Discussion: Podcasts

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Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ZioRen on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:00

I don't dislike the general idea of this, but it's a bit too convoluted. I actually like the idea that Kylo kills the padawans because he thinks it's for the greater good. I don't think it takes away his moral responsibility or agency at all; in this scenario he still played god and chose to kill them based on something he didn't know for certain.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:07

@EchoBase wrote:
@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:https://soundcloud.com/whotalksfirst

The episode about the "anti-chosen" one is really worth listening. I know rumors are rumors, but this is the best I've heard so far.

It would be a shocking twist, it would make Kylo more sympathetic, it would explain why Luke hesitates to train Rey.


@EchoBase

Very interesting!  Here's a summary:

* The WTF people heard from their own source that Rey is not related to anyone, but she is the reason that Ben fell to the dark side, and that Ben fell in her place. So how does that fit with Rey and Kylo never having met before?
* Brought up the speculation by MSW that Rey is a prophesied "bringer of doom" figure.
* WTF thinks that Rey might be an "anti- chosen one".

Here's the speculation/possible evidence from WTF:

* WTF speculates (and emphasized that this is pure speculation) that when Rax was trying to destroy Jakku (by destroying the heart/core of Jakku) to bring about the end of the galaxy, this was in support of instruction from the Emperor, probably from a prophecy. But what if the "heart of Jakku" is really Rey?
* They brought up the "light source" (blue light) from the well of Jakku that Rax & co encountered in Empire's End.
* Fast-forward:  Ben and Luke discovered some prophecy about "the heart of Jakku" being a bringer of destruction. Maybe even Snoke knows about it because he knows that the "new Jedi" will be the bringer of destruction. Basically, everyone wants to stop this.
* Ben fell because he thought that one of the padawans was the doombringer of the prophecy...so he killed everyone thinking that he was saving the entire galaxy. This fits with Ben thinking that he was doing the "right thing" (and most of the audience will probably sympathize with it), but he's still a murderer. Also fits with the overall Jedi message about being willing to sacrifice individuals for the greater good of the galaxy.

Other interesting bits:

* Brought up Leia's quote about how "I would burn down the entire galaxy if I thought it was the right thing to do."
* Possibly creates the possibility of a self-sacrifice ending for Rey...where Rey sacrifices herself to prevent the destruction of the galaxy.

WTF's points against this theory:
* We've already had a "chosen one". Making Rey an anti-chosen one would be redundant.
* Rey self-sacrificing at the end would be depressing.
* We already have Kylo in the Reverse Anakin role...  Would they bring more "Anakin" into the story in the form of Rey when they already have their Anakin in Kylo?
* It would really be a lot more simple if Luke just wants the Jedi to end because he and Ben discovered how corrupt the Jedi really were.
@ISeeAnIsland



If her source is legit, it might be a way to get Rey and Ren close, sooner than we imagine. And Rey being an anti-chosen one mirrors Persephone being feared and revered by everyone, even by her death-husband.
@Maria Antonietta

And wouldn't it be ironic, if Rey was the reason for Ben's fall, but at the same time she could be the catalyst to bring him back to the light? That she was the one who's "responsible" for the imbalance of the galaxy and she could be the one to bring the balance back?
@EchoBase

Listen, I believe everything Carrie said (bless her soul). She said that "Rey is very forgiving...You know, no one would be friend with my son because he's a beep-hole". A huge bomb is going to drop if she'll have a quick change of heart. This seems a pretty good one. If they shared visions, if he saw her through visions and decided to take responsabilities for her, for her life, she would probably be compassionate to him.
I've read RJ movies synopsis, his anti-villains do something horrible for a right cause. Rey could be his right cause.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by panki on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:15

I think Rey originally intending to be the bringer of doom would make a great story.....It reminds me of the Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman novel- Good Omens where there is a case of mistaken identity and one boy is brought up as the anti-Christ while the real anti-Christ is brought up elsewhere....and the good part is that the real anti-christ gets to make his own destiny, falls in love and lives happily ever after (its a funny book so nothing bad happens to the other boy either).





Snoke might have been grooming poor Ben Solo from infancy because he assumed Vader's grandson had to be the anti-chosen one....and it explains poor Kylo's obvious misery being a dark sider and begging Vader to show him the darkness...and it would also explain how rage and dark side tendencies come so easily to Rey (she almost looks like Maul in the snow fight scene)....but because of this error, Rey might have the chance to make her own destiny, bring Kylo back to the light and lead a happy life.





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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:16

@ZioRen wrote:I don't dislike the general idea of this, but it's a bit too convoluted. I actually like the idea that Kylo kills the padawans because he thinks it's for the greater good. I don't think it takes away his moral responsibility or agency at all; in this scenario he still played god and chose to kill them based on something he didn't know for certain.
@ZioRen

I agree--there are some good bits, but it's convoluted and there are also a number of holes:

* Where does Vader tie into Kylo's motivations if everything he's done has been prophecy-driven?
* If Kylo figured out who Rey was (i.e. the "agent of doom") on Takodona or SKB, why not just kill her there and be done with the prophecy? If the dude slaughtered a whole temple of padawans, I doubt that a villainous crush would have prevented him from doing the same thing to Rey.

Although, I guess you could have a situation where Kylo figured out who she is post-SKB, and that's why he comes to Ahch-To looking to kill her (if that rumor is true, which I'm taking with a huge pile of salt at this point).
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:20

@EchoBase wrote:
@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:https://soundcloud.com/whotalksfirst

The episode about the "anti-chosen" one is really worth listening. I know rumors are rumors, but this is the best I've heard so far.

It would be a shocking twist, it would make Kylo more sympathetic, it would explain why Luke hesitates to train Rey.


@EchoBase

Very interesting!  Here's a summary:

* The WTF people heard from their own source that Rey is not related to anyone, but she is the reason that Ben fell to the dark side, and that Ben fell in her place. So how does that fit with Rey and Kylo never having met before?
* Brought up the speculation by MSW that Rey is a prophesied "bringer of doom" figure.
* WTF thinks that Rey might be an "anti- chosen one".

Here's the speculation/possible evidence from WTF:

* WTF speculates (and emphasized that this is pure speculation) that when Rax was trying to destroy Jakku (by destroying the heart/core of Jakku) to bring about the end of the galaxy, this was in support of instruction from the Emperor, probably from a prophecy. But what if the "heart of Jakku" is really Rey?
* They brought up the "light source" (blue light) from the well of Jakku that Rax & co encountered in Empire's End.
* Fast-forward:  Ben and Luke discovered some prophecy about "the heart of Jakku" being a bringer of destruction. Maybe even Snoke knows about it because he knows that the "new Jedi" will be the bringer of destruction. Basically, everyone wants to stop this.
* Ben fell because he thought that one of the padawans was the doombringer of the prophecy...so he killed everyone thinking that he was saving the entire galaxy. This fits with Ben thinking that he was doing the "right thing" (and most of the audience will probably sympathize with it), but he's still a murderer. Also fits with the overall Jedi message about being willing to sacrifice individuals for the greater good of the galaxy.

Other interesting bits:

* Brought up Leia's quote about how "I would burn down the entire galaxy if I thought it was the right thing to do."
* Possibly creates the possibility of a self-sacrifice ending for Rey...where Rey sacrifices herself to prevent the destruction of the galaxy.

WTF's points against this theory:
* We've already had a "chosen one". Making Rey an anti-chosen one would be redundant.
* Rey self-sacrificing at the end would be depressing.
* We already have Kylo in the Reverse Anakin role...  Would they bring more "Anakin" into the story in the form of Rey when they already have their Anakin in Kylo?
* It would really be a lot more simple if Luke just wants the Jedi to end because he and Ben discovered how corrupt the Jedi really were.
@ISeeAnIsland



If her source is legit, it might be a way to get Rey and Ren close, sooner than we imagine. And Rey being an anti-chosen one mirrors Persephone being feared and revered by everyone, even by her death-husband.
@Maria Antonietta

And wouldn't it be ironic, if Rey was the reason for Ben's fall, but at the same time she could be the catalyst to bring him back to the light? That she was the one who's "responsible" for the imbalance of the galaxy and she could be the one to bring the balance back?
@EchoBase

Yeah, I don't know if this is true or not, but if Ben actually were to "fall for or because of Rey", the stakes of the Reylo relationship would just be turned up to 11.  If she really is this prophesized "harbinger of doom", then he would have shown an almost insane level of self-sacrifice and Leia-like zealotry to protect others. IOW, he would basically be willing to damn his soul to save everybody else.  And if she thoroughly believes she is this "anti-chosen one", it's likely that she'd want to not destroy the galaxy either ... and though it would all be mind-boggling, especially since he would have wanted to kill her, she also might be impressed with his willingness to destroy himself for other people's welfare.  At the same time, he would think he is still supposed to kill her, but he can't because he falls in love with her.

And actually, just typing that sentence tells me that this theory is wrong somehow.  Kylo *never* wanted to kill her, even after the "it's you!"  He would have been more aggressive and tormented in the Snow Fight if he was compelled to kill a harbinger of doom.  However, he still could have "fallen to the dark for her or because of her" in a protective manner.  A lot of us have theorized that he has had visions of her before ... and let's say he has.  Let's say that he has sensed her for a long time and knows she has an important role to play and for whatever reason he thinks he needs to do these terrible things to protect her mission ... if that's the case, then talk about building up the intensity in the relationship and making her see him in a completely different way.  In fact, this would really, really fit in this whole knightly persona they have created for him in that he would be doing anything to protect his "queen" or "the lady".  Also, something like this, that he has "known of her" through visions, that he is somehow "her helper or personal warrior without knowing her" would *really* fit into the "mysterious connection" point that they are pushing.  It would be extremely "force-ish" in that "I know ... I've always known" kind of way.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:20

@panki wrote:I think Rey originally intending to be the bringer of doom would make a great story.....It reminds me of the Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman novel- Good Omens where there is a case of mistaken identity and one boy is brought up as the anti-Christ while the real anti-Christ is brought up elsewhere....and the good part is that the real anti-christ gets to make his own destiny, falls in love and lives happily ever after.





Snoke might have been grooming poor Ben Solo from infancy because he assumed Vader's grandson had to be the anti-chosen one....and it explains poor Kylo's obvious misery being a dark sider...it would explain how rage and dark side tendencies come so easily to Rey....but because of this error, Rey might have the chance to make her own destiny, bring Kylo back to the light and lead a happy life.
@panki

Could it be like a subverted Beauty and the Beast situation, where Rey becomes the anti-chosen-one if she doesn't find true love by a certain deadline? (We did see the very BaTB-esque flower in her AT-AT.)

It could be that someone (Snoke?) wanted to bring about that prophecy and thus had her stashed in a place where she'd be highly unlikely to find love--Jakku.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ZioRen on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:23

This is a good point. If Kylo's whole motivation was essentially to kill Rey, why would he change his mind now? Having a crush on a girl doesn't seem like it's enough to falter a crusade that led him to kill all his fellow students. Especially if he thinks the whole galaxy is at stake.

And if this is the case, I'd think Snoke would be more aware of her and what she meant.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by panki on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:23

@ISeeAnIsland

It could definitely explain Rey being stuck on Jakku....but then we also have to figure out why he would groom Kylo and keep him close, calling him the focal of light and dark etc....shouldn't he keep Rey with him instead to ensure she obeys him?

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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:27

@panki wrote:@ISeeAnIsland

It could definitely explain Rey being stuck on Jakku....but then we also have to figure out why he would groom Kylo and keep him close, calling him the focal of light and dark etc....shouldn't he keep Rey with him instead to ensure she obeys him?
@panki

Perhaps it's the same reason that you posted? Snoke misinterpreted the prophecy and thinks that Kylo/Ben is the one who it's really about...that Kylo can bring about end times (or whatever) if he doesn't find love? Snoke certainly seems to have groomed him and kept him in a state where Kylo thinks that he's unloveable.

Granted, this is all just me talking off the top of my head... While probably not dead on, I thought that the podcast brought up some very interesting points.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:31

@panki wrote:@ISeeAnIsland

It could definitely explain Rey being stuck on Jakku....but then we also have to figure out why he would groom Kylo and keep him close, calling him the focal of light and dark etc....shouldn't he keep Rey with him instead to ensure she obeys him?
@panki

It could actually be a combination of your theory and @ISeeAnIsland's B&tB theory.  Snoke could think because of Kylo's unique force nature that he is the "anti-chosen one", when he really isn't.  She could be the real anti-chosen one, but someone in the know hid her away.  I can't see it totally clearly at this second, but I think that there is a way to make both ideas work.  I do really like this idea that everyone thought Ben was the ticking time bomb, including Snoke, but it's really Rey who has been put off the grid ... in that sense Kylo would have suffered as a result of her in a way and it would be awesomely angsty.  Also, in the end, like in BatB, they will figure out a way to "save her" ... especially if everyone involved originally read the prophecy wrongly.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by panki on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:34

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@panki wrote:@ISeeAnIsland

It could definitely explain Rey being stuck on Jakku....but then we also have to figure out why he would groom Kylo and keep him close, calling him the focal of light and dark etc....shouldn't he keep Rey with him instead to ensure she obeys him?
@panki

It could actually be a combination of your theory and @ISeeAnIsland's B&tB theory.  Snoke could think because of Kylo's unique force nature that he is the "anti-chosen one", when he really isn't.  She could be the real anti-chosen one, but someone in the know hid her away.  I can't see it totally clearly at this second, but I think that there is a way to make both ideas work.  I do really like this idea that everyone thought Ben was the ticking time bomb, including Snoke, but it's really Rey who has been put off the grid ... in that sense Kylo would have suffered as a result of her in a way and it would be awesomely angsty.  Also, in the end, like in BatB, they will figure out a way to "save her" ... especially if everyone involved originally read the prophecy wrongly.
@SoloSideCousin

Great interpretation....I really like how the B&tB story could fit into it as well. Very Happy

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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 12 May 2017 - 22:41

@panki wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@panki wrote:@ISeeAnIsland

It could definitely explain Rey being stuck on Jakku....but then we also have to figure out why he would groom Kylo and keep him close, calling him the focal of light and dark etc....shouldn't he keep Rey with him instead to ensure she obeys him?
@panki

It could actually be a combination of your theory and @ISeeAnIsland's B&tB theory.  Snoke could think because of Kylo's unique force nature that he is the "anti-chosen one", when he really isn't.  She could be the real anti-chosen one, but someone in the know hid her away.  I can't see it totally clearly at this second, but I think that there is a way to make both ideas work.  I do really like this idea that everyone thought Ben was the ticking time bomb, including Snoke, but it's really Rey who has been put off the grid ... in that sense Kylo would have suffered as a result of her in a way and it would be awesomely angsty.  Also, in the end, like in BatB, they will figure out a way to "save her" ... especially if everyone involved originally read the prophecy wrongly.
@SoloSideCousin

Great interpretation....I really like how the B&tB story could fit into it as well. Very Happy
@panki

Thanks! Very Happy And I just had another thought, if they actually go this way, I imagine that part of the reason that Snoke would target Kylo is because he is a Skywalker.  But then the story would make Snoke wrong.  It would actually be a kind of "meta commentary" on the previous movies and the audience expectations that *everything* in the galaxy has to be done by a Skywalker ... (as we have seen at worst with the Reywalker phenomenon).  Instead, the center would be on another family (Rey's people) and the Skywalker interacts/marries into with that family.  It's a way of defying expectations and expanding the universe in terms of powerful families, but at the same time not forgetting the Skywalkers at all, instead just giving the universe another serious line of people to work with in the world-building.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 12 May 2017 - 23:52

I was just thinking about Rey possibly being a "harbinger of doom" and a possible "self-sacrifice" ending for her...and then realized, wow, if Rey ends up dead, that's a terrible track record for Star Wars heroines:

* Padme = dead
* Jyn Erso = dead
* Leia = likely dead by the end of IX, given Carrie's untimely passing

If they killed Rey, I think you could safely say that being a Star Wars heroine is even deadlier than being a Spinal Tap drummer.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 12 May 2017 - 23:55

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I was just thinking about Rey possibly being a "harbinger of doom" and a possible "self-sacrifice" ending for her...and then realized, wow, if Rey ends up dead, that's a terrible track record for Star Wars heroines:

* Padme = dead
* Jyn Erso = dead
* Leia = likely dead by the end of IX, given Carrie's untimely passing

If they killed Rey, I think you could safely say that being a Star Wars heroine is even deadlier than being a Spinal Tap drummer.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yep. No way it will happen.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 13 May 2017 - 0:09

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I was just thinking about Rey possibly being a "harbinger of doom" and a possible "self-sacrifice" ending for her...and then realized, wow, if Rey ends up dead, that's a terrible track record for Star Wars heroines:

* Padme = dead
* Jyn Erso = dead
* Leia = likely dead by the end of IX, given Carrie's untimely passing

If they killed Rey, I think you could safely say that being a Star Wars heroine is even deadlier than being a Spinal Tap drummer.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yep. No way it will happen.
@Darth_Awakened

Come to think of it, the romance track record for Star Wars heroines isn't very good, either:

* Padme = died of a "broken heart" (yeah, yeah)
* Jyn = Romance that never had a chance to develop, then blown up
* Leia = Appears to have "happy ending" at the end of OT...Marries the love of her life, but it ends in tragedy

So, I think that we're due for a Star Wars heroine having a "happy ending" romance, as well.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 13 May 2017 - 11:29

Wow, lots to digest here... I decided yesterday that I'm only going to check Star Wars discussions once a day from now on, and of course the moment I make such a decision, new stuff appears. Laughing

I think it was @ISeeAnIsland who wondered what Darth Vader has to do with all this if it's about some prophecy after all - well, it could be that this prophecy is somehow tied to the prophecy of the Chosen One, or that Anakin's lightsaber has something to do with it (considering it was the lightsaber that prompted "It is you!"). Or that something ties the prophecy to the Skywalker family (as, of course, Rey is being drawn to them).

A lot of that stuff is similar to what I've theorised before, so it's quite exciting; I've always suspected it's possible that Rey was meant to be killed in order to avert a prophecy, but the killer couldn't bring himself to kill her, and abandoned her instead - but she would return, as prophesied figures tend to do. Oedipus style.

But my question is, who are the Knights of Rant (seems like a newish podcast?) and how do they have legit "sources" who are in a position to know something this big?

One possibility that occurs to me, btw, is that Kylo is aware of this prophesied girl and thinks she was murdered... until she turns up.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 13 May 2017 - 11:56

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:The WTF people heard from their own source that Rey is not related to anyone, but she is the reason that Ben fell to the dark side, and that Ben fell in her place. So how does that fit with Rey and Kylo never having met before?

As far as I got the post, the above quote is what they heard and the rest of it is just a speculation mixed with the MSW's speculation of the "doombringer"?

If it's the case: It comes to mind that Rey was somehow destined to become a FO main dark side warrior (i.e. Kylo's present place): the FO definitely recruited children across the galaxy for their cause.
Maybe, when time was right for action Snoke was searching for a girl, but Rey was nowhere to be found (she was already on Jakku - and probably no one was looking there - a very strange parallel with Falcon).
So, Snoke decided to go with Ben, instead of Rey.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 13 May 2017 - 13:41

Rey as the anti-chosen one or the harbinger of doom is basically the plot to Looper... Cid the Rainmaker... The plot revolves around the need to kill Cid before he grows up hence the time loop, also remember this is already the reverse plot of Terminator where the terminators travel back in time to kill the savior John before he is born ... blah I don't buy that RJ would put this plot in EP8.


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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by Kylo Men on Sat 13 May 2017 - 14:38

Just read through the theory in the other thread. I give any theory in which Rey dies before giving birth very little credibility. Also, I wouldn't say it's all that too convoluted. But it is too convoluted.

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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 13 May 2017 - 19:34

@Darth Dingbat wrote:Wow, lots to digest here... I decided yesterday that I'm only going to check Star Wars discussions once a day from now on, and of course the moment I make such a decision, new stuff appears. Laughing

I think it was @ISeeAnIsland who wondered what Darth Vader has to do with all this if it's about some prophecy after all - well, it could be that this prophecy is somehow tied to the prophecy of the Chosen One, or that Anakin's lightsaber has something to do with it (considering it was the lightsaber that prompted "It is you!"). Or that something ties the prophecy to the Skywalker family (as, of course, Rey is being drawn to them).

A lot of that stuff is similar to what I've theorised before, so it's quite exciting; I've always suspected it's possible that Rey was meant to be killed in order to avert a prophecy, but the killer couldn't bring himself to kill her, and abandoned her instead - but she would return, as prophesied figures tend to do. Oedipus style.

But my question is, who are the Knights of Rant (seems like a newish podcast?) and how do they have legit "sources" who are in a position to know something this big?

One possibility that occurs to me, btw, is that Kylo is aware of this prophesied girl and thinks she was murdered... until she turns up.
@Darth Dingbat

I don't know much about the Knights of Rant, other than I've heard their name a few times. As far as the legitimacy of their sources, even they don't know how reliable they are. They made a point in the podcast to point out that MSW seems to have some fairly reliable sources, but the Knights won't know how reliable their source is until more info comes out.

They did also say that they'd discounted what their source had told them (about Ben falling in Rey's place) until the most recent bit of info from MSW--that MSW saying that Luke initially trains Rey but then has the conversation with her "about her place in the Force and then doesn't want to train her" made something click with the rumor they had heard quite a while back.

@spacebaby45678 - I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right...the "anti-chosen one" rumor sure does seem to fairly closely resemble the plot to Looper. And I loved Looper, but I also get the feeling that Rian Johnson isn't the type of director to keep remaking the same movie.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 13 May 2017 - 20:47

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:Wow, lots to digest here... I decided yesterday that I'm only going to check Star Wars discussions once a day from now on, and of course the moment I make such a decision, new stuff appears. Laughing

I think it was @ISeeAnIsland who wondered what Darth Vader has to do with all this if it's about some prophecy after all - well, it could be that this prophecy is somehow tied to the prophecy of the Chosen One, or that Anakin's lightsaber has something to do with it (considering it was the lightsaber that prompted "It is you!"). Or that something ties the prophecy to the Skywalker family (as, of course, Rey is being drawn to them).

A lot of that stuff is similar to what I've theorised before, so it's quite exciting; I've always suspected it's possible that Rey was meant to be killed in order to avert a prophecy, but the killer couldn't bring himself to kill her, and abandoned her instead - but she would return, as prophesied figures tend to do. Oedipus style.

But my question is, who are the Knights of Rant (seems like a newish podcast?) and how do they have legit "sources" who are in a position to know something this big?

One possibility that occurs to me, btw, is that Kylo is aware of this prophesied girl and thinks she was murdered... until she turns up.
@Darth Dingbat

I don't know much about the Knights of Rant, other than I've heard their name a few times. As far as the legitimacy of their sources, even they don't know how reliable they are. They made a point in the podcast to point out that MSW seems to have some fairly reliable sources, but the Knights won't know how reliable their source is until more info comes out.

They did also say that they'd discounted what their source had told them (about Ben falling in Rey's place) until the most recent bit of info from MSW--that MSW saying that Luke initially trains Rey but then has the conversation with her "about her place in the Force and then doesn't want to train her" made something click with the rumor they had heard quite a while back.

@spacebaby45678 - I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right...the "anti-chosen one" rumor sure does seem to fairly closely resemble the plot to Looper. And I loved Looper, but I also get the feeling that Rian Johnson isn't the type of director to keep remaking the same movie.
@ISeeAnIsland

There's also much more simple possibility as why Luke doesn't want to train Rey: The time for Jedi to end.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 13 May 2017 - 22:20

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:Wow, lots to digest here... I decided yesterday that I'm only going to check Star Wars discussions once a day from now on, and of course the moment I make such a decision, new stuff appears. Laughing

I think it was @ISeeAnIsland who wondered what Darth Vader has to do with all this if it's about some prophecy after all - well, it could be that this prophecy is somehow tied to the prophecy of the Chosen One, or that Anakin's lightsaber has something to do with it (considering it was the lightsaber that prompted "It is you!"). Or that something ties the prophecy to the Skywalker family (as, of course, Rey is being drawn to them).

A lot of that stuff is similar to what I've theorised before, so it's quite exciting; I've always suspected it's possible that Rey was meant to be killed in order to avert a prophecy, but the killer couldn't bring himself to kill her, and abandoned her instead - but she would return, as prophesied figures tend to do. Oedipus style.

But my question is, who are the Knights of Rant (seems like a newish podcast?) and how do they have legit "sources" who are in a position to know something this big?

One possibility that occurs to me, btw, is that Kylo is aware of this prophesied girl and thinks she was murdered... until she turns up.
@Darth Dingbat

I don't know much about the Knights of Rant, other than I've heard their name a few times. As far as the legitimacy of their sources, even they don't know how reliable they are. They made a point in the podcast to point out that MSW seems to have some fairly reliable sources, but the Knights won't know how reliable their source is until more info comes out.

They did also say that they'd discounted what their source had told them (about Ben falling in Rey's place) until the most recent bit of info from MSW--that MSW saying that Luke initially trains Rey but then has the conversation with her "about her place in the Force and then doesn't want to train her" made something click with the rumor they had heard quite a while back.

@spacebaby45678 - I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right...the "anti-chosen one" rumor sure does seem to fairly closely resemble the plot to Looper. And I loved Looper, but I also get the feeling that Rian Johnson isn't the type of director to keep remaking the same movie.
@ISeeAnIsland

@gemini mentioned it might be the reylo force bond that makes Luke not want to train her.
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ZioRen on Sat 13 May 2017 - 22:32

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:Wow, lots to digest here... I decided yesterday that I'm only going to check Star Wars discussions once a day from now on, and of course the moment I make such a decision, new stuff appears. Laughing

I think it was @ISeeAnIsland who wondered what Darth Vader has to do with all this if it's about some prophecy after all - well, it could be that this prophecy is somehow tied to the prophecy of the Chosen One, or that Anakin's lightsaber has something to do with it (considering it was the lightsaber that prompted "It is you!"). Or that something ties the prophecy to the Skywalker family (as, of course, Rey is being drawn to them).

A lot of that stuff is similar to what I've theorised before, so it's quite exciting; I've always suspected it's possible that Rey was meant to be killed in order to avert a prophecy, but the killer couldn't bring himself to kill her, and abandoned her instead - but she would return, as prophesied figures tend to do. Oedipus style.

But my question is, who are the Knights of Rant (seems like a newish podcast?) and how do they have legit "sources" who are in a position to know something this big?

One possibility that occurs to me, btw, is that Kylo is aware of this prophesied girl and thinks she was murdered... until she turns up.
@Darth Dingbat

I don't know much about the Knights of Rant, other than I've heard their name a few times. As far as the legitimacy of their sources, even they don't know how reliable they are. They made a point in the podcast to point out that MSW seems to have some fairly reliable sources, but the Knights won't know how reliable their source is until more info comes out.

They did also say that they'd discounted what their source had told them (about Ben falling in Rey's place) until the most recent bit of info from MSW--that MSW saying that Luke initially trains Rey but then has the conversation with her "about her place in the Force and then doesn't want to train her" made something click with the rumor they had heard quite a while back.

@spacebaby45678 - I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right...the "anti-chosen one" rumor sure does seem to fairly closely resemble the plot to Looper. And I loved Looper, but I also get the feeling that Rian Johnson isn't the type of director to keep remaking the same movie.
@ISeeAnIsland

@gemini mentioned it might be the reylo force bond that makes Luke not want to train her.
@spacebaby45678

Wasn't there a "leak" along those lines too? That Luke sensed Rey getting closer to Kylo in the future and that the nature of their connection and their effect on each other concerned him?
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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 13 May 2017 - 22:59

@ZioRen wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:Wow, lots to digest here... I decided yesterday that I'm only going to check Star Wars discussions once a day from now on, and of course the moment I make such a decision, new stuff appears. Laughing

I think it was @ISeeAnIsland who wondered what Darth Vader has to do with all this if it's about some prophecy after all - well, it could be that this prophecy is somehow tied to the prophecy of the Chosen One, or that Anakin's lightsaber has something to do with it (considering it was the lightsaber that prompted "It is you!"). Or that something ties the prophecy to the Skywalker family (as, of course, Rey is being drawn to them).

A lot of that stuff is similar to what I've theorised before, so it's quite exciting; I've always suspected it's possible that Rey was meant to be killed in order to avert a prophecy, but the killer couldn't bring himself to kill her, and abandoned her instead - but she would return, as prophesied figures tend to do. Oedipus style.

But my question is, who are the Knights of Rant (seems like a newish podcast?) and how do they have legit "sources" who are in a position to know something this big?

One possibility that occurs to me, btw, is that Kylo is aware of this prophesied girl and thinks she was murdered... until she turns up.
@Darth Dingbat

I don't know much about the Knights of Rant, other than I've heard their name a few times. As far as the legitimacy of their sources, even they don't know how reliable they are. They made a point in the podcast to point out that MSW seems to have some fairly reliable sources, but the Knights won't know how reliable their source is until more info comes out.

They did also say that they'd discounted what their source had told them (about Ben falling in Rey's place) until the most recent bit of info from MSW--that MSW saying that Luke initially trains Rey but then has the conversation with her "about her place in the Force and then doesn't want to train her" made something click with the rumor they had heard quite a while back.

@spacebaby45678 - I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right...the "anti-chosen one" rumor sure does seem to fairly closely resemble the plot to Looper. And I loved Looper, but I also get the feeling that Rian Johnson isn't the type of director to keep remaking the same movie.
@ISeeAnIsland

@gemini mentioned it might be the reylo force bond that makes Luke not want to train her.
@spacebaby45678

Wasn't there a "leak" along those lines too? That Luke sensed Rey getting closer to Kylo in the future and that the nature of their connection and their effect on each other concerned him?
@ZioRen

I don't know that there was a leak, but there's been a lot of speculation about it. And honestly, I think that Luke discovering Rey's connection/bond with Kylo and being wary of that is probably the most straightforward explanation. It's also probably the most logical explanation for Luke telling Rey that she has to kill Kylo (to rid her of the bond), if that "spoiler" is true.

I could see there being a sequence of events like this:

1. Rey shows up, debriefs Luke, pleads with him to return. Luke refuses to return but agrees to train Rey.
2. Luke starts training Rey.
3. Rey goes into cave/tree, has Kylo-filled vision. I'd expect this vision would give further hint of them having "intertwined destinies".
4. Rey tells Luke about the vision; Luke realizes the implications of her Kylo-filled vision and refuses to train Rey further.

I know that I'm guilty of having the headcanon of wanting Rey to ultimately end up training with Kylo, but objectively, the Luke-refusing-to-train-Rey does seem like a perfect setup for her eventually reconsidering and accepting Kylo's offer to teach her.


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Re: Discussion: Podcasts

Post by Guest on Sun 14 May 2017 - 0:18

@Darth Dingbat wrote:Wow, lots to digest here... I decided yesterday that I'm only going to check Star Wars discussions once a day from now on, and of course the moment I make such a decision, new stuff appears. Laughing

I think it was @ISeeAnIsland who wondered what Darth Vader has to do with all this if it's about some prophecy after all - well, it could be that this prophecy is somehow tied to the prophecy of the Chosen One, or that Anakin's lightsaber has something to do with it (considering it was the lightsaber that prompted "It is you!"). Or that something ties the prophecy to the Skywalker family (as, of course, Rey is being drawn to them).

A lot of that stuff is similar to what I've theorised before, so it's quite exciting; I've always suspected it's possible that Rey was meant to be killed in order to avert a prophecy, but the killer couldn't bring himself to kill her, and abandoned her instead - but she would return, as prophesied figures tend to do. Oedipus style.

But my question is, who are the Knights of Rant (seems like a newish podcast?) and how do they have legit "sources" who are in a position to know something this big?

One possibility that occurs to me, btw, is that Kylo is aware of this prophesied girl and thinks she was murdered... until she turns up.
@Darth Dingbat

There is more information here about the Knights of Rant and their sources http://starwarsnonsense.tumblr.com/post/160633023954/do-you-listen-to-the-podcast-knights-of-rant-id

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