Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 9 Aug - 1:26

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland

Kylo in many ways was the heart of TFA even though he significantly less screen time than say Rey or Finn. So I think Luke could play a similar role, or could maybe be like Vader, kind of hovering over every moment.

In the end I always go back to the teaser poster. Until we see something that really contradicts that, I think the movie is going to all about Rey being in this fork in the road between Kylo/Ben and Luke ... and not just between them personally, but between their philosophies. Just like John just said in his interview, everyone needs to figure out what they believe and what they're fighting for.

Rey is going into this thinking that Luke is this legendary figure, with that naive "You're with the Resistance", "The Jedi were real," and "You're Han Solo" way of hers, where almost like a child she thinks these legendary people have all the answers. And I think she is going to (1) have that childhood delusion of heroes smashed and realize their is no all wise person, (2) that things in real life are never simple, never just black and white, (3) that the villain in black may have his good qualities and may even be someone a little heroic from a certain point of view, and (4) she is going to have to piece this all together and find her own way ... and that way may not be the way everyone chooses.

Luke and Kylo are the major catalyst for all that self discovery. In the end it comes down to the poster, she is between Luke and Kylo's worlds and will have something major to contribute to both of them.

As for Rian saying that Luke and Rey are the heartbeat, I think that's true ... but I think that it's not just a duo, but a trio, but Kylo is being treated like the silent partner right now because they don't even want to mention Kylo, because to mention him will lead to questions about him, and there are just a lot of secrets there. Luke is safer to talk about because even though I am sure he has huge secrets, the doesn't "look like" he has secrets, whereas Kylo really does seem to be one big secret.

Also, being one of the people who is currently expecting a pretty messed up/darkish Luke, I don't think she will start with Luke as her antagonist, but by the end of the movie she will get there, and by the end, everything she thought she could count on is turned upside down, and support might come from the most unexpected places.

I keep thinking of one of the earliest episodes of Scrubs. JD has this SW themed daydream where he thinks Kelso is like the good, Obi-Wan one and Cox being a jerk is like Vader. But then he realizes Kelso is awful under the kindly veneer, and suddenly JD is kind of bereft, wondering "who's the hero?" And then realizes that despite being extremely flawed and being a pretty big jacka** (sound familiar, lol), that Dr. Cox really is the hero ... super imperfect, but heroic. Obviously, SW is not Scrubs, but there is a similarity of both JD and Rey having their "welcome to how it really is ... where nothing is simple" moment.

Seriously, I love that teaser poster so much with mean Luke and sad, boyish Ben, lol. It affects so much of my viewpoint because it just seems to crystallize things. :-)
@SoloSideCousin

I needed this post. Wink

In trying to dig up interesting things to share here, I've been hanging out way too many other places online that are really skeptical of Luke being anything worse than a reluctant mentor who initially doesn't want to train Rey but then comes around.  And when I trust my own gut/eyes, that isn't want I think we're getting.

And yes, that teaser poster is life! It's framed and hanging in my living room, and I smile every time I walk past it. There are reasons why KK and Rian were drawn to that poster out of the 40 other options!
@ISeeAnIsland

You have to be careful in those other places, lol. It's like working with radioactive material, you can only take so much per day before it starts doing things to you.

I rarely venture outside of here because there is just so much inanity out there.  But once in a while when it is slow here, I go to Reddit to see what crack spoilers people are coming up with, and though there are always a few lone voices of critical thinking, they usually are completely drowned out, not just by the trash fire talk, but by utter denseness. It's like "ask a few critical questions people!" But then you keep reading and you start to think ... "Maybe they will just make the movie for these 'Luke is All' people." I actually got thrown the other day because some were actually writing this "clever on the surface but not really"
analysis that Luke looked like a villain on Jason's posters because the posters were portraying 'how Kylo sees Luke, not how he really is.'" And then I was like wait ... And then I took a breath and realized that they wouldn't be so meta as to make the poster so obscure as to have it be in Kylo's mind, lol. Then I knew my docimeter was done for the day, lol.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 9 Aug - 1:31

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland

Kylo in many ways was the heart of TFA even though he significantly less screen time than say Rey or Finn. So I think Luke could play a similar role, or could maybe be like Vader, kind of hovering over every moment.

In the end I always go back to the teaser poster. Until we see something that really contradicts that, I think the movie is going to all about Rey being in this fork in the road between Kylo/Ben and Luke ... and not just between them personally, but between their philosophies. Just like John just said in his interview, everyone needs to figure out what they believe and what they're fighting for.

Rey is going into this thinking that Luke is this legendary figure, with that naive "You're with the Resistance", "The Jedi were real," and "You're Han Solo" way of hers, where almost like a child she thinks these legendary people have all the answers. And I think she is going to (1) have that childhood delusion of heroes smashed and realize their is no all wise person, (2) that things in real life are never simple, never just black and white, (3) that the villain in black may have his good qualities and may even be someone a little heroic from a certain point of view, and (4) she is going to have to piece this all together and find her own way ... and that way may not be the way everyone chooses.

Luke and Kylo are the major catalyst for all that self discovery. In the end it comes down to the poster, she is between Luke and Kylo's worlds and will have something major to contribute to both of them.

As for Rian saying that Luke and Rey are the heartbeat, I think that's true ... but I think that it's not just a duo, but a trio, but Kylo is being treated like the silent partner right now because they don't even want to mention Kylo, because to mention him will lead to questions about him, and there are just a lot of secrets there. Luke is safer to talk about because even though I am sure he has huge secrets, the doesn't "look like" he has secrets, whereas Kylo really does seem to be one big secret.

Also, being one of the people who is currently expecting a pretty messed up/darkish Luke, I don't think she will start with Luke as her antagonist, but by the end of the movie she will get there, and by the end, everything she thought she could count on is turned upside down, and support might come from the most unexpected places.

I keep thinking of one of the earliest episodes of Scrubs. JD has this SW themed daydream where he thinks Kelso is like the good, Obi-Wan one and Cox being a jerk is like Vader. But then he realizes Kelso is awful under the kindly veneer, and suddenly JD is kind of bereft, wondering "who's the hero?" And then realizes that despite being extremely flawed and being a pretty big jacka** (sound familiar, lol), that Dr. Cox really is the hero ... super imperfect, but heroic. Obviously, SW is not Scrubs, but there is a similarity of both JD and Rey having their "welcome to how it really is ... where nothing is simple" moment.

Seriously, I love that teaser poster so much with mean Luke and sad, boyish Ben, lol. It affects so much of my viewpoint because it just seems to crystallize things. :-)
@SoloSideCousin

I needed this post. Wink

In trying to dig up interesting things to share here, I've been hanging out way too many other places online that are really skeptical of Luke being anything worse than a reluctant mentor who initially doesn't want to train Rey but then comes around.  And when I trust my own gut/eyes, that isn't want I think we're getting.

And yes, that teaser poster is life! It's framed and hanging in my living room, and I smile every time I walk past it. There are reasons why KK and Rian were drawn to that poster out of the 40 other options!
@ISeeAnIsland

You have to be careful in those other places, lol. It's like working with radioactive material, you can only take so much per day before it starts doing things to you.

I rarely venture outside of here because there is just so much inanity out there.  But once in a while when it is slow here, I go to Reddit to see what crack spoilers people are coming up with, and though there are always a few lone voices of critical thinking, they usually are completely drowned out, not just by the trash fire talk, but by utter denseness. It's like "ask a few critical questions people!" But then you keep reading and you start to think ... "Maybe they will just make the movie for these 'Luke is All' people." I actually got thrown the other day because some were actually writing this "clever on the surface but not really"
analysis that Luke looked like a villain on Jason's posters because the posters were portraying 'how Kylo sees Luke, not how he really is.'" And then I was like wait ... And then I took a breath and realized that they wouldn't be so meta as to make the poster so obscure as to have it be in Kylo's mind, lol. Then I knew my docimeter was done for the day, lol.
@SoloSideCousin

YES!!! I saw that thread/post! I think that was the one where they were talking about how the "dark Luke" marketing strategy was meant to be a diversion??? So that they could get the GA all worried, and then Luke would just turn out to be a cantankerous mentor?

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Lily Snape on Wed 9 Aug - 2:26

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@MrsWindu wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@MrsWindu wrote:I go off for a few hours and missed all this goodness...bet you're getting bored of me harping on but I LOVE reading all of these views, I can't read them fast enough.

@IoJovi 4 months!!!  Any predictions on the next trailer at all?
@MrsWindu

People might not like hearing this, but in predicting October.  That's the same time TFA's was released in 2015, and it was during a football game.  I normally cannot sit through an entire game of football without dying of boredom, but I did for that.  Laughing

And little did I even know then what kind of effect that movie would have on me...
@IoJovi

Oh gosh I remember that trailer. I was curious about TFA before it opened not necessarily excited and didn't know what to think of the Rey in opening of trailer but I almost peed my pants when Han said 'it's all real'

Forgive me as I've never lived in the US is this football match a big deal? Well that's only 10 weeks away?
@MrsWindu

Football season lasts from the beginning September, ending with the Superbowl usually in mid February.  I just asked my husband if he remembers the specific game we watched for that trailer.  He doesn't remember the exact game, but he seems to think it was Monday night football, which is a weekly event here during that time frame.  

By asking him this question he's now talking my head off about football, so....  Laughing

To answer your question though, American Football is a pretty big deal here in the US in general, both at the professional and college level.  I feel like I'm one of a handful of people here who doesn't follow it...
@IoJovi

I am in that handful too. I don't think I will ever understand it. It takes like 4 hours to play a game because of all the rules and time-outs.
@SoloSideCousin

As I've said many a time, I understand Quidditch far better than American football.  And I've lived in the US since I was a child.  Smile My brother says it makes more sense if you view it as a chess game.  The players are the pieces.  The coach is controlling the pieces and trying to get them across the board.  Still, I'd rather watch a good Quidditch match any day.  Smile
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 9 Aug - 2:37

@panki wrote:I think Rey's diving into the water and swimming to find an object/defeat a monster symbolizes a deeper inner journey and spiritual quest that she must undertake so having anyone rescue her here would undermine it. There were rumors of DR spending time in a sensory deprivation tank as well...this all points to something more spiritual going on in the water scene.

But that being said, Kylo rescuing Rey would definitely make her question whether he is a bad guy especially when combined with some sad flashback.

A more plausible scenario where the rescue happens is the fight scene involving 25-30 characters. i think either Snoke sends FO people or Unkar sends bounty hunters to capture Rey (since the second movie in each trilogy involves bounty hunters at some point) and she gets injured and overwhelmed. This would explain the injury on her forehead and arm.

Kylo lands up and helps her defeat them, probably getting injured in the process. This could easily transition to her tending his wounds in a beehive hut and Luke's hutslaying scene.
@panki

Yeah, I think this scenario is more plausible.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Kyla Ren on Wed 9 Aug - 3:30

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@nemapasara wrote:@WhatGirl @Cowgirlsamurai

Is it possible that maybe it's just safety protocol that she does a clean dive into the tank instead of being pushed off by someone or just falling in? I'm not too sure how it usually works though so I could be wrong.
@nemapasara

I have nooo idea about that kind of thing. Maybe the "dive" will appear differently on screen. But then there was that "dive" where she's attached to cables? Is that going to be her getting pulled from the water? Maybe these shots are all going to be played backwards Laughing
@Cowgirlsamurai

I didn't know about the dive where she was attached to cables.  Was that something from a behind the scenes photo or something like that?
@Kyla Ren

Here's a still of that shot. It doesn't necessarily look like she's diving into water, but she is hooked up to bungee cables.



If you watch the BTS video, this particular shot takes place at 2:05:

@ISeeAnIsland

Thank you for posting that. Smile  In all the times that I've watched it I don't think I noticed the cables or connected it with the diving scene.  So much for my powers of observation! Laughing
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by tukicarreno on Wed 9 Aug - 9:53

Is that really Daisy in the cables though? It´s probably her stunt double, not sure that is her body. Looks way too muscular compared to Daisy´s but she might have bulked up during filming.

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by nemapasara on Wed 9 Aug - 12:13

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 9 Aug - 12:18

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by nemapasara on Wed 9 Aug - 12:20

@Darth_Awakened

Looks like he's been crying, too. Definitely a softer look about him this time around.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 9 Aug - 12:23

@nemapasara wrote:
@Darth_Awakened

Looks like he's been crying, too. Definitely a softer look about him this time around.
@nemapasara

It seems to me as well. Kylo being CRY-lo again.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 9 Aug - 12:25



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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 9 Aug - 12:27



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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Moonlight13 on Wed 9 Aug - 12:27

@nemapasara wrote:
@Darth_Awakened

Looks like he's been crying, too. Definitely a softer look about him this time around.
@nemapasara

True!. I can see a tear about to fall from his left eye. Smile
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Birdwoman on Wed 9 Aug - 12:28

The one thing in the behind-the-scenes reel, is the scene where someone is force thrown at the casino. I am wondering who that can be? I wonder if they go with corrupted Luke that he ends up at Canto baight looking for DJ or Finn? Just some speculation on a Wednesday morning....


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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 9 Aug - 12:29




Our first look at: CANTO BAIGHT!


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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 9 Aug - 12:30

So Finn is flying one of those Crait speeders!

And oooohhh, Canto Bight:

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 9 Aug - 12:35

@Darth Dingbat wrote:So Finn is flying one of those Crait speeders!

And oooohhh, Canto Bight:

@Darth Dingbat

They did it.
It looks gorgeous. No it's not Dubrovnik 2.0 nor Kings Landing 2.0. which I was afraid of!
It's Canto Baight.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 9 Aug - 12:42

@tukicarreno wrote:Is that really Daisy in the cables though? It´s probably her stunt double, not sure that is her body. Looks way too muscular compared to Daisy´s but she might have bulked up during filming.
@tukicarreno

It could very well be her stunt double, but it does look like a brunette female, so I'm guessing that it's "Rey" in the cables no matter what.

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 9 Aug - 12:43

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by BenOrgana on Wed 9 Aug - 12:46

Some interesting points here:

http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/09/star-wars-last-jedi-rey-luke-skywalker-daisy-ridley-mark-hamill/

- Rey arrives on Ahch-to to push Luke back into the fight, not to become a hero herself
- Luke doesn't want her there, and refuses her call
- Rey and Luke have to "work together to become whole again" - Rey dealing with her abandonment issues, Luke with his guilt
- Luke is on the island because he believes he is doing the right thing by stepping away from the galaxy
- Luke is there because he feels guilt at not spotting the darkness in Kylo, who he "made a huge mistake" with by thinking he was the chosen one
- The big obstacle he has to overcome before rejoining the Jedi hierarchy is overcoming that guilt
- Mark and Rian created a post-Return of the Jedi backstory for Luke together

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 9 Aug - 12:48

@Darth Dingbat

Some interesting stuff there. For example:

“Luke] made a huge mistake in thinking that his nephew was the chosen one, so he invested everything he had in Kylo, much like Obi-Wan did with my character,” Hamill says. “And he is betrayed, with tragic consequences. Luke feels responsible for that. That’s the primary obstacle he has to rejoining the world and his place in the Jedi hierarchy, you know? It’s that guilt, that feeling that it’s his fault, that he didn’t detect the darkness in him until it was too late.”

Well, there's something I never would have guessed... Luke thinking Ben was the Chosen One. Hmmm what the heck.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by EchoBase on Wed 9 Aug - 12:48

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Mrs Ben Solo on Wed 9 Aug - 12:48

@Darth Dingbat

This is exactly what I was expecting with Luke and Rey tbh, not all the Evil!Luke stuff. I know it will disappoint some but I think it could be really uplifting if done well. There is still the matter of where Kylo landing on Ahch-To comes into it, which is bound to shake things up.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 9 Aug - 12:51

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth Dingbat

Some interesting stuff there. For example:

“Luke] made a huge mistake in thinking that his nephew was the chosen one, so he invested everything he had in Kylo, much like Obi-Wan did with my character,” Hamill says. “And he is betrayed, with tragic consequences. Luke feels responsible for that. That’s the primary obstacle he has to rejoining the world and his place in the Jedi hierarchy, you know? It’s that guilt, that feeling that it’s his fault, that he didn’t detect the darkness in him until it was too late.”

Well, there's something I never would have guessed... Luke thinking Ben was the Chosen One. Hmmm what the heck.
@Darth Dingbat

That's interesting because, if I recall, wasn't there a line from the last season of Rebels that implied that Obi-Wan thought that Luke was the "chosen one" after Anakin's fall?

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by EchoBase on Wed 9 Aug - 12:52

"Even the murderous Kylo Ren became fascinated by her strength and resilience after kidnapping her."

YOU DON'T SAY?
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