ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sat 22 Apr - 17:52

snufkin wrote:
Sacrebleu wrote:Am I imagining things, or did Rian Johnson say somewhere that there would be flasbacks in TLJ?
@Sacrebleu

I think that's come trickling out via potential spoilers, that Rey will be privvy to what actually happened in Ben's past via more Force visions. And we can kinda guess given him working on various story details with Claudia Johnson in Bloodline (but without spoiling her) that we'll get a sort of Godfather Part II story where the flashbacks happen prior to the first movie in the trilogy but as central to the story of the 2nd part.
@snufkin
It came out in the trailer too. We see Luke falling to his knees in front of the full shot of his temple engulfed in flames. Another Force Back or a vision. I'm calling that it's going to be longer, more detailed, and that we're going to learn something new or have our assumptions flipped, otherwise they wouldn't bother going into it all over again.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by snufkin on Sat 22 Apr - 18:08

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
snufkin wrote:
Sacrebleu wrote:Am I imagining things, or did Rian Johnson say somewhere that there would be flasbacks in TLJ?
@Sacrebleu

I think that's come trickling out via potential spoilers, that Rey will be privvy to what actually happened in Ben's past via more Force visions. And we can kinda guess given him working on various story details with Claudia Johnson in Bloodline (but without spoiling her) that we'll get a sort of Godfather Part II story where the flashbacks happen prior to the first movie in the trilogy but as central to the story of the 2nd part.
@snufkin
It came out in the trailer too. We see Luke falling to his knees in front of the full shot of his temple engulfed in flames. Another Force Back or a vision. I'm calling that it's going to be longer, more detailed, and that we're going to learn something new or have our assumptions flipped, otherwise they wouldn't bother going into it all over again.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Ah, thanks!

Yeah there has to be a reason to show more information about what happened if we're meant to take Rey's vision and Han's dialogue to both her and Leia as the final interpretation. And it's interesting reading a little about the cinematic influences on the franchise, because of The Searcher's shot referenced in the trailer. @armadeus mentioned way back in the day that Ben/Kylo could be like Pasha/Strelnikov in Doctor Zhivago. Which if you read Michael Scott's favorite peer reviewed source, Wikipedia, about the historic cinematic influences on the franchise, this is was an observation that's been made about Anakin/Vader for both the OT and PT. And that George Lucas intended for the frolicking picnics on Naboo sequence to mirror Lara and Zhivago's flight into the frozen wilderness. Which I sure as Hell missed! Although I do think that Rey's backstory may turn out to be like Lara and Zhivago's daughter, Tanya. But point being the original observation made here, he may turn out to be somebody signs up for a cause because he's insecure and wants to prove himself as the type of masculine stereotype he believes himself to be too weak to achieve. And when he's captured by hostile forces, he decides to defect/collaborate with his kidnappers in order to reinvent himself as the type of strong/emotionless man he thinks he should be. He ends up being a pretty sad and tragic figure because it's a hollow victory and the pretense ends up destroying him when he's no longer valuable to the people he's been working with.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by BenRey on Mon 24 Apr - 13:54

Spoiler Dump (Act 1)

Luke uses the force to take the light saber from Rey's outstretched hand. As he does she has another Force back.

The Resistance is hurriedly trying to flee the Illenian system but are met by a First Order fleet. The fleet is lead by Captain Phasma.

The Resistance sustains heavy losses and in process of evacuating the flagship is boarded. Poe and BB8 rush to wake up Finn and help get him off the ship. He's weak, but not like Wesley in the Princess Bride when he was mostly dead. Poe needs help assisting Finn and stops a panicking mechanic named Rose to help him get Finn to an escape pod.

Leia is captured by Captain Phasma and her special unit.

Rey wakes to find Luke conversing with birds. She thinks he's a loon watching the one sided conversations.

Luke asks Rey who she is and how she found him. She takes him to the Falcon where Chewbacca and Artoo are waiting.

Chewbacca embraces Luke who gets down to greet Artoo. Rey watches the exchange between the three longingly.

Luke and Rey return to the hut and Rey insists Luke rejoin the fight. Luke states his days of fighting are over and the practice of Jedi fighting wars has ended. Rey becomes even more upset when Luke begins talking to the birds again, this time seemingly in an argument. Luke declares almost angrily that he will train Rey... if she can pass a test.

Poe is piloting a freighter with Finn Rose and BB8 on board. He meets with the rest of the Resistance (or what's left of it) on an abandoned mining planet. Rose and BB8 take Finn to the med Bay while Poe is told of Leia's capture. After an argument with Admiral Holdo about launching a counter attack or gathering intel, Poe agrees the best recourse is an intel mission and covert extraction. Holdo says they need someone who can infiltrate a First Order occupied world and meet with a mole they have on the planet. Poe goes to the med Bay and tells Finn to rest up because he's got a mission for him.

Leia is taken aboard a massive Star Destroyer. Phasma presents her to Snoke. Snoke and Leia trade barbs and Snoke is angry by the mention of Luke returning by the end of the conversation. He has Leia thrown in a holding cell. He brings up Hux on a hologram and tells him to inform Kylo Ren they have his mother.

That's the end of the first act.

[size=41]https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67527c/spoiler_dump_act_i/[/size]
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 24 Apr - 13:59

WOW, sounds intense. I hope it's true hahaha.

Kylo is going to be pissed that Snoke imprisoned his mother.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Irina de France on Mon 24 Apr - 14:02

Plausible enough. Though I admit I kind of wonder why Kylo would head straight to Ahch-To while his mother is a FO prisoner...
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 24 Apr - 14:13

I'm reading the thread and this person seems to be coherent.

He mentions that Kylo Ren is going to interrogate Leia and it's going to be the most powerful scene in the movie, that he's closer to her than he was to Han, and that he breaks his helmet right after the interrogation.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by bossbaby on Mon 24 Apr - 14:27

BenRey wrote:Spoiler Dump (Act 1)

Luke uses the force to take the light saber from Rey's outstretched hand. As he does she has another Force back.

The Resistance is hurriedly trying to flee the Illenian system but are met by a First Order fleet. The fleet is lead by Captain Phasma.

The Resistance sustains heavy losses and in process of evacuating the flagship is boarded. Poe and BB8 rush to wake up Finn and help get him off the ship. He's weak, but not like Wesley in the Princess Bride when he was mostly dead. Poe needs help assisting Finn and stops a panicking mechanic named Rose to help him get Finn to an escape pod.

Leia is captured by Captain Phasma and her special unit.

Rey wakes to find Luke conversing with birds. She thinks he's a loon watching the one sided conversations.

Luke asks Rey who she is and how she found him. She takes him to the Falcon where Chewbacca and Artoo are waiting.

Chewbacca embraces Luke who gets down to greet Artoo. Rey watches the exchange between the three longingly.

Luke and Rey return to the hut and Rey insists Luke rejoin the fight. Luke states his days of fighting are over and the practice of Jedi fighting wars has ended. Rey becomes even more upset when Luke begins talking to the birds again, this time seemingly in an argument. Luke declares almost angrily that he will train Rey... if she can pass a test.

Poe is piloting a freighter with Finn Rose and BB8 on board. He meets with the rest of the Resistance (or what's left of it) on an abandoned mining planet. Rose and BB8 take Finn to the med Bay while Poe is told of Leia's capture. After an argument with Admiral Holdo about launching a counter attack or gathering intel, Poe agrees the best recourse is an intel mission and covert extraction. Holdo says they need someone who can infiltrate a First Order occupied world and meet with a mole they have on the planet. Poe goes to the med Bay and tells Finn to rest up because he's got a mission for him.

Leia is taken aboard a massive Star Destroyer. Phasma presents her to Snoke. Snoke and Leia trade barbs and Snoke is angry by the mention of Luke returning by the end of the conversation. He has Leia thrown in a holding cell. He brings up Hux on a hologram and tells him to inform Kylo Ren they have his mother.

That's the end of the first act.

[size=41]https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67527c/spoiler_dump_act_i/[/size]
@BenRey


Would be interesting if true but then when does this happen?



And also: This part doesn't match the descriptions of the shareholder footage.

Luke uses the force to take the light saber from Rey's outstretched hand.


Last edited by bossbaby on Mon 24 Apr - 14:29; edited 1 time in total
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 24 Apr - 14:29

After they rescue Leia?
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 24 Apr - 15:39

Luke talking to birds, omg lol!
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Acritiqua on Mon 24 Apr - 16:44

Irina de France wrote:Plausible enough. Though I admit I kind of wonder why Kylo would head straight to Ahch-To while his mother is a FO prisoner...
Maybe because he needs help. Interrogating his mother sounds like the worst thing imaginable. That would really intensify all of the conflict. If he went to Ahch-to fracturing at the seams, he might be just short of breaking and willing to listen to Rey or Luke tell him what to do (also, if he's revealing the FO has Leia, maybe that's why Luke blows up the hut?).

It's too much. Killing Han fractured Kylo badly, and maybe he can't take anymore of this. He might fight Rey and Luke before he breaks down.

I love the idea of Luke arguing with the birds about training Rey. That would be too funny.

I'm not sure if this is legit, as really there are enough pieces from previous spoilers to create this narrative. I can't believe it didn't occur to me that the mission Finn is going on might be rescuing Leia from the FO. Duh.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by IoJovi on Mon 24 Apr - 16:51

Maybe it's just me and my headcanon, but I picture Kylo coming to Ach-To sometime in the middle of the first Act. That can't be right if this spoiler is true.

Luke conversing with birds may sound funny to some, and while I'm not opposed to Mad!Luke, but this sounds hokey.

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Acritiqua on Mon 24 Apr - 17:02

It would sound more realistic without the birds, because that goes back to that previous Reddit post which seemed unlikely, and makes it seem more crafted out of previous spoilers/rumors.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by IoJovi on Mon 24 Apr - 17:06

Acritiqua wrote:It would sound more realistic without the birds, because that goes back to that previous Reddit post which seemed unlikely, and makes it seem more crafted out of previous spoilers/rumors.
@Acritiqua

That's what I'm thinking.  I'm thinking this is a savvy person who followed the legit spoilers that have come out, pieced them together and created their own story.  It's not the first time I've seen this happen, and it probably won't be the last...

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Birdwoman on Mon 24 Apr - 17:12


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by EchoBase on Mon 24 Apr - 17:21

@Birdwoman:

Luke and Kylo battling: who's got the fancier Vader souvenirs...at least Kylo's got the hot scar of his Grandfather .
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Birdwoman on Mon 24 Apr - 17:23

I was thinking...hmm, maybe this is why Kylo is looking for Luke? Or one of the reasons he is looking for Luke in the first movie.....

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by EchoBase on Mon 24 Apr - 17:29

Birdwoman wrote:I was thinking...hmm, maybe this is why Kylo is looking for Luke? Or one of the reasons he is looking for Luke in the first movie.....
@Birdwoman

Maybe it's one of the reason, not the main reason, and I really don't think, he will "become a monster" just to get this crystal (he's not that much of a fanboy). We know why he will appear on this certain island.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Birdwoman on Mon 24 Apr - 17:35

I am wondering if the krystal is making Luke a little off??!! or corrupting him like the ring did to Frodo?

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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 24 Apr - 17:38

Birdwoman wrote:I am wondering if the krystal is making Luke a little off??!! or corrupting him like the ring did to Frodo?
@Birdwoman

I'm picturing Luke, bat sith crazy, like gollum lol!
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Irina de France on Mon 24 Apr - 17:38

Birdwoman wrote:I am wondering if the krystal is making Luke a little off??!! or corrupting him like the ring did to Frodo?
@Birdwoman

Maybe the crystal is a Dark Side artefact? It wouldn't be new in SW for an object infected with the DS to influence someone without them realizing it.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Acritiqua on Mon 24 Apr - 17:38

Scorpios are materialistic and possessive in some accounts of the sign... Kylo's "that lightsaber it belongs to me!" kind of shows a certain intense possessiveness over objects that are meaningful to him (though of course he is fine if Rey takes the saber Razz or really, if she sees his father as like the father she never had... etc). I wouldn't expect him to be ridiculous about trying to get part of the crystal from Luke, but I think he kind of has that side to him. It wouldn't be his main purpose. But I'm sure he would want it, and any knowledge/objects of value to him.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by snufkin on Mon 24 Apr - 17:53

Well according to that Subreddit, Rey will end up being adopted by Luke because Lucas adopted his kids. Which is a lovely idea, but it seems more like a "how do we work our way around the overwhelming mountain of evidence that she's not his kid? While persisting in the belief that he's still in charge and not KK/Disney."
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 24 Apr - 18:02

snufkin wrote:Well according to that Subreddit, Rey will end up being adopted by Luke because Lucas adopted his kids. Which is a lovely idea, but it seems more like a "how do we work our way around the overwhelming mountain of evidence that she's not his kid? While persisting in the belief that he's still in charge and not KK/Disney."
@snufkin

Rey is 19! I just don't get this adoption thing. For Luke and Leia as babies, of course. If Luke had found Rey on Jakku as a kid, then fine. But she's a grown woman! Rey had a crappy childhood but who gets adopted at 19?!!! I guess Rey could theoretically take the name Skywalker if she doesn't know her own full name and never finds it out. It just seems unnecessary to me and would only be done to keep the actual Skywalker name going instead of the Bloodline with Ben Solo.

I'm getting bad vibes from these "spoilers" and I hate not knowing what's genuine and when we're being played. Ugh.
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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by Moonjump05 on Mon 24 Apr - 18:03

BenRey wrote:Spoiler Dump (Act 1)

Luke uses the force to take the light saber from Rey's outstretched hand. As he does she has another Force back.

The Resistance is hurriedly trying to flee the Illenian system but are met by a First Order fleet. The fleet is lead by Captain Phasma.

The Resistance sustains heavy losses and in process of evacuating the flagship is boarded. Poe and BB8 rush to wake up Finn and help get him off the ship. He's weak, but not like Wesley in the Princess Bride when he was mostly dead. Poe needs help assisting Finn and stops a panicking mechanic named Rose to help him get Finn to an escape pod.

Leia is captured by Captain Phasma and her special unit.

Rey wakes to find Luke conversing with birds. She thinks he's a loon watching the one sided conversations.

Luke asks Rey who she is and how she found him. She takes him to the Falcon where Chewbacca and Artoo are waiting.

Chewbacca embraces Luke who gets down to greet Artoo. Rey watches the exchange between the three longingly.

Luke and Rey return to the hut and Rey insists Luke rejoin the fight. Luke states his days of fighting are over and the practice of Jedi fighting wars has ended. Rey becomes even more upset when Luke begins talking to the birds again, this time seemingly in an argument. Luke declares almost angrily that he will train Rey... if she can pass a test.

Poe is piloting a freighter with Finn Rose and BB8 on board. He meets with the rest of the Resistance (or what's left of it) on an abandoned mining planet. Rose and BB8 take Finn to the med Bay while Poe is told of Leia's capture. After an argument with Admiral Holdo about launching a counter attack or gathering intel, Poe agrees the best recourse is an intel mission and covert extraction. Holdo says they need someone who can infiltrate a First Order occupied world and meet with a mole they have on the planet. Poe goes to the med Bay and tells Finn to rest up because he's got a mission for him.

Leia is taken aboard a massive Star Destroyer. Phasma presents her to Snoke. Snoke and Leia trade barbs and Snoke is angry by the mention of Luke returning by the end of the conversation. He has Leia thrown in a holding cell. He brings up Hux on a hologram and tells him to inform Kylo Ren they have his mother.

That's the end of the first act.

[size=43]https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/67527c/spoiler_dump_act_i/[/size]
@BenRey

I kinda like it?  The pacing seems right, and I want some of my favorite fanfiction scenes of Leia throwing shade at Snoke to come true.
Edit:
Piper Maru wrote:I'm reading the thread and this person seems to be coherent.

He mentions that Kylo Ren is going to interrogate Leia and it's going to be the most powerful scene in the movie, that he's closer to her than he was to Han, and that he breaks his helmet right after the interrogation.
@Piper Maru

See, I can totally get behind this. One of the major stumbling blocks many fans seem to have is that Kylo doesn't really feel like Han and Leia's son. Having them meet so early would do a lot to rectify that. Especially, if he breaks his mask and has to seek help with Luke and Rey to save her. It would be a great set up for an uneasy truce. All the while Snoke thinks he has another chain to yank Kylo around with. They could play up the tension of "whose side is he really on" for a good portion of the movie and still have set up for him turning on Snoke.


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Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 16

Post by snufkin on Mon 24 Apr - 18:11

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:would only be done to keep the actual Skywalker name going instead of the Bloodline with Ben Solo.

That seems to be the major point, "okay Plan B because JJ and company just blew up our theory that Rey is Luke's kid. Gotta find another way to make that happen instead of that awful emo space brat getting to be the legacy kid." If this had happened when Rey was much younger/a minor, yes there could've been a very lovely story to be told about adopted families give RL situations like GL and his kids. But this feels like a pretty big workaround that uses that scenario as a Hail Mary pass to try and keep Reywalker alive. I do think that there are going to be some fans who will be majorly pissed at how the ST plays out, that she's not the legacy kid because the legacy is perceived as some kind of reward or heroic designation as the most important. The ST instead seems to be playing around with that perception via the OT and Luke by having her be "no one" and the actual legacy kid is the villain.

I didn't actually watch the video but now I'm imagining some kind of ridiculous situation where Luke just adopts all of them, even Poe and BB-8. I guess they could have Rey and Finn be like Margot and Ritchie if they also want to hold on to the hopes that they end up together.

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