Like the same tropes were all there, just in the standard stereotypical order you'd see in most movies. It was dumb enough for background noise while I was getting stuff done. But also a perfect example of those types of tropes and how the good guy/bad guy type romance isn't this weird outlier thing that a lot of SW fans keep insisting and railing against with the ST.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 2:40 am

What they also forget is Rey and Kylo are more than 'good guy' and 'bad guy' - both have light/dark traits, which so many Reywalkers choose to ignore. As they also ignore Luke's dark heritage.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Darth Dementor on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 10:12 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:What they also forget is Rey and Kylo are more than 'good guy' and 'bad guy' - both have light/dark traits, which so many Reywalkers choose to ignore. As they also ignore Luke's dark heritage.
@motherofpearl1

When you put it that way you can possibly view Kylo as the path Luke could have taken if Vader had known about and found him when he was still a boy; or given in to his dark side tendencies in ROTJ?

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 10:18 am

@Darth Dementor wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:What they also forget is Rey and Kylo are more than 'good guy' and 'bad guy' - both have light/dark traits, which so many Reywalkers choose to ignore. As they also ignore Luke's dark heritage.
@motherofpearl1

When you put it that way you can possibly view Kylo as the path Luke could have taken if Vader had known about and found him when he was still a boy; or given in to his dark side tendencies in ROTJ?
@Darth Dementor

Exactly.
Luke and Leia were a lot luckier than Kylo. There was no Snoke. And both had stable, happy childhoods.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 10:57 am

@Darth Dementor wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:What they also forget is Rey and Kylo are more than 'good guy' and 'bad guy' - both have light/dark traits, which so many Reywalkers choose to ignore. As they also ignore Luke's dark heritage.
@motherofpearl1

When you put it that way you can possibly view Kylo as the path Luke could have taken if Vader had known about and found him when he was still a boy; or given in to his dark side tendencies in ROTJ?

@Darth Dementor

Always the best observations! At some point there was a discussion on here about how the twins had family friends who were able to shield/protect them as powerful FS offspring on highly public figures so that they could be 'raised right' and in safety. Versus whatever level of public status Ben grew up with. Including the full ADF line Leia says to Han about how Ben was targeted from the beginning b/c it was public knowledge who his family members were, including the potential to be really powerful (and either LS or DS) as a result. I'd love to see something, even if it gets tied in to the movie novelization, about their respective upbringings in the OT and how that shaped both of them. They essentially made the mistake that their guardians were able to prevent.

@motherofpearl1 - well yes people don't realize that. But more to the point, the hero on a quest who meets/falls in loves with/hooks up with the conflicted female villain (or in this case, in conflicted character league with the villain) is a complete and total cliche out of the old movie toolbox. Which is why @meadowofashes has said before that if the genders were reversed, you wouldn't have a lot of traditionalist fans arguing that the two characters aren't going to have anything to do with each other. You'd have them talking about how it's obvious something is going to happen between the two of them. Including gross fanboys making comments about when is Ray the hero is going to bang the Kyla Ren, that hot villain chick. Which happens in the dumb movie I just watched. The newb turned knight in training has a 'star crossed' (not really, they had zero chemistry) hook up with the young female character who's been blackmailed by the main villainess into doing her bidding (another cliche, it's to protect her mother). It's also revealed the Jeff Bridges aging knight character brought all these problems down on the world by having an affair with the Julianne Moore villainess, who falls in love with him and doesn't take it well when he tells her it was just a fling and that he's marrying somebody else. Actually that's also the premise of the dumb Sam Raimi Wizard of Oz 'prequel' where it's supposed to be that everything goes bad because all the empty headed witches fall in love with James Franco's version of Oscar Diggs and the Wicked Witch becomes that way because he doesn't like her as much as Glenda the Good (L Frank Baum who wrote the book inspired by his suffragette wife and MiL is rolling over in his grave). So it's merely watching that dumb movie reminded me of all those dumb movie cliches with these exact type of characters. Which a lot of viewers either miss or ignore in TFA because the genders are reversed. Which my guess is that that has to do with double standards about what audiences are willing to accept in terms of behavior for female versus male hero characters (male hero can be a space sl*t with the villainess and still be considered good, versus female hero="she's a role model!")
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 4:07 pm

Speaking of 'feeling the Force or whatever' Bright Wall Dark Room's issue this month is on the topic of sex and has some amazing essays on sex as a trangressive and transformative act in how characters and stories evolve. The essay about how Bryan Fuller uses sex in his television shows is exactly along the lines of what we've been discussing here about the whole cliffside moment coded not just as sexual, but as the characters connecting to something powerful and being transformed. "at the most you’d have a compelling narrative that gives insight into its characters and the transformations they go through." Some of us love a good d*ck joke and double entendre. But when it comes to 'feeling the Force,' it's not so much about the physical act of sex but about the emotional/psychological aspects and changes of the act which is what the scene brings home:

For Bryan Fuller, Sex Indicates Transformation

Sex in a Bryan Fuller show is about changing from who you are into something darker, or bolder, or truer. Sex transforms both his characters and his visuals into something closer to baser human nature. Sex scenes in a Bryan Fuller show are like looking directly into a fire: The world flickers and, for an instant, becomes too hot and nebulous to touch.

The reason Fuller’s sex scenes work so well is because the characters' physical desires are tied to their emotional desires. Laura wants Shadow, but she also wants to be alive. Salim wants the Jinn but also wants to be seen. Alana wants Margot, but she also wants to fight back.

This connection of character to desire is what makes the sex scenes, and the transformations they spur, so powerful.

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Post by Little_Boots on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 8:43 pm

I can't wait for Last Jedi.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by ReyofLightSide on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 8:56 pm

I wonder when we will hear Rey say "Ben" for the first time?

Also, my head canon if we don't get full Reylo romance by the end of 9, is something like Rey thinking Kylo is gone or left for good.
Then he shows up again and finds Rey.
Rey looks him up and down and comes out with: "The boy I've heard so much about,"
Kylo: "Yes, not one of more charming moments. Maybe we could start again?"
Rey. "I'm Rey."
Kylo: "I'm Ben."
Rey *smiling* "Nice to meet you, Ben."

aaaaand- scene! Hire me, Lucasfilm! Claps
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Post by IoJovi on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 8:56 pm

@snufkin wrote:Speaking of 'feeling the Force or whatever' Bright Wall Dark Room's issue this month is on the topic of sex and has some amazing essays on sex as a trangressive and transformative act in how characters and stories evolve. The essay about how Bryan Fuller uses sex in his television shows is exactly along the lines of what we've been discussing here about the whole cliffside moment coded not just as sexual, but as the characters connecting to something powerful and being transformed. "at the most you’d have a compelling narrative that gives insight into its characters and the transformations they go through." Some of us love a good d*ck joke and double entendre. But when it comes to 'feeling the Force,' it's not so much about the physical act of sex but about the emotional/psychological aspects and changes of the act which is what the scene brings home:

For Bryan Fuller, Sex Indicates Transformation

Sex in a Bryan Fuller show is about changing from who you are into something darker, or bolder, or truer. Sex transforms both his characters and his visuals into something closer to baser human nature. Sex scenes in a Bryan Fuller show are like looking directly into a fire: The world flickers and, for an instant, becomes too hot and nebulous to touch.

The reason Fuller’s sex scenes work so well is because the characters' physical desires are tied to their emotional desires. Laura wants Shadow, but she also wants to be alive. Salim wants the Jinn but also wants to be seen. Alana wants Margot, but she also wants to fight back.

This connection of character to desire is what makes the sex scenes, and the transformations they spur, so powerful.

@snufkin

Love this article. Thanks for sharing!! You can't tell me that's what not what was happening on that cliff side. If you ever want to convince a Reywalker they're not related, ask them to take the fight out of the cliff side, and ask them to picture it as a love scene. They won't be able to unsee it.
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Post by Little_Boots on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 9:03 pm

@ReyofLightSide wrote:I wonder when we will hear Rey say "Ben" for the first time?

Also, my head canon if we don't get full Reylo romance by the end of 9, is something like Rey thinking Kylo is gone or left for good.
Then he shows up again and finds Rey.
Rey looks him up and down and comes out with: "The boy I've heard so much about,"
Kylo: "Yes, not one of more charming moments. Maybe we could start again?"
Rey. "I'm Rey."
Kylo: "I'm Ben."
Rey *smiling* "Nice to meet you, Ben."

aaaaand- scene! Hire me, Lucasfilm! Claps
@ReyofLightSide

It's weird, when I think about my head canon I had last year it makes zero sense!! My fantasy was everywhere - the way I picture things now is, I believe (or I will will hope there will be a kiss but my heart is saying they will take the friends with attraction approach to the film that is upcoming and then in the final film) (lord help us all for waiting - can I can a high five!!) we will get a kiss. I have been neglectful of Reylo and i'ts a real shame because in all honesty it makes me happy. I miss it all, I have fallen so far behind but I think it's a romantic / friendship / intense thing.....i can't explain but i dunno if it will be blatant romance in next film
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by Little_Boots on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 9:09 pm

What am I even saying lol! Stretcher
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 9:15 pm

@iojovi - you're welcome! I think the key takeaway for what was shown happening between these two characters is the "connection of character to desire..and the transformation they spur, so powerful." There's the immediate fight and power struggle in that moment, but there's something deeper and far more personal/intimate where each of them can do something for the other (ahem). Which is tied into their overall character challenges and arc. Tapping into the Force is about power, which each one of them wants for very different reasons being at the respective opposite ends within that society of the power positions they occupy. But there's also the larger theme of the Force being tapping into something larger than oneself, which I'd argue ties in with the whole belonging speech Maz gives Rey. There's belonging in terms of relationships (and she marks him at the end of the fight), but in terms of the larger, more cosmic sense. And they're able to tap into that together. So it's absolutely *that* type of moment, played out symbolically and psychologically between these two characters.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by ReyofLightSide on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 9:17 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Speaking of 'feeling the Force or whatever' Bright Wall Dark Room's issue this month is on the topic of sex and has some amazing essays on sex as a trangressive and transformative act in how characters and stories evolve. The essay about how Bryan Fuller uses sex in his television shows is exactly along the lines of what we've been discussing here about the whole cliffside moment coded not just as sexual, but as the characters connecting to something powerful and being transformed. "at the most you’d have a compelling narrative that gives insight into its characters and the transformations they go through." Some of us love a good d*ck joke and double entendre. But when it comes to 'feeling the Force,' it's not so much about the physical act of sex but about the emotional/psychological aspects and changes of the act which is what the scene brings home:

For Bryan Fuller, Sex Indicates Transformation

Sex in a Bryan Fuller show is about changing from who you are into something darker, or bolder, or truer. Sex transforms both his characters and his visuals into something closer to baser human nature. Sex scenes in a Bryan Fuller show are like looking directly into a fire: The world flickers and, for an instant, becomes too hot and nebulous to touch.

The reason Fuller’s sex scenes work so well is because the characters' physical desires are tied to their emotional desires. Laura wants Shadow, but she also wants to be alive. Salim wants the Jinn but also wants to be seen. Alana wants Margot, but she also wants to fight back.

This connection of character to desire is what makes the sex scenes, and the transformations they spur, so powerful.

@snufkin

Love this article.  Thanks for sharing!!  You can't tell me that's what not what was happening on that cliff side.  If you ever want to convince a Reywalker they're not related, ask them to take the fight out of the cliff side, and ask them to picture it as a love scene.  They won't be able to unsee it.
@IoJovi

Seriously. And you have Kylo who was gritting his teeth during that scene. So at the minimum, Rey was probably digging around in his head and downloading. And also because of *whispers* the Force sex.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by snufkin on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 9:27 pm

I'll be curious what they show his flashbacks in terms of Force training or developing his ability with either Luke or Snoke as a master. Because I doubt it'll come anywhere close to what he's able to experience with Rey.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by tukicarreno on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 9:53 pm

I just wanted to ask around here , does anyone still believe a romance could happen with Rey & Kylo in episode IX? I am so bummed to see how many Reylo fans have sort of gave up on any possibility of that happening and just accept a platonic relationship at this point. Neutral


I don´t know, maybe it´s just me, but I still fully believe that their story can come to fruition by episode IX but sadly it´s hard to stay positive when everyone seems so resigned. Crying or Very sad

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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 10:17 pm

@tukicarreno wrote:I just wanted to ask around here , does anyone still believe a romance could happen with Rey & Kylo in episode IX? I am so bummed to see how many Reylo fans have sort of gave up on any possibility of that happening and just accept a platonic relationship at this point.  Neutral


I don´t know, maybe it´s just me, but I still fully believe that their story can come to fruition by episode IX but sadly  it´s hard to stay positive when everyone seems so resigned. Crying or Very sad

@tukicarreno

Where are you getting this from? I think a lot of people here think that there will be a romance in Episode IX.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by IoJovi on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 10:18 pm

@tukicarreno wrote:I just wanted to ask around here , does anyone still believe a romance could happen with Rey & Kylo in episode IX? I am so bummed to see how many Reylo fans have sort of gave up on any possibility of that happening and just accept a platonic relationship at this point.  Neutral


I don´t know, maybe it´s just me, but I still fully believe that their story can come to fruition by episode IX but sadly  it´s hard to stay positive when everyone seems so resigned. Crying or Very sad

@tukicarreno

I think a lot of people were bummed about RomanceGate, but to me when I read the real quote, it just conveyed that Reylo would be a slow burn.  And let's be honest, I think that works best.  They have a mountain of sith they have to work through before they can get anywhere near that point.

If in the event things get a bit too hot and heavy when he shows up on Ach-To, it points to a far more tragic ending as those types of romance tend to burn out fast.  Worst case, it would probably mean Kylo's death at the end of it all.  

A slow burn actually points to a happy, satisfying ending and I want that far more than any Reylo kiss in episode VIII that might be too soon.
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Re: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

Post by tukicarreno on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 11:33 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@tukicarreno wrote:I just wanted to ask around here , does anyone still believe a romance could happen with Rey & Kylo in episode IX? I am so bummed to see how many Reylo fans have sort of gave up on any possibility of that happening and just accept a platonic relationship at this point.  Neutral


I don´t know, maybe it´s just me, but I still fully believe that their story can come to fruition by episode IX but sadly  it´s hard to stay positive when everyone seems so resigned. Crying or Very sad

@tukicarreno

I think a lot of people were bummed about RomanceGate, but to me when I read the real quote, it just conveyed that Reylo would be a slow burn.  And let's be honest, I think that works best.  They have a mountain of sith they have to work through before they can get anywhere near that point.

If in the event things get a bit too hot and heavy when he shows up on Ach-To, it points to a far more tragic ending as those types of romance tend to burn out fast.  Worst case, it would probably mean Kylo's death at the end of it all.  

A slow burn actually points to a happy, satisfying ending and I want that far more than any Reylo kiss in episode VIII that might be too soon.
@IoJovi

Exactly! That's what I always thought too. A slowburn would definitely be better for their future together. Thats why I think they are doing things right not rushing it .I believe that in episode IX their love story will come to fruition. I was just asking because some fans online are getting discouraged and frustrated with the lack of Kylo/Adam & Reylo promo. But it is to be expected.

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