Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by reylo1992 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:47 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:In short, Rian will correct JJ's 'mistakes', so to speak.

You make excellent points R. I can't help but also think the film was edited to make Kylo look 'less' sympathetic. The scene where he finds the Falcon, his comments to Rey about her 'shooting first' (ironic that), the scene in her Force vision where she sees a young Kylo in thrall to Snoke....along with Snoke accusing Kylo of having 'compassion' for Rey. They were all removed.

Hopefully people will change their minds post TLJ.

@motherofpearl1

Yep! I think that J.J. feared that the GA would get to the point too easily but asa result he made things difficult to get for someone who watch the movie just once. I always stress that I was fortunate to have watched TFA as I lived in Germany because Kylo's voice was so sexy in the interrogation scene that I couldn't ignore it where I would probably have missed something with the French version.

Now, I don't want  to backlash J.J. Abrams. I actually feel sorry for him that his movie doesn't get the recognition he should and I hope it will once TLJ comes out.

I find kind of disturbing that even the SW team stresses so much how much Rian did something different with TLJ, how much the upcoming movie is different from TFA, etc...I understand that they're afraid that the GA think that TLJ will be a poor remake of ESB like TFA was considered as a poor remake of ANH but still... And all these comments that I read on You tube about TFA being a bad movie, rey being a Mary Sue, Kylo being a weak villain, etc...

I understand people's reaction to TFA but I find some comments about pretty unfair. If TFA was just a poor remake of ANH, people wouldn't ask themselves so many questions about the plot more than a year after it came out.

Honestly,I find that J.J. made a great job no matter how much TFA seems to copy ANH at a first sight because my feeling is that it was meant to copy it to mislead the GA about the direction of the plot)
1) Symbolism is very present and really cinveys strong meaning in the story (Sun/Son - SKB/Snoke)
2) Various references were used as inspiration for the movie (BABT, Romeo and Juliet, E.T., etc..)
3) Dialogues are good (no terrible line like "I don't like sand", etc..)
4) Acting is really good - I dare say that TFA is the SW movie where the actor's performances is at their best
5) Powerful scenes that  bring genuine emotion (i.e. the ending scene with Luke and Rey)
6) Story focuses on the characters and their complexity rather than on action and black and white vision of the world
And I would add that thanks to J.J. and his mystery, we have been spending wonderful time analysing TFA with so many different interpretations for one and a half year now Very Happy
I dare say that in many levels, I find TFA better than many other SW movies.

Now I agree that J.J. certainly went a little too far with his mystery box and that it is indeed Rian's job to correct some misunderstanding.  So I really hope that Rian inserted the same kind of dialogue between Snoke and Kylo than those we got in the TFA novel, especially in regard to his little speech about compassion. I have faith that many things will fall into place when TLJ comes out and that J.J.'s job will be credited for that.


Last edited by reylo1992 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:51 am

@vaderito wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Hmm so maybe Leia slaps Poe for being a daredevil.
@Saracene

he'd beaten to a pulp if she slapped him every time he was a daredevil. lol!

One thing is certain, if Poe and Kylo get a dogfight, Dark Pilot is going to launch 1000 fanfics in one day. Twisted Evil
@vaderito

I wish that in such a dogfight that they would be able to trash talk each other on the same channel. AD and OI are great together. Too bad that is very unlikely because the FO and Resistance would be on different frequencies.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by vaderito on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:58 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:  

I wish that in such a dogfight that they would be able to trash talk each other on the same channel. AD and OI are great together. Too bad that is very unlikely because the FO and Resistance would be on different frequencies.
@SoloSideCousin

That would be amazing! I'm sure they'll trash talk each other in IX when they are on the same frequency, though. No way that Kylo doesn't fly MF at some point.

Speaking of, this just shows what a missed opportunity  it was when they deleted Kylo on MF:





So han was teaching him and the memory is painful to Kylo. And they deleted that splended piece of acting. There better be something similar but w/o mask.

Also, notice they are emphasizing "father" not "grandfather". Hmmmm.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:02 am

Why didn't Han see this?

It's funny, but I have this feeling he wanted to be his dad all his life.

He told Rey Han would have disappointed her. I think inside he thought he'd disappointed Han.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by vaderito on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:08 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Why didn't Han see this?

It's funny, but I have this feeling he wanted to be his dad all his life.

He told Rey Han would have disappointed her. I think inside he thought he'd disappointed Han.
@motherofpearl1

Kylo is so complicated, you never know when he's projecting and when he's not. So that may be another of his projections. "I disappointed him" rather than "he disappointed me".
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:13 am

@vaderito wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:  

I wish that in such a dogfight that they would be able to trash talk each other on the same channel. AD and OI are great together. Too bad that is very unlikely because the FO and Resistance would be on different frequencies.
@SoloSideCousin

That would be amazing! I'm sure they'll trash talk each other in IX when they are on the same frequency, though. No way that Kylo doesn't fly MF at some point.

Speaking of, this just shows what a missed opportunity  it was when they deleted Kylo on MF:





So han was teaching him and the memory is painful to Kylo. And they deleted that splended piece of acting. There better be something similar but w/o mask.

Also, notice they are emphasizing "father" not "grandfather". Hmmmm.
@vaderito

Yes!!!! I am starting to think that a good portion of Kylo/Ben's Vader ways are going to turn out be just a front, but in the end he will really be his own father's son and Leia's son, while Luke will really be the Anakin/Vader son more than ever before.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by vaderito on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:19 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:

Yes!!!! I am starting to think that a good portion of Kylo/Ben's Vader ways are going to turn out be just a front, but in the end he will really be his own father's son and Leia's son, while Luke will really be the Anakin/Vader son more than ever before.
@SoloSideCousin

That's not a bad thinking!

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:21 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Why didn't Han see this?

It's funny, but I have this feeling he wanted to be his dad all his life.

He told Rey Han would have disappointed her. I think inside he thought he'd disappointed Han.
@motherofpearl1

The new piloting info adds to the theory that perhaps young Ben had actually wanted to be a pilot like his father, rather than a Jedi/Force-wielder.

Also...new headcanon for me: Kylo and Poe get into a Jaws-style d***-measuring contest over their piloting skills...with Leia and/or Rey rolling their eyes in the background.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:21 am

@reylo1992 wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:In short, Rian will correct JJ's 'mistakes', so to speak.

You make excellent points R. I can't help but also think the film was edited to make Kylo look 'less' sympathetic. The scene where he finds the Falcon, his comments to Rey about her 'shooting first' (ironic that), the scene in her Force vision where she sees a young Kylo in thrall to Snoke....along with Snoke accusing Kylo of having 'compassion' for Rey. They were all removed.

Hopefully people will change their minds post TLJ.

@motherofpearl1

Yep! I think that J.J. feared that the GA would get to the point too easily but asa result he made things difficult to get for someone who watch the movie just once. I always stress that I was fortunate to have watched TFA as I lived in Germany because Kylo's voice was so sexy in the interrogation scene that I couldn't ignore it where I would probably have missed something with the French version.

Now, I don't want  to backlash J.J. Abrams. I actually feel sorry for him that his movie doesn't get the recognition he should and I hope it will once TLJ comes out.

I find kind of disturbing that even the SW team stresses so much how much Rian did something different with TLJ, how much the upcoming movie is different from TFA, etc...I understand that they're afraid that the GA think that TLJ will be a poor remake of ESB like TFA was considered as a poor remake of ANH but still... And all these comments that I read on You tube about TFA being a bad movie, rey being a Mary Sue, Kylo being a weak villain, etc...

I understand people's reaction to TFA but I find some comments about pretty unfair. If TFA was just a poor remake of ANH, people wouldn't ask themselves so many questions about the plot more than a year after it came out.

Honestly,I find that J.J. made a great job no matter how much TFA seems to copy ANH at a first sight because my feeling is that it was meant to copy it to mislead the GA about the direction of the plot)
1) Symbolism is very present and really cinveys strong meaning in the story (Sun/Son - SKB/Snoke)
2) Various references were used as inspiration for the movie (BABT, Romeo and Juliet, E.T., etc..)
3) Dialogues are good (no terrible line like "I don't like sand", etc..)
4) Acting is really good - I dare say that TFA is the SW movie where the actor's performances is at their best
5) Powerful scenes that  bring genuine emotion (i.e. the ending scene with Luke and Rey)
6) Story focuses on the characters and their complexity rather than on action and black and white vision of the world
And I would add that thanks to J.J. and his mystery, we have been spending wonderful time analysing TFA with so many different interpretations for one and a half year now Very Happy
I dare say that in many levels, I find TFA better than many other SW movies.

Now I agree that J.J. certainly went a little too far with his mystery box and that it is indeed Rian's job to correct some misunderstanding.  So I really hope that Rian inserted the same kind of dialogue between Snoke and Kylo than those we got in the TFA novel, especially in regard to his little speech about compassion. I have faith that many things will fall into place when TLJ comes out and that J.J.'s job will be credited for that.
@reylo1992

I heard so much badpress about TFA I didn't want to watch it. Then I did and I will never listen to other people's opinions again.

It's worth seeing more than once because it has far more depth to it than it seems. With the OT the true depth only started to appear during ESB. Darth Vader's revelation, Han and Leia's love story....the film went so far away from fan expectations it was breathtaking. But TFA is a movie with far more layers than the 'sunny delight' of ANH. The complexities are already there.
I think the ST has the potential to eclipse the OT. And as someone who lived and breathed the OT as a kid.....I hope so!
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ReyofLightSide on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:27 am

@Krafty wrote:Just caught up!
Expert Pilot eh? YES! How could he not be in true, Skywalker/Solo form!
You know, I always felt like that quip he said to Poe about "I had no idea we had the best resistance pilot..blah blah" sounded and was meant to be condescending.
lol!
@Krafty

I have thought that as well. I thought he knew Poe, but Poe didn't realize it was Ben Solo in the mask. But his sarcasm was evident, especially when he follows with, "Comfortable?" Haaaa. There was no talk of impressive access to the Imperial archives for Poe and Kylo.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by vaderito on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:31 am

So Kylo's his father's son. That's my biggest takeaway. They are gonna address Han/Ben and it better be emotional af! I want tears - Kylo, audience, everyone.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ReyofLightSide on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:32 am

@vaderito wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:  

I wish that in such a dogfight that they would be able to trash talk each other on the same channel. AD and OI are great together. Too bad that is very unlikely because the FO and Resistance would be on different frequencies.
@SoloSideCousin

That would be amazing! I'm sure they'll trash talk each other in IX when they are on the same frequency, though. No way that Kylo doesn't fly MF at some point.

Speaking of, this just shows what a missed opportunity  it was when they deleted Kylo on MF:





So han was teaching him and the memory is painful to Kylo. And they deleted that splended piece of acting. There better be something similar but w/o mask.

Also, notice they are emphasizing "father" not "grandfather". Hmmmm.
@vaderito

So basically Kylo commissioned a newer FO version of the MF. Smile
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Helix on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:53 am

Black Series giving us a good front and back look at Rey's new outfit.



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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Birdwoman on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:55 am

@reylo1992

I don't understand the JJ hate by some Star Wars fans.  I went into TFA completely unspoiled and did not follow the press around the movie.  I loved it and could see what JJ was trying to do.  He was reviving a beloved series that was laying dormant moviewise for many years. The last set of movies, were controversial with the GA and long time fans. So he had a huge responsibility to revive Star Wars again and make movies that the GA will love.  So, I completely understood that he had to bring callbacks and nostalgia into the movies to warm the audience up, show them this is not like the prequel trilogy and then introduce the new characters.  I feel, that the OT characters are now the supporting ones, they are handing over the baton to the new generation.  That is why I don't worry too much about Luke being the main focus of TLJ.  Luke is handing over the baton to the new force users in this movie.  He will be important like Han and Leia...but he will not be central anymore.  
I have watched TFA numerous times (I have kids that love that movie), the story they are telling is what brought me into Star Wars fandom. It is exciting and not at all just a rehash of the OT.

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:55 am

Umm, are people seeing something I'm not? Also, is it surprising that Rey and Kylo are in scenes together on Ahch-To? Oh well, let's get hyped at the possibility that's what's happening here anyway!  cheers

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:58 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Persephone wrote:
@reylo1992

Agreed. On all points. Very good and thorough analysis.
TLJ is Ren's movie. I personally don't buy for a second the "Rey and Luke are the beating heart" marketing. It may be the truth Rian speaks, but not in a literal way.

@motherofpearl1 I have a feeling that TFA was such an amazing movie editing-wise before they decided to re-edit it just a few months before it was released.... Sad Sad so many amazing dialogue and scenes were cut, re-filmed and re-designed. I don't get why they did this, they had a great finished product, why decide to re-arrange the entire film like 3 months before its premiere? Did someone panic? well, it would have been nice to see TFA vol 1.
@Persephone

I wonder if we might just see some of those deleted scenes in TLJ.
@motherofpearl1

I'm almost expecting to see the "you have compassion for her" dialogue moved to Kylo's meeting with Snoke at the beginning of TLJ.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ReyofLightSide on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:01 pm

@Helix wrote:Black Series giving us a good front and back look at Rey's new outfit.



@Helix

So she doesn't have a bun in her hair- thought she had at least one on top but her hair is just tied back.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by snufkin on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:02 pm

@Persephone - agreed. I moved on from the OT when adolescence hit and don't come from a family where it was some huge central thing (2001 was more the sci-fi movie my dad was obsessed with). So the business of people having some core identity around the franchise. Not to mention some men in their stanning for either Vader or Han as avatars of masculinity, wasn't on my radar. But he's very much written to as somebody to grapple with the legacy of both of those characters as male role models. Just even the way he's presented, which @MeadowofAshes rightly nailed as being part of the female gaze. I think that's part of what unsettles a lot of fans and provokes the emo wuss narrative. And it's not a binary Either/Or that fans hate him because of bad writing/marketing or the thematic material. Fans can have issues with him both because of the writing/marketing and also because the underlying themes explored are unsettling/hit a nerve.

@solosidecousin - agreed on how it's actually about Luke and Ben grappling with who their fathers were and the parts of that they can't accept/have to accept. And I think a central part of Ben's backstory will be about the closeness he likely had with Han and what went wrong. As far as Luke goes, it's going to be very interesting to see how it plays out given how a major theme in Bloodline is coming to terms with the legacies of your parents. They show Leia trying to keep Vader shoved out of site while trying to be the type of person their mother and her adoptive father were. Can't help but guess that something similar will be in play for Luke, except it'll be about trying to live up to the public face he and Leia presented. Living up to the "good" example of their father and Obi-Wan while trying to ignore/hide the bad things. And learning that it was indeed one man, can't separate the life and actions into two separate people. Which is itself an interesting question to tackle about a society that is in turmoil over what legacy to follow when both have some extremely bad points.

Side thought - I'm guessing that they'll show factions develop on both sides, the Resistance and the First Order. And that ultimately the "good" guys and the "bad" guy will be in the underdog but more principled groups. Versus people like Hux and we can guess at Laura Dern's character being somebody who would fit in with Bloodline. Interested in their own power plays and positions. So there could be a possible uneasy alliance of these renegade characters for the greater good. Which would start with the forced Blind Date on Ache-to, where Rey is really the first character to see the bigger picture and have to cross the aisle.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ReyofLightSide on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:02 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Umm, are people seeing something I'm not? Also, is it surprising that Rey and Kylo are in scenes together on Ahch-To? Oh well, let's get hyped at the possibility that's what's happening here anyway!  cheers

@Cowgirlsamurai

So Rey is facing someone, so is that a small monitor showing Kylo? I would never notice if it not pointed out to me and I am still not sure.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by vaderito on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:03 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Umm, are people seeing something I'm not? Also, is it surprising that Rey and Kylo are in scenes together on Ahch-To? Oh well, let's get hyped at the possibility that's what's happening here anyway!  cheers

@Cowgirlsamurai

OK, I've no clue what I'm supposed to see in that circle but her outfit does match their fight in the rain (no vest).

is that from BTS? lets find the timing and see.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth Dingbat on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:06 pm

Alas, I don't think that's Kylo. I thought it might be but then I looked at the video more closely, and I think it's just the woman's hand gripping the whatever-that-thing-is.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by vaderito on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:08 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:Alas, I don't think that's Kylo. I thought it might be but then I looked at the video more closely, and I think it's just the woman's hand gripping the whatever-that-thing-is.
@Darth Dingbat

Do you know where it is in the video, what second/minute? I don't think it's him either but just to be sure.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth Dingbat on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:09 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:Alas, I don't think that's Kylo. I thought it might be but then I looked at the video more closely, and I think it's just the woman's hand gripping the whatever-that-thing-is.
@Darth Dingbat

Do you know where it is in the video, what second/minute? I don't think it's him either but just to be sure.
@vaderito

Can't remember the time stamp right now, but it's the scene where Luke is atop a cliff in a brown hobo outfit and a sling bag.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Little_Boots on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:09 pm

Looks like the guys earphones in the circle!
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Piper Maru on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:09 pm



It's from this shot.
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