Rian's New Rules

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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by Saracene on Wed 12 Jul - 0:04

SoloSideCousin wrote:
Saracene wrote:Well, she goes after Finn because BB-8 told her that this guy stole Poe’s jacket. There’d be no reason for her to be nice, in those circumstances. And the whole thing is played more for the comical effect IMO.
@Saracene

There is being wary and then there is going instantly into rage mode and thrashing Finn. At the very least she has not been shown to be a big thinker when faced with a potential enemy. She goes right into "I will beat the s*** out of you/I will shoot you" almost very time. You could actually make the argument that it takes Kylo more time to go into rage mode, and that's saying something. IMO this kind of behavior from her is perfectly realistic. She has lived her whole life in a predator or prey kind of world. Making her not be full of rage would not fit IMO.
@SoloSideCousin

That's true, but then they kinda undercut it by having Rey instantly believe Finn's story of being from the Resistance. As if she's never dealt with liars and dodgy people in her life ever.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 12 Jul - 0:41

Saracene wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Saracene wrote:Well, she goes after Finn because BB-8 told her that this guy stole Poe’s jacket. There’d be no reason for her to be nice, in those circumstances. And the whole thing is played more for the comical effect IMO.
@Saracene

There is being wary and then there is going instantly into rage mode and thrashing Finn. At the very least she has not been shown to be a big thinker when faced with a potential enemy. She goes right into "I will beat the s*** out of you/I will shoot you" almost very time. You could actually make the argument that it takes Kylo more time to go into rage mode, and that's saying something. IMO this kind of behavior from her is perfectly realistic. She has lived her whole life in a predator or prey kind of world. Making her not be full of rage would not fit IMO.
@SoloSideCousin

That's true, but then they kinda undercut it by having Rey instantly believe Finn's story of being from the Resistance. As if she's never dealt with liars and dodgy people in her life ever.
@Saracene

I agree with you on that. I think initially she was supposed to be more antagonistic with Finn. They will need to make up their mind with her come TLJ.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by vaderito on Wed 12 Jul - 1:45

I think that beating Finn up was a residue from their angry relationship that JJ didn't think was working. So we know that he changed that into insta friendship but their meeting is likely that the old idea and kept because it fulfills the obligatory bad*** chick moment. 

That said, Rey and Kylo totally had sex at the cliffside and I hope their reunion is played that way, as two people who had sex and now don't know how to act around each other.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 12 Jul - 7:08

vaderito wrote:I think that beating Finn up was a residue from their angry relationship that JJ didn't think was working. So we know that he changed that into insta friendship but their meeting is likely that the old idea and kept because it fulfills the obligatory bad*** chick moment. 

That said, Rey and Kylo totally had sex at the cliffside and I hope their reunion is played that way, as two people who had sex and now don't know how to act around each other.
@vaderito

Completely agree. Kylo totally behaved like a guy trying to convince a girl to go to bed with him. We'll never know what really happened until they reunite because they are so many possibilities behind that scene. I guess that the truth will be revealed by Kylo since he was the one who made the proposal. I tend to believe that - as surprising as it sounds since the guy killed her father figure and nearly killed her only friend - she couldn't resist the temptation behind the proposal and later made him pay for that. If we consider that they sort of had sex, I can't help but thinking that Rey behaved like a person who first gives in to the intimate moment, then wakes up realizing that it was maybe a big mistake and finally  leaves his/her lover hurriedly in the morning, a little like this:


Bonus: One last look to the (sleeping) lover before leaving

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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 12 Jul - 11:53

Yesterday I was thinking about Rey having used or not the Dark side of the Force and suddenly this movie came to my mind. I don't even remember the name of it, but it's with Lindsay Lohan when she was still playing nice girl. She meets this guy and it triggers a swapping of bad luck / good luck every time they kiss. Rey and Kylo in TFA are always sort of swapping too. Not bad luck / good luck but light and dark side influences. She's scared, he's confident. She gains assurance, he loses assurance. She's angry, he's calm. The Force awakened all right but it looks very unstable. How do you make it stable again? Do you kill the cause of the unbalance? But what is the cause of the unbalance? Kylo or Rey? Or both?

So what if Luke also ultimately wants Rey to die. It's really bugging me that he would train her when he thinks that the Jedi have to end. So let's assume he trains her so she can kill Kylo. Then what? He does not want Jedi to roam around anymore but she's trained. What is he doing with her? Send her back to Jakku with a "Forget you training and your force abilities". And for whatever reason I keep hearing now Highlander's motto "There can be only one" Smile

If you think about it, nothing adds up right now. Luke wants the Jedi to end but trains Rey. Kylo wants the Jedi to end like his uncle but somehow he still ended on the other side of the conflict with Snoke. And Snoke says that if Luke returns, the new Jedi will rise but Luke wants the Jedi to end. So basically everyone wants the same thing i.e. the Jedi gone but they are still fighting against each other. Do you get like a prize from the Force for killing the last Jedi?
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 12 Jul - 13:28

SanghaRen wrote:Yesterday I was thinking about Rey having used or not the Dark side of the Force and suddenly this movie came to my mind. I don't even remember the name of it, but it's with Lindsay Lohan when she was still playing nice girl. She meets this guy and it triggers a swapping of bad luck / good luck every time they kiss. Rey and Kylo in TFA are always sort of swapping too. Not bad luck / good luck but light and dark side influences. She's scared, he's confident. She gains assurance, he loses assurance. She's angry, he's calm. The Force awakened all right but it looks very unstable. How do you make it stable again? Do you kill the cause of the unbalance? But what is the cause of the unbalance? Kylo or Rey? Or both?

So what if Luke also ultimately wants Rey to die. It's really bugging me that he would train her when he thinks that the Jedi have to end. So let's assume he trains her so she can kill Kylo. Then what? He does not want Jedi to roam around anymore but she's trained. What is he doing with her? Send her back to Jakku with a "Forget you training and your force abilities". And for whatever reason I keep hearing now Highlander's motto "There can be only one" Smile

If you think about it, nothing adds up right now. Luke wants the Jedi to end but trains Rey. Kylo wants the Jedi to end like his uncle but somehow he still ended on the other side of the conflict with Snoke. And Snoke says that if Luke returns, the new Jedi will rise but Luke wants the Jedi to end. So basically everyone wants the same thing i.e. the Jedi gone but they are still fighting against each other. Do you get like a prize from the Force for killing the last Jedi?
@SanghaRen

Why not?

Like you, I wonder what's the point with that Jedi training providing that it is really a Jedi training. By the end of TFA, Rey is only supposed to bring Luke to the Resistance as soon as possible. Plus, she has no profound motivation in becoming a Jedi. Contrary to ANH Luke, she has no father/mother figure to worship so that she would come to Luke and say: "I want to be a Jedi like my father". I can't believe either that she would come to him and say: "I want to become a Jedi to kill Kylo Ren". So the reason why Luke would delay his return and take time to train Rey instead  although he wants the Jedi to end is an interesting question  scratch

It would be indeed shocking for the GA to have Luke intending to use Rey to kill Kylo before crushing her but it could provide an interesting parallel with Snoke/Kylo's relationship:"Snoke is using you for your power! When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you!" . We know from the previous movies that one of the key rule in the Star Wars universe is that "always two they are:a master and an apprentice". At the beginning of TLJ, we will have two master/apprentice duos: Luke/Rey vs. Snoke/Kylo. The point that you raise in your post is really interesting:  Like you write, Snoke fears that Luke's return could lead to the rise of the new Jedi but Luke actually wants the Jedi to end. So Luke, Snoke and Kylo ain't from the same side although they seem to have the same goal with the end of the Jedi. However, they could actually work together toward the same goal if they wanted to, right? So could it be that Luke and Snoke end up working together toward the same goal by the end of TLJ Question It would be extremely shocking but looking at thee images from the spoiler thread...



Rian chose The Last Jedi as a title for the movie and said he consider it as singular despite the translations. Snoke ain't a Jedi. Luke wants the Jedi to end, which suggests that he doesn't consider himself as a Jedi anymore Question Can Rey be consider as a Jedi since Daisy herself seemed to have doubt about this Question In this case, the only option I see is Ben/Kylo as the Fallen Jedi. So could it be that Luke wants Kylo dead because he stil considers him as a Jedi Question It would be weird but after all we know that TFA got some inspiration from Hamlet (and by extension from the Lion King as Disney reference), where we have an antagonistic relationship between uncle and nephew.  

Rian told that the character's trajectory in TLJ was very much what we all experience during teenage years, which means rebellion against authority. We already know that Rey will experience it with Luke but I guess that Kylo will experience it with Snoke. When I was a teenager, I remember that I expressed my rebellion against the authority of my parents by throwing objects on the ground. That's when I look at this shot in particular, I can't help but thinking that maybe Kylo will rebel both against Snoke's fatherly authority and Vader's shadow at some point:


The debris around the mask in the TLJ trailer really look like someone threw the mask violently in a mirror (or something like that), which made me think to one Tangled scene since I can't help but see many similarities between Ben and Rapunzel. In TFA, Kylo is copying/mirroring Vader although we know that Ben is still alive within. In Tangled, Mother Gothel uses the mirror to depict Rapunzel like a nice, beautiful and obedient girl. So there is symbolic turning point when Rapunzel breaks indirectly the mirror: she makes it clear that she is not that obedient nice girl that Mother Gothel wants her to be.


In TFA, Kylo really looks like an obedient unsure teenager who can't bring himself to feel comfortable by showing his face to everybody around. On the VF, he is not only unmasked, he appears more as a grown and confident man.

We already assumed on this forum that maybe Luke's state could bring Kylo and Rey to work together. So my point is: could it be that TLJ would end up with two different duos by the end of TLJ: Luke/Snoke vs. Kylo/Ren Question TBH, it's not what I am expecting for the end of TLJ because I have another scenario in mind but still it could be an interesting masters vs. apprentices/ old generation vs. new generation face-to-face and indeed a new rule.

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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by Irina de France on Wed 12 Jul - 14:47

You know, I just had a thought about that concept art of Luke turning into Snoke...

I wonder if Snoke can *possess* people, basically take control of them for a short while. Like, we know Ben resisted Snoke's influence for twenty-three years, so with that theory, you could say that perhaps Ben is exceptionally resilient to Snoke's attempts to possess him, and when the latter manages to do so, it's only for a few seconds - for instance, when the sun goes out, Kylo kills Han, and when the deed is done, you could say he looks like he came out of a bad dream.

So if you're going to make Luke an antagonist, him being possessed by Snoke could be a way to go - and I could see a scenario where Luke is vulnerable to it since he could see himself as some Paragon of Light who can therefore not be corrupted. Considering the OT3's characterization is more similar to what we had in ESB, I could see an older Luke being this way and having that kind of savior complex that ultimately causes his downfall (which would not be unlike Anakin's...).

Okay, this is probably nonsense, but I just had to spit it out.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by WhatGirl on Wed 12 Jul - 17:38

Saracene wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Saracene wrote:Well, she goes after Finn because BB-8 told her that this guy stole Poe’s jacket. There’d be no reason for her to be nice, in those circumstances. And the whole thing is played more for the comical effect IMO.
@Saracene

There is being wary and then there is going instantly into rage mode and thrashing Finn. At the very least she has not been shown to be a big thinker when faced with a potential enemy. She goes right into "I will beat the s*** out of you/I will shoot you" almost very time. You could actually make the argument that it takes Kylo more time to go into rage mode, and that's saying something. IMO this kind of behavior from her is perfectly realistic. She has lived her whole life in a predator or prey kind of world. Making her not be full of rage would not fit IMO.
@SoloSideCousin

That's true, but then they kinda undercut it by having Rey instantly believe Finn's story of being from the Resistance. As if she's never dealt with liars and dodgy people in her life ever.
@Saracene

But wasn't it Rey's own assumption to begin with? After hearing his story regarding his and Poe Dameron's escape from the First Order, she goes, "So you're with the Resistance" and looks at him with the beginnings of admiration in her eyes before he even answers. It seems she was prepared to believe Finn if he simply confirmed what she already presumed. Even Poe thought Finn was with the Resistance at first until Finn said otherwise because no one really expects a stormtrooper to defect and rescue a Resistance fighter along with it.

I think that if Finn had approached Rey out of nowhere (without getting tattled on by BB-Cool and claimed to be part of the Resistance, she'd be skeptical then.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by vaderito on Wed 12 Jul - 17:43

Rian's new rule leaked! affraid

Spoiler:
Cousins can legally get married and have kids! cheers
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 12 Jul - 18:05

vaderito wrote:Rian's new rule leaked! affraid

Spoiler:
Cousins can legally get married and have kids! cheers
@vaderito

LOOOOOOL!!!!
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by Tex on Wed 12 Jul - 18:47

Irina de France wrote:You know, I just had a thought about that concept art of Luke turning into Snoke...

I wonder if Snoke can *possess* people, basically take control of them for a short while. Like, we know Ben resisted Snoke's influence for twenty-three years, so with that theory, you could say that perhaps Ben is exceptionally resilient to Snoke's attempts to possess him, and when the latter manages to do so, it's only for a few seconds - for instance, when the sun goes out, Kylo kills Han, and when the deed is done, you could say he looks like he came out of a bad dream.

So if you're going to make Luke an antagonist, him being possessed by Snoke could be a way to go - and I could see a scenario where Luke is vulnerable to it since he could see himself as some Paragon of Light who can therefore not be corrupted. Considering the OT3's characterization is more similar to what we had in ESB, I could see an older Luke being this way and having that kind of savior complex that ultimately causes his downfall (which would not be unlike Anakin's...).

Okay, this is probably nonsense, but I just had to spit it out.
@Irina de France

I was having similar thoughts and a discussion with @vaderito in the spoilers thread about this. It's sort of a crazy theory, but it's fun to speculate. Here's some of what we said minus spoilers.  

Tex wrote:I was wondering if when Luke and Ben went hunting for Jedi relics they discovered/unleashed Snoke?, at which point Snoke possessed Luke and Luke then "destroyed everything". Perhaps in Ben's efforts to get Luke "un-possessed" he himself became possessed? IDK LOL I'm just brainstorming here.

Vaderito wrote:Also, assuming Snoke is the predatory presence from UR that was troubling baby Ben Crying or Very sad it's possible that FO unleashed him rather than Luke/Ben. He isn't a factor at the end of Empire's End, we haven't met him yet.

Tex wrote: Yes, maybe the FO unleashed him? Or the Empire semi-unleashed him when they were doing that thing on Jakku?, but Snoke needs to feed off a force user perhaps to live? Then Luke and Ben come across Snoke and get possessed? Confus  
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by vaderito on Wed 12 Jul - 18:55

@Tex maybe Luke and Ben were roaming Unknown Regions? I mean, if Palp was compelled to go to UR due to the signal from it, who's to say Ben wasn't? Questions within questions within questions.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 12 Jul - 19:13

vaderito wrote:@Tex maybe Luke and Ben were roaming Unknown Regions? I mean, if Palp was compelled to go to UR due to the signal from it, who's to say Ben wasn't? Questions within questions within questions.
@vaderito

I think it's entirely possible that Ben and Luke were out in the UR. I mean, from Bloodline, we know that they were out doing something where they couldn't be reached by normal communication methods.

I've even wondered if Ben and Luke stumbled upon the map computer thingy on Jakku and were perhaps following that, similarly to how the Empire remnants did so at the end of Empire's End.

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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by Tex on Wed 12 Jul - 20:02

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
vaderito wrote:@Tex maybe Luke and Ben were roaming Unknown Regions? I mean, if Palp was compelled to go to UR due to the signal from it, who's to say Ben wasn't? Questions within questions within questions.
@vaderito

I think it's entirely possible that Ben and Luke were out in the UR. I mean, from Bloodline, we know that they were out doing something where they couldn't be reached by normal communication methods.  

I've even wondered if Ben and Luke stumbled upon the map computer thingy on Jakku and were perhaps following that, similarly to how the Empire remnants did so at the end of Empire's End.

@Vaderito

Questions, within questions, within questions, we're having an Inception moment here.



I'm liking this train of thought. Luke and Ben go exploring the UR for whatever it is that has been calling to Ben since infancy. Going off what @ISeeAnIsland said it's plausible that they were in the UR during the events of Bloodline.

So they find Snoke, possibly unleash him? Did he possess one of them? How does Luke get away? Is Kylo currently possessed or being controlled by Snoke or is he with Snoke of his own free will?
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by snufkin on Wed 12 Jul - 20:31

Sorry not to do with the current thread of discussion, but if you would like to read a 27,000 word essay about his filmmaking process and participation at Comic Con for Looper's release (which the whole business of D23 instead, Jesus is Disney all about being a monopoly) written in the style of Incredible Hulk, EW had "Film Critic Hulk" write this back in 2012. Also features appearances by JGL, his SO pre podcasting days, Kid Blue, and a discussion about the LA Dodgers

Film Crit Hulk on 'Looper,' Rian Johnson, and cinema

HULK IS ABOUT TO USE A PHRASE THAT SEEMS TO EVOKE ALL SORTS OF REACTIONS, BUT FOR HULK THE ONLY POSSIBLE REACTION IS A POSITIVE ONE. HULK WOULD SAY THAT RIAN JOHNSON IS “FILM SCHOOLY,” BUT IN THE BEST POSSIBLE WAY. IT’S NOT AN EASY THING TO ARTICULATE. IT’S NOT JUST THE WAY HE CAN NAVIGATE THE CRITERION COLLECTION WITH EASE, BUT LIKE ALL THINGS IT IS ABOUT HIS AFFECTATION. HE’S GENUINELY EXCITED TO SHARE IN THE DISCUSSION OF FILM. AND THAT WHOLLY INCLUDES THE ABILITY TO LISTEN, NOT SIMPLY TO ORATE ON IT. HE RECOMMENDS JARMUSCH’S DOWN BY LAW WITH SINCERITY, BUT HE DOESN’T MISS A BEAT WHEN HULK REFERENCES GIANNI DI VENANZO AND HIS COLLABORATION WITH FELLINI. BUT THE CONVERSATION NEVER ONCE FEELS LIKE A GAME. ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN IN THAT SCENARIO KNOWS WHAT HULK IS TALKING ABOUT. IT’S THE GAME OF WHAT DO YOU KNOW, REALLY? AND MOST FILM PEOPLE THANKFULLY PHASE IT OUT BY AGE 26. IN TRUTH, IT’S GAME HULK COULDN’T HOPE TO WIN ANYWAY. HE’LL PLAY COY AND RATTLE OF A LIST OF PEOPLE WHO COULD PUT HIM TO SHAME, BUT JOHNSON HAS THE KIND OF ENCYCLOPEDIA-LIKE KNOWLEDGE THAT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO RUN CIRCLES AROUND HULK. BUT LUCKILY, NEITHER OF US HAS ANY INTEREST IN EXPLORING SOME CINEMATIC TETE-E-TETE. IN FACT, IT’S THE FURTHEST THING FROM HIS MIND. MORE THAN ANYTHING JOHNSON DELIGHTS IN THE JOY OF TALKING ABOUT IDEAS.


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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by snufkin on Wed 12 Jul - 20:36

To do with the thread, but here's hoping that the UR weirdness they had Wendig hint at for Empire's End pays off for the Force plot. Like that would sound (in theory based on the little info from the books) genuinely interesting and world expanding versus just 'midichlorians.' And if they have to come up with a good reason for why somebody would leave their tiny child in a place like Jakku, either fleeing the weirdness or having to go back and face it would work in tying it all together.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 12 Jul - 22:42

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
vaderito wrote:@Tex maybe Luke and Ben were roaming Unknown Regions? I mean, if Palp was compelled to go to UR due to the signal from it, who's to say Ben wasn't? Questions within questions within questions.
@vaderito

I think it's entirely possible that Ben and Luke were out in the UR. I mean, from Bloodline, we know that they were out doing something where they couldn't be reached by normal communication methods.

I've even wondered if Ben and Luke stumbled upon the map computer thingy on Jakku and were perhaps following that, similarly to how the Empire remnants did so at the end of Empire's End.
@ISeeAnIsland

Going along with this, Leia said she couldn't reach Ben and Luke due to radiation interference. I will need to look over Thrawn, and Aftermath 2 and 3, but I am almost positive that radiation was one of the obstacles that needed to be overcome to travel to the UR, as earlier voyages had been taken down by radiation.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by Saracene on Thu 13 Jul - 8:10

WhatGirl wrote:
Saracene wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Saracene wrote:Well, she goes after Finn because BB-8 told her that this guy stole Poe’s jacket. There’d be no reason for her to be nice, in those circumstances. And the whole thing is played more for the comical effect IMO.
@Saracene

There is being wary and then there is going instantly into rage mode and thrashing Finn. At the very least she has not been shown to be a big thinker when faced with a potential enemy. She goes right into "I will beat the s*** out of you/I will shoot you" almost very time. You could actually make the argument that it takes Kylo more time to go into rage mode, and that's saying something. IMO this kind of behavior from her is perfectly realistic. She has lived her whole life in a predator or prey kind of world. Making her not be full of rage would not fit IMO.
@SoloSideCousin

That's true, but then they kinda undercut it by having Rey instantly believe Finn's story of being from the Resistance. As if she's never dealt with liars and dodgy people in her life ever.
@Saracene

But wasn't it Rey's own assumption to begin with? After hearing his story regarding his and Poe Dameron's escape from the First Order, she goes, "So you're with the Resistance" and looks at him with the beginnings of admiration in her eyes before he even answers. It seems she was prepared to believe Finn if he simply confirmed what she already presumed. Even Poe thought Finn was with the Resistance at first until Finn said otherwise because no one really expects a stormtrooper to defect and rescue a Resistance fighter along with it.

I think that if Finn had approached Rey out of nowhere (without getting tattled on by BB-Cool and claimed to be part of the Resistance, she'd be skeptical then.
@WhatGirl

You are right, Finn doesn't outright tell Rey that he's from the Resistance. But still, she just instantly believes the story about his and Poe's escape.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by WhatGirl on Thu 13 Jul - 23:50

Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:
Saracene wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Saracene wrote:Well, she goes after Finn because BB-8 told her that this guy stole Poe’s jacket. There’d be no reason for her to be nice, in those circumstances. And the whole thing is played more for the comical effect IMO.
@Saracene

There is being wary and then there is going instantly into rage mode and thrashing Finn. At the very least she has not been shown to be a big thinker when faced with a potential enemy. She goes right into "I will beat the s*** out of you/I will shoot you" almost very time. You could actually make the argument that it takes Kylo more time to go into rage mode, and that's saying something. IMO this kind of behavior from her is perfectly realistic. She has lived her whole life in a predator or prey kind of world. Making her not be full of rage would not fit IMO.
@SoloSideCousin

That's true, but then they kinda undercut it by having Rey instantly believe Finn's story of being from the Resistance. As if she's never dealt with liars and dodgy people in her life ever.
@Saracene

But wasn't it Rey's own assumption to begin with? After hearing his story regarding his and Poe Dameron's escape from the First Order, she goes, "So you're with the Resistance" and looks at him with the beginnings of admiration in her eyes before he even answers. It seems she was prepared to believe Finn if he simply confirmed what she already presumed. Even Poe thought Finn was with the Resistance at first until Finn said otherwise because no one really expects a stormtrooper to defect and rescue a Resistance fighter along with it.

I think that if Finn had approached Rey out of nowhere (without getting tattled on by BB-Cool and claimed to be part of the Resistance, she'd be skeptical then.
@WhatGirl

You are right, Finn doesn't outright tell Rey that he's from the Resistance. But still, she just instantly believes the story about his and Poe's escape.
@Saracene

BB-8 would've been able to spot any lies since he was there during the attack on the Jakku village and knew his owner would likely have been captured or killed by the First Order. A lot of the initial suspicion and tension died down as soon as Finn confirmed Poe's name with BB-8. Rey had made friends with the droid and most of her inclination to believe Finn's story about their escape probably depended on whether or not BB-8 believed him, which he did.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by Saracene on Fri 14 Jul - 0:12

WhatGirl wrote:
Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:
Saracene wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Saracene wrote:Well, she goes after Finn because BB-8 told her that this guy stole Poe’s jacket. There’d be no reason for her to be nice, in those circumstances. And the whole thing is played more for the comical effect IMO.
@Saracene

There is being wary and then there is going instantly into rage mode and thrashing Finn. At the very least she has not been shown to be a big thinker when faced with a potential enemy. She goes right into "I will beat the s*** out of you/I will shoot you" almost very time. You could actually make the argument that it takes Kylo more time to go into rage mode, and that's saying something.  IMO this kind of behavior from her is perfectly realistic. She has lived her whole life in a predator or prey kind of world. Making her not be full of rage would not fit IMO.
@SoloSideCousin

That's true, but then they kinda undercut it by having Rey instantly believe Finn's story of being from the Resistance. As if she's never dealt with liars and dodgy people in her life ever.
@Saracene

But wasn't it Rey's own assumption to begin with? After hearing his story regarding his and Poe Dameron's escape from the First Order, she goes, "So you're with the Resistance" and looks at him with the beginnings of admiration in her eyes before he even answers. It seems she was  prepared to believe Finn if he simply confirmed what she already presumed. Even Poe thought Finn was with the Resistance at first until Finn said otherwise because no one really expects a stormtrooper to defect and rescue a Resistance fighter along with it.

I think that if Finn had approached Rey out of nowhere (without getting tattled on by BB-Cool and claimed to be part of the Resistance, she'd be skeptical then.
@WhatGirl

You are right, Finn doesn't outright tell Rey that he's from the Resistance. But still, she just instantly believes the story about his and Poe's escape.
@Saracene

BB-8 would've been able to spot any lies since he was there during the attack on the Jakku village and knew his owner would likely have been captured or killed by the First Order. A lot of the initial suspicion and tension died down as soon as Finn confirmed Poe's name with BB-8. Rey had made friends with the droid and most of her inclination to believe Finn's story about their escape probably depended on whether or not BB-8 believed him, which he did.
@WhatGirl

There could still be plenty of scenarios where Finn could have known Poe’s story and still wasn’t necessarily his ally. But neither BB-8 nor Rey ask Finn any further questions and just accept whatever he says. His whole story about rescuing Poe and their ship crashing could have been a load of bs.

If Rey went along with, BB-8 believes him so I believe him too, I think that backs up my point about her trusting a bit too easily. I'd be asking Finn a lot more questions than that, and I didn't grow up in a hostile environment where one needs to be wary of strangers to survive.


Last edited by Saracene on Fri 14 Jul - 0:18; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 14 Jul - 0:14

WhatGirl wrote:
Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:
Saracene wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Saracene wrote:Well, she goes after Finn because BB-8 told her that this guy stole Poe’s jacket. There’d be no reason for her to be nice, in those circumstances. And the whole thing is played more for the comical effect IMO.
@Saracene

There is being wary and then there is going instantly into rage mode and thrashing Finn. At the very least she has not been shown to be a big thinker when faced with a potential enemy. She goes right into "I will beat the s*** out of you/I will shoot you" almost very time. You could actually make the argument that it takes Kylo more time to go into rage mode, and that's saying something.  IMO this kind of behavior from her is perfectly realistic. She has lived her whole life in a predator or prey kind of world. Making her not be full of rage would not fit IMO.
@SoloSideCousin

That's true, but then they kinda undercut it by having Rey instantly believe Finn's story of being from the Resistance. As if she's never dealt with liars and dodgy people in her life ever.
@Saracene

But wasn't it Rey's own assumption to begin with? After hearing his story regarding his and Poe Dameron's escape from the First Order, she goes, "So you're with the Resistance" and looks at him with the beginnings of admiration in her eyes before he even answers. It seems she was  prepared to believe Finn if he simply confirmed what she already presumed. Even Poe thought Finn was with the Resistance at first until Finn said otherwise because no one really expects a stormtrooper to defect and rescue a Resistance fighter along with it.

I think that if Finn had approached Rey out of nowhere (without getting tattled on by BB-Cool and claimed to be part of the Resistance, she'd be skeptical then.
@WhatGirl

You are right, Finn doesn't outright tell Rey that he's from the Resistance. But still, she just instantly believes the story about his and Poe's escape.
@Saracene

BB-8 would've been able to spot any lies since he was there during the attack on the Jakku village and knew his owner would likely have been captured or killed by the First Order. A lot of the initial suspicion and tension died down as soon as Finn confirmed Poe's name with BB-8. Rey had made friends with the droid and most of her inclination to believe Finn's story about their escape probably depended on whether or not BB-8 believed him, which he did.
@WhatGirl

That makes sense. It would also probably make sense on a macro level for Rey in that she would probably always trust a machine over a person in most situations.  It seems like she had no friends on Jakku, and most definitely spent a lot of time working with machinery.  The exception might be when some "hopeful little girl" thing turns on when somebody "mythical" is mentioned. (Han, Luke). Then she seems to trust immediately.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by WhatGirl on Fri 14 Jul - 0:49

Saracene wrote:There could still be plenty of scenarios where Finn could have known Poe’s story and still wasn’t necessarily his ally. But neither BB-8 nor Rey ask Finn any further questions and just accept whatever he says. His whole story about rescuing Poe and their ship crashing could have been a load of bs.

If Rey went along with, BB-8 believes him so I believe him too, I think that backs up my point about her trusting a bit too easily. I'd be asking Finn a lot more questions than that, and I didn't grow up in a hostile environment where one needs to be wary of strangers to survive.
@Saracene

For what it's worth, you could hear the empathy in Finn's voice when he tells BB-8 that Poe didn't make it in the crash. Everything about his tone of voice suggested that he was an ally/friend of Poe's and could relate to what BB-8 was feeling at that moment.

I don't personally think Rey was too trusting in this instance. I mean, Finn hadn't really done anything wrong. He was simply wearing Poe's jacket and his story checked out with BB-8 who was the only one there who could confirm/deny the validity of it.
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Re: Rian's New Rules

Post by snufkin on Fri 14 Jul - 4:25

Wasn't there a quote from JJ about how part of that initial exchange with Finn was about how Rey's life really was living in sad, backwater nowhere? Hence the line about saying that she only knew about Luke as a myth? Like her life was just so mundane and grim. She knows the locals at Niima and likely has some idea of the people coming and going from there if she's stuck with the belief that her family is coming back. So Finn obviously stands out as an outsider and the whole part of why she buys into his lie is that he's a breath of fresh air into her world. Like she's clearly impressed and excited, which likely isn't something she gets to experience much, if at all, during her daily life. Same with meeting Han, which coming from a criminal background would seem more like a real world person to her versus Luke and the Jedi.
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