The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Mon 24 Jul - 15:22

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously that makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.  

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

Thank you for this.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 24 Jul - 15:26

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously that makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

I'm not trying to stop anyone speculating or having fun. As I said in my post, speculate away! I gave my personal opinion, which we all do here, and I find the hearts and BATB stuff ridiculous. I see it all the time on Tumblr and such and I think it makes it easier for antis to poke fun at Reylo. That is my opinion, I don't expect anyone here to share it. We are not a hive mind and, as a Reylo shipper, I don't personally want to be lumped in with the sillier aspects of it. It is impossible to expect every Reylo shipper to go along with every theory and there's plenty of other things I don't agree with either. I picked out the hearts and BATB stuff because those two things, in particular, irritate me. Like I said, it's a personal thing. I try and keep all this out of those threads that deal specifically with BATB aspects and such precisely because I don't want to rain on anyone else's parade. This thread is for discussing non-romantic possibilities and some people keep taking issue with it. There are plenty of other threads where romantic possibilities are the focus and one discussion where people question those assumptions isn't tearing down everything that other people believe in.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 24 Jul - 15:29

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously that makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.  

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree.

I don't really see the hearts that people speak of, but I spotted this today and had a laugh because it describes SW fandom to a tee:



Every corner of the fandom does this. It's just a way of having fun, it doesn't detract from anyone's "fandom street cred".

Let's face it: all of this is ridiculous. We're going over a piece of fiction with a fine tooth comb and a magnifying glass. This isn't exactly rocket science.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by SkyStar on Mon 24 Jul - 15:30

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously that makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.  

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree.

I don't really see the hearts that people speak of, but I spotted this today and had a laugh because it describes SW fandom to a tee:



Every corner of the fandom does this. It's just a way of having fun, it doesn't detract from anyone's "fandom street cred".

Let's face it: all of this is ridiculous. We're going over a piece of fiction with a fine tooth comb and a magnifying glass. This isn't exactly rocket science.
@Darth Dingbat

Hahaha those are gold.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by reylo1992 on Mon 24 Jul - 15:32

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:@reylo1992

I don't see a pro Reylo marketing. I see the absence of Reylo in the marketing which is interpreted by romantic Reylos as a sign that it's the (big) surprise and it could be true, I never said otherwise.

BatB is a movie on its own and I have difficulties to understand why it is supporting Reylo. I am sure there are plenty of other recent films that would not support romantic Reylo. There was no co-marketing plan from what I could see. It's 2 different movies and 2 different worlds. We can see parallels but seeing BatB as an obvious supporting tool for romantic Reylo is imo a stretch. We would have to analyze every Disney movie coming out in the last 2 years to see a pattern. And the actors drawing parallels does not mean there is really an obvious plan from LF behind it. I'd go to a party with Rey buns. It's a cool hairdo. I think that our idea of LF's marketing strategy is overblown at times and LF must sometimes smile at the intentions we give to them. I just cannot imagine them sitting in a room and conspire the way we sometimes seem to think they do. They are drowning us with books in the next months. Now that's a real cash generating marketing strategy. Books for nearly every age cluster. Kids to grand parents will get their share Very Happy

The sad puppy marketing is good for Kylo's redemption. It makes it easier for romantic Reylo, that's for sure, but that's it for me right now. And central relationship does not automatically equal romance. Plus some would tell you that RJ himself said the beating heart of TLJ is Rey and Luke. Interwined destinies though sounds more tangible to me because it is in an official database, it makes sense based on TFA, it is implied by the poster and if only because they are with Luke and Snoke the only force sensitive people so far and are the new generation so they can only crash into each other again and have an interwined destiny.

You know, we could go back and forth and destroy each other's arguments, but I don't see that as very productive. Although it could also be fun... Toi et moi sur le ring maintenant Very Happy And we're actually not on opposite sides but just have a different perspective. I think - shout if I am wrong - that you lean more towards a romantic Reylo than I do so our reading is tainted, whether we like it or not, by our liking. I have nothing against Romantic Reylo unless it's cheezy and looks off. Then I'll probably resent LF a little. I just see more and more movies where the relationship between male lead and female lead is left open. And I think this could also be answering a trend of more people, and I'd say especially women, not being only interested in clear-cut romances and being quite happy with 2 strong characters working together without the mandatory smooching that was so prevalent in the last decades. But again, time will tell.

I am tired after writing this post Laughing
@SanghaRen

Re: the bolded - are people really less interested in romance, or do people just make do with fanfiction these days if they don't get what they hoped for? Fanfiction, and especially romantic fanfiction, is such a popular pastime nowadays that it tells me interest in romance hasn't really gone anywhere. But people have got used to providing it for themselves - and for each other - if they're not getting it from canon. And from my observation, there's this underlying assumption of "oh well, at least we'll always have fanfic": people expect less from canon. Expect it not to deliver.

Don't get me wrong, there are a ton of stories that don't need any romance at all. Subtle, barely noticeable "what if..." romance dynamics have their place as well. But much of the time, it feels like a frustrating cop-out to introduce fairly obvious romance dynamics with all the tropes and chemistry and then go nowhere with them. It feels like people don't have the courage to tell love stories anymore. Because it does take courage, and creativity, and flair, to write a romance that doesn't seem tacked-on, paint-by-the-numbers and/or cheesy. It takes emotional intelligence and it's not at all easy.

Perhaps it's easier to outsource the romance to the audience's own fanfic fantasies.

@ Sangua Ren @Darth Dingbat

I understand and respect your points of view Smile You're right: we could end up go in circles so let's just wait and see how things are gonna evolve. To me, the most important is a story that makes sense at the end. I have anyway nothing more to add about this because besides my usual references my imagination is limited in regard to "non-romantic Reylo" Wink

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 24 Jul - 15:34

@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously that makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.  

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

Thank you for this.
@IoJovi

I have to say that I sometimes wonder why this thread exists at all if people are going to get upset over every single personal opinion and discussion of Reylo maybe ending up platonic. I don't expect anyone to agree with me but I didn't think I had to fit into the hive mind mentality or else! I'm not trying to stop people having fun speculating. I took previous complaints to heart about not bringing people down in the spoiler threads and such. If differing opinions aren't welcome here then it is no better than other Star Wars forums that have been openly derided and mocked.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Mon 24 Jul - 15:35

@Mrs Ben Solo I understand we're all not going to agree on everything, but I found your post very condescending and it's not the first time it's happened.  I'll leave it at that.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 24 Jul - 15:39

I am doing a multiple quote post. Can you tell I have a day off? Very Happy

@Darth Dingbat

I guess me and my friends are then the exception. We are not that interested in romances per se. And I neither write nor read fan fiction. It's not mine. You won't find me paying to watch a purely romantic movie in the cinema. I do enjoy however the mix of romance with other genre including SF. The first Terminator is to me one of the biggest romances ever. I mean the guy traveled to the past because Kyle fell in love with Sarah on a picture. And Linda Hamilton and Michael Biehn have such chemistry. Kyle also has puppy eyes Smile Abyss comes to my mind too. That scene when she willingly drowns because he's a better swimmer, OMG. Btw that's a movie I haven't seen in ages... And well, there's Han and Leia. So there's no discussion that if done well, it can be fantastic. And I am a candidate for such movies. If done well and if integrated in the story. It's just not the only option I see right now. Happy to be proven wrong if it gets me the same feelings as Terminator.

The few SW female fans I know in RL do not seem to be hung up on romance neither. Most are Luke and OB1 fans, both characters having had no romance in the movies until now. I am actually the one putting Han and Leia on the pedestal Smile Well, now they're second to their son.

@panki

That's been my thinking more or less since they announced KMT. Finn and Rose main romance. Kylo and Rey open door. And if we get meaningful scenes and an open door, I am more than happy with that.

That drawing of Ahsoka and Kanan did jump in my face as a Rey giving Kylo the legacy saber (back). I am happy that you as a general SW expert and Ahsoka fan can see a possible parallel even if romance is still your #1 option Smile That means it's not fully off and I am getting better in SW stuff!

@Mana

Oh my, I just had a pic in my head of Kylo dancing around Rey the Bollywood way during the interrogation. I wish I could download it from my head and paste it here. Well, SW is about family and about people joining forces to fight for the greater good against a powerful oppressor. One can discuss how central Han and Leia's romance was for instance. TFA being still very West style, I do think TLJ will also be so. RJ does not strike me as a non West type. As a European, I find him quite American actually. Which does not bother me.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I have to admit I was never into the heart thing neither. I have as background on my computer Kylo from the teaser. And I see a heart in his left eye produced by his saber and the blue saber. I really don't think it's intentional, but it's fun to see it and I just enjoy watching it and smiling at it. I would not use it as a basis for speculation, but to each their own. If there were by any chance intentional hearts, it would be fun to know though. Maybe it will be confirmed or disproved one day. I expect the "losing" party to buy a drink even if virtual.

I am getting really excited about TLJ. I mean it's amazing that we all have different perspectives. I wonder what the forum is going to be like once we finally know what Reylo we get. It's kind of scary too. Actually I am both excited and scared to see the movie after so much time discussing it Very Happy

@reylo1992

Let me give you a virtual hug. I'll buy you a drink if we get a romantic Reylo. Two if we get it BatB style. And you're allowed to send me a mocking gif - only one and not too mean please. How does that sound?

And now I have to get off this forum and take care of RL stuff.


Last edited by SanghaRen on Mon 24 Jul - 15:40; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 24 Jul - 15:39

@IoJovi wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo I understand we're all not going to agree on everything, but I found your post very condescending and it's not the first time it's happened.  I'll leave it at that.
@IoJovi

There is no need to leave it at that. If there are grievances, I would prefer to know about them. I get that being autistic, I'm not the world's most tactful person. I really did not intend to insult anyone and I apologise if it came out that way.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 24 Jul - 15:41

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously tat makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.  

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

Thank you for this.
@IoJovi

I have to say that I sometimes wonder why this thread exists at all if people are going to get upset over every single personal opinion and discussion of Reylo maybe ending up platonic. I don't expect anyone to agree with me but I didn't think I had to fit into the hive mind mentality or else! I'm not trying to stop people having fun speculating. I took previous complaints to heart about not bringing people down in the spoiler threads and such. If differing opinions aren't welcome here then it is no better than other Star Wars forums that have been openly derided and mocked.
@Mrs Ben Solo
From what I understood the reply was more derisive of your highly specific mentions of a particular type of theorizing than it was an attempt to tell you how to feel or what to believe or what to expect. I don't see anyone doing that anywhere, but at the end of the day does telling others "manage your expectations" help? Believe it or not, there are tons of different personalities on this board, none of whom need someone else to coach them on how to consume fiction. It's just a movie. Dividing the forum and trying to persuade others that they have to maintain a certain mindset or else be disappointed doesn't help anyone, it's just condescending and rude.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 24 Jul - 15:41

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously that makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.  

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

Thank you for this.
@IoJovi

I have to say that I sometimes wonder why this thread exists at all if people are going to get upset over every single personal opinion and discussion of Reylo maybe ending up platonic. I don't expect anyone to agree with me but I didn't think I had to fit into the hive mind mentality or else! I'm not trying to stop people having fun speculating. I took previous complaints to heart about not bringing people down in the spoiler threads and such. If differing opinions aren't welcome here then it is no better than other Star Wars forums that have been openly derided and mocked.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I think it's less about having differing opinions and more about characterising other people's speculation as ridiculous... Ultimately, we're all quite ridiculous, spending our days speculating and obsessing over a film that came out almost two years ago and a film that has yet to come out.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 24 Jul - 15:44

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously that makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.  

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree.

I don't really see the hearts that people speak of, but I spotted this today and had a laugh because it describes SW fandom to a tee:



Every corner of the fandom does this. It's just a way of having fun, it doesn't detract from anyone's "fandom street cred".

Let's face it: all of this is ridiculous. We're going over a piece of fiction with a fine tooth comb and a magnifying glass. This isn't exactly rocket science.
@Darth Dingbat

LOL

I'am all for Holy Carlissian!
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 24 Jul - 15:44

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Two things I think are reaching to a crazy degree are a) Any link between the Beauty and The Beast movie and The Last Jedi (specifically Reylo) and b) Seeing hearts in everything. Speculate away but personally I cannot take anything seriously that makes arguments for either of those. There are fairytale elements in Rey and Kylo's dynamic, I'm not denying that and JJ himself alluded to them in his commentary. But to say the Disney BATB movie was intended in anyway to connect to Reylo... Nope. The seeing hearts in everything just reminds me of that Twitter account Faces In Things. Our brains are kinda wired to look for patterns in stuff but all the Rey and Kylo are surrounded by hearts misses the fact that there are probably such patterns everywhere if you isolated certain scenes to look for them. There is plenty of visual support and narrative evidence for Reylo without seeing stuff that just isn't there, IMO.

Anyway, if we got Rey and Kylo having this kind of moment, I'd be more than o.k with it...



@Mrs Ben Solo

Overall I do appreciate your posts very much, and I must say I didn't take personally anything you've said, because I've never seen any single heart and do not think BATB = Reylo, but I really do not get why you're so irritated by people who obviously have a lot of fun by analyzing that stuff, the way they want and the way they like.
Maybe it looks crazy to you, and maybe those posters who sees the things that way would end disappointed but that's their problem.  

Let them be Mrs Ben Solo, we're here to have fun not to point to each other how to think or how to see things.

@Darth_Awakened

Thank you for this.
@IoJovi

I have to say that I sometimes wonder why this thread exists at all if people are going to get upset over every single personal opinion and discussion of Reylo maybe ending up platonic. I don't expect anyone to agree with me but I didn't think I had to fit into the hive mind mentality or else! I'm not trying to stop people having fun speculating. I took previous complaints to heart about not bringing people down in the spoiler threads and such. If differing opinions aren't welcome here then it is no better than other Star Wars forums that have been openly derided and mocked.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I think it's less about having differing opinions and more about characterising other people's speculation as ridiculous... Ultimately, we're all quite ridiculous, spending our days speculating and obsessing over a film that came out almost two years ago and a film that has yet to come out.
@Darth Dingbat

That is a fair point, and I apologise for the offence my post obviously caused.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Mon 24 Jul - 15:51

@Mrs Ben Solo Thank you for your apology.  I said leave it at that because had I gone on, I probably would have said something I regret as I was pretty upset by your post.  I'll agree with @FrolickingFizzgig, people are quite capable of managing their own expectations and don't need others to tell them how to do it.  Regardless of the thread (which outside this specific conversation, I do enjoy btw), it's not polite to bring up previous conversations that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, and throw cold water on them.  Not only were certain members enthusiastic about these previous topics besides myself, but we don't need a psychoanalysis from you as to why we think a certain way.  The entire thing was condescending and out of line.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by WhatGirl on Mon 24 Jul - 16:01

@IoJovi wrote:Regardless of the thread (which outside this specific conversation, I do enjoy btw)
@IoJovi

You just like watching us struggle to come up with an alternate scenario to romance. Razz
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Mon 24 Jul - 16:05

@WhatGirl wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:Regardless of the thread (which outside this specific conversation, I do enjoy btw)
@IoJovi

You just like watching us struggle to come up with an alternate scenario to romance. Razz
@WhatGirl

lol!  I've been outted!  

Seriously though, I really did enjoy the discussion of courtly love from the other night.  There have been a few others here that have peaked my interest.  Still, in my head I ask myself would that situation work if they end up being related.  If the answer is no, it still falls under the non-platonic category.  If you can't imagine it between siblings or cousins, it's because there's an underlying romantic element to it.

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Mon 24 Jul - 16:05

@IoJovi wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo Thank you for your apology.  I said leave it at that because had I gone on, I probably would have said something I regret as I was pretty upset by your post.  I'll agree with @FrolickingFizzgig, people are quite capable of managing their own expectations and don't need others to tell them how to do it.  Regardless of the thread (which outside this specific conversation, I do enjoy btw), it's not polite to bring up previous conversations that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, and throw cold water on them.  Not only were certain members enthusiastic about these previous topics besides myself, but we don't need a psychoanalysis from you as to why we think a certain way.  The entire thing was condescending and out of line.
@IoJovi

In retrospect, I can see it was uncalled for, and again, I apologise.

I really don't want to rain on anyone's parade so I shall endeavour to keep such opinions to myself in future.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Mon 24 Jul - 16:10

@Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo Thank you for your apology.  I said leave it at that because had I gone on, I probably would have said something I regret as I was pretty upset by your post.  I'll agree with @FrolickingFizzgig, people are quite capable of managing their own expectations and don't need others to tell them how to do it.  Regardless of the thread (which outside this specific conversation, I do enjoy btw), it's not polite to bring up previous conversations that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, and throw cold water on them.  Not only were certain members enthusiastic about these previous topics besides myself, but we don't need a psychoanalysis from you as to why we think a certain way.  The entire thing was condescending and out of line.
@IoJovi

In retrospect, I can see it was uncalled for, and again, I apologise.

I really don't want to rain on anyone's parade so I shall endeavour to keep such opinions to myself in future.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Thank you very much for this, and I do appreciate your apology.   This place was built as a safe haven to be able to discuss a possible romance in peace without outside interference and I'm very protective of that.  I also know you didn't mean to hurt anybody.  I know things can be hard to decipher online and we can't always read tone.

Anyways, thank you for this - it means a great deal.  Smile

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 24 Jul - 16:27

@WhatGirl wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:Regardless of the thread (which outside this specific conversation, I do enjoy btw)
@IoJovi

You just like watching us struggle to come up with an alternate scenario to romance. Razz
@WhatGirl

See, I actually love the alternate-scenario-to-romance ideas and the discussion that revolves around them. While I prefer a romance, I do think that some of the scenarios people have come up with could still be quite satisfying!

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by snufkin on Mon 24 Jul - 16:53

FWIW I'd say it's likely that they have to go through an evolution of their 'interesting' relationship to get to the eventual point of romance. Which is already there given that it's grounded in a very clear Romantic (capitol R) aesthetic.

But to @Mana's point, she's right that it's now marketed to non-Western audiences. Which was one of the points which stuck with me about their interactions, how in some situations I've been in, based on the culture -- there's no way you could show an audience those type of scenes between an attractive young woman and the attractive young man pursuing her and have them not see it as being romantic. However in regards to the arguments that there shouldn't be a romance because "she's a role model blah blah blah" it's a false binary, good female roles OR romance. The problem is that most movies do such a sh*tty job in general of creating female characters and the relationships (with or without men and romantic or otherwise). There's just a lot of sh*tty characterization and sh*tty relationships written for female characters, so the knee jerk response has been "she doesn't need a romance, she should be a strong and independent female lead."  Versus what Carrie Fisher always said was her #1 piece of writing advice, "Make the women smarter and the love stories more interesting."  

Also I've said before, but some of this taps into the another piece of backlash against Disney, for promoting Princess Culture or having female leads where it was "the hero's feisty love interest."  Which some of the backlash itself is a little overreaching and pushing the "Cool Girl" narrative on little girls (see comments about hating pink or girly things). Or even the idiocy of "sure Belle falls in love with the Beast, but did we mention that she's feisty and likes to read books? And the Emma Watson version is into STEM!" But it's an over correction, so now anything to do with romance gets lumped in to that category. Instead of, IDK? Trying to just do a better job of writing and depicting women, including just having more women in general in Star Wars beyond one female lead. Which it feels like we're getting in the ST, including older women, women who are antagonists/villains, women who are heroines, women of color, women who are just there doing their jobs and living their lives without having to be part of the hero's story, et cetera. But as somebody who's the biggest feminist killjoy you'll ever meet, in this situation, the whole "no romance" argument strikes me as a missing the point. It's not empowering to take romance of the table, do a better f**king job of writing women and giving them better and more realistic relationships (with whichever gender/orientation they like having it with). That's what little girls need to see on screen when it comes to role models they can look up to.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 24 Jul - 17:56

\"Darth Dingbat wrote:

... Ultimately, we're all quite ridiculous, spending our days speculating and obsessing over a film that came out almost two years ago and a film that has yet to come out.
@Darth Dingbat

LOL, this is the sanest thing I've heard.

And to ALL

I am the one who started saying that using BatB as an intentional support to romantic Reylo is imo a stretch so to be fair, you should also direct your discontentment at me. I don't think I was very tactful neither. I stick to my guns, but I have no issue with people speculating on it. I just kind of wonder too why we have such a thread when the majority or the vocal part of the forum is obviously very romantic. I mean I am not interested in butting heads - unfortunately I don't always manage to restrain myself - so if non romantic views are a disturbance and I feel they are, why have a thread that will create a disturbance in the first place.

Well, I still enjoy my idea of Ahsoka-Kanan unused scene as possibly the end of IX - end of TLJ might be early - and will go back to general SW stuff. Still 4 months + to go. And 3 days until I start my SW reading marathon. Suicide squad, I mean Inferno Squad, I am waiting for you to show up on my Kindle app.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 24 Jul - 18:07

You know, I was thinking about the subject of this thread yesterday and I realized that Rey and Kylo's dynamic is already so intimate and... life-changing for them. TBH, I would be happy if they kept the intensity from TFA in their interactions even without kissing & anguished declarations of love.

Rey and Kylo's interactions are based on surprise. They surprise each other constantly in the diegetic universe: Rey is surprised by Kylo in the Forceback, then in Takodana when he appears suddenly, then when she is able to read his mind, then when he asks to be her teacher. Kylo, on the other hand, displays curiosity for her from the beginning, when she appears out of nowhere and ruins his plans (WHAT GIRL???). Later, he is surprised to find that she is an ordinary scavenger. And then, she beats him twice at his own game.

I think part of what makes their dynamic so compelling is that all these "surprise moments" between the characters happen in plot points of the movie, surprising the audience as well. We share their bafflement at each other, and we feel closer to their dynamic.
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 24 Jul - 18:09

@SanghaRen wrote:
\"Darth Dingbat wrote:

... Ultimately, we're all quite ridiculous, spending our days speculating and obsessing over a film that came out almost two years ago and a film that has yet to come out.
@Darth Dingbat

LOL, this is the sanest thing I've heard.

And to ALL

I am the one who started saying that using BatB as an intentional support to romantic Reylo is imo a stretch so to be fair, you should also direct your discontentment at me. I don't think I was very tactful neither. I stick to my guns, but I have no issue with people speculating on it. I just kind of wonder too why we have such a thread when the majority or the vocal part of the forum is obviously very romantic. I mean I am not interested in butting heads - unfortunately I don't always manage to restrain myself - so if non romantic views are a disturbance and I feel they are, why have a thread that will create a disturbance in the first place.

Well, I still enjoy my idea of Ahsoka-Kanan unused scene as possibly the end of IX - end of TLJ might be early - and will go back to general SW stuff. Still 4 months + to go. And 3 days until I start my SW reading marathon. Suicide squad, I mean Inferno Squad, I am waiting for you to show up on my Kindle app.
@SanghaRen
I actually don't get the sense that anyone finds it disturbing. It's an interesting conversation to have and thus a necessary thread, imo. Even if someone would prefer the story to go one way, discussing a different potential direction can be intellectually challenging. And with that said, you can add me to the list of people who don't think anything of the literal BatB film parallels or random heart patterns. I just don't think it's super relevant to the topic of this thread, which should be used to discuss what else could develop between Rey and Kylo outside of romantic feelings.

The tone of how something is said can also matter a lot more than the subject. I don't think the issue was even saying "I don't believe in hearts and Disney parallels", but rather the tone of how it was said. There are lots of us who don't believe those particular theories.

@Piper_Maru
Great post, I totally agree. That is something I've been thinking about recently myself, as I will be the first to admit I've never wanted full-blown romantic Reylo with kissing and marriage and kids. It's not my style at all. Part of what makes their dynamic in TFA so interesting is the mystery behind the intensity. Taking away that element of mystery by explaining it might make it a lot less engaging. There is an intimacy and fascination that doesn't require any explanation at all, and you can keep that element of mystery and redeem Kylo through Rey (and others') indirect influences without basing the story around a literal romance. I just think there are bigger things at play. I for one would be perfectly satisfied if their relationship remained more "mysterious connection" than "romance". It's so much more intense and attractive to me that way.


Last edited by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 24 Jul - 18:15; edited 2 times in total
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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by IoJovi on Mon 24 Jul - 18:11

@SanghaRen wrote:
\"Darth Dingbat wrote:

... Ultimately, we're all quite ridiculous, spending our days speculating and obsessing over a film that came out almost two years ago and a film that has yet to come out.
@Darth Dingbat

LOL, this is the sanest thing I've heard.

And to ALL

I am the one who started saying that using BatB as an intentional support to romantic Reylo is imo a stretch so to be fair, you should also direct your discontentment at me. I don't think I was very tactful neither. I stick to my guns, but I have no issue with people speculating on it. I just kind of wonder too why we have such a thread when the majority or the vocal part of the forum is obviously very romantic. I mean I am not interested in butting heads - unfortunately I don't always manage to restrain myself - so if non romantic views are a disturbance and I feel they are, why have a thread that will create a disturbance in the first place.

Well, I still enjoy my idea of Ahsoka-Kanan unused scene as possibly the end of IX - end of TLJ might be early - and will go back to general SW stuff. Still 4 months + to go. And 3 days until I start my SW reading marathon. Suicide squad, I mean Inferno Squad, I am waiting for you to show up on my Kindle app.
@SanghaRen

@Darth Dingbat 's quote about how ridiculous we ALL are made me laugh out loud.  What's come out of it since is even more ridiculous, but in the best way possible.  Many of us have flown thousands of miles to build lifelong friendships and meet up with each other over what we thought we might have saw in a movie nearly two years ago.  Laughing

I'm probably one of the more romantic Reylo folks here.  I do admit the hearts discussion gets carried away at times, but it's all in good fun and keeps me occupied during a spoiler drought.  Heck, sometimes I have a hard time believing in the more subtle ones even I'll argue til my dying breath that the Kylo's heart eyes in the interrogation are purposeful...

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Re: The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

Post by WhatGirl on Mon 24 Jul - 18:27

Nevermind, I'm staying out of this. Razz


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