The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 2 Jul - 11:42

Darth Dementor wrote:
Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
DarthRen wrote:Just to add about the impact of their relationship.

One of my very dear friends who loves them, can understand their loneliness and sense of wanting to belong somewhere and to someone. Her parents gave her up for adoption when she was a baby. She went from one family to another, having this feeling like being a stranger. She loves most of all Rey who she can sympathize most with, but also Kylo for her parents to give up and being confused and bit angry child.

So to her and many people out there it's not about she's hot, he's hot get them together, Jedi's yay or supporing abuse relationship like antis are saying. She sees the light at the end of the dark tunnel and the struggle of two confused, hurted and lonely people. This aspect is very important because a lot of people can see part of themselves in Kylo and Rey, Adam certainly can.

I gotta bring her here because she has so many wonderful ideas, but tries to stay away from social media in regards to Reylo. She understands the amount of hate it can lead to - if people are ignoring or misunderstanding our views and what we really sees in them.
@DarthRen


I don't blame your friend. I also refrain from mentioning Reylo on social media completely. Most of my "friends" disapproved of TFA so if someone threw out the idea that Rey and Kylo might get together, their eyes would be rolling back in their heads. That's why I've come to this place. If things do end up romantic, I'll totally come out of the closet on FB like, "I KNEW IT!" But right now, I just don't want to get looked down on for wanting epic romance thrown in to their manly space movies.

I also don't ship Rey and Kylo because I think they're good looking, and I don't think them being attractive hints at a romance happening between the two. I think good looking actors were chosen because they're main parts in a hugely popular film series. Rey and Finn look good together, heck, Rey and Poe look good together, but there wouldn't be much meaning in these unions story wise.

Sorry if this post is rambly and poorly written. I have 30 pounds of dead weight sleeping on top of me while my head is tilted 90 degrees to the left, and I'm typing on my phone with my only free hand, lol.
@Cowgirlsamurai

Same here.  I brought up Reylo once in a different forum and World War III broke out.  There's enough push back just from disproving Rey is Luke's daughter but then throw in she will end up with the guy who killed Han Bloody Solo and it's to much for the fanboys with their built in, entitled, head canons to bear.  

Nowadays if I talk about TFA, outside of our friendly confines, I keep it to Rey's parentage (mainly who is NOT her family, on my part) because that is the big question the casual fan/audience seems to go on about.  At least then it only turns into a slap fight as opposed to a knife fight if we disagree LOL.  

@Darth Dementor

Yes, Rey's parents are all anyone else wants to talk about anyway, and they just can't wrap their heads around the possibility that she might not be Luke's. And when I say "manly space movies," it's not just guys defending their right to emo-free action movies, it's women too. I know a lot of ladies who complained about Kylo in TFA. He killed Han, but otherwise isn't bad*** enough so he just needs to die. I would never bring Reylo up in that crowd.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 3 Jul - 16:26

I don't see any tear or watery eyes in the poster and I'd say make-up is usually involved, no? The term "guyliner" always makes me laugh. The first time I heard that word was in OUAT and it was Regina speaking to Hook, whose consumption of guyline is obviously high. I also cannot really say I see sadness. Anger and rage it is not, that's for sure, but it's difficult to say what he's feeling or rather what feelings AD wanted to convey. Being fond of some mysteries left unsolved, I like it that his expression cannot be precisely defined. You know, these pixels tend to take the shape you want them to especially when they try to reproduce some method actors' facial expressions. Kylo is SW's Mona Lisa Very Happy

@Darth Dementor, as a man, you must even get more sith when you mention Reylo. I don't mention Reylo outside of this forum. It makes me actually a bit nervous that someone outside of this forum might find out I am here. I can see how people will draw the conclusion that I am a full romantic Reylo. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a romantic Reylo, but the fact is that I am not so it's a bit annoying when you get mislabeled and, on top of it, it overshadows your general SW appreciation in the eyes of others. I mean I already have the label "Kylo fangirl" which has people dismiss me as non-worthy SW fan. It is funny considering I had to explain to a couple of guys who consider themselves fans that the EU is not canon. So who's the "real" SW fan here? But then I mostly don't care except for the occasional conflict with wuss-man - a colleague who is quite vehement in calling Kylo a wuss. I like to keep some of my pasttimes private. Having a "private garden" as we say in French has the advantage that no one will trample it or tell you how it should look like.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Mon 3 Jul - 17:25

SanghaRen wrote:I don't see any tear or watery eyes in the poster and I'd say make-up is usually involved, no? The term "guyliner" always makes me laugh. The first time I heard that word was in OUAT and it was Regina speaking to Hook, whose consumption of guyline is obviously high. I also cannot really say I see sadness. Anger and rage it is not, that's for sure, but it's difficult to say what he's feeling or rather what feelings AD wanted to convey. Being fond of some mysteries left unsolved, I like it that his expression cannot be precisely defined. You know, these pixels tend to take the shape you want them to especially when they try to reproduce some method actors' facial expressions. Kylo is SW's Mona Lisa Very Happy

@Darth Dementor, as a man, you must even get more sith when you mention Reylo. I don't mention Reylo outside of this forum. It makes me actually a bit nervous that someone outside of this forum might find out I am here. I can see how people will draw the conclusion that I am a full romantic Reylo. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a romantic Reylo, but the fact is that I am not so it's a bit annoying when you get mislabeled and, on top of it, it overshadows your general SW appreciation in the eyes of others. I mean I already have the label "Kylo fangirl" which has people dismiss me as non-worthy SW fan. It is funny considering I had to explain to a couple of guys who consider themselves fans that the EU is not canon. So who's the "real" SW fan here? But then I mostly don't care except for the occasional conflict with wuss-man - a colleague who is quite vehement in calling Kylo a wuss. I like to keep some of my pasttimes private. Having a "private garden" as we say in French has the advantage that no one will trample it or tell you how it should look like.
@SanghaRen

I'm one of those who is very inclined towards romantic Reylo. As far as social media goes, I keep my love for it strictly restricted to this site. If someone directly asks me for my opinion of TFA and where the story is headed I'll give it, but for the most part I keep it to myself. I will post general SW stuff on my FB page, but never anything that gives away my inclinations. I guess I must have been posting a lot because someone privately sent me a funny Ruke oriented meme, making the very hilarious assumption I was a Reywalker. I quickly corrected them...
lol!

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by WhatGirl on Sat 22 Jul - 2:14

I found this amazing theory on a possible 'knight and his lady' bond between Kylo and Rey - https://psy-kylo-gy.tumblr.com/post/163259895804/jediwhinetrick-psy-kylo-gy-while-im-99

They have already hinted in the SW database that Kylo will become “loyal” to Rey, like a knight is loyal to his queen. I’m really leaning towards a Force Bond but we shall see. “It is you!” is pretty much foreshadowing an alliance with this powerful girl he somehow knows about and obviously admires. He was literally disobeying his own master and threatening his own safety to be Rey’s teacher. His ENEMY!!! His weakness for her is already so beautifully apparent and Snoke will try to beat it/scare it out of him, but I think when he meets Rey again that loyalty will emerge stronger than ever. I believe their dynamic will be just as interesting if they’re Force bonded allies or even teacher/student. They would understand and communicate with each other in ways no one else could. They are forever linked, two halves of a whole, yin & yang working together for the sake of the galaxy. No kissing required. Not that romance couldn’t naturally sprout from nurturing that connection… because it totally could. And the mutual physical attraction is already there…

Credit to @psy-kylo-gy

This would be such an interesting and satisfying connection between two former enemies - Kylo becoming a loyal knight to Rey. I really love this concept and we can already see elements of that in the movie, such as when he crouches before Rey as she sleeps. He is also shown kneeling on the pinball machine but we don't know yet to whom. And it is true that it gets implied in the databank that his loyalties will change ("Ren swore he was loyal only to Snoke, but he was intrigued by Rey..."). I think if they're not going the romance route (which I would still prefer 100%) then this could work as an alternative. Smile
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 22 Jul - 2:21

WhatGirl wrote:I found this amazing theory on a possible 'knight and his lady' bond between Kylo and Rey - https://psy-kylo-gy.tumblr.com/post/163259895804/jediwhinetrick-psy-kylo-gy-while-im-99

They have already hinted in the SW database that Kylo will become “loyal” to Rey, like a knight is loyal to his queen. I’m really leaning towards a Force Bond but we shall see. “It is you!” is pretty much foreshadowing an alliance with this powerful girl he somehow knows about and obviously admires. He was literally disobeying his own master and threatening his own safety to be Rey’s teacher. His ENEMY!!! His weakness for her is already so beautifully apparent and Snoke will try to beat it/scare it out of him, but I think when he meets Rey again that loyalty will emerge stronger than ever. I believe their dynamic will be just as interesting if they’re Force bonded allies or even teacher/student. They would understand and communicate with each other in ways no one else could. They are forever linked, two halves of a whole, yin & yang working together for the sake of the galaxy. No kissing required. Not that romance couldn’t naturally sprout from nurturing that connection… because it totally could. And the mutual physical attraction is already there…

Credit to @psy-kylo-gy

This would be such an interesting and satisfying connection between two former enemies - Kylo becoming a loyal knight to Rey. I really love this concept and we can already see elements of that in the movie, such as when he crouches before Rey as she sleeps. He is also shown kneeling on the pinball machine but we don't know yet to whom. And it is true that it gets implied in the databank that his loyalties will change ("Ren swore he was loyal only to Snoke, but he was intrigued by Rey..."). I think if they're not going the romance route (which I would still prefer 100%) then this could work as an alternative. Smile
@WhatGirl

Yup. And that wouldn't necessarily eliminate the UST and chemistry that so many of us love and want to see more of with them.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Sat 22 Jul - 2:33

I also saw that on Tumblr and found it interesting. As much as I'm still rooting for romantic Reylo, I do see any relationship between them being platonic (for now at least). The biggest hurdle to cross for Kylo is redeeming himself after everything he's done, especially killing Han as many regard that act as unforgivable. I'm really not seeing how Rey could enter into a romance with Kylo at this point. We have to consider the possibility that she won't be looking for that kind of love and will be content finding it in friendship and the family she's found with the Resistance.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by snufkin on Sat 22 Jul - 3:01

I had one class in school where we covered the concept of courtly love as part of the era we were studying, so it'd be straight out of that topic. I don't remember that much about it, but the classic title on it is The Art of Courtly Love

The work deals with several specific themes that were the subject of poetical debate among late twelfth century troubadours and trobairitz. The basic conception of Capellanus is that courtly love ennobles both the lover and the beloved, provided that certain codes of behaviour are respected. Interestingly, De amore describes the affection between spouses as an unrelated emotion, stating that "love can have no place between husband and wife," although they may feel even "immoderate affection" for one another. Rather, the most ennobling love is generally secret and extremely difficult to obtain, serving as a means for inspiring men to great deeds.

A few examples of these guidelines are listed below (numbered according to the order found in the original work, which contains thirty-one total):

   1. Marriage is no real excuse for not loving.
   6. Boys do not love until they arrive at the age of maturity.
   8. No one should be deprived of love without the very best of reasons.
   13. When made public love rarely endures.
   14. The easy attainment of love makes it of little value; difficulty of attainment makes it prized.
   20. A man in love is always apprehensive.
   30. A true lover is constantly and without intermission possessed by the thought of his beloved.

Thing about the courtly love concept is that women don't come off to great in it. Not so much as prizes to be won, but as unobtainable goals who frequently are revealed to be weak minded and not be trusted. There's some serious Madonna-***** complex going on, as well as benevolent sexism. Also if you've read Mary Wollstonecraft's Vindication of the Rights of Women, the basis of what she's arguing for is for men and women to reject these type of attitudes and dynamics in how they relate to one another. So while I can definitely see the ST continuing to toy with the Knights Templar and knight and his lady imagery/themes between these two characters, I sincerely hope that they don't dig too deep into that motif. Because it's not a healthy dynamic for either gender.


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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Sat 22 Jul - 3:03

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I also saw that on Tumblr and found it interesting. As much as I'm still rooting for romantic Reylo, I do see any relationship between them being platonic (for now at least). The biggest hurdle to cross for Kylo is redeeming himself after everything he's done, especially killing Han as many regard that act as unforgivable. I'm really not seeing how Rey could enter into a romance with Kylo at this point. We have to consider the possibility that she won't be looking for that kind of love and will be content finding it in friendship and the family she's found with the Resistance.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think anyone on this board sees Rey entering a relationship with Kylo as he is now.  I will say I am interested by this scenario @WhatGirl shared.  Ironically, I even if there isn't a kiss whatsoever, I have a very difficult time seeing it as completely platonic.  Imagine cousins or siblings in this exact scenario, and it doesn't exactly work.  Cousins just feels off completely.  If she (god forbid) turns out to be his baby sister, it might work a bit better because of the family loyalty element, but there's still very much a twinge of creepiness to it.  

Regardless, I am intrigued by this scenario and am very open to the possibility.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Sat 22 Jul - 3:20

IoJovi wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I also saw that on Tumblr and found it interesting. As much as I'm still rooting for romantic Reylo, I do see any relationship between them being platonic (for now at least). The biggest hurdle to cross for Kylo is redeeming himself after everything he's done, especially killing Han as many regard that act as unforgivable. I'm really not seeing how Rey could enter into a romance with Kylo at this point. We have to consider the possibility that she won't be looking for that kind of love and will be content finding it in friendship and the family she's found with the Resistance.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think anyone on this board sees Rey entering a relationship with Kylo as he is now.  I will say I am interested by this scenario @WhatGirl shared.  Ironically, I even if there isn't a kiss whatsoever, I have a very difficult time seeing it as completely platonic.  Imagine cousins or siblings in this exact scenario, and it doesn't exactly work.  Cousins just feels off completely.  If she (god forbid) turns out to be his baby sister, it might work a bit better because of the family loyalty element, but there's still very much a twinge of creepiness to it.  

Regardless, I am intrigued by this scenario and am very open to the possibility.
@IoJovi

I didn't mean Kylo as he is at the end of TFA, I meant him as he will be throughout most of the ST. Even if he starts turning things around in TLJ, I'm still not seeing how mutual romance is viable. I may change my mind on that as we get more information, and obviously depending on what TLJ brings. But the vibe I'm getting from all involved at Lucasfilm right now is that romantic love won't be part of Rey's journey in this trilogy. I'm trying to keep the optimism going in other threads and I understand not wanting to bring people down, but I have to call it as I see it.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Sat 22 Jul - 3:27

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
IoJovi wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I also saw that on Tumblr and found it interesting. As much as I'm still rooting for romantic Reylo, I do see any relationship between them being platonic (for now at least). The biggest hurdle to cross for Kylo is redeeming himself after everything he's done, especially killing Han as many regard that act as unforgivable. I'm really not seeing how Rey could enter into a romance with Kylo at this point. We have to consider the possibility that she won't be looking for that kind of love and will be content finding it in friendship and the family she's found with the Resistance.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think anyone on this board sees Rey entering a relationship with Kylo as he is now.  I will say I am interested by this scenario @WhatGirl shared.  Ironically, I even if there isn't a kiss whatsoever, I have a very difficult time seeing it as completely platonic.  Imagine cousins or siblings in this exact scenario, and it doesn't exactly work.  Cousins just feels off completely.  If she (god forbid) turns out to be his baby sister, it might work a bit better because of the family loyalty element, but there's still very much a twinge of creepiness to it.  

Regardless, I am intrigued by this scenario and am very open to the possibility.
@IoJovi

I didn't mean Kylo as he is at the end of TFA, I meant him as he will be throughout most of the ST. Even if he starts turning things around in TLJ, I'm still not seeing how mutual romance is viable. I may change my mind on that as we get more information, and obviously depending on what TLJ brings. But the vibe I'm getting from all involved at Lucasfilm right now is that romantic love won't be part of Rey's journey in this trilogy. I'm trying to keep the optimism going in other threads and I understand not wanting to bring people down, but I have to call it as I see it.
@Mrs Ben Solo

No problem, I misunderstood then. In this case, we will just have to agree to disagree. I most definitely see a more overt romance in IX at the very least. Still, this thread isn't the place for it as there are many other conversations here that dive into that.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Piper Maru on Sat 22 Jul - 3:44

I think the dynamic between Rey and Kylo is built upon romantic tropes and narrative expectations, but it's all there as a background, as a flavour. It doesn't really matter if they kiss on screen or not -- they already share a "mysterious and strange connection", their destinies are intertwined, they were in each other's minds. Even if the relationship ends platonically, its meaning is far more deep and intense than a mere friendship.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sat 22 Jul - 4:20

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
IoJovi wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I also saw that on Tumblr and found it interesting. As much as I'm still rooting for romantic Reylo, I do see any relationship between them being platonic (for now at least). The biggest hurdle to cross for Kylo is redeeming himself after everything he's done, especially killing Han as many regard that act as unforgivable. I'm really not seeing how Rey could enter into a romance with Kylo at this point. We have to consider the possibility that she won't be looking for that kind of love and will be content finding it in friendship and the family she's found with the Resistance.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think anyone on this board sees Rey entering a relationship with Kylo as he is now.  I will say I am interested by this scenario @WhatGirl shared.  Ironically, I even if there isn't a kiss whatsoever, I have a very difficult time seeing it as completely platonic.  Imagine cousins or siblings in this exact scenario, and it doesn't exactly work.  Cousins just feels off completely.  If she (god forbid) turns out to be his baby sister, it might work a bit better because of the family loyalty element, but there's still very much a twinge of creepiness to it.  

Regardless, I am intrigued by this scenario and am very open to the possibility.
@IoJovi

I didn't mean Kylo as he is at the end of TFA, I meant him as he will be throughout most of the ST. Even if he starts turning things around in TLJ, I'm still not seeing how mutual romance is viable. I may change my mind on that as we get more information, and obviously depending on what TLJ brings. But the vibe I'm getting from all involved at Lucasfilm right now is that romantic love won't be part of Rey's journey in this trilogy. I'm trying to keep the optimism going in other threads and I understand not wanting to bring people down, but I have to call it as I see it.
@Mrs Ben Solo
IMO, it's hard to say there've been any vibes when IX hasn't really even been mentioned yet at all by LF. It's a long way off and VIII isn't even out yet. The only real reference I've even heard to it recently was in that VF article where Rian said he couldn't speak for Colin on the subject of romance. So while I do respect and understand that you're trying to keep your expectations in check, I think it's rather unfair to speak for a movie that is still in its early stages of planning and that was already met with a huge setback with Carrie's death. I say this as someone who has never been the biggest overtly romantic Reylo and who would be perfectly satisfied with their bond being totally/plot Force related with a bit of underlying tension (basically like TFA but with Kylo changing drastically as a person and realizing how much he f***ed up).

FWIW, my own expectations (if I can even call them that, as I've always tried to maintain a pretty open mind) were mostly shaped by "plotgate". Knowing definitively that the writers didn't have a clear goal set in mind when made TFA certainly was a game-changer for me because, while Abrams most certainly intended much of the fairytale and "romantic" symbolism between Rey and Kylo in his movie (as he basically admitted himself in the commentary), it became crystal clear that nothing was obliging Rian to continue that exact narrative strand after he took over. That's if we're taking what he said at face value, of course, and I'm still not willing to say for sure that "plotgate" wasn't more of a gimmick used for the directors to clear up how much creative freedom they really had vs. the studio. IF they do continue what Abrams started then I do think some form of romantic Reylo is coming by the end of IX, which was always what I figured anyway as this was certainly the kind of story that would take all three films to tell effectively, never two. Same goes for Kylo's redemption. But, if they didn't go with what Abrams started then we could end up with something great anyway, as long as it maintains the core of the bond Rey and Kylo have already formed, which is largely related to the Force. I'm pretty much cool with anything that results in Kylo repenting and changing, but we can only wait and see. Good news is we'll have a much clearer picture after VIII. Smile
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Kessel on Sat 22 Jul - 4:45

I could see something like the knight and lady scenario occurring between Rey and Kylo and it could tie in with the Force. I like the idea and it has the story-telling potential to be complicated and intense (even if it's not romantic). If Rey is special or part of a Force prophesy, that could be a possible reason why Kylo may initially want to follow/team up with her, especially if he becomes disillusioned with Snoke. Kylo has already shown a capacity to be zealously devoted, lol.

I think odds are good they may end up working together so this may be a good way for this to take place.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by vaderito on Sat 22 Jul - 5:09

OK, so lets say they are not romantic and they are not related. So who they are going to have romance with? Maybe not in ST but the next trilogy?

That would be so toothless, IMO. Redemption through romantic love is the most beloved trope of all times. Why waste it especially in the series that had redemption through familial love, and while it was nice, where's the passion?
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by reylo1992 on Sat 22 Jul - 6:34

vaderito wrote:OK, so lets say they are not romantic and they are not related. So who they are going to have romance with? Maybe not in ST but the next trilogy?

That would be so toothless, IMO. Redemption through romantic love is the most beloved trope of all times. Why waste it especially in the series that had redemption through familial love, and while it was nice, where's the passion?
@vaderito

They still could have the same kind of relationship as Obi-Wan/Anakin and Ahsoka/Anakin where there is indeed some strange tension without romantic vibe. I have always got the sense that Rey was meant to represent for Ben a mix of Padme, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan. Still this would make her the perfect soulmate for him and it is hard to believe that the notion of belonging applies  to a good friend, soulmate or not.

Plus, I have no doubt that Rian had much space for creativity but really I think that the "plotgate" was very much the consequences of LF marketing policy. They obviously fear that the GA may think that TLJ would be a copy of ESB as many thought that TFA was a copy of ANH. I have several relatives who clearly told me - after they went to the theaters - that they weren't sure to go to the theaters for TLJ because they think that they're gonna watch a copy of ESB. That's why, I think that we shouldn't worry with how Rian tied his story with TFA because I don't think that LF is stupid enough to go a totally different road. However, they need to convince the audience that they're not recycling the plot of the previous movies/

Now, Rian had still much room to decide whether he would go for romantic Reylo or not in his own movie. However, let's keep in mind that J.J. is still part of the crew as an executive producer and thus he has known where Rian would go with TLJ from the very beginning. If romantic Reylo ain't canon anymore, why the hell did J.J. comment TFA using the following expression  Suspect
- "You're probably going to have a prince and a princess if you look at a fairytale"
- "Rey is drawn to this place almost like Cinderella"
- "Now,you see Adam Driver and he looks like a Prince"

I mean, he could have easily said that Rey and Kylo would have an interesting relationship going forward without giving away some romantic vibe and yet...



You  can feel that J.J. chose carefully his words as if he wanted to give us clues without giving away too much. He didn't need to give such details since so many people missed the potentially romantic dynamic between Kylo and Rey. Plus, theses TFA audio comments were released last November as the TLJ crew was already done with the shooting. If romantic Reylo isn't canon anymore, why would L.F. have let J.J.Abrams suggest some future romantic relationship happening somewhen between Kylo and Rey...unless the marketing team don't know what they're doing Question

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by snufkin on Sat 22 Jul - 6:46

reylo1992 wrote:Plus, theses TFA audio comments were released last November as the TLJ crew was already done with the shooting. If romantic Reylo isn't canon anymore, why would L.F. have let J.J.Abrams suggest some future romantic relationship happening somewhen between Kylo and Rey...unless the marketing team don't know what they're doing

Agreed, if that's the case there was no need for him using the words Princess, Prince, and Castle in his director's commentary. I'm not a Disney fan, but for a movie from that company, those are pretty loaded words.

Also I forgot to mention in the above thread mention of courtly love, he *thinks* that he's being noble and chivalrous in 'rescuing' Rey from her dirtbag Resistance friends and then offering to train her. A couple people here have been reminded of Brian de Bois-Guilbert. They're playing a little with that character. But as we've seen already a lot of the gender roles and tropes have been upended with Rey and the other characters she interacts with. So he may see himself as the knight in that scenario, but there's also enough information already to suggest that he's not the knight, he's the damsel in distress given whatever bargain he struck with Snoke.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 22 Jul - 7:12

The Queen and her loyal knight is actually a vibe I got originally, as I still can't shake off the feeling that Rey is hidden royalty somehow. Kylo (looking like he's) kneeling in front of her in the interrogation room kind of underscored that vibe. It would work, IMO. But that still doesn't change the fact that everything that suggested the "mysterious connection" between Rey and Kylo came hand in hand with those romantic tropes that Reylos latched onto.

And of course, a knight worshipping a lady is an inherently romantic concept in itself, even if it's one-sided. In that case, though, JJ really could have done with less sexual subtext in their scenes. And it's hard to imagine how a one-sided courtly love would contribute to Rey's character arc. To his, certainly, but he's not supposed to be the main character. But Rey being the main character, being a static idol for Kylo the disgraced knight's courtly adoration would mean that her own character development would have to be elsewhere, quite apart from whatever character development Kylo has going on in his lonely adoration.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Saracene on Sat 22 Jul - 8:23

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I also saw that on Tumblr and found it interesting. As much as I'm still rooting for romantic Reylo, I do see any relationship between them being platonic (for now at least). The biggest hurdle to cross for Kylo is redeeming himself after everything he's done, especially killing Han as many regard that act as unforgivable. I'm really not seeing how Rey could enter into a romance with Kylo at this point. We have to consider the possibility that she won't be looking for that kind of love and will be content finding it in friendship and the family she's found with the Resistance.
@Mrs Ben Solo

The way I see it, Kylo and Rey are likely to be on different romantic schedules. As in, him developing feelings way earlier and the whole thing remaining one-sided until, perhaps, the very end.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by reylo1992 on Sat 22 Jul - 10:06

Saracene wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I also saw that on Tumblr and found it interesting. As much as I'm still rooting for romantic Reylo, I do see any relationship between them being platonic (for now at least). The biggest hurdle to cross for Kylo is redeeming himself after everything he's done, especially killing Han as many regard that act as unforgivable. I'm really not seeing how Rey could enter into a romance with Kylo at this point. We have to consider the possibility that she won't be looking for that kind of love and will be content finding it in friendship and the family she's found with the Resistance.
@Mrs Ben Solo

The way I see it, Kylo and Rey are likely to be on different romantic schedules. As in, him developing feelings way earlier and the whole thing remaining one-sided until, perhaps, the very end.
@Saracene

This is where I tend to disagree with the theory that Rey wouldn't need to find romantic love because she would find a family with Finn and the Resistance. I agree that one can have an extensive vision of what to include within the concept of family and belonging. But I always find strange to consider that one can find in his friends or (Resistant) pals a family or a belonging. You can't belong to your friends and your friends belong to you especially if in Rey's case the belonging she seeks is embodied by one single person, the one who could come back for her. Now, it is true that Daisy Ridley answered to some question about romance with "being in love with friends". But still, that sounds really odd for me to imagine Rey finding a family in the Resistance.

And where will Kylo belong to Question I don't imagine him finding a family in the Resistance. We know that Leia will die. Hard to imagine that he will spend his lifetime with Luke. As for another love interest than Rey, why having Rey playing a major part in his life if he's gonna end up with someone else than her Question And having him ending up all alone or ultimately die pale Can't imagine that the screenwriters would go that road so I hope that they'reup to something sad and tragic with him to have both Rey and the GA have a complete change of heart about him.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by panki on Sat 22 Jul - 11:30

I have this feeling that tptb are being cautious when it comes to the romance element in this trilogy...they took a lot of risks with Kylo without letting the audience develop an attachment to him (like we did in the case of Rey) which made a good story but created a lot of unnecessary hate as well...now I think they will need to build a case for Kylo's redemption first, which is probably why RJ is not focusing on romance in his movie.

I think the decision as to whether Rey has a romance and if so, who she romances will only be made after December (especially since shooting only starts next year and even in TFA certain decisions like Snoke's look and his role were decided just weeks before filming started). I think they will write a few scenarios and decide which one to pursue then.

However, I think a romance will definitely happen under two circumstances even if the anti Kylo sentiment continues after Episode 8:

- Kylo turns out to be a double agent working deep undercover; or
- Rey goes to the dark side for a while. If a lovable person like Rey could be corrupted easily, then what chance would Kylo have being corrupted from birth.


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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Sat 22 Jul - 12:46

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
IoJovi wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I also saw that on Tumblr and found it interesting. As much as I'm still rooting for romantic Reylo, I do see any relationship between them being platonic (for now at least). The biggest hurdle to cross for Kylo is redeeming himself after everything he's done, especially killing Han as many regard that act as unforgivable. I'm really not seeing how Rey could enter into a romance with Kylo at this point. We have to consider the possibility that she won't be looking for that kind of love and will be content finding it in friendship and the family she's found with the Resistance.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I don't think anyone on this board sees Rey entering a relationship with Kylo as he is now.  I will say I am interested by this scenario @WhatGirl shared.  Ironically, I even if there isn't a kiss whatsoever, I have a very difficult time seeing it as completely platonic.  Imagine cousins or siblings in this exact scenario, and it doesn't exactly work.  Cousins just feels off completely.  If she (god forbid) turns out to be his baby sister, it might work a bit better because of the family loyalty element, but there's still very much a twinge of creepiness to it.  

Regardless, I am intrigued by this scenario and am very open to the possibility.
@IoJovi

I didn't mean Kylo as he is at the end of TFA, I meant him as he will be throughout most of the ST. Even if he starts turning things around in TLJ, I'm still not seeing how mutual romance is viable. I may change my mind on that as we get more information, and obviously depending on what TLJ brings. But the vibe I'm getting from all involved at Lucasfilm right now is that romantic love won't be part of Rey's journey in this trilogy. I'm trying to keep the optimism going in other threads and I understand not wanting to bring people down, but I have to call it as I see it.
@Mrs Ben Solo
IMO, it's hard to say there've been any vibes when IX hasn't really even been mentioned yet at all by LF. It's a long way off and VIII isn't even out yet. The only real reference I've even heard to it recently was in that VF article where Rian said he couldn't speak for Colin on the subject of romance. So while I do respect and understand that you're trying to keep your expectations in check, I think it's rather unfair to speak for a movie that is still in its early stages of planning and that was already met with a huge setback with Carrie's death. I say this as someone who has never been the biggest overtly romantic Reylo and who would be perfectly satisfied with their bond being totally/plot Force related with a bit of underlying tension (basically like TFA but with Kylo changing drastically as a person and realizing how much he f***ed up).

FWIW, my own expectations (if I can even call them that, as I've always tried to maintain a pretty open mind) were mostly shaped by "plotgate". Knowing definitively that the writers didn't have a clear goal set in mind when made TFA certainly was a game-changer for me because, while Abrams most certainly intended much of the fairytale and "romantic" symbolism between Rey and Kylo in his movie (as he basically admitted himself in the commentary), it became crystal clear that nothing was obliging Rian to continue that exact narrative strand after he took over. That's if we're taking what he said at face value, of course, and I'm still not willing to say for sure that "plotgate" wasn't more of a gimmick used for the directors to clear up how much creative freedom they really had vs. the studio. IF they do continue what Abrams started then I do think some form of romantic Reylo is coming by the end of IX, which was always what I figured anyway as this was certainly the kind of story that would take all three films to tell effectively, never two. Same goes for Kylo's redemption. But, if they didn't go with what Abrams started then we could end up with something great anyway, as long as it maintains the core of the bond Rey and Kylo have already formed, which is largely related to the Force. I'm pretty much cool with anything that results in Kylo repenting and changing, but we can only wait and see. Good news is we'll have a much clearer picture after VIII. Smile
@FrolickingFizzgig

My doubts about romantic Reylo don't really have anything to do with plotgate or the Vanity Fair romancegate etc. I started to doubt it long before that. The vibes I'm talking about are the way Lucasfilm are talking about the force and heroes, the way Rey is being marketed, what is being said by the cast and creatives in terms of the characters and the values of Star Wars. I guess it is because I spend a lot of time on social media and I see how Lucasfilm employees communicate with each other and the stuff they say. While they are careful not to outright debunk stuff like Reylo, it's clear many of them either don't get it or don't like it. It doesn't matter what their personal likes and dislikes are, of course, if that's where the story is headed, but the cumulative effect of it all adds to my doubt.

The good news for me and everyone who wants Kylo to be redeemed is that I think the chances of that are very high. When it comes to Rey and Kylo being in a reciprocal romance, I don't rule it out and I'd love to see it, I just really doubt it. I look at the material coming out across the board from comics/books/TV/games etc and listen to what folks like Dave Filoni and members of the story group say etc and I don't see Reylo as being something they would do. I know the movies have major input from their directors/writers but they still have to fit within the context of the Star Wars universe. I could be wrong, and maybe I am, I just see nothing in the way they're marketing Rey as a hero, particularly to young girls (and boys!) to suggest they would embroil her in a controversial romance. Daisy gave an interview at D23 when she talked about how important it is for her to live up to that expectation as a role model that her fans, particularly the young girls, have of her. I can certainly see Rey having compassion for Kylo and even entering into an alliance of some sort with him but being his girlfriend or wife, that's another matter altogether. We don't even know what Rey wants yet, whatever it is, I think romance is likely to be way down on her list at present. None of this rules out romance for her later down the line or even Reylo, but there is a mountain to climb with Kylo's redemption and I'm not sure TLJ and Ep IX will be sufficient to get them to the point of being a couple without major corners being cut.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 22 Jul - 13:30

I've got to say, though, if there's really no significant romance in the ST, it would appear that Lucasfilm has a bit of a romance problem. No romance in the ST, no romance in Rogue One (so they say), no romance in Rebels, no romance in the Han Solo film (presumably: it would be a weird place for a major new romance), no romance to speak of in comics, and in the novels we've had, what... Dark Disciple and Lost Stars? I can't think of any other significant romantic storylines.

God forbid strong female characters be tainted with any association with romance, I guess.

Oh, except for that YA tragic romance anthology film, if those rumours are true. I suppose teenage girls can be patted on the head with a bit of angsty romance. That should be enough to keep the females happy for years to come.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 22 Jul - 13:39

Darth Dingbat wrote:I've got to say, though, if there's really no significant romance in the ST, it would appear that Lucasfilm has a bit of a romance problem. No romance in the ST, no romance in Rogue One (so they say), no romance in Rebels, no romance in the Han Solo film (presumably: it would be a weird place for a major new romance), no romance to speak of in comics, and in the novels we've had, what... Dark Disciple and Lost Stars? I can't think of any other significant romantic storylines.

God forbid strong female characters be tainted with any association with romance, I guess.

Oh, except for that YA tragic romance anthology film, if those rumours are true. I suppose teenage girls can be patted on the head with a bit of angsty romance. That should be enough to keep the females happy for years to come.
@Darth Dingbat

I agree 100%.
The message they're giving so far with no-romance for a strong female characters is a bit off - and highly unrealistic.
Princess Leia was inspirational to so many - not only because she was a strong female character (and stayed as such until the end) she also had a very prominent romance in the canon.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Sat 22 Jul - 13:41

Darth Dingbat wrote:I've got to say, though, if there's really no significant romance in the ST, it would appear that Lucasfilm has a bit of a romance problem. No romance in the ST, no romance in Rogue One (so they say), no romance in Rebels, no romance in the Han Solo film (presumably: it would be a weird place for a major new romance), no romance to speak of in comics, and in the novels we've had, what... Dark Disciple and Lost Stars? I can't think of any other significant romantic storylines.

God forbid strong female characters be tainted with any association with romance, I guess.

Oh, except for that YA tragic romance anthology film, if those rumours are true. I suppose teenage girls can be patted on the head with a bit of angsty romance. That should be enough to keep the females happy for years to come.
@Darth Dingbat

There is a lot of truth in what you say. I don't see anything much from Lucasfilm creatives in support of romantic love and relationships. In fact, some of them seem vehemently against it. When they do incorporate romance, it often winds up being tragic or doesn't work out for some reason. This more than anything is why I've become so sceptical about romantic Reylo happening. Look at the way Rey is being presented right now in terms of marketing, all the new books that are coming out, the animated shorts etc, they don't add up to someone who's going to be one half of a couple with Kylo Ren, IMO. I still agree that there's so much potential there with Rey and Kylo, I'm just not sure the current Lucasfilm creatives have any interest in pursuing such a story.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sat 22 Jul - 14:04

@Mrs Ben Solo

I agree with a lot you have said. I don't think the marketing of Rey points to Reylo happening (yet? Don't know, but I think Rey's image won't be the same after TLJ). Disney might want to steer away from the message that girls can make a bad boy good again, though... Although they went there with the patricide, which I was shocked by the first time I saw TFA, so... Nope I'm forever on the fence! But wanting it to happen and thinking it will happen are certainly two different things.
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