The Reproductive Imperative

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 19 May 2017, 10:47 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@AceofWands wrote:
@Tex wrote:I feel like we're going in circles here. Razz We talk ourselves up with all this amazing analysis and evidence, but at the end of the day there is just that little shred of doubt that keeps nagging at all of us. Unfortunately, it will continue to fester in the back of our minds until we get infallible proof. I want to be optimistic, but there are so many ways this could go down. I mean Rey could just adopt the name Skywalker at the end of the trilogy for all we know.

I personally prescribe to the idea that Kylo will have to father a child to continue the Skywalker lineage. It makes the most logical sense to have him paired with Rey. So I agree with Kylo Men’s original post and with what IoJovi and ISeeAnIsland added. It could be an iconic love story. There is so much potential. It would be an utter waste not to explore that route.  

Impossible to see the future is.
@Tex

I don't have any doubt that Rey and Kylo is the big romance of this trilogy.

Some people on Tumblr and other places fear that Disney could back off due to the backlash, but the reality is that the backlash is from a tiny minority that's bound to complain regardless. GA have nothing against Reylo. It's the way to make the trilogy memorable. The OT was mostly memorable because of the complex father-son dynamic, and the redemption. Without Rey and Kylo having a romance, the ST will be remembered for what?

So really, there shouldn't be the least shred of a doubt that Rey and Kylo as romantic is the big relationship in this trilogy.

And I agree with the reproduction imperative. Wow, I love the term!

@AceofWands

Exactly, re: making the trilogy memorable.

I'm reading The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. The premise is that if there's something big and important you should be doing, you're likely to feel resistance to doing it. You have an inner resistance to grabbing the bull by its horns and dealing with something so significant. The bigger the project, the more important the goal, the greater the resistance.

I think something related is going on here. People are very keen to resort to the safest possible options in their hopes and predictions. Rey finds out she's Luke's daughter, she trains for a bit (Dagobah 2.0), then goes back to Finn & Co. to have some fun adventures, and kicks Kylo's a** in a climactic duel. Then the same thing happens all over again in IX. Anything bigger and bolder meets with strong resistance. And it isn't just Reylo that meets with resistance; it's anything with an actual story attached to it. Because story requires conflict and conflict requires discomfort and risk.

The backlash is actually a good indicator of what's worth doing, IMO.
@Darth Dingbat

I've had that book on my list for a while. Please let us know what you think of it in the end. :-)
avatar
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2814
Likes : 12037
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 19 May 2017, 12:25 pm

I was thinking about something last night, as far as future trilogies or "Skywalker saga" characters go...

It's sounding more and more like Luke is going to have a huge part in the ST going forward, even if it is "Rey's story".

It would be a bit of a shame if they don't continue to have more movies with the young cast after the ST, given that it feels like the ST is being set up as a bit of a transition period. I totally get that they're "handing off" the movies from Luke & co, but it would be a bummer to create these great characters like Kylo and Rey and never use them in anything again post-ST. I'd really like to see them get a chance to shine in something on their own.

_________________
Hoping Rey is "riding solo" for the ST...
avatar
ISeeAnIsland
Moderator

Messages : 3541
Likes : 18170
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25
Localisation : Seattle, WA

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by vaderito on Fri 19 May 2017, 12:37 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I was thinking about something last night, as far as future trilogies or "Skywalker saga" characters go...

It's sounding more and more like Luke is going to have a huge part in the ST going forward, even if it is "Rey's story".

It would be a bit of a shame if they don't continue to have more movies with the young cast after the ST, given that it feels like the ST is being set up as a bit of a transition period. I totally get that they're "handing off" the movies from Luke & co, but it would be a bummer to create these great characters like Kylo and Rey and never use them in anything again post-ST. I'd really like to see them get a chance to shine in something on their own.
@ISeeAnIsland

I think that opportunities are endless now. They could be used in spin-offs. They could be used in Saga movies. I wish LF has balls and make a huge jump in the future after ST or ST period and bring Ben and Rey into those storylines, in the world that was Skywalker-less for who knows how long.
avatar
vaderito
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6699
Likes : 32480
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 19 May 2017, 1:52 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I was thinking about something last night, as far as future trilogies or "Skywalker saga" characters go...

It's sounding more and more like Luke is going to have a huge part in the ST going forward, even if it is "Rey's story".

It would be a bit of a shame if they don't continue to have more movies with the young cast after the ST, given that it feels like the ST is being set up as a bit of a transition period. I totally get that they're "handing off" the movies from Luke & co, but it would be a bummer to create these great characters like Kylo and Rey and never use them in anything again post-ST. I'd really like to see them get a chance to shine in something on their own.
@ISeeAnIsland

Sing it sister!!! Frankly, for as much as I love the OT3, none of those characters was ever as complex as Kylo already is and Rey has great potential to be. Also, for as much as I love the OT3 actors and find them to be very talented, particularly Harrison Ford, none of them have ever achieved the incredibly nuanced and complex performances that Adam Driver and Oscar Isaac have already achieved, and Daisy and John have the potential to achieve.

AD has already been cast by Soderbergh, Scorsese and the Coen Brothers (nevermind Clint Eastwood and Spielberg in small roles where AD had to share the screen with people like Daniel Day-Lewis and Leo). Oscar Isaac carried a whole movie for the Coen Brothers when he was relatively unknown and has given incredible performances in indies like A Most Violent Year. Kenneth Branaugh, a great actor/director in his own right has hired Daisy. Kathryn Bigelow has hired John as a lead. After all these years and all his success, HF has only been hired by a couple of the "auteur-ish" greats, namely Spielberg and Mike Nichols, and even Spielberg never used him for his most impressive works. Those roles went to the likes of Liam Neeson and Tom Hanks.

IOW the current cast has *enormous* potential. Every single one of them seems to have to potential to be huge standouts (in the Robert Downey Jr or Hugh Jackman vein) or beyond in any franchise future. To me it has always just seemed insane for the Disney/LF to "choose to" let these people go in the name of some previous GL inspired structure or pattern when these characters and actors have more potential than any have in the last 40 years.

Also, let's just think of mixed reception some other casting and characterization decisions have received for other franchises. There is not a bit of that here. Why cede the market to lesser product when you have the potential to really rule the franchises?

I just know that if I were KK magically on the executive team *all* of them would be signed for more movies and I would be pushing for scripts to create spinoff trajectories for each one of them and together.
avatar
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2814
Likes : 12037
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by snufkin on Fri 19 May 2017, 1:55 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I was thinking about something last night, as far as future trilogies or "Skywalker saga" characters go...

It's sounding more and more like Luke is going to have a huge part in the ST going forward, even if it is "Rey's story".

It would be a bit of a shame if they don't continue to have more movies with the young cast after the ST, given that it feels like the ST is being set up as a bit of a transition period. I totally get that they're "handing off" the movies from Luke & co, but it would be a bummer to create these great characters like Kylo and Rey and never use them in anything again post-ST. I'd really like to see them get a chance to shine in something on their own.
@ISeeAnIsland

I'd be willing to bet that along with whomever Rey's parents turn out to be and what they were up to before disappearing, there are plans for future comic books and tie-in novels about those characters in the works. The cast might be amenable in the future to doing more onscreen roles because that's $$$ to be used for other more personal projects or charity work.
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4761
Likes : 20237
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-16
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 19 May 2017, 1:58 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I was thinking about something last night, as far as future trilogies or "Skywalker saga" characters go...

It's sounding more and more like Luke is going to have a huge part in the ST going forward, even if it is "Rey's story".

It would be a bit of a shame if they don't continue to have more movies with the young cast after the ST, given that it feels like the ST is being set up as a bit of a transition period. I totally get that they're "handing off" the movies from Luke & co, but it would be a bummer to create these great characters like Kylo and Rey and never use them in anything again post-ST. I'd really like to see them get a chance to shine in something on their own.
@ISeeAnIsland

Sing it sister!!! Frankly, for as much as I love the OT3, none of those characters was ever as complex as Kylo already is and Rey has great potential to be. Also, for as much as I love the OT3 actors and find them to be very talented, particularly Harrison Ford, none of them have ever achieved the incredibly nuanced and complex performances that Adam Driver and Oscar Isaac have already achieved, and Daisy and John have the potential to achieve.

AD has already been cast by Soderbergh, Scorsese and the Coen Brothers (nevermind Clint Eastwood and Spielberg in small roles where AD had to share the screen with people like Daniel Day-Lewis and Leo). Oscar Isaac carried a whole movie for the Coen Brothers when he was relatively unknown and has given incredible performances in indies like A Most Violent Year. Kenneth Branaugh, a great actor/director in his own right has hired Daisy. Kathryn Bigelow has hired John as a lead. After all these years and all his success, HF has only been hired by a couple of the "auteur-ish" greats, namely Spielberg and Mike Nichols, and even Spielberg never used him for his most impressive works. Those roles went to the likes of Liam Neeson and Tom Hanks.

IOW the current cast has *enormous* potential. Every single one of them seems to have to potential to be huge standouts (in the Robert Downey Jr or Hugh Jackman vein) or beyond in any franchise future. To me it has always just seemed insane for the Disney/LF to "choose to" let these people go in the name of some previous GL inspired structure or pattern when these characters and actors have more potential than any have in the last 40 years.

Also, let's just think of mixed reception some other casting and characterization decisions have received for other franchises. There is not a bit of that here. Why cede the market to lesser product when you have the potential to really rule the franchises?

I just know that if I were KK magically on the executive team *all* of them would be signed for more movies and I would be pushing for scripts to create spinoff trajectories for each one of them and together.
@SoloSideCousin

Agree 100% about the cast. Adam Driver is already one of the huge promises of Hollywood and definitely Academy Award material, and the same goes for Oscar Isaac. Boyega and Daisy are still newbies, but extremely talented. It would be a waste to let them go after the sequel. Or worse: it would be a waste to use such gifted actors in a vanilla story that is nothing more than a copy of the OT. They deserve a more nuanced and complex narrative, and I hope Lucasfilm is aware of that.
avatar
Piper Maru
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 598
Likes : 4013
Date d'inscription : 2017-01-15
Age : 26
Localisation : Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Helix on Fri 19 May 2017, 2:02 pm

That's what I really like about the ST is the depth. The characters have so much potential and depth that isn't in the OT. It's also why other sites bore me because people don't want to talk about that depth, just the really basic plot points and ideas.
avatar
Helix
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2012
Likes : 7382
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 19 May 2017, 2:16 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I was thinking about something last night, as far as future trilogies or "Skywalker saga" characters go...

It's sounding more and more like Luke is going to have a huge part in the ST going forward, even if it is "Rey's story".

It would be a bit of a shame if they don't continue to have more movies with the young cast after the ST, given that it feels like the ST is being set up as a bit of a transition period. I totally get that they're "handing off" the movies from Luke & co, but it would be a bummer to create these great characters like Kylo and Rey and never use them in anything again post-ST. I'd really like to see them get a chance to shine in something on their own.
@ISeeAnIsland

I'd be willing to bet that along with whomever Rey's parents turn out to be and what they were up to before disappearing, there are plans for future comic books and tie-in novels about those characters in the works. The cast might be amenable in the future to doing more onscreen roles because that's $$$ to be used for other more personal projects or charity work.
@snufkin

Oh yeah, and Mark Hamill pretty much said as much at Celebration--although his comment was in relation to what Luke was up to between RoTJ and TFA. But I can't see them not doing the same for Rey's parents (especially when Galen Erso got his own spinoff novel).

And as far as future movies go... I had been pretty skeptical about Adam Driver coming back for another trilogy, given his private nature, but he seems to be warming up to fame (and hell, he did that Snickers commercial), so while he might not ever commit another 6-9 years of his life to a full-on trilogy, I could see him going the Hugh Jackman route and do a Wolverine-esque spin-off or two.

_________________
Hoping Rey is "riding solo" for the ST...
avatar
ISeeAnIsland
Moderator

Messages : 3541
Likes : 18170
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25
Localisation : Seattle, WA

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by snufkin on Fri 19 May 2017, 2:25 pm

@ISeeAnIsland - I used to work with a woman who was a huge musical theater fan and any time Jackman appeared on Broadway, she'd fly out to New York to see the show. She could care less about X-Man, but said that she figured he did those movies in part because it gave him the financial resources and name recognition to get those shows produced.

Yeah it's a slightly cynical conclusion on my part, but we know that LF was already a merchandising juggernaut and even moreso under Disney. So there's simply no way in Hell just based on past behavior, let alone how the bulk of Jyn's story was deferred to novels, that they're just going to have it turn out that Rey's parents were a pair of nobodies. They hopefully won't repeat a similar story to what was created for R1 (and everything that turned out for Jyn was close to what I assumed would be Rey's backstory after my first viewing), but it has to be interesting people doing something significant which ties into the main Force plot for the ST. Ergo a big part of why I think her parents got mixed up with Snoke and the FO and were killed as a result. That and it'll be tied in with Kylo finally breaking with Snoke and motivation/sympathy towards allying with Rey.
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4761
Likes : 20237
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-16
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by snufkin on Fri 19 May 2017, 7:58 pm

Friend just posted this to Facebook and it seems on target (I'd go with "I've got a bad feeling about this" or "I can show you the ways of the Force.")


avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4761
Likes : 20237
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-16
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 19 May 2017, 8:25 pm

@snufkin I'm going with "Do or do not. There is no try." Razz
avatar
Cowgirlsamurai
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 298
Likes : 1405
Date d'inscription : 2017-03-30
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Armadeus on Fri 19 May 2017, 10:30 pm

@snufkin wrote:Friend just posted this to Facebook and it seems on target (I'd go with "I've got a bad feeling about this" or "I can show you the ways of the Force.")



'It must have short-circuited' Razz

'I don't think he exists anymore'
avatar
Armadeus
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 993
Likes : 2719
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28
Localisation : Seychelles

https://www.fictionpress.com/u/564105/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by WhatGirl on Fri 19 May 2017, 10:41 pm

@snufkin wrote:Friend just posted this to Facebook and it seems on target (I'd go with "I've got a bad feeling about this" or "I can show you the ways of the Force.")


@snufkin

"In the morning you go." Razz
avatar
WhatGirl
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1081
Likes : 10547
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 20 May 2017, 12:35 am

"I'am your father!"
(daddy kink)

Just joking.
lol!
avatar
Darth_Awakened
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2904
Likes : 13154
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by DarthRen on Sat 20 May 2017, 3:16 am

@AceofWands wrote:
@Tex wrote:I feel like we're going in circles here. Razz We talk ourselves up with all this amazing analysis and evidence, but at the end of the day there is just that little shred of doubt that keeps nagging at all of us. Unfortunately, it will continue to fester in the back of our minds until we get infallible proof. I want to be optimistic, but there are so many ways this could go down. I mean Rey could just adopt the name Skywalker at the end of the trilogy for all we know.

I personally prescribe to the idea that Kylo will have to father a child to continue the Skywalker lineage. It makes the most logical sense to have him paired with Rey. So I agree with Kylo Men’s original post and with what IoJovi and ISeeAnIsland added. It could be an iconic love story. There is so much potential. It would be an utter waste not to explore that route.  

Impossible to see the future is.
@Tex

I don't have any doubt that Rey and Kylo is the big romance of this trilogy.

Some people on Tumblr and other places fear that Disney could back off due to the backlash, but the reality is that the backlash is from a tiny minority that's bound to complain regardless. GA have nothing against Reylo. It's the way to make the trilogy memorable. The OT was mostly memorable because of the complex father-son dynamic, and the redemption. Without Rey and Kylo having a romance, the ST will be remembered for what?

So really, there shouldn't be the least shred of a doubt that Rey and Kylo as romantic is the big relationship in this trilogy.

And I agree with the reproduction imperative. Wow, I love the term!

@AceofWands

Death of Han Solo.
Fall of Kylo Ren and redemption of Ben Solo.
Snoke and his plan we don't know yet.
Jedi's might go different ways.
Purpose of the Force and what really were Luke and Ben doing years ago before these events which it's tied into.
Leia's arc and for that matter Luke's.
New generations of heroes Poe, Finn are rising throught the ranks of Ressistance.
Rey itself.

While I hope for Kylo/Ben and Rey romance. There's quite a bit of things this ST trilogy will be remembered for by the fans.
avatar
DarthRen
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 406
Likes : 1165
Date d'inscription : 2016-12-05
Age : 27
Localisation : Czech Republic

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by AceofWands on Sat 20 May 2017, 7:55 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@AceofWands wrote:

I don't have any doubt that Rey and Kylo is the big romance of this trilogy.

Some people on Tumblr and other places fear that Disney could back off due to the backlash, but the reality is that the backlash is from a tiny minority that's bound to complain regardless. GA have nothing against Reylo. It's the way to make the trilogy memorable. The OT was mostly memorable because of the complex father-son dynamic, and the redemption. Without Rey and Kylo having a romance, the ST will be remembered for what?

So really, there shouldn't be the least shred of a doubt that Rey and Kylo as romantic is the big relationship in this trilogy.

And I agree with the reproduction imperative. Wow, I love the term!

@AceofWands

Death of Han Solo.
Fall of Kylo Ren and redemption of Ben Solo.
Snoke and his plan we don't know yet.
Jedi's might go different ways.
Purpose of the Force and what really were Luke and Ben doing years ago before these events which it's tied into.
Leia's arc and for that matter Luke's.
New generations of heroes Poe, Finn are rising throught the ranks of Ressistance.
Rey itself.

While I hope for Kylo/Ben and Rey romance. There's quite a bit of things this ST trilogy will be remembered for by the fans.
@DarthRen

I think there's a difference between a movie series having things people remember are in it and a movie series being memorable.

Had the OT not had the father-son dynamic, I'm sure people would still remember the trench run, the cool princess, the lightsabers and the force, and for sure it would have been a beloved sci-fi series, but I really doubt it would have had the impact it had.

A movie (or movie series) to be memorable, needs to have an emotional impact. From the list of topics you posted, most of them don't have any emotional impact and are not that different from other movies.

The only one that I agree could have an emotional impact is Kylo's redemption. It's sad now cause I don't think we'll have Leia, and a mother-son reunion and perhaps forgiveness could be epic, but there's still the Luke-Kylo relationship. Ok, that could be interesting and memorable on its own without Reylo, but then if Rey is not involved in the series' most important arc, what's her role then? Wasn't she supposed to be the protagonist? It doesn't make a lot of sense. And her involvement needs to be emotional. Since she's not his family (which could have been cool), what's it then?

The PT lacks such an emotional impact. While lots of people love it and there's a generation that grew up with it and might not even know the OT, it's still super tied to the mythos of the OT. Anakin's complex relationship with Obi-Wan is kind of cool, but I feel it was under explored. TCW explores it beautifully, though. Anyways, yes, people remember the battle droids, people remember the cringeworthy dialogue, damn it "I hate sand" might be one of the most famous lines in cinema history! Very Happy People remember the Mustafar fight (epic in its own way), people remember Darth Maul. It's still different from being memorable.
avatar
AceofWands
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 339
Likes : 1117
Date d'inscription : 2016-09-11
Age : 32

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by MeadowofAshes on Mon 22 May 2017, 6:38 pm

"At that speed, do you think you'll be able to pull out in time?" JK Very Happy

"Don't be afraid; I feel it too."
avatar
MeadowofAshes
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1432
Likes : 7874
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by SheLitAFire on Mon 22 May 2017, 10:20 pm

@MeadowofAshes wrote:"At that speed, do you think you'll be able to pull out in time?" JK Very Happy

"Don't be afraid; I feel it too."
@MeadowofAshes

oh. my. goodness. lol!
avatar
SheLitAFire
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 183
Likes : 689
Date d'inscription : 2016-09-15
Age : 30
Localisation : United States

Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum