The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

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The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by WhatGirl on Wed 7 Jun - 15:42

I did not see a thread for this topic so if one already exists, apologies for the duplicate and please feel free to delete.

Many of us here believe and hope for Reylo to become canon in some way, although what that means exactly per individual can vary widely. But what if it doesn't happen? What does this mean for the story direction? We know what we saw in TFA, but as we've recently learned, the story is not mapped out from start to finish as we'd initially thought. Changes are also being made along the way, especially if something isn't working.

Kylo's villainous crush on Rey, which was so visible and obvious to some of us, could be completely absent in TLJ and IX. Reasons for this could be given such as that his feelings changed when she disgraced him in battle, or the completion of his dark side training with Snoke will suppress or alter those emotions. There is also the possibility that Rey will simply never come to develop romantic feelings for Kylo, regardless of his redemption and no matter how he might feel for her.

On the other hand, there is an undefined bond connecting Kylo and Rey together, entwining their destinies. This is a cold hard fact that gets repeated several times in the official Star Wars databank which appears in the profiles and galleries for both characters. There is not yet any further clarification on what this mysterious connection could mean aside from the truth that Kylo and Rey will be somehow important to each other in the future.

With the implications of a possible Force connection binding these two characters together, what sort of a relationship do you see Kylo and Rey having in TLJ and IX if there is to be no love story featuring them at all? And what would the lack of a Kylo/Rey romance mean for the future of the Skywalker saga?
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Wed 7 Jun - 16:08

A good question. Unless they describe the "alternative route" very well I'd honestly be just as perplexed as I was from the Luke & Leia kiss. Having him carry her like a bride, then get all up into her face, then a connection - all this build up for... I dunno, Anakin and Ahsoka?

That would also mean that Rey's role has to be gradually reduced in the upcoming movies since Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is the Skywalker of the trilogy (even though - in Pablo Hidalgos words - paste-eaters say otherwise). But why make her the lead role just to let her go two movies later? On the other hand her character did receive a lot of criticism so she could be made the sacrificial lamb of this trilogy...

I dunno. After what I've seen in VII, it doesn't make much sense to me that they'd be eternal rivals. Them looking back at each other over the cliff after the ground splits apart? The heartbeat sound effect when they do? Hell, he's even worried in the junior novelization that she's gonna die on that planet.

I mean I never expected full-blown lovey dovey romance in VIII. But absolutely nothing in future movies at all? Unless instant-trust-making is Rey's force superpower it seems very weird to me. It just doesn't add up.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 7 Jun - 16:13

If Reylo never happens The Skywalkers are pretty much doomed. (And I don't like that outcome at all).

Because Rey is not related to them, and I find highly unbelievable they' re going to invent some other LI for Kylo.

So, if they have really decided to kill Sky-family for good - I think they would go with some sort of the spiritual thing between Rey and Kylo.
At this point  there's no deeper conflict between Kylo and Rey (the existence of which was like the TRADE MARK of SW: son vs. father, friend vs. friend). They're enemies but at the surface level, almost by coincidence.
I do believe though that there will be something between the two of them on much deeper level. And I admit I'am pretty clueless what it would be (there are several possibilities from what we know so far: Rey's mysterious connection to the Force is somehow also connected to Kylo, Rey learning the truth about his fall  and Luke's involvement in that, etc..).

As you wrote SW Databank (and the teaser poster) is clear enough on the fact that definitely some sort of connection is in question and her relationship and conflict with Ren will be important.

BTW, I definitely still believe Reylo is very possible in a romantic way, especially in EP IX or at very end of it (as Rey and Kylo choosing their own path with some sort of changed Jedi's  way.)


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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Wed 7 Jun - 16:16

But Kathleen Kennedy said Star Wars would always be about the Skywalkers. Maybe they'll go the easy route and let Kylo Ren have a romance off-screen instead?
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 7 Jun - 16:18

I could have seen an argument for an unrequited villainous crush on Kylo's part that ultimately leads to self-sacrifice (along the lines of Sydney Carton) at the end of the trilogy...but that would mean the end of the Skywalkers. (Granted, LF could decide to end the Skywalker saga with IX.)

HOWEVER, given Rian's words to Vanity Fair that any romance in TLJ wouldn't be an unrequited crush make me think that they won't go this route.

I do think that the villainous crush will likely be put on the back burner a bit for TLJ while Kylo deals with the emotional fallout from TFA, etc.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 7 Jun - 16:20

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I could have seen an argument for an unrequited villainous crush on Kylo's part that ultimately leads to self-sacrifice (along the lines of Sydney Carton) at the end of the trilogy...but that would mean the end of the Skywalkers. (Granted, LF could decide to end the Skywalker saga with IX.)

HOWEVER, given Rian's words to Vanity Fair that any romance in TLJ wouldn't be an unrequited crush make me think that they won't go this route.

I do think that the villainous crush will likely be put on the back burner a bit for TLJ while Kylo deals with the emotional fallout from TFA, etc.
@ISeeAnIsland

I agree. The bolded seems to be Kylo's top priority for TLJ.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Wed 7 Jun - 16:20

Even after RomanceGate, I'm still pretty staunch that Reylo will be romantic in some way, especially given that the majority of the audience is wondering how Rey will fit into the Skywalker saga. If she's not blood related, that only leaves one other option. Your last question says it all, and I do not think for a second Disney bought LF for 1 billion dollars, only to end the saga of the Skywalkers. Sure, one option would be for Rey to still be his motivation for redemption and him finally getting over her, moving onto someone else, but how fulfilling of an ending is that? It's mediocre, and not worthy of an epic saga like Star Wars where three movies have to tie in together somehow.

I know PlotGate came around as kind of a sharp kick in the heels, especially when it happened so shortly after RomanceGate, causing many of us to question everything. However, if we consider the timeline with JJ's DVD commentary (which points a direct arrow right at Romantic Reylo), along with the SW database update, all of this stuff came out after filming was wrapped for TLJ. It was already set in stone, and you also have JJ going on heavily about how great TLJ is, and how he wishes he directed it himself. It tells me that Rian him communicated extensively, and he's carrying on with his vision. The only thing RomanceGate did was lessen my expectation for a kiss, and I think we are getting a very slow burn of a romance, which will probably pick up speed in IX. A kiss is still not off the table, particularly if they use it as the #IAmYourFather moment, in a way that shocks the audience.

I do think PlotGate is being exaggerated by the creators to increase the level of the mystery box (aka anything can happen). I'm not saying that the writers aren't being given a wide range of creative license, but I have to believe some obvious points have been mapped out, like how Rey fits into the whole story that surrounds the Skywalker family. Her parantage has already been determined, which has been stated in several interviews already, and it's known throughout the story team and some of the cast (mainly Daisy). That's a previously mapped out plot point, so you can't tell me they don't exist at all.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Wed 7 Jun - 16:23

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:(Granted, LF could decide to end the Skywalker saga with IX.)
@ISeeAnIsland

I hope not. That would kill the entire appeal of the series for me to be honest. Neutral

Gosh, it can't be that hard for a character to reproduce in the SW universe. They could clone him. Or just go full Revan, freeze him for a few centuries and then make a new ladyfriend in another age as a changed man.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 7 Jun - 16:26

@Rimfaxe96 wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:(Granted, LF could decide to end the Skywalker saga with IX.)
@ISeeAnIsland

I hope not. That would kill the entire appeal of the series for me to be honest. Neutral

Gosh, it can't be that hard for a character to reproduce in the SW universe. They could clone him. Or just go full Revan, freeze him for a few centuries and then make a new ladyfriend in another age as a changed man.
@Rimfaxe96

Episodes X-XIII: Starring a Luke clone made from his severed hand!!!

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by AppleCrumble122 on Wed 7 Jun - 16:29




Episodes X-XIII:  Starring a Luke clone made from his severed hand!!!
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That actually did happen in the EU. Luke getting cloned from his hand, that is. Wink
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by snufkin on Wed 7 Jun - 16:30

The thing about talking up how they have a story group and are doing better with continuity/peer review so that you don't get a "WTF" moment on the level of "guess what? She's his sister!" Granted the villainous crush flew over a lot of peoples' heads. But it's there and the question becomes why did you put that there along with a bridal carry if it eventually becomes people who merely tolerate each other?

At a baseline, just having it play out the way most of us thought it was meant to be - two characters who each other's foil/catalyst, her ending up having conflicted/empathetic feelings towards him,  and him being more complicated than "eeeeevvvuuuul" (read that aloud to yourself in a Simon & Hecubus voice). That's my good enough after 18 months of reading condescending remarks from "true fans" insisting that it "has to be" Reywalker killing her awful emo cousin.

Also never thought he'd end up getting killed off but now with the question of Carrie Fisher's death, cue the same contingent likely complaining that the redemption we all saw from the beginning was added because of her death. Never mind the argument all along that if the writers show how much this one character, who's lost everything down to her record collection, loves her son and wants him back no matter what, you damn well better do that for her. Doubly so after Carrie's death.

I do think if it doesn't turn out to be romantic, that's okay but a bit of a tiny shame because their interactions are really when the two characters are at their best. They do that to each other. And it's not nearly as bad as Han and Leia, but there is a tiny bit of comedy gold in how he tries so hard to be macho and bossy with her and she ain't buying it, no sir. Also spend all that $$$ on a wildly romantic location show where classics like the Quiet Man and Ryan's Daughter are set, kind of a shame.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 7 Jun - 16:30

They can end Skywalkers of course, but from this perspective I can't think of any outcome with all Skywalkers dead that won't make me depressed in that case.
I mean VERY depressed! lol
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Wed 7 Jun - 16:32

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:Episodes X-XIII:  Starring a Luke clone made from his severed hand!!!
@ISeeAnIsland

Or maybe they could pull off a Jak & Daxter; someone travels into the past, takes young Ben Solo and hides him in another timeline until he learns the skills he needs to defeat Snoke/so he remains unharmed by the dark side. Although I do hate time travel in movies; a videogame has three times as much time to go into the details of this. A movie at best 20 minutes.

For now I still believe Kylo will follow Zuko's path. Worst possible deed - check. Now all that's left are soul searching journey + revelation that he fluffed up (1st part of the 3rd season of Avatar - The Last Airbender), followed by joining and actively working for "the good guys" (the last episodes of the 3rd season). Wasn't there a MSW leak saying that Rey is captured at the end of VIII anyway? What if next time it isn't Finn coming back for her, but Kylo Ren?

Granted, Zuko's path doesn't necessarily require romance either. It just happened on the side in his story anyway, from a romance interest established in his childhood via flashbacks. If that happens and they'll just team up to defeat Snoke then I do expect a new love interest to show up in the next trilogy.


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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 7 Jun - 16:35

Anakin and Ahsoka... that's a good comparison.

Of course important relationships and interesting dynamics can come in all shapes and sizes, but I've said before that Reylo is a "go big or go home" type of story, and I stand by that. That's the way it started out in TFA: electric, explosive, imbued with heavy symbolism. They had the potential to tell an epic story here, and I just refuse to believe they'd water that down for... what, exactly? RO wasn't safe. It "went big" with that ending. And stopping short of the epic in the ST wouldn't even be "safe", it would just be vaguely disappointing, and quite out of place standing next to the OT and the PT which are both "big" stories.

So what's a "big" connection? Parent and child, siblings, life-long friends who become enemies? Random soulmates united for a purpose?

The Force uniting these two people for a purpose seems likely to me, but what's the most simple and effective way to "go big" with a story of soulmates? Why, romance, of course. Frankly I can't imagine how they'd pull off a convincing soul bond without some romance in a story like this. Something's got to make them cross that bridge and work on that connection. Something's got to make them want to. Something's got to make the audience want it. They don't have 30 TV episodes to show a developing understanding and friendship. So again, what's the most simple and effective way to make the "mysterious connection" compelling and "big"?

But, you know, as someone said before - there was apparently "no romance" in RO, and we got the elevator scene and the heartbreaking embrace on the beach. With this in mind, I await with interest what exactly the non-central "you'll have to see" romance is like in TLJ.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Wed 7 Jun - 16:36

@Darth_Awakened wrote:They can end Skywalkers of course, but from this perspective I can't think of any outcome with all Skywalkers dead that won't make me depressed in that case.
I mean VERY depressed! lol
@Darth_Awakened

Same here - I'm sure there's a plausible way they could make it work, but I'm in it to see what was foreshadowed in TFA to come to fruition. When I saw those two juxtaposed in those choker shots after he gives her that awkward marriage proposal, I knew what it meant and where they were going, and my mouth dropped wide open.  They had better deliver on that!!!

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Wed 7 Jun - 16:46

@Darth Dingbat wrote:But, you know, as someone said before - there was apparently "no romance" in RO, and we got the elevator scene and the heartbreaking embrace on the beach. With this in mind, I await with interest what exactly the non-central "you'll have to see" romance is like in TLJ.
@Darth Dingbat

Ugh. I'd rather have no romance at all than two characters just randomly showing affection for one another out of nowhere. I'll never understand the appeal of RO (besides those few minutes of Vader).

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 7 Jun - 16:47

For all of the anti- activity elsewhere on the internet, I would like to point out that after Han and Leia, Rey and Kylo Ren were far and away the most popular couples' cosplay at Star Wars Celebration two months ago.

What Rian needs to do is get the audience on Kylo's side and get them rooting for him. When that happens, I think that most of the GA is going to love the idea of Reylo and is going to be cheering for a Reylo kiss.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Wed 7 Jun - 17:01

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:For all of the anti- activity elsewhere on the internet, I would like to point out that after Han and Leia, Rey and Kylo Ren were far and away the most popular couples' cosplay at Star Wars Celebration two months ago.

What Rian needs to do is get the audience on Kylo's side and get them rooting for him. When that happens, I think that most of the GA is going to love the idea of Reylo and is going to be cheering for a Reylo kiss.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yeah sometimes I forget the nature of the Internet, and that it's not reflective of how real life people actually think.  I too was encouraged by how many Reylo couples there were, not only saber fighting with each other, but posing together in rather romantic poses as well.  It was awesome to see that in person.  

And yes, I do see VIII covering the majority of Kylo's sympathetic backstory, only to throw the story in the direction of Reylo at the very end not long before the credits roll.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Wed 7 Jun - 17:14

I have thought about a non-romantic connection, like something more spiritual through the force, but it's hard to picture when the actors have such great potential for romantic chemistry. If it's made clear that Rey wants to become an old school Jedi, eschewing romantic relationships as we presume Luke has, then I guess their connection will have to be something force related.

The continuation of the Skywalker line could be done in a number of ways such as cloning, a long lost love for Kylo/Ben, a surprise Skywalker, a different time period showing the Skywalkers that led up to Shmi etc, this is science fiction fantasy after all!
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 7 Jun - 17:34

@Darth Dingbat wrote:Anakin and Ahsoka... that's a good comparison.

Of course important relationships and interesting dynamics can come in all shapes and sizes, but I've said before that Reylo is a "go big or go home" type of story, and I stand by that. That's the way it started out in TFA: electric, explosive, imbued with heavy symbolism. They had the potential to tell an epic story here, and I just refuse to believe they'd water that down for... what, exactly? RO wasn't safe. It "went big" with that ending. And stopping short of the epic in the ST wouldn't even be "safe", it would just be vaguely disappointing, and quite out of place standing next to the OT and the PT which are both "big" stories.

So what's a "big" connection? Parent and child, siblings, life-long friends who become enemies? Random soulmates united for a purpose?

The Force uniting these two people for a purpose seems likely to me, but what's the most simple and effective way to "go big" with a story of soulmates? Why, romance, of course. Frankly I can't imagine how they'd pull off a convincing soul bond without some romance in a story like this. Something's got to make them cross that bridge and work on that connection. Something's got to make them want to. Something's got to make the audience want it. They don't have 30 TV episodes to show a developing understanding and friendship. So again, what's the most simple and effective way to make the "mysterious connection" compelling and "big"?

But, you know, as someone said before - there was apparently "no romance" in RO, and we got the elevator scene and the heartbreaking embrace on the beach. With this in mind, I await with interest what exactly the non-central "you'll have to see" romance is like in TLJ.
@Darth Dingbat

Anakin/Ahsoka is really the only non-romantic connection that I could see working (outside of whatever Force connection they've set up). I do feel that they really set up a potential teacher/student dynamic between the two of them, given Rey "learning" by pulling things out of Kylo's head, and then, of course, "You need a teacher!"

My guess is they'd then retcon the villainous crush into Kylo being overly interested in her because he sensed her special connection to the Force or whatever.

But given Adam and Daisy's chemistry, I still think a teacher/student relationship would probably be fairly heavy with UST, even if it's never acted on in the ST.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Geralt_Riv on Wed 7 Jun - 17:46

@AppleCrumble122 wrote:



Episodes X-XIII:  Starring a Luke clone made from his severed hand!!!
@ISeeAnIsland

That actually did happen in the EU. Luke getting cloned from his hand, that is. Wink
@AppleCrumble122

This is one of the reasons I didn't like post RotJ EU stories. Jaina killing her brother is another one. Killing family member for the greater good don't feel Star Warsy to me. And add Palpatine's and Luke's clones to that. Just no! Evil or Very Mad I was always more invested in stories that take place during trilogyies timelines and The Old Republic era. Please Lucacasfilm, bring Revan back to canon, show us the canon story of Darth Bane and Darth Plagueis. Approves

Back on topic. I agree that their relationship could be simillar to Anakin and Ahsoka dynamics. Creative storytellers can make their interactions compeling and intiguing even without making them friends at the end. The only thing that would be disappinting to me would be no redemption arc for Ben. I think it is the best way to go after what has happened in TFA.

Big yes from me for Kylo to have Zuko's path. I could see Rey and Kylo's relationship going like Avatar and Zuko. And add Kylo's apologies to Luke for what he has done just like Zuko apologised to Iroh, his uncle. I would love that. Approves
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by AppleCrumble122 on Wed 7 Jun - 17:52

@Geralt_Riv wrote:
@AppleCrumble122 wrote:



Episodes X-XIII:  Starring a Luke clone made from his severed hand!!!
@ISeeAnIsland

That actually did happen in the EU. Luke getting cloned from his hand, that is. Wink
@AppleCrumble122

This is one of the reasons I didn't like post RotJ EU stories. Jaina killing her brother is another one. Killing family member for the greater good don't feel Star Warsy to me. And add Palpatine's and Luke's clones to that. Just no! Evil or Very Mad I was always more invested in stories that take place during trilogyies timelines and The Old Republic era. Please Lucacasfilm, bring Revan back to canon, show us the canon story of Darth Bane and Darth Plagueis. Approves

@Geralt_Riv

Off-topic, eh I didn't mind the cloning thing. It made sense for the story at the time, considering the original backstory for the Clone Wars at the time were a huge experiment of clones going insane and rebelling against the Republic, starting the conflict. But I totally agree with everything else! Jacen vs Jaina was a huge mess! Another reason why Rey and Kylo aren't related, nor should they be considering all the info released after TFA. Also LF, please bring back Mara Jade!
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Sacrebleu on Wed 7 Jun - 17:58

I've wondered if perhaps Reylo will be something that doesn't happen until the end of IX or even is only hinted at by the end of IX. And then the next trilogy features their child or children. In other words, most of Reylo happens off screen between trilogies. But that seems such a waste of potential.

For a long time I've thought Reylo was very likely because they wouldn't let the Skywalker line die out and I didn't believe Rey was a Skywalker. Yes, they could go the cloning route, but Star Wars is very much about family and I'd guess few people would find that appealing. They could produce a surprise Skywalker from somewhere else, but why do that when they already have a Skywalker directly descended from Anakin and Padme and closely related to the OT trio? Han and Leia are iconic figures in the franchise and they have only one child, so why waste him? They could also let the Skywalkers go extinct, but that seems a risky move and why take that risk when they don't have to?

It's really going to come down to what a bunch of people in positions of power think. And as we've seen in fandom, the thoughts people have about all this run all over the map.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by snufkin on Wed 7 Jun - 18:02

If it turns out to be something like student-teacher, I can't even go film nerd on that one because I've watched that story happen on at least more than one soap opera. And they always end up as a couple after a huge amount of drama and angst.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 7 Jun - 18:06

@snufkin wrote:If it turns out to be something like student-teacher, I can't even go film nerd on that one because I've watched that story happen on at least more than one soap opera. And they always end up as a couple after a huge amount of drama and angst.
@snufkin

Oh I agree. I could see teacher/student between Kylo and Rey turning into Dirty Dancing in Space very quickly. But, I guess, if they want to keep romance out of it, they could. I don't see how they could keep the UST out of it, though.

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